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New York Fugitive Richard Matt Shot Dead by Police; President Barack Obama Gives Pinckney Eulogy; Mourners Cheer as President Names Victims of Church Massacre; White House Lit Rainbow Colors to Celebrate Supreme Court Gay Marriage Decision. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 26, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Thank you, Anderson. It's 10 p.m. here in Charleston. On an extraordinary day here for America, this is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
Our breaking news, manhunt, escapee Richard Matt is dead. Now, officers are pursuing fugitive David Sweat. We're going to the scene for you. This, on the day the Supreme Court changed the lives of millions of gay Americans ruling same-sex couples can be legally married in every one of the 50 states.
The White House tonight lit up in rainbow colors to celebrate. In New York, the spire of one World Trade Center also lit up tonight. This is also the day that President Obama came here to Charleston to deliver a eulogy that turned into a moving sermon on race and the power of faith. We're going to play it for you in its entirely tonight. So, make sure you stay tuned.
But let's begin with that manhunt in upstate New York. CNN's Alexandra Field is live for us in Malone, New York. Also Polo Sandoval is in Lake Titus on the other side of the perimeter where the search for David Sweat is heating up.
I want to begin with you, Alex. You know, we heard from Governor Cuomo not that long ago who said that they don't have confirmation of David Sweat's whereabouts. So, what do you know about this search?
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPODENT: Right, Don. They haven't had a sighting, and yet law enforcement remains in confident and optimistic. That he remains in the area. They set up a very tight perimeter and they believe that they could use that perimeter to close in on him. They say there's simply no reason not to believe that he was not with Richard Matt when they closed in on Matt earlier this afternoon.
But, again, no sighting of him tonight. That said, they're deploying a tremendous amount of resources with the goal of making a capture tonight. We have seen countless police vehicles move through this area. Most of them heading south. The other side of Titus Mountain toward the lake. The area where they believed that David Sweat could be.
We're also seeing helicopters that are up in the air. And, tonight, they will rely on thermal imaging to hopefully bring them a little bit closer to the fugitive who is still on the run tonight. LEMON: Stand by, Alexandra. Polo, you know, you're on the other of the
state force from Alex, what's happening where you are?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPODENT: I'll tell you what, Don, just a few moments ago, we actually watched these funeral services, pretty much a hearse just drive right buy this passed by roadblock that's been set up here in upstate New York. We can only assume that they are making their way towards the crime to basically remove the body of Richard Matt here in a few moments now.
So, basically and essentially, what you just heard a few moments ago from Alexandra is that authorities are very confident that they're closing in on David Sweat. And now, that it's night time here in upstate New York, I can tell you that that searches is only going to intensify. We lost count of the number of generator flood lights that basically have driven passed us now. The indication that the authorities will be working throughout the night here.
Now, as for the people who live in the few homes that with the very rough and rugged landscape here, some individuals are simply too scared knowing that at least one of these fugitives is still on the run. I spoke to one individual who simply packed up. He said he's going to go home or stay with a friend for tonight along with his fiance.
Then you have some other individuals too, Don. This woman, in particular, who wants to get to her home just a few blocks down this road here beyond the police barricades. She's going to try to take some side roads because she wants to get her dogs.
So, again, two separate stories here involving the people impacted by this while the search for this very dangerous individual still continues to intensify. These are cop killers so investigators are moving forward very consciously.
LEMON: Thank you very much for that, Polo and to Alexandra Field as well. Joining me now is Clinton County Sheriff David Favro. Sheriff, good evening. Thank you for joining us here. I know that you're very busy. But what can you tell us about this perimeter around fugitive David Sweat?
DAVID FAVRO, CLINTON COUNTY SHERIFF: It's very tight. Again, there's an awful lot of law enforcement effort that is up in that area. We're concentrating on this particular section and hoping that we can bring this to a close for everybody's sake.
LEMON: Night has fallen now. So, how is that going to affect the search effort? I know there were some concerns about looking for them at night because they were dangerous. Is that the same now with just one person out there? How does this affect the search?
FAVRO: The approach for the search isn't really going to change an awful lot. We're going to be considering him as being armed and we certainly know that he's dangerous. With the night fall, we're not going anywhere. We're bringing in, as was stated, many generators, many lights. We have a strong perimeter set up. We're going to continue the search for as long as it takes to bring this case to a close.
