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Ashley Madison Scandal; Trump Surging; Texas Police Officer Murdered. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired August 31, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY PARKER, FATHER OF ALISON PARKER: Alison would be really mad at me if I didn't take -- take this on.
And I promise you -- and I have said this time and again -- these people are messing with the wrong family. We're going -- we are going to effect a change, and it's going to happen.
And we need people like Senator Murphy and Governor McAuliffe, who are courageous enough to stand with us, and we will effect a change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: That was Alison Parker's parents with Poppy Harlow.
I should also point out the funeral for her cameraman, Adam Ward, 27 years of age, who was killed alongside Alison, that will be tomorrow. Arrangements for Alison's funeral have yet to be announced.
We continue on, hour two. This is CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
An accused cop killer steps before a judge today, his shackles breaking the silence there in the Texas courtroom. If, in fact, he is the killer, was 30-year-old Shannon Miles motivated by an anti-police sentiment? He's accused of murdering this Texas deputy early Saturday morning. A Houston-area sheriff is saying Miles may have targeted deputy Darren Goforth because he was wearing his law enforcement uniform.
The defendant himself said very little today, but the district attorney, she did not hold back, offering brutal details about how this officer died based upon what investigators saw in a surveillance video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEVON ANDERSON, HARRIS COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: They saw a dark- skinned male who was bald with red shorts and a white T-shirt run up behind the deputy who clearly didn't see him coming or hear him coming and shot him in the back of the head.
Deputy Goforth fell to the ground and the male stood over him and fired several more times into the back of his head and his back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Nick Valencia, let me just bring you in.
Can you just explain to me how investigators then tracked down this Shannon Miles? How did they find him?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were some distinctive items on his flatbed of his pickup, as well as an after-market hitch attached to that red Ford pickup truck that he was driving. They did a database search, according to investigators, and were able to get a hit on the car locally, not too far away, Brooke, From the gas station.
They show up, the brother answers the door, allows them to go inside. While they are inside, Shannon Miles shows up with somebody else. They question him, at which point they learn that he has weapons on his own. They get a search warrant for the garage and go inside and find that .45-caliber pistol, as we all as Aguila ammunition, which they matched back to the crime scene. They did a ballistic test on that gun and matched it to the gun used in the crime scene.
No doubt about it, according to the probable cause hearing, Devon Anderson, the Harris County district attorney, believes that Shannon Miles, this 30-year-old man, is the gunman. Over the weekend, we heard some very charged words, some choice words by Ron Hickman, the sheriff there in Harris County.
And while there's no official motive given just yet, Brooke, Hickman said it's no mistake to him why this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON HICKMAN, HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS, SHERIFF: At any point when the rhetoric ramps up to the point where calculated, cold-blooded assassination of police officers happen, this rhetoric has gotten out of control.
We have heard black lives matter, all lives matter. Well, cops' lives matter, too. So why don't we just drop the qualifier and just say lives matter and take that to the bank?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VALENCIA: Miles, of course, is charged with capital murder.
And in Texas -- you know this as well as I know this, Brooke -- he could face the death penalty. Our local affiliates say to not expect a trial to happen until at least next year, but incredibly sad just to see the family photo released over the weekend, Goforth's wife putting out that photo. We can't forget that this deputy is survived by his wife as well as two children, 12 years old and 5 years old, two children that will never see their father again -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Nick Valencia, thank you so much. You know, let's stay on part of this point here. Proponents of the
Black Lives Matter movement, they are distancing themselves from this Texas deputy's killing. They say his murder has nothing to do with their movement, but critics of Black Lives Matter point out this protest Saturday in Saint Paul, Minnesota, more than 1,100 miles from the crime scene in Houston. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROTESTERS: Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon. Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon. Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon. Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: David Katz, CEO of the global security group and formerly with the DEA. I also have Rashad Anthony Turner. He's lead organizer of Black Lives Matter in Saint Paul, Minnesota.
So, gentlemen, thank you both so, so much for being on with me.
DAVID KATZ, FOUNDER AND CEO, GLOBAL SECURITY GROUP: Thanks for having me, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Rashad, first to you.
I know I have heard you more than one to express your condolences of course for this family in Texas who lost a father and this husband and this deputy. But explain to me, with this video, why protesters would use this kind of language, pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon? I understand your movement wants attention. But isn't this the wrong kind of attention? Doesn't this hurt your cause?
