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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Donald Trump Atop Latest GOP Poll; President Obama Weighs in on Drugs and Rape; Sole Survivor; Inside the Drug Kingpin's Tunnel; New Images of Pluto. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 15, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:29] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
A lot to get tonight from President Obama, to Bill Cosby, to Bill Nye and the dwarf planet Pluto.
We begin though with Donald Trump, also known as the current leader or co-leader for the Republican nomination for president. There is new polling tonight on that. And another new number, his net worth. Today, the Trump campaign says it filed papers with federal election officials on his finances. And as only Donald Trump can. The press release offered so much more.
Dana Bash has the bottom line.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm really rich.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just how rich? Donald Trump now says he has a net worth of more than $10 billion and he says he made more than $362 million last year alone.
TRUMP: It is an unbelievable company. Far greater than -- I built that. I built it.
BASH: With classic Trump hubris his campaign calls his wealth so vast it was hard to fill out federal election commission form. If a bidding owned by Mr. From is worth $1.5 billion, the box checked is $50 million or more. Staggering figures released to prove.
TRUMP: Way ahead of schedule.
BASH: Trump told CNN that he is serious about his presidential run.
But Trump did not make the details of his FEC financial disclosure public to verify claims like making $213 million over 14 seasons of his reality show the apprentice. As for GOP voters, it seems the more they see Donald Trump.
TRUMP: The silent majority is back. And we are going to take the country back.
BASH: The more they like him. His favorability rating among Republicans, a key indicator for any candidate, more than doubled from just 23 percent to 57 percent in a new ABC News/"Washington Post" poll. Four in ten say they have an unfavorable view of the candidate. Still the latest numbers may indicate that unlike flash in the pan GOP candidates who surged in 2012.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine, nine, nine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God bless you everyone!
BASH: Donald Trump may have some staying power.
TRUMP: They're killing us at the border and they're killing us in trade. They're killing us.
BASH: Trump's tough at times politically incorrect talk is mainly resonating with a certain segment of the Republican base. In a Suffolk/"USA Today" poll which showed Trump leading the large GOP Pac, those who identify as very conservative view Trump favorably, 47 percent. Those self-described very conservative voters are unlikely to support Jeb Bush in the GOP primary and he is now trying to use Trump as a foil to appeal to more moderate Republicans.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A Republican will never win by striking fear in people any hearts.
TRUMP: How about Ted Cruz and how about Ben Carson and how about others say what Trump said is exactly right. You have to mention them too?
BASH: Those Republican candidates are embracing Trump. In fact, Ted Cruz who has gone out of his way to compliment the billionaire is even meeting privately with Trump in New York today.
COOPER: Dana Bash joins us now. So new Gallup poll was released today. And how Americans think Donald Trump could do with big issues, what were the results? Were they surprising at all?
BASH: Some ways, yes and some ways, no. First, let's start with the really, really rich mantra. Of course, all about making the political argument that if he knows how to make billions for himself he can fix America's finances. And the new poll shows that Republican voters believe that 56 percent say he would do a good job handling the economy, 44 percent though said that he would do a good job handling immigration which shows, where the Republican electorate is on the issue is pretty much split.
Now, on the issue of international affairs, Anderson, Trump isn't doing as well. Only 27 percent, that's one in four Republicans think he would do a good job on Mexico. That means three-quarters aren't buying Trump's argument that he can negotiate deals and handle Mexican leaders better than anybody with regard to illegal immigration. And more broadly, only 23 percent, Anderson, that Republican say that he would do a good job on foreign affairs.
COOPER: All right. Dana bash, thanks.
Let's get perspective now from our panel, Republican panelist, Rich Galen, who once have the permutable job as speaking for House speaker Newt Gingrich, also former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord, he is a contributing editor for "American Spectator" and finally Democratic strategist Paul Begala, he strategizes these days as co-chair of a pro Hillary Clinton super Pac and long-time adviser of president Clinton in the '90s.
So Jeffrey, this press release on Trump's finances what do you make of it? I mean, if in fact, everything seems true, does it make it near impossible for any Republican to compete with him just economically?
[20:05:15] JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR: Well, my first thought was, gee, I guess he's rich. I guess he was right about this.
COOPER: I had the same thought, actually.
