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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Trump Fumbles On Foreign Policy Questions; Trump Slams "Gotcha" Foreign Policy Questions; Jailed Clerk Says, She Will Not Resign. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired September 4, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, Trump stumbles. Donald Trump lashing out at a radio host calling him, quote, "third rate after he fails to identify top terror leaders. Could this be Trump's Achilles heel?
Plus, the Kentucky clerk who refused to grant same-sex couple marriage licenses, tonight she's behind bars and defying, vowing to stay there as long as it takes.
And investigators pouring over multiple videos from the shooting of an Illinois police officer. Are they closer to naming the suspects? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening to you. I'm Pamela Brown in for Erin Burnett. And OUTFRONT tonight, Donald Trump stumped. The republican frontrunner unable to answer some key foreign policy questions. Accusing the questioner of simply trying to play gotcha. Take a listen to what happened when Trump was asked whether he could identify some of the top terror leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As far as the individual players, of course I don't know them. I've never meet them. I haven't been, you know, in a position to meet them. If they're still there, I will know them better than I know you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, tonight, Trump is firing back at the host of that program, Hugh Hewitt calling him a, quote, "third-rate announcer." And now, some of Trump's opponents are seizing on this fumble, saying it's just another example of why Trump's not fit to be commander-in- chief.
Dana Bash is OUTFRONT tonight with more. So, Dana, of course, the big question, will this make any difference with Trump supporters?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: With the supporters, Pam, I think it's very unlikely. But it's those on the fence that really matters. And that's really the vast majority of the republican electoral at the stage. His GOP opponents however, they are trying to seize on it. Take a listen.
BASH (voice-over): When you are the frontrunner and you can expect tough questions. A conservative radio host wanted to know if Donald Trump is ready to be commander-in-chief.
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: To know who Hassan Nasrallah is, and Zawahiri, and al-Julani, and al-Baghdad, do you know the players without a score card yet, Donald Trump?
TRUMP: No. You know, I will tell you honestly, I think by the time we get to office, they will all be changed. They will be all gone.
BASH: That after Trump seemed so confuse an ethnic groups, the Iraqi Kurds with the Iranian Quds force. An elite military unit said to target the west.
HEWITT: Are you familiar with General Soleimani?
TRUMP: Yes. Go ahead. Give me a little. Go ahead, tell me.
HEWITT: He runs the Quds forces.
TRUMP: Yes. Okay.
HEWITT: Do you expect his behavior --
TRUMP: The Kurds by the way have been horribly mistreated by us.
HEWITT: No, no, not the Kurds. The Quds forces, the Iranian revolutionary guards Quds forces, the bad guys.
TRUMP: Yes. Right.
BASH: Trump accused host Hugh Hewitt of gotcha questions.
TRUMP: When you are asking me about who, you know, who is running this, this, this, that is not -- I will be so good at the military, your head will spin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BASH: Yet, Carly Fiorina, another candidate from business, not politics, was on same program the same day answering with more fluency.
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, we know the general of Quds force has been a powerful tool of the Iranian regime to sow conflict.
BASH: And other candidates piled on.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You can't just flipped at least, say, well, you know, I will hire the best people and it will be done. You have to have some sense of what's at risk here. SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think if you
don't know the answer to those questions, you are not going to be able to serve as commander-in-chief.
BASH: Still, Trump is not the first candidate who doesn't deal regularly with geopolitical issues to struggle. Here is Ben Carson now surging in the polls earlier this year.
HEWITT: Should we have that sort of commitment that if Putin makes a move on the Baltic States we would go to war?
BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, if we have them involved in NATO. We need to convince them to get involved d in NATO and strengthen NATO.
HEWITT: Well, they are in NATO.
BASH: And no one can argue Ben Carson who was a pediatric neurosurgeon and performed groundbreaking surgeries is not bright. Donald Trump is a very smart man. And they are with polls show republican primary voters want outsiders who will bring a brand new perspective to Washington. But Pamela, those who do have experience, those who are running on that experience, they're hoping that voters will look at the reality TV star's interview and say, he's not ready for prime time.
BROWN: All right. Dana Bash, thank you so much. And a lot to discuss about this. So, let's bring in Jeffrey Lord, former political director, President Ronald Reagan. And Rory Cooper, served in President George W. Bush's administration. Thanks for coming on.
