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Donald Trump In Iowa Tonight; Univision Anchor Removed From Trump Event. Aired 9-10p ET.

Aired August 25, 2015 - 21:00   ET



UNIDENTIFED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT HOST: The breaking news tonight, Donald Trump rallying the faithful in Iowa tonight. We're going to give you all the highlights in just a minute. This is CNN tonight. I'm Don Lemon. But before the rally, there was a firework -- the fireworks. Univision anchor Jorge Ramos physically removed from Trump's news conference. Listen.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sit down. Sit down. Go ahead. No, you don't. You haven't been called. Go back to Univision. Go ahead. Go ahead.


TRUMP: Go ahead.


TRUMP: Sit down please. You weren't called. Yes. Go ahead.


LEMON: But that's not the end of it. Minutes later, Jorge Ramos is allowed back into the news conference. And that's when the real fireworks began.


TRUMP: Yes, good absolutely. Good. Absolutely. Good to have you back. OK.


TRUMP: Why do you say that? Well, a lot of people think -- no, no, excuse me. A lot of people know...




TRUMP: Why do you say that? Well, a lot of people think -- no, no. Excuse me. A lot of people -- no, no. I build buildings at a 94 -- can I tell you what's more complicated? What's more complicated is building a building that's 95 stories tall. OK?


TRUMP: I think so because I'm going to bring jobs back.


TRUMP: How much am I suing Univision for right now? No, no, do you know the number?


TRUMP: No, no, tell me. You know the number? And you know you're part of the lawsuit. How much I am a suing Univision for? Wait, wait, its $500 million. And they're very concerned about it I have to tell you. I 'm very good at this. Yeah go ahead.


TRUMP: I don't think I will.


LEMON: I want to bring in CNN Sara Murray now in Dubuque, Iowa with the campaign. So Sara that was quite a tensed moment or tensed moment that went on for awhile. You were there for the entire exchange. What was it like in that room?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: It was a pretty long exchange but what was really striking to me was the moment when Jorge Ramos was getting kicked out. I was actually standing right behind him and there was always that tense moment where you see a reporter challenging a public figure who doesn't want to answer the question and you want to know how they're going to handle it. And in this case it was pretty clear that Trump was not going to stand for it.

As soon as he sort of told Jorge to sit down and Jorge wasn't doing it, you start to see the security guards come in from around the corners. There is a number of them that actually came up around him and escorted him out. And Jorge sort of waited patiently in the hallway before coming back in and then they had this testy exchange on immigration.

But I think that back and forth is also what Donald Trump was worried about. He was a little worried that his news conference has going to get hijack and it was all going to become immigration and you know with Jorge asking some difficult questions about how feasible Donald Trump's plan really is.

So I think it is very telling to see how Donald Trump answer difficult questions but not entirely surprising. We do know this is the candidate who does not like to be challenged. When he is, he tends to hit back pretty hard.

LEMON: Yeah. What was that we didn't really, you couldn't really hear because Jorge Ramos was not on microphone. What was the question about? What was that exchange about?

MURRAY: So he originally started asking about the 11 million and whether you could really deport all of them. He's asking about the feasibility of it and saying he too was an immigrant. And I think that sort of stead off a red flag for Donald Trump. He said something about Jorge Ramos being from Univision so it is hard to say if he knew exactly at that point who he was or what was going on. But it was definitely a very testy exchange. More drama than I think we expected to see in the average news conference.

LEMON: And so, who did people think was out of line in that room, Trump or Jorge Ramos?


MURRAY: You know, I think both of them sort of came away with the moment they were probably hoping to get out of it. When you think about the Jorge Ramos, audience and Univision, there are a lot of people who watch that network and a very frustrated with what they've heard about Donald Trump. He is getting hammered on Spanish language media.

And I think they really wanted someone to stick to it Trump and say that, "This isn't OK and your plans don't make any sense." And for Trump look his voters like when he scores points against the media. Particularly when he says you know, the liberal media. So I think this is another sort of notch of pride for Donald Trump.

LEMON: All right. Sara and stay with us. Thank you very much we'll get back to you.

Joining me now is Democratic Strategist Maria Cardona, Buck Sexton of the National Security, author of "TheBlaze", the former "Apprentice" contestant, Katrina Campins, and Ben Ferguson, CNN Political Commentator and host of the "Ben Ferguson Show".

So I've got to ask all of you and I'm going to start with you, Maria, did Jorge Ramos end up helping Donald Trump in the moment where he thought he might catch him off guard?

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think two things happen. I do think that Donald Trump was helped by what Jorge Ramos did and Donald Trump's moment which is right now, which is when he wants to continue to get that percentage, that slice of the Republican electorate who is frustrated, who is angry, who is resentful.

And Donald Trump essentially embodies all of that anger. And today he did that. And I think that he is actually going to be helped by that.


CARDONA: But at the end, let's say he makes it to the general election. He is going to regret tonight what he did with Jorge Ramos.

LEMON: We'll get to that moment. But I just want to get everyone's opinion on what they though of this moment. Buck Sexton, to you, what did you think? Who was out of line here?

BUCK SEXTON, AUTHOR, THEBLAZE: Flexibility is a two-way street. But Jorge Ramos was the first one to transgress. There is no reason for him to merely come right out of the gate there and be very aggressive. A lot of people are pointing out that he is generally referred to us a journalist but he was acting more like an activist here. And if you're going to act like code pink protester yelling at Congress, people going to have a problem with that and they're going to ask you to leave.

