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Republican Presidential Candidate Donald Trump Campaigned at the Mexican Border; Donald Trump Talks about Iraq; Sandra Bland Case Examined. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 23, 2015 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:11] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.

Tonight, Donald Trump on the border and more of my conversation with him. Mr. Trump as you know has made illegal immigration the centerpiece of his campaign. And today, he was in Laredo, Texas trying to do just that. He is drawing fire almost from the start how he has been calling attention to the problem and he has drawn praise as well. He also has drawn calls for specifics on allegations he is making including this one earlier this month.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We bring them back and they push them out. Mexico pushes back people across the border that are criminals, that are drug dealers.


COOPER: He said he was talking about the Mexican government itself. His exact words quote "the country of Mexico is pushing people in." I asked him about it again yesterday.


COOPER: You keep saying, Mexico is sending these people across.

TRUMP: Mexico is sending. You said it properly. You said it properly. Thank you.

COOPER: But you have offered no proof. And that's what people say about that --.


COOPER: Well reporters in Laredo tried to pin him down on that as well as specific plans for solving the problem. He also made claims about the trip itself saying the local border patrol union withdrew its invitation to him after pressure from Washington itself. Well, tonight, we'll hear from a top official in the union.

Also, my conversation with Mr. Trump about ISIS and northern Iraq. His plan for ISIS bomb the hell out of the oil field take the oil. When present with criticism of that plan by a former top general, Trump said he would be a better general than him. More on that tonight.

And the veiled suggestion Mr. Trump made about a possible independent run if he does not win the Republican nomination.

We begin though on the border with Dana Bash. She joins us now from Laredo, Texas.

It was obviously quite a scene there today when Donald Trump arrived. How much of it was actually substantive and how much was it a photo- op?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Honestly it's hard to answer that question. But you know, like anywhere Donald Trump goes, there was definitely a lot of theater, some that he encourages and some that just happens like what happens when any celebrity shows up some place.

But when you have somebody like Donald Trump arrive on his very large plane with his name emblazoned across the side, it is going to draw attention especially to people in a town like where I am right now, Laredo, Texas where they're not used to somebody like him coming. Have to say that we saw some people at a gas station, they thought was a rumor and joke that he was coming here. They really couldn't believe it.

So you certainly had a lot of this sort of spectacle, and some, some of the substance. Listen to some examples of what happened today.


TRUMP: The border patrol, they're petrified of saying what is happening because they have a real problem here and I am talking about on the whole border. And they invited me. And then all of a sudden they were told silencio. They want silence. So it is a problem that we will get straighten up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Have you seen any evidence here to confirm your fear about Mexico's outstanding gets through the border?

TRUMP: Yes, I have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: We'll be showing you that evidence.

TRUMP: We will be showing you the evidence.


TRUMP: I am going to steal him to run something for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Mr. Trump, the way to make the border safe is to build this long wall?

JESUS OLIVAREZ, LAREDO, TEXAS CITY MANAGER: Well, that's -- that's a federal issue. We have our comments on that. We don't, we don't think that's necessary at this time.

TRUMP: In certain sections you have to have a wall.


COOPER: His claim about the Mexican government sending people over, it was interesting that he said he saw evidence of that today. He won't share it. He said he will at some point. I mean, you and I both interviewed him recently. When pressed on specifics he is not always happy about that.

BASH: No, he is not. And that was clear in several of the exchanges he had here today. A lot of the press that was here was Spanish speaking press. And they were pretty open about being combative with him. There was no question about that.

But you know the other issue in his defense is, as you heard at the beginning of that sound bite there, he did come down here at the invitation of the local border patrol union who pulled out basically when he was in the air coming down here. I was talking to some local police officers here. They had to basically pick up the slack and figure out, scramble to figure out how to deal with his visit. And they said, look, you know, we kind of made good with what we could do here. Because these are obviously largely Hispanic voters here, Hispanic officials. They said, we feel like he is somebody who we should come here and talk to and it is important to do that. But there also was some combative back and forth. Listen to this.


TRUMP: No, no, no. We are talking about illegal immigration. And everybody understands it. And you know that it is a typical case - wait. That is a typical case of the press with misinterpretation. They take a half a sentence, by the way, they take a half a sentence then take a quarter of a sentence. They put it altogether. It's a typical thing. And you are with Telemundo. Telemundo should be ashamed of themselves. You are finished.


BASH: As I mentioned he had combative exchanges with the Spanish speaking press. But that issue did come up several times, probably no surprise, Anderson. And the comments that he made now infamous comments in his announcement speech talking about rapists and criminals. So that was part of the exchange pretty much in all three of his press conferences here -- Anderson.