LORD: My second thought is, I once, I wish I could tell you who, where I heard this. But somebody said that a fund raiser for Donald Trump is a meeting with his accountant. I do think that this is -- I do think that this is a big deal. We hear how much Jeb Bush raised. We hear how much other candidates have raised or not raising in some cases. This is a man who literally has to make a phone call and make a decision or something approximating that and it's done. So I do think this is a very, very big deal.
COOPER: Does it change the way he then does his campaigning? Because, I mean, you know I think what a lot of people don't realize is how much time a lot of these candidates spend just working the phones, trying to raise money, asking people for money -- Rich.
RICH GALEN, Well yes, he doesn't have to do any of that. But you know there is a limit to how much money can do. And I'm old enough to remember one word, Edsal. I mean, no matter how much money ford spent promoting that car it was a bust. And so, at some point you just get to the diminishing returns level. I mean, there are only so many TV stations in the New Hampshire markets. Only so many in Iowa. Only so many in South Carolina.
COOPER: I mean, Rich, to that point, one, I imagine Donald Trump listening to that and hear you compare him to an Edsal and exploding. But, I mean, to that point he is leading in the polls. And not only that he actually has a quite, large ground operation, in New Hampshire bigger than some of the other candidates out there and there is no indication that -- that's going to stop any time soon.
GALEN: Yes, I just wrote about this the other day. At some point, four years ago, Michele Bachmann led the polls, Herman Cane, Santorum, Gingrich, and you know, it is just one of those things that they come, they go. Everybody kind of feels the good and then says. And in the end it was, of course, Mitt Romney. And I think, you know, I don't think Donald Trump is going to be the nominee of the Republican Party.
COOPER: Paul, it is interesting point about Michele Bachmann leading the polls this time last time. Is Donald Trump in the same category?
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, with all respect to congresswoman Bachmann, no. I do think Trump has a lot more talent. I'm not sure he -- money gives you staying power in politics. Let me just say that, OK? And he has got tons of money. I do think that must infects Republican fed. I am a skeptic that over time he can win the nomination because God is good, he is not that good. I mean, come on. I mean, the good Lord is going to have to make my friend Hillary win this thing.
COOPER: But it's interesting, Jeffrey, because somebody looking at this financial release would say, well look, this guy is, you know, one of the - maybe the richest candidate ever to run for office. I don't know about, you know, looking, way, way, back. But certainly extraordinarily ridge as he frequently will tell you. And yet, it seems like a lot of the people who he is appealing to are not the elites or are not the other, you know, folks who are high up on the economic pyramid. It's, you know, that for all of his money, he is appealing and maybe it is very intentional. But he is appealing to a real constituency that is not at his economic level or anywhere close to it.
LORD: Anderson, I have to say I spent some time with him once. And he does have this Reaganesque ability to communicate with regular folks. He is a New Yorker. He is very plain spoken.
GALEN: He is at 17 percent in the most favorable poll, 17 percent. Even, even, Barack Obama got 37 percent in Iowa. So he has got a long way to go. Plus, you know he is not taking as much out of the, Ron Brownstein had a really good article in the "National Journal" today pointing out the fact that this is coming out of the high. Some of it is Walker, but most of it is, the tea party candidates on the right. Nobody in the Republican Party, I don't believe, is sitting around saying oh, my goodness I'm going to have to decide to between Jeb Bush and Donald Trump. No one is making that decision.
BEGALA: Galen is trying to kill my buzz, Anderson.
COOPER: I know. I know.
Jeff, I thought you were going to put your hand over your ear and start humming, Paul, so you didn't hear this.
But Paul, let me ask you about some of these polls because they are interesting. The ABC/"Washington Post" poll came out today shows Trump leading over Jeb Bush. Same poll, shows over 61 percent of Americans now view Trump as unfavorable. The poll showed 81 percent of Latinos now have an unfavorable view of Trump. Are those numbers surmountable?
BEGALA: No. I mean, well, you can change anything. I shouldn't have been so glib. Yes, but I don't think it is for Donald Trump. You can overcome that polling. It is very early. But when you start to build in your image. And this guy is all about image. And that same image that has driven him up to 57 favorable amongst Republicans, in the same poll has driven him up to a 61 negative among all voters. And so, that's the problem Republicans have right now. And as you
point out, 81 percent negative with Hispanics. The Republican base loves this guy. They love him. The problem is the Republican base isn't the same as America. In Republican primaries, 90 to 95 percent of the voters are white. When we get to general election, 70 to 71 percent are white. That's a totally different country.
