Return to Transcripts main page
Donald Trump Gaining Even More Traction; The Shocking Story Of A Woman Who Fought Back Against Suspected Serial Killer - And Lived To Tell About It; "Trainwreck's" Colin Quinn Discusses Louisiana Theater Shooting. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 27, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:03] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Get used to it, America; Donald Trump is not going anywhere. Not yet, anyways. This is CNN Tonight I'm Don Lemon. Trump is on top of the Republican field in the latest CNN ORC poll. And let's face it, we like to watch. Donald Trump also tops the list of Republicans you most want to see debate. Well, tonight, is it a movement, as Trump says?
Plus, the shocking story of the woman who fought back and killed a suspected serial killer. How she lived to tell about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEATHER, KILLED NEAL FALLS: I knew he was there to kill me. I could tell that he had already done something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I want to begin with the day in Trump. Is Donald Trump right? Is he leading a movement? Joining me now is David Brody, chief political correspondent for the Christian Broadcasting Network, and Scottie Nell Hughes, news director for the Tea Party News Network, and Republican political strategist, Kevin Madden, who has worked for Mitt Romney's campaign, among others.
So, Kevin, I'm going to begin with you.
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
LEMON: Donald Trump is now sitting at the top of the whole pile of Republican candidates. Is the entire GOP establishment squirming right now?
MADDEN: Well, I think -- I think obviously the GOP establishment is very focused on electability and they're focused on governing. And I think when they look at, Don, when they look at Donald Trump, they see somebody who would be very -- who have a very hard time in the general election and somebody who's may be very -- may enjoy a lot of the theatrics of campaigning but is not very serious about governing.
We have elected as presidents either founding fathers, generals who have won wars or people in elected office. Donald Trump isn't either or any of those. So, I think it would be very difficult to see him win a general election. And as a result, you're right, Republicans are I think concerned.
LEMON: They are squirming as we said.
LEMON: So, David, Donald Trump says this isn't about him. It's a movement of people who are sick and tired of Washington politicians who can't get anything done. Is he right?
DAVID BRODY, CBN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think he is absolutely right. Don, this is an antiestablishment movement combined with some tea party, throw in some evangelicals, throwing some independents, Republicans. My, goodness. Even some democrats. It's like a Republican-dependent-democrat type movement.
I mean, it's everything. And why is that? Because it's very simple. He's not a politician. He doesn't act like one. And quite frankly, while everybody is playing in their same lane, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, and everybody, there is Donald Trump all by himself in his own lane and he's going to do whatever he wants until somebody slows him down.
LEMON: So, explain this to me then if you mentioned, you know, you said Evangelical Christians because you've written about this. I mean, let's be honest about Trump, he is married, divorced, married, divorced. Pro-choice before he wasn't. So, why the appeal, why do you compare to the tea party and you bring in the Evangelicals.
BRODY: Right. I think -- no. It's an excellent question. It's a question I get sked a lot. Look, I'm going to morph into Dr. Phil mode here a little bit and say this very simply. Both Trump and the Evangelicals operate in a world of biblical absolutes. Let me rephrase that, absolutes for Donald Trump, biblical absolutes for Evangelicals.
But the bottom line is, it's still absolute. It's a world of black and white, right and wrong, winners and losers. And let's also remember, very, very important, Donald Trump is being ridiculed in public, at least that's what his fans say, ridiculed for in public for speaking out so boldly. News flash, Evangelicals have been getting ridiculed in ridiculed in public for speaking out on their Evangelical views for a very long time. There is a kinship there. That's about the deepest I can go, Don, that's the Dr. Phil explanation.
LEMON: OK. Hold no prisons. Good. Scottie, go ahead.
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TEA PARTY NEWS NETWORK NEWS DIRECTOR: I'll be entering. Here's the thing, it's not about the Evangelicals because Trump is not hitting on socialist issues. That is something very, very positive. It's all about the economy. It's all about the jobs. That's something that hits not just the religious vote but everybody. That's where his appeal is.
You could see, he's not out there -- granted he did made an opinion on the Planned Parenthood but because the actions were illegal.
BRODY: Well. HUGHES: What he is talking about is the economy. That's why he is resonating with not just Republicans or democrats or independents, it's everybody across the board that has continued. And to be honest with you, he has shot a much needed adrenaline into a zombie-like of a party that has been dead and has lost the last the life of two elections because they keep putting the dead candidates at the top of the ticket.
LEMON: And to David's point, you know, this is all black and white. This is take no prisoners, he feels free to say whatever he wants about his rivals and they come right back at him. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is not war hero.
COOPER: He's a war hero. Five and a half years.
TRUMP: He is a war hero because he was captured.
LINDSEY GRAHAM, SOUTH CAROLINA SENATOR: He is a jack ass.
