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Plane Debris Found; Obama's War Argument; Republican Debate; Nashville Movie Theater Attack. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 6, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:05] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Brianna Keilar, thank you so much.

Great to be with all of you on this Thursday, I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Let's begin with this potentially huge break in the mystery of Malaysian Air Flight 370 because now we've learned of new debris - new debris discovered possibility from inside the plane. I'm talking about window parts and seat cushions, along with aluminum washing up there on Reunion Island. At least that is what Malaysia is telling us. They say they're sure the plane - this came from a plane, although they are not quite convinced yet it is MH-370.

This surprising announcement coming just one day after Malaysia said without a shadow of a doubt that this wing part came from that Malaysia passenger jet that vanished 17 months ago. Convinced because they say a serial number and a maintenance seal on that flaperon matched that of MH-370. They also say the paint work was a direct match as well. This is the details we're learning just today.

These discoveries really invigorating the hunt for this main debris field in the vast Indian Ocean. And let me show you an animation here. This animation made by Australian researchers may be their best tool yet. What are you looking at? They're using wind and waves and ocean currents and what it shows is where floating debris, that's all of the particles there in the middle of your screen, floating debris, perhaps wing parts, seat cushions, et cetera, may have originated from.

Let's begin our coverage this afternoon with CNN correspondent Saima Mohsin, who is in France.

And so is Malaysia telling the world, you know, the where and when these possible seat cushions and windows were found?

SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, they're not. They're remaining tight-lipped about that. That is the question that we all asked immediately when they told CNN first thing this morning, that they had found this debris, confirming to us that they believe, and I'll quote, that debris like a window pane, aluminum material, and seat cushions have been found on Reunion Island. All we know, Brooke, is that this was found on Reunion Island in the same area where that flaperon, that's currently being tested here at this Ministry of Defense lab in the south of France in Belmar (ph), was found. And, of course, since the flaperon was found, all eyes have been on

that island. We've had CNN crews there and teams of local people searching to see if they could find more debris. We have been told today that nothing significant was found, but this is a new revelation from the ministry of transport in Malaysia telling us this information.

Now, of course, they are trying to remain as transparent as possible and that is why every piece of information they get they give to us. Now, they're saying this is from an aircraft, according to them. They're not saying that this is linked to MH-370. To get that answer to that, Brooke, that debris would have to now be flown from Reunion to France to this laboratory to continue to be tested. But these are all now small pieces of this puzzle that is the mystery of the disappearance of Flight MH-370 that can only add more to the story of how potentially the plane went down and why. And, remember, these are internal parts of the plane. The flaperon is external. So it's interesting how this is piecing together.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: I have so many more questions on this. Saima Mohsin, thank you so much.

Richard Quest is back with us today, our CNN aviation correspondent.

I'm looking at you with a side eyes. I was listening to Saima. Before we get into your thoughts on how all of this is happening, can we first just - I want you to spell it out for all of us, because we've now learned it's the pain, the serial number from this piece -

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: All right. I am confused because the prime minister of Malaysia, you and I were here yesterday at this time -

BALDWIN: Right. We watched the whole thing live.

QUEST: He used the word "conclusively." The - the prosecutor said there were elements recognizable by Malaysia Airlines that were specific to the plane. And now we know it's the serial number -

BALDWIN: Right.

QUEST: It's the paint and there's a maintenance seal.

BALDWIN: That was all here.

QUEST: Yes. So if there are all these things on here, why can't the prosecutor also use the word "conclusive"?

BALDWIN: "Conclusive."

QUEST: That's my problem here.

BALDWIN: OK. QUEST: That is the difficulty. Why can the prime minister - and at the

moment I'm tempting (ph) more to that way. The prime minister says "conclusive." The prosecutor - and we know what they're talking about, the paint, the maintenance seal and - now, of course, the question of course is, does the maintenance seal relate to 9MMRO (ph), which is that MH-370?

BALDWIN: What about now these other pieces of debris washing ashore?

QUEST: Oh -

BALDWIN: Because, by the way, and you covered this so, so thoroughly before, you know, when you look at the Malaysian investigation, and I know you've talked to the P.M. before.

