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Donald Trump Surging in Brand New CNN Poll; Interview with Jesse Ventura; Black Lives Matter. Aired 10-11:00p ET

Aired August 18, 2015 - 22:00   ET


[22:00:00.000] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Donald Trump surging in the brand new CNN poll. And you may be surprised to hear who really supports him. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. And here's a hint from the mogul who wants to be your next president.


DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I cherish women. And I will be great on women's health issues. Believe me.


LEMON: That's right. Ladies love Donald Trump, 60 percent of republican women voters have a positive impression of Trump. The men, not far behind at 57 percent. The lesson here, don't bet against Donald Trump.

And tonight, I'm going to talk to the man who says he'd like to be on the short list for Donald Trump's running mate, Jesse Ventura.

Plus, Black Lives Matter. But do black votes matter, as well. I'm going to talk to the activists making your voices heard on the campaign trail

But I want to begin with a day in Trump. The candidate America loves to watch. Topping our new CNN poll at 24 percent, up 6 points since July. Six out of 10 republican women have a positive impression of Donald Trump. But will that translate into vote?

So, joining me now is Katrina Campins, who was fired by Donald Trump in season one of "The Apprentice," also CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston, and Campbell Brown, the co-founder of the web site The 74, which a non-profit new site covering education in America.

I'm interested in talking to you about that Campbell. But first, Maeve, to you, it seems like no matter what he does, he is Teflon. Nothing sticks. He just keeps gaining support. What do you make of it?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: He does seem to just sort of defy all of the rules of politics over and over again. And I think so many of us were wrong at the beginning when we thought that this would be a momentary thing. The poll numbers that you showed with women is really are quite

surprising because obviously, a lot of people were a little bit taken back by that exchange between him and Megyn Kelly in the last debate. I will say, though, anecdotally, I was at the Iowa State Fair this past weekend with Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton that I did talk to a lot of republican women voters there who say, yes, they like some of what Trump is doing, but they do have some reservations about the way that he has talked about women. And are a little bit nervous about the idea of him in the Oval Office.


RESTON: So, we're going to have to see how that plays out.

LEMON: So, when you said, you know, not everyone believe, we all are wrong, not everybody was wrong. But I think you're speaking directly of Campbell Brown. Because, Campbell, when the last you were here just a few weeks ago, you thought that Trump had maxed out on his craziness. That was after he said that John McCain was not a hero. So, what do you think of his campaign since then?

CAMPBELL BROWN, THE 74 WEB SITE CO-FOUNDER: Well, clearly, I was wrong. He's not maxed out on his craziness. He has much more craziness left in him and much, much further to go. But, look, I think we're in the summer of 2015. I don't think these poll numbers are reflective of where people are or how they're feeling.

You get very focused when you get into a voting booth. And people are far, far, far from that. They're having a good a good time. They're enjoying the beginning of the campaign. And so, it's much easier to say to a pollster that you like Donald Trump.

I mean, he's a protest candidate. There is an authenticity to him that is lacking in a lot of politicians and that's very appealing to people. But I just don't believe at this stage, this early in the game. And if you look at, you know, all of our history on this, these poll numbers really are reflective of where people are going to end up.

LEMON: And Katrina, you know, after his attacks on Megyn Kelly, a lot of people, you know, wondered if women -- how women would react. In this poll, look, 63 percent of republican women have a positive impression of him. Why do you think that is?

KATRINA CAMPINS, "THE APPRENTICE" CANDIDATE: Well, having known Trump for over a decade now and still working with the family very closely today, I believe it's because people know that he's completely independent from lobbyists and special interest groups.

And therefore, he has the greatest potential to really fix our corrupt political system. And I think regardless of what the media is saying and the pettiness that goes back and forth and that definitely catches people's attention, what Americans really care about is we need this country to be fixed.

And I believe that from a business perspective, people think that he has the best ability. You know, as an American, forget my association with Trump. As an American, what I want to know is what are we going to do about health care. What's happening about the job system?

You know, typical example is my father, who was an immigrant from Cuba, worked his entire life, paid social security and now he's on Medicaid. But yet, Medicaid won't allow him to see the doctor that he's seeing for his cancer treatment. And so, now he has to get insurance.

[22:04:54] These are the issues that I care about as an American, not whether Trump is fighting with Megyn Kelly or Rosie O'Donnell. That to me doesn't matter. So, I think we need to get down to what's important, how are we going to fix this country and let's talk about real issues.

