Return to Transcripts main page

WOLF

Sweat Speaking to Authorities; Joe Biden Run for President; GOPs on Same-Sex Marriage. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 29, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 P.M. here in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.

And let's get right to breaking news.

On the end of the fugitive manhunt in Upstate New York, here you can see an injured David Sweat, the escaped inmate was brought down by a Law New York State trooper.

We're now learning that Sweat was on his own for several days before a fellow fugitive Richard Matt was gunned down.

[13:00:05] Source close to the investigation tell CNN, Sweat has told authorities Matt was slowing him down. But while the chase is now over many questions remain. Questions like, how did Sweat evade capture for 23 days. Did he have help? And how exactly did he break out of prison?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES GUESS, MAJOR, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: I'm told that he's talking a bit. Obviously he's in the care of medical professionals and their priority is to save his life.

We hope that he continues to talk. Our investigators are very keenly interested in what he might have to say not only as it pertains to his escape in the Department of Corrections. Of course, we'd follow-up on that. But from my perspective, how he managed to elude capture for the last 23 days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We're covering all angles on the story. Our Polo Sandoval is near the Canadian Border, where Sweat was captured.

Jean Casarez is over at the courthouse where a guard from the prison that Sweat, Richard Matt broke out of, will face charges related to the escape.

And own Sara Ganim is outside the hospital where officials are talking to David Sweat. Sarah, what do we know right now about Sweat's condition and what he is telling authorities?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey and good afternoon Wolf. So first, the condition was updated just about an hour ago from critical, which is where he came in last night an incredible condition, too serious.

A hospital official saying that, his wounds did not require surgery. But he will be staying here and we'll be monitored for a few more days.

Now, he is apparently talking to authorities. A source telling CNN that he is talking to police about what their plan was, he told authorities that they were supposed to get into a car with prison tailor (ph) Joyce Mitchell whom they had befriended, who was now been charged of helping them escape.

They are going to drive to Mexico. But when she didn't show up that night that they broke out of the prison, they had to begin walking on their own.

He's also telling authorities that he ditched his partner Richard Matt about five days ago because he was slowing him down. And we also know from other sources that Richard Matt had fallen ill in the last couple of days of their walk through that very rough terrain.

Now, I just want to talk for a minute too, Wolf, about the security at this hospital behind me, where David Sweat is. It is equipped with their old screen professionals there. They have screen security team and he is being monitored not just by a law enforcement official but also by the hospital staff that is treating him. Wolf

BLITZER: Standby. I want to go to Constable, New York, Polo Sandoval is on the scene for us.

There -- David Sweat is, you know, Polo was close, very close less than two mile reach out from actually crossing into Canada. How close -- was he -- actually, to getting away that trooper single-handedly stopped him?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah that was a major concern out here, Wolf, with the scene that played at a very dramatic one at the conclusion of this manhunt.

We were told that the trooper, that New York State Trooper, Jacob was on patrol along the road that I'm standing on. At one point, he notices suspicious individual who he later would identify as David Sweat made contact with him. That's what David Sweat made a break for the tree line that you see off in the distance. There's a couple of folks a couple of mile, locals that have made their way out here to check out the scene.

Eventually, making their way out -- to his way out to the tree line, two concerns that the police sergeant had -- have it -- what's really on his mind which was, one Sweat was wearing camouflage clothing. He made into that dense-wooded area, he could potentially loose him, loose the lead and loose sight of him.

The other concern as you mentioned there Wolf, only about another mile and a half beyond that tree line is the U.S. Canadian border. So that was another concern that he had so as a result this police sergeant draw -- he drew his weapon, got on knee took aim, fired a couple of shots, two of them hitting David Sweat there in the back.

So again this is -- those are the two shots that were truly the beginning of the end for this manhunt that had so many people on the edge here.

Today though there is the sense of normalcy that seems to dominate the streets here in Upstate, New York which is exactly what the people who lived a nightmare for the last three weeks of wanted.

BLITZER: Yeah, and if he could have gone to those trees, he might have disappeared. Once again, Polo standby.

