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New CNN/ORC Poll: Trump First, Carson Second; Biden talks with Colbert About Possible White House Bid; Trump One-On-One, Republican Frontrunner Talks to Chris Cuomo; Mistaken Identity, NYPD Tackles, Handcuffs Tennis Star James Blake

Aired September 10, 2015 - 21:00   ET



[21:00:35] ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 HOST: Hey good evening. Thanks for joining us 9:00 P.M., in New York, where we have breaking news. New polling that will not be welcome news for Hillary Clinton, it is 6:00 P.M., the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, Southern California, site of next week's CNN Republican Presidential Debate. Now just six days away, the breaking news on that, we can now say that these are the 11 candidates who qualify for the main debate. Rand Paul, Huckabee, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Dr. Ben Carson, Donald Trump, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Carly Fiorina, John Kasick, and Chris Christie.

Five others will be debating earlier and here are the republican leaders in our new CNN/ORC polling with Donald Trump now topping 30 percent for the very first time. Dr. Carson is the only other candidate in double digits, so he very busy hour ahead, a lot to talk about starting on the democratic side where those new CNN/ORC poll numbers have just come out and chief national correspondent John King has them. So let's look at democratic candidates, where do they stand?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, let me just bring up the numbers because the numbers don't lie and this is bad news, the bad night for the Clinton campaign. Nationally right now, she still leads at 37 percent, you see Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders at 27 percent. The vice president at 20 percent, Martin O'Malley, the former Maryland governor at 3. But remember this 37 percent now is where Hillary Clinton is, let's fill in the blanks.

Now we talked the last hour about how Donald Trump is a growth stock. Look at this, Hillary Clinton was at 58 percent just a couple months ago, she's lost nearly 20 points. Bernie Sanders a steady climb, he's plateaud at about 27 there. The vice president up a little bit right there. So if you're in the Clinton campaign, these national numbers that's a sign of trouble. That's a warning sign. Sanders again is on the rise at the moment and Joe Biden, not so bad.

If you look at Hillary Clinton support, here's a problem for her, only 31 percent of democratic men support Hillary Clinton. The gender gap is playing to her advantage for support, 41 percent of democratic women support Secretary Clinton, very interesting divided in the democratic race right now. Among those who describe themselves as liberals, only 23 percent support Hillary Clinton. She gets nearly half of democrats who say "I'm a moderate." Now watch the flipside here, if you look at Bernie Sanders support, he gets nearly half of those who say they're liberals and only 15 percent of those who say they are moderates. So you have an interesting philosophical debate within the Democratic Party now, Anderson as this all plays out.

COOPER: The poll, I understand also took a look at how the various democratic candidates would fare against republican rivals.

KING: Now the interesting numbers here are for Joe Biden as he considers his choice about whether or not to get into the race. Number one, if you ask democrats who they think will win the nomination right now, 55 percent still say Hillary Clinton, but Joe Biden is up to 22 percent in that number. But when you do general election match ups, Clinton or Biden versus Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton ties Donald Trump right now, Joe Biden would beat them by 10 points in our new poll.

How about versus Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton would lose by two points, that's a statistical tie, but she's losing by two points. Joe Biden can say, hey I'm beating Jeb by eight points right now in the national polls, and versus Ben Carson, who is the leading republican now when it comes to general election match ups, Hillary Clinton will lose to Ben Carson by five points at the moment, Joe Biden by only three so that was about a statistical tie. But if you look at the frontrunner at the moment, Joe Biden can say, I beat him and the person, republicans think will win, if it's not Donald Trump, Joe Biden can say, I beat him too. So this first challenge Anderson, will be the win the nomination but if you're Biden and you're making an assessment, that makes you smile.

COOPER: And Bernie Sanders, I want to ask you about because he's actually now surged ahead of Hillary Clinton in Iowa for the first time, right?

