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Debris is from Malaysian Airliner; Nashville Theater Shooting Incident; Donald Trump's Rise in the Polls; Debate Coming Up; Interview with Nashville Police Spokesman. Aired 8-9:00 ET

Aired August 5, 2015 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:05] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us tonight.

Late developments in yet another theater attack. New information about the man who went into a showing of "Mad Max," bringing pepper spray, swinging an ax and carrying a gun. What we know about what happened inside that theater and the shootout that followed with two people who were then it happened, actually saw.

We begin, though, tonight with hope and doubt. Almost a year and a half since Malaysia airlines flight 370 vanished, what could if true be a turning point. What would if true be the first chance for so many people who have waited so long for real answers about their loved ones to end month after month of limbo false lead and contradictory statements? All that if true.

Today, Malaysia's prime minister announcing this piece of debris found across the Indian Ocean from where experts think the 777 went down is conclusively a part from the wing of MH370.


NAJIB RAZAK, MALAYSIAN PRIME MINISTER: It is my hope that this confirmation, however tragic and painful, will at least bring certainty to the families and loved ones of the 239 people on board MH370. They have our deepest sympathy and prayers.


COOPER: Officials in France where the part is being tested they're not going as far as the Malaysian prime minister did right there. Nor are American or Chinese officials, nor is the Boeing company not yet, which may help explain why tonight's news is being received with some caution and skepticism as well as relief. In a moment our aviation experts weigh in.

But first, Will Ripley in Beijing where so many passengers were from.

So Will, the Malaysian government is announcing it conclusively confirmed that the debris is MH370, why are they not on the same page as the rest of the officials in the investigation?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of people are asking the question, Anderson, because they have been planning this for days. This was supposed to be a coordinated announcement, but the difference between the message from Malaysia and the difference from that French prosecutor has only added to the confusion and the heartache and pain for a lot of the family members certainly ones we have been speaking to here in China.

Keep in mind the prime minister as a politician is under a lot of public pressure to put this issue to rest, to bring closure to the families. But to use language saying conclusively confirm that really does contradict what the French prosecutor said.

They're looking at this as a criminal investigation. And the single piece of physical evidence that they have, this part of the wing, clearly so far they haven't found the proof that they need to say, definitively, it comes from MH370. They say it is very likely but they don't have that proof yet.

COOPER: Will, do we know the time line according to the rest of the countries involved. For being able to announce whether or not this piece is from 370?

RIPLEY: Well, we know in France they're going to be bringing in more experts and conducting more tests. Although, we don't have a clear picture yet of how many days or weeks or perhaps longer before they're ready to make an announcement about whether this is indeed from MH370.

But of course the other timeline is the search that's been happening in the southern Indian Ocean led by the Australian teams. That has been continuing day in and day out. And that search goes on unaffected, no matter what they, what they decide if they actually do just say this wing, this piece of the wing is from the plane. They're still having to scour very deep ocean. And they're really no closer than they have been in finding the plane in the 239 people.

COOPER: Yes, well you spoke about the families earlier. I know they were notified by Malaysia airlines of the news today. That's right?

RIPLEY: Some of them were, yes. There were phone calls that went out. There was also an e-mail message. It just went out in some cases a few minutes before the prime minister went on live television. I mean, keep in mind the families of 239 people, 15 different countries. But they did send out the alert. Families tuned in to watch. And the ones I spoke to here in Beijing said they're very skeptical. They feel that the Malaysian government really was premature in putting this message out there. Almost forcing closure for the sake of the government without consideration for the families. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I am suspicious of Malaysia airlines word because in the past they have a track record of going back and forth in what they say of being true and not true. What I hope right now is for the Chinese officials to give me a confirmed answer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I don't believe it. I am furious and I think this announcement is very irresponsible.


RIPLEY: Anderson, we have also been talking to a lot of people on Chinese social media. And one woman's message to us, really struck me. She said, I simply can't accept this. I want to see my husband again. So these people are still in this painful sail of limbo, 515 days on.

COOPER: Yes. So long. Will Ripley. Will, thanks very much from Beijing.

I do want to bring in some people, you know, just about all you can know about why planes go down and how to locate them when they do, CNN Richard Quest, CNN safety analyst and former FAA inspector, David Soucie, and also David Gallo who co-led the search at sea for Air France flight 447. He is director of special projects at the Woods Hole Oceanographic institution and also CNN contributor.

