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American Woman Killed in Nepal; Humanitarian Crisis; Hillary Falling in Polls. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 7, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:03]

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Now, John Kasich was just there. He just walked in that Labor Day parade in Milford, New Hampshire. He was one of three presidential candidates in fact campaigning there today.

That's also where you will find our Sunlen Serfaty.

And, Sunlen, I hear you just spoke with the governor.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana.

I wanted to get the governor's reaction to these polls numbers. Quietly, he has been building really a solid foundation here in the state really and investing a lot of money, but, most importantly, a lot of time outpacing the other candidates here.

I think this is a little validating for the campaign, his campaign noting that he really has put in the time. But I did catch up with him a few minutes ago as he walked right behind me here in the Milford parade. Here is how he reacted to his poll numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think they have been kind of creeping up all along. It's fine. It is a long road, early stages.

SERFATY: But do you still have a lot of ground though to cover with Donald Trump?

KASICH: Oh, I don't think about that. Just I have a lot of ground to cover to meet a lot of people in New Hampshire. That's the key.

SERFATY: You're confident you will be making gains?

KASICH: Well, I am going to do my best. You know, just try your hardest, see what happens. It's better to be up than down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And for any candidate, of course it's better to be up than down. That's definitely true in campaigns. But that last part, Ana, really struck me, because as he goes up, Jeb Bush is going down. They're really fighting for the same type of support here in New Hampshire, the same sort of establishment voters looking for that establishment candidate. That really struck me from that.

CABRERA: Also, when you look at the ups and downs, same thing happening on the Democratic side. Bernie Sanders going way up, grabbing the lead from Hillary Clinton. He is now up by nine points, which means she's down. It is a big turnaround since July. What are Democrats there saying about this?

SERFATY: It is interesting, because Clinton and the Hillary Clinton campaign has really taken pains recently to downplay the rise of Sanders, even though they have seen it happen. Certainly, these polls confirm that. He took the lead here in New Hampshire, and he is on the rise in Iowa. The Clinton campaign saying they always expected this to be a long primary, and Clinton herself just yesterday started using the line on the campaign trail that she knew it was going to be a hard election.

She's choosing though to really look forward, really starting to engage with Republican candidates, trying to look forward to the general election, rather than focusing on the primary. I did speak with Senator Bernie Sanders when he was here at this parade too just moments ago, and he said that he welcomes it. He's happy, but there's a long road ahead -- Ana.

CABRERA: Sunlen Serfaty live on the ground for us, we so appreciate it in New Hampshire.

Let's talk more about these poll numbers and the overall race with two CNN political commentators. Peter Beinart is the contributing editor for "The Atlantic" and "National Journal." Jeffrey Lord is joining us, a former political director in the Reagan White House and more recently he has spoken out and written out in support of Donald Trump. Full disclosure there.

Peter, I start with Hillary Clinton. We just saw she has lost 19 points, she has lost her lead there in New Hampshire. And then in Iowa, she's still leading, but she's lost 11 points there. She's in the decline, according to this NBC/Marist poll. Who do you think is to blame?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Partly it's Bernie Sanders' authenticity. Whether you agree with him or not, he has been the same throughout his entire political career. He says exactly what he believes. And that's appealing to voters.

You can see the hunger for authenticity in both the Republican and the Democratic side. The other reason is that in the Democratic Party there's a lot of frustration with the sense of -- with corporate power, with the power of Wall Street, with corruption in Washington. This is what Elizabeth Warren tapped into. Bernie Sanders is now winning over that Elizabeth Warren coalition.

CABRERA: Why isn't Hillary?

BEINART: Hillary is considered to be a much more scripted candidate. She's a much more scripted candidate. Although she's running left now, she has been in different places over the course of her political career, so she is not considered too be as much of a crusader.

She is considered closer to Wall Street than Bernie Sanders is and so he's winning over the left flank of -- at least the white part of the left flank of the Democratic Party.

CABRERA: Jeffrey, some have said this is looking like 2008 all over again. Do you feel like President Obama and Bernie Sanders have a lot in common? Are they similar?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they're similar in the sense that they're not Hillary. And Peter is right about this I think with Hillary.

The one thing I would add -- and Bernie Sanders -- the one thing I would add, Hillary, as we know, a few weeks ago in her poll, when voters were asked to free-associate a description, the number one descriptor was liar.

Whatever else one wants to say about Bernie Sanders, I think everybody agrees he is an honest soul. I think that plays into this as well, his character, experience, et cetera. He may be far to the left, but he is what he is, and there's no maneuvering around on this. He has no questions on his integrity, at least that I can see.

