Return to Transcripts main page


New CNN Poll: Donald Trump Lead In Iowa; New CNN Poll: Hillary Clinton Leads In Iowa; Polls: Clinton Trails in N.H., Leads In Iowa; The Sanders Factor; Former Pres. Carter Says He has Cancer; Bernie Sanders Takes The Lead in New Hampshire; Trump Reacts To New Polling; Jeb Bush Attacks Hillary On Iraq; Jeb Bush Gamble On Iraq; Museum Heist Mystery; 17 Killed, 300-Injured in China. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired August 12, 2015 - 21:00   ET




ANDERSON COOPER, AC 360 HOST: Good evening. 9:00 P.M. here on the east coast and our first look at who voters in Iowa say they are supporting. The first CNN/ORC polling on the race there and another sign that for the moment Donald Trump continues to defy political gravity.

New Iowa results for Hillary Clinton as well a new polling for New Hampshire that may signal for her there as well.

CNN Chief Correspondent John King has it all by the numbers. John let's start. For the new polling in Iowa, Donald Trump not seeing the shift a lot pandits predicted.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, quite the contrary. A lot of people thought the controversial debate might hurt him with republican voters, maybe he said he might run as a third party candidate, showdown with Megyn Kelly -- 22 percent not only the elite in Iowa but the healthy elite. 14 percent for Ben Carson, second. If you're worried in Iowa, you're Scott Walker, 9 percent. He was leading before the debate now he's in third place in our poll.

Look at Jeb Bush falling down here to 5 percent and they will say in the Bush campaign, "We never though we're going to win Iowa." Still a trouble side for him.

A big winner out of the debate is Carly Fiorina up to fifth place now in Iowa. She was nowhere before the debate, Anderson. Ted Cruz also moving up a little bit in Iowa.

If you move this over here and you look, pre-debate, post-debate, again, Scott Walker was on top, now he's down here in third place. Jeb Bush was third, now down here at the middle of the PAC. Carson moves from fourth to second. And again, the big winner Carly Fiorina.

So if you look pre-debate and post-debate just like in 2012 a shake up in the field but Donald Trump not moving away many pandits thought. Why? He's getting 27 percent support from Iowa. Man, if there's one trouble sign in our poll, it's this. Only 15 percent of Iowa Republican women support Donald Trump. So a bit of a warning sign there but he's still on top by a big number.

COOPER: And what is it that they're saying that they like about Donald Trump in Iowa?

KING: They like him on the issues and they like him because he's a disruptive force in politics. Here's the biggest factor right here. Which Republican candidate most change Washington, shake things up here? 35 percent -- 35 point-gap over the next Republican for Donald Trump on who would be best in changing Washington.

Also a huge lead on who would be best on who would be best on the economy who would be best on immigration. These are huge issues for Republican voters. And despite so many polls showing he would lose to Hillary Clinton They still think in Iowa among Republicans that he's the most electable.

The Tea Party very important to debate's Donald Trump -- leads him on Tea Party voters, Ben Carson second. This is a huge trouble sign for Cruz and Walker. Yes, they're third and fourth. These two very much need the Tea Party to succeed in Iowa, right now, Donald Trump blocking their path.

COOPER: John, what is the race look for Democrats in Iowa?

KING: Anderson, Hillary Clinton loves Iowa even though that was the state of her disappointment in 2008. Look at these brand new numbers especially given our conversation last time about New Hampshire. In Iowa, 50 percent for Hillary Clinton, 31 percent for Bernie Sanders. Iowa Democrats seems to be sending Joe Biden a message. He's spending the summer asking himself, "Should I get in late?" No clamoring for Joe Biden.

But this is a strong number for Hillary Clinton, 50 percent to 31 percent over Sanders, especially given -- remember, we just talked about it last night Bernie Sanders is plus seven in the State of New Hampshire.

[21:05:04] The senator of Vermont beating Clinton for the first time in New Hampshire So this will be a welcome number in the Clinton Campaign to see her winning in Iowa. Why is she winning? On the big issues, the voters are with Hillary Clinton. By 11 points they favor her in the economy over Bernie Sanders, by 36 points, although Bernie Sanders for single parent health care. Liberals kind of like that. In Iowa, they're saying we like Hillary Clinton on health care. A huge gap in foreign policy. She wins on energy policy as well.

And, she has a gender gap. She runs about even on Bernie Sanders among men. But look at this, nearly six in 10, Iowa Democratic women are voting for Hillary Clinton. The gender gap, a huge factor in her lead in Iowa at the moment moment, Anderson.