TRUMP: Then I watch this idiot Lindsey Graham on television. What a stiff. What a stiff. Lindsey Graham. And then I see Rick Perry the other day. And he's so, you know, he's doing very poorly in the polls, he put glasses on so people will think he is smart. And it just doesn't work. You know, people can see through the glasses.
[22:05:08] RICK PERRY, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservatism.
JEB BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The problem with Mr. Trump's language is it's divisive. It's ugly. It's mean-spirited.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. Usually, I think and maybe I'm wrong Scottie, this is reserved for the later part of the campaign when everyone is really fighting, right, to get in there. This is just the beginning. Is this good or bad for the party that they're so now candid about how they feel about each other?
HUGHES: But here's the thing. People keep saying like Trump is throwing the first shot. He is not.
LEMON: That's nice.
HUGHES: He is actually crunching back and defending.
BRODY: That's true.
HUGHES: Let's go back. John McCain sat there and called the people crazy. And it's not a term of endearment that McCain is trying to cover. They've been called tea baggers. Conservatives have literally been demonized so bad the past eight years. All Donald Trump is doing is saying, you know what, I will be your defender. They can sit there and pummel me and it doesn't do any damage.
In fact, the more people like John McCain, McConnell, and Barack Obama pummel him the more people get excited because finally, we have somebody out there that is willing to take a risk and stand out to these people who have literally taking advantage of all of us for the last eight years.
LEMON: OK. Kevin, this is for you.
LEMON: Because the other candidates are being asked about Donald Trump just about everywhere. I know they must be sick of it.
LEMON: And just tonight, Chris Christie field the questions about him. Take a listen, then we'll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you and all the other presidential candidates think that you can do any better than a gentleman named Donald Trump who has been extremely successful and understands what capitalism is about and has done extremely well? Now don't tell me because you have got political experience. That's not what -- I don't really want to hear that. I know you've done a lot...
CHRIS CHRISTIE, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I love the fact that you ask the question and tell me what I can answer, right? Here's the thing. I just don't believe that the skills that you're talking about that Donald has...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
CHRISTIE: ... are transferable to a governmental setting. I just don't. See, because Donald would spell Speaker Boehner, I want this bill and I want it on my desk because this is what's best for America. And Speaker Boehner what he's going to say, yes, well, I don't have the votes for that so I can't give it to you. He can't look at him and say, Speaker Boehner, you're fired. He can't do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you're saying that you have to be a politician?
CHRISTIE: No. I'm saying you have to have some experience in knowing how to deal with people that way. And he has not shown that over the course of his career.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I'm not so sure about that well.
CHRISTIE: If the goal here is to find the person to be the President of the United States who can get the most attention he's going to win hands down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Kevin, you want to know what's behind the polling, it's that lady right there. She sums it up. Republicans they want to be talking about themselves and bashing democrats. But instead, they have to minimize Donald Trump's influence. John McCain said, try to ignore him as much as possible.
MADDEN: Yes, that's right. I think at the heart of that woman's question was the idea that Donald Trump is not a politician and right now there is a very anti-politician vibe running through the electorate. I think where Donald Trump really succeeds is, you know, providing this perception that he's this truth talker, that he's, you know, unvarnished personality.
But the problem is -- and this is where I disagree with Scottie. Donald Trump is not a conservative. Conservatives are about ideas, conservatives are about substance. Nothing that Donald Trump has done has been about ideas. It's been about Donald Trump. It's been about him as an individual.
LEMON: Is he the new conservative?
HUGHES: Wait a minute. How can you...
LEMON: Is he the new conservative?
MADDEN: And look, let's remember that he has a long history of supporting things like Universal Health Care. He has a long history of hostile comments about Second Amendment. These are things that Republicans hold very dear.
HUGHES: Don, but when it comes out there he talks about the border.
MADDEN: And he also praised -- but he praised Nancy Pelosi as doing a good job. He's praised Hillary Clinton before.
BRODY: You know, here's the problem.
LEMON: One at a time.
HUGHES: You know what?
LEMON: Let Scottie first, and then David.
HUGHES: Let me say this, you are right.
BRODY: And he doesn't promote ideas.
HUGHES: Talking about the border is not conservative. It's American -- and that's -- you're completely correct that he is talking about things that apply to everybody. You want to get into these issues like gun control and about. You know, I go for press him on those issues. That's what we are going to see in the debate...
HUGHES: ... probably the second one. But right now he is talking American. He's actually sitting there. And the key is, people are tired of the GOP because the GOP has done nothing.
HUGHES: There is no difference between a GOP controlled Congress and a democrat.
LEMON: OK. David.
HUGHES: We've sent one bill that's been vetoed by the president. The American people have seen it. The Republicans have seen it. Donald Trump is different and that is why people are resonating with him.
LEMON: David Brody, go ahead.