Now he did get brought back. And I think the exchange that happened was pretty interesting. Jorge Ramos of course has a huge disadvantage he doesn't have a mic on...

LEMON: Yeah.

SEXTON: ... so it's kind of hard to even know what his saying so just the optics of it and the audio of it favored Donald Trump.

LEMON: And...

SEXTON: Trump I think came off better than he would if Jorge Ramos was willing to act just he just asked the question and obey the rules that all the rest of the journalists had to.

LEMON: Yeah. We didn't hear that in that exchange and I want to play it later for everyone here but he talks about building buildings. He said how can you build a fence? And he says I build 90-story buildings. I can build a fence. All right. So we'll standby. We want everyone to hear this moment. Let's listen to it again.


TRUMP: Okay who is next? Yeah please. Excuse me. Sit down. Sit down. Go ahead. No, you don't. You haven't been called. Go back to Univision. Go ahead. Go ahead.


TRUMP: Go ahead.


TRUMP: Sit down please. You weren't called. Yes. Go ahead.


LEMON: OK. That was the beginning of it. Do we have the full answer when he comes back into the room if we can play it for our audience? So I want to go to you now, Ben Ferguson. What do you make of this moment? Who was out of line here? BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look I think Ramos was

absolutely out of line. He knows how the press conference works. You point. You call on people. This was not like he was a candidate jumping in a car or walking out of an event. This was an obvious organized press conference.

And Ramos came in I'm sure thinking, I'm going to stick to it Donald Trump and my audience is going to love me and I'm going to make a scene so I can report on the scene. And the reality is it back fired. I mean this is why people love Donald Trump. He is a guy that will not allow you to bully him. He's not going to take it.

And I think the way that he handled it saying, "You're out of line. Sit down, I didn't call on you." He's not afraid of him. He let him come back in the room and had a longer conversation with Ramos that he did would probably all the other questions combined and I think for Donald Trump all this his going to do is make out of people look at him and say that's a tough guy, that's a tough negotiator.

This guy could be a tough president. And I think for Ramos, it will backfire a little bit.

SEXTON: Ramos fell into the Trump trap.

LEMON: Katrina, it reminded me of -- remember the heckler was at the Ronald Regan press conference and he grabbed the microphone and said I paid for this microphone and got the cheers from everyone.

Donald Trump had said, Katrina, "I'm not going to let anybody interrupt my press conference in reference to Black Lives Matter when he was talking about Bernie Sanders and he said I thought it was a disgraceful. What did you make of this moment?

KATRINA CAMPINS, FMR. APPRENTICE CONTESTANT: Well, I thought it was very Donald Trump. But I also thought that Jorge Ramos obviously had it all planned. He expected to go in there and definitely...

FERGUSON: Absolutely.

CAMPINS: ... create a scene and that's exactly what was done.

[21:10:02] And also I agree with what everybody else was saying which it seemed like Jorge was more of an activist, you know, rather than a journalist because I think that if it was done properly and if he waited for his turn and Trump would have answered his questions as he did when he came back into the room.

You know, I think that everything is going to be twisted about this situation which is so unfortunate and its going to cause another distraction like the Megyn Kelly situation has caused and like the Rosie O'Donnell has caused. And unfortunately, it takes away from the major issues that we as Americans want to hear and creates another distraction...

FERGUSON: But it keeps it...

CAMPINS: ... but definitely entertaining.

FERGUSON: ... but it keeps on it Donald Trump. I mean one of the things about this is -- look...


FERGUSON: ... Donald Trump, we've been talking about him now for not days. Not weeks. It's now in the months. If you're one of the other candidates in the GOP field, this is worst night you could have asked for because now, no one is paying attention to you.

No one is going to cover your event the way it may have been covered. For Donald Trump and his campaign...

CARDONA: But it's...

SEXTON: There's been important...

FERGUSON: ... as long as we're talking about him, he's going to keep winning.

SEXTON: ... follow on to what Ben is saying and that is that right now we're not talking about the fact that we're all supposed to believe that Joe Biden woke up some time this week and thought, "Yeah, maybe I'll run for president."

Hillary Clinton is losing to Marco Rubio who is in a very fractured field. Losing in three...


SEXTON: ... key swing states in the latest polling averages we're seeing. New York Times is reporting on this. This is obvious. No one is talking about that instead we're talking about all this Trump's now...

CARDONA: The big -- yeah.

SEXTON: ... so while Ben's right and that it's growing the Trump brand for politics, its also hitting Hillary a giant smoke screen.

LEMON: Hey, Maria. Maria, before I let you in here...

CARDONA: The biggest loser here the rest of the Republican Party.

LEMON: ... all right, Maria.

CARDONA: Look, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

LEMON: I want to ask you this question because he's picking fights...


LEMON: ... with female journalists as we know after the Fox debate. He's picking fights now with Hispanic journalist.


LEMON: So I don't know if he's picking a fight because as every one on the panel mentioned he wasn't called on. And as much as we respect and admire Jorge Ramos' work, but he wasn't called on in that moment. So -- but what do you think this is going to have on the Republican Party? Don't they need a female and the Hispanic vote?

CARDONA: Desperately, Don, yes. Absolutely. Let's be very clear. Tonight's exchange, both men were playing to their audiences. So this was not a fail for Jorge Ramos. Are you kidding me? You watch Univision's reporting about this now even and they are going crazy against Donald Trump. And for a -- and I've talked so much about this, Don.