COOPER: And do the polls point any trouble spots for Hillary Clinton in Iowa? KING: There are some trouble spots for Hillary and know the similar of what we see everywhere. Only 28 percent -- remember this is a poll of Iowa Democrats. Only 28 percent find her honest and trustworthy. That means 70 percent don't. As the e-mail investigation goes on the Justice Department in Capitol Hill, that's a number to keep an eye on.

And only 40 percent -- this is the empathy question -- which politician most understands the problem facing people like you? 40 percent back Hillary Clinton, that's about even with Bernie Sanders. So if there are weaknesses for Hillary Clinton, it's on trust and empathy, Anderson.

COOPER: And, John, thanks very much. Quite note, Jeb Bush has been speaking tonight at a townhall in North Las Vegas, Nevada. We'll be listening to see if he makes news there. We'll of course bring it to you if he does. We'll play some of that in the last hour.

In the meantime, let's dig deeper to what those poll numbers are saying. Tonight, Dana Bash who talked today with rising contender John Kasich joins us, so as the senior political analyst David Gerger and Boston Globe political reporter, James Pindell.

David, you kind of let out a gasp when you just heard Hillary Clinton's trustworthy number there.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, if among Democrats in Iowa, you know, down to 20s in terms of trust...

COOPER: That's a start of worrying decline.

GERGEN:... that is a slashed number. Yeah. And I -- it may reflect some of things the story is going on about her e-mail server and all the rest. But those are very troublesome numbers, Anderson.

COOPER: Is it hard to turn those around? Something like trustworthiness, is that fundamental?

GERGEN: That's an interesting question. I do think it's hard to turn that around. You better earn people's trust. You can't do it in a single speech. It's going to come over time. But if you're worrying in your campaign -- I mean she have, I say, all the substantive background. She's -- everybody know her tenure. She had all the name I.D. but she's got to work on being transparent and like every sort of the way like working with the press, taking down the barriers of the press and all the rest.

But it's a big number. I do think the bigger story -- the big story out of this polls today is at American voters -- angry voters around the march.

COOPER: Right.

GERGEN: It's very early in the process. But who is surging in both parties now? They're all the antiestablishment candidates. It's Trump, it's Carson, it's Fiorina...

COOPER: Right.

GERGEN: ... and it's Bernie Sanders. The first three not -- those Republicans never held public office.


GERGEN: No need for the most important did public office in the land.


GERGEN: Dana, I mean you're in New Hampshire. This poll showing she's trailing Bernie Sanders. It's to stay where she and Former President Bill Clinton, I mean they go back nearly 25 years ago, they've got big organization there. How big a deal are the new numbers for her in New Hampshire?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're exactly right. This is where Bill Clinton became the comeback kid by overcoming all of his problems with stories about his affairs and so forth. And this is what the beginning of the beginning for him in the nomination process in '92.

The answer to your question is that -- two things I think for Bernie Sanders in New Hampshire. One is he's almost a local. He's from Vermont so there's that connection there culturally and otherwise but also because historically people in New Hampshire whether they're Democrats, Republicans, Independents, they like to show other states and the media, the establishments that they're not going to be told who to pick. And I think that's a big part of what's going on here.

You know, certainly Hillary Clinton did well here in 2008 but it is a different time, it is a different era, and he is appealing to not just maybe Democrats but maybe because in New Hampshire you don't have to have party registrations. You could -- maybe some independent Republicans could go and vote for Bernie Sanders...

COOPER: Right.

BASH: ... in the Democratic primary. He has that appeal.

COOPER: James, I want to bring you in. You cover New Hampshire very, very close and I know you take issue in this latest New Hampshire poll but that said, other surveys have showed Bernie Sanders closing in on Hillary Clinton there. So whether or not you buy this latest CNN/ORC Poll, what do you think he's doing right in New Hampshire? What do you see...

JAMES PINDELL, BOSTON GLOBE POLITICAL REPORTER: The problem with this -- I don't have any problem with the CNN poll in Iowa but do have a problem with this which is very much of an outlier. This is the first poll showing him winning -- show him winning by seven -- the most credible poll. Those reasons a couple of days ago should have downed by six. There's only New Hampshire tonight who believes that Bernie Sanders is winning but this poll has changed the conversations, have a lot of people ask the question, "Well, what if and what is exactly going on here?" [21:10:01] I was with Hillary Clinton yesterday. I've been with Bernie Sanders a lot on the ground in New Hampshire and the mood is just different.

COOPER: How is that?

PINDELL: With Hillary Clinton -- well, with Hillary Clinton, you get a sense that people think they're going to see the next president of the United States. There's more infrastructure clear (ph0 the obviously their secret service involved. But I mean there's more of a campaign infrastructure, how people get invited. With Bernie Sanders, it's a protest rally. People are having fun. But the point of the campaign event is the campaign event it's not to see the particular candidate.

