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Three Americans Still Behind Bars in Iran, One More Missing; Can Donald Trump Afford to Run for President?; Former President George H.W. Bush Hospitalized. Aired 10-11:00p ET

Aired July 15, 2015 - 22:00   ET


[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Three Americans still behind bars in Iran. One more is missing. President Obama says he won't rest until they all come home. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. The president calling out the network reporter who suggested he was content to leave those four Americans in Iran.


BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: Major, that's nonsense. And you should know better.


LEMON: Plus, the $10 billion man. That's what Donald Trump says he is worth. But can he afford to run for president? We'll do the math for you. And I'm going to talk exclusively to the "Celebrity Apprentice" contestant and rock & roll hall of famer who's got some surprising views on Donald Trump.

But I want to begin this broadcast with CNN's chief congressional correspondent, none other than Dana Bash. And Dana joins us now from Washington. So, Dana, the question is, Donald Trump put his money really where his mouth is, and sooner than expected. So, what's the bottom line here?

DANA BASH, CNN'S CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That bottom line is that he says he's got a net worth of $10 billion, Don, and an income of last year alone of $362 million. He also says that the television show that he was on, the "Apprentice" that you were just talking about, says he earned about $213 million over the 14 seasons.

But here is the important but. We can't verify this because we don't have the details of the financial disclosure form. He hasn't put it out there yet, and the SEC isn't required to do so until 30 days after it's filed. So, we're not entirely sure with all the details are and how he actually has amassed this wealth that he says he has.

LEMON: OK. So, what did we learn about how he is funding his campaign, Dana?

BASH: Really interesting, of course, as I mentioned and as he's mentioned, he's really, really rich. So, he has the money to put into his campaign. And he has done that about $1.5 million. Just as of June 30th, Don, he only announced two weeks before that. But, the interesting thing that his campaign has put out is that he has gotten some unsolicited donations. They say it's about $92,000 from a relatively small donor dollars. And so, they're trying to argue that, you know, this is part of 'Trump-mania,' if you will, that even people who know that he doesn't need money want to show their support.

LEMON: Did he mention he's really rich? So, Dana, let's also talk about this latest poll, though, which many people find interesting. There is a massive shift in his favorability rating. So, what's going on? Are some people starting to like his hair and everything that comes with it?

BASH: Maybe they like him despite his hair, Don.


BASH: You see it on the screen there, 57 percent favorability rating. That's more than double what he had in the same poll in May. And just six weeks ago, that's what. And you know, 65 percent of republicans were viewing him unfavorably then. But when it comes to Hispanic voters, I'm sure this is not going to be surprising given all the controversy about his comment. Trump is hurting. He's unfavorability rating is now 81 percent. These 8 and 10 Hispanic voters don't like Donald Trump and that's up from 60 percent in May.

LEMON: Yes. You know, he has been having a bit of trouble when it comes to the establishment, especially those who are running for president. In a meeting that's sure to raise some establishment hackles. Ted Cruz met with Trump today at Trump Tower, just a few blocks away from here. What are your sources telling you about this meeting?

BASH: Well, you know, each camp has a different take on exactly who asked for the meeting. But, look, Donald Trump is playing in Ted Cruz's lane here. Cruz has been the guy, as you just alluded to, who has been appealing most successfully over the past several years to republicans who want to take on the establishment in Washington. But, you know, Cruz has actually been complimentary from the start of Donald Trump. And today, he tried to get in on 'Trump-mania.' Listen to what he said after the meeting.


TED CRUZ, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I am a big fan of Donald's. We talked about the race. We talked about how we each have enjoying it, and about how there is a need for more truth-tellers. Well, one of the things I respect about Donald Trump is he's willing to stand up and speak the truth and he's willing to take on Washington. And, you know, there are not a lot of people in politics that are willing to take on career politician than both parties, democrats and republicans. I think people are fed up with what I call the Washington cartel.


BASH: Don, he's talking about the truth. The truth is Trump is a lot more likely to take votes away from Ted Cruz's world than more moderate candidates. So, we'll see how long this 'bro-mance' lasts.

LEMON: I like it 'bro-mance.' Thank you very much, Dana Bash. I appreciate it. $10 million not chump change, but is it enough for Donald Trump? So, joining me now is William Cohan, he's the author of "The Price of Silence" and contributing editor also at Vanity Fair Magazine. Thank you. Good to see you here.


[22:04:57] LEMON: OK. So, let's talk about this. The big number is $10 million, right? If we can put that up. More money than pretty much any voter would ever fathom having. So, you took a look at this for us. So, break it down. What's going on here?