Rory, starting with you. So there, we heard it, Donald Trump saying that conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt asked gotcha questions. Do you think Trump has a right to be upset here?
[19:05:04] RORY COOPER, WORKED IN PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION FOR SEVEN YEARS: No. First off, Hugh Hewitt is a brilliant interviewer. He's going to do a brilliant job at the debate. And he was asking completely fair questions. Listen, Donald Trump is not running -- is not running to be dog catcher. He's running to be commander-in-chief. He has to have a broad idea of what's going on in the world. Voters will forgive whether or not he forgets what Soleimani's names is or he forgets who might be leading a current regime. But they won't forgive not knowing basic facts like -- Hezbollah in Hamas. Who is leading a proxy war in Syria? What is going on with troop movements in Iraq? And most importantly, who is directing strikes at U.S. troops? People are dying in the hands of these people. And if a commander-in-chief has to be prepared, he's going to make decisions based off of a broad idea of what's going on in the world. And if you can't do that, you shouldn't be running for president.
BROWN: And Marco Rubio echoed that sentiment as we've heard in the piece, saying that if you aren't able to answer these questions, you can't be commander-in-chief. What do you think, Jeffrey? Does Trump just got there fast?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I think if these -- if the standards I just heard were applied to George W. Bush, he would have never been president. Because of course, the same gotcha game was played with George W. Bush in 1999. He didn't know the same kind of answers.
COOPER: I remember that interview, Jeffrey. It was all names.
LORD: You know, before I came on here, I got an e-mail from a woman. I won't give her last name. Her name is Donna. She was a CNN interviewer. And she said, she's looking for somebody who has judgment, not who knows all of the details. I mean, to be perfectly candid, this sounds -- and I like Hugh Hewitt. I have been on a couple of times. I've been on his radio show. But in all candor, this sounds like he is pining for the Carter presidency where the President knows all the details of the Air Force budget but has no judgment about what the Soviet Union is about. What we need here is judgment, judgment, judgment. And if you know all the details of a train and you are telling people we're going to Boston but in fact the train is going to Miami, you know, the fact that you know all the details of the engine don't really help very much.
BROWN: Rory, does Trump have judgment?
COOPER: Well, first off, I remember that interview with George W. Bush in 1999. And he did get stumped on names which I said is forgivable.
BROWN: The President had touched -- President of Taiwan on some of the questions.
COOPER: Right. But he had an idea of what was going on in the world. And Donald Trump clearly does not. Judgment doesn't help when you have the joint-chiefs-of-staff and the National Security in a room in the National Security Council telling you different things and you have to make a decision based off of the information they're giving you.
LORD: He has to make a judgment.
COOPER: You have to make a judgement based off a broad sense of what's going on in the world. And if you are only getting the information at that moment from the joint chiefs and you don't have any idea of what's going on in the most volatile region in the world and arguably the most volatile time in our generation, then you are not going to be able to make a sensible judgment. This isn't a game. This is a high-stakes arena.
BROWN: But Rory and Jeffrey, I mean, you know, Trump has appealed to a lot of people is that, he's a good businessman, that he brings in good people. Rory, is that enough? Does he have to know all the answers if he is bringing in the best people?
COOPER: Well, first off, the current leadership in the military already exists. So, he is going to walk in on day one and have a very competent military infrastructure to be able to give him sound advice. But he is going to have to have some idea of how to use that advice. And, you know, right now, he is going in with a pretty naive vision of how you can be president. Yes, in business you have the ability to delegate and you have the ability for other people to make decisions and to be able to fail from time to time. But when you have your hand on the nuclear button, you have less room for failure. So, you have to have a little bit better judgment, a little bit better knowledge, a little bit base of support to be able to go in and make sound decisions.
BROWN: All right. So, Jeffrey --
LORD: What we are hearing here is --
BROWN: Go ahead.
LORD: What we're hearing here is classic insider Dom. That, you know, if you haven't been around Washington for decades, if you don't know all of this sort of stuff, you're not qualified to be president. And I would remind that the qualification to be president is one, you have to be 35 years old and a citizen of the country and a native born citizen of the country. That's it.
COOPER: Well, to combat that I will look at Carly Fiorina's interviewer. Carly did a really great job. She is coming from outside Washington and she was prepared to answer basic questions.