KING: Right, and that's -- let's look at those numbers, we'll look at a different model. We don't have those in the wall right here. But Bernie Sanders right now is at 41 percent in Iowa according to the new Quinnipiac University poll, up from 33 percent just last month. I remember Hillary Clinton is now at 40 percent. She was at 52 percent in the last Quinnipiac poll. So Hillary Clinton is going down, Bernie Sanders coming up in the first caucus state. Remember Iowa is where it all fell apart for Hillary Clinton in 2008. Why? Liberal caucus goers in Iowa, 59 percent of Iowa democrats describe -- those who those describe themselves as very liberal, 59 percent for Bernie Sanders, only 29 percent for Hillary Clinton, so liberals who tend to show up at the causes are for Bernie Sanders, that's the source of his momentum and Anderson, one more quick number from this Iowa poll, are your candidates honest and trust worthy? Sixty four percent say that about Hillary Clinton, 86 percent say that about Bernie Sanders, 91 percent about Joe Biden.

So the honest and trustworthy factor hurting Hillary Clinton in the first kickoff state of Iowa.

COOPER: And John, stay there because I want to bring in our two political analysts Gloria Borger, as well as Chief Clinton supporter and Super PAC consul (ph), Paul Begala is also a CNN political commentator, I'm not sure that is your official title.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I need to get a card that say (inaudible).

COOPER: So Gloria, I mean Vice President Biden taped an interview that's airing tonight in the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, according to the press pool, traveling with him the vice president once again emphasized the emotional impact of running for president especially as he continues to mourn his son...


COOPER: ... and I want to read a quote of what he said because it could be her telling said, "I don't think any man or woman should run for president unless number one, they know exactly why they would want to be president, number two, they can look folks out there and say I promise you, you have my whole heart, my whole soul, my energy, my passion to do this and I'll be lying if I said that I knew I was there." What do you make of that?

BORGER: I think that's the honest Joe Biden. I think what Joe Biden is saying to people privately is what he said to Stephen Colbert tonight. This is a man whose heart has been broken. His son just died and his, son Bo Biden, was supposed to carry the political torch for the family and be the next generation of Bidens and maybe become president himself. And his life was cut short by cancer. Joe Biden is torn apart by it, his wife is torn apart by it, their family is going through a huge emotional turmoil right now. He looks at the numbers, he's talking to people, he's talking to advisers. He feels like he is getting the respect he deserves because people are talking about him...

COOPER: Right.

BORGER: ... as potential presidential candidate. But, you know, he's really hurting and then -- and then...


BORGER: ... reading this, I thought, you know, I don't think he's going to do it.

COOPER: So John, when would he have to make a decision by?

KING: Those who were talking to him about to stay he will make a decision by just about the end of the month. Remember the first democratic debate is October 13th, there's been a joke in the Biden inner circle, announce that morning that you're getting into the race and show up for the debate but that's it's a joke, they understand -- they understand to get -- if he is going to join the race, he has to signal if not by the last day of September, by the first or second of October that he is getting in and I'm told you he will make the decision in that timeframe and I agree with everything Gloria said about, when you listen to him publicly, he seems to be pulling back a bit from where he was a week...

COOPER: Right.

KING: ... or two ago, but I talked to somebody who's in the room with him when he talks about this tonight he said the decision has not been made.

COOPER: Paul, I mean you're looking at Hillary Clinton, down from last month 10 points, she's still in the lead, yes, and Bernie Sanders is down a couple points as well, but what do you make or the vice president is right now if he does not get in, what happens? Does that go to Hillary Clinton?

BEGALA: Well, actually right now, I think the vice president in the polling data, John could correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be takes a bit from both, Senator Sanders and Secretary Clinton. I think Gloria is spot on. This is a man who has just been through hell and has been crushed and his heart has been broken and he's a friend of mine, I love the guy, he's beloved across the Democratic Party.

When I watch the tape of him in Pittsburgh at the steel workers Labor Day rally, boy, I thought there's the Joe Biden, you know, who's run twice before and he could really do it again and he had that passion and energy. You read those quotes and you wonder, I just think -- I think Gloria is right. I think he is being completely honest that there's probably some moments where he feels like I've really got this in me and then there's other moments where he feels like he doesn't...


BEGALA: ... and I think all we had -- just those of us who love him and care about him, I mean give him a lot of space just to make whatever decision is best for him and his family.