[20:10:11] COOPER: And we are certainly - a long way --
LORD: Again, I used to hear this about Ronald Reagan all the time.
BEGALA: They were all white then.
COOPER: All right, Jeffrey Lord, it is good to have you on, Paul Begala, Rich Galen, always. Thank you.
As always, make sure you set your DVR. You can watch 360 anytime you want.
Coming up next, President Obama selling the nuclear deal with Iran and mixing it up with reporters. You will hear some of the contentious exchanges and get perspective from "New York Times" columnist Tom Friedman who joins me tonight.
And the president weighing in on Bill Cosby as well and talk about what he said when "360" continues.
[20:14:56] COOPER: President Obama has defended plenty of big ideas against plenty of tough opposition during his presidency, few though match his defense of yesterday's nuclear deal with Iran. Either in the stakes involved potentially war or peace or the opposition he is facing from Congress. He took that on today and showed a side of himself many observers have not seen from this president.
Jim Acosta was there.
[20:15:18] JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Answering a chorus of critics President Obama came out swinging insisting his nuclear deal with Iran was never designed to solve every problem with Tehran.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This deal is not contingent on Iran changing its behavior. It is not contingent on Iran suddenly operating like a liberal democracy. It solves one particular problem which is making sure they didn't have a bomb.
ACOSTA: The president brushed off the celebrations of the deal as a victory in Iran and even Syria.
OBAMA: It does not give me pause that Mr. Assad or others in Tehran may be trying to spin the deal in a way that they think is favorable to what their constituents want to hear. ACOSTA: And he hit back at opponents in Congress demanding that they
read the agreement.
OBAMA: I think that if Congress does that then, in fact, based on the facts, the majority of Congress should approve of this deal. But, we live in Washington. And politics do intrude. You'll hear some critics say "well we could have negotiated a better deal." OK, what does that mean?
ACOSTA: The president bristled that one question on why Americans currently detained in Iran were not freed as part of the deal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell the country, sir, why you are content with all the fanfare around this deal to leave the conscience of this nation and the strength of this nation unaccounted for in relation to the four Americans?
OBAMA: The notion that I am content, as I celebrate with American citizens languishing in Iranian jails -- major, that's nonsense. And you should know better. I have met with the families of some of those folks. Nobody is content.
ACOSTA: Mr. Obama also touted the agreement's complicated and controversial inspection process dismissing doubts that Iran would get away with cheating.
OBAMA: Suddenly something is missing on the back end they got some explaining to do.
This is not something you hide in a closet. This is not something you put on a dolly and kind of wheel off somewhere.
ACOSTA: The president seemed to thrive on the unanswered questions taking a few extra at the end of his news conference including one on Bill Cosby.
OBAMA: If you give a woman or a man for that matter, without his or her knowledge a drug and then have sex with that person without consent, that's rape.
COOPER: Jim joins us from the White House.
So the president was also asked about state of the Middle East and his legacy there, what did he say?
ACOSTA: Well, it was interesting, Anderson, the president was asked how does he hope to leave the Middle East when he leaves office? And the president raised some eyebrows when he considered he is not going to defeat ISIS as president of the United States nor does he think he is going to settle the Syrian civil war while in office. I even had a chance to ask him at the end of the news conference. You know, he is taking all these different questions from reporters, you know, abut this Iran deal. And where will Iran be at the end of the deal in 10, 15 years from now? And he said, you know, it is not about changing Iran's behavior. He is not holding out hope that Iran will fundamentally change. It is about really just constraining their nuclear program. And that's what this deal is all about. The question is whether or not the public, members of Congress, the international community will accept those answers -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. Jim Acosta, appreciate it. Thank you.
President Obama telegraphed a lot of what he said today when he sat down yesterday with "New York Times" op-ed columnist and best-selling author, Thomas Friedman who joins us now.
Tom, thanks very much for being with us.
To Jim Acosta's point, I mean, the president talking with you is clearly trying to limit the scope of what impact this deal will have to just nuclear weapons over a limited time frame, ten years or more. You believe though that ultimately his legacy on Iran will be determined by whether this deal lead to it, some sort of transformation within Iran and U.S. Iranian relations not just the nuclear issue.