BRODY: I think Scottie, I think makes a good point. Here's is thing. Kevin is right on paper. The problem is his campaign isn't played on paper right now. And that's a big part of the issue. Look, you can make a blueprint as to why Donald Trump should not be the GOP nominee on paper. But this is the politics of emoting. This is the bully pulpit.
[22:09:59] This is an emotional connection that a candidate, whether it be Donald Trump or anybody else, has with the voters. And Kevin knows that. And so, therefore, at least we're in the stage now of a potential forging of an emotional connection. Who knows if it's going to last. But that is...
MADDEN: Well, that's the case.
BRODY: ... that very important, though.
MADDEN: That's it I mean, is 20 -- is 18 percent of the electorate right now, is that really a movement? And is it sustainable? I think that's really going to be the question as we see over the next few months.
MADDEN: Well, so, 80 percent, you know, another 80 percent of the electorate doesn't like Donald Trump or they like somebody else.
HUGHES: But let's remember this. Barack Obama got elected not basically because of his resume but because how he was at the people and that's the Donald trump that...
MADDEN: And how he'd worked out as a president?
LEMON: We had a whole lot...
MADDEN: How he'd worked out as a president?
LEMON: He has a whole lot of...
HUGHES: And he got elected.
MADDEN: How did he work out as a president?
LEMON: Hang on. We got a whole lot of Republican candidates in there, and he is at the top of the list of a whole bunch of people who consider themselves conservatives. So, again, Donald Trump not going anywhere as we said for a while. Thank you, guys. Next time, can you bring the passion, please. I would appreciate it.
When we come right back, an incredible true crime story. She turned the tables on a suspected serial killer and he ended up dead. How she made it out alive.
LEMON: Let's bring in the woman is so lucky to be alive tonight. She fought off a man who attacked her, grabbing his gun, shooting and killing him. But the story just doesn't end there. Police now suspect the man may have been a serial killer. We turn now to Boris Sanchez with the very latest. Wow.
[22:15:02] BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is an unsettling case, Don. Investigators looking at any potential links across several states to this man. He has left behind a bit of a trail. Meantime, the woman who survived the attack lucky, and still understandably shaken.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEATHER: I knew he was going to kill me. I could tell that he had already done something because he said that he was going to prison for a long time.
SANCHEZ: After opening her door to a stranger who answered her escort ad on backpage.com a West Virginia woman, who police call on "Heather," says the man became aggressive wrapping his hands around her throat.
HEATHER: He was saying, you're going to be quiet; I'm going to call the orders.
SANCHEZ: Moments later, she runs from her Charleston home pleading for help and chasing down a neighbor, who calls 911.>
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a lady in the alley here. She's saying that some tried to rape her and she had to defend herself. She's got cuts and stuff all over.
HEATHER: When he strangled me he just wouldn't let me get any air. And when he laid the gun down to get the rake out of my hands up, I shot him.
SANCHEZ: The attacker, Neal Falls, a 45-year-old man, police believe could be a serial killer. A kill kit inside his Subaru has led investigators to a string of murders. Items inside included a machete, axes, knives, a shovel, a large container of bleach, and trash bags.
STEVE COOPER, CHARLESTON POLICE DEPARTMENT LIEUTENANT: We also found four sets of handcuffs in Mr. Falls' pockets. And the brutality of the attack that took place in the house where the victim was able to defend herself and survive -- all those things together lead us to believe that Mr. Falls has been involved in similar crimes. He's 45 years old. It's unlikely this is his first violent crime.
SANCHEZ: The case now extending far beyond West Virginia. Investigators in Nevada, Oregon, and Illinois all looking at potential clues that may reveal insights into his past. Authorities tell CNN an item found in Falls' car is believed to be linked to evidence discovered on several dismembered bodies in Las Vegas back in 2005 where Falls lived at that time.
There were remains found in trash bags. All of the victims escorts. One of the cases, Lindsey Marie Harris, whose dismembered legs were discovered in Illinois three weeks after she disappeared. Investigators are also looking at any potential cases in Eugene, Oregon where Falls lived in 2010.
PAULINE, NEAL FALLS FORMER LANDLORD: Little creepy, very kind of tight lipped and, you know, not a charmy guy definitely. Not a charmy guy. Somebody who doesn't want to be exposed.
SANCHEZ: His former landlord describes his behavior as odd. She had him evicted a year after he moved in. All sources tell CNN that no evidence has yet pointed to a direct link. Heather believes she stopped Falls from hurting others.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel like you possibly saved other women's lives?
HEATHER: I know I did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Boris, you mentioned Oregon. He had an Oregon licensed plate. Did he have family there? What's the connection? SANCHEZ: All that we know is that he lived in Oregon for at least a year in 2010. That comes from his landlord. As far as family goes, CNN spoke a woman who claims to be his sister. She told us she wants nothing to do with her brother. She refused us to give anymore, and so the family would not be putting out statement.
