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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Police Closing In On Two Convicted Killers; Joyce Mitchell Admits to Hiding Weapons in Frozen Meat; Report: Autopsy Shows Freddie Gray's Death Was A Homicide; Sears, Walmart Ban Confederate Flag Merchandise. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired June 23, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:09] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, breaking news in the manhunt for two convicted killers. Prison worker Joyce Mitchell just admitting to hiding hacksaw blades in hamburger meat.
And new clues tonight. Boots found belonging to one of the killers. Are police about to catch them?
And more breaking news, Freddie Gray's autopsy just leaking tonight. What does this mean for the Baltimore officers charged in his death? The stunning conclusions from that report.
Plus, new dashcam video from the moment Charleston Church gunman Dylann Roof was arrested. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight. Breaking news. Police closing in on the two convicted killers. More than 1,000 officers now converging on the tiny rural New York town of Owls Head. They are looking for signs of Richard Matt and David Sweat. There was a major development tonight, because police say the men left behind a pair of boots in a cabin, they say this could mean at least one of the men is fleeing barefoot. The terrain is rugged and unforgiving, you're going to see it in detail in just a moment. Heavy underbrush. Swamps and steep cliffs litter the area.
Also breaking at this hour, a source just now telling CNN that Joyce Mitchell, that's the prison employee under arrest for helping Matt and Sweat, she's confessed to putting hacksaw blades into frozen chunks of hamburger meat. That meat then she passed on to apparently a correction officer who gave it to Richard Matt and didn't put it through a metal detector. We'll have much more on this reporting, including the fact that she tried to convince other prison employees to move the two killers cells so that they were side by side. Mitchell's husband Lyle today speaking out for the first time, saying despite all these reports, his wife says she did not have sex with the two men.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ask her point black --
LYLE MITCHELL, JOYCE MITCHELL'S HUSBAND: Absolutely, she wore on her son's life and her son -- I never ever had sex with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We begin our coverage with Alexandra Field. She is OUTFRONT live in Owls Head where the police has been stepping up their search. Some last minute desperate runs today as they thought they might have sighted the fugitives as they closed in.
Alexandra, you've been speaking with police, they have an alarming new concern at this hour?
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. There has been nothing but a sense of urgency to make this capture since Richard Matt and David Sweat broke out of that maximum security prison more than two weeks ago. With every passing day as they continued to evade law enforcement officers, that sense of urgency only grows but law enforcement is preparing for what could or may happen whatever eventuality there may be when they do finally make this capture. We're hearing from the Franklin County sheriff, a little more about this area tonight. We know that this is an area that's filled with seasonal homes and cabins.
The sheriff here saying, a lot of these cabins and camps are used for hunting purposes. It is entirely possible that people who packed up and left for the winter could have left guns behind. So, again, law enforcement officers making sure that they are fully prepared for any eventuality, when they do make that capture which they hope to make. But Erin, it's been three days since law enforcement has come out saying that they had a confirmed lead in this case, so they are pursuing every tip that is generated in this area. Throughout the day today, Erin, we watched as they swarmed various areas when reported sightings were called in. They would bring in the canines --
FIELD: They would bring in law enforcement investigators, they would bring in the helicopters, and then they would clear those areas after they determined that a lead was not found.
BURNETT: And they also. You today Alexandra went out in the woods today to see what they were doing, to see where they were looking, and you found it incredibly hard to navigate.
FIELD: Yes. It's been a really big question for everyone, could they make their way on foot from Dannemora to this area, some 22 miles west, and the reality is that this is the northern part of the Adirondacks. It is deeply forested. It is deeply weeded. We were out there taking a look around today. The advantage the fugitives have of course out here is the possibility of gaining some cover in that brush. But we know the reality is that there are these empty homes, these empty camps and cabins which are out there right now. Which could make it easier for the fugitives and the sense that it may provide some temporary shelter. Law enforcement of course continuing to hope though that they make a misstep, that they burglarize, that they break in, that somebody catches that, and that's what leads police to ultimately close in on them -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. And they're hoping obviously as you're saying, with all this urgency, hoping every hour that they're going to get them. There is now a shocking new detail about Joyce Mitchell, that's the woman as I said charged with helping the killer's escape. A source telling CNN tonight, that Mitchell put a number of hacksaw blades, a number, so more than one in frozen meat. Then she gave that meat to a prison guard to hand deliver it to one of the convicted killers. And that guard apparently did not put the meat through a metal detector.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT live in Cadyville, New York. Jason is the one who is breaking all of this news. What are you learning, Jason? I mean, this is some pretty stunning stuff.