For a Republican Party that needs to get additional support from Hispanic voters, making an enemy of Jorge Ramos is definitely not the way to do it. And in fact one of the things that Jorge Ramos was trying to give them the opportunity to do is to clarify his immigration stand. Because that is what brought down Mitt Romney, that is what brought down John McCain. It didn't work well for that.

FERGUSON: I strongly...

SEXTON: He was not trying to clarify it.

FERGUSON: I strongly...

SEXTON: He keeps telling Trump...

FERGUSON: ... I would say...

SEXTON: ... he kept telling Trump...

FERGUSON: ... yeah. He was saying...

LEMON: Wait one at a time. Buck, go ahead.

FERGUSON: ... yeah, he was saying...

SEXTON: Yeah. He was saying, you can't do this and you can't do that.

CARDONA: Absolutely.

SEXTON: In fact, U.S. federal law don't say that there have to be people deported under certain circumstances. In fact, Congress has voted multiple times to build a fence so him screaming, "You cannot do this which we hear in the audience what he's saying...

CAMPINS: He wasn't screaming.

LEMON: Katrina, go ahead quickly. Hang on, Ben. Katrina, go ahead.

CAMPINS: And I just...

CARDONA: Let's not exaggerate. CAMPINS: ... Jorge Ramos was definitely -- yeah, you know, but Jorge Ramos was definitely not there to help Donald Trump. Clarify his immigration stance.

CARDONA: Exactly. Well, now I think he was...


CARDONA: ... trying to get coming opportunity to do that.

CAMPINS: I absolutely think that...

LEMON: One at a time. One at a time. Go ahead, Ben.

FERGUSON: Don, this was a Univision stunt by Ramos. And let's also put this in perspective. If you love...


FERGUSON: ... Jorge Ramos, you're not going to vote for Donald Trump or any Republican. So let's not act like Donald Trump did a lot of damage to himself tonight or that GOP.

I love them when people act like, "Oh, my gosh, he ruined something." If you like Univision and Jorge Ramos and the legal immigrants in this country, you're not looking at any Republican candidate, so I'm not worried.

And to be real honest, if you're watching Jorge Ramos, the chances you even understand the words coming out of Donald Trump's mouth tonight. I highly doubt your going to know what he was saying anyway.

CARDONA: Wow, I watch...

LEMON: OK. Stand by...

CARDONA: ... the Univision, Ben.

FERGUSON: Well, you...

LEMON: All right. Stand by everyone. Stick with me. When we come right back highlights from Donald Trumps rally in Iowa tonight and all the mogul's feuds with reporters and his Republican rivals. Well be right back.



JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: So here is the comment (inaudible) it was (inaudible) full of empty promises.


RAMOS: (Inaudible) You cannot deny citizenship to the children in this country. You cannot build... TRUMP: Why do you say that?

RAMOS: ... you cannot do that.

TRUMP: Well, a lot of people think -- no, no, excuse me. A lot of people -- no, no -- a lot of people think that's not right. An act of Congress can do it. Now, it's possibly going to be have to be tested in courts but a lot of people think, if you come and you're on the other side of the border, I'm not talking about Mexico.

Somebody on the other side of the border, a woman is getting ready to have a baby. She crosses the border for one day has the baby all of sudden for the next 80 years, hopefully longer, for the next 80 years we have to take care of the people.

I don't think -- no, no, no. I don't think so -- excuse me. Some of the greatest legal scholars, and I know some of this television scholars agree with you. But some of the great legal scholars agree that that's not true. That if you come across -- excuse me. Just one second.

No, no. I am answering. If you come across for one day and you have a baby. Now, the baby is going to be an American citizen, there are great legal -- excuse me. There are great legal scholars at the top that say that's absolutely wrong. It's going to be tested. OK.

RAMOS: So how are you going to build 90 miles wall?

TRUMP: Very easy. I'm a builder, that's easy I build buildings at a 94 -- can I tell you what's more complicated? What's more complicated is building a building that's 95 stories tall. OK?

RAMOS: You think it is necessary for some times (inaudible).

TRUMP: Do you think so really, I don't think so? A lot of people don't think so.

RAMOS: 40 percent of (inaudible) think they have never said their reasons so you...

TRUMP: I don't believe that. OK, you're right, I don't believe it. And the drugs come, as see them --they have pictures, they have everything crawling over the fences which are by the way this high I mean, you have fences that are not this tall as I am.

RAMOS: They coming by fence, sir?

TRUMP: They're coming by many different ways but the primary way they're coming is being right through. Right past our border patrol who by the way are tremendous people. They can do the job but they're told not to.

RAMOS: (Inaudible) for the (inaudible) billion (inaudible).

TRUMP: Here's what we're going to do. Ready? OK.

RAMOS: Are you going to bring the army?

TRUMP: No, no, let me tell we're going to do it in a very humane fashion believe me. I have a bigger heart than you do. I'll do it in a very humane fashion. The one thing we're going to do.

RAMOS: (inaudible) with one question? With one question I want to ask. You're going to move on because this (inaudible)

TRUMP: OK, the one thing we're to start with immediately are the gangs and the real bad one's and you do agree there's some bad ones. Do you agree with that or do you think everyone is just perfect

No, no, I asked you a question. Do you agree with that? We have tremendous crime, we have tremendous problems. I can't deal with this. Listen we have tremendous crime. We have tremendously -- we have some very bad ones and I think you would agree with that, right?