COOPER: Paul, how does the Clinton campaign stop this downward slide?

BEGALA: Well, it's a couple of things. Seems to me they have three options. I've been through a lot of campaigns, they've all had problems. Option one is panic, freak out and fire everybody, not a good idea, almost never works.

KING: That's how you got your job in the first Clinton campaign.

BORGER: It's a little early.

BEGALA: Option two is to kind of, you know, mimic Donald Trump, you know, run like you're (inaudible), start insulting everybody, you know, Bernie Sanders is so old this is all scary numbers three, you know, if Donald -- if ugly was a crime, Donald Trump's hair would get the death penalty, that's not Hillary, she can't pull that stuff off. So option three is, you know, whether the storm with some humility and humanity with some grace and try to push it back to the ideas. Well, while we've all been covering the e-mail stuff, and Mr. Trump, she has put out really good policy papers on cleaning up the dirty money in politics, on battling addiction, on making college more affordable. She needs to get our attention back to that. She could do it. She -- that's her challenge as a candidate is not only our fault.


BEGALA: It's her challenge as a candidate to bring attention back to those things.

COOPER: Well Gloria, I mean, anytime there's a lot of noise surrounding Donald Trump, which is pretty much always but even more this week...


COOPER: ... does that create almost a diversion for Hillary Clinton opportunity to improve her campaign?

BORGER: Oh it's manna from heaven for Hillary Clinton because she doesn't have to apologize or not apologize for what she did with her e-mail account, you know, while she was at the state department. What Donald Trump said about Carly Fiorina today was something Hillary Clinton was like -- they teed up the ball for her and she could hit it out of the park...

COOPER: Right.

BORGER: ... talking about the candidate who insults women, so she gets, the gender issue going again. That's where she's so comfortable and more of herself, so yeah, anytime Donald Trump is in trouble, she's got to love it.

COOPER: And John, I mean...

BEGALA: And that's where there is real erosion for her in this poll, with women. She needs to dominate with democratic women and she's not doing this poll.

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: And John, Hillary Clinton went out of her way to stress that she's a moderate. Bernie Sanders, you know, goes out of his way to stress it, but he's a progressive. They each use these specific words, there's a key difference, especially when it comes to democratic primary voters, right.

[21:10:04] KING: Well, Hillary Clinton was in the state of Ohio today when she said that. She's thinking about the general election already and if you win Ohio, you probably deny the republicans the presidency. But it's a great point, because remember Barack Obama got to her left in Iowa in 2008. Principally on the Iraq war.

Bernie Sanders is to her left now and so she has to be careful here in describing herself as a moderate, that she hasn't angered the liberals, but I make a broader point back to where Paul just was.

I think as much as we talk about how important these republican debates are, our next -- our CNN Republican Debate is next week, with Donald Trump as the clear frontrunner, we are going to see mayhem as the others try to attack him. I think that first democratic debate is critical for Secretary Clinton to remind democratic voters, I'm the candidate. She need to make this case, I'm the candidate you want to send into the general election, because we want to keep the White House and history says we won't and I'm a stronger general election candidate, whether she's just up there against Sanders, O'Malley, and Senator Webb and the likes and (inaudible) or whether Joe Biden is on the stage. And I think the first debate is actually a defining moment for her because of her wobbling right now to bring some stability back.

COOPER: Interesting. John King, Gloria Borger, and Paul Begala, thank you.

Just ahead Chris Cuomo's free willing interview with Donald Trump, a republican frontrunner took off the gloves, hammered Ben Carson. He also a lot more to say about Carly Fiorina


COOPER: As we said earlier, Donald Trump no surprise will have the prime position center stage in the republican debate stage next week in Simi Valley, California. CNN is hosting the debate, Jake Tapper will be moderating. There's new poll numbers out tonight showing Mr. Trump has widened his lead in the republican field. He's now at 32 percent, which is a gain of eight points since August. He's the first republican candidate to break the 30 percent threshold.

[21:15:10] Now this morning on CNN's New Day, Mr. Trump talked to Chris Cuomo in a wide ranging interview. Chris joins me tonight.