COHAN: Well, first of all, you have to understand about Donald's $10 billion number.

LEMON: Right.

COHAN: It's pretty subjective because it's not like he is Mark Zuckerberg who owns 30 percent of Facebook, whatever, which is a publicly traded company that we can figure out every day of the week what he's worth. Donald -- all of Donald's empire is virtually private.


COHAN: He owns some small stakes in some publicly traded casino companies.

LEMON: All right. Let's go through some of it and then you can continue.


LEMON: According to -- this is a statement Trump made at $362 million last year. But here is something shocking. That apparently excludes dividends. So, if it excludes dividends, interest and capital gains, rent and royalties...

COHAN: What is it?

LEMON: So, he made a whole heck of a lot more than that?

COHAN: If you include those other things like dividends, which he clearly has on the stock and capital gains. He showed us in that little summary that he put together that he made $27 million in profit from selling a bunch of stocks in January 2014.


COHAN: Not sure why he did that. But, you know, so there is a lot more money that he's making.

LEMON: All right. I want to get to that. I want to go to this. So, Trump also points out that he made nearly $214 million from the "Apprentice." Is that plausible $214 million?

COHAN: That is over what, the 10 or 13 years that the show has been airing. Yes, it's possible. He is a big star and big stars get paid well, you know. How he made $325 million last year -- outside of his net worth of $10 billion -- is kind of a mystery for us.

LEMON: It's a mystery. OK. So, now let's talk about this $27 million you're talking about for these taxes.

COHAN: Sure.

LEMON: The money that he made from selling stocks, he says in 2014, he made over $27 million. That's a lot of money. You see something interesting in that. What is that?

COHAN: A couple interesting things. First of all, he may have sold too early. Because 2014 was a good year in the stock market. 2015 has been a pretty OK year. I mean, this is not a time necessarily to be selling stocks. He had a lot of gains embedded in two stocks like Bank of America and Boeing.

LEMON: So, that was a bad investment decision? Donald Trump making a bad investment decision?

COHAN: Well, I mean, when you've made so much money, it's never a bad decision to take some money off the table. But even Donald Trump has left money on the table. Because he could have ridden it out a little bit longer and made more money.

LEMON: You also took notice of Trump's hedge funds, right, which is Holsen and Angela, Gordon. What is that?

COHAN: Well, they are, you know, two high-powered, well-known New York hedge funds. Both of -- neither of which have done particularly well as far as Trump's accounting is concerned. Which is kind of interesting, you know, that a big, sophisticated investor like Donald Trump would choose two hedge fund managers who haven't had particularly good year over the last couple years.

LEMON: So, I spoke with Stephen Baldwin last night on this show and he said, he was golfing. I'm golfing with some hedge fund people, hedge fund managers out there. And he said, they like what he's saying. What is Wall Street's read on Donald Trump?

COHAN: Oh, look, you know, first of all you can never underestimate Donald Trump, not in business, not in politics. I mean, he's been talking about getting into this political race for years and never has. Now that he has, you know, people are forced to take him seriously. But as far as Wall Street is concerned, Wall Street doesn't do business with Donald Trump.

I mean, the last Wall Street esque (ph) firm that did firm business with Donald Trump Deutsche Bank which helped finance his tower that he built in Chicago. He turned around after 2008 and sued Deutsche Bank. Deutsche Bank then sued him and they resolved that matter relatively amicably. But when you're suing your lenders who want you to pay back their money and you're not doing it, then people on Wall Street really don't like that and don't like to be sued.


LEMON: So, he's not as you know, he's not afraid of suing. He's suing Univision to tell you for $500 million. I want to ask you about this. So, he's number 133 on Forbes richest people in the United States, that's in 2014. Compared that to everyone else who is running, I mean, I don't know, isn't that a good thing?

COHAN: Well, it means he can probably finance his own campaign. And to the extent that -- you know, in that sense he's sort of like Michael Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York who's worth $30 billion who financed his campaigns in New York and wasn't behold into anybody. I mean, that kind of straight talk without having to being behold to the political operatives is very appealing. At this particular junction it seems to have a lot of appeal. But we don't really know the real extent of Donald's wealth.

LEMON: Yes. It just seems like it should be appealing to the American people that he's not behold to anyone.

COHAN: Right. And that's why I think he's popular right now.

LEMON: Thank you, Mr. Cohan. I appreciate you coming in and joining us here tonight. My next guest is a legend of rock and roll and former "Celebrity Apprentice" contestant who has known Donald Trump for years. But that didn't save him from this.


DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have no choice. You know that. Gene, you're fired.


TRUMP: I don't know why you did this. I had no choice. Thank you. So long.


LEMON: So, Gene Simmons joins me exclusively now. Did that moment hurt, Gene?

[22:09:59] SIMMONS: No, not at all. I had to be in Australia in three weeks for the start of the Kiss Tour. So, I had to finagle a way and climb on a sleep. But, you know, it's TV, you know that, Don.

LEMON: Yes. And he's playing a character and the people on there are playing characters as well.

SIMMONS: No. I don't really think. I think what you see is what you get with Donald Trump. I've known him for a long time. You know, despite what television actors do, which is play parts, Donald Trump is Donald Trump.

LEMON: What can you tell me...


SIMMONS: What matters to him, he is.

LEMON: ... do you think he's in it to win it?

SIMMONS: Oh, yeas. He's in it to win it every time, with anything he does. And that's what makes him fascinating and perhaps that's what resonates with people. So, I suspect the end of the world is coming soon because, when CNN wants to know what Gene Simmons thinks about one of the presidential candidates, the next thing you know the people are going to be asking Jeb Bush what he thinks about Led Zeppelin.

Because I can't wait for that to happen. So, let me give my caveat, 'caveat emptor.' That's not English for all of you guys. That means, buyer beware, kind of, sort of. Look, I'm one individual. I'm one voter. So, my vote is not worth any more than Don Lemon's or anybody else's. The richest and the poorest have one vote.

So, I will vote my conscience at the ballot box. What I do think is happening with the political spectrum, whether we're talking about Donald Trump or anybody else is, it's really become unkind. It's ungentlemanly, what we can all use is a chance to understand that Al Qaeda and the Taliban and all the bad guys in the world hate all of us. Far left, far right. We're all just Americans. It has to do...


LEMON: Are you saying, though, that Donald Trump has become ungentlemanly? Is that -- what's happening in the political...


SIMMONS: I do. I do. You know, he is smarter than that, he is better than that. And we all have our private feelings about stuff. But I believe -- look, I'm an immigrant. I came to this country because my mother and I wanted a better life. We did come in legally, and I do understand that there is an issue with a lot of Americans.

They are afraid, what's happening to America, the borders are unguarded. I get it! Fear creates all kinds of havoc. Sometimes it creates hate.


SIMMONS: And when you're talking about 10 to 20 million illegal immigrants, I don't care where they come from, Sweden or anybody else -- or anywhere else, you start to talk about the border.


LEMON: So, then what do you say to him? I know you say that, you know, my -- your vote doesn't count any more than mine and I agree with you. But you know him a lot better than most people which is the reason that you're here, to give us some insight on who the man is. So, how -- would you have him change his rhetoric? What would you have to do?

SIMMONS: Donald Trump is a loving family man. His children have turned out terrific. He is anti-drug, anti-booze. The guy is a straight shooter. Does that mean you agree with his politics or that I do? That's beside the point. If you're talking about the man, he is an upstanding guy. His views on Mexico or the wall or stuff like that, look, do yourself a favor, go to the ballot box. Vote your conscience.

I am glad that the far left and the far right get a chance to have a voice in there. Put Bernie and Donald together on stage and go with it. You know? Whether or not they're there at the end of the race. See, what I would like to see is just to have a one-off between Hillary, who I think is terrific and has a lot to say and a lot to offer and is more of a centrist, as far as I'm concerned or should be, and Donald. And have at it.

Let us sit back. Ultimately, we are the judge and jury. And that's the way it should be. We the people, remember, we're in charge, not the people who are trying to govern us. And that's a good point.

LEMON: Yes. And we have to deal with that the whole political process. But, you know, the one thing you said that I think many people agree with, Donald Trump has been married and divorced, marry and divorce. You don't see his ex-wives talking...


SIMMONS: Like most..

LEMON: Yes, like most Americans. I'm not saying...

SIMMONS: Like most Americans.

LEMON: But you don't see his ex-wives talking about him and you don't see his kids falling out of clubs or getting into trouble.

SIMMONS: Well, that's precisely the point.

LEMON: He's handled his family very well.

SIMMONS: Your children are a good gauge of what kind of a person you are.


SIMMONS: I don't mean -- politics aside.


SIMMONS: We're talking about a legitimate, upstanding guy.

LEMON: We have to run, Gene.