[22:05:04] LEMON: Our reporter just said on CNN that Richard Matt's body is still in the woods. Can you tell us about that? Is it still in the woods?
FAVRO: I'm not up there right now. So, I wouldn't be able to comment on that. Of course, it's going to be a process. It's part of a scene. So, they're going to want to do photographs and gather some additional information prior to being able to actually remove it. But I'm not up there. So, I couldn't tell you exactly where it lies right now.
LEMON: So, sheriff, Richard Matt was shot and killed by an officer out there, he shot at driver and a camper. Tell us what you know about the encounter?
FAVRO: Well, I've been made aware that there was a gentleman that was driving his camper, may have thought he had a flat tire or something, pulled over to check it. Notice that he had a gunshot hole in the side of his camper. Notified 911 very quickly, which resulted in immediate response of law enforcement contingent. He was spotted and he was shot brought down.
LEMON: And sheriff, tell us about the tips that law enforcement got today because there were a number of them.
FAVRO: We really need to thank the public because the public has been a great partner with our law enforcement since the day one. We want to continue that appeal, as well. We still have one very dangerous fugitive that's out there. He's younger. He's a little bit more agile.
So, we need to make sure that the public is listening, the public is watching and that they're reporting everything to 911 and to the law enforcement agencies immediately. The timeliness of you reports are very critical. Sometimes people waiting three or four minutes can make a big difference for us.
So, very quickly reporting what you see and what you hear is going to be a key to the success of bringing this individual down, as well.
LEMON: Sheriff, do you think they'll take him in tonight?
FAVRO: I certainly hope so. The community has been great. The law enforcement effort has been exemplary. And we're certainly going to continue as long as it takes but I think everybody is hopeful and we're going to put forth 100 percent effort until we can complete our mission.
LEMON: I appreciate your time Sheriff David Favro. Joining me now is John Walsh. John Walsh he's a host of CNN's The Hunt. He's on the phone right now. So, John, listening, you heard what I said, my conversation with the sheriff there. Authorities have gotten one man so far. I asked the sheriff, you know, if they think they'll get him tonight? How long do you think it will take them to get that second man?
JOHN WALSH, THE HUNT SHOW HOST: Well, I hope it's very soon, Don. You know, you and I talked at the beginning of this hunt. And we talked about I believed he was still in the areas that he would go into a summer home or a hunting camp which he did. And that they didn't have the resources that people thought they would have.
They weren't gangs up. They weren't involved with the cartel; they didn't have help from the outside. So, you and I talked about it. Them being close. And I believe that David Sweat is close. It was a glorious day today that Matt was taken down. He didn't kill anybody. He didn't rape anybody. Because when they get to the end of the run, they get very, very dangerous.
And that's what I would think David Sweat is right now. So, I caution people that are still in the area. If you have security alarms, put them on. If you don't, go stay at somebody's house because I'm sure David Sweat is incredibly desperate right now. And, you know, he'll be out all night. And don't -- I haven't heard anybody mention the fact that most police helicopters have fleer, Don.
And that is electromagnetic radiation where they can pick up a two degree temperature of a living thing underneath a car, inside of a house. Police use it all the time. I've ridden with law enforcement for years when they've caught fugitives that have been running through the ghetto, hiding under cars, people that have robbed banks and got under houses.
So, I hope that David Sweat goes down tonight. But people have got to realize, this guy is extremely dangerous. He is probably armed; they probably got guns in those hunting camps. And the public is the key to this. You and I talked about. If you see anything tonight, pick up the phone, be aware, and make the call.
LEMON: So, you said he's desperate and that he's even more dangerous now that he's desperate. But what happens when, you know, the infrared and the device that can pick up temperature. So, what happens now? Does that mean that they take everyone out of the woods who may be looking for him? What do they be doing the people who are searching for him, what happens tonight?
WALSH: Now, they know what they're looking for. They'll go in segments. They'll fly those helicopters back and forth over areas with that fleer device to look for some type of thermal imaging some electromagnetic radiation.
[22:09:57] Now, when they were hunting for Eric Rudolph in the hills in North Carolina and he stayed for years, they picked up bears and raccoons, and wolf, and different things. Coyotes that were in those woods, not wolves, but coyotes. And they have to eliminate them.
But you know, David Sweat might in a camping in a camp right as we are speaking and watching television. And I have -- I hope he knows one thing. The cops that are looking for him know that he ruthlessly brutally shot a fellow law enforcement officer 22 times. They know that that wasn't enough that they back -- that he had to run over this guy with this victim cop with a car.