Investigators are hoping to learn much more about how David Sweat and Richard Matt actually broke out of prison. And how much help they receive. Today, Gene Palmer guard form from the Clinton Correctional Facility. He's in court.

Our own Jean Casarez is standing by. So walk us through, what's about to happen later this afternoon? What exactly is he accused of, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's got actually three felony charges and one misdemeanor charges. A one felony is promoting prison contraband. Two felonies are tampering the physical evidence and then official misconduct.

Now, we're right here at the court. This is a township court in Plattsburgh, New York. This is the first court you go to. This is called a court appearance today. So I think anything is possible. We do know he's got a brand new attorney out of Albany, William Dreyer, who has been practicing criminal law for 40 years. And that's why the hearing was continued from last week till today.

[13:05:06] But as far as the fact, you know, Gene Palmer, when he had his first lawyer, he met with officials and he really said a lot of things. This attorney may not appreciate that at this point, but he admitted that he had taken the screw driver and the pliers from the outside in the Clinton Correctional Facility four different times from Matt and Sweat. He also admitted that he had received paintings. But more than that, after they had gone missing, it was found allegedly that he had burned them and buried them and of course, legally, there's--Prosecutors will say that the consciousness of guilt action, you knew you shouldn't have the paintings so you tried to dispense with them. Of course, this all would be litigated in a court of law. But three felonies, one misdemeanor and by the way, that, there are more charges against him than Joyce Mitchell who allegedly was plotting to take them to the Mexican border.

BLITZER: Still a lot of questions that have to be answered and lessons learned as well. Jean I want you to standby as well. The hunt may be over but the investigation clearly in its still early stage this morning, we heard more details from the New York Governor Andrew Guomo spoke about what David Sweat was carrying when he was caught. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW GUOMO, (D) NEW YORK: He had a bag with him that had a number of supplies. He had maps, he had certain amount of tools. He had bug repellant, he had wipes. He had pop tarts, do we want to find out where they got them, was that planned before, did he acquire that after his escape. So we still want, there's an ongoing investigation to find out exactly how they did this. And the extent of cooperation they received from the people in the prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Governor of New York. Joining us now is Tim Williams, the former chief inspector for the New York, New Jersey Fugitive task force. He's also a former director for U.S. operations for Interpol. As you know Tim, David Sweat was spotted actually jogging or running along a road. Seems like a major mistake for someone who had pretty much stayed hidden for some three weeks. What did you make of that?

TIM WILLIAMS, FORMER CHIEF INSPECTOR, NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY FUGITIVE TASK FORCE: Pretty surprising. They did a pretty good job staying in the shadows, and I think it was kind of surprising in this effort that shows they were desperate at that time. He was desperate. They had separated for a few days. So certainly, very close to the border there, so it was very interesting.

BLITZER: Yeah, usually this guy is supposedly, we're moving at night when it was dark, not necessarily during the day, a major blunder on his part. As you know, Sweat has already told the investigators that the original plan for these two killers was to try to get to Mexico but their getaway driver, Joyce Mitchell who has now been arrested did not necessarily cooperate and show up and helped them. It seemed like they had a plan B.

WILLIAMS: Certainly, it doesn't seem that way. You would think, with the sophistication of that escape that everyone has commented on, I thought they would very, would have had a better plan B, like we always say, you got to have a plan B. So I don't think they really had that and they were lucky that they were in that kind of terrain out there that they were able to stay on the lam for 23 days.

BLITZER: We've also learned that Tim, that Richard Matt was ill, smelled of alcohol when he was shot and killed by the police truck last Friday. What told investigators that Matt was actually slowing him down so he split up, why do you think he waited so long to split up?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think they were probably a team. They thought they'd be good together and they had a plan from the beginning. But I think once--and that does happen on occasion where they split because it's just better to go their separate ways because people are really looking. I think the pressure from the law enforcement, the great teamwork, the great effort that was made on the law enforcement on this case, I think was really putting pressure on them and they, you know, felt the pressure.