[19:05:06] JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely is. Just another wrinkle in this story that just seems to have one strange detail after another. That guard that you talked about, his name is Gene Palmer. I spoke to his attorney. I spoke to him at length. He said that his client did not know what was inside that meat, but he also admitted that his client did not pass that meat through a metal detector. Also (audio gap) -- investigation telling me that this is a woman who had been vouching for both Richard Matt and David Sweat for several months, actually baking goods and giving them to other guards to curry favor, to convince other guards there at the correctional facility that these two were good guys, guys who could be trusted.
She went as far according to the source as to recommend that David Sweat's cell be moved right next to Richard Matt's. All of this information coming forward as her husband is also coming forward speaking about all those allegations surrounding her.
CARROLL (voice-over): As the search continues for the escaped inmates, a chilling video from ABC News shows Richard Matt in 1997 smiling and posing with a blow gun, it offers some insight into his mindset.
RICHARD MATT, ESCAPED INMATE: We're going to put a patent on them and sell them as deadly weapons.
CARROLL: The blow gun is then fired into his arm, the video taken nine months before he murdered and dismembered his own boss. Forty eight-year-old Matt and 35-year-old David Sweat are now the center of a massive manhunt, their escape police say aided by 51-year- old prison employee Joyce Mitchell who befriended the convicted killers and allegedly agreed to be their getaway driver.
MITCHELL: I said, how can you do that? She said, it just got out of hand, then I was scared and I didn't know what to do.
CARROLL: Mitchell's husband Lyle speaking to NBC's Matt Lauer denied reports his wife had a relationship with David Sweat and denied that she had sex with the other escaped inmate Richard Matt.
MITCHELL: She didn't know if I loved her any more, she said. And if I had given her a little attention, she said, it went too far. He tried to kiss her a couple times, she said, no, and that's when he started to threaten her on things.
CARROLL: Law enforcement sources tells CNN Joyce Mitchell told investigators Matt and Sweat plan to kill her husband. According to Lyle, Matt even offered her pills to, quote, "knock him out."
MITCHELL: She said, "I love my husband, I am not hurting him." She said then I knew I was in over my head. She said, "I can't do this."
CARROLL: Lyle also says his wife acknowledged he liked the attention the inmates gave her. And that her involvement was more of a fantasy, that she was a victim of Matt's charm. But if Mitchell may be more con than victim, a source familiar with the investigation says, for several months Mitchell routinely vouched for Matt and Sweat at the prison, bringing baked goods to guards in exchange for favors for the two inmates. That same source said Mitchell went as far as to go to prison officials and ask that Sweat's cell be moved next to Matt's. The Clinton Correctional Facility would not comment on whether Mitchell requested the two inmates be housed next to each other. A spokeswoman for the Department of Correction says, there are a number of ongoing investigations. And that until they have concluded. Quote, "We will not be able to provide information on issues that may be under review."
CARROLL: And Erin, there will be a review of prison policy. One of the agencies looking into this now. The New York State Inspector General again, one of the many agencies looking into everything that happened at that prison before the escape -- Erin.
BURNETT: Jason, thank you very much. I want to go straight now to the Franklin County District Attorney Glenn MacNeill, he is helping with the manhunt which is happening now of course right where you are, sir. And I appreciate your time.
Obviously, you just heard our Alexandra Field reporting that official say, these men could now be armed. How big of a concern is that for you?
GLENN MACNEILL, FRANKLIN COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, I think, I mean, obviously it's a concern, I'm confident that the police authorities here will capture these guys. You know, we have a very large police presence and they know what they're doing.
BURNETT: Now, there were a couple false sightings, and obviously there's urgency, right? When there's a sighting, they're putting all the resources into it. It turned out though that they have not panned out. Does that worry you?
MACNEILL: No, you know, obviously one of them was a civilian making a report. So, we're happy about the fact that the population here is keeping an eye out for things and making reports as they've been requested. So, you know, things like that will happen. Each of the reports will be investigated and confirmed or not. BURNETT: You've got about 1,000 people looking right now, that's
20 percent more than last week, so just as everyone said, you were going to pull it back, you all are putting more people in. Because obviously you're confident that they're nearby. Can you keep that kind of manpower steady?
