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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
New Video of Suspect Moments Before Massacre; Church Massacre Suspect On Way To South Carolina To Face Charges; Obama Expresses Anger Over Church Shooting. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired June 18, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:14] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. Stunning new video of the suspect in the Charleston Church massacre sitting in a bible class moments before opening fire and allegedly killing nine innocent people.
Plus, the suspect 21-year-old Dylann Roof at this moment under arrest in flight to South Carolina where he will face charges. That flight will land at any moment. We're going to bring that to you live. The question, will he face the death penalty?
And breaking news at a New York manhunt for two convicted killers. What happened just before the female prison worker got cold feet and ruin their getaway plan? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news in the Charleston Church massacre. The suspected gunman in the mass shooting of nine people attending bible study at an historic black church is in the air at this instance flying South Carolina to face charges. Literally, he's going to be landing sometime in the next five, six minutes. We're going to show that to you. Captured though on the run in North Carolina, 21-year-old Dylann Roof will be on the ground shortly to be charged. This video, which is just in to CNN, shows Roof in prison stripes, heavily shackled, boarding a small plane for that flight back to Charleston.
Also, just in to CNN at this moment, chilling images of the suspect sitting with church members during their bible study class. Moments before he allegedly stood up, shooting and killing nine of the 12 people in the room. Eight people died on the scene. The ninth, a short time later at the hospital. Witnesses telling police that Roof said he was in the church to shoot black people and that he told one of the two adult survivors he was sparing her life just so she could tell everyone the story of what happened. Roof then fled, he was on the run for 14 hours, before police found him. After the arrest, President Obama saying he felt both grief and anger. He had a deeply personal message for the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: The fact that this took place in a black church obviously also raises questions about a dark part of our history. This is not the first time that black churches have been attacked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Martin Savidge begins our coverage OUTFRONT tonight in Charleston. And Martin, Roof expected to arrive at any moment now. You are learning more about the massacre.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. He's going to be here with an estimate, about an hour flight. So, if he's not on the ground already, he's going to be arriving very shortly. Remarkably, almost 24 hours after this whole terrible saga began here in this community. And this was a person that many people say they had no clue of what he was going to do. He is captured up in North Carolina. And police are thankful but at least no more people died in that process.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you feeling?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you do it?
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Twenty one-year-old Dylann Roof draped in a bullet proof vest, hands capped behind his back under arrest. The prime suspect in a horrific mass shooting. The horror unfolded just the night before. Surveillance cameras captured these images of him entering Emanuel AME Church chillingly rough as said to have taken his time spending an hour in the churches bible studies. Then around 9:00, Roof allegedly stands up. He announces he is there to shoot black people. And he does. Opening fire, killing nine people, six women and three men.
The oldest, an 87-year-old woman. All of them African-American. Just three people survived. A community leader spoke with the relatives of one of the survivors who told them the shooter let her live.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Her life was spared because the shooter said, I am not going to shoot you. I'm not going to -- I'm going to let you go because I want you to be able to tell them what happened."
SAVIDGE: As police and first responders closed out the scene, the shooter made his escape, on the loose overnight. The subject of a massive manhunt. Police issue the call to be on the lookout for a black Sudan, a confederate flag, on the front license plate.
10:32 this morning, less than 14 hours after the deadly shooting, someone phones police they have spotted a person they think is the suspect. 10:44, a police officer pulls over Roof's car in Shelby, North Carolina, about 250 miles north of Charleston. He has a handgun but surrenders without incident. Roof turned 21 in April. For his birthday, his father reportedly gave him a gun. Shortly after the arrest, a visibly moved President Obama spoke of his heartache, sadness and anger. He knew one of the victims, the church pastor. And he said it's time for America to come to grips with gun violence.
OBAMA: Now is the time for mourning and for healing. But let's be clear. At some point we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.
[19:05:15] SAVIDGE: With a suspect in custody, Charleston residents were left with little to do but come together in grief.
SAVIDGE: And that grief is so palpable tonight, Erin. There are many people who continue to be drawn to the church where this horror played out. As for Roof, he is expected to be transported at the county jail overnight there. And then, there will be a bond hearing. It is possible we would see him then. But that is likely to be done over a video link -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Martin Savidge, thank you.