So, they're going to be looking for any excuse to light up David Sweat. To shoot David Sweat. If he's watching this, he ought to take his shirt off, take every strip down to his underwear and come out with his hands up. Because it's going to be a very ugly takedown when they finally catch this guy.
But I think they're going to get him tonight. I think that they're going to figure out where he is look for more night, time is on the side of law enforcement. He's got nowhere to go. He's got to be really desperate. He's got to be scared as hell. He's got to be dehydrated and hungry. And if he doesn't give up, because I believe he's a coward. He probably will give up. Matt was an associate that he was going to give up.
He was going to shoot it out or get shoot by cops. But David Sweat might give himself up. I don't think he'll shoot it out with cops. He's not going to have a chance. But I think tonight for this guy I'm praying that he doesn't hurt anybody. That he doesn't decide to carjack somebody. He doesn't decide to use someone as a hostage. I say to everybody just watching this show, Don, anybody in the area, please, be on red alert tonight because this guy is dangerous.
LEMON: All right. You heard it from John Walsh host of The Hunt here on CNN. John, thank you very much. I'm going to bring in Chris Swecker now. The former assistant director of the FBI. He led the FBI team that capture Eric Rudolph, the man who bombed the 1996 Atlanta Summer Olympic Games. Retired U.S. Marshal Billy Sorukas.
So, I have to ask you, Chris, do you agree with John Walsh? Do you think he'll give himself up tonight?
CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Yes, I've been thinking about that tonight, Don. And my assessment is, yes. He's got a decision to make. And I don't agree that they're going to get him tonight. I think he's going to wait the night out. I think he's going to get much sleep and he may haven't getting some sleep because they were probably taking turns taking watch. So, they probably been getting sleep over the last 18 days. Well, tonight, he's not going to get any. And he's got a tough decision to make. My prognosis is he'll give himself up.
LEMON: Yes. Billy, he's a cop killer, I mean, he may not have any qualms about taking out other police officers.
BILY SORUKAS, RETIRED U.S. MARSHAL: Well, that's true. And if he has had opportunity he may do so. But I don't think at this point they're positive that he has a firearm. I think if they do encounter him the first thing that will probably happen is they'll try to engage him verbally and give him certain commands. If that doesn't work one of the options they may have rather than rushing him is to send a k-9 in to search him out and take him down from that point.
LEMON: Yes. So, Matt was armed. You think Sweat is armed, right, Billy?
SORUKAS: Well, they have to assume that he is armed at this point. And they have since the very beginning. But the events in the cabin where they have broken in possibly got weapons that just enhances law enforcement awareness and the possibility they may be armed. But they have assumed that he's dangerous and armed from the very beginning since they've both escape.
LEMON: Chris, if he's alive, what information do you think that they'll need to get out of him? Who helped him and beyond that what?
SWECKER: Yes. I mean, the question will be do they have any leverage on him? I mean, what deal can they cut to him that would get him to talk. I think they like to take them alive. I think they'd like to get as much as they can out of him, find out if there's other guards, find out what's been happening over the last five years frankly. Because it sounds like a lot has been going on in that prison and he might be the key to learning it along with the inspector general's investigation. But they -- I think they very much like to talk to him just question whether he's willing.
LEMON: Billy Sorukas and Chris Swecker, thanks to both of you, gentlemen.
you know, we've got a lot more to come on our breaking news in the manhunt in upstate New York. The fugitive Richard Matt is dead and David Sweat being pursued.
Plus, a day for the history books. From the Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage to President Obama at the funeral of Reverend Clementa Pinckney leading mourners in amazing grace. That and more when we come right back here on CNN Tonight.
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Back now live from Charleston where President Obama give a heartfelt eulogy for the Reverend Clementa Pinckney who was killed in the church massacre. I want to get to that in a moment.
But first, I want the get back to our breaking news now. One escaped murdered in upstate New York shot and killed by officers. The second fugitive being pursued tonight.
I want to bring in now Duane 'Dog' Chapman, the bounty hunter from CMT's Dog and Beth: On the hunt. He joins me on the phone. Dog, good to speak with you again this evening. You were in Malone, as a matter of fact. The governor says they have a few leads, but nothing to confirm where David Sweat is. What are you hearing?