And I think Bernie Sanders accepts the premise. He accepts the premise that he is a representation of a lot of things. It's not about him. It's about not being for Hillary. It's about finally steaming up with the person who is a socialist or progressive values. There's a different mood there.

And as we head into the fall and the campaign gets more serious, Bernie Sanders is going to have to somehow flip the conversation to say, "No, I actually can be the nominee. This is how this would work."

COOPER: That's interesting. David, that's a hard thing to do.

GERGEN: It is a hard thing to do. I want to say though that I'm not sure. I'm sure that being -- living next door does help him. But we shouldn't put too much on that. After all, in Iowa is down now -- the Governor Walker and he's only a Honda ride away -- holly ride away from the voters over there. So...


GERGEN: ... you know, he's having a little trouble with it. I though the other thing that was interesting coming out of this New Hampshire poll and I'm not sure how reliable poll it is but none the less, the number -- the plurality of people thought Joe Biden will get into this and were inviting him because -- yeah. That is also a warning sign about the enthusiasm level. I mean how many Clinton's issue the last time around? How much country rate in 2008? How does she generate enthusiasm? Her husband had a natural gift for that. It's more of a struggle for her.

COOPER: And I mean, Dana, to the earlier point, if people believe Bernie Sanders, you know, can't make it to the White House but if they see him as sort of a protest candidate, maybe that's an encouraging factor for Joe Biden.

BASH: Absolutely. No question because, you know, if joe Biden is seriously looking at this as we have every reason to believe he is, he's looking at it sayong "Well, wait a minute if Hillary Clinton is weak enough to allow all of these potential Democratic voters to get all excited about somebody who is not hillary Clinton, what about me? However, you know, Joe Biden is beloved among Democrats and even Republicans. I'm not sure he will fly as the alternative candidate. He is more establishment. He's different from Hillary Clinton but similar and that he's not going to be the person who's going to get the grassroots going as Bernie Sanders do...


BASH: ... Bernie Sanders who stood up...

PINDELL: And, you know...

BASH: ... in the Senate and opposed a lot of their administration's nominees on principle.

PINDELL: On Dana's point there, Anderson, one thing I've done really interesting in that Iowa poll -- your poll -- the CNN poll, was that it found that if Joe Biden did not get into the contest, a lot of his support you would think it would be into Hillary's support, it would automatically go to Bernie Sanders. No. If Joe Biden's not on the race, a lot of that support goes to Hillary Clinton and it's actually gross.

COOPER: Interesting. James, it's great to have you in the program. David Gergen, Dana Bash as well.

Coming up next, more on the people behind the Bernie Sanders surge -- stadium sized crowds of them. We'll look at what they see in this unconventional candidate.

And later Dr. Sanjay Gupta on former President Jimmy Carter's revelation today that he has cancer and that it spread.



COOPER: We talked at the top of the broadcast about new polling and what we could glean about the state of the race from it. People though for the most part don't flock to a candidate because he or she is getting the good numbers. It's the other way around. The numbers reflect the fact that something about that candidate is resonating with voters.

It was certainly true for Barack Obama. It's true now for Donald Trump, at least part of the Republicans are concerned. And on the Democratic side, well, it's true for Senator Bernie Sanders. He's filling stadiums in anywhere. He's like a rockstar even though he's old enough to be Mick Jagger's slightly older brother. Martin Savidge reports.


MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Which candidate draws a bigger crowd, Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, or Donald Trump? The answer, Bernie Sanders by far. Saturday in Seattle, the Democratic presidential hopeful drew 15,000 people. The next day in Portland, an estimated 28,000. That's the biggest crowd for any candidate so far in the 2016 race. And the senator from Vermont has been gaining momentum.

A favorite supporter rallying cry is "Feel the Bern".

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This campaign is sending a message to the billionaire class, yes, we have the guts to take you on.

SAVIDGE: On the surface, the 70-year old may not look like a political fire brand, he has a history of standing out and standing up for what he believes in. He calls himself a Democratic socialist and he's the longest serving independent member of Congress in U.S. history.

BASH: Bernie Sanders is really one of the most interesting characters in the Senate because he's one of only two independents. Historically, he's called himself, a socialist and yet he is been able to work across the aisle in recent years with Republicans to solve some really major problems.

SAVIDGE: Born in Brooklyn to Jewish parents, he went to James Madison High School. He became a socialist and active in the civil rights movement. In Vermont, he lost his first runs at political office, then, was elected mayor of Burlington by 10 votes. Next, came the U.S. Congress, but it was in the Senate where he became nationally known especially for his filibuster against extending Bush Air Tax Cuts.

In April, Sanders decided, what's been good for Vermont would be good for the nation.

SANDERS: I am proud to announce my candidacy for president of the United States of America.