COOPER: So I mean a fascinating interview you had, we're going to play the whole thing. How did you think it went?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN REPORTER: How did I think it went? It's kind of like when you're doing hurricane coverage, at the time you're just happy to make it through. And then afterwards, people will tell you what the event was like for them.

But look as you know very well and you are all learning all the time as you see the polls, Donald Trump is the GOP leader and in the new polls, his lead is bigger than ever. So we wanted to sit down and ask the man at the front of the race right now why does he think he's winning, why does he think he can go all the way.


CUOMO: Mr. Trump can you hear us?


CUOMO: Good, good to have you. A lot to get through this morning, there's a new CNN/ORC poll, you are aware of it, other than the -- your surprise that you don't have more than 32 percent of the vote, how do you explain these numbers? What do they mean to you?

TRUMP: Well, I think they mean that people are tired of politicians that make deals like the deal we just made with Iran, which is one of the worst negotiated transactions I've ever seen in my life and I'm not just talking about deals between countries, I'm talking about any kind of a contract. It's one of the worst deals I've ever seen. It's the most one-sided, lopsided, disgrace and how it goes through is unbelievable and we should not give them money. There are ways that we can get out of giving the money.

I heard some legal maneuvers that they should play because to give them $150 billion and they go around saying that Israel won't be here in 25 years, and we're not going to deal with the United States after this great deal that we just made to sign, that we won't have anything to do with the United States. By the way, the people that we're negotiating the deal with those other countries, they are going to benefit. You look at what they're doing, they're over in Iran right now. They're going to be splitting up all the money and taking a lot of the money out that we're giving. So I think people are tired of that. They're tired of Sergeant Bergdahl where we get Bergdahl a trade or they get five killers that they have wanted for 10 years. They're tired of trade deals with China and with...

CUOMO: Right.

TRUMP: ... Japan and, you know, are tired and they know that won't happen with me...

CUOMO: Well.

TRUMP: ... and it's not going to be happen with me...

CUOMO: That ones are being the (inaudible)....

TRUMP: ... I'll turn the tables completely.

CUOMO: That winds up being the test, are you right that people are tired, obviously, every poll you're in proves that. Not to say that you are a protest candidate because in our recent poll, CNN poll, says why they vote for you? Seventy one percent say they like your positions on issues, not because they just don't like everybody else.

So, you are right about what people say they want within the GOP and independent voters as proved out in the most recent CNN poll. Now, the next level of analysis is, can you deliver on what you say, because what you say sounds good. The Iran deal is the worst deal of all time. A growing number of people who are studying the deal don't agree with you. The global community doesn't agree with you. Iran does not agree with you, they didn't want to give up their plutonium abilities, they didn't want give up their timelines, they didn't want to have to reduce their stores the way they did, but they had to give up things to get what they wanted.

Colin Powell, a man who I would think you respect says, we have to do the Iran deal, there is no better alternative. They were on a super highway to getting a weapon. Sounds good to say the deal sucks, sounds good to say you'll do better because you do deals, but can you deliver on that when as you just said, the Ayatollah said he ain't talking to you anymore.

TRUMP: OK, well, let me just tell you that in terms of the deal itself, just look at aspects of the deal. 24-day inspection period, ridiculous and by the way...

CUOMO: But you have none now. But you have none now.

TRUMP: Just let me finish talking...

CUOMO: Please, go ahead.

TRUMP: OK, you just went, I mean what are you making a statement or asking me a question?

CUOMO: No, no what I'm trying to give context to the situation.

TRUMP: Oh yeah, the 24 day period and before you get to the 24 day is the clock doesn't start ticking for a long time. It's a whole process. So number one in terms of inspections. Number two, they do their own inspections in certain very important case so they're going to self-inspect. Anybody that trusts Iran to self-inspect is not such a smart person. You look at the prisoners, why didn't we get our prisoners back, a little thing, very important just the psychology of it. They kept four prisoners, why wouldn't we get them back?