[20:05:49] COOPER: All right, Dana, appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

More now on what Dana just touched on a moment ago. Mr. Trump's allegations that forces in Washington pressured the border patrol union into disinviting him. Right after he made those claims, we spoke by phone with top union official Shawn Moran, vice president of the National Border Patrol Council.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Shawn, can you explain what happened here. Donald Trump is claiming that the local Laredo border patrol council which invited him was told to back out of their meeting with him because they were quote "totally silenced directly from superiors in Washington who do not want people to know how bad it is on the border." Is that what happened?

SHAWN MORAN, VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL (via phone): No. I would say that's not an accurate statement at all. We had concerns from our membership about comments that were made about senator McCain and veterans and many of our members who are border patrol agents are former veterans of the armed services and we responded to those.

Plus this is -- an organization that need to work with both side of the aisle. And right now we don't want to align ourselves with one candidate prior to them being made, the candidate of their party. This would go for either side.

COOPER: I want to ask you about allegations that Donald Trump has been making that basically Mexico is sending criminals to the United States, undesirable people, having them, sending them across the borders, illegal immigrants. Have you seen, has your organization seen any evidence to show that is in fact happening? Because I asked Trump for evidence about this yesterday. He says, well maybe, tomorrow, today we'll have it. He has the yet to show anything. Is there any evidence that you have come across or your, border agents have come across, that would indicate this is a plot, a plan, by the Mexican government?

MORAN: I can't speak to any orchestrated plan to have people come into the United States. But I can say that Mexico could do a better job of policing its northern border and re-establishing the rules of law on the border. Our agents are constantly assaulted by people who either get back into Mexico or are in the process of trying to enter the United States illegally. We have an average of one major assault every day against border patrol agents. And we believe that wouldn't happen if Mexico were to reassert itself on its northern border.

COOPER: Shawn Moran, I appreciate you being with us. Thanks, Shawn.

MORAN: Thank you, Anderson.


COOPER: Let's dig deeper on the reception Donald Trump got today given everything he said lately. More on that now from our Gary Tuchman.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Donald Trump walked through the airport in Laredo, Texas. There were supporters. But there were also many detractors. The city after all is about 95 percent Hispanic. And many came to the airport chanting in Spanish, the people united can never be defeated. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody asked me what did you tell Mr. Trump if

he was here standing in front of me? And I told him, look I have a lot of chosen word for the man. But I cannot say them on camera. But one thing I would tell him, get the hell out of here.

TUCHMAN: But the Republican presidential candidate hung around visiting the nearby Mexican border. Just a few weeks after offending many with his broad statement about undocumented immigrants being rapists and criminals.

ELIA MENDOZA, DIRECTOR, LEAGUE OF UNITED LATIN AMERICA CITIZENS: We will not tolerate offensive remarks that Trump has made.

TUCHMAN: Elia Mendoza is the Texas director of LULAC, the League of United Latin American citizens.

MENDOZA: I think he needs to apologize. He need to apologize.

TUCHMAN: Many protesters wanted to demonstrate at the border where Trump was paying his visit.

This is where you show your documents to U.S. authorities when you cross into Texas. The signs say open, but it's not open. Take a look at the road. It completely shut down to traffic because of Donald Trump's visit.

That security move stopped any demonstrators from showing up and further angered some of them. Meanwhile, although they're in the minority, there are Mexican Americans here who support Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you tell me who are --

TUCHMAN: The woman in the white who got into quite a few arguments with others today is Rosa Polacios.

[20:10:01] ROSA POLACIOS, LAREDO, TEXAS RESIDENT: I like what he is doing. I love what he is going to be doing. I hope he gets his intentions. I am praying for all of his intentions. What he is talking about. What he is going to be doing. I hope they go through, sir.

TUCHMAN: You like Donald Trump?

POLACIOS: Yes, sir.

TUCHMAN: You are Mexican-American?

POLACIOS: Yes, sir. I'm Mexican-American.

TUCHMAN: When he talks about undocumented immigrants being rapists and criminals, does that insult you?

POLACIOS: Not at all. He is talking just about the truth.

TUCHMAN: But in other parts of Laredo like (INAUDIBLE) restaurant which is very well known in town, it's hard to find similar sentiments.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He generalized. And that's why people are upset.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is trying to get support he came to the wrong place.


COOPER: And Gary joins us now. What sort of reception did he receive as he moved around the city itself?

TUCHMAN: Well, Anderson. Laredo, Texas is a very friendly city, but it is also relatively sleepy place. So when Donald Trump the New York City real estate tycoon rolled in it created quite a spectacle. And he took a motorcade to and from the border area. And along the motorcade route, there were some people yelling and giving him the thumbs down. But there were lots of people who were very excited to see a celebrity come by in a car, come by in his car. And they were clapping and yelling.

As a matter of fact in this very parking lot where he was before he left for the day, there were about seven to ten young people, maybe teenagers or in their early 20s and yelling and screaming his car was moving by saying Donald, Donald, we watch "the Apprentice" all the time. And Trump opened his window and he said, I love you, acting just like the celebrity he is.

