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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Official: Prison Guards May Have Been Sleeping During Escape; Prison Guard Charged in Killers' Escape Speaks to CNN; Supreme Court Upholds Obama's Signature Health Care Law; Interview with Donald Trump. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired June 25, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:08] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, breaking news in the manhunt for two convicted killers. A prison guard's stunning confession leads to serious charges revealing major failures at the maximum security prison.
Then calls to ban the confederate flag spreads. The mayor of New Orleans considering a change in street names. Is this going too far? He is my guest tonight.
And Donald Trump surging in a new CNN poll just out tonight. Is he for real? Well, the presidential candidate will be OUTFRONT with me for a one on one interview. That's all coming up this hour. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with breaking news. Sleeping prison guards, that's what may have allowed the two killers to escape. A law enforcement official telling CNN that investigators are looking into whether prison guards on the honor block were sleeping during their shifts. That would mean David Sweat and Richard Matt were virtually unsupervised as they dug their way to freedom 20 days ago.
And tonight, the hunt is widening. There are 1,100 officers following more than 2,400 tips. And a second prison worker, Gene Palmer is now being charged for helping the killers' escape. You see him there. He was supposed to appear in court today. That hearing though postponed. Palmer admitting he provided tools to the killers. He says, he gave David Sweat a pair of needle nose pliers and a flat head screwdriver. Palmer saying, he gave Sweat those tools four times over the past eight months. Now, Palmer says, he didn't purposely help the killers' breakout, but he does admit in a newly uncovered radio interview that working in the prison is miserable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENE PALMER, CLINTON CORRECTIONAL FACILITY PRISON GUARD: With the money that they pay you, you'll go bald, you have high blood pressure, you'll become an alcoholic, you'll divorce and then you'll kill yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Jean Casarez is OUTFRONT from Plattsburg, New York. Part of the area where officials are hunting the killers tonight.
Gene Palmer is the second one charged in this case, Jean. And the charges are very serious.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You are right. They are very serious. Three felonies. One misdemeanor. This is a veteran prison employee. And now he's facing many years behind bars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This court is now in session for all criminal cases in the town of Plattsburg.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Gene Palmer is the second prison employee to be arrested in connection with the escape of Richard Matt and David Sweat. A prison guard for more than 27 years, Palmer is charged with promoting prison contraband and tampering with evidence. Today his defense stalled right from the start after his attorney dropped his client, saying he doesn't have the resources to defend him.
ANDREW BROCKWAY, ATTORNEY: This case is getting national attention. There are people parked outside of my house. There's people going to the office. We're just not equipped to deal with that.
CASAREZ: Prosecutors first linked Palmer to the case identifying him as the guard who took frozen meat embedded with smuggled tools, allegedly from Joyce Mitchell and brought it to the inmates' cell area. Now, prosecutors say, on four different occasions he gave a flat head screw driver and needle nosed pliers to the inmates. Palmer allegedly did this between November 2014 and June 6, 2015 while authorities say, Matt and Sweat were planning their escape. The prosecutor also says, Matt and Sweat told Palmer they needed the tools to fix electrical issues on the catwalk behind their cells. A former maintenance supervisor at Clinton tells CNN inmates often worked on electrical issues when the maintenance department was understaffed.
ANDREW WYLIE, CLINTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It's improper. It violates the rules and procedures of the Department of Corrections. It violates the penal law of official misconduct. And so, those are issues that we're going to deal with.
CASAREZ: Authorities say, Palmer also tampered with physical evidence after the two convicted killers escaped by burning paintings given to him by Matt and Sweat and also burying paintings at a location a few miles from his home. But a source tells CNN, Palmer claims in an interview with New York State police that he didn't intentionally help the escapees. And a friend and neighbor says, Palmer is confused.
SANDY O'NEILL, FRIEND OF GENE PALMER: I mean, there is a lot of people that, you know, he feels he's let down, and I told him he has not. Everybody is with him 100 percent. And until they come to the bottom of it, nothing we can do.
CASAREZ: Palmer hasn't spoken publicly but talked about the prison system in a radio interview 15 years ago.
PALMER: New York State, besides California, they really have the best prison systems in the United States.
CASAREZ: And if convicted, Palmer will be seeing that system from the other side.
CASAREZ: And Palmer's new lawyer is William Dreyer. He's practiced his law in Albany, he has practiced for 40 years. He specializes in criminal law. And he should be here on Monday because that is when the next court appearance is for this brand new defendant -- Erin.