[19:10:12] MACNEILL: Yes, I think that is so. And, you know, we've had help from all over the state and throughout, from Vermont. So, we've seen people from Long Island, Syracuse, Utica. You name it, they've been here, and that's how it's all been working. So, I'm confident that we can keep the manpower going.
BURNETT: Glenn, thank you very much.
MACNEILL: You're welcome.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, I want to bring in James Pray, a former correction officer at the Clinton County Correction facility. He worked with Joyce and Lyle Mitchell. He knew the two inmates, Richard Matt and David Sweat. Sir, so you know more than pretty much anybody else right now, the breaking news tonight, CNN learning Joyce Mitchell admitted to putting those hacksaw blades into the frozen hamburger meat and then giving it to a guard to deliver it to Richard Matt. You know, Joyce, is this add up to you?
JAMES PRAY, WORKED WITH JOYCE AND LYLE MITCHELL AT PRISON: No, I mean, I won't have done it.
BURNETT: Oh, I know, you won't have done it. But does it shock you to hear that Joyce Mitchell would do that? Is that the woman that you know?
PRAY: No. I mean, I wouldn't say she would do that, no.
BURNETT: So, what do you think happen that made her do this? What we're getting is she's admitted to doing this, and also to lobbying prison officials to put the two men's cells side by side.
PRAY: Can't hardly hear 37.
BURNETT: Can you hear me now, James?
PRAY: Better, yes.
BURNETT: Okay. I was just saying, you know, we're also hearing that she's admitted to trying to get the men's cells to be side by side. To lobbying prison officials to do that. What do you think happen that would make her act this way?
PRAY: I do believe she was manipulated. As to, you know, the things when you get too close to inmates in the jail, they, you know, they've ask you to do favors and, you know, what? It just leads on from there.
BURNETT: Now, James. Do you think that there were others involved? You know, Joyce Mitchell is saying that she gave this meat with the blades in it to a guard. She convinced him to not put it through a metal detector. And we don't know whether he knew or didn't know what was going on. But the question to you is, do you think there were other people involved in helping these men escape?
PRAY: It's a possibility. I'm not saying for sure, because I don't know. But it's a possibility.
BURNETT: And because you knew Richard Matt and David Sweat, and you're one of the few who can say that, we saw a video just a moment ago on the program, James. Richard Matt was with a blow dart gun, he had a sick fascination with killing people. Is what you could see from this one, we saw the video. Is that -- does that fit with the inmate that you knew?
PRAY: No, I mean, Matt never really gave me a hard time at all, when he worked in the Taylor shop, he was I want to say a model inmate, he did all the right things. He didn't give me no problems.
BURNETT: So, you didn't see that in him. And what about in David Sweat?
PRAY: David Sweat was a little more shadier, sneakier. Basically, I think, he would probably be the one that masterminded the whole thing.
BURNETT: Oh, interesting. That's interesting that you said that. A lot of people have said, Matt. But you knew them both so you're saying David Sweat. You know, Lyle Mitchell spoke to Matt Lauer about the men and how they tried to manipulate him. Right? Not just his wife, but also Lyle Mitchell. And here's what they said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITCHELL: I've been there ten years, almost. Ten years September. And every time I weren't in there, these two always speak to me. Always.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they were going from person to person doing the same exact thing, seeing who they could get close to --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: James, were these guys just as charming to you, trying to win you over?
PRAY: Oh, no. Because I basically -- went and did my job. You don't make friends with inmates.
BURNETT: All right. Well, James, I appreciate your time, thank you, sir.
PRAY: Thank you.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT next, the killers on the run to get help from another prisoner, and are they taking a page from his playbook? Plus, more breaking news, the autopsy in the death of Freddie
Gray, that autopsy. Everybody has wanted and wanted and demanded. Well, guess what? Tonight it's leaked, we have it, and we'll tell you about the moment Gray died.
And South Carolina getting closer to taking down that confederate flag. But guess what, not everyone agrees. Here's what happened when we visited one store that sells confederate merchandise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we on your (bleep) agenda today? Get out of Somerville.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:18:25] BURNETT: Breaking news. We have just learned the results of Freddie Gray's autopsy. According to the Baltimore Sun, a single high energy injury caused Gray's death. The autopsy said that injury most likely happened when the police van Gray was riding in suddenly slowed down. Now, Freddie Gray of course is the 25-year-old black man who suffered a severe spinal cord injury in police custody. He died days later.