SIMMONS: You may hate -- you may hate what he has to say, but vote your conscience at the ballot box. LEMON: Thank you. Love to have you back. I appreciate it. Gene

Simmons. When we come right back, Donald Trump looks to be the richest man ever to run for president. So, how will that change the campaign? We're going to talk about it. Plus, President Obama says he is fearless now and he is showing it by taking a victory lap on the Iran deal and calling out a network reporter. Also, Cait's big debut. Caitlyn Jenner at the ESPY Awards tonight.


LEMON: Donald Trump is the new $10 billion man of American politics and he wants you to know it. So, joining me now to discuss all of this, talk about Trump's chances. CNN political contributor and former Obama administration official, Mr. Van Jones, also CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and national security editor for The Blaze, Buck Sexton. Good to have all of you.

Gloria, so, it's our second time talking today. So, I feel very honored. You know, we both know that Donald Trump loves to talk about just how much money he makes.


LEMON: Right?

BORGER: He does.

LEMON: It's not really typical of most candidates, is it?

BORGER: You know, it really isn't. I mean, Donald Trump, I think you've heard him say it, that he's very, very rich, right? I mean, this is going to be his bumper sticker. You know, the politicians that I cover who have some wealth often have a really difficult time talking about their wealth.

Remember how Hillary Clinton started this campaign, saying that they were dead broke when they left the White House, and then she had to turn somersaults to kind of get herself out of that spot saying, you know, I know we have a lot more money than most Americans. And Mitt Romney in the last campaign made a $10,000 bet. He said his wife had a couple Cadillacs. Got in a lot of trouble for that.

But here you have Donald Trump coming in saying, you know what, I'm rich. You should vote for me because I'm successful. I can make you successful. And all of this, Don, at a time when income inequality is kind of the buzzword of this campaign. So, he kind of goes against the grain and says, vote for me because I am going to give you the same kind of success that I have had.


[22:19:56] LEMON: But people are also talking about -- I mean, we've been discussing for years, Gloria, you know this better than I am because that's your bailiwick, politics. Candidates have to raise a lot of money.


LEMON: People always complain about them being beholden to special interest. Wouldn't it be nice to have a president who's not beholden to outside money the way Michael Bloomberg was here in New York City?

BORGER: Sure. I think that, you know, I think...

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: It would be nice to have a president who wasn't delusional.

LEMON: Let her answer the question and you can get in there, Van. But, go ahead.

BORGER: No. I mean, Look, I think that's part of the appeal of Donald Trump, as Dana Bash pointed out earlier. He hasn't raised a lot of money.


BORGER: And he can self-finance. So, sure, he can say that. I'm not going to beholden to special interests. But I don't think that's what his campaign is going to be about.

LEMON: Go ahead, Van. Sorry to cut you off.

JONES: No. I didn't mean to jump in. Listen. He has an abundance of wealth, financial wealth, but his intellectual capital seems to be waning. This guy is completely delusional. If he were not...


LEMON: Why do you say that, though? And why do you say? Because he can't be -- hang on. Let me make a point here. He can't be a silly man or stupid man or delusional in any way in order for him to be as successful as he is. Maybe he's not eloquent in his language. Maybe he could -- he's not -- maybe he's inelegant or unartful in his language. But is it necessary to call him stupid or dumb or...

JONES: I dare said he's not dumb. He's smart. He is a smart guy. He is a business savvy guy, but he is delusional about the way the world works. He continues to say that the Mexican government is deliberately sending people here who are rapists and murderers. Well, wait a second.

The people are coming here -- there are 14 million people here who don't have papers. They're not rapists and murderers; there may be some tiny percentage. But much more importantly, the government is not sending them here. They're coming here on their own. He doesn't understand how the world works, apparently. And he says all kind of other stuff. That he's going to go and take jobs in these people and move factories in there. Presidents can't do that. So, he's delusional about how the job works to be president.

LEMON: All right. Go ahead, Bob.

BUCK SEXTON, EX-CIA AGENT: Well, I was just going to say. Look, he's a very successful businessman, obviously, he's a good entertainer. I respect his side-swoop hair. But the fact of the matter is that, even for conservatives like me, we don't think that this going a distance. We've seen this before. It's weird we put in the position where you have to sort of say this because I think there is a tremendous focus on the Trump -- that the Trump bump right now, if you will, in the polls.

The reality is it would be more fun to talk about the open socialist that are running on the democratic ticket right now, but still, we have to look at what's going on right now. And Trump's appeal is that he's speaking in a way that is very direct and very honest to a lot of people in the conservatives. A lot of people in the conservative base and that's getting him some traction.


LEMON: Well, the problem is...

SEXTON: Well, he is not a conservative.