[19:05:08] BURNETT: All right. Jean Casarez, thank you. Live where the hunt is going on tonight.
I want to go now to our producer Shimon Prokupecz. Shimon, you actually had the chance to meet with Gene Palmer for an hour. One of the very few people who's had a chance to see him one on one, to talk to him, to see what he's like. What did he tell you?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN PRODUCER: Well, we didn't really talk about what happened, you know, because there's a criminal investigation. He didn't want to talk about what he did, what he didn't do. I think he really wanted to get across how this has all affected his life. He views this as something shameful. He's brought great shame to this community. Great shame to himself. Great shame to his family. And, you know, he appears to be just a really good guy. Kind of a guy who has been working at the prison for 28 years.
PROKUPECZ: Didn't think he was doing anything wrong. And basically felt that, you know, whether it's giving them meat or given them the pliers, this was sort of the normal course of business at the jail. This is what other guards have done. He didn't say that to me. But you sort of got the impression that he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.
BURNETT: Hmm. Interesting. So you found that to be a believable answer. Because I think some people are saying, how could that be? But interesting that, you know, you found that believable when you talked to him. What was his demeanor like, what was his, you know, his person like?
PROKUPECZ: Agitated. I mean, he was calm, he was thoughtful. He would sit there and sort of think before he would speak.
PROKUPECZ: I mean, he wanted to make sure he didn't say anything that would come back to hurt him. But, you know, I felt sort of he was truthful certainly. I can sort of sense the pain. You know, at times it was difficult to sit there and listen to him because there was a certain sadness. He was just really, really sad. Because he knew that his life was over. He knew that he was no longer going to be a correction officer. Something he's so proud of. Something that he's been doing for so long that's been part of his life and now is over. And he knew that. He knew that sitting there. And, you know, he also has family. And what the shame that he brought to his family and I think in the end, he is sort of stunned. He's stunned at how Joyce Mitchell betrayed him. He trusted her. He thought she would do the right thing. You know, he in no way knew that there were these tools or hacksaws in the bits, in the meat. So I think he just felt a lot of sadness.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Shimon, thank you very much. As I've said, Shimon had a chance to talk to Gene Palmer one on one.
Now I want to go to Erik Jensen. He served time at Clinton. He knew David Sweat, he knew Richard Matt, he knew Joyce Mitchell and he knew Gene Palmer. And Harry Houck, a retired NYPD detective. And I appreciate both of you being with me.
BURNETT: Erik, let me start with you. Just heard Shimon's impression of Gene Palmer. You knew him.
ERIK JENSEN, FORMER CLINTON CORRECTIONAL FACILITY INMATE: I did.
BURNETT: You knew he was sort of a kind of guard, as you're saying, he would trade information.
JENSEN: Information for favors.
BURNETT: For favors.
BURNETT: Okay. So, explain how that works and what the man is that you knew.
JENSEN: Well, it works like, if you want a special privilege, say you want more freedom, more out of your cell time to maybe go to somebody else's cell, do a tattoo, maybe go to somebody's cell to do a haircut, maybe you want a Walkman and you can't afford one commissary. So, what do you do? You give him some information. Inmates who have knives, drugs, other forms of contraband. Things like that nature. And you give him that information, it all pans out.
BURNETT: So, you're saying, it fits with him when he admits to passing these tools for five, four times --
BURNETT: -- this is exactly the kind of guard you'd expect. He would have done that.
JENSEN: Yes. If you wanted a favor. Hey, listen, I need to go rig my fuse behind in the electrical outlet behind my cell. Can I rig my fuse? You need a tools go back there. And then, you know, nobody ever really thought that these guys were going to escape, I don't think.
BURNETT: Hmm. So, Harry, when you hear that first of all, you know?
HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE FIRST GRADE: Right.
BURNETT: Someone who was there saying absolutely this would have happened. Gene Palmer saying, but I had no idea.
BURNETT: Do you buy that, that I had no idea?
HOUCK: You know, maybe he had no idea. I'm not exactly sure here. But the fact is that, you know, we have got two escaped convicts now. And because he didn't run meat through the metal scanner like he should have, and who are now armed, by the way, with rifles that they may have gotten out of that cabin. That, because of that, with his experience and his time, I could see maybe a rookie making a stupid mistake like this. All right? But there was a lackadaisical culture in this prison.
BURNETT: Uh-mm. This guy had been there almost 30 years.
HOUCK: Right. Exactly.
BURNETT: He's not a rookie.
HOUCK: And he's only, he's also thinking of, this is the way it's done in the prison for the last 30 years. I'd been here. So, I don't think I'm doing anything wrong there. But he's going to pay now.
