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WBTV: Admitted Killer Had Targeted And Researched Church. Aired 9:00-10:00p ET.

Aired June 19, 2015 - 21:00   ET




ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to the second hours of 360. We are live here in Charleston, South Carolina, a community that continuous to show extraordinary strength and grace, amazing grace in the shadow of a measurable sorrow.

This is the scene right now outside of the Mother Emanuel Church, hundreds of people have gathered. There are songs, there are clapping, people are bringing flowers, they're bringing teddy bears, they're bringing notes and they have been throughout the day but now the darkness is come. People are still here, still coming to show their support.

There was a huge turnout at a prayer vigil not far from her at the College of Charleston. It was held a packed arena for songs and prayers for the nine people who are murdered, and for their families.

There was a lot more to cover in the hour ahead. New details in the church massacre investigation including disturbing revelations about the confessed killer and how long, how long he may have been planning the attack, and if others knew about it and had hints about it.

He made his first court appearance today my closed-circuit television, some of the victims loved ones were inside the courtroom. Survivor was inside the courtroom during the bond hearing. And they were given an opportunity to address the killer and some of them did.

It was, I mean, an extraordinary display of grace. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are representing the family of Ethel Lance, is that correct?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I just wanted everybody to know, to you, I forgive you. You took something very precious from me. I will never talk to her ever again. I will never be able to hold her again. But I forgive you. And have mercy on your soul. You hurt me. You hurt a lot of people. But God forgive you. And I forgive you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Representative of the Myra Thompson. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say the same thing that was just said.

[21:05:00] You know, I forgive you and my family forgive you, but we would like to take this opportunity to repent. Repent, confess. Give your life to the one who matters the most, Christ. So that he can change it, can change your ways no matter what happened to you and you'll be OK. Do that and you'll be better off than what you are right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Tywanza Sanders.

FELICIA SANDERS, THE MOTHER OF TYWANZA SANDERS: We welcomed you Wednesday night in our bible study with open arms. You have killed some of the most prettifullest people that I know. Every fiber in my body hurts. And I'll never be the same Tywanza Sanders was son but Tywanza was my hero. But as we said at bible stud, we enjoyed you. But may God have mercy on you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Representative of Daniel Simmons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of hate, this is proof everyone's plea for your soul is proof that they, they, lived and loved, and their legacies will live and love. So hate won't win and I just want to thank the court for making sure that hate doesn't win.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, ma'am, for being here. A representative of the Cynthia Hurd.

BETHANE MIDDLETON BROWN, REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CYNTHIA HURD: I would like to thank you on the behalf of my family for not allowing hate to win. For me, I'm a work in progress, and I acknowledge that I'm very angry. But one thing DePayne has always joined in our family with is the, she taught me that we are the family that love built. We have no room for hate so we have to forgive. I pray God on your soul and I also thank God that I won't around when your judgment day come with him. May God bless you.


COOPER: Well, the hearing also hid an awkward and controversial know that judge made kind of a left turn that few saw coming. Listen.


CHARLESTON CHIEF MAGISTRATE, JAMES B. GOSNELL: Charleston is a very strong community. We have big hearts. We're a very loving community. And we are going to reach out everyone, all victims, and we will touch them. We have victims, nine of them, but also have victims on the other side. There are victims on this young man side of the family. Nobody would have never thrown them into the world (inaudible) of event that they have been thrown into. We must find in our heart that some point in time, not to help those that are victims but to also help his family as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Joining me now is CNN Legal Analyst Sunny Hostin, also Mark Geragos is transition joining us, also Reverend George McKain, the National Director of Public Affairs for AME Zion Church, also a former Pastor in Charleston. He lost friends in the attack two nights ago.

Revered, thank you so much for being here.


COOPER: I want to talk to you about the outpouring of faith you have seen. I'm wondering if you were surprised by the judge's comments.

MCKAIN: I was very surprised but the judge's comments. Very surprised I guess is the safest thing to say. It was out of the (inaudible) anything should be expected -- in the court right, and even for his personal thing, feelings to be shared at that time was most in approbate way.