SAVIDGE: The same issues that have motivated him in the past are now campaign themes of the present -- the gap between rich and poor, education, immigration, and racial inequality in the justice system.

GARRISON NELSON, UNIV. OF VERMONT, PROFESSOR OF POLITICS: Bernie has not tailoring his speeches to the agenda. The agenda has caught up with Bernie Sanders.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Thank you very much.


SAVIDGE: The senator from Vermont maybe a long shot to win it all. The fans say he brings something to the Democratic ticket Hillary Clinton so far has not -- excitement.

[21:20:08] Martin Savidge, CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: A lot of excitement. Joining me now is Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver. Jeff, it's good to have you on. Thank you very much.


COOPER: So ahead of Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire according to this latest CNN/ORC Poll, quite a contrast from just five months ago when Sanders had I think 8 percent of likely Democratic voters in the state. What do you think is happening? What do you hearing from the crowds from the people who are coming out to see your candidate?

WEAVER: Look, Anderson, if I had told you four months ago that Bernie Sanders will be ahead in New Hampshire you would have laughed, right? This weekend, we had 17,000 people combined the three different rallies on the west coast. What's happening is people are responding to Bernie's message. They can't afford the high cost of college education, they see the growing gap between the rich and the poor, they see stagnant wages, and Bernie Sanders speaks to what they feel in their daily lives and that's what's happening in this campaign. People are responding to that.

COOPER: One of our earlier guests, the reporter from New Hampshire was saying that many people sort of see that as a protest rally that they don't necessarily think -- and you look at the poll numbers they also show that while people support Sanders, they still think that Clinton will ultimately secure the nomination. How big of a problem is that for Sanders?

WEAVER: Look, if we're going to keep talking about these issues that are important to people, you know, polls will go up and down. You know hundreds of thousands of people have sent money to Bernie Sanders. They are doing it because they're protesting. They're doing that because they want real change in United States and he embodies that and that's what their responding to.

So people from the beginning of this campaign have found reasons to say why he can't win, while he'll never breakthrough. He's cut Hillary Clinton's leading half in Iowa. He's ahead now in New Hampshire. We've seen polls out of places. Oregon is four points back. So this is the campaign on the move because it's a campaign about issues.

COOPER: So you don't feel that you have to kind of address that directly that idea that he won't be able to actually get to the White House. You feel that just by focusing on the same issues he's been focusing on, people will start to come around?

WEAVER: Well, they certainly will come around. And an issue to that, I would point out, there's been a number of polls done some by Quinnipiac and some battle ground states that show that he does as well or in some cases better than Secretary Clinton against Republicans.

So we're confident that once he has the nomination that he will be able to secure the White House. And the excitement that he is bringing to this campaign is going to help elect Democrats up and down the ballot.

COOPER: There are others who have been comparing your candidate in some ways to Donald Trump. Both are saying they're kind of non- establishment candidates. Obviously Senator Sanders has had a long time in Washington. Others compare them Howard Dean and the kind of enthusiasm that Dean once brought to it. What do you make on both those comparisons?

WEAVER: Well, I think they're flawed. I worked with Bernie Sanders up and on for 30 years. And people see a man of conviction who was talking about the real economic hurt that they are feeling and they are responding to him, Anderson. That's what's happening here.

So he's not -- it's not -- he's not a reality show star. This is the real deal who speaking to the hurt that American families are feeling.

COOPER: What do you make of rumblings that Vice President Biden might enter the race? How concern would your campaign be that Biden would take votes away from Sanders?

WEAVER: Well, it's not a question of who's taking votes away from whom. The voters will decide which candidate they feel is best able to address the issues that they're concerned about and we're pretty confident that that's going to be Bernie Sanders regardless of who's on the race.

COOPER: But you -- I mean, you got to say -- I mean it would obviously be more competition?

WEAVER: Well, I'd -- obviously, we changed the dynamics of the race. I'm not sure I would describe it in that way.

COOPER: All right. Jeff Weaver, great to have you. Thank you very much.

WEAVER: OK. Thanks. Bye, Anderson.

COOPER: Coming up -- yeah -- Donald Trump reacting to the new polling. The tone of his conversation with Jake Tapper might surprise you.



COOPER: For weeks now, political pandits have been marveling Donald Trump's enjoying appeal to Republican voters and how nothing he says or does can dense his lead in the polls. Just moment after the latest CNN polling came out, the "The Lead with Jake Tapper" asked him about it. Here's a portion of that conversation.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: If I may, last month in any major polls in Iowa you were in second place now you're in first place. It doesn't seem to matter who you offend in the establishment. You rise in the polls. Are you at all surprised?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm not really to offend people, Jake. That seems to be that every once in a while that will happen but I think I was, you know, mistreated a little bit but that's OK and, you know, I'm really honored. I'm honored by your call. And 22 percent that's a big number. It's a really big number. And so, it's a great honor. Thank you.