RAMOS: There's a lot.

TRUMP: OK, they're a lot of bad ones, real bad ones because, you know, they looked at some of the gangs -- excuse me -- they looked at some of the gangs in Baltimore, they looked at some of the gangs in Chicago, they look in the Ferguson. They got some rough illegal immigrants in those gangs.

They're getting out. Do you mind if I send them out? No, if they come from Mexico, do you mind if I send them back to Mexico? No, no, do you mind if I'm send them back to Mexico? OK, those people are out. They'll going to be out so fast; your heads will spin, all right? The rest we're going to do and -- remember you used the term illegal immigrant. OK, will you should use it because that's the definition is.

RAMOS: All human being is illegal (inaudible).

TRUMP: OK. Well, when they cross the border from a legal standpoint, they're illegal immigrant when they don't have their papers. And I want to make it possible and you'll like this. This is the part you're going to like. I want the good people, the good people, I want them to come back and I want them on get documentation. And get -- so they become legal.

It's going to be -- you know what it's called? Management. So you're not used to good management because you're always talking about government.


TRUMP: Government -- let me just tell you. Wait, wait. Government is incompetent. Guys like Bush and some others that I won't name. They're incompetent people. They don't have it, they don't have it. I agree they can't do it.

But I'm a great manager. I know how manage things. I hire unbelievable people. When I look at the vets, the V.A. -- excuse me -- when I look at the V.A., we spend billions of dollars and people are treated horribly. OK, Horribly. That will work great.

What we're here will work great. And we want to get good people back in. And also, let me just tell you...

RAMOS: Because you're not even specific to answer problem.

TRUMP: I've given you specifics. I've given you -- great management and they going hopefully come back in very soon.


LEMON: OK. Buck Sexton is with me, Maria Cardona, Ben Ferguson, and Katrina Campins. Maria that was a very good exchange, what was wrong with that exchange, what was wrong with waiting for him to call you and have that exchange it was very good.

CARDONA: I agree. It was a terrific exchange. But I think a couple things happened there. Like I said earlier, they were both playing to their audiences and yes, Jorge jump in and it was part show on his part. But then Trump obviously told him to shut up and then had him kicked out. And then he rethought that and had him brought back in.

So again, both men are playing to both their audiences. And I can't wait to see Jorge Ramos show tomorrow to see how he is playing all of these because I guarantee you; it was a huge win for him and for Univision in terms of rating.

LEMON: I would love for him to come on this show and talk about.

CARDONA: I think should you invite him.

LEMON: And talk about it. We have invited him and I would love him to come on to talk about it. I got to go to Ben Ferguson. Ben, what was wrong with that exchange, I thought it was a pretty pleasant exchange...

FERGUSON: Nothing was wrong with it.

LEMON: ...pleasant exchange. And I thought there were some specifics in their.

FERGUSON: Well, there were some specifics and I think this come down to class. Ramos knew that this was -- that he knows how this type of press conferences work, where you sit down and you're called. He wanted that the theatrics to be, "I'm Ramos and I'm standing up for the illegal immigrant. I'm saying it respectfully but I'm going after Trump."

And I don't think it's going to turn out that way if actually watch it. Now, they may report on it differently. They may say, "I was kicked out and this big man picked me out and I then I was, you know, I forced my way back in." In reality the smartest thing Trump did was saying, "He's welcome to come back, but he's going to be polite, he's going to be respectful, he's going act like every other journalist in the room and I'll have a conversation with him."

And again, Donald Trump was very smart to exhaust that debate with him. Make it clear that he was not afraid of him and I think that's going to play well with voters.

CARDONA: It is a little laughable for Donald Trump, or people to be talking about Donald Trump and respectfulness and politeness.


LEMON: She does have a point there but to that point...

FERGUSON: He was more respectful than Ramos though.


LEMON: To that point, to that point back, Buck, I mean tone does tone really matter? Because you've heard Donald Trump say, you know, I'm bringing up all these important issues and everybody is talking about my tone, my tone. You know basically in paraphrasing it. Regarding my tone, I'm saying the right things, and I'm ahead in the polls. Does tone matter in that in that situation?

SEXTON: Does tone matter meaning should somebody be respectful of the fact that there are questions and answers and they're...

FERGUSON: Or the way that Mr. Trump handle the situation or both?

SEXTON: Look, he got a little aggressive. He's Donald Trump. What do we expect? When someone challenges him in that manner, and comes to him with the bunch or talking points, it did -- I will say, evolve into a more beneficial discussion for both sides. And I think it is through that both sides -- meaning that the Ramos supporters and Trump supports will come away from that saying, "Yeah, my guy did a really good job," so to speak.

And at the end, they got into some issues like for example deportation of gang members; I mean deportation of criminal, criminal illegal aliens is something it's that the administration already has been talking about and talking about more. Not doing a very good job.

So there some issues that terribly get out there but look Trump is Trump.

[21:25:01] And if you like Trump then you saw more but you like but you like tonight. If you don't, you find these whole things unfathomable.



SEXTON: You think the GOP is having an out of body experience and you cannot make heads or tails of the whole things. So I don't think any of that change after night, Don.

CARDONA: I agree with that.

LEMON: Katrina, do you think that this is different -- that Ben Ferguson has a point that it may be reported in certain media in a different way, do you believe Univision may spin it in a certain way to be favorable to Jorge Ramos or it?

