Return to Transcripts main page

NEW DAY

Trump Won't Apologize for Attacks on McCain; FBI Investigates Text from Tennessee Gunman; Deposition: Cosby Paid Women to Keep Sex Secret; Pro Surfer Speaks Out about Shark Attack. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 20, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured, OK? I hate to tell you.

[05:58:45] RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump owes John McCain an apology.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's nothing funny about the hate he is spewing.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not just absurd; it's offensive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New information is revealed about the Chattanooga shooter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a history of mental illness, depression and drug abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man was suffering from a lot of demons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another bombshell in the scandal surrounding Bill Cosby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was taking advantage of people who looked up to him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's classic narcissistic psychopathic behavior.

MICK FANNING, PROFESSIONAL SURFER: And I felt something get stuck on my leg. It just coming at my board. And I was just, like, kicking and screaming.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Look at that.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Isn't that beautiful? CAMEROTA: That is beautiful.

CUOMO: As the haze burns off in New York City, we say good morning to you and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, July 20, 6 a.m. in the East. And it turns out even Donald Trump can go too far. Is he really resisting calls to apologize for mocking McCain's war record?

CAMEROTA: It looks like it, because this morning in a new op-ed in "USA Today," Trump continues his attacks on McCain. He says, "I don't need to be lectured by failed politicians."

The comments, of course, come on the heels of Trump's suggestion that McCain is only a war hero because he was captured.

Let's go to CNN's chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash. She's been busy this weekend. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a new op-ed in "USA Today," Donald Trump remains defiant, ramping up his attack on John McCain, saying, "The reality is that John McCain, the politician has made America less safe" and "McCain has abandoned our veterans. I will fight for them."

The billionaire sparked a fast and furious bipartisan backlash over the weekend, taking direct aim at McCain...

TRUMP: He's not a war hero.

BASH: ... who still wears the scars of five years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, after his plane was shot down.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: His name is Admiral John McCain.

BASH: Even turning down early release, because of his father's high rank in the Navy. Trump was speaking at a gathering of conservatives in Iowa Saturday.

TRUMP: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. OK? I hate to tell you.

BASH: He tried to clean up his comments at first with reporters.

TRUMP: If a person's captured, they're a hero as far as I'm concerned.

BASH: And on Twitter, saying, "Captured or not, all soldiers are heroes." But that didn't stop the deluge of disgust from Republicans, most who hoped to knock the real-estate mogul from his surprise stop atop the GOP presidential Field.

RUBIO: It's not just absurd. It's offensive. It's ridiculous. And I do think it is a disqualifier as commander in chief.

PERRY: Donald Trump owes every American veteran and, in particular, John McCain an apology.

BASH: Even the Republican National Committee said, "There is no place in our party or our country for Trump's comments."

Trump's words only escalate an ongoing feud with McCain over illegal immigration. McCain had accused Trump of rallying crazies with his event a little more than a week ago in McCain's home state of Arizona. In his new op-ed, Trump said McCain "would rather protect the Iraqi border than Arizona's."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Trump continues to talk about how much he's done for veterans, donating his money and his time to a New York City memorial. But Alisyn and groups, veterans groups, they're not buying it. A commander of the VFW said someone who never served, referring to Trump, a day in a uniform should not criticize the sacrifice and service of a combat -- somebody who's wounded in combat, calling it despicable -- Alisyn and Chris.

CAMEROTA: OK, Dana. Thanks for all of that.

So does all of this hurt Donald Trump's campaign or does it help it? CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman is here and CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York One, Errol Louis.

Great to see both of you.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: It's been a busy weekend. But let me just pose that question to you, Maggie. Because after he made these comments about John McCain, he got a standing ovation. So does it hurt his campaign or does it help it somehow?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It actually depends on who you talk to. Frank Luntz, who asked the question, the pollster, said that there were boos, that there were other people who did better. Trump says, "I did get a standing ovation." Other people in the room said that, too.

I think that Trump is at, what, about 18 percent in the polls? It's not like he's at 50 percent. You have to assume that that 18 percent of people who he's appealing to probably are not great fans of John McCain already. And I think that when you have the entire establishment of the GOP criticizing Donald Trump, it makes him look better with the base.

