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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Police Finish Sweat's Interview; South Carolina Church Fire; Prison Escape Details. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 1, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: "AT THIS HOUR." It's been a busy day.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It sure has. LEGAL VIEW with Brianna Keilar today starts right now.

Another southern black church up in flames. The FBI and ATF on the scene. But so far, no sign of arson and there was plenty of lightning in the area overnight.

Also this hour, Donald Trump under fire. Two TV networks and a major retailer dump Trump, but the presidential contender doubles down with a half billion dollar lawsuit and even more anti-Mexican remarks. And guess what all the bad press is doing to his poll numbers?

And the prison escape that gets more dramatic by the minute. From his hospital bed, David Sweat tells how he masterminded the plot and made it all the way to a manhole a day before the big breakout.

Hi there, everyone. I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

New York State Police are finished interviewing captured inmate David Sweat for now and they have learned plenty from him over the last two days from his hospital bed in Albany, New York. Sweat says that he was the mastermind and his plot to escape started all the way back in January. He and Richard Matt even did a practice run the night before their escape. Sweat says they only used hacksaws, no power tools, carving their way through their cell walls and a steam pipe inside the prison.

And we're also learning new details about the hours before Richard Matt was killed. A source tells CNN Matt was drinking grape-flavored liquor in a cabin. Then he went inside a trailer and fired several shots, which hit an RV driving by. And Sweat's DNA was found on M&M wrappers along the road not far from what Matt died.

CNN national correspondent Deborah Feyerick joining me now from New York, and we have former federal inmate Larry Levine joining us from Los Angeles.

Deborah, what's going on right now. What's going to happen to Richard Matt's body? DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, pretty much we can

tell you that his family simply does not want it. They, according to the hospital, will not be - have no plans to claim the body. We do know that Matt was reportedly abandoned as an infant. He was raised by foster parents. He does have a half-brother. He also has a son and a daughter, different mothers, who he was not really involved in raising. But right now we're being told by the hospital, Alice Hyde Hospital, that, in fact, the county, Franklin County, is going to claim possession and they will probably bury him in some sort of a public grave. That's what we're hearing right now.

KEILAR: OK. And, Deb, tell us what Sweat is saying about his time on the run. He's really sharing a lot with authorities.

FEYERICK: Well, he is and he's not. Authorities are going to have to essentially double check every single thing that comes out of his mouth, like even the fact that he's saying that he used those hacksaws to get out of that prison cell. But even if you look at the hole that is behind that bed, there's a cut that does not appear to have been made by a hacksaw. It appears to have been made by more of a power tool. So they're going to have to corroborate every single thing that he's saying. You know, especially also, you pop up one man - you shimmy down six floors, you pop up a manhole that you seem not to like, and so you actually then have to go back up those six floors. A lot of stuff doesn't make sense and officials that you speak to will - will say that, that all of this is really going to have to be verified because it would mean that there would be two holes that were made for him to climb out the manholes.

What we do know is, during his time on the run, he was able to elude authorities. There was an instant where it's reported that, in fact, they were very close to somebody who was searching a house, that they could even hear a conversation that was being had. There's additional information that's being reported that, in fact, at one point David Sweat may have hidden in on one of those hunting, sort of perches that are on trees where you sort of spot animals. So a lot of interesting details. But again, it's got to be corroborated.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Oh, definitely. That's the question, right, Larry, how can investigators trust what he's telling them?

LARRY LEVINE, FORMER FEDERAL INMATE: Well, the guy, really, he has nothing to lose. He's serving a life sentence. They can go ahead and convict him for the escape, for the burglary of the cabins, whatever he stole, but the point is, he's never going to get out. And if you look at these steam pipes and he said he's using a hacksaw blade, well, anybody who's just taken a regular blade, because I don't think they were in a saw, they're flimsy. How many blades would he have had to have used to cut through that? Plus the steam pipe. Does this mean that Joyce Mitchell was bringing him in, I don't know, hacksaw blades for months? I don't believe everything he's saying.

Also, think about it, he climbed through that steam pipe, cut a hole at the other end, from the inside. That cut is too perfect. How would he know exactly where to pop out? My money is that somebody already had that hole cut for him on the other side. So maybe he's giving them information, but 100 percent true, highly unlikely.

[12:05:01] KEILAR: What - are there any incentives for him to tell the truth? He may be trying to evade time in solitary confinement and certainly there may be some incentives for him to lie as well, right?

LEVINE: Well, protecting people. Let's put it like this. Could you really see him, a career inmate, career criminal, if you will, protecting any staff members, any cops? Hell, they already bumped 12 of them out of the institution. So he is giving up people. He probably just is not giving up the people that he knows. But in exchange for his cooperation, because normally on an escape in New York, they're going to put you in the special housing unit, solitary confinement, for five years. Chances are he's never going to go back there. And they're going to want him to testify possibly against all these other staff members, against Joyce Mitchell, who knows.

Now, the correctional officer that they have arrested or he's out on bond, I don't think he was really involved in this at all because he's custody staff. Custody staff is a sworn correctional officer. And this guy was there for 27 years. So I think that both of them are telling the truth. He has no involvement.

