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Interview with Carly Fiorina; Video Shows Gun Fire from Unmanned Drone. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired July 21, 2015 - 16:30   ET




TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Making headlines in our national lead, a new undercover video was released this morning showing a top doctor with Planned Parenthood discussing the price of fetal tissues and organs from abortions.

The undercover sting video is the second one released in less than a week by an anti-abortion group. Planned Parenthood says the video has been heavily edited and the group insists it only facilitates the donations of tissues and organs upon request of the mother, and never at profit. But what the doctor says in the video raises questions about that claim.

Let's get right to CNN's Tom Foreman.

Tom, Planned Parenthood had apologized for the flip tone of one of the executives in the previous video, and the tone and the actions in this video might be upsetting.


TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's almost certainly going to upset some folks, if only for the very casual way in which this doctor talks about what happens with the remains of fetuses after some abortions.

And this undercover group by this group opposed to abortion rights starts with the discussion about buying tissue from aborted fetuses.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you expect for intact tissue? What sort of compensation?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, why don't you start by telling me what you're used to paying.

FOREMAN (voice-over): That's Dr. Mary Gatter, a Planned Parenthood official in California. On the edited video, she starts discussing a cost of $75 per tissue sample, while repeatedly saying her group is not in it for the money.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't want to be in the position of being accused of selling tissue, stuff like that. On the other hand, there are costs associated with the use of...




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Way higher than that. So, I would like to start at around $100.


FOREMAN: The doctor then suggests the clinic could change the method of abortion to get more useful intact specimens.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you looking at eight- and nine-week specimens?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 10- to 12-week, end of the first trimester, if that's -- if those are pretty intact specimens, then that's something we can work with.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How he feels about using a less crunchy technique to get more whole specimens.

FOREMAN: Although the doctor says both techniques are valid and safe, bioethicist Art Caplan finds it all troubling.

DR. ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA CENTER FOR BIOETHICS: You can't give even the faintest suggestion you're going to change the technique because you have an interest in getting fetal tissue. Those are boundaries that can't be crossed. The tape gives the suggestion that they were pretty close to crossing them, and I think that's ethically worrisome.

FOREMAN: After an earlier similar video, Planned Parenthood denied selling organs from fetuses, saying payments just cover operational costs.

Response to this new video? "Nobody can tell exactly what was discussed because of the extremely heavy editing, the agenda of the activists who produced it, and the fact that the original footage has not been made available."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been years since I talked about compensation. So, let me just figure out what others are getting and if this is in the ballpark and that's fine, or if it's still low, then we can bring it up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want a Lamborghini.


FOREMAN: The organization behind the video has also posted a much longer version online. We don't know independently if it shows the entire encounter that day.

We do know that Planned Parenthood is saying this is all part of a campaign to shut down abortion rights. And we also know that selling body parts from aborted fetuses is illegal. And over on Capitol Hill, Senator Rand Paul, who is running for president, says he will demand a vote on ending federal funding to Planned Parenthood. That's about $500 million a year. We will see if anything comes of that -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Tom Foreman, thank you so much.

Today's politics lead, Governor John Kasich now the 16th major Republican candidate. He used themes of unity and support to kick off his campaign today. But are Donald Trump's insults and name-calling and phone number sharing drowning out the competition?

Another candidate, Carly Fiorina, is fighting to be heard and gain ground ahead of the upcoming debate -- her take on Trump and his impact on the Republican brand and things that she wants to talk about next.



TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

The politics lead today. "The Des Moines Register" today called him a feckless blowhard. "The New York Daily News" called him "G.I. Joke," but you can call Donald Trump a Republican presidential front- runner.

A brand-new poll has Donald Trump not only on top, but enjoying the biggest lead of any Republican candidate so far in this cycle. The ABC news/"Washington Post" poll has Trump leading with 24 percent of the vote. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is in second place at 13 percent.

But the polling process was ending just as the controversy was beginning over Trump's remarks questioning the war heroism of Senator John McCain.

Today, Trump made things even more Trumpy by giving out the private cell phone number of another Republican rival during a speech aired right here on CNN.

Now, to be fair, that senator yesterday said Trump was becoming a -- quote -- "jackass."

CNN's Dana Bash filed this report from Bluffton, South Carolina.



DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump unbowed by a barrage of criticism.

TRUMP: They say they didn't like the way that, you know, the little -- I'm a little loud. I'm a little too strong. But they don't like it.

BASH: The reality TV star with a flair for drama took presidential politics to yet another surreal level.

TRUMP: And I see your senator. What a stiff. What a stiff.

BASH: Responding to fellow Republican presidential candidate Lindsey Graham, saying this to CNN:


TRUMP: Then I watch this idiot Lindsey Graham on television today. And he calls me a jackass. He's a jackass.

BASH: Standing in Graham's home state of South Carolina, Trump retaliated by reading aloud the senator's personal cell phone number.

TRUMP: And he gave me his number. And I found the card. I wrote the number down. I don't know if it's the right number. Let's try it.