Where I think he hurt himself was in two ways. One, I do think that the weight of the commentary against him at some point is going to make people look at his words more carefully.

But No. 2, in Iowa -- and this is really an issue that mattered to Iowa -- he was asked a question about faith. And he answered it in a way where it was essentially saying, "I don't really ask God for forgiveness" or "I don't know" in response to a question, "Do you ask God for forgiveness?" That actually will cause him a problem there.

CUOMO: You know, this has been really interesting to watch this unfold. If it were anyone else, Errol, other than Donald Trump who had said something, that this is political suicide when you attack wounded prisoners of war, especially the likes of John McCain. They would be done. He probably will not be done. But do you believe there is a lesson in this?

LOUIS: I don't -- well, here is the interesting lesson to me. Is that this is not so much a campaign as a complaint. You know, when I hear Trump talk, he's got a grievance. And there are a lot of other people who have a grievance. And part of that grievance, very much, is that -- that McCain was a flawed candidate in 2008.

I went back and looked at some of the complaints about him from veterans organizations. There were some who stood up and said, "McCain has not been perfect on our issues." And they look back -- you look back at his votes in 2005, 2006, 2007. And he's voting against funding for V.A. facilities. He's voting for expanding help to veterans. And some of that is a little questionable.

CUOMO: A world of difference than mocking his status as a prisoner of war. You can say he stinks on the issues; and you're a veteran, and it bothers you even more. This is a totally universe...

LOUIS: This is a pattern. He says something outrageous, and people say, "Well, how can you say that? You know, politically, you're going to be dead." And then he does this little pivot. He did the same thing on immigration. He does this little pivot, and now you start looking at and you start talking about issues. It is not, by any means, a traditional way of doing politics, but it is a way of doing politics.

[06:05:09] CAMEROTA: But I am curious about the facts. Let me read to you a portion of what Donald Trump said in his op-ed last night in "USA Today." He says, "McCain has abandoned our veterans. I will fight for them. The reality is that John McCain, the politician, has made America less safe." Now, he also said in this op-ed that veterans affairs have been his top priority, Donald Trump's.

Is this accurate? Has John McCain not stood up for veterans? Has Donald Trump stood up throughout his business career for veterans?

HABERMAN: I think you need (ph) to Truth Squad that. I think that here are -- as Errol said, I think there are complaints against John McCain, regardless of -- and he is unequivocally seen as a hero in terms of, just to be clear, to your point. You've never really heard that questioned before, in that way. And certainly, when you look at a race like 2004 with John Kerry, where you did see somebody's military record being called into question.

In terms of Trump, he has talked about veterans' issues on and off. I don't think he has made it his centerpiece of his campaign.

CAMEROTA: And given lots of money to veterans? HABERMAN: What I am aware of that he has been involved in is

helping with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in New York City. And that was the centerpiece of this statement in response to this.

To Errol's point, he takes an issue, and then he pivots, and he shaves it a different way. Then he focuses on something else. And at the end of the day, Donald Trump is not running the kind of campaign that we have really ever seen before. So you know, the closest thing would be Ross Perot. Even Ross Perot's campaign was not like this. We are looking at something different.

CUOMO: And it becomes why, though? Why is this different? Why is this new? You could argue pretty constructively that Donald Trump is the rabbit; he's the pace setter. And you have a group of Republicans who now, they're all coming out and attacking him for the obvious reason. But the challenge is who is going to be better? He's bringing out the outrage; he's bringing out the complaints, as you say. Now it's, well, who is going to do something about it and be better? Otherwise, he stays where he is.

LOUIS: Well, that's right. I mean, look, he talks, in many ways like a movement candidate. In other words, he's talking about the conservative movement. And he's reflecting a lot of their talking points. It is by no means -- you listen to a little right-wing radio, it is by no means new or novel to complain about John McCain in those...

CUOMO: This way, though.

LOUIS: Right. Well, right, in that way. I mean, we don't usually see it from somebody who says he wants to be president.

By the way, as far as the Truth Squad, this is back in 1985 when they created a Vietnam Memorial here in New York. It was long overdue; it was a scandal that it had not happened. But they needed two and a half million dollars. Trump put up half of that.