You look at all the different elements of this deal why are we giving them $150 billion, then take a look at the fact they're fighting us in Yemen, right, they're fighting us all over the place, they're terrorizing everybody, they're going in and taking over Iraq I hope you know that. I told you that was going to happen in 2003 when you were actually at another network doing very well. But I said that that was going to happen in 2003. I said the worst thing you can do is go and attack Iraq because you're going to destabilize the Middle East, because you had these two powerful gods, they were almost the same, where we destroyed one of gods, well guess what? Iran and ISIS are getting the oil and Iran is taking over Iraq.

[21:20:00] As you're sitting there right now, they are meeting and with all the money we've spent and the last $2 trillion, thousands of lives, thousands of lives, and all the wounded warriors who I love all over the place, Iran is now taking over Iraq, and the oil. By the way, Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world. They are taking over Iraq and they're taking over the oil.

And what do we get out of it? And you know who one of the biggest the beneficiaries of Iraqi oil is? China. China is getting the oil. And you know who the biggest beneficiary and if you look at Afghanistan, which is very rich in minerals? China. We're on one side of a mountain fighting in Afghanistan. China has got its excavators on the other side...


CUOMO: Right, but Mr. Trump you make a very interesting point.

TRUMP: ...that now they'll taking out, you know, they don't do anything. So...

CUOMO: You look at China... TRUMP: That's why when people ask about, gee, I wonder if Trump's poll numbers are skyrocketing, that's why. That's not going to happen if I'm running things, Chris. It won't happen up and you know what, that it won't happen? The world will like us better.

CUOMO: China stays China. Russia stays Russia. India stays India. They all want to do business with Iran. They were not in favor of more sanctions. The same with many of your European partners.

TRUMP: That's called the leadership, Chris. If you would have gotten...

CUOMO: But what does that mean, leadership? If they say we're not going to do it, what do you say?

TRUMP: You want to be able to make a real deal. I'm all for a deal, just so you understand because I understand the power of nuclear. I had an uncle who was a professor at MIT he fully understood. He would -- he used to tell me things that are incredible. That was a long time ago. I'm all for a deal. But you got to make a good deal. You can't make a bad deal and we were begging for this deal. We look like a bunch of beggars. We were begging for this deal.

CUOMO: You also say in an op-ed that many are celebrating as being very well-reasoned about the Iran deal and there are some thoughtful items and that people should read it. But you push very hard on the fact that I get those four -- as soon as I'm president, I'm getting back those four hostages. You must know that they were -- they are and we're trying hard to get the hostages back.

TRUMP: I don't believe they were trying very hard. I don't think it was.

CUOMO: Let's take about their words because we don't have any proof to the contrary.

TRUMP: When they asked Kerry about the hostages Chris -- when they asked Kerry about the hostages, he said we didn't want to discuss the hostages because we didn't want to complicate the negotiation. How ridiculous is that? But he made that statement. And Obama, your friend over at CBS made the same statement. He said we didn't want to complicate the negotiations. Now, what's the big deal? First of all, the first day, the first hour, the first minute, the first question should have been hostages. We want our hostages back.

CUOMO: But would you scrap the whole deal over that? Would you scrap the whole deal? Would you have left the table?

TRUMP: Initially absolutely because that would have shown what happened. What -- when you didn't get the hostages back, that set a bad table. You know, you call the deal is like setting a table. That set the table incorrectly. What you do is you go on and you could convince him. By the way, the right message that would have said, hey look, you don't need them and you don't want them, nobody cares about them over in Iran. Over here it sends a great signal if we get our hostages back I think you could probably end up making the deal. CUOMO: I'm just saying, we have every reason to believe in the people who are at the table that they said that.

TRUMP: Chris you would have gotten the hostages back. Kerry said he didn't want to even talk about the hostages...

CUOMO: No, that we know...

TRUMP: ...because he didn't want to complicate the negotiation, Chris.

CUOMO: I think -- I understand what you're saying, but I think it's a little different than that. I think that it was a topic of conversation. They didn't want to balance the entire deal on the hostages.

TRUMP: They don't know to think about negotiation. They didn't read "The Art Of The Deal." They never will. The Iranians are great negotiators, the Persians have always been great negotiators. They are laughing in Iran right now at how stupid we are.