DUANE 'DOG' CHAPMAN, CMT'S THE BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, we're hearing that he's allegedly still on the run also. You know, as you reported very good reporting that, you know, Ricky "The rat" is deceased and did not drop weapon and officers open on him.
[22:20:04] What a great, let me tell you, you know, the sheriff, they knew that the fugitives have some kind of communication and was listening to ground communication because they'd stolen radios. So, earlier today, the sheriff had announced that they were kind of giving up the search that they had went to Canada.
And I thought, you know what, that kind of when we lie to our people, you know, they say, they go, oh, you lied to me, Dog. You said, it's through this map. Well, you lied to me, you said you'd go to court. And we -- Beth and I was figuring, you know what, that sheriff is trying to get them to come out. Within one hour, they came out of their hiding space. So, what a tremendous, you know, well, I don't want to call it a scam, but what a tremendous thing the sheriff did. We're kind of back him off...
LEMON: Strategy. Strategy.
CHAPMAN: Isn't that great?
LEMON: Yes. Yes, well, it's interesting because I was out here reporting earlier and when that press conference happened. I heard people around me saying, you know what, why are they letting them know what they're doing? What are they telling them that they're looking for them in Canada? They should be keeping that information a secret. In the back of my head, I said I think this is a ploy. That they don't actually think that because they would never forecast to someone where they think they're going.
CHAPMAN: Exactly right. But the fugitives didn't realize that because they've, you know, 21 days, they've been hiding during the day. And, as they found now, they've been moving at night. So, soon as the sheriff said, you know, we're kind of we're not giving up but we realize they went to Canada, the fugitives got relaxed right then.
Because they heard all the officers roll it in, pull it up, you know, stand down. We think they're gone. And low and behold, they came out. Incredible. You know, and these are masters' degree in criminals. These are master's degree in criminal. This is what happens in a masters' degree.
CHAPMAN: One day after his birthday, he's dead.
LEMON: I want to ask you about this great flavor, gin, Dog. Because the Malone resident called the cops today when he got to his cabin and he found a bottle of grape flavored gin on the table. He said he didn't think he left it out. He remembers leaving it out. How big of a tip was that?
CHAPMAN: Well, you know, we had heard that Ricky did not do drugs because he was incarcerated, but he drank a lot of alcohol. So, that fit his M.O. perfectly. Absolutely perfect. And then they had samples of his number two, you know what I mean? So, they had him. I mean, they were just closing in on him. You know, a thousand cops. I mean, it's just an incredible job that these guys did. You know, these guys we were on the outside looking in and I, in 35 years, have never seen such an amazing, incredible, incredible capture, arrest.
LEMON: So let me...
CHAPMAN: In fact, the -- go ahead. LEMON: Let me ask you about, do you think that they will catch him
tonight? I've been asking all of the law enforcement that I've had on tonight. Do you think he'll turn himself in, if he should, and do you think they will get him tonight, how long?
CHAPMAN: Well, you know, I'm not sure that they don't already have him. You know, truthfully, in my heart, I don't think that the public is aware, but I think, you know, things have kind of relaxed. We heard some guns, pop, pop, pop, we heard some shots and then we heard another set of shots and now it's kind of calmed down.
So, allegedly, he's not in custody. But I think, you know, it's time now that the sheriff doesn't have to tell all of us everything because now they have to go to work on the internal. They need to find out what guard, you know, that pipe was touch from the outside in.
They need to find out what guard did that, who's not that there's a lot of things that happened being answered. And, of course, Sweat will talk. They'll sweat it out of him. If that's what it take. They need to talk to him. They need to be private with him. I believe that, if they don't have him right now, I don't think before the sun rises, that he'll still be a free, wanted man. I think he will be in federal state custody.
LEMON: Duane "Dog" Chapman. Duane, I was wondering why you said allegedly he's not in custody because you think they have them and then just not giving it to us. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.
We're going to bring you the latest developments on the hunt for David Sweat as they happen. But, up next, President Barack Obama's very powerful eulogy for Charleston pastor, Clementa Picnkney. He spoke about race, the Confederate Flag, and he led the mourners in an emotional rendition of Amazing Grace.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're back now live in Charleston. Our breaking news tonight, one of the escaped murderers in New York shot and killed by officers today. The second fugitive being pursued right now. We're going to bring you the latest developments as they come in. But, meanwhile, here in Charleston, President Obama gave a powerful and in passion eulogy today for the Reverend Clementa Pinckney who was killed in the church massacre.