And we do have exclusive new footage tonight of Dylann Roof moments before he opened fire inside Emanuel AME Church. And, you know, it's worth emphasizing here something that in all of this, which is impossible to understand, is truly impossible to understand, that he sat with these people for an hour telling them he wanted to be part of their bible group, convincing them of that. Before he actually killed the people that he had ostensibly just had a personal connection with.
Our Don Lemon obtained the exclusive video. You know, Don, and one of those pictures, you know, you see the pastor that he'd been murdered briefly right after that. Sitting there smiling. You see them, they're are downstairs in the church. Right? They are not in pews. They are down having this intimate special meeting.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And, you know, you took the words out of my mouth. This is chilling to see how this man ingratiated himself into the congregation, members of that church. And now, I wanted to be clear about this. This is from the snapshot feed of one of the victims here, Tawanza Sanders, who is the college graduate who was there. And he is also taking part of a bible study. Recent college graduate of Allen University in Columbia, South Carolina.
So, when you look at the pictures of the pastors, we think it could be either the pastor -- Pastor Clementa Pinckney or it could be Pastor Darrell Simmons, Sr., it's hard to tell from the pictures. Both of them were leading and taking part in the bible study. Of course, Pinckney is the pastor of the church. And then the other picture which is really eerie, Erin. You can see the suspect there Dylann Roof in that sweatshirt sitting at the edge of the table just moments before he went on a rampage and slaughtered nine people in this terroristic act.
And now Erin, I want to play the video so that you and then all of our viewers can hear it. And you and I can talk about it. This is the video from the snapshot. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to talk more --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I want to talk a little bit of --
UNIDENTIFIED FMALE: Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Want to talk a little bit more about --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just want to talk --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Erin, just a normal bible study where they are trying to tell the people, talk about what's in the bible, what's going on. They are trying to get him to learn about God. And instead, he is planning this really satanistic hellish act unbeknownst to them. And as I've been saying all day, they were trying to learn about God, the bible, going to heaven one day, helping their fellowmen when all along the devil was right there with them.
BURNETT: All right. Don, thank you very much. There is something about that video, and you just see people so trustingly talking about something so important to their faith and someone sitting there about to murder them. Of course, the man who posted that video was murdered and killed. An innocent student who just graduated, he was among those murdered.
Well, with each passing hour, we are learning new and ever more disturbing details about the suspected gunman Dylann Roof. Police say, he has been arrested multiple times. According to a school record, he jumped to school to school growing up. One official at a school calling him, quote, "very transient."
OUTFRONT now, Brian Todd. And Brian, I know you had a chance just moments ago to speak to someone who actually went to high school with Roof as people try to understand what could motivate someone to do something so horrific, to be filled with such hatred and to want to kill black people as he said. Did this friend fill you in at all on what motivated him?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He did a little bit, Erin. He talked to us about his experience with Dylann Roof here in High School at Lexington, this is White Knoll High School behind me. This is where Dylann Roof went to ninth grade where officials here had told us he had to repeat the ninth grade. And then he went for about half a year after that and then he went to another high school Dreher High School to finish out the ninth grade where I read right after that. And in about 2010, in the spring of 2010. The gentleman I spoke to John Mullins went to high school with Dylann Roof here at White Knoll High School in the ninth grade. And I asked him a key question about any racist tendencies that he might have had at that time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MULLINS, HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATE OF DYLAN ROOF: He said some like jokes before. But they weren't too serious. I didn't think of them as serious.
TODD: What kind of jokes?
MULLINS: I'm not really going to say them. But they were just racist slurs in a sense. I don't know. You say it like -- just as a joke. I don't know how to explain it. But I never took it seriously. But now as he showed his other side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:29] TODD: John Mullins told me that now he thinks he should have taken those jokes more seriously. Mullins said, he is quote, "sick and devastated about the shootings in Charleston." Also tonight, Erin, we have a little bit more information about Dylann Roof's arrest record. This is according to officials in this area and court records. He was arrested back in February in a South Carolina mall not far from here. When employees at a bath and body works complained of a white male dressed all black asking, quote, "out of the ordinary questions" about who the associates were who were working at the store and when they were leaving.