But as far as Sweat getting special privileges, better food, better living accommodations, he does not want to be in the hole for the next five years. Nobody does.

KEILAR: Yes.

LEVINE: Maybe more telephone calls home. Maybe he'll get extended visits. I don't know if they give visits in the status that he's in.

KEILAR: All right, we'll see. Larry, thank you so much. Deb, thank you so much. A lot of details, still questions that need answering. Appreciate you both.

Up next, a South Carolina church, once burned by the KKK, goes up in flames again. So what have investigators digging through the ashes, what have they found this time around?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:10:32] KEILAR: It is clearly a tragedy and the timing is clearly suspicious, but the fire that destroyed an AME church in South Carolina last night may well have been accidental, started by lightning. No one was hurt when Mt. Zion AME in Greeleyville broke out in flames, but the building itself is a total loss, as you can see in these pictures. Only the outside walls there still standing. This is the sixth black church to catch fire since the Charleston church massacre two weeks ago, but only two of those are confirmed arson at this point. And this fire comes almost exactly 20 years after Greeleyville's previous Mt. Zion Church building was torched by the KKK.

CNN's Victor Blackwell is there. I'm also joined by CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes.

Victor, I want to start with you there in front of this church. What do we know at this point?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the headline at this hour, Brianna, is that senior federal law enforcement sources tell CNN that lightning indeed has caused this fire last night that completely just scorched everything inside Mt. Zion AME Church.

Let me get out of the way and I can show you that it's just a brick shell and a across here. If you can see through what used to be the doorway, now just this scorched outline here, there's nothing left in here that's salvageable. A total loss here.

There were ATF investigators who were inside this church, state investigators, local investigators, looking for maybe an accelerant or some indicator of what caused this fire. Again, federal law enforcement sources tell CNN that likely lightning is the cause. In fact, there were, according to CNN meteorologists - let's put the map up if we can - four lightning strikes at about 7:18 p.m. last night in the close vicinity of Mt. Zion AME.

Now, this church has been through a rebuild after a fire before. As you mentioned, 20 years ago, it was June of 1995, when two members of the Ku Klux Klan burned down the original Mt. Zion AME. They pleaded guilty, served close to 20 years in prison, each of those two men. In 1996, then President Bill Clinton came to rededicate this church.

And we spoke with the mayor of Greeleyville, Jesse Parker, about that day back in 1996. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JESSE PARKER, GREELEYVILLE, SOUTH CAROLINA: When we went out to the scene last night, we were saddened but our - by what we saw out there. I can remember some 19 to 20 years ago being on that same site when then President Bill Clinton came down and helped to dedicate that church from one that was burned a couple years earlier, and to ride up there last night and just see the church in flame again, it just - it gives you an ill feeling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: A very small congregation. Just 62 members according to the pastor. But the pastor here, John Taylor, tells us that they will rebuild.

Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Tom, what are you hearing about the cause of this fire? Anything at this point?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I heard earlier today that - around 10:00 a.m. that the fire had been determined to be a lightning strike as opposed to arson. The FBI crime scene and ATF crime scene experts working on determining the cause of the fire found no indication of an accelerant or any other material that would have started the fire and they consulted with the National Weather Service and their radar system and determined that there were those lightning strikes in close proximity to the church last night around 7:15 p.m. So - so, yes, this morning it was determined by the investigators to not be arson.

KEILAR: It certainly reawakened some concern and I think being this - a church that had been torched by KKK members a couple decades ago, certainly that was a concern of people and I think some are wondering if there may be a surge in churches that are set on fire. There's about 1,700 churches that are - that do catch fire every year. The vast majority of those fires are accidental, though, right?

FUENTES: Right. The FBI has determined - and they diligently work on every single fire, whether it's a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, any other religious institution, and they've determined that there are these number of fires, all denominations, all races, ethnicities and religions that - and denominations of religions that are set, they've determined that about 60 percent of the fires are actually arson, but the vast majority of those turn out to be set on purpose for insurance fraud by people - by churches that can't pay their mortgage or have other reasons to do it. So they're not always being done by a hate group that hates that particular religion or that particular denomination.

[12:15:30] But they immediately investigate these with - as extensively as they can. Try to determine, in the case of black churches particularly in the south, are they the result of the KKK, like we've had in the past, or, you know, another white hate group that might be involved in it. And that's what they do, they look very closely at that.

KEILAR: All right, Tom Fuentes, thank you so much. Victor Blackwell, thanks so much for your report from Greeleyville.

Given this church's troubled past, many people feared the worst when it did catch fire last night. Coming up, no matter what the cause, this congregation and community have plenty of challenges ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We're talking about last night's devastating fire at Mt. Zion AME Church in Greeleyville, South Carolina. Lightning is suspect, but on the record, state, local, and federal investigators aren't ruling anything out. No one was hurt, but as you can see, the structure, just a complete and total loss. I want to bring in Eddie Woods. He's Greeleyville's representative on the Williamsburg County council, and Bakari Sellers, he's a CNN contributor and former South Carolina state representative.