QUEST: Yes.

[14:05:02] BALDWIN: Not always showing competence through this whole thing.

QUEST: Yes.

BALDWIN: I mean how trusting should we, should the families be that what, you know, Malaysia is saying about these cushions, et cetera, is, in fact, the plane?

QUEST: Oh, no, they can't - absolutely they can't take that to the bank at all.

BALDWIN: OK.

QUEST: In fact, they can't even take it further than - you know, I'm surprised he said what he said. I'm surprised he didn't just simply say there has been further debris which needs to be identified.

BALDWIN: Because they're getting specific.

QUEST: But he's being so specific is somewhat foolhardy in the extreme. But we are sinking, once again, into this morass that we thought we had avoided after earlier this year. And it's -- last year it was easy to be charitable, or I found it easy to be charitable. Now I'm finding it less easy to be. At the end of the day, how on earth, with this flaperon we've got such difficulties, and now we've got people saying, is it a seat cushion? Is it not a seat cushion? We've got the French involved, the Malaysians involved, the Australians involved, the Americans involved. No wonder the families are now really starting to wonder what on earth to believe?

BALDWIN: They want 100 percent certainty, that's what we're hearing for them, and thus farther they're not - they're not getting it.

Come back, because we'll be talking about this for a while. Richard Quest, thank you so much.

QUEST: Thank you. BALDWIN: Now to this, backlash erupting over President Obama's harsh words for critics of this nuclear deal with Iran. And before we get to this new criticism, I want you to listen to his stark warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congressional rejection of deal leaves any U.S. administration that is absolutely committed to preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon with one option, another war in the Middle East. I say this not to be provocative. I am stating a fact. Without this deal, Iran will be in a position, however tough our rhetoric may be, to steadily advance its capabilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The president's tough talk came during a speech at American University. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell today calling the president's comments absurd.

I want to bring in CNN political analyst and Bloomberg View columnist Josh Rogin.

Josh, great to have you on.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Great to see you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with, you know, the president is essentially threatening that there will be a war if this deal doesn't go through. When you listen to the critics, they say he is using that same sense of fear that the Bush administration used, right, to get into Iraq. And I'm wondering, is that what you see as well?

ROGIN: Yes, exactly. I think there are two things going on here. One, the president is raising the stakes against his critics. He's going after them directly. In a - in a sort of characteristic way of his recent speeches, he's being unabashed about his opinions and he's saying - he's trying to paint his critics as war mongers and nobody likes to be pained as war mongers, even war mongers.

Now, I'm not saying that any of these Republicans who are responding are favoring war. What I'm saying here is, the majority of people who have criticisms of the deal do not believe that they are promoting a path that lead us towards war.

I think the second thing that you're seeing here is that the president is pretty confident that he will be able to defend the deal. He's feeling the fact that it will be very hard for Congress to kill the deal and so he feels confident in being aggressive and even provocative, although he says he's not doing that. You know, in the end, what this really does is it puts those people in the middle, mostly Democrats, mostly Democrats who are really taking a hard look at this deal, in an impossible position. They are the ones being squeezed. The Republicans are going to be against it. The administration's going to be for it. Those Democrats want to make a decision without all of this rhetoric, without being felt like they're being put to the test of being a war monger or not. BALDWIN: And in terms of - we've heard from this Democratic pollster,

Mark Melman (ph), who's a consultant to Citizens for a Nuclear Free Iran, and he's actually saying, you know, the more people who are learning about the deal, the more they are likely to disapprove of it. I mean you talk about the people who are sort of making up their minds who are in the middle. What are you hearing?

ROGIN: Well, it's so interesting because behind the scenes the Obama administration is looking for Democrats who might be against the deal to stay silent. They're - it's actually putting pressure on Democrats to not announce their decisions. They believe that over the next coming weeks, when they have a chance to make their arguments, that Democrats will be persuaded to support to the deal.