He was arrested then by a police officer who said that he took illegal drugs from him, drugs that were used to treat addictions. Two months later, Dylan Roof was arrested again for trespassing at that same mall. He was ignoring an order that -- a ban that was placed upon him to avoid that same mall he was arrested for violating that ban just in April. We mentioned the schools that he bounced around in here and elsewhere. He has obviously a checkered past here in the Columbia, South Carolina, area. Learning more tonight from family and friends hopefully later on -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Brian Todd.
OUTFRONT now, James Fitzgerald, a former FBI profiler.
James, you know, for some reason that image that Don was just talking about, the pastor sitting there relaxed. They are downstairs at the church. They are having this conversation. You see the pastor there talking about the bible. That this is -- I don't know. It's somehow a naked moment of people just being themselves. This guy sat through this meeting with these 13 people. He convinced them that he wanted to study the bible. He lied to them for an hour plotting their murder. And then killed them all. What does that say about him that he would sit there for an hour and then kill them?
JAMES FITZGERALD, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, it was bible study for the dozen or so victims killed and injured. It was victim study for this guy for Roof. He was getting target acquisition, determining who would be the first ones to take out. Who would be strongest, the strongest, the ones to resist and then finish the rest of the group as time permitted. I know of course he left one person there. At least one person alive to tell his story. But what we essentially have here is him hiding in plain sight. He is play acting this role that he has probably rehearsed a number of times in his head.
Because I have a feeling, there was some level of surveillance or some sort of research knowing that this particular bible study would take place in this particular church, a historic church, a 160 years old. And it wasn't necessarily by coincidence that this is what and when he chose to do it. But he was there not to learn anything about the bible. What he was hearing from Pastor Pinckney would go in one ear, spin around his distorted synapsis and come out the other and made no sense he was figuring out who he's going to take out first.
BURNETT: And why do you think, you know, obviously the reports are, you know, and we have spoken to people, spoken to the family member who said that one of the survivors said that he said, "I'm going to let you leave." There's two adults survivors. "I'm going to let you live so you can tell everyone what happened." With those two adults survivors and one child, we understand, a five-year-old. Why would he do that? Why planning all that would he then allow three people to survive?
FITZGERALD: Well, remember, Cho with Virginia Tech, he had mailed videotapes to various media outlets. The unabomer wrote his manifesto. This guy perhaps doesn't have that skill set. We'll find out more about him. He also may have mailed things or wrote something, letters to someone. But he figured in his particular case, his interactive skills perhaps were best related by a few things he said as he was shooting and emptying and changing his magazines. And he figured on one person, for one reason only. Somehow she may have said something, looked a certain way like somebody he knew from his past, and he chose her randomly to say, "You will live and tell my story." So, there's a message to be told here that this guy wanted to get out as crazy and perturb as disturbing as it is. And he chose this person as his messenger. It's a strange paradox.
BURNETT: James, thank you.
And next, we are learning more about the nine people who lost their lives. The innocent people there to study the bible with their weekly group who were so horribly slaughtered last night. We will going to tell about you them.
And the alleged shooter caught on camera arrested within hours. How hard will it be to prosecute him? Plus, President Obama personal ties to the church. He knew the pastor and he today made a passionate call for change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I have had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:18:28] BURNETT: Breaking news in the Charleston Church massacre. At this hour, the suspected gunman 21-year-old Dylann Roof flying back to South Carolina to face charges for shooting nine people at an historic black church. Witnesses say, he said he wanted to kill black people. And tonight, we are learning more about his victims, the innocent people murdered in the middle of a bible study class with their pastor and their friends.
Alina Machado is OUTFRONT.
("WE SHALL OVERCOME")
ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today in Charleston, hymns and organ music echo over a peaceful city left in a state of disbelief. Nine worshipers were killed here in cold blood as they prayed together last night. Murdered police say, just for being black.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm in my fourth year of pastoring here at the church.