BURNETT: Erik, I mean, he is saying he trusted Joyce Mitchell.
BURNETT: Is that ordinary that someone like Joyce Mitchell would say, well, I want to get this to prisoner. So, I'm going to pass it to this guard in between?
JENSEN: Without a doubt.
BURNETT: So, that would be standard. That wouldn't be a weird red flag for him?
JENSEN: No red flag at all. No red flag at all.
HOUCK: Well, what would her excuse have been to say, listen, don't put this meat through the scanner, right? What would her excuse have been and why would he have asked her or does she do this all the time, right? And they never scanned anything that she bought?
[19:10:18] BURNETT: They didn't scanned anything. I think that's a big question as to whether the scanners were really being used at all. That's a huge question. Now, Erik, the question for you, they get the tools.
BURNETT: They are obviously working on this for some period of time.
BURNETT: Nobody noticed? I mean, what about these people -- guards falling asleep?
JENSEN: That happens all the time. Sometimes they confiscate somebody's television. If you didn't buy your television, the proper way like through commissary and they search your cell, they'll take your television. But what they'll do is they take your television and they'll go plug it in so they can watch it down at their booth. So, they'll sit there and watch television with their feet kicked up.
BURNETT: So, they are not paying attention?
JENSEN: No attention at all.
BURNETT: Volume is up. You're not listening to someone sawing through the metal.
JENSEN: They have the radio's blasting. You know, they don't pay attention to anything. So, it's 47 cells. It's a long way if you're especially --
BURNETT: I mean, Harry, what we're learning from Erik, from Gene, from this whole system, how most secure prisons in the country operate is pretty frightening. Okay? Number one. But also the search. At 2400 tips. They haven't found them.
HOUCK: You know what it takes to go through these tips? I mean, I've done this. I've been on task forces where you sit there and weed tips. You have to be able to talk to, you can't -- there's no way they are following 2,400 tips. It isn't happening.
HOUCK: What they have to do is they have to weed through the tips.
BURNETT: What's real and what's bs.
HOUCK: What's real and what's not real. With fake questions, with real questions. So, you make sure is the caller legit. And then, if they feel really good about it they'll follow on that tip. We're going on day 20 now.
HOUCK: My question is, how long were those guys in that cabin? Were they there from the beginning? BURNETT: We don't know.
HOUCK: We don't know. It was a straight shot right there and it turns out to be a correction officer's place? Right? Several of them rent the place or they own the place? Did they go there directly and stay there? And was that cabin checked before or earlier during the initial search?
BURNETT: Yes. So many questions.
HOUCK: A lot of questions here.
BURNETT: And a lot of finger pointing of course going on as this goes on and one because we're getting frustrated. Erik, Harry, thank you.
And OUTFRONT next, the huge day for President Obama, the Supreme Court saving his signature healthcare law. The decision to major blow, the Republicans actually, is it?
Plus, a new CNN poll shows Donald Trump hot on the heels of Jeb Bush. The presidential candidate is with me here OUTFRONT one on one tonight. That interview coming up.
A new calls to ban symbols tied to the confederacy from the stained glass of the national cathedral to confederate games on iPhones. Where do you draw the line?
[19:15:54] BURNETT: Tonight, ObamaCare saved. In a major win for the White House, the Supreme Court upholding the President's healthcare law. That means 6.4 million Americans will continue receiving financial assistance from the federal government to buy health insurance. That decision vindicates President Obama's signature domestic achievement cementing what he believes is a court part of his legacy.
Michelle Kosinski is OUTFRONT.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Celebration outside the highest court. And in a far more reserved way, at the White House. The President and his chief-of-staff.
PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Today is a victory for hardworking Americans all across this country whose lives will continue to become more secure in a changing economy because of this law. The Affordable Care Act is here to stay.
KOSINSKI: Administration officials beamed from the front row.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were many hugs, high-fives. There may have been some happy dances. KOSINSKI: Even the White House photographer got into the spirit.
Instagraming the shot of the clock in the oval office that he says, stopped at the exact same time President Obama was told of the Supreme Court decision. And the President spoke directly to his legacy. Clearly feeling it solidifying now before him on this.
OBAMA: Someday our grandkids will ask us if there was really a time when America discriminated against people who get sick because that is something this law has ended for good.
KOSINSKI: The Supreme Court's majority opinion by conservative Chief Justice Roberts, no less, mirroring almost word for word what the White House has been saying about Congress' role.