LEMON: He is second place in Iowa and in New Hampshire. The Iowa caucus is just over six months from today. I mean, if he is still at the top of the heap, so what then? What happened then?


SEXTON: But, Don, it's a very fractured field right now. This is -- the novelty of a Trump presidency, which is kind of a strange thing to say, because we've been here many times before and he's dropped out for one reason or another. But this sort of in moment novelty he's going to be aware off, he says things that are not going to be defensible in the long term. He says like, I'll tell you how to defeat ISI. To somebody work for the CIA working against insurgencies, Donald Trump does not know how to defeat ISIS. So, when he says things like that he's opening himself up.

LEMON: Gloria, I want to let you respond but I want to put this poll up, Gloria, then it's turn. This is from the latest presidential election cycle. This is from October of 2011. Even closer to the first primaries than we are now. And look at -- we don't have it up here. But the guy who is at the top of the poll it was Herman Cain. He did not get elected as president.

BORGER: Right.

LEMON: So, is there a similarity there?

BORGER: No. Look, I think in the last campaign, as we all know, everybody had their 15 minutes of fame. And I think that Donald Trump has had a lot more impact on the conversation than Herman Cain did. I mean, remember 9,9,9, the tax plan? I mean, that, you know, didn't last for very long.

LEMON: But, Gloria, it wasn't really his policies that took him down. It was this alleged affair that he had.

BORGER: Right.


LEMON: That's what took him down. Yes, the scandal.

BORGER: Right, right. But I think and there you have the -- and there you have the poll. Look, I think the danger for republicans, and I think this is what Buck is getting at, is not so much that they all believe that Donald Trump is going to be the nominee. I don't think they do.

I think what they're worried about is that he has taken over the conversation. And that there are other candidates need to find a place to get some oxygen themselves. And that when you have this debate coming up in early August, each of these candidates will have to figure out a way to deal with Donald Trump without letting him dominate...



SEXTON: I think..

BORGER: ... the conversation.

LEMON: Stand by, stand by, guys. I have to get to a break.

SEXTON: She's correct. OK.

LEMON: But we'll continue on the other side of this. So, stay with me everyone. Donald Trump isn't the only one talking tough these days. When we come right back, a newly energized President Obama taking a victory lap. We'll be right back.


LEMON: My panel is back with me now. Van Jones, Gloria Borger, Buck Sexton. Guys, there is a new President Obama in town today. Gloria and I talked about this. I think it's Obama 3.0. 1.0 was first. The second, before the re-election it was 2.0. This is 3.0. He says, he is fearless now and saying exactly what he thinks about the Iran deal, about race injustice and even about Bill Cosby in his hour-long news conference at the White House.

So, Buck, we've been talking a lot about the President. Obama unleashed, so to speak, that he feels freer toward the end of his term. He certainly unleashed on CBS reporter Major Garrett who asked him about hostages in Iran. Take a look.


Can you tell the country, sir, why you are content with all the fanfare around this deal to leave the conscience of this nation, the strength of this nation unaccounted for in relation to these four Americans? And last week, the chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff said, under no

circumstances should there be any relief for Iran in terms of ballistic missiles or conventional weapons. It is perceived that that was a last minute capitulation in these negotiations. Many in The Pentagon feel you left the chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff hung out to dry. Could you comment.

BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: I've got to give you credit, Major, for how you craft those questions. The notion that I'm content, as I celebrate with American citizens languishing in Iranian jails? Major, that's nonsense. And you should know better. I've met with the families of some of those folks. Nobody is content.


LEMON: So, Buck, Buck, what do you think of the question? Was it fair?

BUCK SEXTON, EX-CIA AGENT: Yes, I think the question is absolutely fair. I was under the impression that the press is supposed to ask tough questions. I mean, this is a real moment, this moment in time here where the president has pushed for this Iran deal. He knows his entire legacy, certainly his foreign policy legacy sort of hangs in the balance of this deal. And I think that this in large part is about the president for the president. I think that's what sort of what comes across here. If you want to see what a tough question looks like...


SEXTON: If you want to see what a tough question looks like go back and watch how the press were talking to President Bush in 2006, 2007, essentially accusing him of being a liar, a war criminal. All sorts of things that will be completely beyond the pale. This isn't beyond the pale. It's a tough question among a lot of others sort of...


LEMON: But, Buck, it's not mutually exclusive. That people can be disrespectful to President Bush or President Obama and also be disrespectful to these presidents.

SEXTON: Right. But it's a question of degree and comparison. And I think if you were to compare it to other questions that other presidents have gotten this is not beyond the pale. I think President Obama's reaction was extreme.