David Soucie, all this back and forth as to whether or not this evidence at this point is conclusive. Why isn't everybody on the same page about this right now?

[20:05:23] DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well we, have seen it from the beginning, Anderson, really. It's been this back and forth. As the surviving loving member of the families was saying that it has gone on back and forth, back and forth. We need to make sure this stops. Now on a forensic investigation what is going on in France, you don't use process of elimination and say well it must be a flap. You have to have forensic proof which is the paint. It has to be samples from the paint, from the metal to tie it specifically to the aircraft. That's what they're waiting for. And that's what they mean by 100 percent conclusive.

COOPER: Richard, I mean, the piece of debris, French authorities are doing this additional analysis to confirm whether or not it is from the plane. Is it just the paint they're looking at?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: They're looking at every aspect of it, Anderson. Let's look at some of these. The obvious parts they're going to be looking at for example you can see the front, that's the leading edge of the flaperon. Very little damage has been done here. So they're going to be looking to see exactly why that would necessarily be the case.

But the exact opposite, of course, of that can be seen on the reverse, or the trailing edge of the flaperon. And here you get a very jagged edge. They're going to want to know did that happen when it came off the aircraft either in the air or in the water. Or perhaps that was caused as the -- as the flaperon made its way, that long journey across in the currents.

And then you have the barnacles. And look at them they're everywhere. All across the marine life. By looking at that, they will gain an indication of what has happened. But Anderson, the core question, what is there on this flaperon that Malaysia airlines believes it has identified what the prosecutor called the elements that are specific to that. We don't know what they are. Nor do we know exactly what they believe they show that that could have only come from MH370, Anderson.

COOPER: You know, David Gallo, it's fascinating. You know, Richard pointing out the barnacles. The weathering pieces of -- what's, you know, this piece of debris has picked up being in the ocean. Will investigators be able to get a better idea of where the plane may have gone down just from testing that material? Or can it not be that specific?

DAVID GALLO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I think they will get some general idea, Anderson. And their hope will be that it doesn't contradict anything that led them to believe that the plane was off the west coast of Australia, the satellite handshakes. And you know, we will hear more I think over the next few weeks. But, you know, I was surprised to hear anything at all today. The French are very methodical about how they do things and complete. So it is going to be a while before we hear about where they think this came from.

COOPER: And David Soucie, you know, Richard was just pointing out what appear to be a small amount of damage to the front and that ragged horizontal tear across the back. What does that mean to you? And how do investigators determine exactly how much it came off the plane?

SOUCIE: Well, it means to me that there are two ways it could have come off the airplane. One is by hitting water, it was extended at the time that it did in ditching for example. They could have pulled it off and damaged the trailing edge without damaging the leading edge.

The other way possibly if the aircraft did enter into a very steep stall, and exceeded its Mach limits at which point a flutter would occur on the back of that which would explain that broken trailing edge and then be ripped off by that. But they'll be able to tell that in the metallurgy tests to lack at that and see exactly what type of stress it was under when it came off.

One thing conclusive is that it was not on the aircraft when it hit the water. I can be pretty sure about that because of the fact that if it crashed into the water there would be leading edge damage on it.

COOPER: And Richard, in terms of the pathway of the debris, I mean, you and I looked the other day and modeling that showed the parts of the plane could washed up around Reunion Island between I think it is 12-24 months after the plane's disappearance. So technically more debris could wash up on this island or surrounding air masses, right?

QUEST: Absolutely, Anderson. Look at the dates, 18-24 months what the University of Western Australia said. So we're only just that first part which would have hit Reunion Island over there. There is still a lot more that could head in that general direction. But the question is where would it make landfall? Madagascar? Mozambique? The northern part of the coast there? It will happen on the beaches of that part of the world and that's where the focus of attention will be coming.

[20:10:09] COOPER: Richard Quest. Thank you. David Soucie, David Gallo as well.

Just ahead tonight, late details on a man police say tried to commit mass murder at a Nashville movie theater and two people who were there when it happened. We are going to hear from them.

And later, how the Republican candidates are preparing for tomorrow's big debate. And why Donald Trump says he is not.


[20:13:04] COOPER: New information tonight about the man who tried to commit mass murder, but failed and died at the hand of mass gunfire instead.