BROWN: But in fairness, Carly came after Donald Trump and heard that interview. In fairness. Go ahead.
COOPER: That's correct. I think she did a --
LORD: I read her interview with Hugh. And she was a little mushy around the edges, too. She didn't know something. And frankly, I don't criticize that. I don't criticize that at all. Otherwise, let's go back to President Bush. I mean, President Bush got up to speed pretty quick. And anybody who is in that job will. These are the kind of, you know, when Ronald Reagan showed up as president elect to meet with Jimmy Carter, Carter later complained that he had this long memo and this long list of things that he went over with Reagan and he in sense because Reagan didn't take any notes.
COOPER: Jeffrey, you will remember back in the --
[19:10:04] BROWN: Okay. I am going to have to ask you all to carry on this conversation offline. But gentlemen, thank you for coming on on a Friday right before the holiday weekend. We appreciate it.
LORD: You bet.
BROWN: Jeffrey Lord and Rory Cooper. See you later. And as Rory mentioned, Hugh Hewitt will be part of the CNN debate
with the republican candidates, that is Wednesday, September 16th, right here on CNN.
OUTFRONT next, Kentucky clerk Kim Davis still behind bars for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
Ahead, why her husband says she will stay in jail until the court agrees to a deal.
Plus, breaking news, Illinois police say they now have several videos that could lead them to the men who shot and killed Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz. We will have a live update from the man leading the investigation.
And up next, Donald Trump isn't the first candidate to stumble over a foreign policy question. Here is a bit of that 1999 interview we were just talking about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you name the president of Chechnya?
FMR. PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH (R), UNITED STATES: No. Can you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:14:15] BROWN: Tonight, Donald Trump himself against accusations that he is weak on foreign policy after stumbling through questions about the leaders of major terror organizations. But Trump is certainly not the first candidate to have trouble with some big foreign policy questions.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Away from the cheering crowd, Trump seemed stumped.
HEWITT: Are you familiar with General Soleimani?
TRUMP: Yes. But go ahead, give me a little, go ahead, and tell me.
HEWITT: He runs the Quds forces.
TRUMP: Yes. Okay. Right.
HEWITT: Do you expect him to --
TRUMP: I think the Kurds, by the way, have been horribly mistreated by us.
HEWITT: No, not the Kurds. The Quds forces, the Iranian revolutionary guys, the Quds forces, the bad guys.
FOREMAN: Trump says, he misheard. But he had hardly be the first frontrunner to stumble on foreign affairs. Back in 1999, George W. Bush was topping the republican polls when a reporter asked --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can name the president of Chechnya?
BUSH: No. Can you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you name the president of Taiwan?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you name the general who is in charge --
BUSH: Is this 50 questions?
FOREMAN: Bush was sharply criticized. But so was Hillary Clinton in 2008.
CLINTON: Well, I can tell you that he's a handpicked successor.
FOREMAN: She struggled badly when asked about the successor to Russia's Vladimir Putin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know his name?
CLINTON: Medvedev. Whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
FOREMAN: Republican Sarah Palin could not name the newspaper she relied on for her world view.
SARAH PALIN (D), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: I have read most of them again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, what one specifically? I'm curious --
PALIN: All of them. Any of them that have been in front of me over all these years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you name a few?
PALIN: I have a vast variety of sources.
FOREMAN: Her grasp of foreign affairs was soon a national joke.
TINA FEY, AS SARAH PALIN: And I can see Russia from my house.
FOREMAN: And even as recently as 2011, listen to Herman Cain.
HERMAN CAIN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When they ask me who is the president of Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan, I'm going to say, you know, I don't know. Do you know?
FOREMAN: Voters do not name foreign policy as one of their top priorities. They always rank it as they have in this election below thinks like immigration and the economy and healthcare. So, why does this matter? Because voters do care about competence. And if a candidate fails on that subject, he or she could be in trouble -- Pamela.
BROWN: All right. Tom Foreman, thank you.
And OUTFRONT tonight, chief political analyst Gloria Borger. Gloria, thanks for coming on.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure.
BROWN: So, we just heard in Tom's piece George W. Bush couldn't name a bunch of world leaders. He still won two presidential elections. So, the big question, will this even matter for Trump?