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Their interest is not in trying to protect the critically important gains that have been enjoyed by millions of Americans across the country, but rather to dismantle them.
KOSINSKI: Roberts writing, "Congress passed the Affordable Care Act to improve health insurance markets, not to destroy them." President Obama though acknowledging that more battles lie ahead as Republicans vow to keep trying to, quote, "Protect Americans from ObamaCare by repealing it."
OBAMA: My greatest home is that rather than keep refighting battles that have been settled again and again and again, I can work with Republicans and Democrats to move forward. So this was a good day for America. Let's get back to work.
KOSINSKI: All right. So, this was a very narrow decision. I mean, it doesn't preclude other challenges. There's a lawsuit pending from the House. You hear Republicans say that they're going to keep on trying to knock down ObamaCare. The big question though, what will the odds of something like that be to succeed, on what grounds, and more so, would Republicans want to stomach politically the chance of something like that going through and then millions of people losing their health care -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Michelle, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT now, our senior political analyst David Gergen, he's a former presidential adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton and CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger.
Good to have both of you with us. Let me just start with you. Gloria, how will this decision define the President's legacy? Is this really it? Is this what cements it?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I think this was a day that the President will look back on, whether that clock stopped exactly at that time or not, and say that it was a defining moment for him. He came out and basically said, we were right all along. Move ahead, Republicans. You've got to stop trying to repeal this. You can't turn back the clock. And I think Republicans, privately, Erin, I will tell you this. Particularly Congressional Republicans, were kind of breathing a secret sigh of relief here because had the court overturned ObamaCare, they didn't have a plan B themselves.
BORGER: They weren't sure what they were going to do. And how they would make sure that people wouldn't have to pay suddenly higher insurance premiums and lose their subsidies. So, in a way, Congressional Republicans, not presidential candidates, but those in Congress who would have had to fix it are actually glad it's not on the docket for them right now.
[19:20:06] BURNETT: Well, David, and as Gloria says, those in Congress, but I mean, that includes people like Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. I mean, Ted Cruz has made it a crusade, right? To get rid of ObamaCare. And they didn't have an alternative. Right? They were going to actually have to extend the subsidies. I mean, what whore that would have been, right? And David, in a sense, this is a blessing for people like Ted Cruz. He can now, he can rant about it all he wants and he doesn't have to have an alternative.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (on the phone): It's a very good point. He has the issue. He'll campaign all the way through as I think most Republicans will. Which means that President Obama does have one more hurdle to clear to make sure that the Affordable Care Act is a permanent legacy and that is the 2016 elections. If the democrats win, ObamaCare is here to stay. If they lose, that we may see some significant modification, if not a repeal. But from the Republicans point of view, I think it is true, two things are true. One is, had it been overturned today, it really could have hurt the Republicans in the 2016 election because there would be chaos in some of these states, some of these key states like Ohio.
GERGEN: And like Wisconsin that are critical states in an election. When you have chaos, a lot of people -- 6.5 million people who have lost their health insurance across the country, 34 states, and with no plan B, that could be a real problem for Republicans.
BURNETT: Yes. Go ahead. Go ahead, David. Well, I was just going to throw the map up, actually. Sorry, I'll throw the map up. Because you mentioned the 34 states. 6.4 million Americans. So, that's right. And 25 of those states. You mentioned Ohio and Wisconsin, David. Twenty five of them are red states or toss-up states. So, that means, most of the people are living in states, you know, that would lose their insurance are living in states that Republicans have to win.
GERGEN: Absolutely. And I talked about -- you showed that map because it really does, I think, show in a very graphic way how dangerous it could be for Republicans in a period of chaos when people are losing their health insurance. They would have been blamed for it.
BORGER: But let me add this which is that in the primary fight, Republicans can all agree that they hate ObamaCare still, even after the Supreme Court decision because 72 percent of republican voters said they don't like ObamaCare. The problem for the Ted Cruzes of the world or anybody who becomes the republican nominee is that once you get into a general election, right, and you are facing a democrat, say it's Hillary Clinton, the public now about half of the public approves of ObamaCare. And then you are in a position of saying to people, A, this is exactly what I would propose to take its place. And, B, how am I going to do that without raising your health insurance premiums or taking away the fact that there are no more pre-existing conditions or your kids can stay on your health insurance until they are 26.
BORGER: So, it's a general election problem for presidential candidates. Not so much right now in the primary.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks very much to both of you. One thing we know, it is a victory for the President today.