CAMPINS: Absolutely.

LEMON: You do.

CAMPINS: Absolutely. And I feel like as I'm listening to this exchange as an American, I'm so frustrated because, I feel like again, people are losing signs of what Donald Trump is trying to say. What he's saying is that people should come to this country legally. And I know about that that process very well because my husband is going through it right now. And it is extremely expensive.

So there's more incentive for people to come over to this country illegally. So all he's saying is, let's make the process to come here legally easier and less expensive so there is more incentive to do that. And if people cross the border and that are not supposed to be there, let's make sure they're sent back.

But of course what the media is doing is twisting and turning everything that he's saying and what's so frustrating as an American is that the point is not getting across. People are so worried about his fights with Megyn Kelly and his fights with Jorge Ramos now and let's talk about the real issues...

FERGUSON: The part of that is his fault.

CAMPINS: ... we'll talk about issue that we as American care about. Forget about -- well, I don't think...

CARDONA: Well, he is ...


LEMON: Katrina, finish your thought.

CAMPINS: No, I think -- I don't think it's his fault. I think this is a fact that everything that he says gets misconstrued. I mean this immigration thing, I'm over hearing about the same thing about him claiming certain things about the Hispanic published. I'm a Hispanic woman. I'm not offended about what he is saying; I understood exactly what he's saying.

CARDONA: You're in the minority. I have to tell you.

FERGUSON: Hold on.

LEMON: OK, Let her finish. Let her finish.

CAMPINS: No. And I don't agree that I'm with the minority because last time I was on CNN speaking about this as a Hispanic woman, so many Hispanic women tweeted to me and said thank you for finally speaking for the real Hispanic woman for all the Hispanic women you're...

CARDONA: Wow, the real Hispanic women. OK, so I'm not a real Hispanic woman?

LEMON: All right. Does going have to the last word, thank you guys I appreciate it.

CARDONA: Keep thinking that, please. Keep thinking that

LEMON: When we come back, Donald Trump's event tonight is a news conference like none other you have seen before. It was wild even by Donald Trump standards.



LEMON: Break news tonight on CNN Tonight, Donald Trump speaks to a cheering crowd on Iowa tonight but he -- first he does battle with the reporter Univision's Jorge Ramos booted from Trump's news conference.

Joining me now to talk about it is CNN's Brian Stelter our senior media correspondent here and host of "Reliable Sources" on Sunday morning, Frank Sesno former CNN Washington Bureau Chief, and CNN Presidential historian Douglas Brinkley here with me as well.

I want to play a clip again from this news conference with Univision Anchor Jorge Ramos. Watch.


TRUMP: OK. Who is next? Yeah. Please. Excuse me. Sit down. You weren't called. Sit down. Sit down. Sit down. Go ahead. No, you don't. You haven't been called. Go back to Univision. Go ahead. Go ahead.

RAMOS: (Inaudible) you cannot deny citizenship to (inaudible)

TRUMP: Sit down, please. You weren't called.


LEMON: OK. So Donald Trump says that he was welcome back in and eventually he returned. So I want to get everyone's reaction just to the moment. First, Brian Stelter.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It was in some ways publicity stunt and it also an important journalistic moment and sort of both at the same time. He had been trying to get an interview with Trump for many months. Eventually, he seemed ecstatic. We're going to go to Iowa. They weren't sure if Jorge would actually get inside the press conference. He thought maybe he wouldn't be allowed in.

He was allowed in of course then kicked out and brought back in and it made for good T.V. but there was actually some journalistic substance to it even though we probably guess not. LEMON: Frank Sesno?

FRANK SESNO, FMR. CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Well it's kind of funny here for me because I interviewed Jorge not very look for a book I am writing and the chapter he's in is about confrontational questions because it's what he does.

He came up to Washington to confront the house speaker John Boehner on the immigration policy. He confronted Fidel Castro and the president of Colombia and he got himself kicked out of the country. This is what he does and he wants to do to it put people on the spot and put them on the record.

And yeah, there was some publicity stunt going on here but this was an important moment for him, for his constituency and I agree with Brian for journalism.

LEMON: Mr. Brinkley?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: He seemed to be very forceful on that press conference and nobody really likes somebody who kind of jumps in and acts someone's like here an activist reporter, trying to dominate things. I think the way Trump throw him out or the people they're got rid of them could have worked against Donald Trump but once he was brought in and Trump was able to give Jorge Ramos that kind of one on one time for that many minutes, I think that Trump folks tonight are very happy about how it was played out.

STELTER: And it ended with them saying we'll talk, you know, a Fusion Univision telling me tonight they definitely want to get an in-depth interview between Trump and Ramos. We'll see if that happens. Look where we are now, over the weekend it was about Biden and Warren. Now we're back to talking about Trump and about immigration. That might be a win for Trump.

LEMON: And to that end, I want to ask you and I'll -- Frank Sesno, how might the different networks use this? Univision, other networks, FOX possibly, CNN, MSNBC, how might they uses it? How might it be different on each one them?

SESNO: Well what you see it depends upon where stand, right. So for Univision, they've got a largely if not exclusively, certainly not exclusively but largely Latino audience, Hispanic audience. They have been trumping if you will, this topic of immigration. It is very close to the hearts of their audience. And is one of the reasons why Jorge Ramos made the case the way he did.