TAPPER: Not even a month ago, Governor Walker was leading in Iowa, now he's in third place behind you and behind Dr. Ben Carson. Why do you think her slipped and why do you think Carson's rising?

TRUMP: Well, you know, if we look at Wisconsin, they're having some trouble there, pretty big deficits. I think $2.2 billion and that's a lot different than the billion dollars that they're supposed to make. So that hurts obviously and people are seeing the numbers. And there's been a lot of divisiveness, a lot of dissension and it has not been an easy journey over there. It's a great state. I love the state but it has not been an easy journey.

So maybe people see that and his numbers have certainly been affected because you're right about a month ago in a couple of polls I was actually number two and I think I was number three and now I'm number one by quite a margin. So I'm very honored by that.

TAPPER: We're told that you told the Chicago's and Times that you would strongly consider a woman as your running mate should you get the nomination. Is there any particular woman or women in your short list?

TRUMP: They asked me the question and it was a terrific reporter -- somebody (inaudible) a lot of respect for. And I said very openly that I would be very, very delighted if they were the right person but it would be a great honor to have a woman as a running mate. So if we had the right person, I would certainly consider that. It's obviously too soon to think about it. They immediately want to know, who, who. But I would certainly think about that and I would certainly consider it.

TAPPER: This week the Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton responded to news of your campaign. Take a listen.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's all entertainment, you know. I mean I think he's having the time of his life, you know, being up on that stage, saying whatever he wants to say, getting people excited both for and against him.

I didn't know him that well. I mean I knew him. I knew him and I happened to be planning in Florida and I thought it would be fun to go to his wedding because it's always entertaining.

[21:30:01 Now that he's running for president, it's a little more troubling.

TAPPER: It's a little more troubling. What's your reaction, sir? TRUMP: Well, she is right about one thing. I am enjoying it. I was in -- last night as you probably heard -- in fact you put it all over your show. I was in Michigan and it was an amazing crowd with 3,000 people and they turned away a tremendous number of people because the place just couldn't hold it anymore. And it was an absolutely fabulous evening. And it was, you know, standing ovations all over the place.

I talked about the wall, I talked about China with the devaluation of their currency which they did yesterday which is shocking that they can get away with this. What they're doing to us is unbelievable with the devaluation. They're just taking the money right at our pocket and we have people don't know what they do. We talked about the Iran deal and how pathetic it is, how bad it is. And we had a good time talking about horrible subjects to be honest with you. It was a, you know, there's not a lot of good news for the United States but we can turn it around.

TAPPER: Any response to Hillary Clinton saying that you've gone from entertaining to troubling?

TRUMP: Well, I think the poll numbers sort of indicated that maybe it's troubling for her. I think that I would be her, you know, worst nightmare in a sense. And I think nobody's been tougher on Hillary. I'm the one that said long time ago, to you, as a matter of fact, long before this is all come up with the FBI over the last few days that what she did is a criminal act. I mean there's no question about the fact that it's a criminal act.

You look at general Petraeus, they destroyed his life over something much less, you know, the documents were much less important, much less high level. I mean what she did is a real problem for her. I don't know frankly that she'll be able to run because it just looks to me that the whole e-mail thing is a very criminal situation and it could cause problems for years to come.

TAPPER: Mr. Trump, I'm being told that you have to go. I appreciate your calling in and taking my questions as always, sir. Thank you.

TRUMP: Well, thank you very much, Jake.


COOPER: Well, up next, Jeb Bush has gambled. He brings up Iraq that takes aim at Hillary Clinton.



COOPER: But I'll talk today about Jeb Bush's attack last night to Hillary Clinton. Governor Bush spoke at the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. He brought up Iraq, it's obviously touchy subject that draws attention to his brother, former president George W. Bush, who led the U.S. to war there. Mr. Bush formed the question of the war three months ago and now he's blaming Mrs. Clinton and President Obama for the rise of Isis in Iraq. Listen.


JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No leader and policymaker involved will claim to have gotten everything right in the region, Iraq especially. Yet, in a long experience that includes failures of intelligence and military set backs, one moment stands out in memory as the turning point we had all been waiting for. And that was the surge.

Who can argue that American, our friends are safer today than in 2009 when the president and Secretary Clinton, the story team of rivals, took office. So eager to be history makers, they failed to be the peacemakers. It was a case of blind haze to get out and to call the tragic consequences somebody else's problem.

Rushing away from danger can be every bit as unwise as rushing into danger. And the cost have been grievous.