RASHAD TURNER, BLACK LIVES MATTER: Brooke, I think that the question we should be asking is, why so much uproar over rhetoric and not the same uproar over the facts?
TURNER: Obviously, we send our condolences to the officer?
BALDWIN: Could you just answer that first? And then we will get to that question. I promise we will, but just first the answer to that before we get into your point about rhetoric.
TURNER: Well, I mean, again, we're out there using our voices.
And I don't think that anyone with our movement, anyone with Black Lives Matter Saint Paul is promoting violence against police officers. Our mission is to end violence against black people and the fact that every 28 hours, a black body is killed. And we really feel like the protest was peaceful, and people are trying to use it as a kind of a scapegoat because they felt like when a black person says they are going to disrupt, that all hell is just going to break loose. And I think a lot of people were disappointed that things were
peaceful, and that they are looking for something to hang their hats on. Obviously, we're not promoting any type of violence.
BALDWIN: I applaud any kind of peaceful movement, absolutely. I have had a number of people on the show who absolutely support what you do, including people who founded Black Lives Matter. They have been on.
But, again, back to the violent rhetoric, when you say pigs in a blanket, Rashad, I want you to tell me what that is supposed to me.
TURNER: I mean, it's an example of -- even with this case that we're seeing down in Houston, when people of color, black people are accused of killing a police officer, you don't see that man down there getting bail.
But what we see on the flip side of that is when a police officer kills an unarmed black male, that the system still works in their favor that they are able to get bail. So, when we say fry them, we're not speaking of kill a police officer.
BALDWIN: You're not?
TURNER: But we're saying treat the police the same as you're going to treat a civilian who commits murder against a police officer.
BALDWIN: David Katz, sort of representing the law enforcement side, how do you hear that?
KATZ: It took a long time for him to answer that question. The fact of the matter is, you can't just simply say this is not representative of our movement.
You have people holding that sign making those comments. You have protesters on the Brooklyn Bridge saying what do we want, dead cops, when do we want them, now. You have two dead cops in New York City. You have got Deputy Goforth shot in the head by a racist murderer because of what these guys are doing.
BALDWIN: We don't know his motivation. Let's be clear.
KATZ: My friend, did I interrupt you? I did not interrupt you.
KATZ: It's really interesting, because when you -- yes, when you commented on many, many shootings, particularly the one that started this off way back when, when a police officer was attacked by Michael Brown, and you still can't admit that he acted correctly, when you started this movement, you had no problem saying this is a racist white police officer.
Why should I be held to a different standard when I'm discussing a guy who walks behind a white police officer -- by the way, to me, it makes no difference. He wears the uniform, he's white, black, he wears the uniform, doesn't wear the uniform. When my fellow Americans are murdered in a church in South Carolina, I weep. When you start weeping for white cops who got shot down in Houston, then I will be talking the same message you talk.
TURNER: David, I think it's very courageous of you to tell me what I weep about.
Again, going back to my point earlier, the uproar over this rhetoric does not match the uproar that we see when a black person is killed every 28 hours by police. In Saint Paul, Minnesota, we have the deadliest police department in our state. We're not -- why do we want to get hung up on rhetoric, rather than addressing the facts? We need police reform. Otherwise,, the climate of this country is going to continue to be an us-vs.-them climate. And that helps no one. We all suffer from that, David.
BALDWIN: Let me ask you this, Rashad. And I -- 100 percent peaceful movement. We talked to somebody who was down at Ebenezer, Dr. King's church in Atlanta, who said to me just recently, Brooke, it's important to be even a little bit disruptive. That's what we did back in the day. That's the way people are going to help bring about change.
My question is, though, when you say this is peaceful and you don't want this to lead to violence, but when you are saying what you are about pigs in a blanket, I'm wondering if there are other people, Rashad, not at all affiliated with you all, but hear that and that then motivates them to violence?
TURNER: Brooke, I don't think it's fair that we need to be responsible for the actions of individuals who, first of all, don't represent our movement, don't represent our values.
So to associate us with someone who committed such a heinous act of murdering -- murdering a cop, murdering anybody, period, we don't want that. We're not promoting violence.