BORGER: Look, you know, it's a different world now than it was for George W. Bush. We live in a post-9/11 world. The American public sees beheadings by ISIS on television. They understand the stakes in the Middle East. You have a pending Iranian nuclear deal. So, I think it is very important terrain in this election. You know, having said that, will it stick? Will it matter for Donald Trump? You know, if you look at the republican field right now, Pamela, there isn't anybody except for say, Lindsey Graham who is a three term senator, who is a very accomplished on foreign policy, is a real hawk, but there isn't really anybody with a depth of experience. Senator Marco Rubio is on the Foreign Relations Committee. But he's a first term senator. So, it depends who Donald Trump, you know, really is up against.
BROWN: Well, if he is a republican nominee, what if he's up against the former Secretary of State --
BORGER: Well, that could be --
BROWN: -- in a general election? Could this be his Achilles hill?
BORGER: Sure, you know, look, Hillary Clinton is the most experienced foreign policy contender in the presidential race, period. She is a former secretary of state. Donald Trump has said she is the worst secretary of state in history. What he has got to be able to do is back that up with facts and explanations. And, you know, that's going to be a big hurdle for him. Because when he has been asked recently, you know, who are your foreign policy advisers, he said, you know, I watch a lot of them on the talk shows and I see some good ones. And it's very clear that he hasn't really taken that deep dive yet into foreign policy that when you are applying for the job of commander-in-chief is kind of a priority thing to do. Right? So, if you are up against Hillary Clinton and you're criticizing her that way, you better be prepared to back it up.
BROWN: All right. We will have to wait and see what happens. Gloria Borger, thank you so much as always for sharing your perspective.
BROWN: And OUTFRONT next, breaking news. New video has surfaced in the Illinois shooting of an Illinois Police Officer Joe Gliniewicz. My guest, the lead investigator in the manhunt.
And the Kentucky clerk behind bars because she won't grant marriage licenses to gay couples. Why she's being called a prisoner of conscience.
[19:23:20] BROWN: Tonight, the jailed Kentucky clerk who is refusing to grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples is speaking out. Kim Davis says, she has no intention of resigning. Even though a judge has ordered her to remain behind bars until she agrees to comply with the law. According to her lawyer, Davis has quote, "no remorse." As Davis remains defiant, her deputies are now complying with the court, orders giving gay couples as we see right here, the greenlight to get married.
Alexandra Field is OUTFRONT.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The six-times the charm for William Smith and James Yates, partners for ten years. They were cheered by their supporters. After finally getting their marriage license following five other tries in Rowan County, Kentucky.
WILLIAM SMITH, JR., DENIED MARRIAGE LICENSE FOR FIVE TIMES: Each time we were rejected. And each time we were told it was Kim Davis' decision. The last time we came was really, really hard because we had protesters outside. And as soon as we were rejected -- we had our hearts broken.
FIELD: Kim Davis couldn't reject the couple this time. The Rowan County clerk was sent to jail after a federal judge of Kentucky held her in contempt of court for refusing to issue licenses to same- sex couples despite a court order to do so.
MAT STAVER, ATTORNEY FOR KIM DAVIS: She can't violate her conscience. So, if that means she's going to be here for a longer period of time, she's prepared to be here.
FIELD: Davis remains defiantly opposed to authorizing same-sex marriages, even as she sits behind bars. JOE DAVIS, HUSBAND OF KIM DAVIS: If our government can bully
you, then they will make everybody bow down to what they want to do. If we don't take our country back, we're the one that puts them in there. They work for us.
FIELD: Davis rejected an offer to get out of jail if she agreed to authorize her deputies to issue the licenses or not interfere with the process. Five of those deputies are now giving out licenses that don't bear her name.
STAVER: She needs to have her name and her authority off of the license. It could be issued under the authority of the commonwealth of Kentucky.
FIELD: Davis' attorney says a marriage license without her name on it is not valid. But lawyers for the couples disagree, which means everything to William Smith and James Yates.
SMITH: We are very happy. We're elated, actually, that we got our license this time.