COOPER: No, direct response yet from Mrs. Clinton. How ever her Reuter (ph) Response Operation did release a statement. It reads, "If Jeb Bush wants to spread blame for the situation in Middle East, he doesn't need to look much farther than the next family reunion."

I want to talk about it with Fareed Zakaria, host of GPS here in CNN and our world affairs analyst. And on the phone Republican consultant Ari Fleischer, a former press secretary for President George W. Bush.

Fareed, first of all, what did you think of what Jeb Bush had to say about Iran?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think if you look at the speech on the whole, it was disappointing. Look, Jeb Bush is a very intelligent man. I've done -- I've met him, I've spoken to him. When you hear him on something like education; immigration, he's smart, he's passionate.

Foreign policy, interestingly given who his father was is -- this seems to be a bit of a week spot. He had trouble answering that question about Iraq when he was asked five times. In the debates it's a few -- overshadowed by the cun will of Donald Trump was the fact that Jeb Bush was again somewhat weak on his foreign policy answers.

In that context, you would have thought that this would be the opportunity to layout a kind of big vision for foreign policy, something that was grand, something that really spoke to his world view. And instead, it was scattered, you know, a bunch of thought shots, you know, against the Iran deal and this very curious take on Iraq in which history begins into 2007 with the success of the surge not looking at the...

COOPER: Yeah. Yeah.

ZAKARIA: ... prior five years and the actual invasion of Iraq.

COOPER: Yeah. Ari, I mean is there a danger for Jeb Bush in trying to turn something which certainly his critics see as a major liability, his connection to his brother's policies in Iraq and try to turn that to an attack on Hillary Clinton?

ARI FLEISCHER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Not in the Republican primary. There's zero danger. You know, in the Republican primary, you can never be too critical of Hillary Clinton, no matter what your last name is. It's -- half of the speech was a very tradition Republican speech fitting at the Reagan Library about peace and strength. And how achieve peace or strength by doing what doing actually what many of the military say what need to be done in order to do what President Obama said which was to be great and ultimately destroyed ISIS because we're never be going to be great or destroy ISIS the way things are going right now.

So in that sense, I thought the speech had all the right policy notes. But taking on at Hillary -- remember, Jeb is running in a Republican primary. Hillary is not popular. And Hillary is secretary of state, does have a lot of explaining to do, a lot of answers to give, and she has to be held accountable for what happened on her watch.

COOPER: And yet, Fareed, he does run risk of just reminding voters about his connection not only to his brother but also to his father previously.

ZAKARIA: Yeah. It's an outstretch because if you really want to look at what the fatal mistake, you know, was in terms of the creation of ISIS, he says the fatal mistake was Obama withdrawing forces --down to zero.

Well, I mean I think a lot of people would say that the fatal mistake was invading Iraq. Another one you might say is a fatal mistake was then handling over fire to these pro-Iranian Shiite parties that turned out to have a much closer relationship with Iran than with the United States.

[21:40:05] You know, you could -- you'd have to get a long way to get to the Obama withdrawal. And by the way, that was an withdrawal that was mandated by a policy George W. Bush's son. Bush before he left office said, "All American troops -- this is signed agreement with the Iraqi government, all American troops will be out by 2011."

Again, it was an odd thing to put your stakes on it. Ari is right, he does talk about peace through strength with regard to ISIS, but frankly, there's a lot of boiler plate. You know, there's an internal contradiction that he criticizes Obama's half measures and Obama is guilty of half measures no question. But, Anderson, but of course we don't want to combat troops or any American boots on the ground.

Well, so if you're against half measures and you're against whole measures, what are you in favor of? COOPER: Ari, in your experience, I'm wondering how -- when you were working with President George W. Bush, how did he navigate those waters dealing with his father's policy, his father's legacy, and yet making sure voters knew that he was his own man when it came to Iraq and other issues?

FLEISCHER: Yeah. Great question, Anderson. I remember Fareed when getting asked as the Bush spokesman in 1999 and 2000 during the presidential run what was different between George W. Bush and his father. And frankly all those questions start to fade as the president and the governor just started to take positions, as he gave speeches, as he spoke about his views on taxes, his views on energy, his views on foreign policy, his inevitable and natural course of the campaign.

But I do get a kick out of the fact that anytime it's foreign policy and particularly Iraq, everything in the media runs to equate Jeb Bush to George W. Bush. You know, when it comes to ethics, when it comes to personal behavior, people equating Hillary with Bill, even though they have the same last name.

You know, I think it's a very unfair one way treatment of Jeb when everybody knows he's his own person, he'll make his own judgments.

COOPER: Ari, how much do you think it hurts Jeb bush's argument when he says he is his own man when it comes to foreign policy when a large portion of his foreign policy team did also work for his brother?