Joe Johns is OUTFRONT. Now, Joe, you know, it's important for people to understand, this autopsy report is the core of the case. Everyone has been waiting for it, demanding it, pounding the table for it, now all of a sudden it has leaked out. What is the bottom-line?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, the Baltimore Sun reporting the injury occurred inside the police van while Freddie Gray was in police custody. The paper said, Gray suffered a single high energy injury like those seen in shallow water diving accidents. Most likely caused when the police van in which he was riding suddenly decelerated. It says, the most significant injury to Gray was to the lower part of his head. And that the injury may have resulted when he got on his feet and was thrown into the wall of the police van. It's been widely reported he was not in a seat belt while he was in the van, but the Maryland State medical examiner's report said his wrists and ankles were shackled, making him at risk for an unsupported fall during acceleration or deceleration of the van -- Erin.
BURNETT: And so, Joe, I guess that is why they didn't rule this an accident, right? They're not saying they tried to kill him, but they are saying that he should have been restrained?
JOHNS: Right, according to the Sun's reporting, Gray's death was deemed a homicide, and could not be ruled an accident in part because of what is referred to as acts of omission, by the officers who handled Gray after his arrest, that the officers allegedly failed to follow safety procedures. So, yes, we've been reporting for a long time that Gray wasn't properly seat belted before the van started moving. Important to note that all six officers charged in the case have entered not guilty pleas. And this report also raises an issue that's likely to be emphasized by attorneys defending those six officers who have been charged in the case. The newspaper says, the medical examiner noted that Gray's body tested positive for opiates and flavonoids, the active ingredient in marijuana, apparently in his system at the time the autopsy was conducted.
BURNETT: Certainly going to be important for the defense. All right. Let's talk more about that now. Joe, thank you.
And I want to go now to the forensic scientists. Lawrence Kobilinsky and CNN legal analyst Mark O'Mara who was George Zimmerman's defense attorney in the Trayvon Martin trial.
Lawrence, you're with me, let me start with you, the autopsy, has leaked out. And as I said, I want to emphasize, this is what everybody has been waiting for. This is the core of it, we're getting all the details. He suffered a single high energy injury. What does that mean?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, first of all, we didn't see the autopsy report, we only have somebody's interpretation of the report, we haven't heard anything about broken vertebrae. The answer to the question directly is that it takes great force to break three vertebrae if that's exactly what happened. And that it happened sometime between the second stop and the fourth stop.
KOBILINSKY: And I think that's based on the observation that after the fourth stop he had trouble breathing, his limbs were limp, and so the likelihood is high that it happened after the second stop. I should say, though, had we had the autopsy report, we might have a better handle on whether this was a two-step problem. In other words, did the initial trauma to the vertebrae happen before he got into the van? I think that really hasn't been answered fully.
BURNETT: Right, and obviously that could be crucial in terms of culpability. I mean, Mark, everyone has been waiting for this report, what is the bottom-line for the officer's defense now?
MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, certainly the fact that there was some toxicology positive results, defense may try to use.
BURNETT: And you're talking there about the opiates and marijuana, right?
O'MARA: Yes, they may say that that made Gray act a certain way, or that he was over reacting to his circumstances or situation, but quite honestly, you're talking about things that are barbiturates that bring you down as opposed to PCP or crack/cocaine or some type of meth that may suggest over reaction. I think they have a really tough time if they overuse or try to use the toxicology. Most importantly like Larry said, you know, this is an event where when the police arrest you and take you into custody, they have an obligation and the responsibility to treat you a certain way. Not only with respect, but to protect your safety. BURNETT: Yes.
O'MARA: Obviously, that didn't happen. And I think the most significant problem they're going to have, is that they drove around with him, bouncing him around in that van for an hour, when it was a five or seven minute trip.
BURNETT: Which obviously leads to the implied conclusion that they were doing that on purpose to give him a rough ride, right?
BURNETT: That's the implication?
KOBILINSKY: Well, if they wanted to do something on purpose, they would have stood him up in the van, and then let the van ride.
KOBILINSKY: That didn't happen.
