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Kentucky County Clerk Out of Jail; Hillary Clinton Speaks out; Wendy Williams Comments on Donald Trump. Aired 10-11p ET.
Aired September 8, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: She turns away gay couples who want to get married. She goes to jail for five days. Now, Kim Davis is out. But that's not the end of the story.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. The Kentucky clerk getting a rock star reception on her release today. But will she back down?
Also, your day in Trump. I want you to listen to what the $10 billion man just told Bill O'Reilly about the Black Lives Matter movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Donald Trump, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think they're trouble. I think they're looking for trouble. I looked at a couple of the people that were interviewed from the group. I saw them with hate coming down the street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, tonight, just a week away from our big CNN debate, I'm going to talk to the man who stumped Trump. He'll be part of that debate, as well.
Plus, an emotional Hillary Clinton speaks out. And wait until you hear what Wendy Williams says about Donald Trump.
Let's begin with the extraordinary scene at Kentucky. When Kim Davis walked out of jail and onto a stage with her husband, her attorney and presidential hopeful, Mike Huckabee. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Would you please help me welcome to the stage Kim Davis.
KIM DAVIS, REFUSED TO ISSUE SAME SEX MARRIAGE LICENSE: Thank you all so much. I love you all so very much.
(CHANTING) DAVIS: I just want to give God the glory. His -- His people have
rallied and you are a strong people. We serve a living God. Who knows exactly where each and every one of us is at. Just keep on pressing. Don't let down. Because He is here. And he's worthy. I love you guys. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That was Kim Davis. Again, earlier today. Matt Bevin was at rally celebrating her release from jail today. His republican candidate for governor of Kentucky and he joins me now.
Good evening to you, Mr. Bevin. Kim Davis was released from jail today. You don't think that she ever should have been there, even though she was define the law of the land?
MATT BEVIN, (R) KENTUCKY GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: I do agree with that, Don. And I appreciate you having me on tonight. The reality is what law did she break? I would challenge anyone to state that. What's interesting is that on July 10th, long before this would ultimately turn into a carnival, was unfolded.
I put forward a solution. Because that's what governors do and people who aspire to be governor. I put forth a solution on July 10th, to resolve this situation so that all parties could be treated under the law.
I'm running against the man who's the Attorney General of the state who if he had his brothers, she would still be in jail tonight. That's the difference. That something we ought to talk about as this interview unfolds.
LEMON: Well, the Supreme Court said that marriage -- that same-sex marriage was the law of the land and she refused to serve -- to get marriage licenses is not only to same-sex couples, but to everyone. The Fed said she was breaking a law. That was a law of the land.
[22:05:00] So, that's the law that she broke. But I want to show, this is what you tweeted. Your support of Kim Davis when she was still in jail. You said, "I was honored to have Kim Davis and her husband ask for me to visit them in the Carter County Jail today." And then you said. "We are K-Y," we are Kentucky.
LEMON: What did she say to you when you visited her?
BEVIN: I'm not going to share that information. I've had others ask me the same thing. Out of fairness to her and with respect to her and her husband Joe, that's privileged conversation. But it was an excellent conversation.
I've had conversations with them in the past. It was good to see them. And I'm delighted that, in fact, she is not in jail tonight. Should never have been there. LEMON: OK. So, she is, listen, she has been highly criticized, as you
know. And especially when it comes to the sanctity of marriage. She's been married four times. Do you find it hypocritical for her to stand in judgment of others, again, when you're considering particularly the sanctity of marriage?
BEVIN: Did you happen to watch the entire press conference today? Or the entire situation unfold?
LEMON: I watched it, but will you answer my question and then we can discuss that?
BEVIN: Now, the reason I ask is that I would encourage you and anyone else who's watching, go back and listen to her life story. I don't find it at all to be the case. In fact, what I find to be hypocritical are so many folks who attack her for personal life.
When, in fact, her Christian faith is something that is a new part of her life in recent years. That all of the thing that is you're quick to be snide about predate any of her religious convictions.
I think she should be applauded for somebody who has look back on her life and realize that's the old version of who I was. And with my religious faith I've taken a different path.
She should be applauded for that. This is the type of thing that frankly, regardless of people's religious faith, we celebrate and we protect in America because that's what America does.
LEMON: Well, I'm not snide; I'm just asking you the questions here. So, I'm not being snide. It's just -- I'm asking questions and you're answering them.
How are her actions, though, any different than refusing a biracial couple a license?
BEVIN: They're very different in this case. You go back to the loving case or whatever the case might be. This is an instance where as you noted, the Supreme Court makes rulings.
