Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Hunt For El Chapo Continues; The Contentious Relationship Between Donald Trump and the GOP; Breaking News on Search for Answers on Girl Found Dead; Interview with Shark Attack Survivor. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 13, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:13] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
Tonight, there are new developments in the story of this little girl. She is known only as Baby Doe. This is a computer rendering of what authorities think she might have looked like before her body tragically turned up on a Massachusetts coastline.
Randi Kaye is working her sources. She is joining us soon with her new reporting about the case.
But we begin tonight with breaking news out of Mexico City. We are expecting any minute now to hear from Mexico's interior minister with late developments in the hunt for Joaquin Guzman, El Chapo, head of Mexico's Sinaloa drug cartel.
Before he was captured the last time around, about 18 months ago, he held a dubious distinction of being both America and Mexico's most wanted and one of Forbes magazine's wealthiest people. A man with a billion dollars to his name and the blood of thousands of people on his hands.
Until this weekend locked up in a prison not far from Mexico City, a maximum security prison or so it seemed until El Chapo apparently just crawled and then walked out right out.
Nick Valencia joins us now at outside the prison with more on the search for him and for answers. What's the latest, Nick?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, whether out it is out of embarrassment or because of their ongoing investigation, officials are not saying much. As it seems, Anderson, this escape was planned not only in plain view of the prison officials and federal police, but also the military. We spent our day outside of the rural home where it said El Chapo escaped and we saw a heavy military presence, federal police there as well. We couldn't get any more than 50 yards to that front door. The tunnel was not accessible just yet. No one has gone in there, except for the PGR, the attorney general's office and some other officials.
So, it seems that they are looking for him still in this area. The locals that have spoken to, they say, given El Chapo's pass, they think that he is long gone -- Anderson. COOPER: Mexico's president had staked an awful lot on this. Had
said, you know, if he was able to escape again it would be a huge embarrassment. I'm wondering, what kind of reaction has this been getting in Mexico not only among officials but people you talk to?
VALENCIA: He called it in an interview with the local press, unforgivable, the second escape from El Chapo. And that is exactly seems to be the situation he is dealing with. Much criticism from the locals I spoke saying the president hasn't returned from his trip to Europe. He was in France when he heard the news.
Back to this conversations with the (INAUDIBLE) and farmers, they told me interestingly enough, Anderson, that the construction started to the rural home, where El Chapo was said to have escaped about eight months ago in December. And then they finished around February or March. But people stuck around there. And that drew the suspicion of some of those local farmers especially because generally speaking people don't work here Sundays. But that's exactly what they had. People working 'round-the-clock. What they say is to, you know, pick up the dirt, but heavy machinery, heavy construction. I spoke to one (INAUDIBLE), one farmer who she says her reaction is nothing but fear hearing that El Chapo is back on the loose.
COOPER: Nick, appreciate your reporting. Nick Valencia.
Now, whatever role at any guard or other insiders played the tunnel itself is an El Chapo signature. In his prior 13 years at large he equipped many of his hideouts with tunnels. As "60 minute's" Bill Whitaker discovered, he lifted the bathtub from the sand and discovered a hatch way underneath. The digging often went on for miles, sometimes tying into local sewer lines or connecting up with another safe house tunnel. This time, though it was built straight into and straight out of a maximum security prison.
Tom Foreman takes us inside.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, this prison had plenty of security measures in placed above the ground. They had ways of blocking cell phone signals. They had heavily armored vehicles to repulse any sort of ground assault. They had three foot thick walls so rockets could not break in. And yet, for all of that, El Chapo found a way to burrow out under the noses of Mexican authorities and get to this freedom tunnel off in the distance here. And go completely free.
How did he manage to do that? Well, first of all, he tapped into the expertise of his gang which has been known to build all sorts of tunnels for transporting drugs and eluding their enemies. And they started beneath a shower. One of the few places where he wasn't being monitored by video 24 hours a day. He went 33 feet straight down and then when you look at the details of this tunnel you see an engineering marvel.
This thing was five-and-a-half feet tall, his height. Same as his height, almost two-and-a-half feet wide. So he could simply walk through it. It was reinforced with wood so they can keep track of all the structural integrity, whether or not ground water were seeing in there, a lighting system through it so they could see what they were doing. A ventilation system so that there will be no gasses that could possibly overcome anyone there. They even had a track along the bottom of it so they could transport out on some sort of cart or motorcycle. It is not clear what they were doing.
What we do know is that in the end this thing was a mile long. And over that distance it could have taken a year to build easily. And yet, one of the most wanted drug dealers in the world was able to walk out there in what would have been ten minutes or less, Anderson.