[19:23:16] BURNETT: Right. So, this is the core thing, right? They may have wanted to rough him up. But there's nothing in this report that indicates that they wanted to kill him, the driver of the van Caesar Goodson is the only one charged with murder, but he is charged with second degree murder. Now, if it is true, they didn't seat belt him, they gave him a rough ride, but they didn't intent to kill him, would that charge hold up?
KOBILINSKY: Well, I think that's more of a negligent homicide, when you talk about depraved --
BURNETT: It's a lesser charge.
KOBILINSKY: It's almost like there's a willful intent to kill, I don't see that here.
BURNETT: And Mark? Was that your takeaway too?
O'MARA: It's close, because here's the thing, it goes from neglect to willful the more you do. And in this case, what they're saying is, the driver of the car who had responsibility for the car, if he was stopping and starting, which is now supported by the medical examiner's report seemingly, that it happened because of the quick deceleration and acceleration. That's on the driver, and I think since we know the prosecutor had the report a day before she made these charges, that she held the driver responsible because he was the one moving that car forward or stopping and starting quickly --
O'MARA: -- which is exactly what led to the death.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks very much both of you, obviously, this possibly complicating the prosecutor's job on some levels, on other levels, supporting her charges. We should note that the Prosecutor Marilyn Mosby is saying, she did not release this is not the one responsible for the leak tonight.
OUTFRONT next, breaking news on South Carolina's confederate flag. And our trip to a store selling confederate flag merchandise. Take a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People come together in peace, why don't you worry about that? Huh? This isn't peaceful. You guys are here stirring things up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You are not going to want to miss that report. That's next.
We also have new dashcam video showing the very moment the Charleston church shooter was captured.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:29:01] BURNETT: Breaking news, South Carolina lawmakers voting to consider taking down the confederate flag. Now, this is a major step, and it happened as protesters surrounded the state's capitol demanding the flag come down. Dylann Roof, the racist killer who slaughtered nine innocent African-Americans to start what he called a race war used the flag as you see as a symbol of hate.
Just today, the governors of Virginia and North Carolina called for the removal of confederate flags from license plates and more major retailers said they'll stop selling confederate flag merchandise.
Our Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT. And Ed, the confederate flag was flown in a war though to preserve slavery. But many still do not want to see it go, do they?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, there's no question, the confederate flag's symbol is deeply embedded in some parts of southern culture. But as you've seen a growing chorus of people calling for the flag to disappear in recent days, we saw today first-hand the intensity and anger this issue can spark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we on your (bleep) agenda today? Get out of Somerville.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): This is what happened when we tried to shoot video of a store in Somerville, South Carolina selling confederate battle flag memorabilia. This man who refused to identify himself, wanted to make sure we couldn't show you the sign announcing three shirts for $25. He threw in an obscenity laced tirade for free. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're stirring (EXPLETIVE DELETED). People
come together in peace, why don't you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) worry about that? This isn't (EXPLETIVE DELETED) peaceful. You guys are here stirring (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
LAVANDERA: And it didn't end there. The man followed us and tried to get in the way of us shooting other pictures around town.
With so much focus on the Confederate battle flag, tempers and passions are heated once again over this divisive symbol.
Since the murders of nine African-Americans at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, the calls to bring down the Confederate flag, have largely focused on the state capitol grounds. Confederate imagery is big business. Found in countless stores, shops and front yards across the South. Confederate flag symbols are emblazoned on everything you can imagine, bumper stickers, bikini, cigarette lighters, belt buckles.
But buying these items may be getting a little tougher. Amazon, eBay, Walmart and Sears are banning the sale of Confederate flag merchandise.
Randy Burbage keeps this Confederate flag cross stitch framed in his office.
RANDY BURBAGE, SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS: The national flag was changed.
LAVANDERA: Burbage is a spokesman for the Sons of Confederate veterans. He says 57 of his ancestors fought for the Confederacy in the civil war, 16 of them died in battle. For him, the confederate battle flag is a family symbol of honor and sacrifice.
BURBAGE: Once this flag is removed, it will start down to a slippery slope. And then the monument will be called for to be removed in state house grounds. And the next thing will be street names and building names, which has already begun. Complete eradication to eliminate all Confederate history.
LAVANDERA: Despite the calls for confederate symbols to come down, this is the reminder that the issue won't go away without a fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVES DELETED) You're all part of the problem.