And in this case, they did make a ruling. They reinterpreted the 14th Amendment to provide and afford certain protections under the law to, in this case, same-sex couples for the ability to get married. Fair enough.
But what we have in the State of Kentucky is actual enabling legislation. We have on the books, a law that actually precludes that from being the case. What has happened historically when this has been the case? One of two things. It either states have said we're not going to agree, such as, when Dread Scott said that blacks we're the property of whites and we're subhuman.
There were state that simply said we're not going to agree with that. And we will become what would ultimately know as the abolition states, and they said, we will, at the state level, stand on our 1oth Amendment rights and do something different. So, that has been the case. There have been others, including that
which you noted. So, there's a disconnect between a ruling and the actual law itself.
It's important to note that, again, on July 10th, I've put forward a solution that would allow just this State of Hawaii who has been marrying same sex couple longer than probably anybody has done which is you make this a down loadable form. remove the dams of the county clerks.
LEMON: That happened today.
BEVIN: So, there is, in fact, equal protection under the law.
LEMON: That happened today. That was a compromise. But her attorney is saying that still not enough. That she's still going to go back to work. She's not going to compromise her principle, but did not say whether she would give marriage license just the same sex couples.
I want to play this for you because we're talking about religion here. And the interpretation of the bible. This is something that reminded me of something that I saw on television years ago. It's from a television show called West Wing. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The bible does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it does. Leviticus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eighteen twenty two.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus, 21:7.
She's s Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluently to town, you know, always flip the table whenever is her turn. What would a good price for her be? Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7.
If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre dame, can WestPoint. Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side?
Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, I'd like you to think about those questions. He is basically saying that what she is doing is relying on ancient text, even the bible, to object to something in a modern day life. And it doesn't make sense. It doesn't even follow the law.
[22:10:00] BEVIN: Frankly, what you're asking me to do is make commentary on a television program. I'm talking about real life.
LEMON: But it's about actual real life bible verses. Her real life verses that he is...
BEVIN: I'm running for governor.
LEMON: I understand that. I understand that. But Mr. Bevin, will you answer my question. Those are real life bible verses that he is referring to someone he is...
BEVIN: If you would stop talking, that's right.
LEMON: Well, I will stop talking, but, anyways. Those are real life bible verses that he's referring to.
BEVIN: You're showing an amazing...
LEMON: I'm not showing. I'm asking you...
BEVIN: You're selectively choosing.
LEMON: No. But that's what she's doing. That is criticism of her.
BEVIN: Let me tell you. But, Don.
LEMON: That is not the criticism of me. Hang on. Will you let me finish. Will you let me finish and then you can answer the question. What she has done is interpreted certain...
BEVIN: You're seeming a little bit upset here.
LEMON: I'm not upset. I'm just trying to get to answer the question. You are the one who is not answering the question.
What she has done is picked the bible verses that she wants to interpret them in the way that she wants to interpret them when there are many bible verses that you can interpret literally and you draw your own conclusion from. Go ahead and please answer the question.
BEVIN: Don, I appreciate your now theological expertise and I appreciate you sharing that with your audience. But the bottom line is this. What I have done as a guy running for governor is propose a solution whereby there's equal protection under the law.
This is something our current governor and our current Attorney General Jack Conway should have addressed. Mr. Conway who's also saying...
LEMON: Mr. Bevin, with all due respect to you, answer that three times, you've just -- you've just given me the same answer three times. That you're running for governor and that you've proposed a legislation and that you've proposed an alternative. But you're showing you've not answered my question.
BEVIN: Exactly. Why would we not want a solution? Why would we not want a solution to this?
LEMON: We do want a solution. I want you to answer my -- that happened today. That's what the judge decided. Please answer my question about the scripture.
BEVIN: That is -- actually, you're not -- that's not correct. Don, you're not correct on that. The judge did not say that this will become a downloadable form. He did not say that her name will be...
LEMON: The judge took her name off of the form.
BEVIN: He did not say that it would be filed.
LEMON: The name was taken off the forms and they have been giving the forms out without her name on the form.
BEVIN: Yes, but this is not addressing the issue in the State of Kentucky. My job will not be to deal in hypotheticals. My job will not be to comment on comments made on television shows. My job as governor of this state in the next two months and beyond is going to be addressing real life situations with real people.
And in this instance, that means finding equal protection under the law so that those who have the ability to married are able to do so. And those who frankly, have constitutional rights protected by the 1st Amendment don't have those suppressed as an effort of elevating the rights of others.