COOPER: That's how it all ended this afternoon inside a movie theater in Nashville, Tennessee. A gunman spraying pepper spray, carrying two backpacks, and an ax, killed in a shootout with police. No one else killed or no one else seriously hurt.

One person, Steven, who didn't give a last name was in the theater with his daughter. Both were pepper sprayed. He suffered a minor hatchet wound.


STEVEN, WITNESS: I'm eternally grateful, excuse me, for metro police department for their fast response today. And the fact that no one else got injured other than the person who did this. I would ask anyone to pray for his family because he obviously has some mental problems or something else. My family does not want any kind of 15 minutes of fame. We were not looking for any of this. We did nothing to bring this upon ourselves. And I am very, very grateful that no one else got injured here today other than the person who perpetrated this.


COOPER: Yes. It could have been much worse. That where the focus now turns, of course, to the would-be killer. And late information we are just now getting about him, including that he was younger than we had been led believed earlier.

CNN's Boris Sanchez joins us with the latest.

So, I mean, as I said, Boris, clearly this could be much worse. What is the latest we are getting?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, it certainly could have been much worse. One of the reasons it wasn't, just luck. It was a coincidence that two police officers were just outside the theater when the suspect started unloading these canisters of pepper spray. They were tending to a car accident that happened just outside. There were eight people inside the theater at the time. Three of them ran out and got the attention of these officers. One of them went into the theater and engaged the gunman as we know.

You mentioned earlier, officers have described him as a 51-year-old man earlier. We have now learned he is actually 29 years old. He had a surgical mask on. Had taken a gun, a hatchet, as well as helper spray and two backpacks in the theater with him. And the good news only three people sustaining minor injuries, all of them expected to be OK. But again the timing of this is unsettling considering last week there was another shooting at a movie theater. And the case of James Holmes in Colorado is just wrapping up.

[20:15:33] COOPER: I mean, have you learned anything about, or have police said anything about the motivation of this person?

SANCHEZ: There are no clear indications as of the motivation. What we know is that police are still trying to identify this man. Earlier they told us again that he was in his 50s. And someone who was in the Antioch community, it's a neighborhood in Nashville, but as far as whether or not he may have said anything or yelled something out, or if, potentially he was even provoked, it is unknown at this time.

COOPER: Boris Sanchez. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining us now are Jessica Aland and Alex Roby who were inside the multiplex when all of this happened.

Jessica, appreciate you being with us. I understand you were just coming out of another movie when you ran into police officers. What happened?

JESSICA ALAND, WAS IN THE MOVIE THEATER: Yes, basically, we were the only ones in our theater. I walked out to use the restroom. And basically walked straight into the policemen who were armed and had guns. And they immediately told me what was happening and that I should get back into the theater. And if I saw a man, and they described him to me that I should, that we should leave as soon as possible. We should exit the building. So I went back in. And we basically had to take cover for a little bit.

COOPER: So they told you to go back into the theater you were already in?

ALAND: Yes. I hadn't seen -- we didn't actually see the shooter at all. I think he was in a theater close to us. But, luckily we did not have to encounter that.

COOPER: How did the police describe him to you?

ALAND: They said, a white male, red hair, has a gun and quite possibly an ax. And I said I would, what do I do? And they said go back into your theater and wait there. And so -- that's pretty much what happened.

COOPER: Well, I mean, that must have been terrifying. Alex, I understand, so you were inside the theater during this. Did

you hear shots?

ALEX ROBY, WAS IN THE MOVIE THEATER: Well initially before Jessica left the theater, we heard screams coming from another theater. And this is before we knew anything was happening.

ALAND: We thought it was a scary movie.

ROBY: Yes. We just assumed that it is showing next door something that it was really scary. And then once she left, I saw flash lights coming from the projection booth looking for people in our theater. And then all of the video just stopped. And I sat there and then she came back and told us that we need to get down. And then while we were taking cover, we could hear yelling coming from the other theater. And we heard, at least one gunshot.

ALAND: And a couple of minutes later about, five or six policemen came in. And metro police. Metro police. Who is in the theater? And they escorted us out and told us to, to run as far away as we could. And we took refuge in a Zaxby's that was under lockdown for a couple of hours.


Well, I mean it was, I'm glad you guys were together and everything worked out OK.