LAVANDERA: Erin, as we mentioned, Amazon.com has decided to stop selling Confederate flag memorabilia. But it was interesting, before the company made that announcement, there was one confederate flag item that was being sold on the Web site and we noticed that in the last 24 hours, the sales for that Confederate flag jumped 2,300 percent -- Erin.
BURNETT: Wow. All right. Ed, thank you very much.
Pretty incredible when you saw the response of that guy from the Dixie store.
OUTFRONT now, I want to bring in South Carolina state representative, Republican Jonathon Hill.
I appreciate your taking the time, sir, and coming on to talk about this. A lot of people who believe what you believe aren't talking on TV. So, I want to start this by saying, I appreciate you doing it.
You believe the Confederate flag should keep flying in South Carolina, why?
STATE REP. JONATHON HILL (R-SC), AGAINST REMOVAL OF CONFEDERATE FLAG: Well, that is my position. And the reason I have that position is because I think it is extremely important that we remember this very dark time in our history, the mistakes that were made in the past, because, you know, if we begin to systematically, throughout our country begin removing all the monuments, all the flags and so forth, then, you know, we're going to put ourselves in a position where we begin to forget our past history.
It's not a history that any of us should really be proud of. Certainly, all lives matter, including the lives of those who fought and died for their homes and their families, in the Confederacy. But I think the real issue here is that you're not going to defeat racism through politics, you're going to defeat it through love and forgiveness. That's what the people of the Emanuel Church, I think, understood, and their response has been truly remarkable, thanks to the grace of God.
BURNETT: Look, it's true that getting rid of a flag isn't going to get rid of racism. I think that's a very, very -- there's no question that what you say there is true. But when you bring up the flag as a reminder of history, you're talking about it flying at a war memorial and how that's appropriate. You know, look, the South lost the war, a war that the South fought to preserve slavery. Similarly, the Nazis lost, right? To be consistent, would you be okay with a Nazi flag flying at a World War II Memorial?
HILL: I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?
BURNETT: I said, would you be OK with a Nazi flag flying at a World War II Memorial?
HILL: You know, I'm not sure if it's quite the same thing, I think that the -- certainly, the Nazi flag was part of Germany's history, and everything. But, you know, what we're talking about here is the Confederate flag. Specifically, it's General Lee's battle flag. I certainly understand the comparison.
And, you know, I think that there's a proper context for everything, including the swastika, including Germany's flag, and including the Confederate flag. I think that, you know, those who want to take it down out here, I don't know if it's visible in the monument, but the -- if you're going to take it down and put it in the museum, you're saying that the flag itself offends you, it's going to offend you in the museum context as well.
[19:35:05] This monument is essentially a mini-museum erected to the lives of those who fought and died. So, you know, I think once again, the real issue here is the thing that we should be focusing on, is the fact that the families and the community is really pulled together in Charleston, and that's a remarkable thing.
BURNETT: What I'm trying to understand, though, is the Confederate flag, you know, was a symbol of the side that went to war to preserve slavery, to preserve buying, selling and owning black people. That's what the South fought for in the civil war. Is that worth honoring?
HILL: Based on what now?
BURNETT: I'm saying the flag is --
HILL: Certainly --
BURNETT: Go ahead.
HILL: Certainly, the flag was used by the Confederacy, it was used in the war to help to maneuver troops and so forth. And yes, the South -- slavery was a component of the war between the states, and it was -- you know, unfortunately, we were on the wrong side of the slavery issue. I wish we hadn't had to fight a states rights battle over the issue of slavery. I wish that we'd been able to end that peacefully the way Great Britain did.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much, Representative Hill.
HILL: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, we have new dash cam video of the church gunman Dylann Roof showing the moments he was captured. And we're learning a lot more about his past. We have those breaking details right after this.
And more on our other breaking story, the New York manhunt. Could the killers be getting tips from another inmate who actually was on the run in the same area for months?
[19:40:41] BURNETT: We have breaking news because we have new video of the moment South Carolina church shooter Dylann Roof was arrested. There's been a lot of focus on what happened at this moment, how police treated him. The 21-year-old was captured in North Carolina the day after he gunned down nine people at an historic black church in Charleston.
In the video, Roof appears to be cooperating with police. He allows them to pat him down. He says that he did all this to start a race war.
Martin Savidge is OUTFRONT in Charleston tonight.