On the other side, APAC and some of the other lobbying groups are pressuring Democrats to stay silent for the same exact reason. They think over time, as more evidence comes out, as we learn more about these ideals, as we get more testimony, more facts, that Democrats will be convinced to vote against the deal. They both can't be right. What we - what we know is that this will come to a head in September. We'll find out what Democrats are going to say. Right now they're all keeping their powder dry. They don't want to make a decision until they know which way the wind blows, until they hear from their constituents, until they see more details. And those details are going to have to come out sooner or later.

BALDWIN: Josh Rogin, thank you so much.

ROGIN: Anytime.

BALDWIN: Just ahead, Bill Cosby has refused to respond to rape allegations, but one judge is now forcing him to do so. Hear how this ruling can change all of the cases piling up against him.

[14:10:11] Also, another attack inside a movie theater. What needs to change? Should theaters, should malls, should soft targets have more security?

And the Republican candidates reveal what their pre-debate rituals all. Everything from Snapple to Motown, to setting things on fire. Yes, you heard me right. We'll talk with one Republican who battled it out in the last election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Today is the day. In just a couple of hours, all of the Republican candidates will have their chance in the national spotlight. First it's the, whatever you really want to call it, the happy hour debate, the undercard. This is the seven lowest polling candidates. And then the main event, the top 10. You could argue it is Donald Trump versus the others. Will the top candidate in all the polls get specific on policy? And while he says he will be respectful, how long will he hold his fire? Can Jeb Bush overcome his recent stumbles and not falter under the pressure of 60 seconds - 60 seconds to answer a question under those hot TV lights? Can Scott Walker show he's not out of his league? Can anyone else break out?

[14:15:22] Let's be clear, while a win tonight doesn't mean they will win the nomination, the candidates certainly can lose it. Let's begin our coverage here with CNN political reporter Sara Murray in Cleveland, where we are hours away, as I mentioned. And let's just first begin, we're hearing little tidbits about some of these candidates arriving in Cleveland. That the - that the pre-debate rituals. What are they up to?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, Donald Trump is actually going to be arriving here in about an hour. You know, he's, obviously, the guy that everyone has their eye on. Like you said, the big question is whether he's going to go on the attack tonight. Other campaigns say they don't really want to engage with him.

Another interesting campaign to watch, though, is Jeb Bush's camp. I think they're a little bit on edge going into this. He went to mass today. He's getting in a workout. He's kind of, you know, trying to relax. But the reality is, he has not been on the debate stage since 2002. He's going to be coming into this first debate a little bit nervous and they're expecting to get a lot of incoming fire. Other candidates seem to think it could be easier to take on Jeb Bush than it could be to take on Donald Trump. So the Bush camp is sort of preparing for that.

But like you mentioned, as for Scott Walker, I think the big goal for him is to get out of this without committing any unforced errors. To sort of appear presidential and not have any big flubs on stage.

As for today, there are some last minute debate prep sessions going on, but I think everyone's kind of trying to get in the right head space to be ready for their big moment.

BALDWIN: Meantime, Sara, the Democrats - the Democrats announcing their debate schedules today. What do we know?

MURRAY: Yes, the Democrats announced their roster of debates. They're going to be doing six of them. And as you can imagine, there are already some people who are not very happy about it. Martin O'Malley in particular has been complaining that there are not enough debates. He also isn't very happy with the schedule. A number of these debates come after voting in Iowa and he doesn't seem to think that will give all the candidates an equal chance to get their messages out to voters before people have to cast their ballot. So we're already starting to see backlash against the DNC for their schedule.

BALDWIN: Sara Murray in Cleveland, thank you very much.

And staying on debate here, someone who just four years ago was standing right where those candidates will this evening. I have former Republican presidential candidate Tim Pawlenty.

Governor Pawlenty, welcome.

TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good to be with you, Brooke. BALDWIN: So we have gotten a little sense - just talking to Sara - a

little sense of what the candidates are up to right now. She mentioned mass for some of these folks, the gym. We also have this from our friend at "The Independent Journal Review." Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE PATAKI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Before a debate, I say a little silent prayer and drink a diet lemon Snapple iced tea.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like to be mentally focused but relaxed. So I play solitaire.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I take my new phone, thanks to The Donald, I listen to Motown to mellow me out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, governor, what were you doing right around this time a couple years ago?