Joining me now to discuss this CNN's Martin Savidge. Martin, you were inside today, you get to witness a history a very emotional, powerful, moving eulogy by the president.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was this time yesterday we were trying to figure out what exactly might the president speak about.
SAVIDGE: We knew that it was going to be of course, the reverend but we wondered other issues. We talked about race, we talked about gun violence. There was a whole litany of other things that the president was able to bring forward in that eulogy. I was writing -- I couldn't keep up, even though I was writing as fast as I could. One of the other issues that he touched on? The Confederate Flag.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRSEIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: As we all had to acknowledge the flag has always represented more than just ancestral pride.
[22:29:52] OBAMA: For many, black and white, that flag was a reminder of systemic oppression and racial subjugation. We see that, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
OBAMA: Removing the flag from the state's capitol would not be an act of political correctness. It would not be an insult to the valor of confederate soldiers. It would simply be an acknowledgement that the cause for which they fought, the cause of slavery was wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That remarkably well-delivered by the president there and...
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: And finally written.
SAVIDGE: Yes. And, you know, he had been working on all week long according to his aide. In fact, when he got the word of the Supreme Court ruling today he was still working on that eulogy. So, I think it was quite a phenomenal speech.
And, remember, it wasn't just a course for those who were gathered there for the funeral. You had a large contingent of republican and democrats both on the state and federal level. And you had two presidential candidates, as well.
LEMON: As we were listening just now, I think you hit it on the -- you didn't tell our audience that he was walking through a political mindful. I think that the way he handled it I thought it was very elegantly.
SAVIDGE: It was really was done well very, very well. He's a good speaker anyway. But the way he delivers the words he chose outstanding today.
LEMON: There was the...
SAVIDGE: It was. There was a candor there. There was frankness there. And we've already talked about this. You know, we've seen a very significant change since the first. First, he talked about the issue of race. But, on every note that he talked about, he really delivered it with a way that you knew this was from the heart. Not necessarily from the political head.
SAVIDGE: But from the heart. He is speaking in a way that we have not heard before and it was clear that those gathered they love every bit of it.
LEMON: Yes. And the people watching at home. Thank you, Martin Savidge, I appreciate that. As President Barack Obama was finishing his eulogy. The mourners stood clapping and cheering as the president named each of the victims of the church massacre individually declaring that each had God's grace.
I'm going to talk to the family of some of the people who were -- of one of the persons who was involved in this. Reverend Daniel Simmons, Sr., was one of the victims in this. You guys, come on in here. I'm so happy that you were here. Alana, we talked about your campaign. It's called the 'Hate won't win campaign. So, thank you for joining us. Alana is here, Daniel is here. Who else do I have here with me?
ALANA SIMMONS, GRANDDAUGHTER OF DANIEL SIMMONS SR.: This is Ava.
A. SIMMONS: And Anya.
LEMON: Thank you, guys. You might not, but you can nod up and down. You speak really loudly. You guys, how are you guys able to smile now and laugh and carry on?
A. SIMMONS: Well, my mom went over this quote with dad and said that, God allows what he hates to accomplish what he loves." And we just kind of kept that in the forefront of our minds it's been inspiring as well as the families of the other victims. They've been very inspiring.
LEMON: Yes. The president I think spoke like he had never spoken before. Did you get that?
A. SIMMONS: Yes.
DANIEL SIMMONS III, GRANDSON OF DANIEL SIMMONS SR.: Yes.
LEMON: Why do you agree with that?
A. SIMMONS: It was -- well, he's already eloquent. But it was a very eloquent, it was very heartfelt. It wasn't really political. We just really appreciated how inspiring it was.
LEMON: Yes. What do you think?
D. SIMMONS: I totally agree with what she said. You can tell it was heartfelt. You know, he already spoke from the heart. He spoke what he meant, you know. Even when he started singing. He broke out with Amazing Grace, huh.
A. SIMMONS: He did good.
LEMON: What did you say? They'll freak out there in the control room. What did you think that?
AVA SIMMONS, GRANDDAUGHTER OF DANIEL SIMMONS SR.: I thought it was awesome. I think it was, let me see, it came out of nowhere.
A. SIMMONS: He's not going to see.
AVA SIMMONS: It came out of nowhere. And the fact that they sung it like four hours before, it just felt like they needed to sing it again. Because that's what everybody was feeling. It was peaceful. It was warmth. It was so comfortable.