COOPER: To see the crowds that have been coming out here, I mean, if this young man, and I don't use his name, if this young man wanted to start a war, a race war in this country, it seems at least for now he has brought a lot of people together. Do you think that's true?

MCKAIN: I think God who's brought a lot of people together. I think cause and response, two different things. He may have been brought up the cause but our response is really brought the people together. God (inaudible) here, in Charleston, it's different from anywhere in the world. I'm a native of New Jersey, then (inaudible) Charleston. '87, I've experience live and community that is higher and different level. And so our response here tonight is, I guess, the example of setting the tone that this is how America response when we have crisis.

[21:10:00] And I think as you see black, white, Baptist, catholic, it's not about denomination, it's not about what side of town, it's not about the economic of the social strata. It's about the need to respond for one another in this moment and we will be united.

COOPER: To hear family members, when talked to a number of them, they talked about forgiveness. I mean, there is faith and there is strong faith, but that is an incredible thing two days after you have lost your mother, your sister to talk -- to face the person who did it and say, "I can forgive you."

MCKAIN: The strap (ph) of what they said today is when we heard it, but I'm sure that they felt the same way as much as I've heard moments later. They -- when you talk about the commandments, "Thou shall not kill. I'm talking about the second tablet of the commandments, the first ordeal with our relationship with the God, the last six it was our relationship with one another and we have taught to forgive.

We are expression of forgiveness. Romans 3:23, "All have sinned" regardless of what it", you know, some may have lied, some may have stolen, some killed, but all have sinned when it come to glory. We know what forgiveness is. That's what we seek the Lord for, daily. COOPER: Mark Geragos, were you surprise to hear the judge early on. And I mean, in this remarks, yes, he referenced the nine victims but to hear him so quickly referenced the family of this killer.

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Look, there -- it's almost inexplicable. You -- as somebody who has practiced criminal defense for decades, I see first hand, yes, the family of the people that you defend, the family of the accuse are victims. But for the judge to say it in a case like this, from the get-go is obviously inappropriate.

And, you know, I talked about this off the air with Sunny, if he knew that family and have, you know, some heartfelt reaction about that, then he shouldn't been in here in this case, he shouldn't have accused himself.

The other thing I would tell you that I've never seen and maybe they do it at bond hearing there but I've never seen expressions of forgiveness, and that kind of forgiveness at a bond hearing -- by the way, where this judge had no authority to grant bond. He granted bond for one million but that was for the firearm charge.

He has no authority to grant bonds on the murder case. So this to some degree was just kind of Kabuki theater for the media and you got mostly when you saw that picture that they did the video arraignment where he standing there, the accuse, and he's got the two cops behind him behind with the flak jackets on. The whole thing was kind of surreal but you do have to take your hats off.

I have sat through, I can't tell you, countless of what we called this victim impact statements. I've never seen ever this line up of victims especially disclose to the event...


GERAGOS: . with that amount of forgiveness. It's shocking.

COOPER: And Sunny, we know the Department of Justice is looking into this mass killing both as a hate crime, and a domestic act of terrorism, an act of domestic terrorism. Does the federal case, does that really matter? I mean, the South Carolina is a death penalty state if how does -- who takes part -- the state takes priority, correct?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think the state will take priority and I think the federal government knows, if people of Charleston, the people of South Carolina need to have their justice and so the federal government will certainly take a back seat to this. But it is very important to note that the federal government is going to be working side by side with state investigator. So they are bringing to bear all of the resources of the federal government including the FBI, Federal Marshalls, really the best of the best.

And I think what's also very important here is that, now we are howling this kind of act, this kind of hatred and racism domestic terrorism by any account. We're talking about someone choosing to try to intimidate a group of people and...

COOPER: And create a race war...

HOSTIN: ... in this African-Americans -- Exactly. And shooting a public official and choosing this beautiful church which has always been a sign, historic sigh of...n


HOSTIN: ... African-American faith, and community, and social activism...

MCKAIN: Right.

HOSTIN: ... that choice I think certainly makes an act of domestic terrorism and we do need to start looking at these cases like that. So this is a watershed moment in my view of the federal government arm in terms of calling it domestic terrorism.