Yes, Trump is definitely entertainer, but I also think he has great potential to fix this country.

LEMON: Hey, Campbell, I see you you're shaking your head. I'm not sure if it's an agreement but let me read off of this poll. And then you can respond here because it says, republican says trust Trump more on the top issues, 45 percent say they trust Trump more in the economy. They said at 44 percent they say they trust him on illegal immigration, and 32 percent they trust him to handle ISIS. Go ahead, Campbell.

BROWN: Well, I do think what's driving the poll numbers right now is not where he is on the issues, but the entertainment piece. Because he has not gone deep on the issues and really explain his policy positions on how he plan to fix healthcare.

I mean, he's performing. He's speaking in sound bites. He's got great talking points and he's an amazing performer. But in fairness, we don't really know what his policy positions are on a lot of things. So, that is still up in the air.

I think what the poll number you may have left with just looking at the CNN wires on this, was I think the numbers was around 58 percent of people who think, ultimately, though, he is not an electable candidate. That they would have a better shot of winning, republicans would, if there was another nominee.


BROWN: And to me, that says, at the end of the day, that's where people are going to end up with the more electable candidate.

LEMON: Go ahead, Maeve.

RESTON: Well, I mean, you have to -- you have to really think about that point and the fact that Trump is not doing that well up against Hillary Clinton. Ultimately, a lot of voters do make their decision in the last 48 hours. And what they're often looking for in that time period is who looks most electable of the republican contenders against the democrats. I think that over time, Donald Trump will look like he has a lot of

vulnerabilities that some of these other candidates do not have. And as people start to think more about that, that's going to be a different kind of calculation like the one that Campbell was talking about.

I think after the next couple of debate as well we may see some very different poll numbers. Once Trump is having to explain in detail, whether any of his plans make any sense and are actually feasible.

LEMON: OK. But, listen. Let's talk about that. Because I think he is driving really the conversation now. Whatever he talks about even if it's controversial, people -- the other candidates start to talk about. Maeve, you have a great piece about Jeb Bush at the Iowa State Fair on Before Trump, Jeb Bush was leading with $100 million in support. But he is not connecting with the voters. What's going on?

RESTON: Well, I think he's connecting with some voters. But the voters that I talked to at the Iowa State Fair this weekend and that some of these other events over the last couple of months keep waiting to hear more energy from him. They want to see someone who talks tough and is strong.

I think that's a lot of what Trump's appeal is right now. And Jeb comes off as kind of bookish to some people. He seems very well-versed on the issues, but they're still kind of waiting for that like the pizzazz and that connection that they had to, you know, even to his brother, when George W. Bush was running, he could go on a rope line and grip someone's shoulder and look them in the eye and you'd feel like you had a real connection there.

LEMON: But he's calling himself, Maeve, he's calling himself a tortoise. And people like a tortoise?

RESTON: The 'joyful tortoise, right.


RESTON: And so, I don't know how many people connect with the 'joyful tortoise,' but we'll see over time. And I think, you know, the more that he talk about policy that will get more attractive to people over time when they get tired watching the show that Campbell is talking about.

LEMON: Yes. And so, listen. He's not, he's not...

BROWN: Can I get, Don?

LEMON: Go ahead, Campbell.

BROWN: No, I was just going to say, the one danger, though, I think, and you've seen it already is that when the other candidates go after him. Because he's such an unconventional candidate that the conventional rules don't really apply. And that's why he slammed to everyone. And if you look at Rick Perry trying to take him on, where's Rick

Perry today? He's very close to trying to getting out of the campaign. Scott Walker didn't gain anything by taking him on. It's sort of a dangerous game to play. So, if you were advising these candidates, I would agree with Maeve, and just tell them to stick with their game. Demonstrate that they want to be president of the United States and that they are up to speed on the policy.

LEMON: Campbell, let's talk about some of the issues here and one issue that you find very important, that's education, right? Your new site is called The 74, hosting an education summit for most of the major candidates tomorrow. Talk about education. Give us a headline. Is Trump coming?

BROWN: That's the headline. Well, tomorrow we've got six of the major candidates. We have Bush, we have Carly Fiorina, Kasich, Walker, Jindal, and Christie, all coming. It's 45 minutes, one-on-one with each of these candidates talking about education and very heavy and very deep on the policy.

So, you can't come here and sit down and have a 45-minute conversation and not really have done your homework. You will be exposed.