D. SIMMONS: Yes.
LEMON: What do you think?
ANYA SIMMONS, GRANDDAUGHTER OF DANIEL SIMMONS SR.: I think it was not very unexpected of him. But I personally love it because I do love that song. And to see him sing it was very, I guess welcoming like I know that he loved that song, too. So, everybody just joined in.
LEMON: Do you think that this hit because I've spoken to a number of different people. And they were, like, well, the president has spoken before. Do you think this hit black folks differently than it hit because it was kind of like going to a black church on Sunday?
A. SIMMONS: Not necessarily. I think it hit everyone the same.
D. SIMMONS: Yes.
A. SIMMONS: Everyone who was there enjoyed it, black, white, whatever denomination they were, whatever age they were, whatever anything that they were. Everyone there was very, very touched.
LEMON: He paid -- I think gave honor to your grandfather?
A. SIMMONS: Yes, he did.
D. SIMMONS: Yes.
ANYA SIMMONS: Yes.
[22:34:55] A. SIMMONS: And that's why we came up with this campaign, the Hate won't win campaign. And basically, what it is, it's a challenge where kind of like the ice bucket challenge where we're challenging society to change itself. What we want them to do is we want them to go out and show an act of love to someone who is different from them.
LEMON: Can I show this tweet?
A. SIMMONS: Yes, please. LEMON: OK. This is a tweet of the president and the First Lady. It looks like it's on Air Force One. There they are holding the shirt and doing the heart. That is on that you're wearing.
A. SIMMONS: Yes.
LEMON: Did you know that this was going to happen?
ANYA SIMMONS: They said...
A. SIMMONS: We asked them to. Yes. And asked them.
AVA SIMMONS: And then he asked is there anything that we can do for your family, and I was like, yes. You can help us promote our challenge because we really want to get everyone involved. And he said, well, I have a couple followers. So, we really appreciated it.
LEMON: And then when he you saw it?
AVA SIMMONS: We were elated to say the least.
A. SIMMONS: Because we knew that if he did this so many people follow him that we will get so many people involve and possibly change some hearts out here.
LEMON: Why hate won't win? Why is that? Why don't you, that's just it, why aren't you mad? Why aren't you upset? Why aren't you -- why do you want hate not to win?
D. SIMMONS: Our grandfather would have wanted it.
D. SIMMONS: Our grandfather was a strong man. He was a loving man and he cared about his community. If he was here right now, he will be proud.
ANYA SIMMONS: He gives love. He preaches it.
D. SIMMONS: Yes.
A. SIMMONS: And if we were to be angry about anything? Or if we were hold hatred in our heart, he wouldn't have that and neither would the God that we serve.
LEMON: I can only imagine how proud your grandfather would be. He's looking down I think he's very proud of you. Thank you.
D. SIMMONS: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you.
A. SIMMONS: Thank you for having us.
LEMON: Thank you for promoting and preaching peace.
ANYA SIMMONS: Thank you.
AVA SIMMONS: Thank you.
LEMON: And love and not hate. Thank you. Hate won't win.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hate won't win.
LEMON: You're not even going to the microphone while we're talking and we're not going to let the -- not having the microphone stop us. Thank you, guys.
A. SIMMONS: Thank you, Don Lemon.
LEMON: We're going to have to continue on with this. We have the latest on the manhunt. And by the way, I should say that speech that you just heard from President Obama, parts of it, we're going to play it in its entirety at midnight eastern. Midnight Easter in it's entirely. So, if you didn't see it, you make sure you tune into that.
For the latest on the man hunt and, also, we'll bring you that and talk about what the president had to say. Will that usher in a new era of change? We'll be right back.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. I just want to say before the break I misspoke, we're going to repeat the entire speech at 11 p.m. Easter, 11 p.m. Easter till midnight. And we'll be on until midnight on this particular program.
But here in Charleston, President Barack Obama delivered the eulogy today at the funeral for Reverend Clementa Pinckney and surprise the assemble mourners when he launch into a solo of Amazing Grace. So, I want you to listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Van Jones is here, CNN political commentator. Sunny Hostin is here, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, and Bakari Sellers, former South Carolina state representative and friend of Reverend Clementa Pinckney. That was my grandmother's favorite song.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
LEMON: If that came on, she shouted.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Come on.
JONES: Everybody shouted.
LEMON: Yes, everybody shouted. The person went one way and, you know.