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, OP-ED COLUMNIST, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, the point I was making, Anderson, as I understand, you know, why he wants to limit it to just the scope of the deal itself. Have we set back Iran's ability significantly to weaponize its nuclear program for at least a decade? The point I was simply making is that, you know, I went into journalism in Beirut, Anderson, in 1979 with the Iranian revolution. So my whole journalism career has been framed by the Iran/U.S. cold war. And the fact that Obama has taken through this deal, Obama and the Iranians have taken the first steps to end the cold war inevitably is going to, you know, frame this smaller deal around nuclear weapons in the larger context of did it, did it not get us to the finish line? Did it or did it not lead to a real transformation in this relationship?
COOPER: It was interesting. You wrote some two weeks ago I think it was in an article. You've said this deal could be as big if not big an earthquake in the Middle East as U.S. invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Do you really believe that, that ills the case? I mean, this could cause more upheaval or at least more shock waves than those wars?
FRIEDMAN: Well, you know the way I think about it, Anderson, is you know, imagine your older brother, you know, walk out the door in 1979. And you took this bicycle. I took his stereo. Our sister, you know, took his bunk bed. And you know since for 36 years we kind of really enjoyed a kind of unique relationship alone with mom and dad. Then, one day, in 2015, your brother is back. He says I want my bicycle, I want my bunk bed, I want my stereo, and I want a piece of mom and dad again.
And that's what you have got here. That our allies in the Middle East have really had a kind of monopoly on their relationship with United States, by the way for many good reasons. Iran took itself out by its terrible behavior. But of the fact is, it's coming back now. And it's coming back at a time, Anderson when the Arab world is incredibly weak and disorganized.
And so, they are incredibly worried about their own ability to balance Iran. Israel, I believe, can and will take care of itself. But the Arab world is really becoming in many areas, a human development disaster area. And so, the fact that Iran is now back will have more money and the ability project its power obviously has them freaked out.
[20:22:04] COOPER: And I mean, that's one of the interesting things. I talked to the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. last night in the program. One of the arguments he makes and many others make is look. There is going to be this huge influx set aside the nuclear issue, there is going to be huge influx of money going to Iran now with end of sanctions and that money could be used to form a terrorism around the world by Iran or other bad actions.
President Obama in talking to you said essentially saying look, you have to deal with that separately from this deal. You can't make that argument in relationship to this deal?
FRIEDMAN: We in Israel don't have 100 percent alignment of interests here. That is, we want an Iran that cannot produce a nuclear weapon for as long as possible. Israel does too. That's where our interests overwhelmingly overlap. But beyond that we can actually live with, I don't want to say necessarily a strong Iran but a healthy Iran.
Israel's point of view is -- it not only doesn't want Iran to have nuclear weapons. It doesn't want a strong Iran either. Now I understand why. Because Iran has been supporting some of Israel's worst enemies, Hamas, Hezbollah, to name just two.
But there is a divergence of interests here because ultimately, we want an Iran healthy enough to balance the Sunni Arab world so we don't have to do that. I understand Israel's position. That's a separate issue. This is a complicated story.
COOPER: Yes, to say the least.
And President Obama is clearly though framing this is in the interview with you as a deal with the same kind of rationale as Nixon negotiating with China, with Reagan and the Soviet Union.
FRIEDMAN: Yes. I mean, his point is simply, we negotiate arms control agreements on and off with the Soviet Union, sometimes we stopped when they invaded Afghanistan. Sometimes we continued because we were concerned over one overarching thing. The fact that they had a nuclear pistol loaded and aimed at our head. And we said, you know, we are going to deal with that overarching threat. First, foremost, and overall. We are going to have to deal with Iran the same way.
I would just say this, Anderson, there is one party in the whole story who we really haven't heard from very much yet. And that's the Iranian people. Now I am not here to tell you I have any idea how they're going to react to the deal in the long run whether there will be a transformation. I think one should be very, very circumspect about that and certainly not make any predictions. But the fact is they mounted a revolution in 2009. OK. They picked
out Rouhani. Remember what the Iranian election, I think they allowed five men to run. They were Mr. Black, Mr. Black, Mr. Black, Mr. Black, Mr. Light Black, Mr. Light black. Mr. Light Black was Rouhani, OK? The one the Iranian people perceived as just a little more liberal and more inclined to open Iran up to the world. And the majority of Iranians rushed to him.