MACHADO: Reverend Clementa Pinckney who also served as a state senator was silence along with six women and two other men at this historic black church. Survivors relayed horrifying details to Pinckney's family. His cousin told affiliate WIS, the killer was intent on his target.
SYLVIA JOHNSON, COUSIN OF REVEREND PINCKNEY: He asked for the pastor. Where is the pastor? He sat next to my cousin, Reverend Clementa Pinckney throughout the entire bible study.
MACHADO: Pinckney's empty desk in the State Capitol decorated in his honor. The 41-year-old father of two had been serving in South Carolina's legislature for nearly two decades.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a sweet-loving man, a dedicated public servant to his community and also dedicated servant to his faith and his congregation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we could bow our heads for words of prayer.
MACHADO: Among those Pinckney led in prayer and joined in death was Myra Thompson, the wife of one of the church bishops. She was teaching bible study as she was shot. Fellow Pastor Sharonda Singleton was also killed. Her son posted heartbreaking messages to Twitter last night just as news of the tragedy broke. "Something extremely terrible has happened to my mom tonight. Please pray for her and my family. Pray ASAP." He posted but it was too late. The high school speech therapist and track coach had been gunned down. As prayers echoed in the aftermath, the victims included Tawanza Sanders seen here in his Facebook profile. He was a graduate of Allen University and a beloved local barber.
His shop posting this tribute to their Facebook page today. Cynthia Hurd, a 31 year employee of the city's public library was also killed. The library is closed today and confirmed his death on his Facebook page, writing that Hurd, quote, "dedicated her life to serving and improving the lives of others." Service also the mantra for Reverend DePayne Middleton-Doctor. The 49-year-old mother of four worked at Southern Wesleyan University. His friends tell CNN, she lived for her faith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew without a shadow of a doubt.
MACHADO: What was that moment for you -- what was like for you to find out that somebody that is so dear to you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart dropped. It just dropped. My heard dropped. It fell in my feet.
MACHADO: Lives of service cut shockingly short in a city now singing to fill their silence.
MACHADO: The other victims confirmed by the colonel's offices afternoon, 70-year-old Ethel Lance, 87-year-old Susie Jackson and Reverend Daniel Simmons, Sr. who was 67-years-old. Now, tomorrow night the city of Charleston is expected to host a prayer vigil to honor the nine people who died -- Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you, Alina.
And OUTFRONT now, Charleston pastor and community organizer Thomas Dixon and Reverend Joseph Darby, the presiding elder of 32 AME churches in the Southern part of South Carolina. He is a close friend of Pastor Clementa Pinckney who is killed in the attack. And for those here who are learning more tonight, AME is an African Methodist Episcopal Church.
Reverend Darby, you knew Pastor Pinckney, he knew him since he was a boy, a teenager. An incredible man from everything we have heard, a pillar of the community, the center of that church. What do you want us to know about your friend?
REVEREND JOSEPH DARBY, CLOSE FRIEND OF SLAIN PASTOR: He was a quintessential pastor. He was not just someone who went into ministry by mistake. He was active in his church. He managed to do that and balance his role as a public servant. He was determined to improve the lot of his congregation and his Senate district. He was as good as they come.
[19:23:08] BURNETT: And Pastor Dixon, no one can understand the horrific shooting that someone would do this, that someone would go in and ingratiate themselves for an hour into that meeting in that community. And then murder these people in cold blood, these innocent people. How important is this church -- obviously, this church itself is very significant as an individual church, but churches like this, the African Methodist Episcopal Churches, how important are they to the community?
THOMAS DIXON, PASTOR AND COMMUNITY ORGANIZER: The church in the aftermath, just has been a main stay. It's a place where their community goes together. It's a right place where the community worships together, where they get to know one another. Where that unity that's supposed to be in the community is fostered under their leadership and guidance of a pastor. Someone who is just that, a director of the flock.
BURNETT: And Pastor Darby, I mean, now that this unbelievable act has happened, you are the elder of 32 of this AME churches. They are traditionally open to the community, also to the public. You know, in this church I know people would come through and they would sit. They could be a part of things if they were a tourist. Are you worried now? Should these churches now be locking their doors and changing?