BLITZER: Tim Williams, thanks very much for joining us.

WILLIAMS: Thank you Wolf.

BLITZER: So what will David Sweat tell authorities, you can be sure, investigators who will want to hear every detail about the daring prison escape. Will he tell them everything? Will he hold back crucial details? Can you believe a word this guy says?

And what happens now, very, very far away, over in Athens, doesn't necessarily stay in Athens, while Greece's time in the Euro zone could be ending, the trouble could just be starting in international markets. We're watching U.S. markets. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:13:55] BLITZER: The case of Upstate New York is finally over. David Sweat, the second of the two escaped murderer is back in custody, was shot as he ran from a state trooper and is now hospitalized in serious condition.

We're also learning, he's talking to authorities, telling them he was on his own for several days before fellow fugitive Richard Matt was gunned down. Source close to the investigation tells CNN, Sweat has told authorities Matt was actually slowing him down.

Let's discuss what's going on with our Law Enforcement Analyst, the Former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes and Defense Attorney Scott Bolden.

Guys, thanks very much for joining us.

These prosecutors Scott says no plea deals with Sweat right now. This guy is going to go back, spend the rest of his life in jail presumably as solitary, I assume. What incentive will he have though to talk, tell authorities what actually happened?

A. SCOTT BOLDEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, getting out of solitary confinement would be significant here. He's facing life without parole or he's serving a sentence with life without parole already.

So remember, he can easily be charged with a Class D felony, escaping from prison, as well as promoting contraband in prison.

[13:15:03] The government has a choice as to whether to charge him or not, but it's almost a moot issue at this point. And so his incentive would be getting out of solitary confinement, but also because of his ego and narcissism, he could want to tell. If he was smart he wouldn't tell because he's a young man, he's 30 years old. He may try this again. I hope he doesn't, but that's always a possibility.

But guys who are desperate and have been through what they've been through, it's more of relief than anything and they talk either because of their ego or because of stress.

BLITZER: You need sophisticated interrogators, FBI has good ones, as you well know, who can go in there and get this guy to talk. And not only talk, but tell them the truth because this guy's a liar. You never know what he's going to say.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Wolf, they can verify the things whether he says to them are true or not true. But as Scott mentioned, the most important key to this is his ego. Typically, sociopaths like this guy are very narcissistic. They want everybody - the world revolves around them. They want the world to know what they did. A sophisticated interrogator will play to that. Oh, you weren't really the mastermind, Matt was. You weren't really important, he was. He did this. He did that. Oh, no, no, I did it. I did it. I did it. Narcissism is all about me. It's a selfish trait and these guys have it to the extreme where the whole world is only about themselves.

BLITZER: Is he going to have an attorney present for all these conversations with authorities now?

BOLDEN: He's certainly entitled to it if he asks for it. He's been read his rights already. He's been charged presumably. But he's entitled to a lawyer but he doesn't necessarily have to have one.

The real key here is what the police want to know is not so much how he broke out with the tools, because they can trace that. They're really interested in, in who helped them so they can improve their security system but also charge people inside the prison and outside the prison who gave comfort and support for them because they could haven't done this alone.

BLITZER: But, you know, the problem is, he could have maybe hated one or two or three of these guards inside in this - and he could say, you know what, just to try to get some guard in trouble who was totally innocent because he hated this guard, he could say, well, John Smith, he helped me a lot and stuff like that.

FUENTES: That's true.

BLITZER: You know you -

FUENTES: That's true.

BLITZER: And so he could smear people that have no right to be smeared.

FUENTES: Oh, absolutely. They're not going to base any prosecution of a corrections officer or any other employee or anybody on the outside unless they can verify it, corroborate it, get independent evidence. Nobody's going to be prosecuted based on anything he says if that's all they've got.

BLITZER: And it's got - if he says I want an attorney, the attorney presumably will tell him shut up, don't say a word, we'll try to negotiate better terms for you, maybe not necessarily solitary confinement 23 hours a day, which presumably he's going to get for more years down the road. Any good criminal defense attorney would tell him let's negotiate something, right?