And, Martin, we have this new video. What more are we learning about Roof from this police report?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we have the incident report, and that's essentially the voice of the officer who makes the initial approach and takedown. You can only imagine how focused he must have been because he knows that he's now confronting a mass murderer, an armed mass murderer. So, the officer talks about how his tactical approach. He shouts to the automobile. He tells Roof, hey, put your hands on the staring wheel, which he's a little surprise, it seems like Roof actually does.
And then also commands Roof to do a number of other thing, such as turn off the ignition but do it slowly. And then eventually get out of the car and put your hands on the roof of the vehicle. He asks for the person's name and Dylann Roof identifies himself.
So, you're right. Step by step by step, Roof seems to be a perfect, cooperative person. And yet, he's the man who just -- well, 12 hours before, had gunned down in cold blood nine people.
Also in this incident report, we find out that the other officers find the weapon in the back seat. What is it? It looks like a Glock semiautomatic, which means it looks like the murder weapon.
And one more thing, they find a pillow. Apparently that's how he past the night, apparently sleeping in his car.
But you could tell, the officers are very surprised by his demeanor. This is not the mass murderer they expected to find, even though that's exactly what he was -- Erin.
BURNETT: No, of course, not what they expected to find and now as we've been learning, he had intended to take his own life after that mass killing.
Thanks to Martin.
I want to bring in criminologist Casey Jordan.
Now, Casey, we are also learning the gunman came from a rich family, in his area, very rich. Years ago, his father was making more than $150,000 a year. That was a lot of money.
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Right.
BURNETT: There was divorce. There was alleged physical abuse to his stepmother. Bad things but things that many people unfortunately go through. Nothing about this family seems to stand out as a red flag.
JORDAN: A lot of people were expecting to find out that the family was racist, that they may have been the sort who was ignorant, uneducated and provoked that kind of old world vigilantism.
So, the idea that they are upper middle class is not really surprising because it isn't really the income or the education. It is the conflict and dysfunction within a family, which is going to left Dylann Roof with a big void in his life, feeling alienated.
We have learned nothing about his biological mother. We don't know anything about his biological mother.
BURNETT: We know this is his stepmother.
JORDAN: His stepmother was raising him. And she's the one who alleged abuse on behalf of his father.
So, dropping out of high school at the ninth grade means he was feeling hopeless from a very young age.
BURNETT: As much as we say there aren't obvious red flags in the family, although as you point out, we don't know about the biological mother, there were red flags about Roof himself. There were a lot of them. Here's what two of his friends said to CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was saying he wanted to do something crazy, and that he wanted a race war, and I didn't believe him, but it happened.
JOHN MULLINS, HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATE OF DYLANN ROOF: They were jokes, I guess racist slurs, but they were never taken too seriously. Until now I'm looking at it in a different manner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Another one of his friend said he took Roof's gun away in the days before the murder he was worried he would do something. Not a single one of them said anything to law enforcement.
So, the question is, could this have been prevented?
JORDAN: What would have happened if they had called law enforcement? You have a First Amendment right to say as many racist things as you want to. It's action.
For him to just make vague, you know --
BURNETT: It's not like they would put him behind bars.
JORDAN: They couldn't have done anything. You have to actually make a very specific serious and threat to do great bodily harm to yourself or someone else before law enforcement can even intervene and hopefully get you a psych evaluation.
But he was doing was just exercising his First Amendment right to be racist.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Casey Jordan.
JORDAN: Good to be here.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, our other breaking story, the New York manhunt.
[19:45:02] Did the two killers get help from another prisoner? We found one who escaped in the same way, stayed hidden in a cabin the same area for five months.
And on a much lighter note, this is what happens when a morning show stunt truly misses the mark on television.
BURNETT: Breaking news, she hid hack saws in hamburger meat. A source telling CNN that Joyce Mitchell, the woman charged with helping killers Richard Matt and David Sweat escaped from maximum security prison admits to putting the hack saw blades into frozen meat. She then gave it to a prison guard, who handed it to Richard Matt, without putting it to a metal detector.
CNN also learning tonight that Mitchell asked prison officials to move Matt and Sweat's cells next to each other.
[19:50:04] And what we know about their 18 days on the run is eerily similar to the prison escape of a man named Ralph Bucky Philips, another killer who escaped and hid in the same woods for five months. The three killers all served time together at Clinton correctional.
Jean Casarez is OUTFRONT.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eighteen days into the search for Richard Matt and David Sweat, the convicted killers are still on the run. Their ability to avoid capture has striking similarities to another massive manhunt involving an inmate named Ralph Bucky Philips.