COOPER: Well, they were just getting started. Just ahead more of Chris' interview with Donald Trump. He's no longer playing nice with Ben Carson and he has more to say about Carly Fiorina as well.


[21:27:31] COOPER: In that new polling out tonight, republican candidate Ben Carson has gained 10 points. He's at 19%, second only to the Donald Trump. Mr. Trump often says that he doesn't attack unless others attack him first. And yesterday, Dr. Carson made the first move questioning in his own quiet way Trump's authenticity. Up until then, Trump had only good things to say about Carson. Clearly, the honeymoon is over. Here is part two of Chris Cuomo's interview with Donald Trump.


CUOMO: Ben Carson, he's also making a lot of traction. He's feeling good about himself enough that he's coming at you. He is a man of faith everybody knows that, it's a cornerstone of his existence and certainly his motivation to run.

TRUMP: Well, I don't know that. I mean, I hadn't heard that. You know, I've known Ben Carson of him for a long time. I never heard faith was a big thing until just recently when he started running. So I don't know about Ben Carson's faith.

And all of a sudden he becomes this great religious figure. I don't think he's a great religious figure. And I saw him yesterday quoting something -- he was quoting on humility and it looked like he just memorized that about two minutes before he made the quote. So, you know, don't tell me about Ben Carson.

CUOMO: Well, but Ben Carson is coming at you too. He says..

TRUMP: He's starting to hit me so I hit back. I only hit back when I get hit. I'm a great counterpuncher.

CUOMO: Let me ask you...

TRUMP: But Ben Carson, you're talking about his faith, excuse me, Chris...

CUOMO: Please.

TRUMP: ...go back and look at his past. Go back and look at his views on abortion and see where he stands. You talk about abortion, I mean go back and look at his views on abortion well. Now all of a sudden he gets on very low key, I mean frankly he looks like -- he makes Bush look like the Energizer bunny. He's very low key. He's got a lot of...

CUOMO: Strong words.

TRUMP: ...a lot of people pushing him but Ben Carson, you look at his faith and I think you're not going to find so much. And you look at his views on abortion, which were horrendous and that's, I think, why I'm leading with all of the evangelicals. I'm, as you know in your poll, number one, I'm leading Ben Carson by a lot. You know, you said, oh, Ben Carson is surging. Well, I'm almost double his numbers. So, you know...

CUOMPO: Oh absolutely. But I'm saying, he came out of nowhere is all I'm saying. He's not a big celebrity. You know, people didn't know about him. He doesn't get anywhere...

TRUMP: Well, I only bring this up Chris where is -- Chris I only bring it up because I saw him hitting me yesterday. He's questioning my faith.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something.

TRUMP: I happen to be a great believer in God and great believer in the Bible.

CUOMO: He is definitely questioning your faith.

TRUMP: He -- Chris, who is he to question my faith when I am, you know, I mean he doesn't even know me. I've met him a few times but I don't know Ben Carson. He was a doctor, perhaps, you know, an OK doctor by the way, you can check that out too. We did not talking about a great -- he was an OK doctor.

[21:30:05]CUOMO: He was a -- I don't know about OK doctor. He was the first man to separate conjoined twins.


TRUMP: And now because he's a doctor and he hired one nurse, he's going to end up being the president of the United States? But for him to criticize me on my faith is absolutely -- and for him to read from the bible in his memory, it looked like he memorized it about two minutes before he went on stage but...

CUOMO: Do you think you're more a man of faith than he is?

TRUMP: Ben Carson is not going to be your next president that I can tell you.

CUOMO: Do you think you're more man of faith than Ben Carson is?

TRUMP: I would say -- I know I can't quote him. I can only say I am a man of faith. I can't -- I don't know enough about Ben Carson. But if you look at his past, which I've done, he was not a big man of faith. All of a sudden he's become this man of faith. And he was heavy into the world of abortion and he was a doctor. And take a look at the hospitals where he worked. He was a doctor, check out the past, and see. All of a sudden he's -- oh, he's totally, you know, anti -- he's totally anti-abortion. Well, if you look back, you will find he's a very much different Ben Carson. Now one other thing...