FOX is going to play this -- well I don't know how FOX is going to play this now because of the Megyn Kelly business but typically FOX would play this very differently.

LEMON: They didn't really run the press conference live which for, you know, if you are watching the networks, FOX didn't really go with much of it.

SESNO: You know, captain ratings is out there again and this is what he's doing, he's doing it here too, I mean it's an unbelievable spectacle in American politics.

STELTER: Trump is like a T.V. producer, you know, he creates the story lines, he comes up with great sound bites. He knows exactly what we in the media need even give shout outs to all this executive during his press conference in the events. You're right, we've never seen anything like it before.


LEMON: Douglas Brinkley, let's talk about history here and how it repeats itself sometimes. I want to play a clip from Ronald Reagan. This is at the 1980 presidential primary debate. Listen.


RONALD REAGAN, FMR. U.S. PRESIDENT: Excuse me, you asked me if you could make an announcement first and I asked you on the right intention to make an announcement (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the sound man please turn Mr. Reagan's mic off?

REAGAN: Is this on? Mr. Green, you turn on mic on us (inaudible) asked was on me if use -- I am paying for this microphone Mr. Green.


LEMON: Douglas Brinkley, immediately I thought of that. Reagan said he believed that this incident is what helped take him to the White House. What is this going to do for Donald Trump?

BRINKLEY: I immediately thought of that too, Don. I heard you mentioned it earlier. It rang that Reagan bell. I think it helps Trump. He is beating up on the liberal media, beating up on Univision. Trump has a lawsuit with them. The thing is this may not be the Ronald Reagan we have that one moment there in New Hampshire in 1980. This may be the first of many more for Donald Trump.

He seems to be able to manipulate the age of Twitter, the age of cable television, the age of the media moment like nobody else's business and I can only tell you the good news for CNN is on September 16th, the ratings are going to be very high because he bet with Jeb Bush and the others are going to have to go after Trump and he is a master of the putdown.

LEMON: When we come right back, Donald Trump's feud with Jorge Ramos is not the only one he is got going tonight. Wait until you hear what he says now about a certain Fox News anchor.




TRUMP: Look I have a lot of respect for Roger. We'll see I mean, you know, maybe, maybe not. I really don't know. Look I think they covered me terribly FOX News, I think they cover me terribly and I'm winning by double digits on every poll so I don't know. Maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't. I don't think I get good treatment by from FOX.


LEMON: Donald Trump talking about his coverage and treatment from FOX News. Speaking of its president Roger Ailes I have directly so back with me now, Brian Stelter, Frank Sesno and Douglas Brinkley, Brian Stelter and there's more.

STELTER: There's always more with Donald Trump, right Don?

LEMON: Yeah.

STELTER: Absolutely, you know, it's been 19 days since that FOX debate. CNN's debate at this point almost as close as the FOX debate was and yet, because of Trump, because of attacking Megyn Kelly again last night and then comments are on today, we're still talking about that question and the debate.

Really interesting though, Don, just tonight on media it looks like media, they found video of trump talking to Megyn Kelly back in 2011. This is back when Megyn Kelly did had moderated debate earlier in the season. And Trump was actually going to be a moderator, for it is weird period of time...

LEMON: It never happened no...

STELTER: ... he was going to contribute...

LEMON: Yeah.

STELTER: ... and that never happened. Here is what he said about Megyn Kelly.


TRUMP: I think it is a good idea and I think we get very good ratings I get good ratings, "The Apprentice" gets good ratings. That's why we're in season 12, I get the ratings and lot of people would watch. And I think again I cover things and a lot of people wouldn't cover. And I think I know the issues better than most if not almost all I mean I know moderators and their doing debates and don't know even know what they're talking about. They are just asking questions and they don't even know what the question means.

So I think we would do very well, we'll to have see what happens I mean one of the problems that we're having is they want me to give up the possibility of doing the independent run. And while it is not something I want to do, it's not something that I'm going to give up.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Do you really think you're a better moderator than I am? TRUMP: No I can never beat you, that wouldn't even be close. There will be no contest. You have done a great job by the way and I mean it.


STELTER: Some thing's never change.

LEMON: I was going to say it could be -- that could be today except for that last five seconds.

STELTER: Yes his talking about popularism and the ratings but then his like I could never beat you, you're so great at it. He is not saying that now obviously, there is no love lost between the two of them.

LEMON: Yeah.

STELTER: Megyn Kelly has been trying...

LEMON: Yeah.

STELTER: ... to take the high road here, but the fact that Roger Ailes came out today and so forcefully and vigorously defended Megyn, I've never seen anything like that, I've been monitoring, covering FOX News for over a decade, I've never seen a statement like this so forcefully in defense of a star like Megyn Kelly.

LEMON: I have to ask you Frank Sesno, listen people get divorces all the time. You don't stay in love with the person you're in love with always.

SESNO: Yeah, I'm not sure this is a divorce or a quibble or what they're doing, I don't know what there Donald Trump is in character or caricature here, but -- here's what -- here's what he's done and its really quite remarkable because now we're talking about Megyn Kelly a moment ago we're talking Jorge Ramos.

He's attacking the media across the board. Well, guess what, his read the polls, the public holds the media in some of the lowest regard it has ever held media as with all the other institutions that Donald Trump is attacking. He is a state of mind.

LEMON: Yeah.

SESNO: And that's what I think we hear when he speaks like this. It is a state of mind and it resonates with so many people, because they hold so many institutions in frustratingly agonizingly low regard.