COOPER: Reverend McKain, It's really an honor to meet you. I'm sorry for under circumstances but thank you for being with us.

MCKAIN: Thank you very much, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, powerful words tonight. Sunny Hostin as well Mark Geragos as well.

Just ahead, we do have new details about what is killer was doing and saying in the weeks and days before the massacre. One of his friends is speaking about -- speaking out tonight about why he regrets not taking some of the killer's comments seriously. And you're going to ask that question as well, why didn't he pick up her phone and call police? Details ahead.



COOPER: Welcome back. We are live from Charleston, South Carolina where, today, the confessed killer who murdered nine people in the church behind me, Mother Emanuel Church, made his first court appearance in the last 24 hours. And we've learned a lot more about the attacking events leading up to it.

We learned for instance the a friend of the killer was worried enough that he took a gun away from him and now he regrets giving it back. Here is what Joey Meek, his roommate told CNN's Brian Todd.


JOEY MEEK, FRIEND OF SHOOTER: I took his gun and I hid it. And the next morning, I didn't want to get in trouble on him and say I stole his gun, so I put his gun back in his trunk.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How do you feel about that now? MEEK: Terrible. I mean, terrible, but then again I can't go back because I was looking out for myself really because I didn't want to get in trouble for stealing a gun.


COOPER: And again, the message of that is if you see something who have some questions about somebody in your life, you got to say something to somebody in law enforcement.

Joining me now, Drew Griffin as well as Brian Todd.

Drew, today we did get a fuller picture, a fuller picture about the shooter's behavior while in police custody. What he told police? What have you learned?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: We know that when he was picked by the Shelby North Carolina police and taken to that police station in North Carolina, he was put into a room where the FBI first questioned him and then the Charleston police detectives questioned him. That entire conversation or conversations were video taped and audio taped. And according to our CNN affiliate WBTV in Charlotte, the shooter was speaking very freely, apparently admitting that he had done some research and specifically targeted the Emanuel AME Church because of its African-American history in relevance within the community there.

He also said that when he was going into the church, he had hid his Glock gun, his pistol, in that pouch. And you can see that pouch that he is wearing in the surveillance photo that has been handed out by the police, and also admitted, supposedly, to having seven clips of ammunition.

[21:20:00] If they were full and for that gun that would be around 91 rounds of ammunitions that he went in there with. Again, he said that while in side the church he thought about actually not shooting anybody, then had second thoughts about that and decided to go ahead with it.

And Anderson, according to this WBTV report, he was surprised, he got away. And he never thought he'd get out of Charleston. When he did get out of Charleston, he decided to drive to Nashville, reportedly, because he says, "I'd never been to Nashville." Anderson?

COOPER: And thought about not shooting people because they had been so nice to him. And yet nevertheless, despite them welcoming him in, embracing him into the bosom of the church on that night, he took out that gun and killed people.

Brian, you spoke as we're just showed to his friend early what other details that he gave you about this guy?

TODD: Joey Meek said, on this night, recently, when the shooter talked about wanting to start a race war and wanting segregation, that he had really had a lot to drink that he had a liter of vodka which is an extraordinary amount of vodka for anybody, but for someone of a small stature as this shooter from the physical descriptions of him, that's an astounding amount of vodka.

But he said, when he have that vodka, he started talking about a race war and that's the point where he decided to take his gun from him and just hide it somewhere.

A few hours later, Joey Meek said that he didn't want to be accused or caught having stolen a gun from someone. So he put it back in the shooter's trunk and he feels terrible about that.

He also said that the shooter had a six-month plan to do "something crazy". He didn't know details of what that plan entail but it does indicate, Anderson, that the shooter may have had some kind of a plan to do something extreme for quite sometime.

COOPER: You know, a lot of that missed opportunities if you know somebody has a -- since he have a six-month plan to do something crazy and he have a gun, you would think someone who pick up a phone. Drew, I know you spokes at the pastor for the shooter's family earlier.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. The family had had a couple of meetings today and there was a gathering this morning at the shooter's sister's house. The pastor, actually the reverend from the church behind me, St. Paul's Lutheran here in Columbia, his name is Tony Metze (ph), came out and gave us really the first statement or glimpse that we got from what this family, the shooter's family is feeling, here is what he had to say.