Alex thank you so much. And Jessica, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Appreciate it.

ROBY: Thank you.

ALAND: Thank you.

COOPER: Well just Ahead, on the eve of the first Republican presidential debate, Donald Trump says he wants to keep it civil and talk about the issues. He also said he is just going to be himself when he take the stage. The question is, some are asking, how do you square those two things? We'll be right back.


[20:22:53] COOPER: Well, Donald Trump has been saying that he will be a fish out of water on tomorrow's debate stage in Cleveland. A first time debater who doesn't plan on practicing or preparing and said he has vowed to just be himself. Does that mean he will bring his blunt talk and take no prisoner style after all he has made news all summer attacking his fellow Republicans? That certainly the Donald Trump most Americans know. Here's what he said about that on "Good Morning America" today.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to attack anybody. And you know, maybe I will be attacked and maybe not. I would rather just discuss the issues. But, you know, certainly I don't want to attack. If I am attack I'd have to, you know, do something back. But I would look like it to be very civil.


COOPER: No doubt Mr. Trump's opponents have been boning up on the issues. So far, though, Donald Trump hasn't shared many specifics on his policy positions, as you know, pinning him down is something of a challenge. His campaign Web site doesn't have an issues page. So the question is what should we expect tomorrow?

Chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash joins me now.

So, I mean, preparations are very much under way for the big event tomorrow night. What is the mood there? I mean, there is so much excitement around the country for this debate?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know that feeling when it is, the day before the first day of school and everybody is kind of walking around with their, you know, with their feeling of anticipation, it's sort of look that minus the trapper keepers here in and around Cleveland.

You see so many people from all of the different campaigns. Remember these are all fellow Republican whose have worked together at various points. That is definitely the sentiment here, the feeling. Most of the candidates are, are already here doing their prepping, doing their discussions, maybe mock debating with their aides from here. Donald Trump since he happens to have his own plane, is going to come in tomorrow, the day of the debate and may leave that night. You definitely have that, the feeling of anticipation here. There is no question about it.

COOPER: You have been talking to the campaigns. What are they saying about their strategies going into tomorrow night? Particularly, I mean, you have to ask when it comes to Donald Trump.

[20:24:58] BASH: Absolutely. Look, almost to a person each candidate's campaign has said to me that their number one goal is to talk about their own records, probably no surprise. I mean, this is really their chance in many ways to introduce themselves to, to the country. A lot of the people we know them because we eat and breathe and sleep politics. But not a lot of people do aside from Donald Trump. So that I think is the main goal.

Having said that, look, it is going to be a two-hour debate. You know how this works Anderson. You moderated these kinds of debates, especially when you have ten people on the stage. They're only going to have, the rules actually say one minute for each answer, 30 seconds for a rebuttal. So, even though there is a lot of time there is not, not going to have a lot of time to really drill down on either the policy or the political point that they want to make.

I think that the person who has the most at stake here, is actually not Donald Trump. It is Jeb Bush. Because he is going to be the guy next to Trump, but also he is the guy who has $100 million plus in his bank account, because pretty much the whole Republican establishment has said this is our guy. They want to show that they have got in a good investment and that he can actually explain himself well, show he has fire in his belly. And over the past couple days he has been a little shaky on that. But he has been practicing going over various ways he can do that. And show Republicans who want a conservative that he actually is one of them. That's another big trick for him, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, all bets are off about tomorrow night. Dana, thank you.

I want to dig deeper with our panel. Joining me now Bill Kristol, editor of the "Weekly Standard" and former chief of staff to vice president Dan Quayle, Jeffrey Lord joins me former Reagan White House political director and CNN now political commentator and contributing editor for American spectator, and Donna Brazile, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist and vice chair of the DNC voter project.

Bill, as you know, I got to ask about, first of all, "the Washington Post" article that says former president Clinton called Donald Trump a couple months ago just before Trump jumped into the race. You have been around politics an awful long time. Are you prepared to rule out the Clintons somehow encouraged Trump to get into this campaign?

BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: They may well have. They attended his wedding of course. They're friends from New York. Trump a major constituent of Hillary Clinton. And I am sure Donald Trump and Bill Clinton get along. They're sort similar types. And I don't think there is a conspiracy here. The great irony is that Donald Trump is now doing much better than Hillary Clinton in my opinion. I mean, his lead is increasing. He is in the cat bird seat right now. And Hillary Clinton is having a terrible month actually.