HOSTIN: I mean, I caught myself singing with an action that sing.
LEMON: I would go sing.
HOSTIN: But I think we all were just so caught up in the moment. I don't know if that was planned by the president, but, my goodness, it just struck the right tone. It was unbelievable.
LEMON: You're right, Sunny. Van and I sitting for con, who is this guy? Who is this? Seriously?
JONES: I mean, well, first of all, he was speaking and the organist started coming.
LEMON: Right. And then the...
JONES: Also it was like, this is the minister in chief. You know, I've never seen an American president ever one time speak Bill Clinton. When the organist had to jump in and add the sauce, so that's when you knew that we're completely different tone.
BAKARI SELLERS, FRIEND OF CLEMENTA PINCKNEY: They were calling him the reverend president.
HOSTIN: Yes, they were. Yes, they were.
SELLERS: And even if he missed the note, we were there to take him hold.
SELLERS: So, everybody, we were gathering, we were cheering, we were crying, and we were praising. He had a heck of a worship service today. He really did.
HOSTIN: And I think what was so interesting was, remember, we were in an arena, right? We weren't even in a church. But initially one of the pastors said...
JONES: Reverend Goff.
HOSTIN: Referend Goff -- that we are making this into a sanctuary.
HOSTIN: And it really became that sanctuary. I mean, I cried, which is something, you know, I'm kind of hard core I banned, note, I don't cry easy.
JONES: I'm hardest.
LEMON: Two things, I've never seen the president been gasping (ph). I've never seen you cry. So, you don't scratch that either.
HOSTIN: Yes. We are standing here across from a massacre. We needed a different kind of leadership.
JONES: I think what you needed that because we are standing here across from a massacre.
JONES: That's what so difficult. We are on this emotional roller coaster where you have literally a massacre, a racist cherished massacre. There was heartbreak of that. And yet, the joy hasn't been stolen from this community.
JONES: And so, people needed that a different kind of leadership that we've ever seen from a U.S. President and he gave it to us.
LEMON: Can I ask you this because he had to walk a political tight rope. Because he talked about gun control. He talked about Confederate Flag. He talked about the racism. He talked about other -- are you worried about how he will be criticized? As a matter of fact, I don't think he really cares anymore.
HOSTIN: Is he really running, you know, walking this tight rope? I don't think so. He's got nothing to lose. He said he had that list that rhymes with bucket. And I think we saw that today, right? He is I think the most authentic we've seen him be.
LEMON: He also said he's fearless in that thought.
[22:45:04] SELLERS: But he also spoke to a different audience today. Because what this event did is it softened the heart of the American public and its toned down the tenor of the rank or of the political dialogue that we've been having.
So, with this soft parts and people willing to listen today, I think he's going to get a better response than people can imagine because that Amazing Grace, I'm talking about the grace that these non-victims have as we are actually still here while they are viewing Cynthia Hurd's body, I mean, this is still very fresh, very new.
And the president hit the tone that he had to, maybe not singing but he definitely hit the tome that he had to.
LEMON: Why your initial response be?
JONES: I was concerned because there has been a way that this president has been racially guarded. When he was running, you know, his first book was about race...
LEMON: Yes, stand by, stand by, and pause on that, before you finish...
LEMON: ... we have a mutual friend. And I think it was in a joking manner.
LEMON: But, you know, sometimes, the truth is spoken in jest and she said, you guys are scaring white people right now.
JONES: Right. Because we were in the aftermath of the president's speech and the president's words, there is a way that most African- American professionals keep a certain kind of guard up. It's a certain way that we...
HOSTIN: It's a cover.
JONES: ... it's a cover that we want to be seen a certain way. We don't want to be seen as too black, we don't want to be seen as too angry and so, the certain guard...
LEMON: And use for exactly bad into the president.
JONES: And this president has been the master of that. In some ways he's been the architect of that. And yet, that guard came down. And when I saw that guard come down and some of the things he would sing the rhythm, the intonation, the passion, I was like, oh, my God, he is showing his true self.
JONES: And I got afraid. I did not have confidence in the country or the president to do it, and yet he still pulled it off.
SELLERS: But he came in with such swagger. And, I mean, to catch off, he came in clapping as we were singing the gospel hymn. And one of the most amazing things that happened, and not many people will able see at home, is that Senator Pinckney's youngest daughter, her eyes were fixated on that man. Her eyes were fixated on that man that is Barack Obama. So, there were so many hearts and minds that he touched. And it was just an amazing, amazing...