FIELD: It was earlier this summer that the Supreme Court made that historic decision allowing same-sex marriage nationwide. It was after that decision, however, that Davis ordered the six deputy clerks in her office not to issue any marriage licenses. After those deputy clerks were called to court and they watched the clerk be hauled away in the custody of the U.S. marshal, they were each questioned by a judge and then five of the six agreed that they would in fact follow the judge's orders and issue the marriage licenses. We asked Kim Davis' attorney about her reaction to the deputies' decision. He says that she doesn't harbor any personal resentment towards them. She feels that they were coerced to accept the judge's order. The sole holdout, the only deputy clerk who did not agree to uphold the judge's order was Kim Davis' son -- Pamela.
BROWN: Very interesting. And tonight, Kim Davis remains defiant as you say. Alexandra Field. Thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT next. Breaking news. Investigators pouring over multiple videos from the shooting of an Illinois police officer. Do the videos reveal who shot Lieutenant Gliniewicz? OUTFRONT tonight, the manhunt's lead investigator.
And this Texas man right here shot and killed by police with his hands in the air. New details about what happened before the shooting. My guest, the family's attorney.
[19:30:54] BROWN: Breaking news: the manhunt for three suspected cop killers. Investigators now say they have videos which could give them a much needed break in the case. Today, investigators confirming that the gun found at the scene did, in fact, belong to Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz. The lead investigator will join me in just a moment. But, first, Ryan Young is OUTFRONT.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New clues tonight in the massive manhunt for three cop killers. Officials now reviewing several new videos that may help identify the suspects.
CHIEF GEORGE FILENKO, COMMANDER, LAKE COUNTY MAYOR CRIME TASK FORCE: I think we're optimistic about all of these videos right now because they all -- they all come together chronologically. If they're not separate, they're not independent. They're different cameras putting a story line together.
YOUNG: Investigators say the videos come from multiple sources, including private residents, businesses and traffic cameras.
(on camera): The Department of Transportation cameras like this one that record intersections throughout the day here in Fox Lake. Usually, that video is erased after a few hours. But someone at the Department of Transportation decided to hold this video and has provided it to detectives.
And cameras are everywhere throughout this community. And investigators have confirmed to us that the FBI is actually using technology to stitch together a time line from before and after the murder to hopefully get more clues.
(voice-over): Investigators returned to the crime scene Friday afternoon hoping to discover new evidence while police are confirming that Fox Lake Officer Joe Gliniewicz' handgun was found at the scene. A source tells CNN it had been fired.
FILENKO: It was found near the lieutenant's remains. I can't reveal how many times it was fired.
YOUNG: We've learned police are asking for DNA samples from everyone they interview, hoping to find a link to the suspects. Authorities are offering a $50,000 reward for any information that leads to an arrest.
With thousands of tourists expected in Fox Lake this Labor Day weekend, an arrest couldn't come soon enough.
BOB HARPLING, BOATER: I think everyone will come -- everyone cares deeply. It's a bad situation. But I think the people still come out and enjoy themselves. Maybe keep their eyes open. I don't think even he would want us to stop.
YOUNG (on camera): And just 200 yards down this road where that officer was killed, you can see the work still continues right now. In fact, investigators are telling us they're using machetes, metal detectors and specially trained dogs to look for more clues -- Pamela.
BROWN: Certainly, all hands on deck. Thank you so much, Ryan. We appreciate it.
And joining me now is the commander of the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force, Chief George Filenko, and the public information officer for the Lake County Sheriff's Office, Detective Christopher Covelli.
Thank you for coming back on the show. We appreciate it.
And, Chief Filenko, I'm going to go to you first, because the big question is, how do you actually watch any of the videos that you say investigators now have, now that we're learning there's more than one video we found out about yesterday?
FILENKO: No, I haven't actually reviewed the videos yet. We're still waiting for the FBI's tech lab to put these videos together.
As you can imagine, some of these videos are very lengthy in time. They could span as much as 8 to 24 hours. They're trying to decrease the size or the length of the videos and put them in a chronological order. Once that's done, we're going to sit down and start going through all of that.
BROWN: What have you been told about the videos that makes you believe they are, as you said today, even more relevant to this case?
FILENKO: The description initially given out by the officer, of course, is vague. He only described three individual, two male whites and a male black. These videos apparently are showing images of subjects fitting that description within the time frame of the murder.
BROWN: Detective Covelli, it has been nearly four days since this shooting.