LEMON: But I think people would say, I think people would say...

JONES: Oh, my, God.

LEMON: ... if there was a question that was beyond the pale for another president, we would be saying that it was beyond the pale. I don't even know if that has to be a scale. SEXTON: No. I'm just trying to give you a sense of scale. I don't

think this question was beyond the pale. And I think that given, when we look at the deal -- initially it was read the deal and you'll find out more. When you look at the deal it looks actually worse. And that's what America woke up to today. This deal is a complete capitulation. It ends the sanctions regime. The Iranians didn't make a single top concession. You cannot point to one.

LEMON: Let Van get in here. Go ahead, Van.

JONES: Well, first of all, almost everything you just said is counter- factual. But before we talk about the deal, let's talk about that exchange. I don't think that the president said it was beyond the pale. I think he said that it was -- that was -- that was more of a Shakespearean.

LEMON: So, he should ignore better.

JONES: That was more of a Shakespearean soliloquy. You're right. They're supposed to go and ask questions, not editorialize and to that kind of think. I think the president was right to throw a bush-back pitch. I remember Bill Clinton walking out of press conferences. So, the idea that somehow, Obama have an extreme reaction, that was not an extreme reaction. It was a brush-back pitch in our business as perfectly fine.

What I'm proud of is this president stood there, not for 15 minutes, not for 20, for an entire hour, and he answered every single question that was brought forward. Including some of these false things you just said, and he answered very well. He is not ducking. He is not running. He is proud, he is strong. And he actually has done that...


LEMON: Well, Van, I want to Gloria, I don't know about you, but I was waiting for the president's anger translator to walk out. Remember this moment from the White House correspondent's dinner?


OBAMA: You know, I often joke about tensions between me and the press. But honestly, what they say doesn't bother me. I understand we have an adversarial system. I am a mellow sort of guy. That's why I invited Luther, my anger translator, to join me here tonight.


LUTHER: Hold on to your lily white butts!

OBAMA: In our fast-changing world, traditions like the White House correspondents dinner are important.

LUTHER: I mean, really! What is this dinner? And why am I required to come to it? Jeb Bush, do you really want to

do this?


LEMON: Gloria, his response, I thought he was going to go not quite that extreme. But I thought he was going to go there a little bit, but he held his cool.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN'S CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: he was -- it seemed like he was kind of counting to 10 there. Look, I think what you're seeing in this president is somebody different, as you were pointing out earlier. This is -- this is a president who understands that he is going to be out of office in a short period of time. He felt today -- I mean, not only did he answer questions. He asked himself questions.


BORGER: And then he answered them because he did get the questions that he wanted to talk about this -- to talk about the Iran nuclear deal.

LEMON: Right.

BORGER: You know, this is a president who is speaking his mind more now because he is very well aware that history will judge him not only by what he's done but also by his words.


BORGER: And, you know, that's what I think we saw today on a lot of different fronts, including the Bill Cosby front.

LEMON: Yes. I was just going to say -- but I can't to. I'm sorry, guys. But we are going to talk about Bill Cosby but I have some breaking news to get to. So, I want to thank all three of you again. This won't be the last time we talk about this.

[22:35:06] We have some breaking news tonight that I need to report. Former President George H.W. Bush in the hospital after a fall this morning at his home in Kennebunkport, Maine. Again, George H.W. Bush in the hospital after a fall in his home in Kennebunkport, Maine. He has a broken bone in his neck but the injury is not life-threatening.

Again, that's according to his spokesman. The 91-year-old former president was never disoriented and his condition is very stable tonight. His spokesman says they are not expecting a long hospital stay. We'll keep you updated on the former president's condition.

Now I want to -- you to think about this next story. You're looking at the art exhibit, an art exhibit in Chicago. It's about the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson; the slain teenager's father calls it disgusting. How will you feel -- how would you feel if this were your child there? But is there more to the story? I'm going to talk to the owners of the gallery and the artist next.


[22:39:59] LEMON: An art exhibit in Chicago has a lot of people up in arms tonight. It is a life-sized portrayal of the death of Michael Brown. Michael Brown is the teenager who was shot by a police officer in Ferguson last August.

The exhibit called "Confronting Truths: Wake Up." It opened last Friday. Michael Brown's father calls it disturbing and disgusting and says he would like it to be taken down. But is there more to the story? Joining me now the artist Ti-Rock Moore and Frances and Andre Guichard, co-owners of the Guichard Gallery where the art is on display.

Good to have all of you to talk about this. Ti-Rock, you are the artist behind this exhibit. What was your intention?