So that tells you something that is down there. One thing you learn when you go to Iran is the Iranian people, they have had enough Islam crammed down their throat to know they want less. And they had enough democracy to know they want more of it. So I am going to watch that space.
[20:25:03] COOPER: I have only been there once. I was there for four days. And I was arrested for three of them. So I didn't really get to see much. But, I hope to go back.
Tom, thank you very much.
COOPER: Coming up next. More on that other remarkable moment at the White House today, when President Obama weighed in on Bill Cosby. One of his accusers is joining us with her reaction.
And later as the video surfaces of El Chapo ducking out of his cell, we will take you inside the tunnel he used to escaped and update you on the manhunt.
[20:28:53] COOPER: Today, President Obama was asked whether Bill Cosby's medal of freedom will be revoked now that dozens of women said he raped them and documents have been released showing Cosby admitted under oath that he had Quaaludes to give to moment he wanted to have sex with.
President was ask about Cosby during his press conference today. He said there is no precedent or mechanism for revoking a medal of freedom which was given to Cosby. But he made it pretty clear what he thinks of Cosby's admission. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If you give a woman or a man for that matter without his or her knowledge a drug and then have sex with that person without consent that's rape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well after that press conference, one of Cosby's alleged victims, model Beverly Johnson wrote this on twitter. President Obama states on TV drugging and having sex with a woman after is called rape.
Beverly Johnson joins me now on the phone.
I am wondering when you heard the president actually say that, weighing in against Bill Cosby, what went through your mind?
BEVERLY JOHNSON, COSBY'S ACCUSER (via phone): Well, Anderson, I am in D.C. presently at a speaking engagement. And I was in the hotel room when the television was on CNN as I normally have it on CNN. And so, I was - my heart was beating really fast. I believe that the President Obama has his finger on the pulse of this nation. And what he said was very profound and very powerful. And much needed.
COOPER: The fact that it was the president of the United States speaking from the podium, does it give you a sense that the tide has really turned now here? That so many people now based really particularly on once they saw the deposition that Cosby gave, in which he admitted to buying Quaaludes, with multiple prescriptions from the - going back to the 1970s. Do you think the tide has turned?
JOHNSON: I think the tide has turned with the fact that there is a rape culture in America. And you know, on the college campuses, on the work place and also with this Cosby situation. So I really feel that -- it even has a more, it has more impact than just this Cosby situation.
COOPER: The president said that there is no precedent or mechanism for actually revoking Bill Cosby's Medal of Freedom, which we just saw him getting there. Did you -- do you accept that? Does it matter to you that he has this?
JOHNSON: For me what matters is that's we are having a conversation about violence on women. In a way from the highest office in our nation and that's, you know, President Obama. For me that matters.
COOPER: And that conversation is certainly going to be had a lot of places tonight as it has been for many nights since all of this broke. Beverly Johnson, I appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much.
JOHNSON: Thank you for having me.
COOPER: Joining me now, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos, also attorney and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin. Areva, you believe that President Obama weighing in on this controversy is a big moment for survivors of abuse?
AREVA MARTIN, CNN COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. When you have someone in his position, the president of the United States saying that if a woman is drugged and you have sex with that woman that constitutes rape. I think women who have come forward with respect to the allegations against Bill Cosby will feel a sense of vindication. I think those women who are fearful of coming forward when they have been in similar situations will also be empowered by the words of the president. So, I think it was a good moment for survivors as well as advocates.
COOPER: Mark, does it seem to you that President Obama is now kind of weighing in on controversial topics that maybe earlier in his presidency he didn't?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Precisely. I think that you are seeing Obama 2.0 in terms of these things. Today it's weighing in on, you know, what the, kind of a professorial definition of rape. Yesterday it was talking about the criminal justice system is broken. You know, something that is obvious to those of us in it. But to have the president say that is spectacular. And I think that there has been kind of an unleashing if you will of him and what he wants to say. Although, I will give - I'll temper that with when he says there is no precedent for revoking the Medal of Honor, you know he could set that precedent.