It's not one or the other. There can be equal protection under the law. This is what I'm calling for. I have never heard one negative word, not one negative word from Kim Davis or any other clerks about homosexuals whatsoever.
Never a single bad word. All the betrayal, all the nastiness, all of vial commentary has come from the other side directed at her. And I would challenge any of your listeners and yourself to find any instance of it being the other way around.
LEMON: Thank you, Mr. Bevin. You don't have to call people names in order to discriminate against them. It can be equally as harmful. But I appreciate your time on the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
Now I want to bring in Alan Dershowitz. His latest book is called "The Case Against the Iran Deal," and he joins me now via Skype.
Mr. Dershowitz, thank you so much. What do you make of his comments?
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, "THE CASE AGAINST IRAN DEAL" AUTHOR: Well, he has a point. That we should always try to accommodate people's religious believes. And here, there was a possibility of accommodating it. The court, instead of putting her into jail, could have simply ordered that there be marriages that are valid. Leave it to the Kentucky authorities to decide how to make them valid.
But I want to put a question to your listeners and to the lawyer, as well. Would she be as much of a rock star if she refused to marry divorced people? And that's a prohibition of the New Testament. Jesus was actually firmer in His prohibition against remarriage after divorce than he was about gay marriage, which he didn't comment on.
Would she be as much of a rock star if she had refused to marry divorced couples? Of course not. So, there's an element of bigotry because why she is at the rock star. This is all about gay people and the strong opposition to gay marriage in some parts of the country.
And let's face that reality. People use religion as a cupboard for bigotry. And you're absolutely right. This is no different than the loving case where the Supreme Court held that inter-racial marriage is constitutionally required or it can't be constitutionally prohibited.
And if the State of Virginia, in that case, had tried to fool around by saying, well, the clerk won't do it, but maybe her assistant will, nobody would have tolerated that. And we can't tolerate this, as well.
[22:15:01] The constant is that gay people have to be able to get married. The very law is how you do it. I'm glad the judge actually took her out of jail where she was a martyr.
And now, make sure let's enforce the law and make sure that gay people who get married without any hesitation and without any roadblocks.
LEMON: Let's be clear about what the law of the land is and what the Constitution says and what she's accused of breaking, Alan. What is it?
DERSHOWITZ: The Constitution now says that it is forbidden for any state to deny gay people the right to marriage. Now, your previous guest says, well, there's a difference between ruling and the law.
Let him go back to law school. Since Marbury versus Madison in the first part of the 18th century, or 19th century, we have made no distinction between legislation and rulings of the court.
The rulings of the court are the law of the land. And under the Supremacy of Laws, the State of Kentucky must obey the rulings.
He makes an analogy to, you know, Dread Scott. The better analogy is to, you know, Governor Wallace standing and blocking schools from being desegregated. And then, too, the Supreme Court just issue the ruling. But that was the law of the land. And we cannot allow local officials to stand in the way of enforcing the law of land which requires that state officials allow gay couples to marry.
LEMON: Mr. Dershowitz, I understand from my producers that Matt Bevin is listening and he wants to respond to what you're saying. Go ahead, Mr. Bevin.
BEVIN: Sure. My question to Mr. Dershowitz, and again, I have great respect for your knowledge of the law. But I wonder, do you think it was appropriate for state level officials or for that matter, for the President of the United States to stand in defiance of the Dread Scott decision?
Do you think that it was appropriate for people to have rather than done so, comply with the law? Would you have gathered that the president and every state, including those abolitionist states, have stood there and taken it because it was after all, the law of the land.
Do you think in any way, shape or form they had any right under the 10th Amendment to stand on their ability as sovereign states in defining that order in 1857?
DERSHOWITZ: No, I think if you want to defy an order of the Supreme Court and engage in civil disobedience, you do what Martin Luther King did. You go to jail. Or you do it conscientious objectives do. You don't serve in the army.
The one thing you can't do, you can't agree to serve in the army if you're a conscientious objector and then refuse an order. She should resign from her job because she can't fulfill her job. She should take another job.
A job that doesn't require her to violate the law. That would be the principal thing to do. But it is not principle to say that she is allowed an exception under the Constitution to follow the law of the land.
Now, you know, under Dread Scott, we needed to fight a Civil War obviously to end that injustice. That's not the paradigm. Today,...
BEVIN: No. But, sir, Mr. Dershowitz, Mr. Dershowitz, you've understood very well.
DERSHOWITZ: We can change the way you...
BEVIN: You understand very well. You've spanned this off in another or. But you understand very well when I ask you a question. You said, no.
LEMON: Quickly, Mr. Bevin, we're almost out of time.