DARBY: No. Churches should take appropriate precautions for security. But it is antithetical to the role of the church to have a church with locked doors. We have to make ourselves available and pray God's peace and protection.
BURNETT: Powerful statement. And Pastor Dixon, the alleged shooter, we know he is racist. We know he is now accused of murdering nine people in cold blood. Should he also be considered a terrorist, that word?
DIXON: I would say so. I would say so. By definition, because I think one of his main purposes in doing this was to instill fear not only in those that he encountered in the church, because his main goal in the church was to eliminate the people in the church. But I think he had a far reaching method because he stopped and told one of the young women there, one of the women there -- I'm not going to kill you in order for you to take this message further. Why would he want that message taken further? The only reason I can figure out is that it would impress in the minds of others that, you know, this could happen to you.
BURNETT: Pastor Dixon --
DIXON: Which is terrorism by essence.
BURNETT: By that definition, absolutely. What would you say, Reverend Darby, do you agree? Terrorism?
DARBY: I believe it's terrorism. It's the same kind of terrorism that has been visited upon African-Americans not only in the south but in America since the founding of this nation. It's less frequent now. It's sometimes more rhetorically nuanced. But terrorism is terrorism.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. Terrorism is terrorism, you heard it from Pastor Dixon and Reverend Darby. And I appreciate both of your time very much tonight. My condolences.
And next, an angry and emotional President Obama talking about race, about being black and gun violence in America.
And breaking news in the New York manhunt for two convicted killers. Tonight, we speak to a top official leading the hunt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:30:16] BURNETT: Breaking news: church shooting suspect
Dylann Roof on his way back to South Carolina to face charges. He was captured about 250 miles away from where he allegedly killed nine people at the historically black Emanuel AME Church in Charleston.
Now, this is personal for President Obama. He knew one of the victims, the pastor. And he voiced his anger today, calling the deaths "senseless murders".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. We don't have all the facts, but we do know that once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: President Obama has addressed gun violence at least 14 types in his presidency. He has called the failure by Congress to pass gun control measures after the Sandy Hook massacre of innocent children, his most disappointing moment.
Jim Acosta is OUTFRONT at White House.
And, Jim, it was personal for the president today. He knew the pastor. He was angry, but he was controlled. He was emotional. I mean, it was very powerful when he talked about race.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. This was personal for the president, Erin. And you're right, not only did he talk about the issue of control in stark terms. President Obama indeed took note that this church massacre in Charleston was an apparent act of racial violence. And while the president said investigators don't have all the facts, he said the mass shooting at Emanuel AME harkened back to some of the most horrific crimes of the civil rights era, including the 1963 bombings of the 16th Street Baptist in Birmingham, Alabama, that left four little girls dead.
The president also pointed to the significance of Emanuel AME, that in his words, this was a church that was, quote, "burned to the ground because its worshipers worked to end slavery."
Here's more of what the president had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The fact that this took place in a black church obviously also raises questions about a dark part of our history. This is not the first time that black churches have been attacked. And we know that hatred across races and faiths pose a particular threat to our democracy and our ideals. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Now, the president has had to grapple with the matters of race throughout his presidency, from the killing of Trayvon Martin, to Ferguson, and in recent months, we have noticed he has gotten more bold in offering his personal views on these issues. But, today, the president was trying to cool any tensions that might flare up after Charleston. He quoted Martin Luther King's words on that Birmingham church bombing back in 1963, saying, don't look at who murdered the victims, quote, "but look at the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced these murders."
Erin, I suspect, judging by the tone of the president's comments today, this is not the last we will hear from the president on this issue -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jim Acosta.
And OUTFRONT now, back with me, Charleston pastor and community organizer Thomas Dixon, along with Marc Lamont Hill, distinguished professor of African-American studies at Morehouse College.
All right. Thanks to both of you for being with us.
Now, let me start with you, Thomas, and I wanted to bring you back, because you were passionate on this issue of whether this was an act of terrorism. Certainly, an act of terror and racism. We were told the gunman said he was there to, quote, "shoot black people. You rape our women and you are taking over our country and you have to go." That's the quote that one of the survivors said he said in that room.