COOPER: Medal of Freedom we should point out. You think ...
GERAGOS: Medal of Freedom.
COOPER: You think he could put in some sort of a way to revoke it?
GERAGOS: Absolutely. Look, if - with one stroke of the pen this week he could get rid of 47 federal criminal convictions. One stroke of the pen he could get rid of the medal or revoke the medal as well. And as Areva says, you know, this is an important moment for women who are victims to, kind of rejoice in, and somebody recognizes this. Whether it is the women who are victims of Bill Cosby, or, you know, - and the victim of Dr. Luka (ph), this is a monumental moment for a lot of victims in this country.
COOPER: And Areva, you really believe, I mean you sort of alluded to this, that the more attention this Cosby case gets that the greater the likelihood that women will come forward whether it's about directly related to Cosby or other cases, other forms of abuse?
MARTIN: Absolutely, Anderson. You know, I've been saying this on your program since the story broke. That this is important. For those people who keep saying, why are we talking about this, the statutes of limitation have run. And there is nothing that can be done. I say that is absolutely false. That by talking about it and pushing the story as much as possible. We are giving permission to those women who are often afraid to come forward.
MARTIN: And who knows. There are maybe women who were subjected to Bill Cosby's, you know, drug and drug induced sex, that is rape, that happened within the statute of limitations. And they haven't been willing to come forward. Because they were afraid. Because he is powerful. Because he is rich. Because someone may not have believed him. Because they didn't think that they could have a platform from which to speak. So I think the more we talk about it, the president, shows like yours, national shows, the more it is written about, the more we are going to start to see a shift in what we call the rape culture. And women feeling as if they have a way to come forward and their voices are going to be heard.
COOPER: Mark Geragos, Areva Martin, thank you very much. Coming up, breaking news in Washington State, where a 16-year-old girl hiked her way to safety after the plane crash that killed her step grandparents. The wreckage of that plane we've just learned has now been found. Full details coming up. And later, we'll take you inside the tunnel that drug lord El Chapo used to escape from a maximum security Mexican prison. We've also got new surveillance video just before he escaped. That's next.
COOPER: There's breaking news tonight in the plane crash that a 16- year-old girl walked away from, but her step grandparents sadly did not. Autumn Veatch is home in Washington State tonight after the incredible ordeal in the mountains. She was released from the hospital just last night. And it was just moments ago we learned that the wreckage of the plane has now been located. Dan Simon joins us with details. Dan, what do you know?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, authorities have confirmed that they did find the plane wreckage. This is a very steep area. Very vertical according to crews. In fact, when they still got there they were telling us that the plane was still on fire, and this was in such a remote area that the crews actually had to rope end to get to that particular place. We know that at this point the NTSB is investigating. And it's now been turned over to them. As for the 16- year-old, she is now at home resting comfortably. But still, there's been so much amazement as to how she got down that mountain. The whole ordeal surrounding it. And we went to that area to take a look for ourselves.
SIMON: How did she do it? Survive a fiery plane crash with only minor injuries. Autumn Veatch leaving the hospital after one day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She really had the courage and will to continue on when, you know, she was in a very scary situation. And she is, exhibited an amazing amount of strength.
SIMON: We wanted to see what she was up against.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The country she is in is incredible. It is super thick.
SIMON: This gives you an idea of the elements and surroundings that Autumn first encountered. This is the middle of the wilderness surrounded only by trees and in very rough terrain. We are talking about a 16-year-old girl, she's got no professional hiking experience. What is somebody like that supposed to do? Most people wouldn't venture out here without the proper gear. Boots. Compass. Map. All essentials for a rugged outdoors person. Autumn had only the clothes on her back. Her cell phone was destroyed in the wreckage, but even if it worked there is no cell signal for miles. It is thick, dense, vegetation. And the terrain is extremely steep. Some ridges still dotted with snow. One of the first things you noticed, is that it's a good, 20 to 25 degrees cooler at this elevation. And it can get pretty cold at night. That's just one of the challenges that Autumn faced. Another challenge was just figuring out where to go. Well, it turns out that perhaps the smartest decision that she made was to follow the water. She followed it downstream. And that's eventually led her to a hiking path and that path led to a highway where she was picked up by those good Samaritans.