COOPER: Gary Tuchman. Gary, thanks for being there.

Quick reminder, make sure you set your DVR. You can watch "360" whenever you want.

Coming up next. I got one-on-one with Donald Trump on ISIS and Iraq trying to pin him down on specifics about his plan to deal with ISIS and challenging him with what a former military official says about him.


COOPER: General Hurtling who commanded U.S. forces in northern Iraq for two years, 2007-2009. He is not a political guy. He says that just doesn't make any sense.

TRUMP: Hey, I say it does. OK.



[20:15:53] COOPER: We are talking tonight about Donald Trump and his belief that his brand of leadership is what the country needs right now. He is out in front in numerous polls for Republican voters, way out in front in a "Washington Post"/ABC News poll released earlier this week. He is especially outspoken about how the occupation of Iraq was

handled and that resulting rise of ISIS which FBI director James Comey today called the greater threat than Al-Qaeda. I talked to Donald Trump about it and he made some pretty strong claims during our conversation at Trump tower yesterday.


COOPER: Let me ask you about you talk about ISIS. Last time we talked you said you had a plan to deal with them. You would be tougher than anybody else. You have said bomb the hell out of the oil field. Take their money supply. Get the oil. Send in troops to ring the oil. I talked to a number of folks who have experience on the ground, General Hurtling who commanded U.S. forces in northern Iraq, for two years here, 2007 - 2009. He is not a political guy. He said that just doesn't make any sense.

TRUMP: I say it does. OK.

COOPER: Let me ask you specifics.

TRUMP: I say it does. I'm saying you take the money away. They're so rich. They're killing us on the internet. They're building a hotel in Iraq. They're building a hotel.

COOPER: U.S.-led coalition says they don't actually have full control over any oil fields in Iraq. They have some, some control of the --

TRUMP: They're taking the oil. They're taking so much of the oil. You're not trying to say they're not.

COOPER: No, but they are in Syria.

TRUMP: I'm not just talking about in Iraq. I'm talking about in Syria too.

COOPER: You would bomb in Syria.

MORAN: I would bomb the hell of them.

COOPER: Aren't you going to unite everybody in Iraq, Sunni and Shia against the United States. If you are taking --

TRUMP: It seems to me that the only one that really fights are the Kurds.

COOPER: And they control the oil fields.

TRUMP: Well ISIS is controlling. And ISIS is getting the money.

COOPER: Kurds control.

TRUMP: ISIS is very rich. OK. They're rich for two reasons. Lot of money coming out of Saudi Arabia in other places and a lot of oil.

COOPER: But you are destroying the infrastructure, the future infrastructure.

TRUMP: I know about infrastructure more than any person in the history of this country that has ever run. Nobody knows more about infrastructure. And I can tell you the Exxon Mobiles of the world who are terrific and some of the great oil companies, Anderson they will go in and they will rebuild that so fast your head will spin. And now it is an old infrastructure. They'll put in a new. And we'll circle it. And we will take the oil. And we should have taken the oil. Excuse me. We should have taken the oil. If you remember. I said don't go into Iraq. You are going to ruin the balance.

COOPER: So you are going to go into a sovereign nation and take their oil.

TRUMP: What's the sovereign nation? Do you think Iraq is a sovereign nation?


TRUMP: I don't think so. I think Iraq is a corrupt place. It's got a name Iraq. But it's really split up into thiefdoms (ph) all over the place.

COOPER: A lot of Iraqis that view themselves as Iraqis.

TRUMP: I think frankly, people are starting to give up on that. If the bullet is fired in the air. They run and give over our equipment. Iraqi essentially exist. And by the way, for whatever Iraq does exist, they meet with Iran. Because Iran, if you get the Reuters article that I wrote, that I was interviewed for, from July of 2004, everything I said turned out to be exactly correct. I said that Iran is going to take over Iraq with the oil. And I said there will be remnants of oil that other peoples will take over. And you know who that is, that's ISIS.

COOPER: Two quick things again, General Hertling saying, they brought in Exxon in 2007, 2008, Exxon was there for two weeks, said look, we don't want to get involved.

TRUMP: Because they don't want to be involved politically. Now they'll get involved.

COOPER: You say send in troops. Ring the oil field. General Hurtling said they had 30,000 Americans, 60,000 Iraqis, guarding (INAUDIBLE). Al-Qaeda was still like getting.

TRUMP: Then I am a better general than the general you are talking about, OK. Then I am better general.


COOPER: So you hear what he said. I want to bring in lieutenant general Hertling.

General Hertling, I'm sorry to get you involved in all these conversations. General Hertling, I should point out, commanded the first armored division and Task Force Iron in northern Iraq in 2007- 2009, and the U.S. army in Europe, in 2013, currently CNN military analyst. So this idea of bombing the hell out of the oil fields in Iraq and that there is no Iraq and what do you make of that?