LEMON: Do you know what he did? He seems -- he's such an ordinary guy. You just walked, as you said when you were listening to this, you just walk right by him on the street. What did he do for a living? What profession?
SANCHEZ: We know that in Las Vegas he was a security guard. We also know he did the same in Oregon. In fact, that's the reason he told his landlord that he had such a large collection of guns. He was also working the night shift there.
LEMON: Lindsey Harris, Las Vegas, what else can you tell us about that, you mentioned her.
SANCHEZ: So, there were three other women that were missing in Las Vegas. Two of them, their remains were discovered. One of them just outside Las Vegas, the other in California. The third one, a Canadian is still technically missing; her remains have yet to be discovered.
LEMON: And do you think he went there without money? So, how was it going?
SANCHEZ: From what we've heard from lawmakers, he went to the scene apparently answering this escort ad but he didn't have any cash on him.
LEMON: What does that tell you?
LEMON: Thank you, Boris Sanchez. I appreciate it. Up next, more on the trunkful of weapons found in the car and who police think Neal Falls was possibly going to target. That's next.
[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A West Virginia woman kills an attacker in self-defense. And it turns out he may have been a serial killer. Joining me now is Lieutenant Steve Cooper, chief of detectives for the Charleston West Virginia Police Department. And also, Mary Claire Akers, senior assistant prosecuting attorney in the Kanawha County Prosecuting Attorney's Office.
Thanks to both of you. Lieutenant, to you first, why do you think that Neal falls may be a serial killer?
COOPER: We suspect that he may be a serial killer based upon the brutality of the attack from this past Saturday and from the items that we found in his vehicle. We would actually term what we found in there as a "serial killer kit." There are other cases across the country that he may be connected to due to the fact that he lived there at the time of the crimes. And those girls were dismembered.
LEMON: What evidence do you have that connects him to these other cases? And what do you mean by a "serial killer kit?"
COOPER: When you look at the items that were found in Mr. Falls' vehicle and what was on his purse at the scene of the attack, what comes to mind for an investigator is that, this is a "serial killer kit."
By that, I mean, he had four sets of hand cuffs, a 9-millimeter hand gun, a lot of handcuff keys. A large container of bleach, along with a machete. Several axes, a shovel. A large cache of trash bags. Box cutters. Numerous cutting instruments. Long knives. And he actually had a bulletproof vest in his vehicle.
LEMON: And he actually had a bullet-proof vest in his vehicle.
LEMON: And then he also has a connection to Las Vegas, right? What was he doing there?
[22:24:55] COOPER: He lived in the Las Vegas area at the time that four escorts there were either murdered or disappeared. Three of them have been found. One of their -- one of victims' legs were found near Springfield, Illinois. So, he had been all over -- whoever killed those girls traveled back and forth. But Mr. Falls actually lived there in Las Vegas at the time of the disappearance. And some of their body parts were found in trash bags.
LEMON: Mary Claire, I want to ask you this. Well, Heather, you know, the woman who killed Neal Falls, will she face any charges considering the type of web site and all of that? Is she going to face anything?
MARYCLAIRE AKERS, KANAWHA COUNTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY'S OFFICE: No, she will not. In West Virginia there are varying degrees of murder but when somebody is equity protecting themselves, when they believe someone is out to do them harm, kill them or hurt them, a person is allowed to use whatever force necessary to protect themselves. And she did that.
He came into her house with a gun. He told her live or die. He immediately attacked her and took her to the ground, choked her, said that she couldn't talk or scream. And was actually raising her up by her throat when she realized that he had put the gun down in order to choke her. And she grabbed it and shot him behind -- from behind her shoulders. You know, just a wild shot just to get him off her and she ended up killing him. And that's completely justified.
LEMON: So, let me ask you this because, you know, the lieutenant talked about a "serial killer kit". But as I understand that he had a list of other women on his possession, names or what have you. Talk to me about that. Did he plan to contact these women? What's going on there?
AKERS: I would assume that he did. All of these women were on the same web site, As I understand, advertising their services as escorts. He had them all. Neal written down on a piece of paper. He seems to be planning to either visit them all or contact them. But it came that that he didn't...
LEMON: And they're OK now, right?
AKERS: Yes. As far as we know, everyone has been contacted. Everyone is accounted for and he wasn't able to make it there. And he wasn't in our state for very long. He had only been at least in our city for 24 to 48 hours.
LEMON: Yes. You know, oftentimes this is someone who is leads a very ordinary life at least on the surface that you would least expected, you know, quiet, keeps to themselves. We hear that all the time. What else can you tell us about Neal Falls?
AKERS: And from what I saw, Neal Falls intended to do her harm as soon as he walked through the door. He planned it. He looked like he had a good method for contacting people and figuring out who was vulnerable. He looked like he was organized, obviously from what Steve said, the things in his vehicle made it look like he at least planned to hurt her and maybe get rid of her.