LEMON: Is he the only one -- I don't know what it say take FOX News down but is he really the only person who can criticize FOX News in a way that makes them concerned that he actually might make a dent, that is really...

SESNO: Is a little like Nixon goes to China here, you know, I mean for to Donald Trump to do this. LEMON: Talk about that, Douglas Brinkley.

BRINKLEY: Well, look, there's a lot of personalities at FOX News. I hear all the time Donald Trump praising Sean Hannity praising Bill O'Reilly he has a feud with them Megyn Kelly. I think the problem wasn't his comment that he wish she go on vacation again but was calling here, re tweeting the notion that she's a bimbo. That's beyond the pale.

LEMON: Hey Douglas?


LEMON: Let me read them -- let me read them and then when we can talk about the word.


LEMON: Here's what he said he says Kelly Files was much better without Megyn Kelly her replacement while she was on vacation is much better. And he says I like the Kelly Files much better without @MegynKelly perhaps she could take another unscheduled vacation.

STELTER: Which is not true by the way.

LEMON: Megyn Kelly must have had a terrible vacation. She is really off her game was afraid to confront Dr. (inaudible) West, no clue on immigration. So yeah and then there's a re tweet one that you talked about which I hate saying that, you know, word bimbo.

STELTER: He also re tweeted someone calling her a waist.

LEMON: A respect to journalist.

STELTER: We're talking about the biggest star on FOX highest rated stars sometimes on FOX.

LEMON: Yeah.

STELTER: He is not going on win by going after Megyn Kelly except to Frank's point about how people don't like the media generally, even if you like Megyn Kelly you might like it Trump beats up the media in general.

LEMON: And to Douglas Brinkley I mean have you historically -- you're historian here.

[21:45:02] Have you ever seen anyone like this take on the media like this?

BRINKLEY: No, we're in under chartered territory right now, now way back in history, Theodore Roosevelt used to, you know, land bash, mock rackers and go after journalists to make mincemeat out of them. But this idea now that Donald Trump is just going to, you know, fry anybody that gets in his path. We didn't talk about it because we've been focused on the press conference, but in his speech, the mocking tone we had at Jeb Bush going saying that Jeb doesn't even like his own last name because he's embarrassed to be a Bush.

I mean these are horrible fighting words he's doing against fellow Republicans that he has to face in a few weeks here on CNN. I haven't seen somebody go for a kind scorched earth strategy like this. You're either for the Donald Trump brand or you're against it and there's no gray in between.

STELTER: Uncharted territory.

SESNO: An, Don, if I could jump here bit here I like to point something out here, because you talk about -- you made the Ronald Reagan comparison earlier. Reagan, you know, mocked the media and he talked about the puzzle palaces on the Potomac of his successor George H.W. Bush passed out little hats and things that said annoyed the media and re-elect Bush.

I mean they've all gone after the media but not with this viciousness and towards the others as Douglas was making with it the point that he was making with this very scorched earth, crass, absolutist tone to him that, you know, that there is no shade of gray here.

STELTER: Can I have one more word?

LEMON: Quick...

STELTER: ... he has been vicious...

LEMON: ... tell us. Go ahead. Yeah.

STELTER: He has been horrible, he's also having fun.

LEMON: Yeah.

STELTER: He's also having fun and nobody else seems to be having fun. My wife pointed out to me tonight as she was spell bound by another Trump event. This guy seems to be having a good time. People like to hang out with other people that are having a good time. Trumps keep having fun and as long as he keeps having fun, I'm pretty sure we're going to keep watching his events.

SESNO: They want a tough guy.

LEMON: I do think it's important to point this out. I'm not sure if it was Douglas or Frank Sesno who talked about this. But people at FOX are coming to of course Megyn Kelly's defense, even Sean Hannity saying, now he's made a point with immigration but he saying, leave Megyn Kelly alone...


LEMON: ... Dana Farino coming to her defense...


LEMON: ... Brian Kilmeade coming to defense and here's what Rupert Murdock tweeted earlier I'm sorry this from -- no this is Roger Ailes tweeted this earlier said "Donald Trump's surprise -- surprising unprovoked attack on Megyn Kelly during her show last night is it's a unacceptable as disturbing. Megyn Kelly represents the very best of American journalism and all of us at FOX News Channel reject the crude and irresponsible attempts to suggest otherwise."

That was that was the statement it was...

STELTER: That's right.

LEMON: ... the statement that they released, so.

STELTER: That's Ailes' way of saying, you're not going to be...

LEMON: Yeah.

STELTER: ... back on Fox News anytime soon Trump.

LEMON: But I do have to say though. In the exchange tonight, I'm not sure, you know, you guys that it was not we have you, some people say Ramos got best of Trump or Trump got best of Ramos. I did think in the beginning it made him seem strong, meaning Trump. And then also to be a gracious person because he allowed him back in to answer as many questions as he really wanted to.

STELTER: That's right. It went on four or five minutes.

LEMON: Yeah.

STELTER: Nobody else was going to get that treatment from Trump, Ramos was given the floor, given the chance to go on and on and I'm sure Ramos is going to say he appreciates the fact that Trump at least let him talk like that.

LEMON: Yeah. And we thank media for that clip, because it certainly added some texture and context on what we're talking about tonight. Thank you all, appreciate it.

We come right back Donald Trump is a $10 billion candidate but does that make him the man to handle our economy.

We'll be right back.