BEVIN: You don't think it was appropriate that our president. You don't believe -- then she should have defiance to that. That's where I beg to differ with you.
DERSHOWITZ: No. You're talking about war and civil disobedience. I'm talking about law. The rule of law applies. You know, if you want to elect Governor Huckabee to be the next president...
BEVIN: Pres Scott was lost there.
LEMON: Let him finish. Go ahead.
DERSHOWITZ: ... then the support nominees of the Supreme Court will change the rules. So you can amend the Constitution. But you cannot simply disobey the law. And I would urge people not to vote for governor who is a law violator.
LEMON: Yes. Already. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate of time. We're out of time.
When we come back, Donald Trump gets a lesson enthusiastic reception from a hometown pry tonight. We'll tell you what happened.
Plus, the always outspoken Wendy Williams is here. Wait until you hear what she has to say about Donald Trump.
[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: CNN Kentucky today was incredible after Kim Davis was released after five days in jail for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses. She will be present to candidate Mike Huckabee supports Davis. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) U.S PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But I've already told them that if somebody needs to go to jail, I'm willing to go in her place. And I mean that. Because I'm tired of watching people being just harassed because they believe something of their faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Here with me now, USA Today columnist Bob Beckel, Katrina Pierson, spokesman for the Tea Party Leadership Fund, and republican strategist Rick Wilson.
Katrina, extraordinary day, including that last interview. What did you make of Davis and the supporters today. And Ted Cruz being in the crowd and Mike Huckabee.
KATRINA PIERSON, TEA PARTY LEADERSHIP FUND SPOKESPERSON: Well, I think there are a lot of people who are somewhat holding the status up as, you know, representative for suppressed Christian values. I personally look at it completely differently. Because what I see is we are holding her to this level because she is this elected official who's refusing to follow a law that just was pulled out of thin air, by the way. But we're not talking about all the other elected officials that have
not been enforcing federal law that has been law for very long time and people are dying. Children are being killed because elected officials are not following the law and they're not being put into jail. And I'm just curious to know why we're not having that conversation?
LEMON: OK. But, listen. Republicans are usually the party of law in order. Then, so, then why are -- republicans are the law and order, smaller government, abide by the Constitution. Then why not do it in this case, Katrina?
PIERSON: Well, because part of the law and order is the First Amendment. And this freedom of religion situation, whereas they were just asking for reasonable accountability.
Like I said, this is a brand new law. Instead of having that discussion maybe going to the legislature and having the discussion on how might we accommodate this woman considering we provide accommodations for all other religions at work. They didn't. They went straight to jail. And that's the problem.
[22:25:10] LEMON: All right. So, not everyone agrees with Mike Huckabee, though, and with Ted Cruz. I want you to listen to some of the other GOP reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KASICH, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, everybody is entitled to their opinion. And I love Mike Huckabee and what he stands for. I just think there's bigger fish to fry here in terms of the issue of people understanding what faith and God really means.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What I would do with this woman is to move her to another job where this is not an objection for her. Because we have to follow the law.
JEB BUSH, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She is sworn to uphold the law. And it seems to me that there ought to be common ground. There ought to be big enough space for her to act on her conscience and for now that the law is the law of the land.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm a very, very strong believer in Christianity and religion. But I will say that this was not the right job for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So then, what does this mean for the rest of the GOP for this race right now, Rick?
RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I think this is a microcosm of some of the dynamics that have come out of the Supreme Court decision.
And, look, I think most of the field looks at this with a two-track question. First is the legitimate questions of conscience and of religious liberty. And the second question is, as a government official, you are sworn to uphold the law including laws you don't like or you don't find convenient.
I wish that government officials like Hillary Clinton had followed the law on her secret e-mail server. I wish that in D.C. and Chicago, government officials followed the law that you have to issue gun licenses.
I wish that people at level of government adhere to the law. And if they exercise their rights of conscience, then, like Martin Luther King did, sometimes civil disobedience lands you in jail. Sometimes it leads to a situation where you have to make a sacrifices and that's an honorable sacrifice.
And if she believes in this with all of her heart, and she clearly does, this is the kind of thing you have to expect as somebody. You know, we don't live in a culture where civil disobedience is a zero sum game.
WISON: It costs you something as it should morally speaking. And look, it doesn't diminish or demean what the questions surrounding this. Did they, you know, go from zero to 60 and put her in jail right away? Yes. Should there be in intervening step? Yes.
I mean, Katrina, and I actually agree on something for once. They went very quickly to the highest of the sanction.
WILSON: Rather than working this through.