[20:20:00] LT. GEN, MARK HERTLING, (RET.) US. ARMY: It's delusional, Anderson. It is interesting the other day when I commented I tried to be as apolitical as possible and said that we judge leaders in the military through character, presence and intellect. I suggested that Mr. Trump did not have a firm grasp of what was going on not only in Iraq but in other part of the world. And I continue to believe that.

He may be a very good businessman. But the art of soldiering is a profession. And I'm not sure he understands the science and art of soldiering and the connection of military strategy with national security strategy. And he doesn't certainly understand the complexity of what is going on in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

COOPER: The complexity of Iraq, I mean, I have been there a couple times and you certainly have been there a very long time, is extraordinary to say though that there are no Iraqis there is no Iraq. I mean, that's just not true.

HERTLING: It certainly is not true. And I heard his comments about the Kurds, that they're the only ones fighting. I think there are several groups within Iraq that are fighting desperately for their country. And fighting desperately for nationalism.

So again it is just a lack of understanding of what is going on in that country. And what concerns me is Mr. Trump seems to be applying this to various places around the world making very simplistic analogies with almost comic book approaches to some of the more significant problems that our U.S. president will eventually have to face when we elect the next one.

COOPER: When you bomb the hell out of oil fields, to understandably - I mean, understandable, it is a rational desire to want to take the source of fund for a terror group. But when you bomb the hell to use his quote out of oil fields you are destroying the future infrastructure that would be used by Iraq. And also I mean doesn't that unite everybody in Iraq against the United States?

HERTLING: Absolutely. And I think that's what Chairman Dempsey, General Dempsey has offered as his argument to the national security team that in fact no matter what way America goes in this we potentially come out losers. So we have to be very careful in terms of how we are seeing in this particular country.

The other thing that I would suggest too is arbitrary bombing as Mr. Trump suggests actually leans a little bit toward war crimes. And I don't care how great of lawyers he has got in the Trump organization for his business ventures, they're not going to get him out of the head court for some of the things he is suggesting we should do. In some cases it's just flat out murder where you arbitrarily bombing a country like he is suggesting we might want to look at.

COOPER: General Hertling, I appreciate you being on. Thank you, sir, very much.

HERTLING: Thank you.

COOPER: Coming up next, the possibility that Donald Trump, now the leading GOP contender, might launch a third party run if he loses the nomination. He left the door open any again today. We'll take about that when we continue.


[20:26:31] COOPER: As a developer doing business in a city where Democrats, Republicans and independent have all shared power recently, Donald Trump makes no bones about the his mix of political affiliation over the years. He is now a Republican, conservative Republican he says, and he says he wants to run next year as a Republican.

That said today he again left the door open to a third party candidacy if it comes to that telling "the Hill" that the chances for it would increase the Republican National Committee is unfair to him during the primary season. I also asked him the first time we sat down earlier this month.


COOPER: You would allow the idea of running as independent third party candidate if for some reason you don't get the GOP nomination?

TRUMP: Everybody asks me to do it. I had so many people say would you run as an independent, would you run as a third party candidate. And I think, you know, they see the kind of votes. I would get a lot of votes. The best way of defeating the Democrats and probably Hillary, think it is going to be Hillary, is to run as a Republican. If I do the third party thing I think it would be bad for the Republicans. I think it would be very bad in terms of beating the Democrats.


COOPER: A lot to talk about. Joining us CNN contributor Dan Restrepo who served as director of western hemisphere affairs in the Obama national Security Council, also CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp, and former Reagan White House political director Jeffrey Lord.

Jeffrey, you heard what Donald Trump now told me earlier this month, now he is clearly engaging with that idea a little more, more publicly, what do you think the strategy is behind that?

JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I think it is out of the art of the war, the sheathed sword. I think what he is basically saying is, you know, be fair to me or, you know, I'll think about this. And you know to be perfectly candid, I keep listening every day to these kinds of things. And I don't understand if all of these people are opposed to Donald Trump, why they do things that basically give him more oxygen and more fuel as they go along.

And certainly before I came over here, I heard Senator Rubio musing about having candidates sign a pledge or something that they wouldn't run a third party candidacy. I mean this kind of thing is just extremely provocative and I think, you know, not a smart idea.

COOPER: S.E., do you agree with Jeffrey that entertaining a third party bid or at least publically talking about it is a not so subtle way of telling the RNC to layoff?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, Donald Trump's MO is to say I've got the money, I've got the manpower, I've got the stamina, and you know, I've got the mechanism to run as long as I want. So don't try to marginalize me before I am ready to get o. If I decide to do that.