[15:05:05]

CABRERA: Peter, if you were to give advice to Hillary, if you were an adviser for her campaign, what's the strategy or the priorities at this point?

BEINART: I don't think they need to panic. The thing about Iowa and New Hampshire is, they're both overwhelmingly white states.

Where Hillary Clinton has a big advantage is amongst Latinos and African-Americans, which you see in the states that follow like South Carolina and Iowa. I think she needs to play to her strength. She is not an inspiring speaker, but she's very well grounded in policy. When she talks about the details of policy, she comes off as well- prepared to be president.

I think the more they go to that core strength, the stronger they are.

CABRERA: Let's talk about the Republican race real quick and, like, the polls there. You can see Trump well on top. I'm sure you're pretty happy about that, Jeffrey. He has a seven-point advantage in Iowa right now, a 16-point lead in New Hampshire.

Ben Carson is a solid second place in Iowa. But you can see in New Hampshire, John Kasich has come way up. Scott Walker and Jeb Bush on the other hand are on the decline, particularly Scott Walker when you look at that Iowa poll, where he was at one point the leader. Now he is like way, way low in the pack. What is he doing wrong and Jeb Bush as well for that matter?

LORD: Well, I think that Governor Walker, who is a good solid conservative, I think he has in this particular cycle the unfortunate liability of being a sitting governor.

And while a lot of conservatives think he's been a good governor, he is a governor. And it is very clear when you look at the response to Donald Trump and Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, and I would even add in another -- one officeholder -- that would be Ted Cruz, who has been very much Mr. Anti-Establishment -- I mean, their combined support regularly now is starting to show up at over 50 percent.

Sometimes, it's as high as 60 percent. I think that really puts a disadvantage at folks, governors, incumbent governors and people who are identified with the party establishment. Certainly that's worked against Jeb Bush. And if John Kasich sort of pushes Bush out of the way, he, too, will sort of become the representative of that, fairly or unfairly.

(CROSSTALK)

BEINART: Yes. I think Walker has got caught in between. He is not enough of an outsider for the folks who want a Trump or a Carson, but he's not enough -- he's not proved himself to be a very effective, serious insider establishment candidate either. He has gotten tremendous amount of media ridicule for the frankly unprepared and off-the-wall statements he has made about building a wall on the Canadian border, and he said he didn't know if Barack Obama was Christian.

He doesn't have nearly as strong a personality as a Donald Trump or a Ted Cruz, and also even compared to someone like Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush, he just doesn't seem to come off as nearly as well-qualified, as well-prepared on issues.

CABRERA: Speaking of personality, though, Jeffrey, you look at Ben Carson, who has really kind of flown under the radar through a lot of this campaigning. What is it about him, that he has gotten a lot of that support we're seeing in the polls?

LORD: Right. He's never held elective office a day in his life.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: That's the bottom line.

LORD: Right. And like Donald Trump, he's highly accomplished in his chosen profession.

Nobody is going to dispute that Ben Carson is not a very accomplished physician. Heavens, he was so well thought of, they made a movie of him a few years ago, a movie of his life. It's very inspiring. I think combined with the fact that he has never run for office, this is a very, very popular thing this year, and I think that accounts for this.

CABRERA: Peter, I do want to ask you about Joe Biden, because we saw him out there with this zest today. He seemed energized, he seemed jovial, out doing a Labor Day parade and speech, and this follows last week where he sounded so somber and so sad and uncertain. Do you feel like this week is a turning point in terms of the direction he is leaning?

BEINART: I am pretty skeptical about the idea of a Biden candidacy. Joe Biden is a good campaigner. He always has been, going back to 1988. He's a good speaker. He is a good campaigner.

But he doesn't have a message that I think really contrasts clearly with Hillary. The reason that Bernie Sanders is doing well, he has a very clear message that contrasts with Hillary. The truth is, Joe Biden and Hillary historically have been in largely the same place. If liberal Democrats are suspicious of Hillary because she is too close to Wall Street or because she was too tough on crime, those same things apply to Joe Biden.

I just don't really see the ideological niche that he occupies here.

CABRERA: Jeffrey, from a GOP perspective, do you want to see him enter the race?

LORD: Well, sure, the more the merrier. We have 17 people. I think they could have at least one more over there. That would bring a grand total of, what, four or five or six.

The thing about Joe Biden that is so poignant here is -- and I have gone back and taken a real look at this. From time to time in American history, we have seen politicians be affected by tragedy that was totally unexpected, and for better generally it tends to cast them as sympathetic figures and makes them more popular.

[15:10:05]

And that's just been sort of a hard fact. The late Senator Charles Percy's daughter was murdered when he was on the campaign trail. He won the election and he was behind going into that. John Connally was shot in President Kennedy's car on November 22, and he served as governor of Texas until he didn't want to do it anymore and had something of a national career after that.