When they wanted to have a parade, I think, in the 1990s, it was Trump who gave another $1 million. And he cites those in his article. So we're talking about a couple of million dollars that he himself claims that he's done. Set that against the weight and the history of what McCain has done over the decades, and it's really apples and bowling balls.

CAMEROTA: Now you have a -- you have a really interesting piece in "The New York Times" this morning about Donald Trump, looking inside Donald Trump's campaign and who is advising him on PR moves, on policy decisions? Does he have a circle of advisers, or is this all coming from Donald Trump?

HABERMAN: It's a man named Donald Trump, is his own best adviser. Look, I mean, he has a very small brain trust around him. But essentially, they don't -- they're not people who pull his coat. They're not people who say to him, "This might not be a great idea. Don't say it this way." There are discussions like that. There was no discussion after what happened on Saturday about

apologizing. That is just not a word that is in his vocabulary. You are never going to hear that from him. What you heard instead was a lot of pushback and then him pointing to, "Then I later said he was a hero. So you're taking my word out of context."

You're going to see a lot more like that in the coming days.

CUOMO: I would be very surprised if we don't hear Donald Trump qualify his statements about what he thinks about veterans and prisoners of war and those who have been injured in service, including John McCain. I would be shocked. He is many things; one of them is not stupid.

However, though, when you look at the rest of the Republican Field, he's turning and saying, "Look at them complain about me now." Does he have a point? You know, they weren't out there on his comments about immigrants the way they are about POWs.

And, you know, as a collective outrage, you know, we'll want to look back in history. Remember John Kerry? Remember what happened with John Kerry and his record? Say what you want about John Kerry, but do you remember the swift boat ads? There wasn't collective outrage there. Is this a little self-serving, as well?

LOUIS: Of course. Look, I mean, Donald Trump made a lot of disparaging comments about the commander in chief when he went after President Obama and, even after the first birth records were published online, he's never apologized or stepped back.

CUOMO: The rest of them, the rest of them say he owes an apology, and they're looking very earnestly at the camera.

LOUIS: You could very well ask the rest of the Field, "He's disparaged the president; he's disparaged John McCain. He's disparaged immigrants. He's said all kinds of crazy things. You claim to be part of the same general political wing of American leadership. What have you got to say about it? And, you know, how are you going to stand up to Putin if you can't stand up to Trump?"

HABERMAN: It's not -- it's not helpful to the party as a brand. It's not helpful to the individual candidates that most of them would not say a word after his comments about immigrants, about his comments about Mexico, boycott Mexico and so forth. Most of them said nothing. Reince Priebus, party chairman, called him very privately, had a very different recollection of that conversation, I think, depending on who you believed and how it went. And then it was, when he insulted McCain, suddenly people felt that was a bridge too far.

Democrats are openly gleeful about that and saying, "Take a look at this. That's not exactly a profile in courage."

[06:10:08] CAMEROTA: Maggie, Errol, it's going to be an interesting week.

LOUIS: Absolutely. CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for starting it off with us. It's

great to see you.

CUOMO: I still think it raises that question: Who is going to be better? You can criticize what he does, but you're going to have to be better to beat him. Let's see what happens next.

The latest now on those deadly shootings at two Tennessee military facilities. The FBI is looking into a text that the shooter sent to a friend just before the attack. This comes as we learn from the gunman's family that he was facing mental health issues ever since he was a teen.

CNN's Sara Ganim live in Chattanooga. She has the latest on this. What do you see?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

Investigators here still struggling to figure out why this shooting happened. As the community here continues to grieve and pay their respects to the growing memorial behind me, it's clear there are still many unanswered questions about the shooter, his life and what led to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): As funerals begin for the fallen soldiers, new information is revealed about Chattanooga shooter Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez's mental health. The 24-year-old had a hard time keeping a job because of struggles with manic-depressive bipolar disorder, depression and drug use. That's according to a source familiar with the family's interviews with investigators.

He had sought treatment with a psychiatrist, and the family told investigators they sent Abdulazeez to Jordan in 2014 to get away from friends in Tennessee they thought were a bad influence.