That said, I think he is pretty realistic, you know, Ross Perot was the most successful candidate to run as a third party since Theodore Roosevelt in the '20s. And he only ended up with 18.9 percent of the popular vote and no Electoral College votes. And he had a very chaotic campaign. If you remember, he got in he got out, he got back in. It was kind of a circus like we are seeing now. And obviously didn't end up great for Republicans either.

So I think Trump is right that if he actually wants to win running as a Republican is best for him and best for the party. I don't know in the long term if this is great for the GOP. But, you know everyone is sort of dealing with that, that possibility now.

COOPER: Dan, I should mention. You worked for President also in Florida politics, such a crucial state. I mean, is a Trump third party candidacy, that Hillary Clinton/s dream scenario because we got those ABC/"Washington Post" numbers that show should have a new victory under that scenario.

[20:30:00] DAN RESTREPO, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS: Certainly wouldn't be good for the Republican Party. He knows that this is essentially political hostage taking. He's trying to send a message to the Republicans to treat him well.

And, you know, you only have to be even a marginal player in the general election to make a difference. Speaking of Florida in 2000, where I was. The 96,000 votes to Ralph Nader won in the state.

You know, go ask with Al Gore about those and whether there were 537 likely Gore voters in there if Nader hadn't been on the ballot.

And so, Trump wouldn't have to move the needle much to make a real difference in an outcome.

And third party candidates don't get elected president of the United States.

So it also raises the question if he were to go that route, if he was serious about -- and I guess further raises the question whether he is seriously running for president of the United States or he's up to something else right now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN 360 HOST: Jeffrey, the RNC, I mean is they -- what do you think Trump wants them to do? I mean is this reaction to their comment about John McCain in the wake of his comments about John McCain as a war hero? Is it -- do you think that's what offended him?

JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It's possible. I mean I don't know. But that's certainly possible.

You know, a little earlier in the process, there were reports that donors were thinking of trying to get the RNC to keep him out of the debate.

COOPER: Right.

LORD: And, you know, forgive me, Anderson, but this is -- you know, the old Eddie Murphy movie, Beverly Hills Cop, where he is sort of the fish out of water, with the sort of snooty police force, and at one point, he gets into an argument nuts over of a buffet table in the club and the police chief says, "Is this the man who ruined the buffet at the Harold Club?" And you get the sensation that the Republican Party is looking at Donald Trump vaguely as the police chief in that movie looked at Eddie Murphy is Axel Foley.

COOPER: I mean I see it's an interesting analogy that Jeffrey makes. Is -- because I mean there is an argument to be made that, perhaps, he's helping the Republican Party right now, that there is more interest in the GOP race, probably right now than there may have been. I mean it's very early on the process, and yet it's leading newscast every single night. You know, yes, he's taking a lot of the oxygen from some of the other candidates, the GOP candidates. But surely, that debate is going to be more, you know, closely watched and the viewerships (ph) is probably going to high because of Trump.

SARAH ELIZABETH CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. I don't know. I am cringing. You're right. It's certainly a spectacle. People like watching him. People clearly like talking about him.

And I certainly think you're right. They're going to tune in to the debates to see how he performs.

But, you know, this is not good for the Republican Party. Frankly, it's a distraction away from the contortions that Hillary Clinton is trying to perform on the left to win progressives. We're not really talking about that. And we're not really talking about serious policies.

You know, in your interviews with Donald Trump, you've tried very, very hard to get him to answer substantive questions.

COOPER: Not very successfully.

CUPP: Not Very Successfully. And it's almost, you know, an impossible task. And so, we're not talking about substantive issues.

The GOP candidates are now having to respond to Trump and explain Trump instead of talking about actual immigration reform, actual economic reform, tax reform.

So it's not best for the party. It's not good for the country either.

COOPER: Although -- Dan, it's interesting. We had another guest on a couple nights ago who said that, in some ways, another argument that may be Trump is kind of helping the race at this stage of the race is that he is getting the other GOP candidates to, perhaps, come off talking points in a way that they wouldn't have otherwise.

I mean would Lindsey Graham have put out that commercial, you know, a funny commercial with him destroying a cell phone, I mean he wouldn't have had to, obviously but a commercial that showed personality and a side of him that probably nobody has ever seen before if it was not for Donald Trump?

RESTREPO: He might have. And again here, Anderson, interest and exposure for the Republican Party isn't translating into benefit, right?

The pew has a poll out today showing the highest level of unfavorability in the 20 years that they've been polling on the Republican brand and lowest level of favorability on the Republican brand in the 20 years that they've been running this poll. So this exposure and interest isn't working for them.

And Republicans haven't moved off their talking points on some key issues that are going to come back to haunt them in November of next year, particularly on immigration.

They denounced Donald Trump within moments of his comments about John McCain and some of them still haven't denounced his comments about Mexico and about immigrants, and that's going to be a real problem for the Republican Party going into November of next year, given the demographic shift that we're living as a country.

COOPER: Do you think we got ...