[20:05:25] COOPER: Tom, we have covered drug tunnels extensively from Mexico to the U.S. I've been inside of them. We heard about new technology that will supposed to help find the tunnels. Could that have helped here?
FOREMAN: YES. You stood down there, Anderson. You wonder, how could they not hear this going on? I talked to a geophysicist with the Miter Corporation, which is contracting with the government to help develop better systems like this. And she told me it is just not that good yet. This is a difficult task. You have three stories down. Even though you have devices listening for digging. Maybe trying to measure anomalies in the earth. They have to be really close before they can tell that something is going on here.
Bigger question though is how come nobody noticed the dirt. We said this is a mile long here. Think about this. If it is a mile long, you are taking a lot of dirt away. In fact more than 200 big dump trucks full. And it is hard to imagine, Anderson, that for all that going on, nobody out here seemed to have noticed anything -- Anderson.
COOPER: There was the construction site this tunnel emptied out into. So perhaps they were masking it with some of that construction work. It is incredible though that this happen.
Tom, appreciate the reporting. Thank you.
Well, it is an extraordinary development. We know we just learned that the press conference in Mexico City just got pushed back slightly. We'll keep an eye on it. Bring you any late developments from it if there is news from there that we have learned.
Our next guest has devoted a major part of his career to catching El Chapo, working with his Mexican counterparts, former ICE officials, James Dinkins spent a decade learning his moves and finally tracking him down.
Jim, you were head of homeland security investigations at the time that El Chapo Guzman was captured. You were involved in the hunt for, for, over a decade. When you heard that he had escaped this time. What did you think?
JAMES DINKINS, FORMER HEAD OF HOMELAND SECURITY INVESTIGATION: I was really shocked. You know, but quite frankly, not surprised. You know, he is a very elusive character. And not only hard to track down but as we are finding out, hard to keep in captivity as well. COOPER: Is it so much that he escaped or that he was allowed to
escape? It seem s impossible that there wasn't collusion of people inside this prison.
DINKINS: Well, you know, this one I think it relies less on bribing his way out. And a lot more this traditional means. You know, this is somebody who really perfected the tunneling system as not only to bring drugs into the United States, but that's how he evaded being captured for ten years was through tunnels. And so, it's not surprising that -- you know, in a second captivity, maximum security prison that he resorted to what he knew best. And that was heavily engineered construction tunnel. You know pop right up underneath the floor of his cell. It is quite amazing.
COOPER: I have been in a number of these tunnels on the border that have been discovered. And just the intricacy of them, the elaborate, you know, ventilation system, electricity, but even to be able to you need a lot of technological know-how in order to be able to dig a tunnel from the outside that gets you -- that gets right to the exact spot in the prison that is necessary. That's, that's a complicated feat.
DINKINS: Yes, it is. And Anderson, I know you have been down on the southwest border and you see some of the tunnels we have seized over the years. And you often see that they get off track in different areas and have to kind of adjust. That often even come up, two, three, meters from where they originally intended to. This was one was very, very precise.
COOPER: So now does he just go into hiding? Do you think he tries to maintain an operational role?
DINKINS: Yes, you know, he will start influencing things immediately. The one thing is with this is that he had a year to plan not only as he is planning his escape through the tunnel. But also, how he was going to avoid being arrested again and assume control. So he has really got a head start on everybody in the search for him now as well as ability to directly start influencing the cartel once again.
COOPER: There were a number of people who flipped, gave information, I mean, do you think he will look for retribution?
DINKINS: I think down the road he will. Right now, he is -- his main focus is his escape and his continued freedom.
COOPER: Was it worth capturing him in 2014?
DINKINS: Absolutely. You know, this is something that you can never predict. It definitely sent a signal that the cartels in Mexico that Mexico and the United States would cooperate and share information. And at the same time, Mexican military and law enforcement would risk their lives to go after the baddest at all cost. And they demonstrated that and I think that they will continue to demonstrate that as now they hunt for him once again.
[20:10:12] COOPER: Jim, thanks so much for talking to us. Appreciate it. DINKINS: My pleasure, Anderson.
COOPER: And as I mentioned, we are waiting on that press conference from Mexican authorities looking for new information about the massive manhunt now under way. And also more information about exactly how this happened. How the number one person on the radar of law enforcement, the number one drug runner that they had in captivity was able to escape yet again from a prison.
We are also - we are going to take you inside one of the sophisticated drug tunnel next, show you what it is like. And we'll visit Sinaloa where Guzman is both feared by many and practically worshipped by others.