[12:20:10] Gentlemen, thanks so much for being with us.

And, Eddie, without speaking to the cause of this fire, talk about the impact of it on your community for us.

EDDIE WOODS, GREELEYVILLE REPRESENTATIVE/COUNTY COUNCILMAN: This has been a devastating event and has been quite traumatic for the community. But we realize that through all things God's in charge and we're going to let God have his way and we will bounce back from this as we did before.

KEILAR: Bakari, how much easier are people going to breathe if it is determined that this was accidental?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that is part of the complexity with the conversation that we're having nationwide. When a church burns down, you shouldn't be taking a deep breath and praying to your dear Lord that it's lightning instead of someone with an ill heart or malice in their heart. We're hopeful and we will take a deep breath if it is lightning, if it is some natural cause so we can move forward.

But this community has been through so much. You know, we're not far from North Charleston where you had the Walter Scott case. We're not far from Mother Emanuel AME Church, where you had nine slain two weeks ago. And so it's just been a troublesome, troublesome time where all we have is resiliency and all we have is prayer.

KEILAR: Eddie, can you speak to that because I know that when it wasn't maybe so clear that this could be just an act of nature, you said if this was someone, meaning someone who intentionally set this fire, they need to know that hate won't stop us again. I mean just describe sort of the state of things where you are where when something like this happens, and there's a history certainly at this church, that's where your mind goes, that's where your concern is.

Yes, quite naturally, when this happens, your mind goes back to what happened 19 or 20 years ago when this church was torched before and it was done by the Ku Klux Klan. And I don't know what the results is going to turn up as far as the investigation with this one, but if it is an act of God, so be it and let's give - just give God thanks that nobody was at church when it occurred.

And if it was an act of hatred, violence on the part of some other human being, we hope that they will find in their heart and let them know that this is not the way to go. If you've got a problem with something, you do not handle it through violence. And if their intentions were to devastate this community, they have achieved that. But if their intentions were to divide this community, of course they have failed because if anything what this will do, if it is an act of hatred, is not divide this community but galvanize this community and bring them together as one unified community. And together we will rebuild. Together we will keep them in our prayers, and together we will prevail as we have before.

And let me just say, too, that this could be the genesis of God's plan. And as you know with the genesis comes a revelation. And that revelation could very well be to bring this community together.

KEILAR: And we will see, Eddie, thank you so much. Eddie Woods, Bakari Sellers, to both of you, really appreciate it.

Up next, just when you thought that you heard it all from that New York prison break, the wounded escapee wows us even more with Hollywood worthy details of the breakout and the chase.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:17] KEILAR: The New York prison escape, the manhunt, and now all the attention that David Sweat is getting is so upsetting for the family of the deputy who Sweat murdered on July 4, 2002. Saturday will mark 13 years since Kevin Tarsia was killed. And just like every Fourth of July, his family will go to the park where he died and decorate and remember Kevin. Kevin's brother, Steven, spoke to TWC News Binghamton about what he hopes will happen to Sweat now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN TARSIA, KEVIN TARSIA'S BROTHER: I wish they could get the information out of him and him not make it. I'd be happy. We were told that he would look at cells - the cell the whole time and that's all he'd ever do is look at a cell, look at walls, come out for half an hour a day, you know, and put in a cage like a dog, which he is. He was able to use a computer, talk to his friends, relatives, have people come and see him and that really, really ate us up on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, on the other side is David Sweat's mother, who still loves her son, wants to visit him in prison. And just as much as she blames him for his actions, she also blames those inside who helped him escape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA SWEAT, DAVID SWEAT'S MOTHER: If that woman then - and whoever else was involved didn't give them that stuff, those guys would have never broke out of jail. They wouldn't have had nothing to do it with. So I kind of - you know, I blame them as well as the two guy, David and the other guy. They knew better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Jon Ozmint is the former director of the South Carolina Department of Corrections. He's joining me now from Columbia, South Carolina.

Jon, thanks for being with us.

And we know at this point that hacksaws were used to escape. David Sweat says that's all that was used. There is some skepticism, maybe there were some power tools. We don't know at this point completely. But Joyce Mitchell admitted to planting the hacksaw blades in the hamburger meat, getting it to Sweat. What kind of contraband have you seen getting into prisons?

JON OZMINT, FORMER DIRECTOR, S.C. DEPT. OF CORRECTIONS: We've seen everything - any prison system's seen every kind of contraband you can imagine. Anything from weapons, to tools, to drugs. You know, if there's a - if there's a market for it in prison, then people try to sneak it in. KEILAR: And how do - how do they get it in? How creative are they

getting? I mean this was almost something out of some - almost out of like a Scooby Doo episode or something with this prison - with the hamburger meat. How have you seen this contraband smuggled in?

[12:29:50] OZMINT: Well, in our system, and in many systems, most of the contraband used to come in the front gate with employees or visitors. In our system, and in many systems, we've put in places - in place security screening mechanisms, much like you would find at an airport, where you have an x-ray machine, a metal detector, so you screen every package, ever parcel. In this case