[22:09:55] Now let me say this. We invited him, they told me, this is at the beginning, we invited all the candidates and they told me he had a jury duty this week. They didn't know for sure if he'd be able to make it. But they wanted me to go ahead and announce it. I decided not to. Because I don't think it was fair to the other candidates who could commit.

And I think they were a little annoyed with us for not putting his name out there. And so, we've reissued the invitation when he got cleared from jury duty and we've not heard back from him. But I will tell you this, I think it would be very challenging for him to sit down and try to have a 45-minute conversation about the future of education policy around K through 12 in this country.

I just -- I think you can't get away with it for that long with talking points and sound bites. He can go give a speech about education, but I don't think it would work. And when we get into the weeds on the policy, I think that's where you're going to start, over time, to really see people who are ready to be president emerge.

LEMON: Well, that is the best, you know this TV game. Well, this is the best TV ever. Will he show up? We don't know. So, people will be watching Campbell.

I got to ask all of you this. And I'm going to start with Katrina. Everyone's predictions, will Donald Trump be the republican nominee? Katrina?

CAMPINS: I think it's still too early to tell. I think, as many people have mentioned on the panel, people like the entertainment value. I think the Americans are waiting to see what exactly is going to be said about the policies. Because when it comes down to it, we, as Americans, want to know

what's important to us and how the future president of the United States is going to, you know, fix those issues.

LEMON: Right.

CAMPINS: And so, I think it's just too early in the process. And remember, most Americans don't even vote. And so, where I'm hoping that this time around people will actually get up and go to the polls.

LEMON: Maeve.

RESTON: I'd say highly unlikely.

LEMON: Short and sweet. Campbell?

BROWN: No, because republicans want a winning candidate and they know he's not electable.

LEMON: I'm surprise that you said that, Campbell. Not so. That was short. Thank you very much. I appreciate it all of you. We'll see you real soon here back on this program. Thank you very much.

And tomorrow night, our Chris Cuomo sits down with Donald Trump, one on one. CNN special report, the Donald Trump interview, tomorrow night 9 Eastern, right here on CNN with my colleague, Chris Cuomo.

When we come right back, the man who just might be in the running to join the Trump ticket. Jesse Ventura could tell Donald Trump a thing or two about running for office as an outsider candidate. There he is live.

But, first, the musical style of Josh Groban singing the tweets of Donald Trump on Jimmy Kimmel live.


LEMON: So, Donald Trump constantly reminding voters that he is a businessman not a politician and he is surging the polls shows that voters like what they're hearing.

So, is being an outsider necessarily and advantage. Joining me now a man who knows a lot about that is Jesse Venture. The former professional wrestler who became governor of Minnesota. He is now the host of Off the Grid on Ora TV.

Jesse 'The Body' Ventura, thank you very much for joining us. You have been friends with Trump for many years. You're an outsider who ran for public office and won. Do you think Trump can pull this thing off?

JESSE VENTURA, FORMER MINNESOTTA GOVERNOR: I think he certainly has the opportunity to do so. But remember something, also. I ran and was mayor of the sixth largest city in the State of Minnesota for years also. So, I really held political office before I became the governor for four years as a suburban mayor. But, can he do it? He certainly has to be reckoned with because of his

wealth. Donald Trump can't be bought off. The corporations aren't going to be able to pay him off like they do the democratic and republican candidates. They're in uproar over that. And that's the thing that's attractive about Trump and the same with me.

I couldn't be bought off, either. I took no special interest money, I took no pack money. The only thing I took were donations of $50 from regular citizens and I actually only raised $300,000 to become the governor of Minnesota.

I made more money doing the job than what I paid to get it. And I think that's why Trump has this opportunity because I'm ecstatic over it. Because he's throwing a wrench and Bernie Sanders is throwing a wrench in the Democratic Party.

Both of these, they've had a two path for too long. And it's time for the people to rise up and let them know we are still the boss, not the two political parties.

LEMON: He, to say to the least, definitely, unconventional, right? Also, he did something I think that you would agree that you did. He doesn't use talking points. He gets up there, he talks off script. He's not, you know, he's not political talking points. That is what's appealing, even though people criticize him for maybe not having enough -- not being versed enough on policy.

VENTURA: Yes, that's exactly correct. I found that out when I ran for Governor of Minnesota. I went against Hubert's Skip Humphrey, Hubert Humphrey son, and Senator Norm Coleman who says a sleek as you can get being highly trained politically.