CUPP: This is the problem. The republicans are meant to look responsible for Donald Trump, that they haven't come out to distance themselves.

COOPER: Well, Hillary Clinton is certainly trying to make -- Hillary Clinton is trying to push that message and we've heard her do that.

We're going to leave there, S.E. Cupp. I'm sorry. Jeffrey Lord, Dan Restrepo, thank you very much. We'll have you on all again.

Just ahead, new details on several fronts in the Sandra Bland case with preliminary autopsy results show when an inmate in the cell next to him is Bland hurt in regards to the jail failed to do.


COOPER: Today, Texas officials said that preliminary autopsy results confirm that Sandra Bland's death was suicide by hanging. They released this image of a plastic garbage bag she allegedly used.

Ms. Bland, as you know, was found dead in the jail cell three days after being arrested during a traffic stop.

Now, according to a county prosecutor, the medical examiner found a bruise on the 28-year-old woman's neck, consistent with suicide and no obvious signs of a violent struggle. She also had approximately 30 partly healed cut marks on her left wrist and marijuana in her system.

Also, new tonight, an inmate in the cell next to Bland told CNN that Ms. Bland was emotional and often crying during her three days in jail, but she didn't hear any commotion or screaming that would suggest foul play.

A lots to talk about with the Waller County District Attorney, Elton Mathis. He joins us again tonight.

Mr. Mathis, the investigation into what happened during the traffic stop with Ms. Bland, what is the latest on that? Have there been any new developments you can share with us?

ELTON MATHIS, WALLER COUNTY DISTRIC ATTORNEY: You know, I wanted to ensure the public that the Texas Rangers are conducting that investigation as well into any possible criminal activity that may have transpired there on the side of the road in Prairie View.

[20:40:09] And also in my office, I've already assigned two potential prosecutors to that issue.

If, in fact, at the end of the investigation, when everything is reviewed, all of the statements, all of office reports, the videos come in, that we will take an active and proactive approach at looking at that issue as well in addition to the investigation that's going on as to what happened to Ms. Bland inside the jail cell.

COOPER: And just to be clear, when you talk about that they're looking to criminal activity, you're talking about criminal activity on the side of the trooper?

MATHIS: Exactly, exactly. And that's not to say at this point that we believe that there was any criminal activity on the part of the trooper, but that's something the Texas Rangers and myself and the FBI. It's important that we take an active and proactive look at that activity.

COOPER: There was marijuana found in Ms. Bland's system. Is that, in any way, relevant at all to what happened during the traffic stop or any time thereafter in your opinion?

MATHIS: Well, in this case, trying to put together the big picture of what was going on in Ms. Bland's life whether or not she was smoking marijuana, whether that marijuana came from inside the jail, whether she had been smoking marijuana prior -- just prior to her being stopped.

To me, I mean marijuana is, to some extent, a mind altering substance. And we want to have every piece of information we can.

Yeah. So I do think it's relevant to know. COOPER: Two other officers were mentioned in the press conferences, having arrived on the scene during Ms. Bland's arrest have -- do you know -- have investigators spoken to them about the details of the arrest. Have you spoken to them?

MATHIS: I have not personally spoken to them. And that's the one thing that, you know, I keep reminding all of the media when we are talking to them is you have to realize that this is not television. I mean it is television, but this isn't television.

COOPER: Right.

MATHIS: Things take real time. And the one example I will give you is right now, you know, some portions of the jail video happened released to the public, but there's much more jail video that's relevant.

You know, I want to have the video and see the video from the moment that we can see her getting booked, enter into her jail cell, until the time that her body is found and she is removed. That's approximately two and a half three day's worth of video that some investigator is having to watch and analyze in real time so that we can say, "Everything has been properly looked at."

So, you know, that's just an example of some of the evidence-sharing and time constraints that we're having to deal with.

COOPER: Elton Mathis, I appreciate your time again. Thank you.

MATHIS: Thank you, sir. Thank you for the opportunity.

COOPER: All right, I want to dig deeper with CNN's Legal Analyst, Former Federal Prosecutor, Sunny Hostin, also CNN's Law Enforcement Analyst and former NYPD Detective, Harry Houck.

Sunny, do you expect criminal charges against these police officers, because there are two separate tracks on this. There's violation of police procedure, which it seems like they're moving forward with, but then there is actual the idea of actual criminal activity by the officer.

SUNNY HOSTIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Sure. I mean I think it's certainly possible. When you look at that dashcam video, it is very clear to me that that was a bad arrest. That was a false arrest and that is a crime. So I think certainly the investigation is going to be ongoing.

But what I've seen on the dashcam video, I think opens him up to criminal exposure.

But to be clear, the family has indicated that they haven't ruled a lawsuit.

And you're talking about her constitutional rights, I think, and her civil liberties being trampled upon. And so I think she's got civil exposure, too.