I mean, sir, can you believe that this happened in America, in Charleston, in 2015?
THOMAS DIXON, PASTOR AND COMMUNITY ORGANIZER: Yes. I have no problem believing that. This is a culture that has been bred for years. We saw it plainly when our current seated president, President Barack Obama, first ran for office. We have seen it consistently through his two terms of office.
If anybody that follows Facebook can any day turn to the nasty comments that are being made about our president, our commander in chief, and they are being made no matter what the excuses are simply because he is an African-American in office running this country.
Racism, the underlying thread of racism in our nation is not going anywhere. We are not in a post-racial world in America.
BURNETT: I think -- you know, powerfully put but something a lot of people don't realize. People think we have come a long way. There's a black man in the White House. That means that this country has changed.
Yet today, there was talk about something that I think might shock a lot of our viewers, the Confederate flag flying today, still flying at the state capital in South Carolina.
[19:35:01] MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The problem is for the last seven years and really the last 50 years we have been fighting this confederate flag battle. I don't want to fetishize the confederate flag and make that the reason why all these things are happening.
But it's a sign post of a mentality of people who always want to harken back to the good old days. Unfortunately, the good old days weren't so good for black people, for women, for poor people, for Jews. We can go down the list.
So, when you see a person like this guy who says, you're raping our women and you are taking over the country, that's the same narrative that KKK used a hundred years ago.
BURNETT: Raping our women, you feel like it's a flash back to the 1950s.
HILL: It's right out of birth of a nation. It's exact same narrative. It's always been the narrative. So, for that reason, this is extremely disturbing.
But we might be foolish to dismiss this as an isolated case of one crazy guy, which is what be like to do oftentimes when they say that. Instead, we need to say, this is part of a network of domestic terrorism.
BURNETT: And let me ask you, pastor, you know, the president of the NAACP in Charleston, Dot Scott, spoke to OUTFRONT today and she said she thinks racism has gotten worst since the election of President Obama. I mean, it's a hard thing to say. And yet, a poll this year showed 40 percent of Americans agree. They think race relations have gotten worse since President Obama took office.
You remember when he took office, in May that he took office, four months in, totally different view. There was so much hope. Only 6 percent said that.
What do you think happened?
DIXON: I believe the reality of the black man in America was placed in front of white America's face. They could no longer be covered or kept in the closet. The concept of I believe in white privilege would manifest itself against the fact that there was now an African-American president.
And more people -- the more that this happened with the Tea Party movement, the attacks by the Republicans and conservatives against our president, the more it opened up the door for those who were more or less afraid or skeptical about speaking on these issues to feel more freedom and latitude in presenting the way that they truly felt. Now we see the end result of that.
BURNETT: And, Marc, I guess the bottom line is, could this be a watershed moment? I feel like we've asked this many times before in recent months.
HILL: We're always looking for the watershed moment.
BURNETT: But nothing ever is a watershed moment.
HILL: No, but we are always looking for the moment, i.e., we're looking for the moment where we have this grand racial turn where everything gets better. We said it with Trayvon, we said it with Eric Garner, we said it with Michael Brown. We said it back with O.J. We said it with Rodney King. We say it all the time.
But the problem is, we can't eliminate these types of incidents if we don't get at the source of the problem. The source isn't individual crazy people. The source of this is white supremacy. Until we address white supremacy as a structural thing, as an ideology and as a cultural practice, we're going to continue to have these types of circumstances.
BURNETT: Thanks very much to both of you.
And next, the shooting suspect with what looks like a wealth of evidence against him. What will be his defense? And will he face death or not? The big question.
And we have breaking news on the New York manhunt for the two convicted killers. The sheriff leading the hunt will be OUTFRONT.
We'll be right back.
[19:42:04] BURNETT: Breaking news: Church massacre suspect Dylann Roof right now on his way back to South Carolina. He is accused of killing nine people there at a bible study group, an historic church. Authorities found him today. He fled 250 miles to a small town in North Carolina.
And here is a picture of roof when he was caught and surrendered to police. You can see him. He is looking directly at the camera. It seems like he has a sort of a self-satisfied look on his face or smirk. At least that's the appearance of it.