And I realized that the first debate that I needed to be different from them. I never used a note. I never used a prepared speech. And it resonated tremendously. Well, Donald Trump was watching because he was there. He was in support of me way back then. And Donald and I have been friends for a long time. I don't agree with everything.

I think his immigration policy is ridiculous and I'll tell you why. If you build a 24-foot wall it's this simple. I'll find someone with a 21-foot ladder. And the point being is, what are you going to do? Shoot someone and kill them if they crawl over the wall. That's going to be of the death sentence for someone to do that?


LEMON: What about sending the families back?

VENTURA: I think this whole thing is ridiculous. You're not going to solve anything with a wall. What's that?

LEMON: What about sending families back?

VENTURA: You know, that's policy -- that's immigration policy that needs to be handled. But, you know, I find it interesting. I do Off the Grid and I live over half the year in Mexico. And I go into Mexico and I'm welcomed there.

Yet, when I when I turned around, it's harder to get back in my own country. Do we really want to live in East Berlin? Do we want the United States to be a walled community? We might as well take the Statue of Liberty down then, shouldn't we?

[22:20:08] LEMON: Listen, according to the latest CNN ORC poll, right? And it says voters trust Trump on key issues more than his competitors. But here's the thing. Almost 6 in 10, Jesse, 6 in 10 people say that GOP has a better chance with someone else on the ticket. How do you read that?

VENTURA: I'm not sure. Because, like I said, I've taken on both parties twice. And I've beaten them twice as a complete independent as a third party candidate. All I know is that they're being infiltrated and they're being ripped apart right now from the cozy cushion that they've have for 30 to 35 years and I love it.

I couldn't be happier, Don, to see the turmoil in both of these political parties. They need a wake-up call, we need a revolution. When I say revolution, it doesn't have to be violent. It could be at the ballot box.

LEMON: I think most people -- I'm thinking of which to put them down. So, you know, Trump -- he's gone to hot water over his Megyn Kelly blood comment, some other comments including his remarks on Mexican immigrants, Senator John McCain appeal POW appointee.

VENTURA: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

LEMON: Go for it.

VENTURA: Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. Megyn Kelly? She used a quote, as I understand it, from Donald Trump's television show. And she calls that journalism? That's like you using a quote from when I did a pro-wrestling interview. Come on. You're entertaining. That's his job. You can't take a quote from "The Apprentice" show and use that to define a man. Look at Trump's record. The way I understand it, women get equal pay under Donald Trump.

LEMON: OK. But why is that? Isn't -- when you're running for president, I mean, isn't everything is out there. And part of it is seeing how you answer tough questions. And maybe some questions that you may deem to be unfair?

VENTURA: Well, that certainly, absolutely that can happen. You guys have already said that I looking to be Donald's running mate. Well, that's unfair. I never said that. I simply said, gee, what would happen if he did take someone like me, the ultimate independent. Can you imagine what the republicans would do with that?

LEMON: Well, do you want to answer that? Are you looking? You said that you...

VENTURA: And, see -- and it would be -- and wait. It would be a smart move because look at all the libertarian and independent voters I would bring with me.

LEMON: So, what are you saying?

VENTURA: All the wonderful...


LEMON: You're accusing us of putting the cart before the horse and then you say something like that? What are we supposed to believe?

VENTURA: Ha? You're supposed to believe exactly what you're getting. You're getting yourself throwing right back at you courtesy of Jesse 'The Body.'

LEMON: Well, that answer. Would you be on the ticket with him?

VENTURA: Don, let me do a shameless plug.


VENTURA: I would seriously consider it, yes.


VENTURA: I would consider if Donald came to me and ask me to run with him, I would give it its due consideration. I respect Donald Trump to do that.


VENTURA: To give it consideration.

LEMON: Before you give your shameless plug, I want to take a break. I'm going to bring you back, OK? And then you can give your shameless plug. So, stay with me.

Coming right back, I want to hear Jesse Ventura's advice on how Donald Trump should govern. We'll be right back.


LEMON: Donald Trump is a clear leader of the pack in the GOP race. He tops the new CNN poll with the 24 percent. His nearest competitor, Jeb Bush, 11 points behind him.

Back with me now, Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota. All right, what's your shameless plug?

VENTURA: What was that now? I'm sorry, Don. Now, it's raining here.

LEMON: What is -- you said you had a shameless plug. What's your shameless plug?