Just hours before killing five U.S. military personnel and wounding two others, he sent a text that may be a possible clue into his motive. In response to an unknown message sent by one of his friends, he texted back a link, that said in part, quote, "Whoever shows enmity to a friend of mine, then I have declared war against him." Investigators say the text is being analyzed as only, quote, "one piece of the puzzle."

This, as new video surfaces from a 2006 high school project on religion, showing the gunman reciting verses of the Koran in Arabic. Friends and associates have told CNN he was a devout Muslim but at the time, showed no signs of extremism.

Meanwhile, family members and friends mourn the loss of their loved ones.

KIP WELLS, FATHER OF SKIP WELLS: Skip had a big heart, and he wanted to make a difference in the world.

GANIM: The father of 21-year-old victim Lance Corporal Skip Wells shared his heartbreak on Sunday.

WELLS: With everything going on, he wanted to help out. And being in the Marine Corps is where he thought he could do the most good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Now, investigators say nothing has yet connected the shooter to ISIS or any other U.S. -- I'm sorry, any other terror group. And he was not on any U.S. terror watch list or database for terrorists that were being watched -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Just a couple of the things that make this so troubling. Sara, thanks so much.

Now to the latest bombshell involving Bill Cosby. Revelations in the newly-released deposition from a lawsuit filed ten years ago against the comedian. And in them, Cosby admits trying to pay women to keep affairs from his wife. He also reveals how he attempted, he thinks, to seduce many of them.

CNN's Alexandra Field joins us now with the latest.

What have you read in there, Alexandra?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

We know that this was done ten years ago in Philadelphia, part of a civil suit filed by one of his accusers. In this deposition, Bill Cosby talks about sexual relationships outside his marriage. He answers questions about Quaaludes. He tells attorneys what Mrs. Cosby did and did not know, but he doesn't admit to any wrongdoing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): The deposition is nearly 1,000 pages long, and what emerges is a clearer picture of Bill Cosby in his own words. Cosby answered questions as part of a 2005 lawsuit that Andrea Constand brought against him for allegedly drugging and sexually assaulting her.

Cosby said the sexual encounters with Constand were consensual. "I don't hear her say anything," he said. "And I don't feel her say anything, and so I continue; and I go into the area that is somewhere between permission and rejection. I am not stopped."

Over the past 40 years, more than 25 women have publicly accused Cosby of raping or assaulting them. In the deposition, Cosby says both the sex and the pills were consensual, the star saying he looked for women's nonverbal cues in response to his sexual advances.

BARBARA BOWMAN, COSBY ACCUSER: I don't believe in nonverbal cues. Consent is not the absence of a "no." And when you're -- when you're stuffing drugs or alcohol into a woman, and then calling it sex, it's diabolical; it's disgusting. It's unacceptable, and it's rape. And that's a crime. [06:15:08] FIELD: The 78-year-old has never faced criminal

charges. In the deposition, he admits to offering Constand money for education and trying to keep his wife, Camille Cosby, in the dark. "My wife would not know it was because Andrea and I had had sex and that Andrea was now very, very upset."

These revelations, sickening to the women who have publicly accused Cosby.

JANICE DICKINSON, COSBY ACCUSER: It sickens me, but I have to be strong.

FIELD: The transcript reveals more about the use of Quaaludes. Cosby admits giving the drug to a young woman in Las Vegas before they had sex in the 1970s. The lawyer says, "She said that she believes she was not in the position to consent to intercourse after you gave her the drug. Do you believe that is correct?"

"I don't know," Cosby replied.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: "Consensual," it is the word that Cosby uses throughout that deposition over and over again to talk about the sexual activities and also to talk about those Quaaludes.

We have reached out to Bill Cosby's publicist, who says he has no comment at this time. We have not been able to obtain a copy of Andrea Constand's deposition, but we have reached out to her attorney, who says that, given the confidentiality agreement that is part of the settlement, she cannot make any comments at this point.

CAMEROTA: Wow. Just incredible revelations. We're going to have Barbara Bowman, one of the lead accusers, on with us later this hour.

CUOMO: How it all fits together into what has been so clearly a pattern from these woman coming forward.