Also tonight, Donald Trump who has been tweeting about the escape and continue to ramp up his rhetoric on border issues. The question is he gaining popular traction even as his party tries to get him to tone it down.
Later, you will hear from a young man who nearly lost his life to a shark. This is an incredible story in the waters of North Carolina. You have heard about that uptick in shark attacks. Well this 16-year- old talks how he survived the encounter and the recovery that is now ahead of him.
[20:15:06] COOPER: As we mentioned at the top of broadcast, we are waiting for a late update from Mexican officials on the El Chapo prison break. We'll bring that to you as soon as it happens.
But more now on the escape tunnel. It may also have cost a small fortune to build millions of dollars, former top DEA official tells "Los Angeles Times" today. Then again what may be a small fortune to most people is pocket change to a drug lord. Whether to get out of prison or in the case of some so many other tunnels to smuggle billions in dollars of drugs across the U.S./Mexican border.
A few years ago, border officials uncovered a massive tunnel between San Diego and Tijuana and they showed us around. Take a look.
COOPER: This is the most sophisticated tunnel they have ever discovered. Certainly most sophisticated one I have ever seen. I mean, there is light bulbs in this so there is an electrical system, there is - actually, this is an air vent you can see. There is actually cool air circulating in here. So fresh air circulating which prove, the deeper you go. There is even a phone system. The phones still work. In that way, people inside the tunnel could communicate with anyone up above.
But what is really remarkable here is what I am about to show you. This is the motor works for an elevator. It is a primitive elevator. There is no doubt about it. But they brought this down here. This is the elevator itself. It is basically a large cart on wheels. We are going to take you down and show you what happens down there.
I believe two people can fit in the tunnel at once. So it is a slow operation to actually bring people down here. They don't think this tunnel was used to ferry illegal immigrants into the country. It is too great a risk when you are putting the amount of money that they put into this tunnel. You don't want to have large numbers of people moving through because those people could get arrested and then could give up the information. So it is most likely the tunnel was being built just for drugs.
When you get to the bottom it's -- there is a lot of sandbags here that we have to crawl through, but what is amazing here, I mean, we are now in 90 feet deep. The lights still work down here. And the phones are even this deep underground. All right.
We probably already crossed into the United States. This part of the tunnel, again, you have to crouch down. It looks like this is all really loose dirt. And we haven't seen much loose dirt. So I'm just kind of assuming that they were in the process of carting some of this dirt out. Because it is really the only area so far in the tunnel we have seen that has this kind of loose earth.
So, look at this huge pile of it. You get a sense of the amount, just a sheer volume of earth that they had, you know, to cart away, put into those either plastic bags, put into burlap sacks or put it to wheelbarrows bring it up to the surface get in to trucks and get it away so no one would notice.
COOPER: We know in the El Chapo tunnel, as Tom Foreman said, a lot of trucks must have been involved. Now, whether it is tunneling under international borders, corrupting officials there or murdering opponents by the hundreds, drug lords operate so brazenly they become in the territory they control virtually laws unto themselves.
Recently, Gary Tuchman spent some time in El Chapo's territory. Here is what he found.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is one of the most dangerous spot in Mexico. A place where few outsiders go.
We are in driving through the heart of the Mexican state of Sinaloa, which is the home of the certain multinational business known as the Sinaloa cartel, one of the most powerful, wealthy, ruthless drug cartel that ever was. Its leader is a man by the name of Joaquin Guzman, better known as El Chapo and this is his home.
This is El Chapo back in 1993 after he had been arrested the first time. But in 2001 he escaped from prison in a laundry cart. And this is him last year after he was captured again sleeping in his beachside hideaway in Sinaloa, his assault rifle by his side as well as his wife. His 2-year-old twin daughters were also in the condo. He has been the most wanted man in Mexico. Marijuana, cocaine, meth,
heroin, and murder all part of his business. Violence seems like these, bodies stuffed in garbage bags, police executed and journalists assassinated are directly connected to the ramp of the Sinaloa cartel. Much of the blood is spilled in (INAUDIBLE), the largest city in Sinaloa in the violent nerve center of the cartel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Around here he is the legend of Sinaloa.
TUCHMAN: And that mystique is part of the reason people are protective of him. El Chapo was seen as a modern day Robin Hood, helping (INAUDIBLE) this Sinaloa in economy with drug money, a common feeling, league El Chapo on his cartel alone and we will leave alone.
At the Sinaloa cathedral, one of the priests says it is commonly understood that people mind their manners when it comes to El Chapo and his bloody exploits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): People from around here know not to speak of El Chapo. We don't talk about it.