TI-ROCK MOORE, "CONFRONTING TRUTH: WAKE UP" ARTIST: My intention was -- my race plays a pivotal role in my work. You know, I was born with unearned advantages because of the color of my skin, and those unearned advantages, white privilege, are remnants of slavery. And I was conveying the denial of white privilege in this country as part of my work.

LEMON: And you don't think -- what do you think of the father -- the father -- I think the family and some people would think that it's exploitative. You don't agree with that, even with your, you know, with the intention of showing white privilege?

MOORE: The installation that you're speaking of is called "Black Angels" and that was a -- I handled that from the beginning very -- with great respect. My first order of business was to get the permission of Michael Brown's mother and father to do the installation.


MOORE: And unfortunately, I got Michael Brown's mother's permission and thought everybody was on board but found out after the opening of the exhibit that Mr. Brown had not been advised. And I have great regrets about that.

LEMON: So, Andre, you know, Michael Brown's father, as I said, said that it was disturbing and disgusting. Are you going to honor his wishes here and have the exhibit removed, or are you going to stand by the exhibit and have people come in and see it?

ANDRE GUICHARD, GUICHARD GALLERY CO-OWNER: Well, as Ti-Rock mentioned, we did do our due diligence. We reached out to the family, and we requested permission, and we were able to reach the mother, Lesley McSpadden, the great aunt and his cousin, Eric Davis, and they were all excited about the exhibition. We followed up with a detailed letter explaining the exhibit and what was involved, and we sent that letter addressed to both parents.

After the exhibit opened, I received a call that Mike Brown Sr. did not know about the exhibit. I personally called Mike, and I told him, I apologize for our assumption as a team that there was communication and at that time he told me that he had a separate family and a separate foundation.

I then offered him to allow us to share other opportunities with this platform of this exhibition by allowing him to have his foundation mentioned, and he could give information about the work he was doing with his foundation. He told us he would get back to us, but he never did.

LEMON: So, I understand the gallery plans to donate 10 percent of the money from the artwork sold at the charity to ending police violence. So, how much are you -- how much are you selling artwork for?

GUICHARD: Well, I would like to clarify that if I could, Don. We actually are going to give 10 percent of any piece sold, because there are actually 50 pieces in the entire exhibit. A lot of attention has been given to the "Black Angels" piece, but each of the pieces speaks to a different conversation, and depending on what piece sells, we'll investigate a foundation that speaks to that type of work.


GUICHARD: Because we do believe that it is an important part of the exhibit that we do donate in addition to giving information about foundations that are doing work on the ground so people who are interested can also support.

LEMON: I wanted to spend more time, but we have breaking news with the former president, of the staff to get to and with former President George H.W. Bush. I want to thank you Ti-Rock and also Frances and Andre. I appreciate you coming on CNN.

MOORE: Thank you, Don.

FRANCES: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Coming up. Caitlyn Jenner gets an award for courage. An award that's also gone to Pat Tillman, Nelson Mandela, and Muhammad Ali. She just took the stage. But some of the people aren't so happy about it. We're going to talk about that when we come right back.


LEMON: Let's talk about this. Caitlyn Jenner just appeared at the ESPY Awards at L.A. tonight where the Olympic gold medal winner got the Arthur Ashe Award as a big moment. But not everybody is celebrating.

So, joining me now to talk about it is Eden Lane, she's the first openly transgender television reporter and also the host of PBS In Focus with Eden Lane. Also with me tonight is Christine Brennan, CNN sports analyst and columnist for USA Today. So, Eden, Caitlyn Jenner just accepted the Arthur Ashe Award for Courage over, left the stage. Did she deserve it?

EDEN LANE, PBS IN FOCUS SHOW HOST: Well, you know, they have their own criteria for choosing whoever receives that award. Named for an incredible athlete and a great citizen, Arthur Ashe. And I think their criteria is their own. They could have given it to so many people because courage is exemplified in so many different ways. It's just one example of courage and I think it's not a bad one. LEMON: You know, she received the award moments ago and we can report

that here's what she said. She said, "If you want to call me names and make jokes, I can take it, but the thousands of kids coming to terms with their identity, they shouldn't have to take it." What's your reaction, Eden?

[22:50:00] LANE: That's one of the most important things about Caitlyn Jenner's media exposure and receiving this award. The conversations that can happen in living rooms, among families across America that can help provide safe space for thousands of young people across our country who may, or may not be transgender. And they have safe space to be among their families. They don't deserve to be called names or have hateful things spread about them. So, I think it was a real moment of leadership for her to use that time to talk about that.