[19:35:05] And maybe there will be some big leads from these videos. But we don't know yet. Do you have any doubts whatsoever that you are looking for the right people here, these two white men and one black man?
DET. CHRISTOPHER COVELLI, LAKE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: We don't have any doubts at this point. Lieutenant Gliniewicz when he made the radio traffic of the description, which is very standard protocol when you are a police officer is calling out with any suspicious person, he called out the sex and race of the individuals. That was one of his last transmissions. We don't have any doubt we're looking for two male whites and one male black.
BROWN: Chief, you said the suspects you believe are very dangerous. Obviously, you believe they killed an officer. You also said the community's safety is not in jeopardy.
But how can you be so sure if these three suspects are on the loose?
FILENKO: That's a good question. One of the things that the local police department in cooperation with the sheriff's office as well as the state police have increased a police presence within community, taking into consideration that this is a holiday weekend. They are expecting several thousand people to come in, utilize the chain of lakes and some of the other facilities within the community. So, I think a large police presence should offset any concern by the community.
BROWN: But these guys could still be in the community, right? The description is so vague, two white men and one black man.
FILENKO: That's correct. We're not going to discount that. We believe they are in the area.
They may not necessary -- they may not be necessarily in the community of Fox Lake. They could be in any one of the surrounding communities. We're hoping that at some point, once we get a better handle on the videos to start looking at the images and perhaps releasing images to the public.
BROWN: Detective Covelli, do you have any specific evidence to indicate why you believe they're still in the area?
COVELLI: You know, like the Chief Filenko mentioned earlier today, often times criminals will hide in plain sight. Meaning, they don't necessarily up and flee when they have committed a crime. So, we don't have any indication that they have fled the area. We don't have necessarily any indication that they are right here. But statistics show us often times in situations like this, criminals hide in plain sight.
BROWN: Chief, you said the officer's gun was found at the crime scene. Do you find it odd that the suspects didn't take the gun with them?
FILENKO: That's not necessarily unusual. Again, when you have a heinous incident like this occur, who knows what kind of thought process is going through the suspects' mind. You know, fight or flight type of issues. So, no, that's not unusual.
BROWN: How many bullets were fired from the gun?
FILENKO: I'm not at liberty to reveal that at this point.
BROWN: Does it appear that the gun was used for self-defense or that the suspects actually used the gun to kill the officer?
FILENKO: You know, again, I'm prohibited because of the criminal investigative aspect of this case. Sorry, I can't answer that question.
BROWN: I understand you have an ongoing investigation.
But can you at least tell us, were there any signs of a struggle at all?
FILENKO: No, again, that's part of the investigative process. That's information that we're not prepared to release at this point. BROWN: I know it's still very early on. But you have had teams
there collecting forensic evidence. Are there any footprints, DNA or fingerprints left at the scene that may be helpful?
FILENKO: Again, there's been significant evidence collected. I will tell you that today, our evidence technicians were at the scene once again. And they did recover a piece of significant evidence that wasn't found in the last few days.
But I can't reveal exactly what that is or any of the other evidence, because it's extremely relevant that we keep some of this information away from the public.
BROWN: But can you just give us a vague sense, was it a footprint? Was it a strand of hair? Anything like that? Can you give us a sense? If this is so significant.
FILENKO: No, again, it's a criminal investigation. And it's a process. I understand there's frustration there. I get this question asked repeatedly. I will give you the same answer that I don't want to jeopardize this investigation and any future prosecution by revealing any type of evidence at this point.
[19:40:01] BROWN: But you do believe significant evidence was found at that crime scene today?
FILENKO: Yes. I will confirm that.
BROWN: OK. Chief George Filenko, Detective Christopher Covelli, thank you very much. Have a nice weekend.
COVELLI: Thank you.
FILENKO: Thank you.
BROWN: Let's bring in former FBI special agent, Jonathan Gilliam.
You heard it there, Jonathan. I asked a lot of questions.
JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Sure do.
BROWN: Not many answers when it comes to what was at the crime scene, so forth.
BROWN: What do you make of that, that they are reluctant to share details?
GILLIAM: I think it's typical of law enforcement. They have an ongoing investigation. They're not going to give out a lot of details.