So the irony will be if bill Clinton encourages Donald Trump to get in the race and Donald Trump survives longer than Hillary Clinton.

COOPER: Donna, I mean, as you know, Donna, I mean, it does feed into conspiracy theories, though, you know, hard to imagine Trump being any one's pawn. But the idea that he is some sort of plant by the Clintons to divide the Republicans during the primary, this article certainly pours some gasoline on that although to Bill's point whether it has the effect or not is arguable?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the Republicans feed off two emotions -- fear and paranoia. And I think in this case it is neither. The truth is that, there were telephone exchanging. And they finally got in touch with each other. It was before Mr. Trump announced. And I'm not surprised at all that Bill Clinton would take a call from Donald Trump or Michael Bloomberg for that matter Bill Kristol if he had his number.

That being said, look, Hillary Clinton's favorabilities are much higher than Donald Trump. Tomorrow night, the focus is going to be on Donald Trump. And we all know that he is very comfortable around the camera. He has been handling himself very well as a nonpolitician. The person who can tap into the outrage, the resentment that most Americans feel about politicians right now. So I say advantage Trump. Advantage, you know, Ben Carson because he is not a politician. The rest of the politicians, they better be on their game because I think Donald Trump is going to bring it on tomorrow night.

COOPER: Jeff, in terms of advantage, though, on that debate stage because of the time limits. I mean, you have a minute to explain your position, 30 second to respond. I mean that's -- that does help Donald Trump who, you know, has not fleshed out a lot of policy positions.

JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: You could deliver a lot of message in those few seconds. You can't deliver a lot of substantive policy positions without getting into the weeds and into the weeds quickly. So you are right, it does help him.

And I would add having been on television for a long time in a professional sense, he knows what he is doing in front of that camera. And I think, you know, some of the others are going to have a problem with it. Maybe not governor Huckabee who has also been in front of the camera. But for the rest I think it could be a problem.

COOPER: Bill, at the outset of the campaign you were giving Trump the benefit of the doubt. You have since soured on him. I mean, my guess is fair to say. Do you think we are going to see a sort of kinder, gentler, more policy specific Donald Trump. Is there a more policy specific Donald Trump?

KRISTOL: I don't know about policy specific. He is capable of being, you know, affable and a nice guy and interesting and entertaining, he can say tough things and can go over the line.


And I was verry annoyed what he said about John McCain, which really in a sense he was saying about the entire military. But he does not sort of personalize it, usually. So I think he is perfectly capable of being somewhat charming up there. I think that's what all of us in the political class have just underestimated, the power of a certain kind of celebrity, who -- the main thing is avoiding the political class mistakes. You said earlier, Anderson, all the other campaigns are talking about their strategy and you read in the CNN report tonight that Scott Walker will spend a few million dollars in Iowa because he wants to buck himself up in September. You never hear that from the Trump people. Trump just seems to show up everywhere. He talks. When you interview Trump, I assume this is at his request, Anderson. You do it in the atrium of his building. It looks like an interesting place, it's kind of colorful and lively. Everyone else is sitting in a studio, looking like a generic politician. The way we look, you know? You know, Trump, there is a kind of brilliance to Trump in the way he handled the campaign so far.

BRAZILE: But the electorate is very volatile at this time. And I think he is tapping into something that is anti-Washington, anti- politician, people who are just disgusted. And Donald Trump is out there saying, you are absolutely right, things are bad, I can make America great again. So right now, he sounds like somebody who is going to give you ice cream and cookies. But we don't know if it really -- if it is really the real deal. So tomorrow night, game on.

LORD: Anderson, one thing, I went back and took a look at a December 1979 Gallup poll. It had Jimmy Carter beating Ronald Reagan 60-36 percent. And there was a statement from Hamilton Jordan, who was then the White House chief of staff, who said that they were salivating over running against Ronald Reagan. No one was going to vote for a right-wing, ex-movie actor for president of the United States. And Pat Cadell was quoted as saying when you look at the data, he says it just makes me salivate, with all the things we can use against Reagan. They were ready to go with this. And of course things turned out a little differently than they thought. So you need to be careful here about getting what you wish for.


COOPER: You said that -- Donna, earlier you said that Hillary Clinton had much better unfavorability ratings than Donald Trump. They're actually about comparable in a number of polls.