It was 2006 when Philips escaped from the Erie County correctional center, setting off the largest manhunt in New York state history. The five-month search forced law enforcement into the same hilly and wooded terrain where they are now searching for Matt and Sweat. And like the two escapees, Philips burglarized hunting cabins along the way.
SHERIFF JOSEPH GERACE, CHAUTAUQUA COUNTY, NEW YORK: They're supplied with food and, you know, non-perishables, and weapons. He was able to obtain guns from these cabins. We even found one place that he connected the television so he could watch himself on television.
CASAREZ: Were Matt and Sweat inspired by Philip's escape? The case was widely reported and the inmates were at the Clinton correctional facility at the same time, though was Philips was in 23- hour isolation.
DAVID FOLEY, CHAUTAUQUA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We have ample information and evidence that shows he knew exactly what he was doing.
CASAREZ: Sheriff Joseph Gerace of Chautauqua County helped search for Philips in the same treacherous mountains of Upstate New York and says it is rough.
GERACE: You're talking about heavy trees and brush and mosquitoes and -- overgrowth, and downed trees, ravines. It is almost shoulder to shoulder search because people can hide.
CASAREZ: Like Matt and Sweat, Philips was also on the U.S. Marshal's wanted list after his manhunt turned deadly. He shot three state troopers, killing one.
He eventually surrendered after 153 days in that difficult terrain.
Now, authorities are treading carefully, hoping this manhunt has a different ending.
BURNETT: So, they all three were you know at the same jail. The people you talked to believe it is very possible that Matt and Sweat learned from Bucky Philips.
CASAREZ: Well, I just got off the phone with the prosecutor who prosecuted Bucky Philips. And remember, as you said, in 2006, when they found him after five months, he was sent to the correctional center. David Sweat was already there at the time, and even though he was in protective in custody, Philips, he didn't really talk to inmates, inmates talk.
BURNETT: They'll find a way, yes.
CASAREZ: So, Terry Flynn, who I just spoke to, believes they learned from him quite possibly, because it's very similar, the cabins, hiding in the cabins. And the result of the largest manhunt in New York state culminated in a 164-page manual of what to do and not do when a prisoner escapes. You can bet, Erin, they are looking at this guide book right now, because this man shot and killed two troopers before he was finished.
BURNETT: That is the manual that they could be looking at.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Jeanne Casarez.
And next, Jeanne Moos, with the drummer who got the axe on live television. This happened in Manhattan. You know, it's FOX News.
We'll be back.
[19:57:52] BURNETT: An axe-throwing competition on live television, you know, what could possibly go wrong? Right, every television anchor knows how to throw an axe.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here is the right way to throw the axe.
And this was a FOX News exclusive. "FOX and Friends" co-host Pete Hegseth aiming for accuracy and missing.
What you didn't see on air is what the axe hit, or should we say who?
Drum roll, please?
Let's point marching band drummer Jeff Prosperie, got hammered by the axe, while the other band members kept drumming. Ouch!
But soon after Prosperie was being interviewed by the very co- host who had nailed him.
PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS: It's a delight to be here to celebrate.
JEFF PROSPERIE, BAND DRUMMER: Absolutely.
MOOS: And an even bigger delight to still have both hands.
On his Facebook page, Prosperie posted the cell phone video and called the negligence obviously a mishap "obvious negligence". "I am thankful to God that the double sided blade only hit broadside, on the outer elbow with significant impact and a couple of cuts." He said he was "focusing on full physical and emotional recovery."
Is it just me or is that code for a lawsuit?
Prosperie is not commenting and FOX News didn't reply. But who needs enemies when you got "FOX and Friends" like these? Accidentally tossing a ball in the face of a two-year-old basketball phenom?
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS: We'll be right back. We'll see how tight this is.
MOOS: Almost hurting themselves trying to demonstrate --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, watch it, Brian.
MOOS: How to be a man and change a tire.
But lest this sound like a hatchet job, anyone can make a bad throw. Remember when Ed Ames fired his tomahawk on "The Johnny Carson Show"? At least the drummer didn't get drilled below the belt. Jeanne Moos, CNN --
JOHNNY CARSON, COMEDIAN: I didn't even know you were Jewish.
MOOS: -- New York.
BURNETT: Oh, goodness.
OK, thank you for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.