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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER
Soon: Police Update On Cop Killing Manhunt. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired September 1, 2015 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
EUGENE O'DONNELL: law enforcement is in complete harmony in this situation. I'm sure the Wisconsin Patrol is involved. And these guys will not -- will not find any way out. Law enforcement will definitely work together here cohesively.
And you can be sure, at this point, in advance of the weather, the -- the time of the day, that they're getting as much resources in there, and essentially there is a blank check, that federal, state and local authorities will give whatever they're needed to give.
Often, they're further along in these cases than we know just from being outside of them. If you're inside of them, they may be far better positioned than we would think from being outside.
TAPPER: Well, obviously, there's no hard-and-fast rule when suspects are on the lam.
But, in general, in your experience, do suspects in manhunts such as these tend to go to a wooded area where there is no one or do they tend to go someplace like a house where they might have some sort of resources?
O'DONNELL: Yes. Well, it depends, if they're from the area, how well they know the area.
Presumably, the police, if there's associates in that area, the police are doing a full-court press on them, on family members. Presumably, they have been getting visits and will get visits. But as we saw in the Adirondacks with the Upstate New York escapee, as you said, they all have their own particular character.
Of course, in that case, there was deliberation and planning. The real issue here is how much time did they give it to shooting this officer? The likelihood is, this was instantaneous decision. And, therefore, their getaway plan, such as it is, is limited.
But law enforcement should assume nothing here. But it is absolutely vital -- and it often gets overlooked. There's going to come a time and a place where this may end up in a courtroom. And they have to absolutely be sure that in the midst of this and running urgently to secure the public, make these arrests, that the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed in a year or more when this case actually ends up in front of a jury, assuming that -- you have to assume that's where it will end up.
TAPPER: An important reminder.
Eugene O'Donnell, thank you so much.
A police officer shot and killed, a frantic manhunt under way for two suspects still on the run. We're expecting an update from authorities in just a few minutes. We're going to bring that to you live as it happens.
That's ahead after this quick break.
TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
You're looking at the latest pictures from Fox Lake, Illinois, as local police and the FBI and U.S. Marshals are racing to find two suspects who remain on the lam. And they are accused of murdering a police officer this morning.
In minutes, we're going to hear from police. They will give us the latest information in this manhunt, including the apprehension of the third suspect, according to Illinois State Police.
This story comes at the same time as a sharp spike in the murder rates of major cities across the country.
CNN's Martin Savidge set out to get some answers as to why these murder rates are spiking.
A warning now: Some of this content may be disturbing to watch.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): I'm hitching a ride with the NOPD, looking for trouble.
(on camera): What do you think is in your precinct the worst crime area?
(voice-over): In New Orleans, the blood-spattered bad old days are making a comeback. Here, two men are gunned down, murdered.
(on camera): So, we know that murder has gone up this year. Why?
CAPT. CHRIS GOODLY, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: If I had the magic answer, I would probably be a wealthy man.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): While violent crime overall has dipped, in the last year, homicides in the Big Easy have jumped 22 percent from historic lows.
But it's not just New Orleans. In Atlanta, murders are up 12 percent over the last year. Chicago is up 20 percent, Dallas up 23 percent. In the nation's capital, homicides are up 43 percent. Goodly, an 18- year police veteran, blames it on too many kids with too many guns with too little hope.
GOODLY: Got a lot of youth that just don't know how to handle aggression.
SAVIDGE: But could something else be to blame? Some suggest police have become less aggressive and less visible in high-crime areas in the aftermath of public outrage following the deaths of Michael Brown and Freddie Gray, noting cities near or where those incidents happened have seen a huge jump in homicide rates from last year.
Ferguson's neighbor Saint Louis has seen homicides up nearly 58 percent. And Baltimore saw murders there jump up 56 percent over last year.
Speaking in disguise to Brooke Baldwin, this Baltimore officer seems to admit cops have backed off, implying the public is getting what it asked for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the public really, really sees that they asked for a softer, less aggressive police department, and we have given them that. And now they're realizing that their way of thinking does not work.
SAVIDGE (on camera): You don't buy this theory that cops are backing off because of a public backlash?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, I don't.
SAVIDGE: Cedric Alexander is a 38-year law enforcement veteran and a member of President Obama's Task Force on 21st Century Policing.
ALEXANDER: In terms of a work slowdown, in terms of not taking calls or only responding to 911 calls, that is not what's happening across this country.
SAVIDGE: He points to other big cities such as Phoenix and Los Angeles where homicide rates are actually slightly down from a year ago.
HAROLD POLLACK, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: I don't think anyone really has a handle on it.
SAVIDGE: Those who research crime say homicide rates can be a lot like the stock market. There can be short-term wild swings, and you don't always know why.
POLLACK: I think there are many stories that people tell that are really not backed up by evidence right now.
SAVIDGE: Experts say we are still a lot safer than we were 15 to 20 years ago. As for this summer spike in homicides, it's a real murder mystery.
Martin Savidge, CNN, New Orleans.
TAPPER: Our thanks to Martin Savidge for that story.