BRAZILE: She is in the 40 percentile. And look, anybody who announces they are running for president will eventually --

COOPER: 48 percent.

BRAZILE: Will eventually find themselves in a very unfavorable or underwater. The Republican brand is under water. Severely underwater. These politicians, once you begin to take positions, once you get out there and get exposed, as Mr. Trump will find out. Right now he is on the upside, because he is tapping into something. He is in a volatile lane, he's in that resentment lane. But pretty soon once he starts taking strong positions and spelling out his substance, I guarantee you he will be like underwater, trying to swim back up to the top as well.

COOPER: Bill, do you buy that?

KRISTOL: Anderson, Jeff mentioned Reagan. I don't think Trump is Reagan. I don't think Trump will be the nominee. Probably shouldn't be. But what is Trump's slogan? It is literally Reagan's slogan from '80. I think Reagan's slogan from '80 was let's make America great again. And Trump's is making America great again. Trump knows what he is doing. And there are people around him who know what they're doing, and so it is not just offering ice cream and cookies, like Donna said. In a way that I don't think ultimately maybe is credible or sustainable, he is saying, you know what, we are a great country, we can win. If I am in charge of this country, we'll be tougher abroad, we'll get things going at home. And all the other politicians look so like faded pastels compared to him.


KRISTOL: At the end of the day, you can't do this. You can't do this. But the other politicians should learn from Trump. That's what I'm looking for tomorrow night. Who has learned something from Trump in terms of presenting himself to the American public?

COOPER: Bill, it is interesting you say about -- he, he kind of knows what he is doing. To your point about interviewing him in the lobby of the Trump tower, which is absolutely what he wants. It's not a great place to interview, because of the sound quality, the lighting quality. From a technical standpoint, it is difficult. But I think it does share multiple purposes.

One, it advertises Trump Tower. It sort of looks kind of interesting. It is like a little side commercial for Trump Tower. Plus it allows a group of people who happen to be there to gather, and he also gets a boost from the people, because they're all cheering him and applauding. And after you do the interview, he brings you over to the people and said, like, look at all these people. They like me. They're from all around the world. They're from Mexico. They like me. It is a fascinating experience. Bill Kristol. Good to have you. Donna Brazile. Jeffrey Lord. Thank you.


COOPER: Up next, a serious reality check for Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton. They were supposed to carry the baton for their respective political dynasties, and now both are having some difficulties. We'll take a look at how much trouble they actually may be in.



COOPER: Tonight, two political insiders are getting a reality check on the eve of the first Republican presidential debate. Jeb Bush, who trails Donald Trump in every recent poll, is trying to regain his footing from his latest stumble, a remark he made about women's health funding. While Hillary Clinton's lead in the Democratic primary field is shrinking. As we reported last night, a new poll from WMUR in New Hampshire shows Clinton and Bernie Sanders virtually in a statistical tie in the state; Clinton with a six-point lead, which is barely outside the margin of error. Not so long ago, these two were considered by many to be shoo-ins for their respective nominations. Tom Foreman takes a look.


TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The race was shaping up as a clash of political dynasties. Hillary Clinton, an accomplished politician and heir to her husband's Democratic legacy. And Republican Jeb Bush, a former governor in the third act of his family's long presidential drama. But since then, both campaigns had been hobbled.


FOREMAN: For Clinton, the problem is the past. She has been dogged by questions about her home e-mail server while she was secretary of state.

CLINTON: I did not send nor receive anything that was classified at the time.

FOREMAN: She had been questioned about her role in the Pacific trade deal, the nuclear agreement with Iran, the Keystone XL pipeline, and her caginess has at times frustrated even fans.

CLINTON: If it's undecided when I become president, I will answer your question.

FOREMAN: For Bush, the problems are the present.

JEB BUSH, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not sure we need $500 million for women's health issues.

FOREMAN: His campaign just produced a bad headline, but more often he is producing none at all, or as when he commented on his father's legacy, pundits have found him uninspiring.

BUSH: In fact I have got a t-shirt that says, at the Jeb swag store, that says I'm the -- I'm -- my dad's the greatest man alive. If you don't like it, I'll take you outside.

FOREMAN: Through it all, he is being elbowed right out of the limelight by Donald Trump.