I think one thing that they could start to give out a little bit -- I mean, look, I understand that the chief -- I think they're doing a great job. Their press conferences have been some of the best I have seen, you know, in recent times, with different things that are going on.
I think the public needs to be utilized more than they are, because of the fact that they really don't have a lot to go on while they get the cameras set up so they can see the videos and what actually happened. But I'm thinking it's probably one of two things.
These individuals are either there to basically do something. In other words, there was something being delivered, they were doing something in the warehouse, possibly a robbery of copper. They steal a lot of copper in the mornings or a robbery on a house. They could have been armed and more aggressive when an officer showed up. Then they ran and then attacked him.
The other thing it could have been is that they were just -- they had warrants. They didn't want to be seen. That to me would explain a little bit more if they did use the officer's weapon on him, which happens more often than you would think.
BROWN: Very, very quickly I want to ask, the video they have had for more than 24 hours isn't available yet. There isn't a description to give the public. Is that unusual it would take this long for a crucial clue?
GILLIAM: I think the detective should have looked at it before it was sent off.
BROWN: But there were some technical issues. We know that DHS is looking at it. So, hopefully, we will get results back soon.
Thank you so much, Jonathan Gilliam. Appreciate it.
GILLIAM: You got it.
BROWN: And OUTFRONT up next, this Texas man shot and killed by police, his family now speaking out. Their attorney, coming up.
And Jeanne Moos proofing most everything Donald Trump touches turns to gold. Even his escalators.
[19:46:40] BROWN: Tonight, the family of the San Antonio man shot by deputies is speaking out. Gilbert Flores' family telling OUTFRONT that the morning of the shooting, Flores appeared happy. He and his wife had a baby girl just a few weeks before. But police say that the couple got into a violent encounter that brought sheriffs deputies to the scene. Sources tell CNN, video of the incident shows Flores charging at police with a knife in his hand.
But the only video that's been public appears to show Flores with his hands up when he was shot. We want to warn our viewers, the video is disturbing.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS) BROWN: Joining me to discuss is the attorney for the Gilbert
Flores family, Thomas Henry.
Thanks for coming back on.
There is a second video we just talked about. You have been trying to get access to that, unsuccessfully. What have the authorities been telling you?
THOMAS HENRY, ATTORNEY FOR GILBERT FLORES' FAMILY: They are performing their investigation. They want to get all of their evidence together for purposes of presenting it to a grand jury. During that process, they generally have a procedure where they are not going to turn over evidence.
In this case, they have certainly made statements. The sheriff has and law enforcement have about what's on the second video without providing the video.
BROWN: So, we heard statements he had a knife in his hand. What can you tell us about the fact that Mr. Flores was holding a knife during the confrontation with police?
HENRY: Well, the video that we see now, whether or not he is holding a knife at that time, that's in question because we cannot tell. But the issue of whether he is or isn't holding a knife --
BROWN: But was he holding a knife during the confrontation?
HENRY: Well, that confrontation occurred at various different times while the officers were out there.
BROWN: Did he hold a knife during any of those various times?
HENRY: I think there was an initial interaction with an officer and Mr. Flores where the knife was not used to stab an officer. But the butt of the knife may have been used in an altercation.
At the time he is shot though, the issue of the knife being in his hand or not is still an issue. But whether the knife is in his hand or not, there's an issue as to whether or not his aggression had stopped. And that's the issue. Did his aggression stop whereby officers should not have used that lethal force?
BROWN: And that is a big question. Because, clearly, in that first video, he has his hands up and the officer shoots. Playing on the other side of this what the officers would say is state of mind. We had reason to believe he was a threat based on how he lunged at them with this knife, the butt of the knife, as you say, and hit one of the officers with the butt of the knife. Doesn't that help explain their state of mind at that point?
HENRY: Well, I think the issue is going to be whether or not when his hands are up in the air, would you objectively and subjectively believe at that time that he was not a threat because his aggressive activity had stopped? And so, that's the key issue, taking that snapshot of time at that moment.
BROWN: And you had no reason to believe he had a knife in his hand when he was putting his hands up?
HENRY: I believe when he was putting his hands up, that issue is yet to be determined, because we have not seen the video.
[19:50:06] BROWN: Do you think you think talking to your clients that he was surrendering peacefully though?
HENRY: Well --
BROWN: Because your client -- the wife was there at the scene?