LEMON: We get where you're going. Bob, can we move on now and talk about the say in Trump? Are you cool with that?
BOB BECKEL, USA TODAY POLITICAL ANALYST: Do I say about Trump?
BECKEL: I say with one kind of one comment about the sick -- I mean, with all due respect, this woman religiously should get another job. She had to know that there would be gay couples coming to get licenses.
But, the fact that the GOP candidates all had to respond and take a day out of their campaign to talk about this thing is just another example of what happens when you get the far right people like Huckabee and Cruz to pull you into that conversation.
BECKEL: But, anyway, the Trump. What about the Trump?
LEMON: All right. He's going to be on The View on Thursday. Jeb Bush he's going to be on Stephen Colbert here. He's the first guest tonight. Hillary Clinton is going to be on Ellen tomorrow.
Should we expect to see more of these nontraditional media appearances from all these presidential because they are competing with someone who is dynamic as Donald Trump?
BECKEL: Oh, sure. I mean, look, let's remember. It was bill Clinton who got himself out of a very deep political hole by going on playing a very bad saxophone I think with Jay Leno.
LEMON: No, I think it was Arsenio Hall.
BECKEL: And Barack Obama became, you know, sort of the student of this art. And it does. We're finding out for example that on The Daily Show about 40 percent of young people in America get their news from The Daily Show.
So, I think it's perfect reasonable. It's just another -- it's like social media, it's just another outlet. But I would like you to get your hands off particularly at a race this crowd. You got to take it.
LEMON: All right.
WILSON: All culture is pop culture.
LEMON: I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Coming up, Donald Trump facing some very tough questions lately. Some from Hugh Hewitt and he's going to be at our CNN debate in just a week. And he is here next.
[22:30:00] LEMON: GOP candidates gearing up for our CNN debate. Just days away on September 16th, and they'll get some tough questions from my next guest.
Hugh Hewitt is the host of Radio Hugh Hewitt Show and the author of "The Queen, the Epic Ambition of Hillary Clinton and the Coming of the Second Clinton Era." What a name for a book. It's pretty long name.
Thank you, Hugh. Good to see you. So, let's talk off with the big news.
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HUGH HEWITT SHOW HOST: Good to be back, Don.
LEMON: Yes. Let's talk about this news. I'm sure you know about this. I'm sure you're championing to a bit of talk about Hillary Clinton apologizing about her use of a private e-mail server. Here's what she told ABC News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you make a mistake?
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did. I did. As I said, it was allowed. And there was no hiding it. It was totally above board. Everybody in the government I communicated with and that was a lot of people who knew I was using a personal e-mail.
But, I'm sorry, that it has, you know, raised all of these questions. I do take responsibility for having made what was clearly not the best decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, hearing this policy, did anything changed for you?
HEWITT: No, because it was not allowed, Don, 18usc 1924, clearly prohibits the knowing of retention classified information in an unsecure facility other than a sensitive compartment and information facility is skipped.
Mrs. Clinton won't sit down with someone like me who ask tough questions. All the republicans have sat down with me, they don't mind tough questions.
I had Lindsey Graham on today for half an hour talking tough questions. Republicans are not afraid of them. Hillary Clinton is. She will not go in her arms way because she cannot answer detailed question.
It does not matter what the document is mark. It matters what the recipient or the sender knows about its content. She clearly violated 18usc 1924, and this will not let, I think, continue in this campaign much longer.
[22:35:06] If -- it may be three or four months, but as this goes on, she sinks deeper and deeper because the American people into it that she's hiding a lot.
LEMON: She is taking a hit in the polls. I have to ask you this. Speaking of tough questions. Let's talk about Donald Trump. You interviewed him on your radio show. He is now calling you now, quote, this is a quote from him, "third rated," he said that you're a "third rated" host. He says, you asked "gotcha" questions.
This is now the second time that you -- this month that you two have had a beef. So, you said he didn't have the temperament to be president. What is going on with you? Do you think that he's going to be coming for you during this debate?
HEWITT: No. And Bob Beckel, who just had on this has said much worse things about me than Donald Trump. And you know that the loyal fans of matt Bevin, I watch your first interview will be saying horrible things about you later tonight.
Donald Trump actually misheard could curds, and I understand that. I give him credit. He answered all of my questions. I didn't stump Trump. Some people didn't like his answers, but he was on for 20 minutes. That was the first question. He just didn't like it. That's fine. We have to, in our business learn to take criticism and reflect upon it and make sure that we don't repeat it.
LEMON: Yes. HEWITT: But, tough questions he has asked and been answered six times on my show. I'm sure he's looking forward to it and see me valley, they all are. Because that's what presidents have to do.