PASTOR TONY METZE, ST. PAUL'S LUTHERAN CHURCH: What they've asked and what I asked is that, we continue to hold all these families in our prayers. And that the whole world, our nation, Charleston, our community, understand that we love them, God loves them and we want the best and we want to continue to hold these people in our prayers.


GRIFFIN: And Anderson, since that statement was made by the Pastor, the family did release late this afternoon an actual statement in which not only they offered their condolences and sympathies to the victim's families. But also you could tell that they were watching those families during that bond hearing because they thank them for their outpouring of forgiveness that they gave for their son, brother, who was now in custody for these heinous crimes. Anderson?

COOPER: And Brian, the roommates told you about what seemed like a dispute within the shooter's family about his purchase of a gun, right?

TODD: That's right, Anderson. And another really disturbing layer to the story, Joey Meek said that the shooter's parents did not want him to have a gun and I asked him, "Why not?" And he said, "He doesn't really know just something instinct that they had." But they did give the shooter some money for his 21st birthday in April and that they've divided up the money that his parent would give him so that he would be able to buy the gun and put it in his name. They did not buy the gun outright for him.

But there was a dispute within the family. They didn't want him to have a gun, had some inkling that maybe something bad would happen. But then in the end, they appeared to give in, split up the money, gave him some money so that he could buy a gun and put it in his own name.

Again, between that layer, and the layer of his friend, Joey Meek, having taken the gun from him at one point and then giving it back, there were points along the way here, Anderson, where you think, this really could have been prevented and whoever was in the way of it for whatever reason didn't prevent it.

COOPER: Yeah. Brian, I appreciate your reporting all day now. It's been a long day for you, Drew Griffin as well.

Just ahead, we're going to be focusing attention where it should be tonight. On those who were killed here, those who were murdered here, the nine people, whose lives were taken away. Cynthia Hurd was a librarian with the passion for books who worked for three decades at the Charleston County Public Library. She worked her way up, worked her way up at library system. Her brother shares fun memories coming out.




COOPER: Incredibly moving scene here in the last hour of 360. The crowd just breaking in to song of "Amazing Grace" as bagpiper began to play. We have more singing right now outside the church by the Makeshift Memorial where people have been bringing flowers for days now.

We want to focus as we have over the last two nights on those who were taken away from us, those whose lives were cut short in the hail of gunfire inside the Mother Emanuel Church.

We remember tonight, 54-year-old Cynthia Hurd, a Charleston native. She worked for 31 years to Charleston County Public Library dedicating her life to books and to helping others.

Earlier, I spoke with her brother, former North Carolina State Senator, Malcolm Graham.


COOPER: What do you want people to know about Cynthia?

MALCOLM GRAHAM, CYNTHIA HURD'S BROTHER: I think it's a wonderful idea. She is beautiful. She is personable. She is sharp. She is candid. She was full of life. She loved people.

[21:30:00] She loved her family. She loved her community and she loved God. And so she is not just a name on the piece of paper. She is not a victim. She is a Christian. And on Wednesday, she celebrated her big victory.

COOPER: The fact that she was killed in a place that she love, doing what she love, does that (inaudible) some silence?

GRAHAM: You know, and she was in the church. And she was, in place -- she was in the presence of God. And she was in a place where she grew up. I mean, she knew that church back with (inaudible). She was in the choir, she (inaudible) speeches in that church.

Our mother went to that church (inaudible). I mean, we bury our parent, services in that church. I mean, so, it's a place where she felt probably the most comfortable and so, the fact that she loves the life there, in the presence of God, it give me some comfort.

COOPER: She really seems to dedicate herself to service. I mean, she worked her way after the library assistant here and the libraries really are about service. It's about helping people to...

GRAHAM: (Inaudible) that she got a time. You know, I used to be an elected official and I would talk about constituent service, she said why (inaudible) constituent, too, and as the people that walked into the library. And she felt very passionate about them in terms of helping kids learn to read, helping kids learn to write, helping them pickup the right book.