As you can see, we're still continuing to cover the manhunt in Fox Lake, Illinois. But while we do that, let's get some perspective from a city facing these rising murder rates.
Joining me now, Sam Dotson. He's the chief of the Saint Louis Police Department.
Chief Dotson, before we get to the uptick in murders, including in Saint Louis, what do you think, what do you make of the scenes we're seeing right now in Fox Lake?
COL. SAM DOTSON, SAINT LOUIS METROPOLITAN POLICE CHIEF: I think all across the country, in Houston this weekend, we saw how dangerous police work is, and sheriffs gunned down at a gas station, an officer doing his job, confronting two or three individuals. It's a very dangerous job out there, and people are willing to use force against police officers. I worry about my officers every day.
TAPPER: Chief Dotson, in Saint Louis, as you know better than I, 136 people have been killed so far this year. At this time last year, that number was 85. That's an almost 65 percent rise. Why do you make of it? Why do you think that's going on?
DOTSON: I think there are a couple of things.
I think it's the availability of guns, it's the lack of outcomes in the court system that we're seeing, and I think it's young people that have lost some social skills, are more willing to violence to solve disputes.
When we were young, perhaps if we had a dispute over a car or a young lady, we would go behind the school and settle it with our fists. Now they go to guns. And in the city of Saint Louis alone, I have seen a 70 percent increase in stolen guns. That means guns that were purchased legally are now in the hands of criminals.
And when we arrest those criminals, my court system here doesn't give me an outcome that makes my community any safer.
TAPPER: Well, let's talk about those three things that you just identified. First of all, the availability of guns, what do you think should be done about this? Where are the people who are getting guns who should not be able to get guns, in Saint Louis, where are they getting them from?
DOTSON: Well, my state, Missouri, has a constitutional amendment in our state constitution that makes it an inalienable right to own a handgun. That's creating problems for me and for my officers and the
prosecutors when we arrest people to have them prosecuted through the court system for unlawful use of a weapon. So, there is our first. We're not getting outcomes.
Second, lax gun laws. Gun laws where we have gun shows where individuals with no identification at all can go and sell and trade guns puts guns in the hands of criminals very easily. And then young people that can have access to guns and their willingness to use them. I think we really as a nation have to be serious about addressing that issue. And right now in Saint Louis, it's a huge problem for us.
TAPPER: And you also said something about social skills of young people in Saint Louis. We heard a similar comment in "The New York Times" today, I believe, from the police chief in -- I believe it was Milwaukee -- I may be wrong -- saying that there seems to be young men in poor neighborhoods more willing to use guns to settle beefs or even petty disputes than before.
You have seen that in Saint Louis as well?
And Ed Flynn, the chief in Milwaukee -- and you're right, it was his quote -- went to say that it's a decision that these young people make. They would rather get caught by law enforcement with their gun, because there are no outcomes, than to be caught in their neighborhood without a gun by their peers.
So, I think it's that's culture shift, that mentality, that mind shift that's really caused us the problem.
TAPPER: All right, Chief Sam Dotson, thank you so much, and we wish the best to you and your officers in this difficult time, with the spiking murder rates.
We're going to stay on this breaking story, police expected to update any minute on the manhunt for suspects still at large who allegedly shot and killed a police officer right outside Chicago earlier today.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
TAPPER: We're continuing now with our breaking news. An urgent manhunt still underway for two suspects accused of murdering a police officer in Fox Lake, Illinois, that's about halfway between Chicago and Milwaukee, a third suspect is in custody, according to the Illinois State Police.
The FAA meanwhile has instituted a no fly zone in the surrounding area, where police and federal agents in SWAT gear are currently canvassing areas to go door to door to try and find these two suspects.
Let's get right to CNN's Rene Marsh who is following that part of the story. Rene, what can you tell us why is this blockade in the air going on?
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so it's a two-mile radius over this area, the purpose is to make sure that commercial aircraft general, aviation aircraft even drones don't get in the way of these police choppers, which are said to be actively looking for these other two suspects.
We know that often times it's quite normal where you see law enforcement reaching out to agencies like the FAA to coordinate with each other because they just want to be able to get in and out safely, meaning police choppers making their way in and out safely without having to worry about any other outside aircraft getting in the way.
So we know this afternoon the agency did make everyone aware, all pilots, if you should not be in that area, if you do not have authorization from the local police department, that is a no fly-zone.
TAPPER: All right, Rene Marsh, thank you so much. Let's go right back right now to our law enforcement analysts, Harry Houck and Tom Fuentes to talk about this chase, this manhunt going on right now, as we wait for this press conference of local and state authorities to begin.
Harry Houck, right now, obviously as far as we know, the intense manhunt still going on in the area, how does a manhunt like this begin. Do they canvas off a certain area, and then start to slowly retract and bring it in or do they expand it?
[16:50:09] HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: They would have to expand it with the more manpower that they get in there. They would have to expand this. One of the things that is very interesting is this one suspect that was captured.