You know, this is a terrible thing to happen to the Biden family, but it certainly -- if he has the energy to do this, I think, as witnessed that parade in Pittsburgh today, a lot of people do like him and he is very popular.

CABRERA: Who is harder to beat for the Democrats if you are the GOP?

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: I would say Joe Biden.

CABRERA: You think Joe Biden.

And what do you think?

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: Go ahead.

BEINART: Sorry.

I think Biden is more animated than Hillary Clinton, but he's also a lot more erratic. Let's remember that. Hillary Clinton is a lot more disciplined than Joe Biden. Joe Biden has a long history of putting his foot in his mouth. I think we have -- and also Joe Biden hasn't gotten the kind of scrutiny that he will get if he jumps in the race.

Right now, he is getting overwhelmingly favorable press coverage because people like the idea of a more interesting race. But once he goes in, there's a lot in the Biden record for people to take a shot at. Once that happens, I think you will find he will probably be running third after Hillary and Bernie Sanders in a lot of these early states.

CABRERA: We should have an answer yes or no on the Biden front here in the next few weeks. Peter Beinart and Jeffrey Lord, our thanks to you both. Appreciate it. And happy Labor Day. Thanks for being here.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: A reminder, we have the first CNN Republican debate coming up on September 16. It's at the Reagan Presidential Library in California. We also want to know what you want to hear from the candidates. You can tweet us your debate questions using #CNNdebate.

Up next, CNN on the front lines of the human crisis unfolding now, live pictures on the Serbia-Hungary border and thousands of migrants fleeing war-torn countries. They're heading to safer ground in places like Europe. We will have a live report on that just ahead.

Plus, murdered in Nepal. A young American woman went to help in the aftermath of the earthquake there, her family now calling her death a senseless loss. We will have the latest on this troubling story.

Plus, new developments involving Kentucky clerk Kim Davis, who is spending the holiday weekend behind bars for refusing to issue same- sex marriage licenses. We will speak with one of her attorneys who just met with her in jail and filed a new motion. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:35]

CABRERA: Let's talk more about this escalating refugee crisis in Europe which has reached a critical point. Tens of thousands of refugees have flooded into Germany and Austria in the past couple of days, and this influx is far from over. Thousands more migrants are fleeing their war-torn countries, and they're looking for safer ground.

Germany officials are begging their partners to open their borders to help ease some of the burden. Even the pope is now urging Catholic parishes around the world to take in these families.

CNN international correspondent Arwa Damon is along the border between Serbia and Hungary, where we have seen refugees there stranded in overcrowded camps now -- Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana.

And this is one of the holding sites. Technically, hypothetically speaking, an individual should not be spending more than two to three hours here, but a lot of these people have ended up spending two to three days. And I can tell you it is bitterly cold right now.

But there have been a few small improvements. All of these tents that you see did not exist earlier in the day. They were just brought out by a bunch of volunteers, along with very vital things at this stage like blankets, clothing for the children, warmer jackets, hoodies. You also have food assistance set up over there.

People earlier in the day, though, were so angry at having to wait out in these conditions with little to no shelter that they actually tried to push through the police. They failed to do so, but they were so frustrated, it really shows their level of determination to just want to keep going.

You also have some medical aid that has been brought in, a lot of medicines to do with colds, fevers. The children especially are getting very, very sick because the temperatures do drop quite significantly at night.

And then they're also treating a lot of foot injuries, things like blisters and sores, because so many people that are making this very long and difficult trek, they're not doing it in the right shoes. And a lot of times, Ana, they end up walking seven to eight hours. Another thing as well is that we finally saw U.N. aid-style representatives on site here and they're telling us that they are now going to be building, they hope, in the next few days some sort of a shelter.

And suffice to say that those kinds of small improvements to the conditions that these refugees are being subjected to along the way, they are very, very much needed.

CABRERA: I am curious because I know you have been talking with a lot of the refugees over the past several weeks and I imagine they're living kind of day by day. But what is their endgame, or where is their endgame?

DAMON: Well, a lot of them want to end up in Western Europe and a bulk of them do want to end up in Germany, for a number of reasons.

Either they have relatives there, or, first and foremost, because they do realize that Germany at least is a nation that has said that it will welcome them. These are people who left the war zones of Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The vast majority of those who you see out here did not leave their homes because they had a choice. They left their homes because they believed that if they or their children stayed back in their homelands, they would have ended up dead anyway, so why not take the risk and bring them here to Europe?