And I work for Ronald Reagan for five and a half years. And for a year, than in the White House. President Reagan often got, you know, stumped to give him questions and he laughed them off.
George Bush dealt with them differently. I think the best thing to do is to make sure you hear the question. Because I pretty sure Donald Trump just didn't hear could versus curds and that most of the rest of the interview went very well.
LEMON: You're absolutely right. I open on social media here. So, this person is coming after you. I'm always, like, get in line. Every day is a different day, right? So, do you take this criticism as a badge of honor? Go ahead.
HEWITT: I want to listen to critics. I think that media people, whether they're center right like me, conservative like me or down the middle journalists like you or someone on the left like Katrina, they have to listen to critics. They have to be very careful that they're open to being corrected as to what is overdone or underdone.
So, if someone says I got your question, I want to listen and go back and look at. I don't think it was. But if enough people, there's an old Irish saying, I said this on Meet the Press yesterday, if everybody says you're drunk, you better sit down. That's far most people don't think it was a 'gotcha' question.
But you know what, I don't want to get close to that clip. The purpose of next Wednesday's debate, you're on CNN, is to let republican primary voters know who is going to be the best candidate to beat Hillary Clinton and who is going to be the best commander-in-chief for a world in gulf ticket.
Four millions Syrians have fled their country. Millions have fled their country.
LEMON: I want to talk to you...
HEWITT: Mostly because of religious liberty issue, Don.
HEWITT: That's what I want to get to. And you and Matt Bevin...
LEMON: I want to talk to you about that. Go ahead.
HEWITT: OK. Go ahead.
LEMON: I want to talk to you about what's happening oversees and what's also happening with that. And I wonder because I think you're going to ask a lot of foreign policy questions. But I want you to listen to this. Because there are domestic issues that must be dealt with, as well. This is what Donald Trump told Bill O'Reilly earlier. This is about Black Lives Matter. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think they're trouble. I think they're looking for trouble. I looked at a couple of the people that were interviewed from the group. I saw them with hate coming down the street last week, talking about cops and police and what should be done to them. And that was not good.
And I think it's a disgrace that they're getting away with it. I think it's disgraceful the way they're being catered to by the democrats. And it's going to end up kicking them you know where. I don't think it's going to end up good. The fact is, all lives matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Are you going to talk domestic issues like that?
HEWITT: My intention is to focus on national security and foreign policy, Don, and I'll tell you why. Four million Syrians on the move because of a respite who was not rebuked at the time that he crossed the red line President Obama lie down.
A million Libyans are on the move because Hillary Clinton's foreign policy collapsed in Libya.
HEWITT: My intention for the republican primary is to make sure they focus on -- and religious freedom issues. Those people are fleeing because they are Christians in many respect, hundreds of thousands of Christians who are facing -- and that's why we connect that with Kentucky at this point.
HEWITT: What happen in Kentucky is a religious liberty issue. What is happening in the Middle East is a religious liberty issue. I am not going to go where I don't want to go. I want to stay on national security and religious liberty. And you know what, Jake and Dana may have a different agenda, mine is national security and foreign policy. It has been since I started my show 15 years ago.
LEMON: Well, I can't wait to see it. I wish it was happening right now. But we'll have to wait until next week.
Thank you, Hugh Hewitt. I appreciate it.
HEWITT: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Coming up, believe it or not, my next guest has a key to getting along with Donald Trump. Wendy Williams is here next. There she is.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: There is no topic too hot for Wendy Williams. From the news of the day that Donald Trump season 7. Good thing he's been saying that.
WENDY WILLIAMS, THE WENDY WILLIAMS SHOW HOST: No.
LEMON: Seven 7 of the Wendy Williams Show starts on Monday. And she is here. So, fasten your seat belts. So, good to have you on my show. Finally.
WILLIAMS: Nice to have -- nice to be here, Don.
LEMON: I'm always on your show. And you know what we do, the hot talk panel.
LEMON: And from your hot talk and from your hot topics you discuss everything. You know, you make news on your show.
WILLIAMS: Yes, and, unfortunately, it's not necessarily something that's good.
LEMON: Well, I think this one is good, though. I'm talking about Donald Trump.
LEMON: Do you remember when Donald Trump was on your show back in December? You asked him about running for president.
LEMON: Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I run for president, I can't do it.
WILLIAMS: Here we go again.
TRUMP: No, I'm telling you. If I run, I can't do it. Because you're not allowed to have a show if you're running for political office. I don't know why. They look about certain things. But, you know, look. Look at the sign. Look at the sign. Trump...
