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What Will President Obama Do Post-White House?; James Harrison Sends Back "Participation Trophies" Awarded To His Son. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired August 17, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:30:00] CHRISTINE ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So the question becomes, is this systemic or abuse or just a single issue. "The New York Times" says, look, we interviewed 100 current and former employees. It's not an isolated incident kind of scenario. That's what "The New York Times" are saying.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: There were, in all fairness, some employees who defended Amazon, though too, within their article who said that there is an intrinsic motivation to be the best of the best and to some degree you work so hard but at the end you are rewarded.

ALESCI: That's right.

CABRERA: And I know Jeff Bezos is responding to this article as well saying it's not the Amazon that he had sought to create.

ALESCI: Yes. He issued a statement saying quote "the times claims that our intentional approach is to create a dystopian workplace where no fun is had and no laughter heard. I don't recognize this amazon and I very much hope you don't either. I strongly believe that anyone working in a company that really is like that the one described in the New York Times would be crazy to stay."

But here is the thing that is really telling about this response. It is that he doesn't say - he doesn't specifically say this this didn't happen or this doesn't happened. He says I am really disappointed and it doesn't look like the Amazon - doesn't tell when then Amazon I know. And he encourages employees to read the "New York Times" story. And if anything close like that has happened in their personal experiences, he encourages them to report it either to HR or to him. He also make this very nuance point about the talent war that goes on at tech companies. And he said, you know, talent is really hard to come by. So if we treated people really badly, we'd never be able to hire the best talent which clearly we have because we are a successful company.

CABRERA: The rumors would get around. And we heard from Mark Cohen here earlier who said he sent a lot of kids there, some of his best and brightest students because he is a professor at Columbia, and he said that he hasn't heard a complaint. So that does speaks to maybe a larger truth there.

Before I let you go, I understand that there's new information about the IRS data breach? ALESCI: That's right. The IRS is saying there's more people that

were affected by the data breach. Double the amount of the previous number. It was 104,000 and now we're up to 220,000 and the IRS will let people know that the people who are affected, it will reach out and let them know about it. But it certainly dis-concerning.

CABRERA: Yes. Not good.

All right. Christine Alesci, thank you so much.

ALESCI: Thank you.

CABRERA: Up next, President Obama talking to celebrities, he is trying to figure what he's going to do after the White House or maybe he knows. He has a plan. What was discussed at a late-night dinner party? Next.

Plus, an NFL star says he gave back the trophies that his kids just got for just participating. That they should only get trophies for winning. But not everyone agrees with his approach. That debate straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:03] CABRERA: President Obama can be the life of the party, even in the dead of night, apparently. "The New York Times" report that when a guest wanted to leave during a recent gathering around midnight, the commander in-chief got him and dozens of others to stay quote "well past 2:00 a.m." And what was this dinner for? Well, to discuss Obama's life after the presidency. He was seeking some advice from a who's who from the rich, the famous and super smart.

"The Times" reporting these seven people who were among the guests (INAUDIBLE), including writer Malcolm Gladwell, actress Eva Longoria and Lincoln billionaire Reid Hoffman.

Joining me now, one of "the New York Times" reporter who wrote the piece on the president and Gardener Harris is joining us. Thanks so much for being with us.

Dinners going past midnight? This doesn't sound like a man who is burned out after seven years in the office.

GARDENER HARRIS, REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: No, I think clearly the president is having a pretty good time and the president seen as the years go on, he seems to be relaxing that much more. I mean, you didn't say, Ana, but you know, we've got details in here about his choice of drink. He's a martini drinker. He likes it very dry with vodka. And these dinners go on, as you said, very late into the night. They are talking, to some extent, about what he will do after the presidency. But here is a man who just loves getting very, very smart people together and very famous people together and letting them talk and listen and he's been doing this now for some time.

CABRERA: And in your article, you talk about part of that vision after the presidency and he's focused on making his library the most futuristic or tech savvy presidential library ever. And how is he going to do that?

HARRIS: Well, that's exactly right. I mean, you have to sort of take him at his word that in some months after the presidency he's going to be sitting on a beach drinking out of coconuts. Then he is probably going to write a book. He's already written two. The rumors are that he will make as much as $20 million from some publisher to write a book.

But after that, he is really looking at, you know, he is going to be one of the youngest ex-presidents in history. He's going to have, hopefully, a very long life. How does he spend it? And the questions are sort of myriad. Is he as public as Bill Clinton or as private as George Bush? Does he based his life out of his presidential library, say, as Jimmy Carter has with the carter Center or does he sort of build a library and then have a very separate life from the library as Bill Clinton has done?

So, you know, his questions for these gatherings and these dinnertimes and, you know, they include Steven Spielberg and Jeffrey Katzenberg when he is out in Hollywood. They include that sort of tech billionaires when he's up in San Francisco. He's asking a lot of very smart people with a lot of money who, by the way, can help him fund this post presidency lifestyle, what their ideas are.