TRUMP: These politicians give up nothing. I watched Jeb Bush yesterday. He can't even put on a tie and jacket. He is running for president.

FOREMAN: Bush suggests Trump is pandering to voters who are uncertain about the future.

BUSH: I don't think politicians should prey on those fears and that anger and that angst.

FOREMAN: But Bush ended last year leading the Republican pack, with 23 percent support, and now Donald Trump is up top, and Bush is duking it out with Scott Walker for second. Clinton still has a commanding lead in her party. But last spring, 69 percent of Democrats supported her. Now it's 56 percent.

Polls show most voters still think the parties will go with Bush and Clinton as their nominees. But that was once a seemingly done deal, and now it's just a prediction. It may or may not play out. Anderson.


COOPER: Tom, thank you. I want to dig deeper with CNN political analysts Carl Bernstein and Gloria Borger. Carl, the sense that things aren't really clicking for Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton, bad headlines, lack of enthusiasm in key wings of their parties. Is something bigger going on here? Or, I mean, is it resistance to these two families? Or you think it's just these two individuals?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think we can look to some polling data that tells us that most people in this country do not want dynastic politics. The polling is a little thin. There's not that much on it, but clearly, Donald Trump has hit a nerve by saying, look, enough of this kind of the old political classes. Let's try something new here. Let's try some straight talk, even though the straight talk might be double talk. But nonetheless it feels straight.

Bill Kristol, who almost never do he and I agree on things, I think has this exactly right in terms of dynamic. Jeb Bush has been the beneficiary however of Trump's candidacy, because it has taken all the air away from Scott Walker, from Rubio, from Cruz, all these other people. And there is one other thing that Trump has got some real leverage. Because if he were not to get the nomination, which we can expect he won't, what if he decided, well, maybe I will run as a third party candidate? It would mean the Republicans would lose. And if anything, that the Bush dynasty remembers is Ross Perot. They remember, George Bush Senior, Junior and Jeb Bush all remember Perot and blame Perot for their father's loss to Bill Clinton.

COOPER: Yes. Gloria, we saw Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush going at it on Twitter last night over women's health funding. They seem much more interested in attacking each other than in going after any of their primary opponents. Do they want to face each other in the general? Is that part of it? They canceled the dynasty argument out for each other?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, it's always easier to attack somebody in the other party than to attack somebody who is in your own party. You know, while they're facing primary opponents. But I think there is an interesting thing here about Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush. They are dynastic candidates. But it's very different kind of dynasties, Anderson. Hers is more of a boutique operation, coming from -- stemming from her husband. And Jeb Bush is really from a serious dynastic political family. And it will be more difficult I believe for him to look like change than it will for Hillary Clinton, because she is a woman. So she can be married to Bill Clinton, but just by virtue of her gender, she looks different. And elections are very often about change. And Jeb Bush looks like he just wants to be the CEO of the family business. He has got to change that dynamic for himself. And I think this upcoming debate is an opportunity for him to look like somebody who has got passion and a plan and a real reason for wanting to be president. Which he hasn't really fully presented yet.

COOPER: Carl, you wrote a book about Hillary Clinton. A fascinating book. What do you think is going wrong for her on the campaign trail?

BERNSTEIN: Almost everything, including the fact that there is not a really credible opponent that is thought could go the distance and possibly win the nomination against her.


She would probably do much better with a strong opponent who had a chance. And I don't think Bernie Sanders in the end can do that. She is not a natural politician. And the distrust factor is based on a couple of things. One, her enemies have been fabulously successful, the Clintons' enemies in landing blows about her fast and footloose times with sometimes with the truth. And the press has piled on. At the same time, it is also very evident that a lot of it is unfair. But certainly not all of it. She has done a lot of it to herself. And the foundation of her candidacy is shaky.

It will probably regain its footing because again, unless somebody else gets in here that could really have a chance, and I don't think Biden will go in the end. They're both, Bush and Hillary Clinton, they're looking to survive at this point the nominating process, and then the two parties, Bush, Clinton, Republicans, Democrats, can get back to the issues. She is very good on the issues. And the demographics favor her on the issues. She can be quite eloquent on the issues.