FLEISCHER: Well, a large portion of George W. Bush is (inaudible) came from his father, they came from Gerald Ford, they came from other places. You know, in the world of politics, there's only few predecessors. It's inevitable that you want to have people who come from your predecessors.

COOPER: Ari, pleasure. Good to have you, Fareed Zakaria. Thank you both.

Well, coming up, former president Jimmy Carter says he has cancer, his father, brother, and two sisters all died of an especially aggressive variety of the cancer -- pancreatic cancer. I'm going to speak to Dr. Sanjay Gupta about what we now know about the 90-year old former president's condition, next.



COOPER: Sad news tonight. Former President Jimmy Carter has cancer. That was discovered when he had a small mass removed from his liver. He says that it has spread to other parts of his body. The former president is 90-years old. His family has a history of pancreatic cancer but we're not sure whether this cancer -- where this cancer, I should say, originated. President Obama released a statement wishing the former president a fast and full recovery. I spoke with him this evening.

Our chief medical correspondent joins me with more.

Sanjay, there's obviously a lot we don't know about the diagnosis but what is this mean for the former president?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, some of the details I think are going to help make that picture a little bit clearer. You know, clearly this is a cancer -- it sounds that it either in or around the liver. Around the liver, you have the gull bladder, you also have the pancreas. Cancer in any of these areas is obviously a pretty significant thing.

And what we hear today is that he had this operation 10 days ago back in August 3rd, and now they're saying that in addition to that particular mass, there's evidence that this cancer has spread beyond that area of the body as well. So it sounds that he's going to get therapy which can come in the form of chemotherapy most likely. But once they sort of give a better idea of exactly how big this cancer is, what it is exactly, how far it spread, so you can have a better idea.

But, Anderson, to your point, for a younger person, certainly this is a significant cancer. The therapy is pretty significant. He's 90 years old. It's going to be tougher for him to obviously endure that.

COOPER: Yeah. I mean obviously, age is a major factor here.

GUPTA: No question. I mean, you know, age is a factor for a lot of reasons. One, just the higher body actually tolerates the cancer but also tolerates the therapy. Having said that, you know, there are certain cancers, Anderson, which are really cancers of people who are elderly aged. You know, they just develop in -- as they get older.

So, most of the data that we have is on people who are older. But again, 90-years old, it's going to be a significant toll on him no matter how you look at it.

COOPER: His parents, all the siblings have died of pancreatic cancer. Is that something that he would have been monitored for because of that family history?

GUPTA: Very likely. You7 know, it's a pretty remarkable story, Anderson. You may know but yeah as you mentioned his father and every one of his siblings died of pancreatic cancer. His mother developed pancreatic cancer as well. It's unclear if she died of that or not but it's a really, really significant family history.

And what doctors will typically do and what President Carter had done we understand is he did get monitored through scans for some time -- CT scans to look to see. Even if you don't have any symptoms at all, might you be developing some signs of an early cancer.

Several years ago, it sounds that he stopped doing those scans as he got older in age and he was just doing blood test. What likely happened a couple of months is one of those blood tests came back and showed something abnormal and that's what sort of prompted this most recent operation 10 days ago. COOPER: We certainly wish him the best. Sanjay, thank you.

GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.

COOPER: Up next tonight, it is the greatest art heist in history and enduring mystery -- $500 million worth of masterpiece is stolen from a Boston museum 25 years ago. Now, investigators are hoping newly released video is going to help them solve the case.



COOPER: A new piece of the puzzle. A 25 year old museum mystery in Boston, one of the biggest art heist in history with a $500 million price tag. The question is could a grainy video help investigators finally crack the case. Randi Kaye reports.


RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: On this never before seen video, a man who may have pulled off the biggest art heist in history. Take a good look. The grainy video is from March 17th, 1990 the night before two men broke into Boston's Isabella Gardner Museum. Those men made of with 13 works of art valued at $500 million.

Rick Abath was one of the guards on duty that night. He was just 23 years old then. We spoke to him back in February 2013 -- his only television interview. He admitted he left the thieves in the museum on the night of the heist.

RICK ABATH, FORMER NIGHT WATCHMAN: (inaudible) and I just kind of leaned over and they said, "Come." I said, "Yeah?" And they said, "Boston Police we got a report of disturbance on the premises." So buzzed them into the dead room...

KAYE: Rick Abath has always maintained he had nothing to do with the theft. But this newly released video shows a guard resembling Abath just 24 hours before it. At the start of the tape, the unidentified man is seen backing up his car to the museum side entrance. After the first guard leaves to do his security rounds, the man outside approaches the museum. The guard at the desk presses the doors buzzer, but the man doesn't enter but the man doesn't enter instead he returns to his car and turns on the parking lights.