We don't note. But the way that you tell what someone is going to do is through their words and actions and how they behave and what they have. He had everything and said everything that would make someone believe that he intended on killing her.
LEMON: What about in his personal life? What was he like, Steve? Is there anything that would draw attention to him?
COOPER: We've received varying accounts when we have spoken to people who've known him. One former neighbor of his said that he was actually very creepy and that she was glad when he left. Others have said that he's a friendly enough guy and that he was pretty nondescript. He hasn't had a lot of contact with family recently. He's kind of went off the grid within the last year or so.
And from there, he has traveled -- he has had a lot of contact with law enforcement across the country. No real criminal record to speak of but he's been investigated on traffic spots on numerous occasions in Texas, Kansas, Iowa, Oregon, Nevada, California. So, his contacts with law enforcement have clearly at least caused suspicion during their interaction.
LEMON: So, you have no doubt that he planned to kill Heather and other women, correct, even beyond Heather?
COOPER: I have no doubt he planned to kill Heather and I know that he appears to have been on the way to contacting other women after he left her apartment.
LEMON: How is Heather?
COOPER: Heather is recovering from her injuries. During the attack she received a broken vertebra, a separated shoulder, a lot of hair yanked out of her head and quite a few abrasions and bruising. Some pretty severe strangulation marks around her throat.
We went and saw her today. She's recovering. She is still fragile emotionally and fearful of just the memory of what happened. But she seems to be recovering and we're going to try to help her through that. And thankfully, she was able to survive the ordeal.
AKERS: We did talk with her today. We want to get with her and see what kind of help she needs if she needs help and stay with her because, you know, part of our job is to help victims. Even though there is not going to be a criminal case here, we still want to help her is she wants help.
[22:29:59] LEMON: Lieutenant Steve Cooper and also Maryclaire Akers, thank you very much.
AKERS: Thank you.
COOPER: Thank you.
LEMON: Coming up, inside the minds of killers, from Neal Falls to the Louisiana Theater shooter, what drives them and how can they be stopped?
LEMON: Police say the woman, the young woman who killed Neal Falls when he tried to strangle her may have saved the lives of more women. Based on what they're calling geography and evidence, investigators believe Falls may have been a serial killer with victims in Illinois, Nevada, and Oregon.
Joining me now is Dr. Drew Pinsky, addictionologist and host of Hl.N's "The New Dr. Drew". And psychologist Stephen Seager is the author of "Behind the Gates of Gomorra."
I can't wait to have this conversation with. So, Dr. Seager, you fist. Let's talk about this potential serial killer. You've interviewed and treated lots of serial killers, does this guy fit the profile?
STEPHEN SEAGER, NAPA STATE HOSPITAL PSYCHOLOGIST: He does. The serial killers generally fall into kind of the con man, slick Ted Bundy type. They get, you know, they get the answer ads and they are on Facebook and they can make arrangements.
[22:35:03] And, if you remember, he wasn't being followed by police. It wasn't apparent that he was a serial killer. It's just he happened to get caught. And they have to what's called the cooling off period, which separates them from mass murders and spree killers.
Mass murders kills everybody, one spree killers kill people in succession. But serial killers will kill, dispose of the evidence, move on maybe geographically. And they are very hard to catch. I remember Ted Bundy very well when I was growing up. It's that kind of -- they're more psychopaths than they are mentally ill. But they're also mentally ill serial killers and that's who he ends up.
LEMON: OK. So, then here's the question then that I'm sure most people want to know. How exactly do you treat a serial killer?
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST, "THE NEW DR. DREW SHOW": You can't.
SEAGER: Well, what you do, we treat serial killers who are mentally ill, we treat the mental illness. And I will tell you, I just to bring in the Louisiana guy briefly, that kind of person, if the treatment system had not collapsed and if the treatment was available, those people get well. Serial killers as you correctly guessed, those kind of people should be in jail. Unless they are mentally ill on top of that we really can't do much for them.
LEMON: Dr. Drew, go ahead.
PINSKY: I think, Don, yes, the way people think of it, the people are always -- when I try to explain and understand what motivates certain kinds of behaviors people get very upset about it. They just say why can't it just be evil. Why can't people just be evil. And when Dr. Seager is talking about, which is psychopathy, that's the closest thing I know to a truly evil person. There are genetic and environmental components to that and it really doesn't get better over time. Does is not, Dr. Seager?
SEAGER: Now that's exactly right. And that's the problem. We see people have a third component who are mentally ill. But once they get treated for the mental illness, we kind of stuck with the psychopathy. And the doctor is right, Dr. Drew, he hit it right on the head. There is the genetic, there is environmental.
But basically, these are just really the bad people of the world and they need to be arrested. You know, this lady really did save a lot of people because I'm sure there would be a string more of victims if she hadn't killed him.
LEMON: That's what I want to ask you about, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: And, Don...