[20:20:03] TUCHMAN: Just drive around here and you will see how the drug kingpin and members of this cartel are idolized. Storefronts bear the name of the cartel leader. And it is not uncommon to see El Chapo printed on tops of license plate frames.
But nothing idolizes the Narco-trafficking trade more than here. Money lined the walls and ceiling and business and place of prayer that celebrates the drug culture and the life of a man many compare to El Chapo.
This is a sight you never expect to see in a law-abiding society. This is literally a chapel dedicated to a man by the name of Jesus Valverde (ph) who was born in 1870, died in an early 20th century. He is considered a patron saint for drug dealers and those who sympathize with drug dealers. He was consider a Robin Hood back in his time.
Drug dealers come here. Families of drug dealers come here to pray for people who died and also to pray for good transport of drugs up north. Here is a sign for example. This is a chapel right inside here. Here is a sign in Spanish said thank you to God, thank you to Saint Jude, and Jesus Valverde for favor of protecting our family. And it signed by a family here in (INAUDIBLE), Sinaloa.
But the most bizarre scene in Sinaloa may be this. Driving down the street in (INAUDIBLE), at first looks like you are entering a neighborhood. But this is a cemetery where cartel members are buried.
This looks like a house, but it is not. There is a body buried in here. It's a tomb. There are scores of similar mausoleums in the cemetery with the faces of the drug kingpins posted outside the crypts. Traffickers who likely grew up in poverty and homes much smaller than the final resting places. And when the drug trade is glorified like this, it is easy to see how someone like El Chapo could repeatedly elude justice.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Mexico.
COOPER: It is incredible to see those mausoleums.
A lot more ahead tonight including how Donald Trump has seized on the prison break story and making part of his message on border issue showing no sign of backing down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think that the president of Mexico, governors of the Mexican states are involved in sending their u undesirable people to the country.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I do. Without question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Busy night for our Gary Tuchman.
And later, breaking news in the case of a little girl found in a trash bag near Boston. Two major developments to report. Either of which could shed light on exactly what happened.
[20:25:08] COOPER: Well, the backlash is ramping up over Donald Trump's comments on illegal immigration. But at the same time, his popular support do seems to be picking up steam. Hillary Clinton tweeted in Spanish just a few hours ago. The translation, I only have one word for Mr. Trump, enough. And not just Democrat whose have had enough apparently. On CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," Senator Lindsey Graham who is among those battling say Trump for the nomination said this is a defining moment for the party and I need to reject Trump's way of thinking without any ambiguity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are some people who love Donald Trump and say that he is speaking the truth. What I think he is doing is being a demagogue. I think he is uninformed about the situation regarding the illegal immigrant population. I think he has hijacked the debate. I think he is a wrecking ball for the future of the Republican Party with the Hispanic community and we need to push back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: GOP, wrecking ball or not, Trump's popularity cannot be denied in the polls and at his events. A new moment, University poll out today finds Jeb Bush leading the pack in a national survey of Republicans with 15 percent. Trump is number two with 13 percent. Though, the two-point gap, that's within the margin of error. And over the weekend in Phoenix, Donald Trump had to move the campaign event to a bigger space because so many people wanted to go. Perhaps no surprise given the locality. Again, here's Gary Tuchman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome the next president of the United States, Mr. Donald Trump!
TUCHMAN (voice-over): He entered the room to a song called "Real American," the same song, wrestler Hulk Hogan used entering the ring. To many the similarities between the two don't stop there. Like with Hogan, Trump brings with him a flare for the dramatic. And subtlety, that's out the window.
TRUMP: I told you I want to the Warden School of finance. I was like I am like a really smart person. I am more for the military, the most militaristic person in the room. I would have a military that so strong that we would never have to use it. I'm a donor. Somebody said, you gave to the Democrats. Of course, I give to everybody. I want to get everything done. Everybody loves me.
TUCHMAN: Well not everybody. In this packed Phoenix ballroom which has capacity of about 4,500 people, a lack of love from about 20 protesters, unfurled a banner and shouted stop the racism. Stop the hate in reference to Trump's painting many Mexican undocumented immigrants as rapists and criminals. Trump was not in a loss for words as the protesters were hustled out.
TRUMP: I wonder if the Mexican government sent them over here. I think so.
TUCHMAN: It's not at all clear if he is joking. Because the real estate tycoon and reality show mogul also said Mexico is actually sending the undocumented immigrants over. And here in Phoenix he announce aid plan, a Trump White House would implement.
TRUMP: Every time Mexico really intelligently sends people over, we charge Mexico $100,000 for every person they send over. No further detail on how much such a plan would work. But it was rhetoric not specifics that kept the audience happy.