LEMON: Christine, last year, Michael Sam got this award. The first pro-football player to come out. Not everyone thinks that Caitlyn is deserving. Everyone thought he is deserving. So, let's listen to what Bob Costas said on The Dan Patrick Show just a week ago about Caitlyn Jenner.


BOB COSTAS, NBC SPORTS NEWSCASTER: I wish Caitlyn all the happiness in the world and all the peace of mind in the world. However, it strikes me that awarding the Arthur Ashe Award to Caitlyn Jenner is just a crass exploitation play. It's a tabloid play.


LEMON: So, that was a few weeks ago. So, Christine, what was the purpose of this award, and is Bob Costas right?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, USA TODAY SPORTS COLUMNIST: I love Bob Costas. He is a good friend but I think in this case he's wrong. And here's why. First of all, this is a made for TV event. It's not the end of the world. ESPN as Eden said, can do what it wants. This award also is at the intersection of our culture and often transcends sports. Nelson Mandela has won it. Michael Sam, Billy Jean King.

So, it's fine and it sounds like that the speech, which we weren't able to see because we are on the air here. But the speech it actually sounds like it solidified the decision. And if it helps one kid who is having some issues, I think we all agree it is already a victory.

But, the reality here is, Don, that ESPN often goes outside the box and does things that are societal and are important to our culture. In this case that certainly fits the bill there with Caitlyn Jenner. I understand the issues that Bob had and other people have had him. So, some of the people watching us right now have issues with it, Don.

And that's because of the reality TV component of Bruce Jenner, Caitlyn Jenner's life. If Bruce Jenner had remained an Olympic athlete, a coach and announcer and stayed in the sports realm, I don't think we would have had that issue come up. But the reality TV aspect of the Kardashians makes it a little more problematic. But at the end of the day I think it was the right choice and it sounds like that speech made sure it was the right choice.

LEMON: Just before the award, Google ran an ad about transitioning, a major corporation that would have been unthinkable even a year ago. So, Eden, I mean, that -- when, you know, Christine is talking about the change and intersection of culture and sports and what have you. I mean, that certainly does speak to it, doesn't it?

LANE: It absolutely does. I didn't get a chance to see that ad. But when Corporate America is making space for all Americans to feel part of the society, when the government is looking for how to transition, as it were, to allow military service that already exists, that trans already serve in the military, we can see our country is looking for ways to embrace all Americans, including transgender Americans.

And that's a very exciting thing. It's not without its bumps in the road not without backlash. But I think it's one of the most American things that we can see happening.

LEMON: And we had the ad. I don't know if we can put it up again. But that was the ad that was running on your screen, there that you just saw, the Google ad. Let's see, can we listen to a little of it?


LEMON: Yes. And again, that's a Google ad. Now I want to thank Eden Lane and also Christine Brennan. I appreciate both of you joining us here this evening.

LANE: Thank you.

LEMON: We'll be right back.


LEMON: Chicago is reeling from gun violence, mostly on the city's south and west sides. Familiar neighborhood to this week's CNN Hero. A surgeon who has treated hundreds of gunshot victims. But here today he has another mission. Meet Dr. Daniel Ivankovich.


DANIEL IVANKOVICH, CNN HERO: Barbed wire and machine guns, welcome to Chicago. These are definitely some of the most challenged communities in America. Not a day goes by without the headlines being littered with deaths, shootings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was returning home from college. You know, I went to pick up my sister from school. And the next thing I know, I got caught up in a crossfire. I was shot seven times. I was paralyzed from the stomach all the way down.

IVANKOVICH: As an orthopedic surgeon, I have seen a significant number of patients that have been victims of violent crime. But there is a whole other layer of patients in these underserved communities that are underinsured and they're uninsured but they need care. If you could get the final 20 degrees... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

IVANKOVICH: I just saw people put on wait lists for months and even years. And as a result, their injuries get worse. And I just said, enough is enough.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess I'm just stuck with arthritis.

IVANKOVICH: I run three clinics in Chicago's most underserved areas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Been walking better.

IVANKOVICH: Well, you smile more. We treat orthopedic conditions. We never turn away a patient. We treat patients regardless of ability to pay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He performed two surgeries on me and encouraged me to return back to college.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of I guys never come out as positive as you. I mean, you're living life and you're moving on.

IVANKOVICH: I know I can't fix everybody, but my focus is to break down the barriers.

I'll see you in a couple of weeks!

The greatest thing we give them is hope.


LEMON: To nominate a hero go to That's it for us tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you for watching. AC360 starts right now.