LEMON: Can I ask you this, Dr. Drew, because I want to talk about this.
PINSKY: Yes, go ahead.
LEMON: This "kill kit."
LEMON: You've covered serial killers over the years, right? You're giving your expertise on it now, we're learning about this. But this kill kit and this potential list of victims. Are these guys living among us more than we think they are?
Because I had a friend, someone I befriended who was so nice and people said, oh, my gosh, I would not be -- no one knew anything about him. I mean, is that, you know, are more people living among us than we realize, like that?
PINSKY: Yes, well, for sure. And I'm also surprised how sort of naive and uneducated people are about even -- not just in identifying people with psycho, identifying people with mental illness generally. And these people are they are -- just like we all have biological illness, mental illness. I have anxiety disorder, depression. These are very common conditions that we should be much more active in our understanding of these things.
Now, listen, it's very -- one of the challenging parts about having these conservation is we don't o stigmatize people with treatable mental illness that are so common...
PINSKY: ... with these people that are really horrible destructive people. The guy living amongst us sort of, I think sort of two versions that actually or maybe strike me out on this, one is the guy that's like Ted Bundy that's very charming. And usually there is some evidence that there is something going on. How they treat animals is a good piece of evidence for this. But then there are people that the creeps like this guy where they're glad when they move on or move out of their area.
LEMON: Well, that was where I was leading to, is that always the person who is quite and keep to themselves that you don't really know that much about. It could be any ordinary person on the street or is it different. Dr. Seager?
SEAGER: Well, it's different. If you remember Ted Bundy, he was active in republican politics. He had girlfriends. He had family. You know, Jim Jones, this type of thing. They can be any walk of life. Psychopaths live among you. It's true and it's hard to know them. You know, they can be people who live in your neighborhood. But they can also be people know very well. Dr. Drew is exactly right. They're very difficult to sort out. And imagine if this guy -- if this woman had not killed him, how long it would take to sort this guy out. Apparently, he was pretty good at it.
PINSKY: If ever.
LEMON: Yes. Dr. Seager, you know, you mentioned the Louisiana. I want to talk that now. Authorities are saying there are signs pointing to premeditation. He switched out his license plate. He wrote down the movie time in his journal ahead of time. He was also previously treated for mental health issues. Is this just another case of a person with a mental illness left untreated here?
SEAGER: Yes, and the short version. People who are mentally ill are not demented and they're not delirious. They can also premeditate. Even though they are mentally ill. He killed people for a psychotic reason. But that doesn't mean you can't function on some level.
The problem with this fellow and all those other fellows is that they have untreated mental illness. Our system for treating mental illness in the United States has totally collapsed as far as serious mental illness. They get in the system, they frankly just tell the system, excuse my friends, to "f" off, and then they go away and they kill people.
[22:39:59] SEAGER: And there needs to be some sort of different system.
LEMON: Go ahead, Drew.
PINKSY: And Dr. Seager, my suspicion with this guy, is that he may have had some character logics sort of like something like schizoaffective syndrome that needs more chronic care. And those guys are...
LEMON: What does that mean? Say that syndrome again and what does that mean.
PINSKY: Well, I don't want to diagnose him but I'm just thinking of the kinds of things that end up with this chronic downward spirals that really -- and they're paranoid and they don't like dealing with the mental health system and they're very paranoid of it. And they surely don't cooperate and the physicians have no authority to capture them to help themselves. I wonder how Dr. Seagel feels about that.
SEAGEL: You're exactly right. And one of the things that we're trying to fix. Most of the people are paranoid, which means they can function, they amass an arsenal. But there is now a movement called the Assisted Out-patient Treatment. There's a bill in Congress by Representative Murphy helping the families of the mentally ill to allow us, if we can get access to these people, with medications and simply access for six to nine months.
Most of these people get better. Because we get them at NAPA State Hospital. Everyone in Northern California who commits a terrible crime and is mentally ill comes to us, and we have a 60 percent success rate because we have access to treatment. They can't refuse it they have to stay, they get better, they go out, they go back to their family. That's the tragedy. This didn't have to happen at all.
LEMON: Dr. Drew, I want to...
PINSKY: And that is the system that needs to be mandated throughout. It's a rare patient that gets the access to what Dr. Seager is talking about.
LEMON: Dr. Drew, let's talk about his politics here and about other maybe delusional things that he was dealing with. The shooter in Louisiana was being tracked at one point by the Southern Poverty Law Center for Hate Speech, antigovernment views. I mean, where does that fall in this picture particularly as it relates to his mental illness?
PINSKY: I mean, Don. The way to treat mental illness...
SEAGER: It falls to the...
LEMON: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: It evokes in a context. These things, the mental evolves in a context and where they are focusing their paranoia has very much has to do with the world of which they live in. Again, Dr. Seager, I had to refer you on this.