COOPER: Harry, do you think that's possible?

HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, I think that I don't see any criminal charges here, as far as taking her out of the vehicle. We have Pennsylvania versus Mimms, 1977, the Supreme Court ruling -- state that a police officer can order somebody out of the vehicle.

COOPER: Do you see more likely a violations protocol? I mean what they're saying is, you know, he wasn't courteous, which is part of what the Department of Public Safety demands and things like that.

HOUCK: Exactly. So I don't see anything criminal here. As far as -- you're right. I do have that one issue with the arrest that when he told her when she was inside the vehicle whether she was under arrest and he said, "Yes," I was wondering what for at the moment.

COOPER: Right.

HOUCK: Because she really wasn't placed under arrest. And the affidavit specifically says it was for assault.

COOPER: Right. And there had been no assault at that point.

HOUCK: Right, exactly at that point. So that's going to be a little bit of an issue ...

HOSTIN: That's a false arrest.

COOPER: That's a false arrest ...

HOSTIN: In my view.

HOUCK: Well ...

HOSTIN: In my view.

HOUCK: You know, he's asking her to get out of the vehicle and ordering her to get out of the vehicle, and the Supreme Court says he can do it.

COOPER: The ...

HOSTIN: Well...

COOPER: Go ahead.

HOSTIN: I'm not going to argue with you about what the law says and what the Supreme Court found. But I think when you really look at that case very closely, it would -- and the facts of this case, it would really have to have been for his safety.

[20:45:03] And after he walks away for five minutes, Harry, and then goes back and he was going to give her a warning, it was very clear ...

HOUCK: The Supreme Court decision doesn't say anything about safety.

HOSTIN: ... that his actions are unlawful.

HOUCK: And so, all he has to do is have a complete stop and have somebody detained and that all it says . HOSTIN: In this particular case, his actions were clearly unlawful.

COOPER: The idea though -- I mean according to this preliminary autopsy report -- the report, it said she was under the influence of marijuana when she died. She had been in jail for three days. Does that make any sense?

HOSTIN: It doesn't make sense ...

COOPER: I mean unless she got marijuana somehow in the jail.

HOSTIN: Yeah. I mean as an -- in my experience as a prosecutor, it was very clear that ...

COOPER: But she wasn't visited by anybody.

HOUCK: Right.

HOSTIN: ... but it takes 24 hours generally for marijuana to leave your system. So three days later for any amount of marijuana to be in her system other than a trace amount is really odd to me.

I mean did she ingest marijuana a large quantity at the traffic stop? Was she given marijuana, you know, in the jail? I think those are open questions.

But I also think we need to stop focusing on the victim. I think we need to start focusing on all of the problems that this process have been uncovered. I mean we're talking about a false arrest and we're talking about a jail cell that she was kept in isolation, not on suicide watch. There are just her civil -- there are civil violations throughout and I think that's only ...

COOPER: Do you believe there is no doubt they're open to civil case?

HOSTIN: There is no question.

HOUCK: I agree, 100 percent

COOPER: Do you agree with that?

HOUCK: Yes, exactly.

COOPER: ... suicide watch, no question about it.

HOSTIN: Absolutely.

HOUCK: Sure.

COOPER: We got to leave it there. Sunny Hostin, Harry Houck, thank you all. This is not the only case of a simple traffic stop getting out of control. And quickly, up next, we'll take a look at other cases, where getting pulled over for what should have been a traffic ticket at the most, escalated badly.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out. Get out of the car. Get out of the car.



[20:50:03] COOPER: Well, the Sandra Bland Case has raised a lot of questions, no doubt about it. Not the least of which is how getting pulled over from alleged failure to use a turn signal could possibly have escalated the way it did.

We've seen the dashcam video. We did some digging and we found other instances, where what should have been a simple traffic stop turned into something else entirely.

Randi Kaye reports.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Virginia Beach, an 18-year-old is pulled over for a broken tail light. Police tell her passengers in the back seat to get out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: You are going to keep your hand visible at all times. Step out of the vehicle.

KAYE: The 17-year-old, Brandon Winn, refuses.

BRANDON WINN: Get off me, man.


KAYE: Watch what happens next. The officer tries to pull Brandon out. Then pepper sprays him.

WINN: Get off of me now. Stop. I totally buzzed out (ph).

KAYE: And tases him after multiple warnings.


WINN: Ouch.

KAYE: Officers charged Brandon with assault on a police officer, obstruction of justice, and marijuana possession. He's still behind bars after six months.

LIEUTENANT KEVIN DILLON, WETHERSFIELD, CONNECTICUT, POLICE, RETIRED: It was a reasonable order just to get out of the vehicle. If he is moving around shuffling in the back, they have no idea what he might be doing.

KAYE: Brandon Winn's attorney told us the family was horrified at the excessive violence.