VENTURA: Oh, my shameless plug is that -- I don't know what it is. We've taken a break. Go on. I can't remember. LEMON: That's why people love you. Honesty. All right. Listen, I want

to play this clip from your show. It's called Off the Grid. Here's your response to all these candidates raising millions of dollar in campaign contributions. Watch.


VENTURA: It needs to be taken seriously. Put all presidential candidates in NASCAR racing suits so that then they got big patches all over them with their 10 top campaign contributors. That way, we, as voters, can clearly see who owns them, who finances them, and who their allegiance will be with so that we can be educated voters when we walk into the polls.

It's no longer a laughing matter. And to my knowledge, the only guy who would have a clean suit would be Donald Trump. He'd probably only have Trump on the front of his suit.


LEMON: And so, you make think that you're being positions there but you've make -- you make a very good point, pointing out something that a lot of people find appealing. He's not beholden to anyone.

VENTURA: Yes, that's exactly it. Where all these other candidates take a look at them. You know, I make fun using the NASCAR analogy, the suits. But it's the truth really. We need to know who really own them because they are nothing but puppets owned by the corporations.

And it's like I've told people. If you have the Super Bowl every year and you go and you own both teams or you bet on both teams, you can't lose, can you?

LEMON: Yes, you're right. So, listen...


VENTURA: There you go.

LEMON: ... if Trump -- if he did become president...

VENTURA: If you pay -- if you bought off both sides, you're good to go.

LEMON: If he did become president -- I have a feeling that he's not going to see eye to eye with anyone on Capitol Hill, something that I think you'd be premier from your own time as governor. So, what advice would you give him if president Trump so he could govern effectively?

VENTURA: Well, I think the advice I'd give him is to remember this. If he gets or when he gets elected, if that happens, he's not the benevolent dictator. Not like you are when you're head of a corporation, where, what you say goes.

[22:29:59] He has to understand that government is a case of checks and balances and people have to work together and compromises have to happen. You are not a dictator like you are in the corporate of business world. And I think Donald must be aware of that.

But if he's not aware of it, that would be my advice for him to be prepared for is that preparation that he can't be like on his television show where he is the boss. There's other people involved that have power also.

LEMON: OK. All right. I think it's important to talk about this. Can we switch gears now? And I want to talk about your defamation suit against Navy SEAL, Chris Kyle, the late war hero, the movie "American Sniper" was based on.


LEMON: You were awarded $1.8 million in a defamation suit against this state Chris Kyle's widow is now appealing. And she now has the support of 33 media outlets including The New York Times and The Washington Post, and others. What's going on here?

VENTURA: Well, they want the ability to profit from wrongdoing. I won defamation and unjust enrichment awards. They want the unjust enrichment law changed so that they can defame people, it will turn it into a business. You won't even have to check to see if you're right. Because defamation is so hard to prove, anyway.

Imagine, for a moment, Don, how overwhelming the evidence had to be. You've got a war veteran who's deceased and you've got his grieving widow. And yet, I won overwhelming. Because the story was a lie. That is the truth of the matter. And they're trying to profit from wrongdoing now. And the media wants them to have the ability to do that.

If they're successful, this won't just affect Jesse Ventura, this will affect everybody. It will become a business for the media to defame and make money at it. And, by the way, just so you know, Anderson Cooper owes me an apology because the widow has not -- it hasn't cost her one cent.

Everything has been paid for by mutual insurance. And everything, if there's a settlement or any award will be paid by an insurance company. And that was misrepresented by the media to make me look like the villain.

LEMON: Well, by the way, I respect Anderson. Now I'll let you and Anderson deal with that between you two. And I'm sure he'll have you on his show and you guys can take care of that.

VENTURA: Well, I'm just waiting for -- I'm just waiting for his apology. I like to throw it out to him. That he owes me an apology.

LEMON: All right. Well, I'm sure Anderson will deal with that. He's a stand-up guy.

But by the way, you know, I noticed that in the opening of your show, Off the Grid, you list a few things about yourself. You said, patriot, Navy SEAL wrestler, independent governor. So, again, you said president with a question mark. You told me earlier that you would, you know, possibly, if he asked

you, that you would -- you would do -- you would be his running mate. But what about president? Why president that question mark? Are you throwing your hat in the ring for that as well?

VENTURA: No, but it's always provocative to think about it. I don't know what tomorrow will bring. You know, next June, the libertarians have their convention and they choose their presidential nominee. And they have pretty much valid access in all 50 states.