SEAGER: Now, you're exactly right. The majority of them have paranoid schizophrenia. And the difference between paranoid schizophrenia and the others is others schizophrenia is lose IQ points. In paranoid people don't. They're fully functional, they can amass an arsenal, they can plan. But they think God is telling them to kill somebody or they think the FBI is aster them. Or they have way screwy things going on.
And then they actually believe to believe that they are the victims of a plot from the other people. So, of course what you have to do is get a gun, go to the movie theater and kill them.
SEAGER: Where if you can get these people early in treatment, and you get access, involuntary medications if they refuse, a lot of this clears up and a lot of this doesn't have to happen. There is a way out of this.
LEMON: Yes, but how do you figure out, that's a question. How do you figure it out, who is in, you know, in real need of getting some help and who...
PINSKY: Don, it's not hard for people that are professionally trained. We have army's of mental health professionals that can do this. They just don't have the authority to mandate the care of this people need. It's helping them to help themselves. And by the way, the right to the individual now trump the privileges of the community. We can all be in danger to protect this guy's rights not to take care to help himself.
PINKSY: It's a ridiculous system. It's a ridiculous situation.
LEMON: Dr. Drew and Dr. Seagel, thank you both very much. I appreciate you joining us this evening.
When we come right back, one of the stars of "Trainwreck" speaks out about the tragic showing of the film in Louisiana.
[22:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: My next guest stars with Amy Schumer in the smash hit "Trainwreck." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You love your doll.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But what if I told you that it was the only doll you were allowed to play with for the rest of your life. Do you want a stewardess doll.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about a slightly overweight cocktail waitress doll?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about a doll who happened to be best friends with your main doll?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could happen, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: "Trainwreck" is of course, the movie that was playing last week when John Russell Houser started shooting at Lafayette, Louisiana Theater, killing two young women, whose funerals were today.
And joining me now is Colin Quinn, the author of "The Coloring Book," a comedian solves race relations in America. I never thought I would be talking to you about something that was so horrific, right?
COLIN QUINN, "THE COLORING BOOK" AUTHOR & COMEDIAN: Yes.
LEMON: Because you were in the movie. What did you think when you heard about it. Because Amy Schumer tweeted about it saying her heart went out.
LEMON: And so Judd Apatow.
QUINN: Yes, of course. The shooter, I mean, it was brutal. You know, it's so sad because it is one of those movies that you just feel like the good energy of everybody coming to see it. Like groups of girls came together and just thinking about this.
LEMON: What's wrong here when it comes -- what's -- he's 59 years old, hospitalized for psychiatric care at one point. He seems despondent. He was denied a concealed carry permit. What is happening in our society in your estimation for this guy? He was able to legally buy this to the pawnshops.
QUINN: Right. I mean, obviously this, you know what I mean, it's crazy that they still -- and I believe people should be able to own guns, by the way.
QUINN: But, you know, there is no background check. That there's this no waiting period? It's psychotic.
LEMON: You would think -- you know, I think people thought there would be some sort of difference. And that this is deal with the Second Amendment, not that people are against the Second Amendment.
LEMON: There would be some sort of changes after 20 kids died in the school. And then you have.
LEMON: So, what's happening? Why no changes? Why there's no -- do you think this one will make a difference?
QUINN: Because everybody in this country on every issue, not just guns, everybody in this country is so dumb that all they say it is a slippery slope for everything. It's a country of brainwashed people on the left and right to go, that's a slippery slope for everything. Instead of taking issues as they are, they look to the future. They're all lawyers. Our country full of lawyers and psychiatrist that have decided if that happens, this is going to happen, and it's part of a bigger picture. Instead of taking each thing as an actual thing.
LEMON: Is it a believe, what you want to believe sort of thing?
QUINN: Oh, my, God, yes. Yes, you see it every day. I mean, you know.
LEMON: How so?
QUINN: Well, I mean, you see it just in the people say, Don, you have to be like, you have to believe this, this, and this because of who you are. You believe on this, this is how you have to believe on every issue. Same as people can't conceive if you have opinions that are not part of whatever the party line is, whatever the party it is.
[22:50:04] LEMON: Right.
QUINN: It's pathetic. It's idiotic.
LEMON: You know, well, you and I spoke about political correctness that running a mark in this country. Some people think that some of the movie's jokes are little bit racist.
QUINN: Right, right.
LEMON: Your response to that?
QUINN: I mean, you know, look, if they are going to attack this movie for being racist, I mean, you know there is a couple of racial jokes in there, whether or not they are great or not, you know what I mean? It's like a -- but being a racist it's like, you know, the term gets thrown around a lot lately.
LEMON: So, where does that come from, though? Because I mean, you know, you watch I also watch movies where people didn't care so much if you saw a history of the world, you know. But you could not -- do you think you could make blazing saddles...
LEMON: ... these days?
QUINN: No. No. Nobody could make.
LEMON: And how funny was that in the movie?