The plane en route from Montana to Autumn's home state of Washington crashed on Saturday afternoon. She was with her step grandparents, Leiland and Sharon Bowman. And according to authorities she tried to save them.
(on camera): Did she tell you how she tried to save them?
SHERIFF FRANK ROGERS, OKANOGAN COUNTY, WASHINGTON: She had reached in trying to grab in and pull them out. But she said there was so much fire that she couldn't. It burned her hand.
COOPER: She told the sheriff that she stayed with the wreckage for a time until realizing that the only way to save herself was to somehow go down this treacherous terrain. Autumn didn't have any food with her but she did have access to plenty of water. The natural kind. She told authorities that she did take sips out of a creek like this, but was afraid that drinking too much would make her sick.
She emerged severely dehydrated along with moderate burns, cuts, and bruises. But otherwise okay.
SARA, FAMILY FRIEND: If nothing else this girl has a strong, strong will. And you know, her coming out and being able to leave the hospital this quickly just goes to show that.
SIMON: The plane that crashed, is a 1949 Bechlt (ph) A-35. Not an airplane for beginners, expert say. Authorities haven't said how much flying experience the pilot Leiland Bowman had.
ROGERS: She said, as she got into the clouds, she knew that something was wrong. She said they came out of the clouds. And she said, all she saw was trees. And grandpa tried to pull the plane up. Couldn't. And basically bellied in. Hitting the trees. And then went down. And she said, immediately caught on fire.
COOPER: Dan, have authorities said anything yet about recovering the bodies of the victims.
SIMON: They haven't. At this point they're just saying that the whole investigation is being turned over to the NTSB. But they did confirmed that they found the two bodies at this point. Things seem to be wrapped up. I guess the concern right now is just trying to figure out how the plane went down. We know that the plane encountered turbulence just before it crashed. And according to weather radar, there were some thunderstorms in the area just before the plane disappeared from radar, but, of course, it is going to be up to the NTSB to figure out exactly what happened.
COOPER: Right. Great news they finally found it. Dan Simon. Thank you.
As the search continues for Joaqin Guzman, El Chapo, head of Mexico's Sinaloa drug cartel. We have got new pictures tonight of his escape. Surveillance video from inside the so called maximum security prison in Mexico shows him ducking into the prison - the shower of his prison cell. Fully clothed. Then sitting on his bed. Changing his shoes. And going back into the shower.
And that's the last we see of him. Authorities say he went into a hole under the shower and then escaped through the mile-long tunnel. CNN's Nick Valencia actually got inside the tunnel. Here is what he found.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the closest we have been allowed to get to El Chapo's tunnel. The tunnel he used in his brazen escape on Saturday night. It is all by accounts a magnificent feat of engineering. Let's come of on in and see exactly what, exactly what El Chapo here had in store. A small little exit. Just a couple feet wide and a couple feet long. You see with the ladder, maybe 10 foot, 15 foot ladder that leads down into that tunnel. The room here is nothing to brag about. It is empty. Full of cinder blocks. You can see these containers full of dirt here. These wheelbarrows full of dirt here.
Here we go. [ speaking foreign language ] OK. Any loose -- here is another ladder leading down to another part, deeper part, section of the tunnel. It's a ways down. You can see here this is the modified motorcycle that investigators showed us images of before this is on a -- on a track. And you can roll back and forth. See that. There is buckets left behind. Look at this. Left behind, oxygen tanks as well in order for them to survive down here. It is a very tight space. I can't even stand up. I am about 5'10", I can't even stand up all the way. It is just a remarkable, remarkable feat of engineering.
The tunnel stretches for more than a mile. Carved out earth here. And this modified train tracks for that minimotorcycle. You see here, electricity lines. It's very difficult to breathe down here. A lot of dirt. Dust. And this here for the ventilation system. Tight. Tight space down here. But for a man known as El Chapo, I'm sure he had more than enough to work, room to work with. This motorcycle was on a track here. This is the bike that El Chapo used to ride out of the prison. It still has gas in it. This battery also left behind perhaps to power that modified motorcycle. You can still smell the gas. This overwhelming odor of gas in this tight space. It really is suffocating.
COOPER: Nick Valencia joins us now. Incredible to see and to actually get down inside that tunnel. And that it went for a mile like that. The space where the tunnel ended, that you showed us. Did anybody live there?