Well, OUTFRONT next, Univision dumps trump over his comments about Mexicans when he called them rapists. Well, Donald Trump responds. He is my guest OUTFRONT, next.
Plus, the mayor of New Orleans on a mission to remove all symbols tied to the confederacy. Can this be done without rewriting American history? And pretending that something happened didn't.
[19:27:26] BURNETT: Just in, the Trump surge. A new CNN/WMUR poll released tonight showing Donald Trump a close second to Jeb Bush in New Hampshire. There's lots of numbers on that screen. But you see the headlines. Bush 16, Trump 11. More than a dozen republican candidates in the race and Trump is running ahead of all but one.
Also tonight. Univision jumping trump. The biggest Spanish language broadcaster in the United States canceling the Trump Miss USA pageant because of Trump's comments about Mexicans. Donald Trump will be my guest in a moment. He's going to respond to that.
But first, Dana Bash is OUTFRONT. And Dana, this poll is a big deal. Trump is barely trailing Jeb Bush.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is barely trailing Jeb Bush. And there are a lot of very interesting figures within the poll to explain why that is. Let's just take one example. The economy. Donald Trump is doing far better than -- never mind Jeb Bush but everybody else in the republican field. Twenty nine percent say, that he will handle the economy better than the others. Now, Erin, you know this. You have a financial background. I mean, it's not kind of that farfetched for people to look at a multibillionaire and think if he can amass that kind of wealth for himself, why not make him in charge of the economy of the U.S. And then there's another reality here. And I used that word intentionally.
He is a reality TV star of "The Apprentice" and people see him, millions of people see him doing things well with regard to economic issues. So that's probably why those issues are not a surprise. But it's not just that. It's also leadership and also that he's not a typical politician. For people who want somebody who is outside the main stream when it comes to the political ranks, by far, Donald Trump is the highest when it comes to the percentage.
BURNETT: A lot of people want someone outside.
BASH: Yes. They do.
BURNETT: So, that's good for him. But obviously, it's all about electability and who can beat the democrat which is widely presumed to be Hillary Clinton. How does he fare on that front?
BASH: Not so well. People in this poll, republican potential voters say that they do not think that Donald Trump is electable. By far, they think that Jeb Bush is the best republican to put out there to actually beat the Democrats, presumably Hillary Clinton of going into the White House. Also, he doesn't fare well among people who absolutely positively don't want him. There's a question asked in this poll, who would you absolutely rule out in 2016?
Donald Trump gets nearly a quarter of those respondents and nobody else comes close to that. So, it's very strong emotions on both sides when it comes to Donald Trump. No surprise there. But the other thing that we should underscore here is that these polls are an important barometer and important kind of marker for where we are right now. But a lot of it at this early stage is named I.D. And I mean, Donald Trump has his name on --
BASH: -- so many buildings, he's such -- he's so well branded. So, that there's no question is a big part of this.
BURNETT: There's no question is a big part for it. Of course, it could mean he's on front and center on that A level stage for those first debates.
BURNETT: Thank you so much, Dana.
BASH: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT now, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.
And, Mr. Trump, thanks so much for being with me.
When you break that poll down, you are polling number two among Republicans in New Hampshire. Does that surprise you?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): Well, people like my message. They want to see the United States do well again. We are being ripped off by every -- I mean, we are just being ripped off by every country we do business with. And, Erin, it's very sad to see what's happening.
BURNETT: On the economy and on trade, in that poll, you do come out on top, by far. Easily, you come out on top, Donald. But only 8 percent of voters say you have the personal characteristics and qualities a president should have, and 7 percent say you have the best chance to win versus the Democratic nominee. Those numbers are pretty grim.
TRUMP: Well, I think really a lot of people haven't heard the message. They haven't seen me. The fact is I do get along very well with people. I've built things and done things all over the world. I've made tremendous amounts of money.
You know, I've had an interesting life and I wouldn't mind keeping it going the way it's going. But I'm looking at what's going on, whether it's our southern border that's being so horribly -- I mean, just horribly violated or whether it's our trade deals with other countries. It's very sad what's going on.
BURNETT: So the only person running ahead of you in that poll, the overall number is Jeb Bush, OK? He's ahead of you by a few percentage points. He's been asked a lot about you, Donald. And here is what he has recently said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Donald Trump.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Rich guy.
REPORTER: Hey, Governor, Donald Trump yesterday said a lot of things. One of the things he said was he'd build this really big wall along the Mexican border.
REPORTER: Is that something that sounds rational or feasible to you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I don't know if you've seen that laugh, a little clip from Jeb Bush, but it's a dismissive look on his face. I mean, frankly, he's pretty dismissive of you, Donald.