So, again, to spend all of this time or just have this uproar over the rhetoric, again, David and other police officers, they don't want to address the facts. Instead of people getting caught up on the rhetoric, let's get caught up on the fact that every 28 hours a black body is being killed. Let's get caught up on the fact that in our city of Saint Paul, the arrest rate is 9-1, nine black people for every one white person.
We need to talk about facts. We need to not be distracted by rhetoric. Again, we cannot be responsible for every individual and their choices.
BALDWIN: David Katz, jump in.
KATZ: OK. I really don't know where to start. I guess -- well, let me start here. When you have the majority of
police officers get involved in a shooting, whether black, individual, indifferent, are shooting people who are trying to kill them. And on this show, when people have...
TURNER: They are unarmed, David.
KATZ: Did I interrupt you?
TURNER: How can you be unarmed and trying to kill someone?
TURNER: Again, I'm not asking that.
KATZ: Hang on.
TURNER: You want to push the false narrative to our country. And it's not right.
KATZ: It's not a false narrative. If you are trying to beat a cop senseless and take his gun, that's grounds for deadly force. If you're not familiar with the law, you can acquaint yourself with it. But when I tell you, when I see police officer shoot...
TURNER: I'm very familiar with the law, David.
KATZ: I'm trying to answer your question. Trying to answer.
When I see a white police shoot down a black male running away, on this show, what did I say? That's murder. That's murder. And there's a system for that. It's called the justice system. And that guy is going to go away.
But when I see people in your movement who are just -- if it's a police shooting, it's wrong. It doesn't matter if the guy is armed, unarmed. We see this every single day. There's a shooting and there's a response. And I will be marching with you as soon as you say, hey, listen, when the wrong shooting, when the bad cops are taken off the streets, that's when I will be marching with you, when that's your message. But when you're screaming -- and you can't just say, well, I don't do
it. Other people do. What do we want? Dead cops. That resonates. People hear that. And people act on that and they have acted on that. And I think you should take a stand against that.
BALDWIN: Do you want to respond to that, Rashad?
TURNER: Again, again, we are not promoting violence. I don't care what narrative David is trying to push.
No one in our movement, no one in Black Lives Matter Saint Paul, no person with any sense is going to be promoting violence. Again, you're avoiding the fact that, you know -- the facts. We needs to stick to the facts. There's been over 700 people killed by police in this country since the beginning of this year. That's ridiculous. And that's what our movement is about. We want to stop being killed every 28 hours.
KATZ: It's not ridiculous if those people are having guns and they are trying to harm people. That's not ridiculous.
BALDWIN: Let me jump in on the facts.
TURNER: Yes, but there's been plenty of unarmed black males killed.
KATZ: Yes, there have. You're right. Yes, there have. I agree with you.
TURNER: So, it's not about being armed. It's not about the letter of the law. Police can lie. I mean, they have that in the law, that they can lie to people. So to just take an officer's word at face value...
KATZ: I don't understand what that means.
BALDWIN: No, he has a point. There have been issues with police reports; i.e., I think of the Charleston shooting.
KATZ: Those are crimes. And the officers who do that should either be fired, prosecuted or face whatever consequence is appropriate.
But the issue here is -- excuse me.
TURNER: They should be, but we're not seeing that.
(CROSSTALK) KATZ: When you simply say, 700 people are shot down by police, well, the vast majority of them are armed trying to do something, like -- we saw the other day a police officer -- someone tries to shoot two police officers and the police officer draws his weapon and takes the guy out.
Is that an unauthorized shooting or an illegal shooting? No. It's called self-defense. The fact of the matter is, there's a very, very small percentage of these cases that are inappropriate and they should -- those officers who act wrongly need to go to jail.
BALDWIN: Here's my fear. And I'm talking to both of you because I have sat in the middle of very different perspectives on this story for over a year now and my worry is that communication is being lost.
I'm hearing both sides and I think about communities where you are in Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Rashad, or in Baltimore I have been or in Saint Louis or even here in New York, where the communities who are frustrated with the law enforcement and the law enforcement frustrated with some parts of the communities are not totally communicating. We're not able to fully communicate here in this back and forth in this interview.
So what does that say about the overarching issue and any kind of solutions? Rashad and then David and then we have to go.
TURNER: I think it's a perfect example of, you know, we live in a country where police protect police.