BORGER: You know, when you look at Jeb Bush and you look Hillary Clinton -- they're very similar in many ways. Not only from the fact that they come from these political families. But also they're both kind of wonky. They both would like to sit and do four-hour debates talking about policy. They're not the best transactional politicians in their families. I mean, we have seen the weakness of both Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail. So, you know, in a way, they come from these political families, but they're not the most natural politicians in them. And that's what we're seeing on the trail.

COOPER: Yes, Gloria, thank you. Carl Bernstein as well. Just ahead, the latest on the breaking news in Tennessee. An attack at a movie theater by a man armed with pepper spray, an axe and a gun. What witnesses saw. And what authorities are now saying.



COOPER: Some late details coming in on the Nashville theater attack. Police just released the attacker's name. We are reporting it tonight because they're still looking for information about him. Vincente David Montano, is the man who they say did this, 29 years old of Nashville, with a long history of psychiatric difficulties. They have also just released a photo. This is the pistol they say the man was carrying into the theater. In addition to pepper spray, a fake bomb and an axe. They say it's an air soft pistol, an air pistol, very realistic looking weapon, but not a deadly one. It fires BBs. Tonight the man who was carrying it, Vincente David Montano, is dead, killed in a shootout with police. As I said, police are looking for more information about him. Details now on how it all went down, beginning to end from Nashville police spokesman, Don Aaron. I spoke just before air time.


COOPER: Don, this was a very quick response by the police department. I understand there were officers close by when the call came in?

DON AARON, NASHVILLE POLICE SPOKESMAN: Yes, we had two police officers actually working a motor vehicle crash on the street in front of the movie theater parking lot. Persons from the theater ran to them as they were working the crash. The officers stopped what they were doing and immediately ran to the theater. Our response to the theater after this gun -- gunman or active shooter situation began was probably 60 to 90 seconds.

COOPER: And what did the officers see when they first entered the theater?

AARON: The first officer entered the showing of "Mad Max." And actually encountered this individual as he entered the theater. The individual raised a gun toward the officer. The officer saw the trigger being pulled. Our officer fired once at the suspect, and then backed away. Actually keeping him contained in that showing of that movie "Mad Max," until other officers could converge on the scene.

COOPER: And were there -- at that point were there still theater- goers in the theater?

AARON: There were a total of eight persons in that particular movie, including the gunman. He actually had altercations with some of those movie patrons. He doused a couple of women, significantly, with pepper spray, and used his axe to cut the shoulder of one male movie goer. Those persons were scrambling out of the theater as the police officers were arriving.

When the police officers first saw the two women, apparently his pepper spray had some type of a red chemical compound inside it. And the officer saw red on the women's faces, thinking that was perhaps blood. Well, in fact, it was the chemical spray that this guy had used to douse their faces.

COOPER: So after the first officer had engaged with the gunman and then you said he backed out, waited for other officers, then what happened?

AARON: Our S.W.A.T. team converged on the scene. The S.W.A.T. team actually entered that theater. In between the initial confrontation with the first officer, the gunman deployed more chemical spray. The S.W.A.T. team reported as they entered there was a cloud inside the theater, a significant irritant to their eyes, their noses. Ultimately they donned gas masks, continued into the theater. The gunman tried to go out through a rear door of this particular theater. When he did, there were other officers waiting. There was an engagement with him there. The Nashville Police Department fatally wounded the gunman there outside the movie theater.

COOPER: Don, I appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you.

AARON: Yes, sir.


COOPER: Just ahead, late details from a military base in Mississippi, where reports of shots fired two days in a row have set off a scare. We have new information on that right after a quick break.



COOPER: Gary Tuchman has the 360 bulletin.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, a 61-year-old man is under arrest tonight, accused of having a connection to reported gunfire at Camp Shelby military post in Mississippi. Authorities say gunfire rang out two days in a row, but according to investigators, the suspect claims his pickup truck was backfiring.

President Obama delivered a blistering rebuttal to the opponents of the Iran nuclear deal. He says lawmakers risk damaging American credibility if they vote to scuttle the agreement, which would relax sanctions against Iran in exchange for a promise not to develop nuclear weapons. Mr. Obama said critics were using the same claims that led to the war in Iraq.

And the set of the "Daily Show with Jon Stewart" will have a new home when he finishes his last show on Thursday night. It's going to the Newseum in Washington. The end of a dynasty, Anderson.

COOPER: Gary, thank you. We're going to see you again tonight at 11:00 p.m. Eastern. "Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown" starts now.