If he was on foot, it tells me the other two didn't make it through the vehicle, and they are probably on foot also. If they have that perimeter surrounded when he was captured or maybe expanded the perimeter around that area, there's a good chance that those guys didn't make it.
Tom Fuentes said there is possibly they caught this one guy on foot, they didn't make it to the car. I'm sure the police officers are checking all the vehicles in the area that are running all the plates to find out if it was an abandoned vehicle. I believe these two guys it looks like it may also be on foot.
TAPPER: Tom Fuentes, we were talking earlier, the reports that it was two white men and one black man, the three suspects that the officer was initially pursuing, and that apparently allegedly killed the police officer.
And you suggested that they split up, at least based on the fact that one of these three men has been apprehended. That's not a lot to go on, to say two white guys, one black guy, how do law enforcement even begin to search for individuals with such a vague description?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, one of the things they'll be trying, Jake, is to take this individual. Hopefully he has a cell phone. Go through his records quickly and see if he's been in contact with other friends, start tracking those cell phones.
If these other two fugitives have their cell phones on, they may be able to track them by cell phone tower once they know the numbers associated with those guys. That's one means.
But we don't know how they made the apprehension of the one suspect. Did a citizen call in that someone was suspicious in their backyard? Did they make a traffic stop? Do they have some other information that led to picking up the first subject?
And I agree with Harry that once you have one, it becomes much easier to get the remaining two.
TAPPER: And, of course, Harry, we heard from another former NYPD officer earlier in the hour, he talked about the importance of police officers on the scene to make sure that any evidence they get will be admissible in court.
The other thing, perhaps more important is that these police officers have to protect their lives and the lives of the public. These individuals still wanted in this manhunt are presumed armed and dangerous.
HOUCK: Yes, exactly. The crime scene unit is already there gathering all the evidence they can from where this occurred. They're searching areas in the event that any other evidence was dropped by the suspects in the area where they fled.
They're getting evidence from the officer who was shot from his remains, so I mean, we've got a lot of things going on right now, and this one guy who was captured already, they probably already executed a search warrant in his home, already talked to his relatives, his friends.
And like Tom had said, very, very important, if he did have a cell phone, it's going to be easy for us, hopefully to be able to track these other two and ping their phone numbers. And then get --
TAPPER: Harry and Tom, stay right there, we're going to take a very, very quick break. We are expecting any minute for police to tell us the situation on the ground in Fox Lake, Illinois, where state police, the FBI and U.S. Marshalls are hunting for suspects accused of killing the police officer. We'll bring that to you live as it happens. Stay right there.
TAPPER: We're going out live to the press conference. Let's listen in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- preliminary investigation indicates Fox Lake police lieutenant had encountered three suspicious suspects, two male whites and one male black. Shortly after Lieutenant Gliniewicz informed he was in a foot pursuit. His communications then lost contact with him.
When our first backup units arrived at the scene, they located Lieutenant Gliniewicz injured with a gunshot wound. A massive search is now underway. We have the aggressive search to apprehend the offenders at large.
They're described as two male whites and one male black. We have the evidence processing at the scene, and we have the investigation into exactly what occurred here today. We are using many resources, using numerous air units to search from above and look below.
We are using numerous canine units that are sniff out and grab a hold of a scent for the offenders. We have numerous police officers across Northern Illinois as well and we're joined by state agencies and federal agencies as well.
We're asking for residents in the Fox Lake area to please be on alert if they see anything suspicious, to dial 911 immediately, anything out of the ordinary, anything they're not used to seeing in their subdivisions no tip is too small.
At this time, I'm going to turn the microphone over to Mayor Schmidt of the Village of Fox Lake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not only did Fox Lake lose a family member, I lost a very dear friend. The lieutenant was a 30-year veteran decorated police officer, a family man and dear friend to the entire village of Fox Lake.
A response today from law enforcement, local, state, and federal agencies has been remarkable. We would like to thank each agency and each officer who is out there right now assisting our officers. Understandably our officers are having a very difficult day today. We lost a family member.
They're dealing with the loss of their colleague, partner, but also identifying efforts to find the person responsible for this senseless tragedy. Our community is having a difficult time. In the coming days, it will be even more difficult to remember him, a police officer, a father and a member of our community.
G.I. Joe was the father of four boys, decorated police officer and an asset to our community. Many residents in here knew him as G.I. Joe, we remember him as someone deeply committed to Fox Lake, the profession and his fellow officers.
Going-forward, our focus is in three areas. The first is to mourn the death of Lieutenant Joe Glieniewicz. His commitment to the people, this community has been unmatched and he will be missed.
The second is to ensure the people of Fox Lake are safe as this investigation continues. We've been coordinating efforts with the schools, increasing our police presence making sure parents are notified about the status of their schools.
The minute we learned about this incident we put our scoots on soft lockdown and advised parents that they should pick up their children from the school. We made a decision to dismiss students at 4:00 instead of 3:00, and are asking parents to pick up their children from the school.
Finally, we continue to support the hardworking men and women out there today, and they're doing everything they can to find the individuals responsible for this very tragic incident. Thank you.