WILLIAMS: Oh, my, gosh.
TRUMP: OK? And I didn't do it. I didn't do it. That's a pretty good. I like that. I want to get -- I want that sign after the show.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:45:02] LEMON: So, you make news that you didn't know.
WILLIAMS: He clearly put that there on purpose.
LEMON: Do you think he did?
WILLIAMS: No, I had no idea. I forget. Because we've done so many shows. But I love Donald Trump. He's a friend to the show. And if he wins, then that will be my first time ever going to the White House.
LEMON: You two get along really well. Why do people like -- why do you think people don't like. Now average Americans like him.
WILLIAMS: Yes. You know, I honestly think that his campaign has more legs than I thought that it would, you know. Because Donald -- see, we understand him here in the New York tristate area. We are say it like we mean it kind of people.
And that's probably why he and I get along, you know, so well. You know, we tread around each other, but we don't step on each other. And, for Donald, I am shocked. He's very entertaining and very engaging.
LEMON: Would you vote for him?
LEMON: Why not. Even though you like him?
WILLIAMS: There is nobody in the running yet that I have to say about.
LEMON: Not even on the democratic side. Not even Hillary Clinton? Wendy, you're at a loss for words?
WILLIAMS: No, I'm not at a loss. But sometimes it's better just to give a look than to say something.
WILLIAMS: I'm not impressed by anybody yet.
LEMON: Joe Biden? No.
WILLIAMS: He hasn't committed. He already said that he has to see what about what his family says. And I think that, you know, with the laws that the Biden's have, you know, recently had to go through with their son and everything, it's probably best that he just retires along with Obama.
LEMON: Speaking of people who are who they are, did you -- Kim Davis, we've been talking about it here earlier on the show with political show. Ted Cruz down in the rally in Kentucky. She is a clerk. That's a sizzling hot topic. Something that you would discuss on your show. What do you think for that?
WILLIAMS: I feel that she has the right to her opinion and she got away with something that shouldn't be get away with the ball. I mean, listen, if I'm going to say it like I mean it, then I expected everyone else to say it like they mean it, also.
LEMON: It would be able to take this, right?
WILLIAMS: And if you want to know what and if you dish it out, and you should be able to take it. No, I don't agree with Kim Davis. You know, it smack some ignorance in 2015, but she's entitled to her opinion.
LEMON: We've been talking about -- you also handled a lot of topics and you know that when we were on the panel, you get passion a lot of topics. You know, races, one of the -- we've been talking about Black Lives Matter, about police around the country and, you know, brutality. You're not afraid to discuss those. What do you think of the Black Lives Matter movement?
WILLIAMS: I think that Black Lives Matter is bigger than a movement. You know, that needs to be something that's taught from household to household in this country. It's a shame that at this point, we have to make a movement about black lives mattering.
You know, as the daughter of a black man. As the wife of a black man. As the mother of a 15-year-old black boy. Yes, black lives do matter. Do I need to be part of a campaign to bring that home to my family? No. Not at all. But, fine. You do what you want.
LEMON: Yes. There's a sense though, now after the recent incidents that police say that they are under fire, as well.
WILLIAMS: Yes, they do.
LEMON: And their lives matter. Do you think that they're under fire?
WILLIAMS: Yes. I do believe that police are under fire. But I also believe that police, not all of you, how are you doing, cops. But I do think that there are good cops and there are bad cops. And there are cops out there who don't believe that the life of a 15-year-old black boy named Kevin Hunter matters.
And I do believe that in teaching in our individual households, it will make a little bit of a difference, not the whole world. We tell our son, you know, if you get ever stopped by the cops and you're walking down in the streets, take your hands out of your pocket, pull the hood off of your head, you know, take hat off or whatever, and talk with your hands out.
Yes, sir, no, sir, whatnot. It doesn't mean that he won't get his behind beat by some salty cop. What are you going to do, Don?
LEMON: Yes. Well, I think we feel the same way on it. Listen, it's not going to -- it can happen regardless of what you do. But most of the time if you comply -- you're not going to win in that situation with someone with the gun. That's how I feel and authority. I think you should comply.
WILLIAMS: Right. So, just shut your mouth.
WILLIAMS: Just shut your mouth and go along with it. It's not just black men. You know, I have a talk show.
WILLIAMS: But everybody doesn't recognize me when they stop me. I've been stopped before. Hands on 10 and 2. You sit here and you wait. ma'am, do you know why -- excuse me, officer, why did you stop me? I'll get to that in a moment, ma'am. License and registration. OK, here I go. I'm going into the glove compartment going to be dealt with. And that's how you do it.