BOLDEN: Absolutely, and stop talking. And what we don't know is how much he's said already because, again, if he said everything - just because the media is reporting a snippet of that, then that will define how the - the more (INAUDIBLE) as well.

BLITZER: If he was in critical condition, he couldn't have been talking too much, right?

FUENTES: You know, when they showed the pictures of him sitting up I thought, this guy's in great shape.

BLITZER: Yes.

FUENTES: You know, he's a little pale, he lost a little weight, so what. They wouldn't have been sitting him up in that position if they thought he was on his deathbed.

BLITZER: But the doctors at the hospital described him as critical condition.

FUENTES: Well, they -

BLITZER: Now he's in serious condition. They've improved - they've upgrade his condition. But they say originally he was in critical condition.

FUENTES: Well, the level of dehydration and other factors may have been severe enough that - but I don't think the bullet wounds were critical, in my opinion, but I'm not a doctor.

BLITZER: I assuming he's going to be in solitary confinement for many years to come, 23 hours a day by himself, maybe one hour a day they'll let him go out and do a little walk in a courtyard, but that's it, right?

FUENTES: Not even a courtyard. They'll have a - they'll have an attached dog pen, basically, that they can go out and walk within this little kennel type facility and back into their cell.

BLITZER: Yes. All right.

BOLDEN: Yes, absolutely.

BLITZER: Guys, thanks very, very much.

BOLDEN: Thank you for having me.

BLITZER: Coming up, we'll move on to some other major news we're following, same-sex marriage now legal in the entire United States, but that hasn't stopped some GOP presidential hopefuls from promising to fight the Supreme Court decision, even if it means rejecting the law.

And a looming question for Democrats, will the vice president, Joe Biden, make his own run for the White House? There's now some buzz about a possible Biden bid. And that buzz getting a little bit louder. Find out why. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:23:35] BLITZER: Let's get to presidential politics right now and renewed speculation about whether the vice president, Joe Biden, will actually enter the 2016 race for the White House. According to "The Wall Street Journal," Biden's son Beau urged him to run before he passed away last month from brain cancer. The newspaper says Biden's son Hunter is also in favor of his dad waging another presidential campaign.

Let's discuss what's going on with our senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, our chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

You've been doing some reporting, Gloria. What are you hear from your sources close to Biden?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I have one source who's very close to Biden and this source said that, and I will quote it to you, Wolf, "to derive from the last month that Joe Biden is in a better frame of mind to think about a presidential run is completely incorrect."

This is a man who is in mourning. He's in pain. He's just suffered a great loss. He's trying to get back to work. There are people out there, and Jeff knows this, who would love to see Joe Biden run, but he is probably in less of a position to run today than he was a month ago. This is somebody who is clearly in mourning, and as this source said to me, there are a lot of people out there, quote, "blowing smoke," un quote, at Biden right now.

BLITZER: One of the reasons "The Wall Street Journal" cited, as you read the story in "The Wall Street Journal," that the speculation is increasing. If, in fact, both of his sons said, dad, we really think you should run for the White House, "The Wall Street Journal" noted that Bernie Sanders, who's running against Hillary Clinton, is doing well in some of these polls -

[13:25:07] BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: Especially in New Hampshire and they're saying if 73-year-old Bernie Sanders could do well against Hillary Clinton, maybe 72-year- old Joe Biden could do well against Hillary Clinton.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Sure, there is definitely a segment of the Democratic Party that is looking for, A, a competition, and, B, someone who's slightly more progressive than Hillary Clinton. You know, Joe Biden is not Bernie Sanders in any respect, I mean that in a positive way and a negative way.

But Gloria's right in terms of what they're thinking. I talked to someone close to the Biden family and they said that the sons gave him permission if he wants to. Don't sit on the sidelines because of me. But that is - does not mean that he's going to run.

BORGER: Right.