VALENCIA: We spoke to multiple farmers in the area. They said in the months leading up to El Chapo's escape, they saw two middle-aged men coming and going. They mostly keep to themselves, but they would wave to the local farmers as they drove down that dirt road. Up until now, Mexican officials have said that no one was living in that house. But when we were there, we saw evidence of it, Anderson, including Christmas lights hung on the outside, as well as some dirty dishes on the stove left behind. Anderson.
COOPER: Nick Valencia. Appreciate it. Great.
Coming up, Pluto is ready for its close-up. Incredible images. Scientists learning from historic NASA images of the dwarf planet. I'm going to speak with Miles O'Brien and Bill Nye the Science Guy next.
COOPER: Today the world got its closest and clearest look yet at Pluto. I am a big nerd. This is pretty amazing. NASA released this image, beamed back by NASA's new Horizon spacecraft after completing its historic fly-by. The detail on it is amazing. Those bumps are ice mountains. The images were captured as the probe bypassed the dwarf planet about 40 times faster than a speeding bullet. It is the fastest spacecraft ever launched, and it still took it nearly a decade to reach Pluto, a journey of more than 3 billion miles. Joining me now, CNN aviation analyst, Miles O'Brien, also Bill Nye, the Science Guy and also the author of "Undeniable." These pictures are incredibly exciting. I know you were there for the launch of this thing. The mountains. This large bright spot, called the heart. They even show ice. What are we learning about Pluto from these images?
BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: We don't know yet. The first thing I think anybody looking at it would say it has geologic regions. It's not just a uniform ice ball. There is a lot more going on there. There is five to seven different geologic places. There's snow made of nitrogen. Nitro-snow. There seems to be a tar, a really long chain carbon molecule, nitro tar on Pluto. These are things that people really didn't expect.
COOPER: And it will take a long time to scientists to analyze these images.
NYE: Yesterday in the press conference, somebody made a joke, well, this looks a 56-k modem. It's a 1k modem. 1,000 bits a second. It is so far out there. The dish, the transmitting dish, is barely as wide as you and I are apart. Yes, it's amazing. People have been talking about this mission. I was in Senator Mikulski's office in the year 2000. People really wanted the mission to Pluto. We had 10,000 postcards from the Planetary Society members. And so, 15 years later, here we are.
COOPER: Miles, it is remarkable that this New Horizon spacecraft was able to survive the fly-by. What was it up against? And it boggles my mind. I'm terrible at math and science. But the fact that they're able to -- you know, get it so close, so perfectly in the right spot. Nine, ten years later. Nuts to me.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: These are the people who do real well with math. And it's an amazing navigational challenge, which they succeed with.
What's interesting about this mission, is going back to that decision back in 2000, as Bill was talking about, how do we design this mission? One of the things they wanted to do was make it kind of lean, and mean, and fast. So that's why we have a spacecraft that moved very quickly. Fastest spacecraft to leave earth. It made it to the moon, our moon, in nine hours. It took Apollo astronauts 4 days to do it. So it made a beeline for Pluto and does not have the fuel or rocketry on board. It's weight saving, cost saving. That would allow it to enter the orbit of Pluto.
This is such a provocative piece of data that we've seen here today, just the first glimpse of it. But I am sure we are going to want to think about going there again.
COOPER: Bill, I know said that ever since you were a little kid, you have wondered about Pluto.
COOPER: And even now, even in the course of this mission, the scientists' understanding of Pluto has changed. They thought is was a planet before.
NYE: Is it a planet? Is it a dwarf planet? I don't want to get into the planet thing. Instead I want a new class of objects that I like to call the Plutoids. So this is the third--
COOPER: What is a Plutoid?
NYE : The archetypical Plutoid is Pluto. So there's - you heard of the three solar systems, have you heard the story?
COOPER: No. I told you, I know nothing.
NYE: Yeah, you do. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, rocky, have iron, or nickel insides. Solid things. Okay. Get past that, there is the gas giants, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune. After that, thousands of these icy worlds that now are not all ice. They've got tar and snow and I don't know. And so those would be the Plutoids.
COOPER: Bill Nye, great to have you here. Miles O'Brien as well. Be right back.
COOPER: That does it for us. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again 11:00 p.m. Eastern for another edition of "360." "Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown" starts right now.