LEMON: It doesn't mean that it's right.
[22:50:00] WILLIAMS: It doesn't mean that it's right.
WILLIAMS: It doesn't mean that you're going to get shot.
WILLIAMS: But you do what you can.
LEMON: Wendy Williams. Stay right there.
WILLIAMS: What a mess.
LEMON: When we come back, we're going to talk Venus and Serena. Black women in the public eye with Wendy Williams. Don't go anywhere.
LEMON: I'm back now with the one and only Wendy Williams. The queen of TV talk. You're the queen now except.
WILLIAMS: If you say so, Don.
LEMON: So, listen. You buddy.
LEMON: Serena Williams' body. So, you celebrate it. You don't body shame, anyway. She has been sort of body shamed recently. She and her sister are facing off in playing tennis for the fifth time they're facing each other. They're doing really well. They are doing really well.
LEMON: Do you know them?
WILLIAMS: No, I don't -- well, Venus has been on the show before. I've never met Serena. Both lovely. It's got to be really difficult playing your sister because part of you says, no matter who wins, the Williams' win on one hand.
WILLIAMS: On the other hand, if I were to play my sister in a game, I'd want to beat her.
LEMON: Yes. And they, like you, transcend race.
WILLIAMS: Yes, we do.
LEMON: That's what we're talking about. They do transcend race. You're about to start a season, as we said, season 7 of your talk show.
WILLIAMS: Yes, I'm so excited.
LEMON: Is it going to change -- well, it's not broken, don't fix it. But what are you going to do this season?
WILLIAMS: We're in a few new segments, Don. You know, nothing to really change the landscape of the show. Hot topics is still be, you know, as long as ever.
Ask Wendy will still be as scandalous as ever. Hot talk panels will still, you know, be as loud as ever.
WILLIAMS: And I'm just there to have a good time.
LEMON: I love hot talk.
LEMON: I love it. What would be your hot topic or hot talk panel today, today if you did it?
WILLIAMS: Oh, gee, Don, don't be...
LEMON: Would it be Kim Davis?
WILLIAMS: I'm not sure.
LEMON: Is that too serious for your show?
LEMON: But you can -- you name all this stuff. Or probably Donald Trump, too.
WILLIAMS: Donald, but Donald will be -- Donald and what he's doing will outlive Kim Davis.
LEMON: Yes. WILLIAMS: And that bit of ignorance, you know.
LEMON: I like that you -- is this part of your clothing line?
LEMON: It is.
WILLIAMS: This is -- all the stuff on -- at Wendy, on HSN, it's my Wendy Williams collection, and everything is under a $100. Because I believe, as a woman, that your clothes can turn on you.
WILLIAMS: You can gain weight or lose weight. Why should you spend a lot of money on clothes. You put your money in your hand bags and do it girl.
LEMON: And what's on the ID Channel, what is it called Death by Gossip?
WILLIAMS: Death by Gossip, every Friday night at 9 o'clock. I'm producing it, narrating it.
WILLIAMS: And, well, you know, on the ID Channel, everyone ends up dead.
LEMON: I know, we call it the murder channel. But I love it. It's always on.
WILLIAMS: I love it. Me too.
LEMON: We had another one in the DDR back in the fall, I forget what the name of it was. But I don't know if it was "It Wise of Nadia" or something you did but it is really good.
LEMON: Yes. It was good. I love you, Wendy.
WILLIAMS: I love you too, Don.
LEMON: You're an inspiration. You know that.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, Don.
[22:55:00] LEMON: Yes. Keep saying it like you mean it.
WILLIAMS: I will.
LEMON: And keeps your violent.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
LEMON: Wendy Williams, we'll be right back.
LEMON: We're back now with some breaking news. Hillary Clinton with another apology tonight on her e-mails that this one is via a Facebook statement.
Here's part of it, it reads in part, quote, "I wanted you to hear his directly from me. Yes, I should have used two e-mail addresses, one for personal matter and one for my work at the State Department. Not doing so was a mistake. I'm sorry about it. I take full responsibility. It's important for you to know a few key facts. My use of a personal e-mail account was above board and allowed under the State Departments rule. Everyone I communicated with in government was aware of it. And nothing I ever sent or received was marked classified at the time. I know this is a complex story. I could have and should have done a better job answering questions earlier. I'm grateful for your support and I'm not taking anything for granted."
[22:29:53] Again, that was just posted on Hillary Clinton's Facebook page. Another apology tonight. See you tomorrow night. Thanks for watching. I'm Don Lemon. AC360 starts right now.