HENRY: Well, I have talked to a number of people at the scene. I have actually met with the entire family. And I have met with an individual that viewed parts of that incident from a window in that home, when it was happening.
And so -- that particular view for that witness, there are some question as but the visibility but the, there is no doubt that there was a domestic call, the officers responded appropriately to a domestic call, but, but there is again, that gigantic issue about whether or not his aggressive conduct had stopped when his hand were raised.
And I think that's why you're playing this particular piece tonight, because the public is concerned about whether or not he was being aggressive. His appearance clearly is that he was not at the moment he was shot from this video. The other video will help provide more information and evidence that comes in will also be helpful
BROWN: But authorities say they're not going to release that anytime soon, it sounds like. But thank you for coming on. And we understand you are in the process of preparing a civil suit as well. Thank you.
HENRY: You're very welcome.
BROWN: Thomas Henry, appreciate it.
And now, I want to bring in retired NYPD detective, Harry Houck.
Thank you for coming on, Harry.
So, Flores -- we were talking about, appeared to have his hand up. Do you think the deputies had any right to shoot?
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, like the counselor said before. We have to wait until we find out more information.
Now, when that gentleman had his hands up we could not see his left hand, all right? So maybe there was a weapon in his left hand. I can't tell. But what's very interesting about this, though, Pamela, the fact that both officers perceived a threat almost simultaneously. That tells me something here.
This isn't like, police officers -- you know, one officer shooting because he wants to kill somebody, and another officer not. So we got two officers receiving the same threat at the same time.
And what a lot of people don't understand also is the fact that if you are within 20 feet of somebody that's got a knife. So, if I have a knife in my left hand, I am telling you to drop that knife. And you don't drop it. All right, now you are an imminent threat. And within, within about 20 second the I could be on you and killing you that fast.
So, as a police officer, if I've tell you to drop the knife. You are that close to me. And you don't drop it. You are getting shot.
BROWN: But, in fairness. They don't appear to be standing within arm's length. It doesn't appear in the first individually he is moving toward them.
HOUCK: Right. But also the fact that we're trained as officers, between 21 or 22 feet. If somebody has got a knife that if you don't have your weapon pulled, that you, as a police officer can be killed by that person with a knife. That's how quickly that occurs. All police officers are trained that way.
So, it looks like they were 10 feet apart.
BROWN: Harry, there is still a lot more to learn about this case for sure.
Harry Houck, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos on what may be the most famous escalator in America.
[19:57:45] BROWN: Donald Trump's rise up the polls famously began with a trip down a gold-plated escalator.
Here's Jeanne Moos with tonight's money and power.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He arrives on his own chopper. He arrives on his own plane. But this was perhaps Donald Trump's most celebrated arrival --
When he escalated himself into the presidential race.
CONAN O'BRIEN, COMEDIAN: It is the most momentous announcement in your entire career. I want to come in on an escalator.
JON STEWART, COMEDIAN: Hey, only losers walk. Presidents take stair-force one.
MOOS: The escalator's own parody Twitter account tweeted, the ego has landed, using an escalator. Some one added elevator music to the escalator video and made a ten-minute loop.
Even Homer Simpson rode escalator behind Trump, whose hair sucked Homer into his scalp.
Since Trump announced, the escalator's fame has risen.
In interview after interview --
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to make a lot of improvement.
MOOS: You can see folks riding it behind Trump taking pictures of him and even of the escalator itself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Picture of the escalator, but nothing close --
MOOS: The escalator shares the atrium of trump tower with cascading wall of water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you want to ride the escalator?
MOOS: How was the ride?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was something else.
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I would wear a crown if I were him, just like --
MOOS: The campaign will have its ups and downs. But the escalator will have them simultaneously. It's a selfie magnet.
Is the escalator in there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There you go.
MOOS: What do you have?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Donald hairdo, see?
MOOS: Oh, you do have a Donald hairdo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ready? Three, two, one.
MOOS: Holy escalator, look at the light emanating from that thing.
That is some escalator, escalating right up to heaven.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sure is. MOOS: With or without the stop at the White House.
Jeanne Moos, CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like god. I got the chills.
MOOS: New York.
BROWN: Well, thank you so much for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown. Have a fantastic holiday week end.
"AC360" starts now.