So, if you were -- why would I get in now, Don? Get the pipers out of there. It's ridiculous. It's a big waste of money. And as you know, I'm physically conservative. I don't waste money when I run for things.

If I were to enter, I would enter next June with the libertarians. And I would wait till that, till they're down to candidates, the two parties. Then you get if you're allowed in the debates, you beat them in the debates which I could do and I could sneak in and be your next president.

It's that simple. And you know what I'd run on, Don? I'd run on this. Because the Libertarians is exactly what it is, liberty. I would challenge the American people to elect the first president who doesn't belong to a political party so George Washington.


VENTURA: The father of our country.

LEMON: All right. So.

VENTURA: Wouldn't that be unique and I think you could win on that alone.

LEMON: All right. Next time you come on, say how you really feel. Jesse Ventura, thank you. I appreciate it, sir. Good luck.

VENTURA: All right. Thanks, Don. I appreciate the time.

LEMON: Yes. Coming up, tough questions for Hillary Clinton from Black Lives Matter activists. But how much do black votes matter? I'm going to ask the protesters why they said this.


JULIUS JONES, BLACK LIVES MATTER FOUNDER: If you don't tell black people what we need to do, then we won't tell you all what you need to do.



LEMON: Black Lives Matter activists. Making your voices heard on the campaign trail. Let's listen to some tense moments behind closed doors between Hillary Clinton and protesters this last week and it was in New Hampshire.


JONES: I says this as respectfully as I can. Like if you don't tell black people what we need to do, then we won't tell you all what we need to do.

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not telling you. I was telling you to tell me.

JONES: What I mean to say is that this is and has always been a problem of violence. There's not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

CLINTON: Well, if that is the...


JONES: And it's a conversation that close fact.

CLINTON: OK. I understand. I understand want you're saying.

JONES: Yes, and also respectfully...

CLINTON: Yes. Well, respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we're going to deal with the very real problems.

JONES: That's not what I mean.


LEMON: Joining me now, the activist you saw in that clip. Julius Jones, the founder of Black Lives Matter, Western Massachusetts. And also, Daunasia Yancey who's a founder and leader organizer of Black Lives Matter of Boston.

Thank you, guys, for coming in. I appreciate it.

So, there was some you had some really tough questions. What did you want Hillary Clinton to say? What were you trying to -- what answers were you trying to get out of her, Julius?

JONES: Hillary Clinton and Clinton family occupy a unique space in the mass incarceration that we experienced for the black community in the United States is experiencing today. Where the policies that they advanced are directly responsible for the largest increase in the prison population under any U.S. president.

[22:39:53] So, what we were looking for was something a little bit beyond the politics and the platform and what emotions she felt, if any, around her being person responsible and change for that.

LEMON: Do you think she answered that question?

DAUNASIA YANCEY, BOSTON BLACK LIVES MATTER FOUNDER & LEADER: No, that's not what we heard. What we heard was a conversation about policy. And actually some suggestions from what the Black Lives Matter movement needs to be doing. And again, I went to this side what we were looking for was some personal reflection on her education and advocacy for some of these policies that have really decimated black community.

LEMON: But as far as she was talking to you about policy and how to change things really change with policy and with legislation. You didn't hear any of that in what she was saying?

JONEs: Oh, no. We definitely -- we definitely heard it. I mean, we were there and we were in conversation with her. And there was something that I was readily apparent but that's what she was offering. But I was also readily apparent about what she was not offering was the fact that the reason why the Black Lives Matter movement that she was trying to push her responsibility on to fix these problems, part of the reasons why this problem exists is because of some of the decisions that she made personally.

LEMON: Because of her husband made.

JONES: She lobbied for it and she advanced it as FLOTUS and she also advanced it as a Senator of New York.

LEMON: OK. I want you to listen to this. Because since you mentioned the former president, this is how he handled race relations. There was an issue with race relations back in the '90 when he was running in a very similar situation to this. Take a listen.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Last year, she said you can't call me or any black person anywhere in the world a racist. We don't have the power to do to white people what white people have done to us. And even if we did, we don't have that low down dirty nature. If there are any good white people, I haven't met them? Where are they? Right here in this room. That's where they are.

I know she is a young person, but she has a big influence on a lot of people. And when people say that, if you took the words white and black and you reversed them, you might think David Duke was giving that speech. I think all of us have got to be sensitive that we can't get anywhere in this country pointing to finger at one another across racial lands. If we do that, we're dead. And they will beat us.