TRUMP: The silent majority is back. And we're going to take it country back.
TUCHMAN: What do you think about his stance about illegal immigration?
SHARON GRAY, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think he gets taken out of context if. I think he speaks for a number of Americans who are too afraid to speak up and say this is our country. We welcome immigrants just come in the right way.
NOHL ROSEN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: We need to build a wall. And we need to put armed people on the border to keep the illegals out.
TRUMP: They're sending them to us. And we are either putting them in jails or letting them go free. TUCHMAN: But who are they? Who in Mexico according to Donald Trump
is ordering these people to illegally cross the border? He hasn't answer that question until now.
Do you think the president of Mexico, governors of the Mexican states are involved in sending their undesirable people to this country?
TRUMP: Yes, I do. Without question.
TUCHMAN: Donald Trump has masterfully promoted the brand of Donald Trump for decades now and it is only increased this fortune and fame. But even if it doesn't bring him close to the Republican presidential nomination, it is further increasing his fame, which Donald Trump has always ensure.
And at least yet, no sign he will toned it down a notch.
TRUMP: I will win the Latino vote. I have employed tens of thousands of Latinos over the years. I employ many, many Latinos right now, Hispanics. Right now. They love me. I love them.
TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Phoenix.
COOPER: Joining me now, CNN political commentator Ana Navarro, she's a Republican strategist, a supporter of Jeb Bush, and adviser to other GOP candidates. And former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord, who's a contributing editor of "American Spectator." So, Jeffrey, I mean you look at this rally in Phoenix over the weekend. They have to move to a bigger location. Clearly, among the people there is resonating with voters. You see that. In the polls by focusing on illegal immigration. Is that for him a winning strategy or does he have to branch out and talk about a greater variety of topics?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I am sure at some point he will branch out. If you are running for president you will inevitably be talking about all sorts of other issues. And I am sure, he won't hesitate. But clearly, this is an issue. This has touched a nerve. You know, there is two different things going on here that I think are part of the same thing. Ann Coulter's book on the subject, "Adios America" is riding the best- seller list. Donald Trump in a separate situation, is running for president and he's getting all these crowds. There is a deep concern on the part of the American people as this whole incident with El Chapo illustrates all too well.
So, I think that that is a -- you know, very interesting thing here. Sort of the -- the cork has come off the bottle if you will.
Anna, Lindsey Graham said over the weekend, Donald Trump was a wrecking ball for the future of the Republican Party and the Latino community? Do you agree?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: oh, I think he's making things much more difficult. I think we have a lot of work to do as Republicans with the Hispanic community, with my community to begin with. And I think he is not making things easier. I am very happy that there are voices like that of Lindsey Graham and Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, and Chris Christie and Rick Perry and so many other voices that have come out and said Donald Trump is not representative of the Republican Party. Yes, he's speaking to a segment. Yes, he is speaking to anger and frustration from the American people. Who I think are rightly frustrated at the dysfunction of Washington that can't get the immigration issue addressed and solved. The bottom line is we shouldn't have sanctuary cities. Because we should have immigration reform that takes that into consideration. We should have border security. The problem with Donald Trump is that he speaks in a very offensive tone. And he says that everything is bad. But he offers no solutions. Because Anderson, just calling somebody pathetic or a loser or saying that something is baby steps, or saying, I am going to build a wall, and I am going to make Mexico pay for it. Those aren't solutions.
COOPER: Jeffrey? And earlier tonight. Yeah, what about that? I mean that is the criticism ...
LORD: Can I say something?
COOPER: That a lot of it is rhetoric. And when you actually push him on detail solutions, you know, how is he going to get Mexico to pay for a wall that is going to cost potentially billions of dollars?
LORD: Right. Anderson, one of the things I want to say here in terms of the Republican Party and Lindsey Graham and paying for the wall and all this kind of thing. I've spent some time. I have a column in "The American Spectator" tomorrow. And I've gone back and looked. These were precisely the kind of things that were said about Ronald Reagan. Senator Percy from Illinois said that if he was nominated it would signal the beginning of the end of our party as an effective force in American political life. I have a whole string of these things here, in which the exact same thing, sometimes the exact same word. He is not a serious man. He doesn't know what he is talking about. These things are being said about Donald Trump. They will all come out in due time. He is a very smart guy. I am sure he will outline this. I don't have the slightest doubt about this. But this is old news and moderates in the Republican Party have been saying this for decades. And they said it all about Ronald Reagan. And, you know, we know what happened.
COOPER: Jeffrey, you knew Ronald Reagan. And Donald Trump --
NAVARRO: Let me just tell you.