ZELENY: But, look, there is an opening in the Democratic Party right now for a conversation. That's why Bernie Sanders is within eight points of Hillary Clinton. But this is on the progressive left sort of wing of the party. This doesn't not mean there's necessarily an opening for Joe Biden, even if he wasn't sort of grieving right now.

BORGER: You know, he hasn't done anything, Wolf.

ZELENY: Right.

BORGER: You know, there is no Joe Biden presidential PAC. And I think the feeling always was is that if Hillary Clinton somehow faltered in a huge way that Joe Biden would be out there on the sidelines. But join the club. You know, John Kerry's out there on the - on the - on the sidelines also. So I don't think there's any particular change right now.

BLITZER: Here's what was intriguing in that "Wall Street Journal" story, Jeff, was that there is this draft Biden movement, very small, out there.

BORGER: Right.

ZELENY: Right.

BLITZER: But they're saying they have not been discouraged from the Biden folks -

ZELENY: Sure. Sure.

BLITZER: About going forward. And you know Joe Biden, he's not a shy guy. If he really didn't want to run, he could easily say, you know what, I'm not running, I'm serving out my vice presidency. But he's leaving open that door a little bit. The silence on his part that he's not denying it is sometimes very telling.

ZELENY: It is but - and why not. He deserves the respect of us discussing whether he might run for president.

BORGER: Right.

ZELENY: Joe Biden deserves that. He's run a couple other times before. But his silence is in many case - and we're talking to people who have similar views of this. If something would happen to Hillary Clinton, if she would have a health episode, if she would have a political calamity we can't even think about -

BORGER: Right.

ZELENY: Yes, he would consider getting in. So why would he send a signal now that he's not interested? He does not have to do that. It's not necessary. But this draft Biden movement, well-intentioned people but not sanctioned, I would say.

BORGER: Right. And I had a source who said to me today that, look, that this puts Joe Biden in kind of a box because he doesn't want to address this. At some point he's going to have to address it, maybe later this summer.

ZELENY: In August.

BORGER: In August. Who knows? But it does - it's not what he's thinking about right now. I mean we have to remember this man's grief at this moment and I think we saw it when he went to the AME church over the weekend. You know, this is a man who has other things on his mind.

BLITZER: Yes, he's obviously going through a serious mourning period right now.

BORGER: Of course.

BLITZER: Although his aides have said he'll make a formal announcement one way or the other by August.

ZELENY: Right.

BLITZER: Given the nature of the Democratic debates, which are going to be happening, if there are some, in the fall. We'll see what happens on that front.

All right, guys, thanks very, very much.

Republican reaction to the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage ranges from acceptance to anger. While supporters celebrated the - celebrated outside the high court, some presidential candidates promise a new fight for what they call religious liberty. Listen to what Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Here where's the next fight's going. I think the left is now going to go after our First Amendment rights. I think it is wrong for the federal government to force Christian individuals, businesses, pastors, churches, to participate in wedding ceremonies that violate our sincerely held religious beliefs. We have to stand up and fight for religious liberty. That's where this fight is going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our CNN political commentator Ana Navarro is joining us, and the author Sofia Nelson (ph) is joining us. They're both Republicans, but they have different views on the Supreme Court ruling.

Ana, first to you. What do you think of the Republican shift to a fight over religious liberty that several of those Republican presidential candidates are now suggesting?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, Wolf, I think the first thing we need to point out is that - that we shouldn't paint all Republicans with one broad brush. As you've said, there's a division amongst Republicans. And if you look at the statistics, people my age, Republicans my age who are under 49, have over 43 percent of approval rating for gay marriage. If you're even younger, if you are under 30, the approval rating amongst republicans is 61 percent. So, you know, yes we have seen that there's a variation in the way that people have reacted.

[13:29:50] Some people, I can tell you that - on a - from a personal point of view, I was full of celebration. There was joy in my heart. So many of my gay friends are going to be legitimized in a way that they so want to be. And from a political perspective, I hope Republicans can move on, though I recognize that the religious freedom issue is a legitimate question and, yes, it's a battle that is just beginning.