TRUMP: I don't think he's dismissive at all. I think he's doing a good act. And, frankly, he's weak on immigration, which is a terrible thing. You remember his statement, they come to the country for love, and that was derided by everybody. He's very weak on immigration. And you have to be strong or we're not going to have a country left. You have to be very strong at the border. And he's also in favor of Common Core, which is education for Washington, D.C. In other words, let the bureaucrats educate your children.
I don't think he's dismissive at all. I think he wants to put on the act like he's dismissive. But if you look at the poll numbers, he better be careful.
BURNETT: Now, on immigration in the poll, that was an area of weakness for you. You've been widely criticized, Donald, as you know, for offending immigrants in your announcement speech. I want to just play again exactly what you said in that speech. Here you are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They aren't sending you. They aren't sending you. They are sending people that have lots of problems. And they are bringing those problems with us.
They are bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, you've tried to clarify this statement in recent days, Donald. But I guess the question comes down to this: do you regret saying that specifically about rapists or do you stand by it?
TRUMP: No, not at all. Of course, it's not only Mexico. If you let that run a little bit longer, it talks about people coming from all over. They are coming from all over. They'll soon be coming and probably have already been coming from all over the world.
You're probably going to have people -- you're probably going to have terrorists coming from the Middle East. Somebody said, oh, we don't have terrorists. They don't even know, because they don't know who is coming.
So, we have this open border. It's a sieve, like water pouring through, people coming in by the hundreds of thousands. We have no idea who is coming in.
And it's not just Mexicans, and I have a great relationship with Mexico and Mexicans. I have an absolutely great relationship. But we're not just talking about Mexico.
Now, Mexico is very smart. You know, Mexico makes it impossible -- it's one of the hardest nations in the world to become a citizen of, OK? But people run through Mexico, they go through our border like nothing. They end up -- we don't know who these people are.
But all you have to do is you should do a show from the border. Talk to the border security. You'll see the kind of people coming. You'll see the kind of crime that's being committed, and we're taking these people.
And, by the way, just to finish on that -- it's common sense. They don't want these people so they send them to the United States because the United States is run by stupid people. We have stupid leadership, we have incompetent leadership that doesn't know what it's doing. So, we take them. And, certainly, we have killers and other problems coming over.
[19:35:03] We take them because other countries don't want them to. We're like a dumping ground. The United States, Erin, is like a dumping ground for the world's problems.
So, absolutely, I wouldn't change that.
BURNETT: So, you absolutely wouldn't change it and specifically when you said they are rapists and some, I assume, are good people. But you don't have any regrets about that word "rapists".
TRUMP: Well, some are. Some are good, some are rapists and some are killers. And we don't know what we're getting.
They aren't just coming from Mexico. They are coming from all over. So, certainly, you know that's true. And from a common sense standpoint, you know that's true.
BURNETT: Donald, today, as you know, Univision cut ties with Miss Universe, which you partly own. They cited your insulting remarks. And "The Washington Free Beacon", I don't know if you saw this. They actually took something from Instagram that a Univision executive and it's a picture.
Let me describe it to you. Your face is on the left. The Charleston shooter's picture is on the right. So, it's the two of you in a split screen and the caption is, quote/unquote, "no comments".
What do you say to that?
TRUMP: I think it's disgraceful. And, by the way, they have a huge legal liability. You know, we're going to be suing them anyway. When he put that up, he then took it down. He's got tremendous liability.
Univision is very upset and probably not so upset to me because when they called me today, they were so apologetic. They call me up this morning, they were so apologetic.
They don't have the right to cancel this contract. They are in default. They've already -- they signed it in January. It's a five- year deal. They have no termination rights.
So, they're going to get a tremendous lawsuit for tremendous amounts of dollars and they understand that. When they called me this morning, they were apologizing because they know they don't have the right to do this. But they want to make sure that Mexico is happy. Mexico is not happy with me because I talk about the trade deals all the time.
BURNETT: So, the length of the board about 2,000 miles, right, 1,954. The General Accounting Office did an analysis about it five years ago, and they said their estimate of what a fence would cost is $3.9 million a mile. You know math, Donald, as well as anyone. That's $7.6 billion. You said Mexico would pay for that. Are you going to get them to pay $7.6 billion?
TRUMP: The answer is yes, I will get Mexico to pay because, frankly, they are taking so much money out of the United States hide. They are taking so much money from us. That's peanuts compare to the kind of money that you're talking about.