COOPER: And what Donald Trump talks about -- let me just - let me follow up with Jeffrey. Jeffrey, you knew Ronald Reagan. Donald Trump says that he was a fan of Ronald Reagan's obviously. I mean do you believe that Donald Trump has the qualities that Reagan had?
LORD: Well they are different people. Obviously, I mean no two people are alike. But I do believe that he is drawing the same kind of critics who are saying the kind of things. You know, when he is being called a divisive force in the Republican Party. And Nelson Rockefeller said he was a minority in a minority.
COOPER: Right. OK.
LORD: Chapter and verse on this kind of thing.
COOPER: Ana, go ahead.
LORD: Sure, go ahead.
NAVARRO: I don't know what to tell you other than I think comparing Donald Trump to Ronald Reagan should be a sacrilege for any Republican. Ronald Reagan, as you remember, was the governor of the largest state in the union. Today, Anderson, we had Governor Scott Walker, a guy who has won election after election, announce. And here we are talking about a carnival barker who offers no solutions.
NAVARRO: And just points out everything that is wrong with America.
LORD: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
NAVARRO: Without showing optimism, without showing vision, without showing an agenda. You know, so I think that you know, what bothers me about this, is that I think he is sucking up the oxygen. Certainly it is great ratings. Because people like us are on TV fighting about it. But, you know, we're not talking about the really important things that, that should be part of a presidential campaign.
LORD: Anderson, one of the things I find remarkable here, is that he built this entire Trump organization. I mean this is a mammoth organization with these properties all over the world. I mean, he has done a lot more than a lot of governors have done. The notion that this experience is somehow irrelevant or makes him a clown is just a frankly I think bizarre.
COOPER: Well, we will see how he does certainly on the stage when he is face to face with some of these career politicians. That's certainly going to be interesting to watch. Jeffrey Lord, I appreciate it. Ana Navarro, as well.
Coming up, there is breaking news on the little girl whose remains were found in a trash bag near Boston. Hard to imagine. We're going to tell you what toxicology tests are showing now. And also later, meet a six-year-old boy who lost an arm in a shark attack. It happened just a short time ago. His spirit and his optimism that has not been lost. I visited him at his home, just a few days ago. He told me how close he came to dying and what his life is like now.
COOPER: Breaking news tonight in the search for answers after a little girl's remains were found in a trash bag near Boston nearly three weeks ago. Authorities still don't know who she is. But they do have some new pieces of the puzzle tonight. Randi Kaye joins me now. So, what did you learn about how Baby Doe ended up on that shoreline?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, I just got off the phone just a short time ago, with a spokesman for the Suffolk County district attorney's office. And I was told that the working theory right now is that this child was indeed placed on that shoreline, left on those rocks. As you recall, she was wrapped in that black plastic garbage bag that we've been talking about. And the reason that they don't think she was put in the water elsewhere and then simply came ashore there at Deer Island where she was found is based on the condition of her body. There was some talk, also, that maybe she was a missing child from Canada or maybe even Nova Scotia, since she was found so far north in Boston. But authorities now think that that is not the case, Anderson.
COOPER: Also, do you have new information about the toxicology reports on her?
KAYE: I do. I have learned some of the toxicology testing has actually come back. And these are critical tests. Because we know that they're looking to see if perhaps maybe she was poisoned or maybe she ingested some type of poison or drug on her own. And on Friday we had been told that it could take at least a week to get these results back. But I am told tonight that some of them are back and they do not indicate that Baby Doe ingested any type of say, Drano, or bleach, or anything else that might have been easily found, say, under the kitchen sink. So, now they're doing further toxicology tests as a continue to try and figure out what happened to this little girl.
COOPER: And the mystery continues. Randi, I appreciate that. More than 53 million people have seen the computer generated image of the little girl, and more than 714,000 have shared it since it was posted on Facebook. Joining me now is Christi Andrews, the forensic artist who actually created that image. Also, I'm joined by former FBI profiler, Mary Ellen O'Toole.
Christi, what are the steps that you take to create an image that's as accurate as possible?
CHRISTI ANDREWS, FORENSIC ARTIST, NATIONAL CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: We will receive images from law enforcement. Morgue photos. And we will take a look at these photos. And first determine if we can actually clean up the photos themselves. And if there is too much trauma or decomposition we will do an image from scratch if you will. We will use online stock photos as references. And we'll sort of piece together a composite using those references.
COOPER: And the fact that police believe that this little girl was found not long after she died. I assume that makes it somewhat easier to create the image?