So, is he going to jail for the rest of his life or face death?
OUTFRONT now, Jeffrey Toobin.
And, Jeff, let me put the question straight to you, death penalty?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Death penalty for an absolute certainty. The prosecutors will ask for one. What a jury will do, I don't know.
But South Carolina is a death penalty state. They not only charge people with death penalty, they actually do execute people, unlike California which has the death penalty but doesn't execute people.
TOOBIN: This is the definition of a death penalty case.
BURNETT: So, his lawyers I'm sure will try to say this issue we're hearing about, may be there was a drug issue, there was insanity. There was something. They'll try to go for that.
Is there any chance that that would work? I mean, because again, I come back to the most chilling part, which is that he sat with 13 people in a very imminent, casual setting for an hour before he killed them.
TOOBIN: Look, it's hard to imagine a more horrifying crime. But in the way that the death penalty cases sometimes work, the worse it is the better it can be.
Why would someone do this the argument will go if they weren't mentally detective? How could someone sit for an hour who was in any sense sane and then do this?
So, I mean, that's the argument you can make. Does it usually work? No. It might -- it almost certainly would not work for the guilt phase. You know, possibly you could get one juror which -- who would say, you know, there was some sort of mental defect here. He wasn't fully in control.
BURNETT: You need unanimity in South Carolina for death --
TOOBIN: In every state, yes.
BURNETT: In very state, yes.
OK. So, now, obviously, the crime here merits the death penalty. So, they're going to go for that, as you should, absolutely. People care as to whether this is labeled a hate crime. It may not result in more of a punishment, but they care deeply about it. What would having this labeled a hate crime do to the punishment?
TOOBIN: Frankly, nothing. South Carolina is one of the few states that does not have a hate crime law. So, the only --
BURNETT: They can't come in with federal charges on that?
TOOBIN: They could. But there's no federal death penalty for hate crimes.
And the practice almost always is for the federal government to defer to a state in a straight-up homicide case like this. So, obviously, all of us have an emotional reaction. This was a racist crime. This was the definition of a crime based on race, or so it seems.
[19:45:02] But in terms of the actual prosecution, it's unlikely to be prosecuted that way. BURNETT: All right. Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much. It
will upset a lot of people. But interesting, as you said, they will absolutely go for death.
OUTFRONT next, breaking news on the New York manhunt. What the female prison worker Joyce Mitchell was doing the night of the escape, and we're going to be speaking to the sheriff, one of the people in charge of the hunt with the breaking news after this.
And it is one of the oldest black churches of the South, the giant of civil rights spoke there. That is the church where this horrific act happened, the scene of a deadly shooting. But what this church stands for and what has happened in there is a story you must hear. Our report, coming up.
BURNETT: Breaking news in the manhunt for two escaped prisoners. Tonight, the U.S. Marshal Service added David Sweat and Richard Matt to the 15 most wanted fugitive's list, a list said to be reserved for the worst of the worst.
We're also learning new details about the night they went missing. The attorney for Lyle Mitchell, whose wife Joyce is accused of helping the inmates escape, is speaking out for first time about why Joyce abandoned the escape plan and he spoke to our Alexandra Field.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:50:00] PETER DUMAS, ATTORNEY FOR LYLE MITCHELL: She's still willing to help them out. They have a plan to do harm to Lyle. She doesn't agree with that. She doesn't want Lyle hurt.
They start threatening her, saying, you know, we're going to have someone hurt him anyway. We're going to have someone hurt him in the facility, or we're going to have someone go to the house and hurt him, you've got to help us out.
It gets to the day of the escape, and she starts feeling chest pains in the car with Lyle. They get done work, they're driving home, they stop and have Chinese food on the way home, from the Chinese food restaurant here in Malone, back to St. Regis Falls. She says she's starting to feel chest pains, her face is getting flush, Lyle decides that she has to go to the hospital. He brings her to the hospital.
At that point, he doesn't know she's involved in this whole plot. He doesn't know about the escape at that point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT tonight, Clinton County sheriff David Favro.