QUINN: Even a black director couldn't make that movie.
LEMON: Yes. He would be lambasted by African-Americans...
QUINN: Of course, you would.
LEMON: ... than anyone else, right?
LEMON: Than a white director.
LEMON: What's going on?
QUINN: Now everybody is just, I mean, it's partly on line, but there is partly people who -- it's just enough, it's almost like tyranny of the mob, so just enough people on line that are like, hey, that's offensive. And then if you don't join in, people are like, hey, what's wrong with you? Why aren't you agreeing? Well, I see it in another -- that's not enough. That's not 140 characters. Get him.
LEMON: Just remember no, no, no, no -- yes.
LEMON: You know exactly what that was about.
QUINN: Yes, America. Cleveland Little. First of all, who's playing in Cleveland Little?
LEMON: Cleveland in blazing saddles.
QUINN: Oh, my, God.
LEMON: Yes. I think, that's it. OK. I want to talk about this poll that came out last week, the release CBS News, New York Times regarding race relations in the U.S. found that 6 in 10 view race relation as bad in this country, 4 in 10 think it's getting worse. What do you think? Do you agree?
QUINN: I think it's getting -- I think it's getting phonier in ca certain because I feel like, you know, people are getting into like semantics. And once again, nobody wants to sit down and talk about anything other than in the most -- you know, platitudes. They speak in platitudes and just say, you know, we have still got to deal with racism or whatever. Everybody speaks generalities. And then it was fine to go on and live whatever their status quo is. You know what I mean? It's black and white, by the way.
LEMON: Yes, this is the topic of your book that we talked about...
LEMON: ... healing or curing racism.
LEMON: But what do you mean speaking in platitudes? Are you talking about slogans? What do you -- are you talking about black lives matters, white lives -- what are you talking about?
QUINN: Yes. I'm talking about -- I'm talking about like anything like right now, like my opinion would be like, everybody has subconsciously decided black and white people, oh, good, we'll make the cops the proxy of all the problems. We'll make the cops --- because they are the people that kind of deal with actual confrontational situations. We'll make them the proxy. So, everybody, black and white have decided they are going to be the guy we'll choose to deal with instead of having these confrontations.
LEMON: So, what do we do, Mr. Solve racism?
QUINN: Well, we could have a show every week. That's what America does. We have TV shows.
QUINN: You know what I mean, a round table. But you would have to be -- once again, people are not going to be brutally honest if they are going to get boycotted or lose their job. It has to be agreed, right, a year where everybody agrees not to blame anybody for anything. Like you have, like the whole country has to go, OK, we're giving slack on this issue for one year.
LEMON: Here's what I find interesting, is that when we have a meeting every day among our team, not everybody agrees. Sometimes we yell at each other or whatever, but then we all get to work to try figure out how to make it better. When you have these conversations on television what have you, people think like this one conversation we're having is the end of it.
LEMON: Not that the conversation should continue and that we're not going to solve everything in one conversation. QUINN: I know. It's really -- we really are -- my mother says it best.
She says, we won't accept the fact that we're not intelligent enough to have figured out any of these things in the world.
LEMON: Colin Quinn. I just want to make sure you have a new book, your play, your New York story, based on your book, "The Coloring Book" is directed by Jerry Seinfeld playing now at Cherry Lane Theater in New York City.
LEMON: You must come, Don.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
[22:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Watts and Compton are Los Angeles neighborhoods known for high crime, gangs and poverty. The large number of family pets also live there, pets whose owners often struggle to keep them. This week's CNN hero is Lorie Weise is there to help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORI WEISE, CNN HERO: I really believe most people want what's best for their pet. Now, do they have the resources? No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don't want to lose her. I got so attached.
So, many times, people just feel they have to surrender their animal. When in reality, if they understood all the resources, they are happy to keep their animal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll make some phone calls to see if there is anybody that would be willing to foster.
WEISE: I started an organization which offers resources to low-income families so they can keep their pets. The areas we were tend to have the higher crime rates, densely populated, and there's lots of animals. There is a lot of people that are either not employed. They're underemployed. But that does not mean that people don't love their animals.
Are you interested in a free neuter for him?
We offer free spay neuter, vaccines.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you handle this.
WEISE: Dog food. Medical services.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my, gosh. Here's mommy. Come here, Reno.
WEISE: Our job is to find out who is this person? How can we best help them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's crazy because I am a foster child and then you are fostering my dog. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
WEISE: We are offering them as much as we can to be successful with their pet. This is a boy who loves to play.
It gives me a lot of joy to see the dogs with their family.
WEISE: He is so nervous about his dog dying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
WEISE: He thanked me like five times.
Everybody in life needs to find their purpose. And for me, it was really helping people with their animals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:00:07] LEMON: To nominate a hero go to CNNheroes.com. That's it for us tonight. Thanks for watching. "AC360", right now.