LEMON: So, he was talking about republicans will beat them. And he's talking about sister soldier who said that maybe, you know, black people should kill white people, what have you.

But they were talking about racial injustice. He was talking about racial injustice and having made some mistakes. And when you make a mistake, you own it. But ultimately, you have to work together. No one says exactly what you want them to say in a negotiation. Do you understand what he was saying. And even if that relates now to

Hillary Clinton. She's not going to have perfect language and neither is Bernie Sanders. What are you looking for them to say? The language that you want them to say?

YANCEY: So, what we're looking for, in the challenging of these presidential candidates is for them and advance the nuance understanding a racial -- of racial dynamics in this country. We had some expectations of presidents, right, that they have. In the economic that they have international policy understanding. And I think that what we're seeing is that any president of this country needs to have an advanced nuance understanding of racial dynamics. And that's not what we saw from Hillary Clinton.

JONES: And it's important to note that while he was saying that, he was also writing laws and passing legislation that directly translated into the breaking up of families. By locking away people for extremely long amounts of time, for extremely minor drug offenses.

Black people, at much higher rates than their white counterparts, even though, whites and blacks use drugs at the same rates.

LEMON: So, during that, you, the Black Lives Matter organization asked for no media to be present during your talk with Clinton? But...

YANCEY: That's correct.

LEMON: ... you filmed it. You didn't -- OK. Go ahead. Explain it. Because it was filmed and it was put out there. Why released the video?

YANCEY: So, we weren't ever asked anything about the media. So, our plan was to go in and then ask her a question in the public forum. When we arrived, we weren't able to do that. We were offered the opportunity to speak with her one-on-one. And we filmed it, so that we would have this video, that we would be able to publish.

I think it's really important that the public see our, you know, the presidential candidate's reactions to this type of question. But we never offered or asked about any media presence.

LEMON: So, why do you think it's important for the public to see this?

JONES: Because the United States needs to have a conversation, a deep conversation about how we treat each other. How Americans treat Americans. How white Americans treat black Americans. And the long -- longer than the Clintons' history of it.

If you look at the way the drugs are persecuted in our society today, particularly with heroin today, there's a massive heroin epidemic in the United States largely in rural United States and this is affecting largely whether you like it. And it's all these conversations about treatment programs and ways that we can get our community back together.


JONES: If you rewind 40 years ago, to the '60s and '70s the way that they handled the heroin problem in the black community, the way that they handled the crack problem in the black community was very different. The way that they handled drunk driving with...


[22:45:03] LEMON: Republican candidates are talking about. Rand Paul is talking about that particular issue. And the disparities, and drugs, and the thing between whites and blacks. It's coming from democrats from progressives. It's coming from the conservative side. Does that matter to you?

JONEs: What matters is the way that the United States conducted a war on drugs.

LEMON: But does that matter to you that it is not coming...


JONEs: The war on drugs that occurred on the black community. The war on drugs doesn't actually exist.

LEMON: I understand what you're saying.

JONES: It's war on drug users. Except when it comes to white users.

LEMON: But then why political process that we're having now and you are interrupting or disrupting progressive's liberals. Is that why you're doing it? Because conservatives are talking about it in this way and at least one is talking about it in a way that progressives or liberals are not talking about it.

JONES: We are disrupting the election process. I won't even actually call it disrupting -- I think we're participating in the election process. And just because we're not doing it in a way that is respectable or as part of process, I don't think it validates the participation.

A big part of what we're bringing is a different form of conversation, right? Because that's exactly what needs to happen. The United States does not have or good racial analysis or conversation about how we treat by...


LEMON: I want to give you this moment, and we're over time. So, I don't know how we're going to fix this, but I want to. Why is it -- why is it offensive to you when you call it violent language when people say all lives matter in relation to Black lives Matter?

YANCEY: So, the only time that we heard all lives matter is in direct confrontation with Black Lives Matter. You can actually see the trends on the Internet that the use of the hash tag didn't exist until Black Lives matter existed. And so, when people say all lives matter and you see it, in the

reaction to the Bernie Sanders shut down, right? That when people assert Black Lives Matter, the response is all lives matter. But it's indirect conflict with Black Lives Matter.

LEMON: You're not saying all lives don't matter. We're just saying we need to you to pay attention to black lives right now. Correct?