[21:55:05] After, he heads back to the museum and is once again buzzed inside. This time, he does enter. Through the same door, the thieves would enter through the very next night. The man appears to go to through some paperwork at the guard desk and then disappears for about three minutes inside the museum out of view of this particular camera.

It's unclear what he was doing or why he was there in the middle of the night. Investigators want to know if this video was some sort of dry run for the real thing. They say the car seen in the video even matches the general description of the vehicle seen parked outside the museum the night of the theft. The FBI released the tape can help identify the mystery man.

Could this man have anything to do with the break-in on the night of the heist? And why did the museum security guard let strangers into the museum two nights in a row. Rick Abath who says he was handcuffed during the heist has never been charged in connection with the crime but he's never been officially cleared either.

ABATH: Once I sat, you know, sat down with the FBI, I think the first thing I said was what do you want to know because I knew, I mean I was like the man who opened the door. They're obviously going to be looking at me.

KAYE: Our calls to Abath this week were not returned. On the night of the theft, the panic button at the desk was never activated allowing the thieves to take their time spending an hour and a half in the museum collecting the artwork. That was 25 years ago. And despite a $5 million reward the artwork has ver been returned.


COOPER: Randi Kaye joins me now. Has anyone come forward since this video has been released?

KAYE: I did speak with an attorney from Quinsy, Massachusetts tonight, Anderson. And he told me that he has a client who does recognize the man in the video. His client was in the antiques business and he says that this man was also in the antiques business. He says that he's not going to give his clients name because his client's apparently afraid that he's going to be killed if his name gets out there. But he did say that this man in the video was an associate of a man named Myles Connor.

Myles Connor was a notorious art thief in Boston. He actually stole a Rembrandt back in the 1975 in Boston Museum of Fine Arts. So the man in the video is alive. His client says. And he's given his name and his address to federal investigators.

COOPER: They have?

KAYE: So they're going to be looking into it.

COOPER: And have authorities identified any suspect? They've -- over the years they've kind of named some people, haven't they?

KAYE: They have named some people. And just a couple of years ago, you may recall, they came out and they said, "We know who did this."

COOPER: Right.

KAYE: They did not give the actual names but they said they were members of a criminal organization but the FBI did tell us last year that the stolen Manet from this museum was seen in the apartment of a man who resembles one of the sketches that the police made after the heist. That man is now dead. The Manet was never recovered and the FBI also tells us that nobody dead or alive though has ever been ruled out as a suspect including all of those museum employees. None of them have ever been cleared.

COOPER: And where there other security cameras elsewhere in the museum?

KAYE: There were and unfortunately we don't pick up on this one that was released where this guy went for those three minutes that he disappeared in the vide.

COOPER: Right.

KAYE: But there were other security cameras in the last stop that these thieves made that night when they were in there for 81 minutes. They spent all the time going through all the floors taking, you know, picking which pieces of art they wanted.

COOPER: Right, because they were very specific in what they pick.

KAYE: Very specific. And they made some really odd choices as well.

COOPER: Right.

KAYE: But they were specific. And the very last stop they made, Anderson, was they stopped at the security room as they called it. They took all the security camera videos. So they must have known that they're being picked up on the tape.

COOPER: Right.

KAYE: But either they missed this one or maybe it's not related at all. And investigators are just hoping that it is.

COOPER: Right.

KAYE: But we really don't know. But they did take all of that video.

COOPER: Wow. Very incredible. I mean it's incredible that it's still all these years later. It's still missing.

KAYE: 25 years with the $5 million reward.


KAYE: And they think at some point some of the art must have been spotted, they think it might, you know, still be in the New England in the Atlantic Area, but they just haven't been able to get it.

COOPER: Well, like that. You can't just resell it.

KAYE: Right. And that's all they really want. I mean the statutes of limitations has ran out on whoever did this. All they want is that artwork back. 13 pieces of art.

COOPER: Randi Kaye, thank you very much. It's an amazing museum. Still is.

Before we go, we want to quickly bring you up to a date on the story that will likely still be developing into the night.


UNIDENTIFED MALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)


COOPER: That massive explosion in China's fourth largest city Tianjin. The death toll now stands a at 17 upwards were 300 people have been hurt in and around this massive fireball. The pictures are just incredible. The blast happened at a warehouse in the fourth city of some 15 million people. It's unclear right now what caused the blast. Martial Law is in effect in the area. Stay tuned to CNN throughout the night for more on that.

[22:00:00] That does it for us. We'll see you again one hour from now at 11:00 P.M. Eastern another edition of 360. "CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON" starts now.

DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT HOST: Trump on top on a brand new poll. This is "CNN TONIGHT". I'm Don Lemon.