I mean, she did more than just the library staff and she went beyond the walls of the library, and outside into the communities, and really cared in a special way. And 31 years of service to the library assistant here in Charleston, it speaks volume. And the fact that they are willing to dedicate a name of a library after her means that her legacy will live forever and that's something that I'm grateful for as well as the entire family.

COOPER: At the hearing today, I don't use this person's name but family members were there and they spoke to the person who did this and some of them spoke about forgiveness. And I'm wondering what you thought of that?

GRAHAM: It's so early for me to forgive. If my sister was walking across the street and was struck by a car, I can forgive immediately. If she was in a tennis match and something happened to her and I can forgive.

This was pretty meditative. This was calculated. This was hate. And so, over time, maybe I can get to the point where I can say I forgive. Today, I cannot. Today, I want the judicial system to do its work, to fulfill his obligation, and to penalize this guy for what he's done not only to my sister, the members of the Emanuel AME Church and what he's done for this community.

And in time, maybe, I can forgive but today, I want justice for my family.

COOPER: Is there one particular memory of your sister that you hold onto that you think about?

GRAHAM: You know, something I had -- a real strange relationship. You know, we talked, you know, often and -- but, you know, I suffered a lost. I ran for Congress and lost and I was, you know, I guess I need counseling. And she just basically told me, "Hey, get over it." And don't look backwards, look forward. And she was always saw the bright side of something.

And when (inaudible) doom and gloom , she was able to paint a different type of picture or different perspective. There were so many other things other than a victim. And so, we celebrate her life. Sunday would have been her 55th birthday. And so, we celebrate her life and we won't look back as she would tell me. She would say look forward and so, we look forward to all the -- her receiving her glory in heaven.

COOPER: Thank you so much for talking to us.

GRAHAM: Thank you.


COOPER: Sunday would have been Cynthia Hurd's 55th birthday, she and eight others here, the church behind me that their murder certainly has reopened the old wounds in Charleston and across the state.

Take at look at the picture right now. The U.S. and state flags fly at half-staff above the Capitol dome but the Confederate flag also on the Capitol grounds by South Carolina law cannot actually be lower. It has to remain flying at full-staff. The controversy when we continue.



COOPER: At the State House in South Carolina's Capitol, the only flag that is not flying in half-staff is the Confederate flag. It's actually padlocked into place by state law. In 2000, a larger Confederate flag was removed because it used to fly over the Capitol dome but in exchange for removing and all other tributes to the confederacy including the flag on the lawn became untouchable without an override by two-thirds of the state legislature.

The church massacre has renewed calls for -- by some for the flag to be taken down. Here's what Senator Lindsey Graham said earlier today.


SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM, SOUTH CAROLINA: At the end of the day, it is time for the people in South Carolina to revisit that decision, it would be fine with me, but this is part of who we are. The flag represents, to some people, a Civil War, and that was the symbol of one side. To others, it is a racist symbol, and it has been used by people. It's been used in a racist way. But the problems we have today in South Carolina throughout the world are not because of the movie or symbols caused what people -- what's in peoples' heart.

You know, how do you go back and reconstruct America? I mean, what do you do in terms of our history?


COOPER: Joining me now is South Carolina's State Representative David Mack and South Carolina State Senator Vincent Sheheen.

To you, what does it say to see that Confederate flag not only flying but flying at none at half-staff?


COOPER: Not surprise.

MACK: I voted against the so-called compromise. I voted against the...

COOPER: The compromise which move the flag.

MACK: Which move the flag..,

COOPER: Right.

MACK: ... in west and then, of another separate (inaudible) that call for two-thirds vote impose the House and the Senate in order to change anything on the State House ground.

[21:40:00] I voted against that but, you know, and there's a (inaudible) right now when a lot of pain we had, a minister and, you know, nine people, good people, who lost their lives in this way. So it renews that and I would say that to Senator Lindsey Graham as far as confederacy we know what it means, a good time was not had by all.

We're not happy with that flag onto any circumstances and this is just open up the (inaudible).

COOPER: To say -- for him to say it represents who, you know, a part of who we are, that we is talking about -- it's not all. It's not everybody.