Plus, you don't need a wall for the entire piece because we have wonderful people, border patrol people, that can do the job. But you do need walls in certain sections, without question.
BURNETT: Donald, I want to get to the issue of your wealth. You said you're going to fund this campaign yourself. "Forbes" estimates your wealth at $4.1 billion. I have your disclosure sheet, the one that you released last week when you announced. That obviously puts the number at more than double, about $8.7 billion.
Are you going to release all the backup data to prove that number, your number, $8.7 billion in net worth?
TRUMP: Yes. I have to release tremendous amounts of information. I don't even know what it is, but it doesn't matter, because frankly I'm worth a tremendous amount. I've built a great company. I'm not doing that in a braggadocios way. I have to release numbers.
And I'm just saying that this is a kind of person you need to run this country. I built a great company. "Forbes" doesn't know, and I think they're very nice people. But they don't know what I have. I think it's fine.
And by the way, whether it's 4.1 or 10 or more than 10, it doesn't matter. You need that kind of a mindset to straighten out our country.
BURNETT: All right. Donald Trump, I appreciate your time tonight.
TRUMP: Thank you very much, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Our thanks to Donald Trump.
And next, a call to remove a church's stained glass windows because they show scenes from the Confederacy. Apple banning games that might offend people. Can removing Confederate symbols just go way too far?
Plus, two funerals today in South Carolina for the members of the AME Church. And this hour, a wake for the church's slain factor. We are live in Charleston. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, war against the Confederacy.
Apple pulling games from its App Store. The reason: they contained, quote, "images of the Confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways."
Today, the dean of the Washington National Cathedral saying it's time to remove two stained glass windows featuring the Confederate flag.
And in Baltimore, the mayor wants to rename Robert E. Lee Park named for the Confederate general.
In New Orleans, the mayor is calling for a removal of the statue of Lee and other divisive monuments.
And I want to bring OUTFRONT now, the mayor of New Orleans, Mitch Landrieu.
I appreciate your taking the time, Mayor Landrieu. It's good to talk you.
MAYOR MITCH LANDRIEU (D), NEW ORLEANS: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: You have said for months, this has been something you've been talking about for a while, that you want to replace that statue of Robert E. Lee and also one of Jefferson Davis. How come?
LANDRIEU: Well, first of all, the city of New Orleans is preparing for its 300th anniversary. And post-Katrina we said we'll build the city back, not the way it was, but the way it should have always been have we gotten it right the first time. And in that discussion, in the context of what's going on around the country in terms of difficult race relations, we think symbols matter here. And we want the symbols in the city to reflect really who New Orleans is historically, not just a small part of our history.
This is a divisive issue. I think the events of the last couple of few days bring that into sharper focus. And so, as a matter of racial reconciliation, as a matter of remembering the history of New Orleans as she really was, I think it's appropriate to have that discussion and I think the seminal places in this city which this statute is a part of needs really to reflect who we are as a people and not just a specific or narrow part of our past.
BURNETT: And, look, it's a fair point. Robert E. Lee, though, of course, he was a war hero, the superintendent of West Point well before the Confederate war. Lincoln actually offered Lee the command of the Union army, and then he chose to join the Confederacy and was its top general.
The point is, though, he's an important figure in American history beyond just the civil war. If you take that statue down, are you wiping out a part of American history? LANDRIEU: No. Well, first of all, there's no way you can wipe
away a part of our history. But there's a place for monuments like this and one of them is in the museum where you can remember it well.
And this really isn't about Robert E. Lee or really about the Confederacy. It's more about New Orleans, and how New Orleans sees itself.
[19:45:00] New Orleans sees herself with diversity is a strength, it's not a weakness. She sees itself as a unifying force in the nation and the world today, especially post-Katrina.
So, as we think about who we are as a people and what our history really is, we want to reflect that. Let me give you an example, the city of New Orleans was founded in 1718. We were here 150 years before the war even occurred.
LANDRIEU: And so, just because some people took a narrow part of a space in time and decided to reflect all of New Orleans, the people of New Orleans don't think that reflects who we really are as a people. The most sacred spaces in the city ought to be reserved for that. There are other places for General Lee and for other folks who fought in the civil war. We can remember it. We can't wash away it. But it needs to be in its appropriate place.
BURNETT: Are you worried when you hear about Apple and a stained glass window and now, the statue which you've been talking about for a while, I hear you. But in Baltimore, they are talking about a Robert E. Lee Park. Is this one spinning around desperately, let's get rid of everything that has to do with the Confederacy? But is it going too far?