All right. Also, breaking overnight, at least eight Afghan soldiers killed, five others wounded in a NATO airstrike in what is probably a friendly fire incident. An Afghan government official says two helicopters struck an Army outpost near Kabul. A U.S. Army spokesperson confirming an investigation is under way.

CAMEROTA: The 60-day debate over the Iran nuclear deal begins today, the White House sending Congress the agreement this weekend. Many lawmakers already upset with the provision allowing the United Nations to lift sanctions against Iran without congressional approval.

Israel urging U.S. lawmakers to reject this deal. Defense Secretary Ash Carter in Tel Aviv this morning, trying to seal the deal -- sell the deal, I should say, to Israeli leaders.

CUOMO: For the first time since 1961, the U.S. has diplomatic relations with Cuba. They were officially restored overnight. Today, embassies in both Washington and Havana reopened. Cuba's foreign minister will be on hand in Washington to raise his country's flag. John Kerry will do the same in Havana during a ceremony next month.

CAMEROTA: Now to the viral jaw-dropping video of a shark attacking a pro surfer during a competition in South Africa. Watch this. You will be able to see there as the shark comes up from behind the surfer. That's Mick Fanning. He goes on the attack against the shark. His quick actions allow him to escape unscathed, Chris, if you can believe it.

And the entire incident...

CUOMO: Did you see him slap the board?

CAMEROTA: The whole thing is chilling, and it -- it all played out on live TV.

CNN's David McKenzie joins us live now from Jeffreys Bay, South Africa, where he just spoke to the surfer, Fanning. David, tell us everything.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Alisyn. Mick Fanning is one of the world's best surfers. And he's clearly rattled by what happened. As you said, this extraordinary moment with what we believe was a great white shark coming up from underneath Mick Fanning and smacking him with its fin. And then, the surfer reacted in this way. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(WAVES SPLASHING)

(UNINTELLIGIBLE CHATTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: Incredibly, the co-surfer who was in that final with him here in one of the pro surfer circuits, he came to his aid, but didn't get there before the rescuers did. I spoke to him just moments ago. And Mick Fanning is clearly rattled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANNING: I found myself getting dragged under by my waist, and -- and then next thing I know, I saw his fin and, you know, I went on my board. And I just smacked him in the head. I think I tried to punch it. I was like -- and then it started, like, dragging me under, and dragging me by my legs. And yes, I was like, I don't know what to do. You never know. You're just lucky. You just thank whatever gods are out there or whatever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: Well, certainly, he says he's on his way home to Australia. And incredibly, his mom was watching on the TV. He said she told him she tried to reach in there and grab him out to safety. He says he's rarely been shaken by this. All the pro community

have been shaken by this. But certainly, it was a very good ending to a very, very scary situation. And over my shoulder here, they're surfing again today here in Jeffreys Bay -- Alisyn and Chris.

[06:20:03] CAMEROTA: Oh, boy. That takes some courage to get back in there. David, thanks so much.

So I was saying, how did he get away? But you're saying the jet ski came in?

CUOMO: The jet ski came in and rescued him. He swam a little bit. His board was gone. I don't know if the fish dragged it under or not. But, you know, that leash, the leash is the thing that surfers wear around their ankle, and it connects them to the board...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: ... when they get thrown off. That is going to have a very special place in his life forever. Because if it hadn't been the leash and it had been his leg, which is what usually happens, this would have had a very different outcome. That is a big fish. I heard a guy estimate, a marine biologist, it was between 12 and 15 feet.

CAMEROTA: That's scary.

CUOMO: That's the size of our table.

The question why, getting more clear in the Tennessee military murders. What the family of Chattanooga's gunman is now telling investigators about what their son was dealing with, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: We have developments for you in this story. This morning, investigators are zeroing in on why that lone gunman opened fire on two military facilities in Chattanooga, Tennessee, killing four Marines and a member of the U.S. Navy.

Authorities are questioning his family members here and in Jordan. His family says that the shooter was suffering from mental- health issues, and he had an addiction to drugs.

Joining us now to discuss, Phil Mudd, CNN counterterrorism analyst, former CIA counterterrorism official. Yes, that's all true, what we just reported; however, there are two roads here, Mr. Mudd. The one is that -- the first we just outlined, what the family is saying.