JONES: And when people say it, it's the most angry death like declaration of love that you can ever hear. It's very angry with the way people say it because it's indirect response to something that they find offensive. They find Black Lives Matter hearing it offensive, and so they have to say all lives matter.

LEMON: So, here's a criticism that you're going to shout so many people down that people aren't going to listen to you anymore would become cognitive for with many people deem, you know, they'll have feet to handles certain things. That if you continue to shout people down, even allies that people will start to tune you out. Is that concerned you at all?

YANCEY: No, that's not what we are seeing happening. Also we have a clear diversity of tactics. The Black Lives Matter network has 26 chapters. And as we've seen even in the past few weeks, we used a diversity of tactics to get our message across. And that is also what we've seen. We've seen Bernie Sanders we shut down and we've seen him that go over racial justice platform.

LEMON: I've got to run. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you guys coming on. We'll be right back.


LEMON: Tonight, a visit to one of the whitest places in America maybe and here to take you there. He's the newest member of the CNN family W. Kamau Bell, sociopolitical comedian -- sociopolitical comedian and host of upcoming CNN series, "United Shades of America." I want you to take a look at this.


W. KAMAU BELL, UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA SHOW HOST: Here we are at the Iowa State Fair. They never have come out. They never have come out.

People are taking pictures of me. I don't think it's because I'm famous. It's because I'm a black dude. It's fairly like livestock walking around, it's all about the food and the politics.

Now that I'm with CNN, I get my first assignment interviewing one of the republican presidential candidates. Nope. Not trump. I'm the new guy.

Waiting for I guess Mike Huckabee to come out here.

But, before I make my CNN debut, I make my C-SPAN debut.

I'm a black dude from Berkeley, California, tell me, tell me.

MIKE HUCKABEE, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe in treating everybody the same regardless of who they are and where they come from. I'd love to have your vote.

BELL: You'd love to have my vote? I'm going to think about it. I'm going to think about it.

HUCKABEE: If you think about a lot?

BELL: Yes.

HUCKABEE: And, you know, you're just engage. I can see what happens. You're going to say that's my guy.

BELL: Let me think. No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are Americans?

BELL: Next, a democrat. Martin O'Malley. He got his own problems connecting with black voters

MARTIN O'MALLEY: Black lives matter, white lives matter, all lives matter.

BELL: So, I'm going to try to help him out by teaching him a black man hand shake. So, can you show me handshake. If you're going to hold this, we have to this, and this, and this, this. All right. There we go.

Man, that was awful. Now, see some livestock who is soon to be dead stock.

Apparently we've got some ku klux lambs. What is the competition that I love exactly there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you were at the market lamb show.

BELL: Market lamb show.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what we're doing is we're showing the lamb and we're looking for muscle quality for the lamb to go into the food market.

BELL: These are food lamb?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. You're going to eat this.

BELL: I mean, I like them a little bit more well done than this. I was like, oh, this is like the adorable lamb show.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is your dinner.

BELL: This is dinner lamb?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. BELL: And now it's time for something inappropriately deep fried. I mean, hard healthy?


BELL: They're like -- they're like a tail a little bit on this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Their back is the number one weight loss.

BELL: OK. While politics divides us, food shoved on sticks brings us all together.

Pork on stick 2016. What do you have to say about the Iowa State Fair?


BELL: Are you going to eat anything?


BELL: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's why I'm going to eat.


LEMON: So, I know you thought the food was good. I can see the expression of face. But, seriously, what was, in all seriousness, what was it like being at the fair? That's probably the only -- one of the only black man there.

[22:55:02] BELL: Well, no, there were seven. I was told. Everybody sat there were seven black people in Iowa. We just want to hang out together. Apparently, there's an ordinance against that. But, you know, they're all very nice people. They eat a lot of that food. That food slows you down. And they need to start to look at things like Jeb Bush and go. That makes sense. Donald Trump, that makes sense.

LEMON: Was there a lot of support -- was there a support for Trump? I've got to run quickly. Was there any support for Trump there a lot?

BELL: Oh, yes, he's Kanye West of Iowa. He's a rock star.

LEMON: All right. I appreciate it. Thank you, sir.

BELL: Thank you. Miniature black lives matter.

LEMON: Thank you, W.

BELL: This one is for Don.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. And again, welcome to CNN and we'll see you here on CNN soon. I'm Don Lemon. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:00:00] LEMON: See you back here tomorrow night. I'm Don Lemon. AC360 starts right now.