And, Sheriff, thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate your time tonight. You just heard Lyle Mitchell's attorney talking our Alex Field about Joyce Mitchell abandoning the escape plan. I know you said, you thought she was actually the inmates' plan B.
What do you think their plan A was, sir?
SHERIFF DAVID FAVRO, CLINTON COUNTY, NEW YORK: It's easy to theorize what may or may not happen, especially when this all comes to closure, you're going to have a lot of people out there that say, I knew that's what was going to happen. But right now, very difficult, one would have to imagine that with this methodical of a plan, as detailed as it was, and as time-consuming as it was, that there had to be something a little more well thought out than just hoping she would show up and not have car trouble or anything else that could have occurred even if she had not gotten cold feet. You would think they'd have something much better than that set up.
BURNETT: And when you say much better than that, I mean, it's 13 days and I know officials say there's no evidence they left the area. But, of course, there's no evidence that they're still in the area, because they haven't been found. They're now alerting the Canadian border, the Mexican border.
Do you think it's possible they may have escaped the net? They may truly be gone?
FAVRO: Again, anything is possible. Getting the U.S. Marshals involved in this and having them put their national network system in a place they think is going a plan, I think that's going to be helpful.
Again, no matter what the outcome, no matter when the outcome, we're going to have the eyes and the ears are going to play a key role in this. The state police have received thousands of leads. They've been following up and working very hard behind the scenes. There's countless resources that are still here in the community, although we don't see them lining the roads directly behind me like we did a few days ago, they're out there patrolling all over in groups.
Our department are in groups, the forest rangers, the border patrol are still out doing broad range patrols, checking on other areas, checking on areas, checking on other homes, in hopes that we can run into these guys and take them into custody.
BURNETT: All right. Sheriff, we're rooting for you to do just that. I appreciate your time, sir. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you.
And OUTFRONT next, breaking news in the Charleston massacre story, the suspect now in police custody, has landed in South Carolina, facing charges. This is the mugshot taken moments ago. We're going to give you the full details on what we know about that landing going into detention. We'll be right back.
[19:57:28] BURNETT: Breaking news on the Charleston church massacre. Shooting suspect Dylann Roof has just landed back in Charleston. He is now at the detention center. This is his mug shot taken just moments ago. This is first look at his mugshot, this is after he fled, was caught, got on that plane. This is I said just moments ago in Charleston.
Roof allegedly saying he came to shoot black people before he opened fire, slaughtering nine at an historic African-American church. It is the oldest black church in the South and has been the headquarters for civil rights activities for decades. The story of this church is an incredible one and Tom Foreman has it, OUTFRONT.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Located less than a mile from Charleston's historic slave market and established in 1816, deep in the slavery years, Emanuel has always been more than a place of worship. As the oldest African Methodist Episcopal Church in the South, it's a living testament to the trials of black America.
Here, one of the church founders tried to organize a slave rebellion almost 200 years ago, only to see the church burned to the ground when it was discovered more than 300 alleged plotters were arrested, 35 were executed. Here, runaway slaves were secretly helped in their perilous journey north.
Here, Martin Luther King Jr. invited new generations to march for equality even as white supremacists were still hoisting their own crosses. Through it all, Emanuel has been a leading force for AME churches and outspoken leaders.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: People like Frederick Douglass and Harriett Tubman and Rosa Parks belonged to it. And the AME Church is always about human rights and civil rights.
ALTON POLLARD III, DEAN, HOWARD UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF DIVINITY: The black church has always been our freedom house.
FOREMAN: Alton Pollard is dean at the Howard University School of Divinity. And he says Emanuel led the way for so many black churches by being a place where African-American politicians, leaders, organizers, teachers and more could find acceptance when they were barred from so much of America.
POLLARD: You know that you will come there unfiltered. You will come there without recrimination made against you. So, no matter the disparages of the largest social order, you come here and you can learn how to be as fully human as you are.
FOREMAN (on camera): That's what Emanuel meant to people?
POLLARD: Yes, yes, absolutely. And part that means the affirming of every single person who comes inside our door and those who are within the communities around us.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
BURNETT: As I said, an incredible story.
And our breaking news coverage of the massacre in Charleston continues right now with Anderson.