So, if we're talking about good cops vs. bad cops, I'm not sure what a good cop is, because we don't see cops stepping up to the plate and reporting officers who are doing things that are illegal. What we see is them protect each other behind the badge.
We're getting hung up on this rhetoric that is making white people uncomfortable or causing that discomfort. Every day as a black man, I'm uncomfortable, simply because of the color of my skin. So we do need to look at the bigger picture. We need to be able to work together, but until we see change, we're not going to do things any other way. We're going to continue to demonstrate, we're going to continue to use our voices, we're going to continue to come together as a people.
And the sooner we can do that, where everyone is object board for fighting justice, the sooner we can create change.
BALDWIN: David, final word to you.
KATZ: You want to know about good cops.
Number one, Everett Hatcher, an African-American man, who was the hired me for DEA. He was shot down in an undercover operation years ago. I miss him dearly. He was a great man. Good cops, Matt Hughes, patrolman, NYPD, works up in Harlem, goes every single day because he wants to serve that community. Great cop. Former agent, pal of mine, Edward Marcinko, just retired from DEA, lives in Baltimore. Why? He retired so he could run for city council because he's weeping as to what is happening in his community. Those are good guys. Those are the guys you need to meet.
BALDWIN: David Katz.
TURNER: And the bigger picture, before we go, Brooke --
TURNER: The bigger picture is, we need to change the system. We can get hung up on individuals, but we need to change the system. Once the system changes, then we can talk about individuals. Until then, we need to be focused on changing the system. That's what David should be talking about, is, how do we change this system, Brooke?
BALDWIN: I hear you on the system, but, David, I hear you on great cops as well and I absolutely will take your word for it.
Both of you, David Katz, Rashad Turner, thank you. Thank you.
TURNER: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Next, some big news in the race for president. A fellow Republican now tied with Donald Trump in Iowa. My next guest says you are a fool if you support Donald Trump. We will debate that.
And at least one pastor resigning after his name surfaced from the Ashley Madison hack. We will talk live with a pastor's wife who forgave her husband.
And can you be pulled over for making eye contact with a police officer? Hear what one police officer told a driver and why they are about to meet face-to-face again. This is CNN.
BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
News just into us involving Hillary Clinton's e-mails. We can you tell you a U.S. official tells CNN that even more of those e-mails that passed through the private e-mail server Hillary Clinton used while serving as secretary of state have now been upgraded to classified.
To Elise Labott we go, our global affairs correspondent. How many of these, Elise, were upgraded, and why is this all so important?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: OK, Brooke, we're talking -- we're expecting later tonight about 7,000 of former Secretary Clinton's e-mails as part of the 55,000 that are going to be released over the coming year, 7,000 released of them tonight.
We understand from sources that about 150 of them have been upgraded now to classified. Now, to be clear, these were not marked classified at the time that they were set and we're unclear whether Secretary Clinton herself sent them or they were sent to her.
But why is this important? You have heard in recent months the State Department really coming under fire from the intelligence community as they have been releasing these documents for not paying close enough attention to sensitive information. There's been a lot of talk about whether so-called classified information was in these e-mails.
So now the State Department has a team from various intelligence agencies, about 12 people looking at these e-mails to see if there is sensitive information. We now understand 150 out of 7,000 have now been upgraded to classified.
The last two batches combined only had about 63. So percentage-wise, this is certainly an upgrade in number. But it also reflects the State Department being much more cautious and erring on the side of overpaying attention to these particular issues now, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Elise Labott, thank you.
Stay on politics. We're getting the clearest sign yet about what Iowa caucus goers are looking for in next's year first-in-the-nation presidential contest and really the headline thus far is that the outsiders are definitely in. The latest evidence coming today in the new Monmouth University poll of Iowa Republicans.
You will see here Dr. Ben Carson and Donald Trump are now tied at 23 percent, in third place, another insurgent candidate with no Washington experience, Carly Fiorina with 10 percent. When you look at everybody else, these are candidates with the name recognition, the political resumes. You will see them all single digits there, Monmouth University poll.
Trump is holding on. Ben Carson is surging.
Let's talk about with Kurt Schlichter and Lou Gargiulo. Lou is the co-chair for the Trump campaign in Rockingham County, New Hampshire. Kurt is a conservative commentator and he just wrote this opinion piece entitled "You Are a Fool If You're Supporting Donald Trump, and You're Being Exploited."