[15:20:06] They are people who have lost everything. Some, if they're lucky,

carry a little token with them that reminds them of home, but most really come with nothing or they lose what possessions they have along the way.

And all they're really looking for is a future, any sort of future, because basic opportunities like making a living, getting an education, having a dignified life where human rights are respected, those aren't things that exist for them back in their homelands. What they're doing is hoping to find them in Europe.

CABRERA: Doesn't seem like they're asking for much at least. Arwa Damon, thank you very much.

What's behind this massive surge of refugees, and why are some countries more desirable to them than others?

Let's talk about this with Kimberly Dozier, CNN global affairs analyst.

Kimberly, you look at the totality of this tragic situation, what strikes you?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: What strikes me is the number of people moving right now.

And I just spoke to a U.N. official who said they have been trying to get their arms around it. They talked to the refugees and asked why this surge. Now, about half the surge is coming from Syria, both Syrian refugees who are already displaced and they were in camps in Lebanon and Turkey and Jordan, and a lot of them just got to the point where, you know, they provide primary school in these U.N. refugee camps, but they don't provide high schooling.

These people, they couldn't work there, the kids weren't getting an education. And the other thing that started happening both for them and for people inside Syria is they heard rumors that Europe was going to tighten up its immigration rules. So there was this thought that if you didn't move now, if you didn't take this opportunity, you were going to be stuck for good.

CABRERA: That explains why now. I know you in the past have been in the middle of a past refugee crisis in Kosovo. How difficult is it logistically to help the sheer number of people you mention in a movement like this?

DOZIER: Well, one of the hardest things is just to figure out how many people you have got to get -- take care of and get them initially food and water and tents put up, so that they have a roof over their head, and then figure out, all right, where are you going to move them from there?

Is the country where they have stopped going to accept them or are you going to keep them there temporarily before moving them on? Some of these temporary situations can become permanent pretty fast. And then you have got a situation where you have got families of 20 living in one tent 10 feet from the next tent, and they want to move on. The next country won't take them, they're stuck there, resentment builds, then that becomes possible fuel for things like militancy.

So, that's what some of these countries really need to think about and avoid.

CABRERA: Why do you think there hasn't been a more coordinated effort to address this in Europe?

DOZIER: Well, in Europe, the way the rules go, the way they're set up now is that the first country where the refugees arrive, they're -- and the migrants, they're supposed to be screened, processed, and then taken in there. That's not fair to those countries in terms of resources.

It costs billions of dollars to take care of some of these camps. So what Europe is trying to do is come up with a new fair system. Some of the countries say, OK, we have taken our share, we're not going to take more. Others are being told, hey, but you have to. This is going to take I think several months, not just that one meeting in mid-September, to resolve.

CABRERA: Germany has an idea of setting up some kind of a quota system for countries to take in refugees. Is that realistic?

DOZIER: It may be the only humane way to deal with this in the end and the way to sort of use the force of public opinion and international law to tell some of these countries, hey, we're taking this much as per our population, so you have to as well.

But some of these European countries are economically struggling and they're going to say, fine, we will take them if you give us money. I think you are going to see a lot of horse-trading like that going on in the coming weeks and months.

CABRERA: Kim Dozier, thanks for helping us understand. We really appreciate it.

DOZIER: Thank you.

CABRERA: Coming up, the death of an American woman is sending shockwaves across Nepal -- what the man accused of killing her did just after police say he confessed.

But, first, your career or your religion? A Muslim flight attendant's job is now on the line after she refused to sell alcohol to passengers. Is her decision protected under the law?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:49]

CABRERA: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And we have some breaking news in the case of that county clerk who is refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses in Kentucky. Well, attorneys for Kim Davis now say they just filed an emergency request demanding the governor of Kentucky set her free. This comes just one day after they filed some papers to appeal the contempt of court ruling that landed her in jail now five days ago.

Joining me now is one of her attorneys, Horatio Mihet. He's also the chief litigation attorney for Liberty Counsel.

Horatio, thanks for spending some time with us on this Labor Day.

I know there have been two legal moves your team has made on Kim's behalf in the last couple of days. Can you explain how this emergency order is different from the appeal filed yesterday?

HORATIO MIHET, ATTORNEY FOR KIM DAVIS: Yes. Thank you, Ana, for having me with you this afternoon.

The emergency petition that we filed today asks the court to order Governor Beshear to immediately provide to Kim Davis what she's entitled to receive under the Constitution and the law. And that's a simple commonsense accommodation for her sincerely held beliefs that would allow her to return to work and that would allow her to preserve her conscience, while at the same time others can comply with the edicts of the Supreme Court.

CABRERA: You're outside the Carter County jail, where Davis is being held. You have just met with her. What is she saying?