What most people may not know is that if an officer lawfully pulls you over for traffic violation, police can order you out of your car.

The Supreme Court ruled in the case of Pennsylvania versus Mimms that officers can, in fact, order a driver to exit the car when there are safety concerns. No arguments, no refusals. You must do what the officer says.

Florida, this woman is pulled over for a traffic violation, but refuses to put her window all the way down.

VICTORIA KING: Why do you need the window all the way down?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: For my safety because I am going to be putting it.

KING: No, no, stop right there.

KAYE: Victoria King doesn't give in. Instead, she starts recording with her cell phone, which is her legal right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Ma'am if you do not roll down the window all the way. Ma'am I'm recording it also on this camera. I need you to roll down the window all the way. Open the window. If you don't open the window, I'm going to break the window, ma'am?

DILLON: If you have the time, you're going to say, "Listen, the reason I don't want to put my arms in there is because you could drive off real quick and get me injured." So, he could have probably tried to explain it to her a more.

KAYE: Instead, this.

KING: Oh my god, are you serious?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Get out. Get out of the car right now.

KING: Oh my ...

KAYE: A jury later found Victoria King guilty of battery and resisting an officer.

And in Columbia, South Carolina, an even more intense encounter when a highway patrol officer pulls over a man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE: Yes, sir. Get out of the car. Get on the ground. Get on the ground.

KAYE: The man turns back inside his car to get his license, and the officer fires.

LEVAR JONES: Why did you do this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE: Well, you don't plead first back into your car.

JONES: I'm sorry.

KAYE: The officer was fired and charged with aggravated assault and battery. He pleaded not guilty.

The victim, 35-year-old, Levar Jones, survived, and was awarded $285,000 from the State of South Carolina.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.


COOPER: It's tough to watch. Coming up, something to make you smile at end of the day, The Ridiculist is next.


[20:56:41] COOPER: Time now for the Ridiculist. And tonight, we have a story from Florida, where a retired fire fighter named Bob was summoned by a neighbor with an unusual problem. There was a big bear in her backyard.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And when he rounded the corner, he knew he was going to leave this one alone.

BOB: That's a big bear. That's a huge bear.


COOPER: A huge bear indeed, with an equally huge appetite. As Bob started snapping pictures, he noticed that the bear had hauled a 20 pound bag of dog food from a neighbor's garage and was chowing down.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Bob couldn't keep the camera still because he started laughing. The bear, like a person, who has eaten too much was tossing and turning.

BOB: Repositioned three or four times. Stretched out. It just laid there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And eventually dozed off.


COOPER: The bear eventually then walked off into the woods, where we can assume he did what bears do in the woods.

This is just the latest in a series of earth sign events proving that bears are pretty much just like us. They eat too much. They fall asleep. They chill in Daytona Beach.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got in the hammock. Lying back like it was -- I mean a tourist or something. And something spooked him. And he ran right through there. Fast. And then I said, "Well, he is gone." Half an hour later, he come back and there it was in the hammock again.


COOPER: That's a great photo. Sometimes they also wanted to change their pace, maybe a nice cabin in Utah.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bear went and took this handle and put it down and I saw the handle moving inside. And that bear came right into the house and stood right here and looked around.


COOPER: Bears can now use door handles. I'm completely comfortable with that. That will not haunt my dreams at all

I'm also cool with the fact that bears are in cities as well, sometimes taking leisurely strolls through Los Angeles.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he came down that driveway, down Mayfield and now he's on bridge. And now, it looks like he's got turning into another driveway. Here, we're going to kind of maneuver around and see if we can another shot of him. But, yeah, he definitely -- oh, oh, oh -- OK, we got something now, a resident there.


COOPER: Yeah, that's a fun afternoon, just to walk in and then texting and minding your own business.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was texting my boss that I would be late from work. Something is going on. And I'm coming down the stairs and I see the bear coming up the stairs towards me. So I turned back and then run for my life.


COOPER: Clearly, the lesson of all of this is that the bears are taking over. And only one person, one person so far has the fortitude to stand up to them, Carl, from California. Here his tale, possibly tall, of his bear encounter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARL MOORE, EX-FIRST RECON MARINE: I ain't running from nothing. I never have in my whole life and I ain't going to start now for some damn bear. And I cussed at him. Yeah. Get out of here you. He looked at me like, "Go F yourself."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Carl landed a whirling haymaker, punching the bear right in the face.

MOORE: Man or beast that I run from ain't been born. And its mama is already dead.


COOPER: When you make a threat, it's particularly powerful to have a little tiny dog that crook in your arm.

I see no need to resort to a whirling haymaker, like he did, when a 20-pound bag of dog food seems to be just as effective at least on the Ridiculist. That does it for us. We'll see you again 11 p.m. Eastern for another edition of 360.

And CNN Original Series of 70s starts now.