MACK: You know, Like I said a good type of that (inaudible). The confederacy every thing is relates to slavery and we are embedded on that in the South, you go right up the street there is a large statue of John Callum (ph). So you know this is -- it's we need to move forward.

COOPER: (Inaudible) and there's even a statue of a gynecologists who used the experiment.

MACK: That is on the State House ground.

COOPER: Experiment on African-American women.

MACK: African-American (inaudible) I think his name. And there is a statue of him, it's called the father gynecology, he used to work on African women without anesthesia and they used to die and, you know constantly, you did roll up get it. Another one he do work and his on it as the father gynecology.

COOPER: Senator Sheheen, I mean the idea that the U.S. flag and the state flag of South Carolina are at half-staff and the confederate flag as flying at full-staff. What do you say to those, you know, who say, "Look, that's just part of the history here"?

VINCENT SHEHEEN, SOUTH CAROLINA STATE SENATOR: You know, I'd say that the future is more important than our past. I sat in State Senate next to Senator Clementa Pinckney who was assassinated just two days ago. I was with him hours before that happen by a racist killer. And if we're ever going to move the state forward, we have to realize that people look at things differently in symbols do matter.

And if we're going to move forward, we can't have a racially divisive symbol flying in front of our State House. I'd called on its news last year when I where in for governor because I feel like it was the right thing to do because I felt like the leaders need to led. And also often to this state, we hear elected officials just saying things to try not to say anything.

COOPER: Representative, I mean, this is your community, to see people that bond hearing today, survivors, people who've lost their loved ones two days ago, to see them talk about forgiveness. I think a lot of people were just stunned by that, were you surprised and what did it make you feel?

MACK: Well, you know, I knew several folks and obviously Senator Clementa Pinckeny and their families. And I think one of the things that I don't want people to do is the mistake that kindness that forgiveness for weakness. Those were people that voted, those are the family, the family votes, the family works with neighbor association meetings to move out community forward. And I think the attitude was people need to be, that we have to fight. We have to fight together, we have to build this community.

We have to make sure, you know, the person that assassinated those folks the other night, some people just playing evil. There is other way to quote it, just playing evil. We're going to have those. So I think it's very key that we mobilized and move forward from it.

COOPER: Senator Sheheen, for you, I mean, I know...

MACK: Yeah.

COOPER: Sorry, go ahead.

SHEHEEN: Well, you know, its really raw right, Anderson, and I have been down there in the church who (inaudible) before and David it's good to hear your voice. Those folks down there, they have a long history of dealing with tragedy with pain, with suffering. And I think what you saw and what you seen from our community down there is a long history of coping with really terrible things happening but that doesn't make any of this OK. We should remember that our friends were just killed brutally.

And if we can do anything in the state to bring people together to remove symbols that divide us then we ought to do it. That should be their legacy. Their legacy should be that we moved forward. They are the strong people in this whole affair. Those non-people were the heroes. They are our heroes, right.

COOPER: Yeah. Representative Mack, I appreciate you being with us and Senator Sheheen as well, still a lot to talk about.

But the crowd behind me still 100 strong here at this hour. I'll take you down into the crowd to show you what we have been seen and to hear the voices of the people who are still gathering outside Mother Emanuel Church.

We'll be right back.



COOPER: And welcome back.

I'm right outside of Mother Emanuel Church here. This is the Makeshift Memorial which has just been growing each day as people come they bring flowers, they bring balloons, they bring breeze (ph), teddy bears. People just want to take part in this to see people from all around Charleston, from all around the state.

And if you look there's a crowd now of hundreds of people here. They have been here from hours now after the prayer vigil ended many of them in here. There is someone who's preaching right now, we have heard songs as well people clapping.

I want to introduce Shemiky Gray (ph) , came down, you were involved in the prayer vigil? What is that like being here tonight?

SHEMIKY GRAY (PH), PRAYER VIGIL PARTICIPANT: It's amazing. It's very powerful everybody is coming together. It's not like we're singing individual hymns. I actually came down, I have a friend, I had my own -- we had our own prayer vigil down the street, but he was like, "Come on, help me sing." And we came down here, we sing songs that know. The people would sing a songs, everybody is singing songs and praying as unity, and it's amazing and powerful.