BASH: We asked why.

(on camera): Why did you read Lindsey Graham's cell phone number?

TRUMP: So people can call him, so he can maybe get something done. But he won't be able to.

BASH (voice-over): Graham, now unable to be reached by cell, responded through his campaign manager, saying: "Donald Trump continues to show hourly that he is ill-prepared to be commander in chief."

All this amid a back and forth with Iowa's largest newspaper, "The Des Moines Register," whose editorial board called for him to pull the plug on his bloviating sideshow.

Trump shot back about the newspaper's sagging sales. He appears to be buoyed by the politics of personal warfare, that and crowds like this...


[16:45:01] BASH: All told, some 1,100 people in the main auditorium and an

overflow room Trump visited after his speech. Many at this retirement community waited online for hours to get in.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going to a set up walls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he's terrific, because he tells the truth.

BASH: Not everyone who came was a supporter.


BASH (on camera): He scares you, but you're still here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, well, I want to see him, he's a celebrity.

BASH (voice-over): Despite causing so much controversy with comments about John McCain's war service, some veterans here in military rich South Carolina came to hear him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just disappointed me. I wasn't offended but I was disappointed.

BASH (on camera): And yet, it's not a deal breaker?


BASH (voice-over): All this, as the 16th GOP White House hopeful John Kasich was making his candidacy official.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to take the lessons of the heartland and straighten out Washington, D.C., and fix our country.

BASH: A strong speech from a governor overseeing a recovering Ohio, largely overshadowed by the Donald.


BASH: Now, back to Graham here, at least his campaign tried to make light of Donald Trump's cell phone stunt by tweeting, probably getting a new phone, iPhone or Android.

And, Jake, as you probably know, either would be an upgrade for the Luddite that Graham is. He still has a flip phone until now. Graham's had -- Jake.

TAPPER: Thank you so much.

Let's talk more with the presidential race with 2016 presidential candidate and former Hewlett-Packard CEO, Carly Fiorina. We should also point out, she's a former panelist on THE LEAD. Carly, welcome back. I have to call you Ms. Fiorina now I think,

because you're a candidate, not a panelist on my show.

First of all, I want to make sure, does Donald Trump have your phone number?


TAPPER: What do you make of this all? Lindsey Graham's campaign manager saying, "Because of Trump's bombastic and ridiculous campaign," this is a quote, "we aren't talking about Obama's horrible deal with Iran or Clinton's plans to continue Obama's failed national security agenda."

Do you think Trump is hurting the Republican cause?

FIORINA: Well, I do think Donald Trump taps into an anger that I feel out there as well. People are tired of professional politicians, because all they do is talk, nothing really changes. And we have longstanding problems in this nation, whether it's sanctuary cities that have been around for 15 years or an insecure border which has been around 25 years.

On the other hand, think about what you have been talking about on your show today. We've had a terrorist attack at a military base on U.S. soil. We have hearings going on, because a young woman was killed by a felon who had to be deported several times and was nevertheless lulling around in San Francisco, a sanctuary city.

We have a Planned Parenthood video that is depraved and nothing else, and the callous nature with which these people are talking about an unborn child and their organs.

I mean, these are all huge stories. And they point to the serious issues that face this nation.

And so, I think eventually, voters are going to say, you know what, all of this talk isn't solving a single problem. Nor is the fact, by the way, that Hillary Clinton won't answer a single question and doesn't comment on any of the major issues of the day, including that Planned Parenthood video.

TAPPER: I want to get to abortion in a second, the sanctuary city question. But to just put a button on this, about this Trump thing, it's a problem for candidates like you who are in the bottom tier. Right now, you're polling in 14th place, and you have to be on the top ten to be on the stage with me for the main debate at the Reagan Library in September.

How can you breakthrough?

FIORINA: Well, you know, I launched my campaign on May 4th, at that point the imagine order of the American people had never heard my name. And we are continuing to gain measurable momentum. I think if you look at polls this far out in history, you would find they were very predictive. So, you know, at this point, everyone said Jimmy Carter couldn't

win, Ronald Reagan couldn't win, Bill Clinton couldn't win, Barack Obama couldn't win. And all those polls, and all those pundits were wrong.

So, I think the American people will sort it out.

TAPPER: We see on the left, huge movement by the women's groups, liberal women's groups to support Hillary Clinton. Why aren't we seeing women's groups on the right, Republican women's groups doing the same for you?

FIORINA: Well, I think there's more support out there that be you might realize, it's pretty shameful that a lot of these liberal women's groups have called my candidacy offensive. Really, these are people who support women, and yet they're offended by the idea of my candidacy?

That's about politics, Jake. That's not about supporting women. That's about politics and ideology, pure and simple.

So, I think you need to think through why all these liberal women's groups are calling my candidacy offensive, and why they're supporting Hillary Clinton.

TAPPER: Well, I get why they call your candidacy names, because they're liberal.