CABRERA: It sounds like he has a pretty ambitious fundraising plan.

[15:40:01] HARRIS: He does. I mean, everybody is sort of talking about he needs at least $800 million but that's -- they are really talking about a floor, not a ceiling. I mean, again, lessons learned. Bill Clinton raised $500 million for his library and then only later really started fundraising for his foundation. And one of the reasons that Hillary Clinton has had some controversy is that he has continued to go out and raise big money from some less than savory characters sometimes and that need to fund his foundation has just continued for him.

So everybody is sort of saying essentially that he wants to raises much money as he needs very early on when people still know him and love him so that all of that later stuff doesn't really have to happen.

CABRERA: Maybe he can cruise into retirement in some way. Gardener Harris --

HARRIS: Don't we all want that?

CABRERA: I know right. Thank you for pulling back the curtain for us. Really interesting details that you provided.

HARRIS: Sure.

CABRERA: Good to have you.

Speaking of the White House, Republican's top choice to fill the seat should maybe wear a cap along with that cap he has because Donald trump is apparently batman. Yes. That's what he told a 9-year-old boy from Iowa who rode on his helicopter this weekend at the Iowa state fair. Watch the You Tube video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Trump?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you batman?

TRUMP: I am batman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: That's pretty cute, actually. My colleague, John Berman, asked one of Trump's top advisors in Iowa about that claim today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump told the child this weekend that he is batman. Chuck Laudner, can you confirm to us that Donald Trump is batman?

CHUCK LAUDNER, DONALD TRUMP'S ADVISOR: Well, I don't think I can confirm it but it certainly connects a few dots. I'll just say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Well, TRUMP gave free rides on his helicopter to dozens of kids at the Iowa state fair. Certainly looks like he was having fun doing all that.

Up next, the great trophy debate. Should every child get an award just for participating? One NFL player reigniting the conversation about this after he rejected his kids' trophies because they didn't earn them. It's a topic that has a lot of parents divided, including my next two guests. That's next.

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[15:46:52] CABRERA: A father's tough love has started a parental firestorm. Steelers outside linebacker James Harrison told the world on Instagram that he was sending back a pair of athletic trophies awarded to his sons. Why? Because he says they didn't earn them. Harrison explained it in this way, saying in part, came home to find out my boys received two trophies for nothing, participation trophies, and while I am very proud of my boys for everything that they do and will encourage them until the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they earn a real trophy. Not about to raise two boys to making them believe that they are entitled to something just because they tried their best. Some parents say, sure kids need to learn how to win and lose, but what's wrong with showing them a little appreciation.

Well, joining me two people on both sides of the debate, clinical psychology professor Wild Cornell medical college Kenneth Berish. Also with us Ashley Marryman, the author of "Nurture shock, new thinking about children" and "tough dog, the science of winning and losing."

So Ashley, I'll start with you. Was James Harrison wrong to reject those trophies? You say no.

ASHLEY MARRYMAN, OPPOSE PARTICIPATION TROPHY: No, I don't think so. I mean, we weren't at the house, right, so I'm presuming he had a conversation with his kids and explained that we want to give kids trophies when they earn them, and not just simply for showing up and participating, for showing meaningful effort and growth.

CABRERA: So Professor Berish, what do you think? Can trophies that are just for participation lead to a sense of entitlement?

KENNETH BERISH, SUPPORTS PARTICIPATION TROPHIES: No, I haven't found that. I haven't found that kids do develop a sense of entitlement. These kids you have to remember are six and eight years old. I disagree with Harrison. They did earn those trophies. They earned those trophies not only by showing up but by working hard. And we should encourage their participation and their efforts. And the trophies are a form of that.

CABRERA: But in real life you could argue that not all are created equal and when you do the best and you really shine, that those people deserve the trophies.

BERISH: Well, but winning isn't everything. (INAUDIBLE) was actually wrong about this. And there are a lot of good things that kids do that we should encourage and recognize, including being part of a team, making a contribution to a team, developing character and, again, effort. It's not all about winning or losing. That where I disagree with Harrison.

CABRERA: And on that note, I want to play both of you something. This is from major league baseball hall of famer John Smoltz. He gave a speech where he encouraged parents to just let their kids have fun. Let's listen and talk on the back side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN SMOLTZ, MLB HALL OF FAMER: Know that your children's passion and desire to play baseball is something they can do without a competitive pitch. Every competitive - every throw a kid makes today is a competitive pitch. They don't go outside. They don't have fun. They don't throw enough but they are competing and maxing out too hard, too early and that's why we are having these problems. So please, take care of those great future arms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Ashley, are parents putting too much importance on competition and winning?