[06:25:05] And then there's the second road, with the perception -- we just saw a lot of protests, "The Washington Post" was reporting on over the weekend and others, of this is what is existing as an enemy base to America, extreme Muslims who are out there and can be easily triggered against. These are two different paths. Do you see both in this situation? PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I do. I don't think

there are two paths here. And I think the problem with this case is we're looking for simple solutions, linear solutions where we say, "Hey, we looked at his Facebook account and he talked about Islam," or "Hey, we looked at his mental health records, and he's deranged."

In this case, I think the problem is we're trying to find an answer that gives us easy solutions. I bet, Chris, if we talk in a month or two, we're going to look back and say the answer is a muddle. He clearly had some issues with his family. He clearly had some issues with drugs and alcohol. He also took a trip to Jordan that might have led to radicalization. When we say one path or another, I think we're simplifying a story of radicalization that includes both. Someone who believes he was motivated by a religious cause but had a lot of mental health and family issues going on that maybe had something to do with that radicalization process. It's not simple.

CUOMO: Well, that's interesting. Because very often, we distinguish between those who become radicalized, in this case, Islamists, and those who are mentally ill. As if we don't want to give a radicalized person the excuse of being ill. Do you think that that is somewhat of a precondition of buying into that kind of an extremist ideology, that you have to have something wrong with you?

MUDD: No, I don't. I've seen a lot of cases where people, if you spoke with them, you'd say this person is intelligent; they're rational. When we had senior al Qaeda guys at CIA facilities back in the mid-'90s, before the advent of ISIS, I would talk to our interrogators of al Qaeda guys. The architects of 9/11, where 3,000 people died. You would think interrogators would say, "This person is a little deranged; they're angry." Very sane people, very thoughtful. They had an idea that they would spark a revolution that might take centuries.

But I'm seeing, in this new age of what we call lone wolves, an increasing number of people who are not motivated purely by a sort of odd version of Islam, but also have mental health issues. We have seen it in Canada. We've seen this in New York. Now we're seeing it in Chattanooga.

One more thing, Chris. I keep hearing this word "devout" or "devoted to the faith." This is not a correct reading of what's going on here. When I watch these cases, people who are devout participate in a congregation. In this case, a congregation in a mosque. When they continue participating in that congregation, the other people in the congregation will explain how their interpretation of Islam is incorrect.

It's those who separate out from the congregation, the non- devout, you have to worry about. Because they'll start to say, "The congregation's too conservative; they're not doing anything about the injustices in Iraq and Syria and Palestine. We've got to do something ourselves." I think that's what's happened here.

CUOMO: The frustrating thing here is the lack of clues, right? That's what's got investigators going but also, as people figuring it out for themselves, rightly or wrongly.

The text that he sent is getting the most attention. Let's put it up for everybody who might not have seen it: "Whoever shows entity to a friend of mine, then I have declared war against him."

What does that mean to you from the faith and from the application with this guy?

MUDD: To my mind, he's looked at this and said, "Hey, the Americans have intervened in the heartland of the faith." That is Iraq, Afghanistan. As I said earlier, Palestine. "When they intervened, that gave me the authority, the religious justification to move against them."

That's especially valid when you think about the target. We talked over the past year or so about security targets. Police stations, military -- that is Air Force, Marines, Army, Navy.

So I think somebody, possibly during that trip to Jordan, persuaded him that the interpretation of the text, the text you just read, justifies action against a military target. Remember, we're not talking about a civilian target here. So I think that's what's going on here.

But I go back to saying, at the end of this conversation, we are going to look for answers or believe we will find answers that allow us to pinpoint what happened to this guy based on religious justification. I'm going to tell you right now, that's not going to happen. It's not going to be that easy.

CUOMO: Philip Mudd, thank you very much. As we hear the other pieces...

MUDD: Thank you.

CUOMO: ... we'll come back to you and help us put them together -- Alisyn.

MUDD: I'll be back.

CAMEROTA: Yes, he will.

OK, Chris. A main roadway connecting California and Arizona has been cut off. Record rains washing out a bridge. We have the latest on the extreme weather and where it's headed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)