LEMON: I've got to get to a break. We were going to run his entirety and you guys are going to be here and we're going to talk about it. But just quickly, just yes or no, was this different?
LEMON: Was it different this time?
HOSTIN: Absolutely. JONES: This is a completely different Barack Obama.
LEMON: OK. Thank you very much. Stand by everyone.
When we come right back, another huge story to talk about. The Supreme Court decision today, right? Gay couples across the country celebrating tonight. Suze Orman weighs in next.
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LEMON: The gay in its chorus and you're looking at the White House lit up in rainbow colors tonight to celebrate the Supreme Court's decision on same-sex marriage. And you're hearing the gay's in its chorus of Washington, D.C. singing the National Anthem. Amazing.
Joining me now, Suze Orman, honorary chair for the Freedom to Marry National Campaign Council. You can't help but smile today, Susie. I'm so happy for you, for K.T. and for everyone. Really not just LGBT. Americans but for all Americans. How are you doing?
SUZE ORMAN, FREEDOM TO MARRY NATIONAL CAMPAIGN COUNCIL HONORARY CHAIR: You know, I'm sitting here and I'm listening to that music and it's like, everything I have to contain myself because it's our national anthem now. We have the exact same freedom. This is our time, Don. And K.T. is standing right over there and, really, all day today.
LEMON: Hi, K.T.
ORMAN: From beyond to beyond with everybody. Don, says, hi, K.T.
LEMON: K.T. is your lovely wife. You guys married in South Africa, it was back in 2010, right?
ORMAN: We did. It was September 8, 2010. It was so fascinating that in South Africa, it was just marriage. There was no gay marriage, straight marriage, it was just marriage. And we were able to get married and to think that now, as of today, that's going to be true is beyond the beyond, you know, gay marriage is over. It's now just marriage. Everywhere, Don.
LEMON: It's just marriage.
ORMAN: But, you know, there's a lot of -- there's two really three big financial wins here for everybody and every state. So, people should be so happy, I can't even tell you.
LEMON: So, tell me, how is it important when it comes to marriage. Financially, why is it so important?
ORMAN: So your first big one here, everybody, one income tax return. While it was true on the federal level that it was accepted, if you happen to live in one of those states and you were married, that it wasn't legal, you had to file a joint federal tax return and a single income tax return for the state. Number two, a estate taxes. The wins are case was all about federal laws on the state level for federal.
But if you live in one of those states and you were married you would still has to say a state taxes, if you had money, on the state level and last but not the least, did you know that social security as well as your VA benefits were based on the state laws that you lived.
So, federal, it was great. But if you live in one of those states, you won't be able to collect social security or your VA benefits if your spouse happens to die. Those are three huge things, Don. Huge things.
LEMON: Yes. And that is not equal rights under the Constitution. It's not equal rights under the Constitution.
LEMON: And you know...
ORMAN: It is now, though. It is now, sir. It's, you know, there aren't enough words. I've been getting e-mails, thousands of posts, everything saying we're all equal. We're equal. You know?
[22:55:00] And I only wish my mom were here to see this today, you know. She died about three years ago. And, if she could only see that it was accepted everywhere, I think she would have felt better about everything in her life. Because, you know, she still had a hard time, Don, that I was gay.
LEMON: So, you know, haven't we all been there in some way? Let's talk honestly. We're around the same age. And when I grew up, and even coming out, you know, in my 20s and 30s, I never thought marriage was even ever a possibility for me. I never fathom that it was this is my friend. This is my roommate. Now you can say, or, this is my partner, you know, as time moved along. But now you can say this is my husband, this is my wife. That's huge.
ORMAN: But, you know, what's interesting about that is I think all the gay people have to get used to using that terminology.
ORMAN: Now It's strange to be able to say this is my wife, this is my husband, this is spouse. We're so used to, you know, you say we're around the same age. I think I'm a little bit older, but you say we have to get used to the terminology. But, you know what, it's going to be a great terminology to get used to boyfriend.
LEMON: I got to go and you give K.T a big hug and a kiss for me. And I'll see you guys soon.
ORMAN: I'll give her a big hug. I'll give you a big hug and kiss.
LEMON: Thank you Suze for joining us. ORMAN: All right, Don, see you soon, sweetheart.
LEMON: Thank you. See you. Thank you.
ORMAN: All right, bye, bye.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
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