PAWLENTY: Usually before the debate we'd either go bowling or I went out for a run or both. But each candidate's got to find his or her own way to relax, clear their head and try to get ready for what is a very big event.

BALDWIN: Bowling. Interesting.

To that second debate of 2011, I know you had what some people called a campaign ending moment. Sorry to bring this back up, but I do have a point to this. You know you - in this moment you chose not to attack Romney over health care, going after Obama instead. Here it was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN: Your rival is standing right there. If it was Obamneycare on "Fox News Sunday," why is it not Obamneycare standing here with the governor right there?

PAWLENTY: It - President Obama is the person who I quoted in saying he looked to Massachusetts for designing his program. He's the one who said it's a blueprint and that he merged the two programs. And so using the term Obamneycare care was a reflection of the president's comments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: After that we know the former RNC chair, Michael Steele, had tweeted, "TPaw blinked on Obamneycare. That was his moment."

I mean here you are, all these eyes on you, thinking in a half second. Do you wish you would have handled it differently?

PAWLENTY: Yes, I think John King just wanted me to say Obamneycare, which I was happy to do and I was getting to that, but he and I got caught up in an exchange and I muffed (ph) the answer. But the real problem with my campaign after that was, you know, we had

to continue. Almost everybody else had a chance to get their month in the sun. We were out of money at that point. So being out of money, combined with that moment, was a difficult chapter in our campaign for sure.

BALDWIN: So the back and forth with John King and the muffing of the answer, I mean knowing sort of experiencing standing there, knowing what you know now, what advice would you give these candidates tonight?

PAWLENTY: Well, each candidate has a different strategy. I think other than Donald Trump, the basic question for everybody else is this, how do you wrestle a tornado? And the tornado's in the form of Donald Trump. And so for some people that means just not make a mistake and hunker down and try to hope the tornado passes and have a - some running room in the future. Other people might have the strategy of saying, look, I'm in the tail end of this polling data. Maybe I should take him on as a strategy. So we'll see how that unfolds. But if you're going to take on Donald Trump, that could boomerang. So a lot of people are going to figure basically how to manage towards or around Donald Trump. He's the central figure in this debate, obviously.

[14:20:23] BALDWIN: Yes, I mean, let's take the tornado, to use your word, a step further. I mean, obviously, they're all mindful of the candidate who's not there, being Hillary Clinton, but Donald Trump front and center, you're saying obviously everyone's strategy is different. What would you do? Would you take him on?

PAWLENTY: I think for somebody who's not - doesn't have a lot of money, may not be in the race very much longer if they don't catch fire, taking on Donald Trump is a strategy. So, again, if I was in the second or third tier -

BALDWIN: Why?

PAWLENTY: Because that's going to get the sound clip, that's going to get the play, that's going to get the attention, that's going to look tough and strong and I think that would be a good strategy for some candidates. But keep in mind, he is a very seasoned counterpuncher and attacker and, you know, entertainer and it could boomerang. So it's high risk, high reward if it works.

BALDWIN: I was also curious - we also found out that there was this phone call between Donald Trump and Bill Clinton. This was in May. This is after we officially knew Hillary Clinton was in the race and he had to have known that Donald Trump was going to get in for 2016. And we know they go way back. We know, you know, Donald Trump has donated money to the Clinton Foundation. We know they talked politics. I'm just curious, Governor Pawlenty, what do you think about that phone call?

PAWLENTY: I think, who cares? I mean -

BALDWIN: Really, who cares? PAWLENTY: Yes, the normal rules don't apply.

BALDWIN: Old news?

PAWLENTY: I think with Bill Clinton it's a little bit of a demerit in the eyes of some conservative if you're cavorting with Bill Clinton politically. So it will be fodder at the margins but it isn't going to fundamentally affect the race or the discussion. I think as it relates to Donald Trump and the stuff that he's done that's a little odd, that's very minor.

BALDWIN: OK. File this under the who cares file.

Final question -

PAWLENTY: Yes.