Welcome to both of you.
Kurt, to you, springboarding off of that title of your piece. Trump is still in the lead. In fact, he has managed to reverse his favorability rating. From 63 percent unfavorable and now he's at 61 percent favorable. Why are these supporters foolish?
Hi, Brooke. KURT SCHLICHTER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: There's two kinds of
supporters of Donald Trump. There's guys just like me who just love him going in there and pounding on the GOP establishment, an establishment that has betrayed us, that has lied to us and has generally treated us like dirt.
I like seeing him go over there and kidney-punch these creeps. But if you actually believe that Donald Trump is something like a conservative, you're literally insane. He's a political grifter who says whatever he has to say at any particular moment. [15:25:10]
BALDWIN: OK. So, insane, fools, Lou, would you like to respond to that?
LOU GARGIULO, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIRMAN, ROCKINGHAM COUNTY, NEW HAMPSHIRE: I certainly would, Brooke. Thank you for having me today.
Anybody who would suggest that Trump supporters are fools are in la-la land. The definition of a fool in my book is electing the same Beltway insiders time and time again, the same people who can't get anything accomplished in Washington. Mr. Trump has a proven record of being able to build a multibillion-dollar business, to employ people worldwide and to make things happen.
And to suggest that those of us support him are fools, it seems to me at this point that represents somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 percent of the Republican electorate today and the number is climbing. His candidacy is certainly an insurgency candidacy that people are coming on board left and right with.
BALDWIN: La-la land, fools, insane. I'm not feeling the warm and fuzzies between you two.
But, Kurt, this is what I was actually really fascinated with. One of our contributors, Maeve Reston, has this reporting that apparently big money Republican donors are seriously considering ways to pay for anti-Trump TV ads. Basically, this would be like a post-Labor Day anti-Trump ad campaign. What do you make of that move?
SCHLICHTER: Well, that's silly, Brooke, because we're not talking about reason and we're not talking about facts.
Look, Donald Trump voted for Barack Obama. He gave money to Hillary Clinton. We are not going to talk to people like Lou out of this. Lou, who is a great American and like me supports an insurgency against these establishment guys -- I have wrote a book called "Conservative Insurgency" -- he's angry. He's mad. He's lashing out.
Look, Donald Trump is the fault of the Republican establishment, absolutely and completely. But he's not the answer. This is a guy who voted for Obama, for Christ's sake.
BALDWIN: Because when you talk to the Republican establishment, they are like, he's not part of our tent, get him away, start throwing the punches now. That's what they will tell you.
SCHLICHTER: Oh, no, no, no. Trump isn't part of the Republican establishment.
I'm not even sure he's a Republican. He certainly wasn't a few years ago and he certainly wasn't when he was writing a check to Hillary Clinton, or agreeing with an assault weapons ban, wanting to fund the baby-dismembering maniacs at Planned Parenthood.
Look, Donald Trump is not a conservative. So you're crazy if you are a conservative and want to vote for Donald Trump to get this country back on a conservative path.
GARGIULO: Here we go again, calling a huge portion of the electorate crazy, the same rhetoric that John McCain used that only further moved Mr. Trump's candidacy forward.
The definition, again, of a fool is electing the same kind of people time and again. To say those of us who support Trump are angry, that's not the case. We're disgusted. We're disgusted with the rhetoric. We're disgusted with the mainstream media. We are disgusted with the mainstream Republican and Democratic Party, who are only interested in one thing, getting people elected who believe in the same bull that they have been espousing for centuries.
The time has come now to look for people from outside, people who have built businesses, people who have had significant accomplishments, and people who can make things happen. You can say all you want about Trump, OK? The one thing that's for sure, he's a realist and he's honest about what he believes. That's completely different from the rest, who say whatever they need to say to get.
BALDWIN: I take issue. You're disgusted with mainstream media. Your guy is getting a lot of coverage on mainstream media. Let me just throw that out there, marinate.
Lou Gargiulo, Kurt Schlichter, I love the two of you together. Come back. Come back, please.
In the meantime, coming up next here on CNN...
BALDWIN: You got it -- it's a list you do not want to find your spouse's name on. You know what I'm talking about, the leaked customer database from the adultery Web site Ashley Madison. But what happens if the list includes your church pastor?
That story is next.