[16:50:01] But I'm just wondering why there aren't the Republican women's groups that I get emails from on a regular basis, why they're not behind you. But maybe I should ask them and not you.

Let's turn to the question of abortion, because I know you want to talk about it. One of your opponents signed a law in Wisconsin this week, which would prohibit abortions after 20 weeks of a pregnancy. On Twitter, Hillary Clinton said, "Governor Walker signed dangerous abortion restrictions in the law in Wisconsin, without exceptions for rape or incest." She called this extreme and unacceptable.

Walker retweeted her and called her out of touch with most Americans.

What's your position on this legislation which does not allow exceptions for rape and incest?

FIORINA: Well, let's talk about the legislation that's sitting on the Senate floor right now, which does allow for those exceptions.

TAPPER: So, you think there's exceptions --

FIORINA: Let's also talk about Hillary Clinton's position. Let's talk about what extreme is.

It's not a life until it leaves the hospital. That's Hillary Clinton's position. It's Hillary Clinton's position that a 13-year- old girl needs her mother's permission to go to a tanning salon or a tattoo, but not to get an abortion.

It's Hillary Clinton's position that women should not be permitted to look at an ultrasound before an abortion, and yet people are trying to harvest body parts can use ultrasound to make sure that those body parts are preserved so they can be sold.

That, Jake, is extreme.

TAPPER: Just to clarify, you think there should be a provision for rape and incest?

FIORINA: I would be delighted if once the media would ask Hillary Clinton about her extremism of her position. It's not a life -- it's not a life until it leaves the hospital.

My position is very clear. It's been clear and consistent ever since I ran for the Senate in 2010. Anyone can look it up. Yes, I support exceptions, but the majority of the American people now believe that abortion for any reason at all, to be paid for by taxpayers after five months is an abomination.

This videotape, whether you're a prochoice woman or prolife woman, this videotape is depraved. The casual nature with which these people are talking about fetuses, and tissue and specimens -- I'll tell you what? If a woman was looking at that ultrasound at that same stage in her pregnancy, the doctor would not be talking about fetuses, specimens or tissues. They would be saying, look at your baby's heartbeat, look at your baby's eyes, look at your baby's organs.

TAPPER: Carly Fiorina, thank you so much. Thank you for taking our questions. We look forward to Secretary Clinton coming on the show and taking the questions.

FIORINA: I hope she will.

TAPPER: I do as well.

Thank you so much. Good to see you again.

The money lead -- it has no graphic images, no racy music. Next, the one big technicality keeping this commercial about recreational marijuana off the airwaves.


[16:57:05] TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

The money lead now -- it could be a commercial for anything. Millennials, at a strobe heavy concert, hiking up mountains in their spare time. But this is not an ad for just anything, it is an ad for marijuana, specifically for Neos, a provider of cannabis oil and accessories. The spot was set to air in Colorado, where the drug is legal for recreational use.

But with federal laws against the legality of marijuana, still in place in the federal government, of course, regulating the airwaves, well, it all gets a little hazy. So, the commercial is set to be the first of its kind last night was pulled by the local ABC affiliate KMGH, due to legal concerns. ABC corporate says it is now investigating the legality of such an ad.

Our buried lead looks like something out of a sci-fi movie.

An unmanned drone armed with a handgun firing shot after shot into the woods. An 18-year-old engineering student created it and posted video of his flight on YouTube. What could go wrong?

Let's get right to Rene Marsh, CNN's aviation and government regulation correspondent.

Rene, what we do know about this video?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that an 18-year-old by the Austin Haughwout of Clinton, Connecticut, is the mastermind behind that remote control drone firing shots. As alarming as that video may be, so far, police tell me there is not much they can do. The chief of police in Clinton, Connecticut, saying, quote, "It would seem to the average person, there should be something prohibiting a person from attaching a weapon to a drone. But at this point, we can't find anything that's been violated."

Clinton police say from a criminal law enforcement stance, it's perfectly legal to shoot your gun on your private property if it's done in a safe manner. And at this point, Jake, they're saying they have no indication that anyone's life was in danger.

We do know, though, FAA is also investigating. So, we're waiting to see what they have to say.

TAPPER: This seems to be another example of laws way behind technology.

MARSH: You are absolutely right, in a scary way. I mean, it is very far behind.

I spoke with a former FAA chief of drones, he's no longer with the FAA. And he says, look, there is this gray area, simply because of the technology moving so fast, and the laws are not moving as fast. So, you have a situation where law enforcement aren't sure what they can do.

TAPPER: Those guys with FAA with their AOL and Mindspring accounts. Looking forward to them getting on the job.

Rene Marsh, thank you so much.

Remember, you can watch THE LEAD anytime, live or on demand on your desktop, cell phone or tablet. Just check out CNN Go. Be sure to follow me on Facebook or on Twitter @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @TheLeadCNN.

That's it for THE LEAD today. I'm Jake Tapper. I am officially turning you over to one Mr. Wolf Blitzer who's next door in a place I like to call "THE SITUATION ROOM".