LANDRIEU: That's for other people to decide. That really isn't what began our discussion, as you know. As we started preparing for the 300th anniversary of New Orleans many, many months ago, we began to have these discussions about symbols and whether they reflect who we are as people. This is about how New Orleans wants to represent herself to the rest of the country and the world.
And we're a place where we value culture, we value diversity and we actually value our real history and our deep history. And it should be reserved -- the big spaces in the city should be reserved for that, not for divisive figures. And everybody has got their place in history, but it's got to be the right place.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time, Mayor Landrieu.
LANDRIEU: Good to be with you.
BURNETT: And next, we're going to go live to Charleston where the wake for the leader of the AME Church is under way. At this moment, 2 of the 9 victims were buried in that church today.
[19:51:09] BURNETT: At this hour, honoring a slain pastor. The Charleston church, the site of a racist massacre last week, is holding a wake for its beloved leader. Reverend Clementa Pinckney is one of nine black people slaughtered in that church. Tomorrow, President Obama will be there, delivering the eulogy of Pinckney's funeral.
Don Lemon is OUTFRONT. He is there.
And, Don, the pastor at this moment, lying inside the church. Two other funerals today for other victims of the massacre. You are there, what is it like there?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is awfully quiet here now. It had been a little more jubilant, of course, tempered by sadness, people are paying their respects now. Bodies inside, so people are being respectful.
And we just got some new information. Officers came out moments ago before we came on the air, Erin, said this has been extended now until 9:00. Fraternity brothers are inside paying their respects.
The doors just opened them up. They were closed. People before they closed them, people had been streaming in.
I don't know if you can see, maybe tough to see. The line, there is a line back there that stretches for a block after block after block for people who are wanting to go inside.
It's been extended until 9:00. In order to get all the people inside it is really going to take probably a lot longer than that. I don't know if they will extend it beyond that.
We saw some of the family members leave a short time ago as well. But again there had been people singing as you know. You have been reporting on this for a week. People come out and they sing and they chant, and what have you. Not right now, since the body is inside. It's very quiet and somber, Erin.
BURNETT: And, Don, the president will be there tomorrow. This is going to be a very, very important eulogy for him. Speech might not be the right word, but the country will be listening.
LEMON: Yes, you know, the country will view it obviously as a eulogy and speech as well. It is.
The past couple weeks he has been dealing with a lot. He's been dealing with a lot of racial issues, of course, you know, saying it n- word in the podcast got a lot of attention. Some people felt he should have said it. Some felt he shouldn't.
But he's got a lot of attention on him. Of course, his trade deal now today he got, also health care being about. It's a big week for the president. And one we will see if he is going to tie some of it together. Maybe even tie, you know, equal rights for the LGBT community, since marriage is on the docket when it comes to the Supreme Court. So, everyone will be watching this tomorrow, Erin.
BURNETT: They certainly will. Thank you very much.
And Don Lemon will be there, for CNN.
Thank you, Don.
Next, a rock star caught up in the middle of an anti-Uber protest. Turned pretty ugly.
Jeanne Moos has the story.
[19:58:13] BURNETT: Rock star Courtney Love gets taken hostage and reacts as expected with true drama and angst.
Here is Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Usually photographers yell at Courtney Love.
PHOTOGRAPHER: Courtney, to your left!
MOOS: Not angry protesters.
But on a trip to France, she and other travelers got dragged into angry protests by taxi drivers against the less regulated service Uber. Uber vehicles were attacked. And Courtney Love ended up in one with an egg splattered window. She Instagramed, "all tires slashed and beat with bats. These guys trying to open the doors and the cops are doing nothing? I'm scared out of my wits."
Courtney eventually got into a second Uber vehicle. She tweeted they were held hostage for an hour. It wasn't exactly the star treatment.
COURTNEY LOVE, ROCK STAR: Do you know who you are talking to?
MOOS: But do you know who Courtney Love doesn't love at the moment? France's president.
"Francois Hollande," she tweeted, "where are the bleeping police, get your bleep to the airport."
"This is France? I'm safer in Baghdad," she tweeted.
But Courtney didn't walk out of the mess in Paris. She jumped on a motorcycle. "Paid some guys on motorcycles to sneak us out. Got chased by a mob of taxi drivers who threw rocks."
Courtney Love escaping a mob on a motorcycle. That's a little uber the top.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
BURNETT: And thank you so much for joining us. Be sure to set your DVR, you can record the show at any time. Thanks so much for watching.
"AC360" starts with Anderson Cooper right now.