ANDREWS: Yeah, they believe they found her very quickly. And so, you know, we are looking at bone structure, hair, the proportions of the face, all these things are going to let us, you know, hopefully be as accurate as possible. But we also like to say these are hope based images. We are not creating portraits of people as much as we would like to. We are creating tools for law enforcement.
COOPER: So, hope based images, you mean explain that?
ANDREWS: We are hoping that there is somebody that knows this child and will see something in that composite that sparks recognition and that they will come forward and say something, and say, you know, I think this could be this person that I know.
COOPER: Mary Ellen, after nearly three weeks, authorities - they are no closer to identifying her. We understand toxicology, at least part of it came back clean. She has no physical signs of abuse that we've heard of. Does it appear to you still that - whoever did this, knew her?
MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER FBI PROFILER: It's just that a four-year- old child, if they go missing they're 99 percent of the time there is a police report. The police report is filed by a babysitter, or by a caregiver, or a family member. So, there is just a remarkable silence surrounding this child. And secondly, a four-year-old child has a very small circle of people that they connect with. Their social footprint is extremely small. So the question here is if she is not known by babysitters, she is not known by a daycare person, why is that? And it, what you have to conclude is that her contacts even with people like that were really very small. And there is very few reasons that would explain keeping a child almost a secret.
COOPER: Christi, I mean, when you do this, there is -- there is obviously you know it's - there is a huge benefit for a, it can help, you know, it can help identify what has happened to somebody.
COOPER: At the same time it is very personal and intimate work. Just personally is it -- is it difficult for you to do this?
ANDREWS: When I first started this job there was a time period where I knew for myself sort of a grace period of getting used to doing this type of work. And then once I got used to, you know seeing these images on a daily basis, it's, you know, I'm doing a job. You know, each case I do feel a little connected to because you are creating an image of somebody, how you feel they looked in life. And so, there is that small connection.
COOPER: And Mary Ellen, the fact that investigators now believe her body was in fact left on the shore and didn't wash up, what does that tell you?
O'TOOLE: Well, that tells me that -- the, amount of time that was spent disposing of her body was really minimal. And, that, that's not -- surprising in any way. And sadly it's hard to say this, but when people are put, children are put in a garbage bag like that and they're just disposed of it's like disposing of garbage. It's sickening to have to say that. But I think that she was disposed of very quickly. And I think the disposal site was one that was expedient for the offender. But I would also say, and they are great investigators up there. They're looking at, this person, being somewhat familiar with that area to dump her there. But it was more done for expedience. It was remote enough, but, hey I am in a hurry. Got to go.
COOPER: Huh. Mary Ellen O'Toole. I appreciate you being with us. And Christi as well. It's just incredible work that you do. Thank you.
ANDREWS: Thank you.
O'TOOLE: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, we do think it is important if anybody seeing those images, that image of that little girl thinks they may recognize any element of it, it doesn't have to be recognizing her face completely, but perhaps just her eyes or even something that she was wearing. Authorities want to hear from you. They're very eager for information.
Coming up tonight, just an amazing young man. Describes the moment a shark bit off his arm. It's everybody's nightmare. Swimming in the ocean. The shark jumped out of the water. Took off his arm. The arm that he is usually uses. Nearly killed him.
COOPER: About to find out what it is like to be attacked by a shark and survive. 16-year-old Hunter Treschle is lucky to be alive tonight. Just four weeks ago he was attacked by a shark off North Carolina's coast where he was vacationing. You may have seen the coverage. There has been a spike in shark attacks of North Carolina's beaches this summer. Quick thinking bystanders kept Hunter from bleeding to death until EMTs could reach him. He survived, but he lost his left arm below the shoulder. Worst of all, he is left- handed, so that makes the recovery even more difficult.
Hunter, though, is a fighter as you will see and he is an optimist. I visited him in Colorado a few days ago. He is an amazing young man. He shared the details of the attack and how close he came to dying.
HUNTER TRESCHLE, SHARK ATTACK SURVIVOR: My cousin and my grandma and I had been on the beach, playing in the sand. I went to wash off the sand and get ready to go home.
COOPER: How deep in the water were you?
TRESCHLE: Waist deep, like maybe two, three feet. Just enough to be able to crouch down and clean off my body.
COOPER: You were not swimming or anything? You just basically waded into the water?
TRESCHLE: I waded into the water. Maybe like here. And then I crouched down, gotten all the sand off and was getting ready to go back in.
COOPER: When was the first time you realized something was near you?
TRESCHLE: Right. So I took one more step forward. I felt something big move against my ankles. And the calves. And so I was like, all right, I'm getting out of here.
COOPER: You actually felt it under water?