MARRYMAN: Well, I want to back up for a second. I respect the professor's work but the assumption was that the kids actually did work hard and the point of a participation trophy is that you get it regardless of your effort. You don't even have to show up for practice or for games. We're still giving you the same exact award.

And I'm not good turning every kid's activities into "the Hunger Games." I absolutely agree that parents are doing too early specialization of sports, they are focus on everything, but they're not giving kids that chance, hey, let's just play. And we don't care about the result. No, everyone comes home with a trophy.

The message isn't we're just playing and learning. The message is you must always be a winner. That's why I want to stop giving everybody a trophy. We can get kids, hey, you lost, no big deal, we'll try again next week. What I care about is I don't care if you won or lost. Did you learn? Did you improve? Did you grow? That's what's important. And that's what is going to get the kids motivate to continue, not just from they are six or eight, but the rest of their lifetime. Not focus on outcome, but growth.

[15:51:02] CABRERA: Professor, do you agree?

BERISH: Yes, I actually agree with that. I think the importance is growth. And I'm not sure I really disagree with Ashley about that. It's important to encourage kids to work hard, to be part of a team, to learn that there are a lot of important thing, and I agree with John Smoltz, that there is too much competition. Everything is a competition these days. And that is not the way it should be.

CABRERA: And so, Ashley, coming back to the initial question. Is there too much emphasis on the importance of winning?

MARRYMAN: I would rather no one get a trophy than everyone get a trophy, because it is. It's that message you must always win. We are watching you. And I think that kids just need that time, hey, we don't keep scores. Whether you're six years old or 60, novices need time to learn how to do something and not feel like they're being judged.

And a trophy, even if everyone gets it is still a judgment. It's still we're watching you, you're worthy. And I just want kids to have that time to learn and what the professor was saying in earlier in terms of character, I have no problem telling kids at the beginning of the season, I give a trophy for the best, I give a trophy for the most improved and I give a trophy for the person with the best character. If you stay extra, and you help your other teammates, that's more important to me than any other outcome.

I think that gives them the opportunity what's your goal? What is important? Being a good person? That's what I want to work on? Great. But it's letting kids decide what's important, and not us just telling them here's what you're doing and here's the trophy no matter what actually happened.

CABRERA: All right, Ashley Marryman and Kenneth Berish, our thanks to both of you. And definitely a tough one for parents. We all want to do what is best for our kids. And you can ask Ashley a question in the CNN Facebook Q&A today at 4:30 p.m. eastern. Just go to facebook.com/cnnparents. Again, thanks, both of you. Up next, new developments now surrounding a political sex scandal

between two lawmakers, the attempted cover-up backfired and now the political aide who witnessed it all is not holding back about what he saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An inordinate amount of time going to walks with each other. They frequently greeted each other with what seemed to be long, romantic highly personal hugs and embraces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:57:44] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us about it.

TRUMP: Such professional people. We had a great time. The potential jurors were wonderful, the people that run the system are really talented, really great people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you satisfied your service?

TRUMP: I have. I have satisfied my commitment. So actually they chose nobody. We were one of those lucky days but they chose nobody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready to come back tomorrow?

TRUMP: I'm ready to comeback in six years. I think they say in six years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Donald Trump there moments ago leaving jury duty. We'll have much more on this on "the LEAD" coming up in just a moment.

But first a new twist on what's already been a curvy story. It involve an extramarital affair between two Michigan state lawmakers and a huge effort to conceal it. Now, at the center tea party representative Todd Courser and Cindy Gamrat. Now, the state house tryst came to the public attention after a very complicated set of events.

According to report, Courser fabricated a male prostitute story to try to hide the affair that he allegedly was having with Gamrat. Well, the newest twist came just moments ago when a former aide to both Courser and Gamrat spoke out for the first time, calling both lawmakers disrespectful to staff. Listen, as he describes what he says he witnessed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSHUA CLINE, WITNESS: They frequently greeted each other with what appeared to be long, romantic, highly personal hugs and embraces. Mr. Courser often nap on Rep. Gamrat's office floor. Upon seeing him, Representative Gamrat would tap him a pillow and a blanket. Rep. Courser was out of his office. And there was occasions where he do mostly work on Gamrat's office did Courser work there. Rep. Courser often told representative Gamrat how beautiful she was or how nice she look that day. It was exccesibly personal and quite awkward to witness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: That was Joshua Cline, coming after a weekend of confessions from Gamrat and Courser beginning late Friday afternoon, when Representative Gamrat spoke for the first time tearfully apologizing with her husband at her side. And then on Saturday Courser took to Facebook. He posted a nearly 2,000 words stridulating apology and a confession. So far, both lawmakers say they intend to stay on the job.

Not a happy note. That's going to do it for me. John Berman is in for Jake Tapper.

I'm Ana Cabrera in for Brooke Baldwin. Thanks so much for being here. "THE LEAD" starts right now.