COOPER: It is. Let's just listen in as you see the crowd listen.


COOPER: And we'll be right back.



COOPER: And I'm still outside the Mother Emanuel Church right behind the memorial. I want you to meet Reverend John Paul Brown, you know, this church well you were married...


COOPER: .. in this church.

BROWN: ... 24 years ago, to my wife Viola (ph).

COOPER: And you were pastor to Pastor Pinckney before he was...

BROWN: Yeah. My first charge around 1977 at Saint John AME Church in Ridgeland, Pinckney was a little fellow there, very studios, and he help us in teaching that the young kids in class.

COOPER: Did you think he was come become a pastor?

BROWN: Yeah. I know somebody about him, you know, sports didn't interest him, going outside then it's with him. He just want to lead and he's -- that was his demeanor.

[21:55:00] COOPER: I heard -- because I talked to his cousin the other day, and she was saying that, his mom kept trying to get him do sports and finally went out he got injured and she was like, "OK. That's it, you can just read".

BROWN: Right. And with his family then went church, his uncle Donald Stevenson (ph), Donald Stevenson was assigned elder in this -- in the Charleston district. And he through his progression, young man administered 80 (inaudible) church, 23 or 24 years of age his a House Representative and then to the Senate now over 20 years.

COOPER: I want to ask you about, you know, we know I don't use the name of the person who killed, who committed...

BROWN: Right, right.

COOPER: ... mass murder in here. But we know he picked this church in particular. He did research. He knows about the importance of this church. Can you talk about the importance of this church in the African-American community?

BROWN: Not -- no. Not in the...

COOPER: In the -- and the American history I should point.

BROWN: In American history when are the White Methodist Church dehumanize blacks. They needed place of worship of work, when that church was assembled in 1818, this became a haven. And slaves migrated here to get away from slavery then my (inaudible) they charge with the (inaudible) it was a fact that they want to be free.

This was the beacon (ph). This was their home, through this church, the AME Church, the mother church in the South, my church is Mount Zion AME Church 1822. It was Zion Presbyterian. This church became overcrowded they are 4,000. It went to 4,900 they have to find another church.

COOPER: And this church was burned to the ground...

BROWN: Yes...

COOPER: ... by authority.

BROWN: ... so the insurrection. But to show you the result, so when you get people like the person who did what he did, he thought that his effort was going to diminished the church, the work, wipe out what African-American have done, but the irony for him is, people who did not know the history of Mother Emanuel and here as Anderson Cooper standing at 110 Calhoun Street, Walter Scott didn't give him the North Charleston, 97 of 100 different media here because this guy decided he didn't want African-American, and the institution to have any recognition.

Well, my goodness. I will say this, concerning that person. I don't know want the death penalty, I want to do what they did in Clockwork Orange. They're going to rehabilitate him. They will take every film every piece of vigil that was here all the blacks and white...

COOPER: You want to see him the images?

BROWN: I -- yeah. Put him in a room, put him on continuous loop and play it over, and over, and over, and let him see it.

COOPER: The pictures tonight and your word tonight would be powerful indeed. Reverend, I appreciate your time...

BROWN: I appreciate your time...

COOPER: Thank you so much.

BROWN: ... I really glad to meet you.

COOPER: It's an honor.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

COOPER: One of the messages we have heard so much in his last several days is that, despite that the hate that we have seen witness in the murder inside this church. But besides in the face of the horror, one message people have said over and over again is, we shall overcome, listen.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: We shall overcome.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shall overcome.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: We shall overcome.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shall overcome.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: We shall overcome.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh yeah oh deep in my heart, I do believe.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: Deep in my heart.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shall overcome.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: We shall overcome.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all walk hand in hand.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: We walk hand in hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We walk hand in hand.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: We walk hand in hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We walk hand in hand.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: We walk hand in hand.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, oh deep in my heart.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: We shall overcome. Amen.

COOPER: Some of the incredible power that we have seen here and that is -- we are seeing that here again tonight more songs here.

Our coverage continues with CNN's Don Lemon, Don.