TRESCHLE: Yeah. And I was like, oh I'm out, and I started backing off, and it bit my arm. It just jumped out of the water and grabbed my arm. Because I think my hand was still in the water a little bit. So it grabbed that and kind of climbed its way up.
COOPER: So it actually jumped out of the water to get you.
TRESCHLE: It was out of water when it was on my arm.
COOPER: You looked down and you actually saw the shark on the arm.
TRESCHLE: Yeah. That's all I remember seeing of the shark. The top of its head basically.
COOPER: How big was it?
TRESCHLE: My cousin was close to me, he says it was looked like maybe 6, 7, feet. Maybe 8.
TRESCHLE: Yeah, pretty hefty.
COOPER: Was it holding on to you?
TRESCHLE: For a little while, it was. It then kind of slid off and took my arm with it.
COOPER: Was there pain?
TRESCHLE: Not at the time, no. Like it just felt cold. Like there was pain, but it was nothing like you would expect when you get your arm bitten off.
COOPER: Hunter made it back on to the beach but he was losing massive amounts of blood. Witnesses describe blood-red waves washing ashore.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just got his arm bit off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Are you with the person now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband is. He has got it wrapped up in a towel as tight as he can.
COOPER: Did you realize it had taken the arm?
TRESCHLE: Yeah, I realized. Because people were freaking out. And I was -- I'm lying on the beach. My arm is elevated like this. It's like, oh it was, you know, bleeding a lot. There was bone stick out. So, yeah. I didn't really want to look at it.
COOPER: One man tied on a tourniquet before paramedics arrived. The heroics of strangers bought him some time, but didn't completely stop the blood loss.
TRESCHLE: There is a pretty major artery in the arm. It had been severed.
COOPER: Were you worried at that point about losing so much blood that you could die?
TRESCHLE: Yes, at that point I was. I pestered one of the EMTs in the ambulance about that for about 2 1/2, 3 minutes.
COOPER: You mean you were asking, am I going to die?
TRESCHLE: Am I going to die. He was like, you are going to be fine. I'm just like, man, you are just trying to say that because otherwise I will freak out.
COOPER: As Hunter was rushed to the hospital in critical condition, he had no idea he was actually the second shark attack victim on that stretch of beach. Just 90 minutes earlier, 12-year-old Kirsten Yow (ph) was bitten in shallow waters two miles away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The left arm is completely missing. And also a bite to the left leg. Weak pulse.
COOPER: This chopper was sent in to airlift Kirsten to the hospital. Hunter actually saw it fly overhead 90 minutes before he was bitten, and never thought it could be for a shark attack victim. Or that he would soon suffer the same fate. Both lost an arm. But both survived.
COOPER: You're good.
TRESCHLE: I'm getting better.
COOPER: Just a month after the attack, Hunter is fighting for his old life back. He will eventually get a prosthetic limb, but has to wait until his wound is completely healed. The shark took his dominant arm. So Hunter has to learn how to do everything again. From his beloved frisbee to practicing for his driver's license test with his mom.
He can still play video games. But now uses the help of a foot pedal that takes the place of his left hand. Hunter is determined not to let this shark attack slow him down.
TRESCHLE: Beforehand, I had dreams and aspirations of what I wanted to do with my life. There is no reason that should change after losing an arm, really. So it's strange to think, people are like, let's just forget everything I wanted to do beforehand and mope and lay down. COOPER: It would be understandable though to mope.
TRESCHLE: It would be. But I have never been the type to get down about things.
COOPER: Do you find your balance affected?
TRESCHLE: A little bit. Not as bad as you might think.
COOPER: Never the type to get down about things, including the animal that took his arm.
Does it change the way you think about sharks?
TRESCHLE: I mean, not really. They're top of the food chain in the ocean. And humans are not used to being below anything on the food chain. So, it's just -- it is what it is.
COOPER: Would you go swimming again in the ocean?
COOPER: You would?
TRESCHLE: Yeah. I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
COOPER: Because a lot of people would, I don't know, probably want to kill sharks or hate sharks.
TRESCHLE: I have better chances of winning the lottery than getting bit by a shark.
COOPER: Maybe you should start playing the lottery.
TRESCHLE: I actually did a scratchoff when I got back. Didn't win anything, though. It was unfortunate.
COOPER: A friend and a former teacher of Hunter's set up a gofundme page to try to help the Treschle family with their medical bills and travel expenses. As you can imagine, the bills are piling up. If you want to help, go to gofundme.com/hunterersrecovery. We got a link to it on our show blog as well. If you don't remember right now at ac360.com. He's a great, great kid. We'll be right back.