LEMON: Bad times on Wall Street and Donald Trump says he's the man to make America rich again. So what would the economy look like under a Donald Trump administration? Joining me now Dylan Ratigan, creator CNBC's "Fast Money" the creator, and what's called a cheap skeptic at tasty trade.

DYLAN RATIGAN, "CNBC'S FAST MONEY" CO-CREATOR: Is that a good job title or what?

LEMON: I guess so it is. RATIGAN: Chief skeptic? I worked for two decades to be the chief skeptic at tasty trade.

LEMON: OK so let's get into this, so day two of losses...

RATIGAN: Yeah. Well, more than that.

LEMON: ... I mean that is great today...

RATIGAN: Well, more than that, really.

LEMON: Yeah.

RATIGAN: But I mean it's four of five days and...

LEMON: At the end of the day, is this all good? Is this turmoil good for Donald Trump's candidacy because he is saying, "Listen, I predicted this China is...

RATIGAN: Yeah. I mean there's no question. This is a home run for Donald Trump. And do the same way the financial crisis was a home run for Barack Obama coming into 2008. Anybody who is an antiestablishment outside candidate and a political environment let alone a presidential or election year, is hugely advantaged to fear and anxiety about the economy, fear and anxiety of the economy or at the stock market always comes back to the incumbent political party.

So to the extent to which Donald Trump is the outsider looking in, he is incredibly well-positioned to drive all sorts of counter narrative against the Democrats, against Hillary Clinton, against George -- or to against Barack Obama and really, in his favor, whether that's accurate or not, is a total -- is it irrelevant quite honestly.

LEMON: Exactly that was -- I mean it was...

RATIGAN: ... just because it's good for Donald Trump doesn't mean that Donald Trump is good for America.

LEMON: So this gives him momentum...

RATIGAN: Economic.

LEMON: ... because he -- whatever part he wants to take and make his own...


LEMON: ... he can.

RATIGAN: I mean its like me I can sit here and tell you how to do a cable news show all day, but actually having to show up and host and do a cable news show...

LEMON: Right.

RATIGAN: ... is a much more -- is a much harder thing to do. I can tell you how to make a movie. Anybody who's not doesn't have to do it -- and in which Donald Trump doesn't have to be the president, he's not responsible for economic policy. He is a phenomenal television personality he's a brilliant man, by the way.

LEMON: Yeah. Yeah.

RATIGAN: And he's incredibly capable at portraying himself as a man of authority. However, his actual track record as an actual businessman is borderline -- I won't say fraudulent. It is -- he is somebody who plays the role of a billionaire businessman without ever actually creating the value of a billionaire businessman.

LEMON: But you can't discount his wealth and would he (inaudible)...

RATIGAN: I would never discount his wealth anymore than I would discount Kim Kardashian's celebrity. But it doesn't mean that Donald Trump is a legitimate billionaire businessman it means...

LEMON: Why not?

RATIGAN: ... that his inheritance from his father allowed him to portray himself as a billionaire businessman as a character in New York and then project the identity of billionaire businessman which he inherited and then monetized that by licensing his identity...


RATIGAN: actually generate income which is very different and being Steve Jobs, or Elon Musk or Mike Bloomberg...


LEMON: And starting from the bottom?

RATIGAN: ... where you invest money...

LEMON: OK let me ask you this.

RATIGAN: ... forgetting the starting at the bottom. Actually, creating something of value for other people...

LEMON: I got -- I had push back on you...

RATIGAN: which he does not do.

LEMON: ... because...

RATIGAN: Please.

LEMON: ... he could have sat on the money. He could have lost the money.

RATIGAN: He's a brilliant promoter, he created a magnificent identity...

LEMON: Well, let me get in the question...

RATIGAN: ... he does create value.

LEMON: ... let me get the question in. But what this is -- are people are saying it's not so much about that he is -- it whether he's a policy walk or not...


LEMON: ... he's a good manager. And we need a good manager.

RATIGAN: What is the evidence that he's a good manager, Don? He's declared bankruptcy multiple times. If he mismanages the American economy, is he going to default on U.S. debt because if the Donald Trump mechanism of financial reconciliation in the private sector which he says is "good business" is declaring bankruptcy and not paying his creditors and that day that is American foreign policy is a very sad day for America, and if this man's claim to fame as a businessman...

LEMON: Yeah.

RATIGAN: ... is that he is willing to and happily and proudly willing to not pay his creditors, as a matter of "good business"...

LEMON: Yeah.

RATIGAN: ... that is not how America wants to run itself.

LEMON: I have got literally just a few seconds. You worked at Bloomberg and you talk about...

RATIGAN: For a decade. Give or take.

LEMON: Yes, about he said he's going to bring all this people in Carl Icahn, all these guys who know to negotiate I've got quickly (inaudible)...

RATIGAN: But Don said early that Donald Trump said that?

LEMON: Yeah.

RATIGAN: Great. Well that will be -- that's absolutely -- yeah, I mean, again, you can say anything.

LEMON: Yeah, because he say.

RATIGAN: Donald Trump can say anything and he is.

LEMON: All right. I've got to run.

RATIGAN: It's pleasure.

LEMON: Thank you. More energy next time.

We come right back, more fireworks from Donald Trump's Iowa event tonight. Plus, the rivalry that may change everything on the democratic side with Joe Biden's run and whether Hillary Clinton he's going to take on Hillary Clinton.

We'll be right back.