BALDWIN: Final question. I'm going to put you a little bit on the spot and I don't want to let you wiggle, but I'm curious, if you were asked to be vice president, looking at all of those candidates, the top 10 on the primetime stage, who would you say yes to?

PAWLENTY: Well, I think the leading candidates in the race, in my view, before the Donald Trump phenomena, were Scott Walker, Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush. I think the Trump - Trump -

BALDWIN: OK. Pick one, sir.

PAWLENTY: Yes. I don't think I'd want to pick one today. It's a long campaign and there's time for that. But don't underestimate Donald Trump's abilities here. This is somebody, if he gets a little more serious, a little more measured, could have - be a lot more serious and a lot more competitive than anybody ever imagined.

BALDWIN: So, hang on. Is what you're not saying is that you would ponder the Donald Trump being on that - that ticket?

PAWLENTY: Well, in terms of - I'm not going to be a VP, obviously. I'm just talking about who's the likely -

BALDWIN: We're - we're playing the hypothetical game.

PAWLENTY: Yes. The likely nominees, in my view, are going to be Jeb Bush, Mario Rubio and Scott Walker and I can't narrow it more tightly than that and I wouldn't rule out Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: OK. Governor Tim Pawlenty, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.

PAWLENTY: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Coming up, it is a timeless tradition, but is it a safe one? After movie theater attacks in Aurora, Colorado, three years ago, you had Lafayette, Louisiana, two weeks ago, and now Nashville, Tennessee. Is it time to rethink security when it comes to these softer targets? We'll discuss that ahead. Also, a huge development involving Bill Cosby and these allegations of

sexual assault at the Playboy mansion from decades ago. A judge now forcing Bill Cosby to testify under oath. What could he say? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:47] BALDWIN: Once again, in the headlines, a man who had a history of mental illness acting out his violent urges in a movie theater. This time no one was killed, thank goodness, although the attacker is dead. He was shot and killed by Nashville police yesterday. They've identified him as 29-year-old Vincente David Montano, a homeless man with a history of being hospitalized for mental illness. He was armed with a pellet gun, pepper spray and a hatchet.

So, it seems, here we go again. Of course we all remember Aurora, Colorado, that theater massacre, that midnight showing of "The Dark Knight" three summers ago, and the deaths of two moviegoers, plus a gunman, in Lafayette, Louisiana, just two weeks ago.

Let me bring in former NYPD Officer Bill Stanton.

And, Bill, I have to say, after this whole - this whole story broke on my show yesterday out of Nashville. And when I was out last evening, this is all anyone was talking about. And I would say the majority of people who - the majority were saying, listen, if - I love going to the movies. And if I have to walk through a metal detector to do so, fine.

BILL STANTON, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: OK. Well, here's the good news and bad news. The good news is, the numbers - we'll do math. The numbers of something like this happening to you in a movie theater or anyplace are slim to none. The bad news is, for most people, once something like that goes down and you're in that situation, most people are like sheep being led to the slaughter. They don't know how to react or what to do. They'll go to the trouble, not away from it, and that's the problem.

BALDWIN: Well, fortunately, we don't, hopefully, most of us don't have experience in sitting in a theater when somebody has a hatchet or a gun. But we keep having to report on them. It's just, at the same time, I love going to the movies. And to have to think that we have to put potentially - or the mall and we already have at some sporting events to walk through a metal detector, it - it irks me.

STANTON: Well, it's tough. Well, we can each be our own security person. For many years I was a body guard. It's called situational awareness and critical thinking.

BALDWIN: Yes. OK.

STANTON: So when I go to a movie theater, guess what, God forbid if someone yells "fire" or a person with a gun or a hatchet or pepper spray, everybody runs to the back. What most people don't know, there are two exits to the left or right of the screen. And every once in a while I'll go through those exits when I'm at a movie theater just to see where it leads.

BALDWIN: You really take the time to figure out and to walk through and see where the exit and where you would - where that would lead to.

[14:30:03] STANTON: Brooke, if something went down right here, I know where there are three exits right now. And you train yourself. Good habits are hard to break, just like bad ones. So if something went down, don't worry, I'll grab you by the wrist and we're out of Dodge. Very simple.