CUOMO: Please.

TRUMP: ...he shouldn't be questioning my faith because number one, I'm leading with the evangelicals. I'm Protestant. I'm Presbyterian. I have great relationships with the people of Iowa, with New Hampshire, with South Carolina, and he shouldn't be questioning my faith, you know why? Because he knows nothing about me. I've met him a couple times.

CUOMO: All right, so maybe you guys should get together. Let's move on to another topic. You had a "there he goes again" moment. First it was Rosie, then it was Megan, now you got Carly Fiorina. They got you in Rolling Stone magazine making fun of the way she looks. Why do you talk about how women look so much, you know, it's not presidential, it's probably not even kind.

TRUMP: I'm not talking about, look I'm talking about persona. Look, here's another one.

CUOMO: You said, "Look at that face." You said "Look at that face."

TRUMP: I'll say some nice things about you at least so that they'll say at least he says nice things about some people.

CUOMO: I'll take it.

TRUMP: The fact is that Carly Fiorina has had a terrible past. She was fired viciously from Hewlett-Packard. The --

CUOMO: But then you should say that.

TRUMP: The dean of the Yale Business School who's a highly respected man, Jeffrey Sodenfeld, wrote a paper that was one of the worst papers on CEOs. She goes down as one of the worst ever. The company practically created but that's...

CUOMO: But then you say that.

TRUMP: Excuse me Chris, wait. Thousands of jobs gone, stock price gone, still hasn't recovered. It's a total disaster but still hasn't recovered. They are trying hard, but she was a disaster CEO. She had a company before that's called Lucent, which in my opinion and in my memory was even a worse catastrophe than Hewlett-Packard. She then gets fired from Hewlett-Packard. She runs for the senate against somebody that could have been beaten easily, she loses in a landslide and now she's running for president.

Now, when I said that and "The Rolling Stone" article had moments of beauty and great and this and I did like the pictures actually, one of the few magazines where I actually liked the pictures. So the photographers were good. The writer actually called me and he said I'm so upset. I wrote this great story and Jan Winters screwed it up. He told me that.

CUOMO: All right.

TRUMP: Because they added a lot of stuff, a lot of garish stuff that I think is disgusting. But they added it. Excuse me, wait. So -- but Carly -- the statement on Carly, I'm talking about her persona. Her persona is not going to be -- she's not going to be president.

CUOMO: Yeah, but I don't know about that.

TRUMP: She's a terrible, terrible failed time.

CUOMO: I don't know about that. I'll tell you why. I hear everything you say about the record. They are all legitimate bases for criticism that you can level against one of your opponents, but I'm reading the quote for what it is, "Look at that face. Why would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that's the face of our next president, I mean she's a woman, I 'm not supposed to say bad things but really, folks come on. Are we serious?"

TRUMP: I'm talking persona.


TRUMP: And when she hits...

CUOMO: Where's persona in that?

TRUMP: hair I know that's OK and you won't defend me.

CUOMO: That's best tit for tat.

TRUMP: Because my hair is -- and by the way I think you know me well enough, it is my hair.

CUOMO: Somebody comes on my air and makes fun of your hair, I'm going to tell them to shut up and move on to something else. If somebody does that to you on my hair and they said reason he shouldn't be president is because of his hair, look at his hair. I'll say, shut up, let's talk about something else because it's unkind and un- presidential.

TRUMP: You don't have to defend me. I'm not looking for anybody to defend me. I'm just saying, when she and other people hit me on things, nobody ever comes to my defense. So I'm just saying this...

CUOMO: You come to your defense.

TRUMP: She only had a terrible time in business. She destroyed a company. She -- if you have to get the report from Jeffrey Sonenfeld of Yale, he's the expert on Carly. It's a disaster. And check out Lucent beforehand. So, you have Ben saying what he said. You have Carly saying, these are two people that will not be president.

CUOMO: All I'm saying is that you are the frontrunner. You say that you're going to be president of the United States. There is a manner of behavior that goes with that. I'm not saying be Mr. P.C., I'm not saying be captain gentility and let everybody beat you up, but the idea of returning a blow every time you receive one, you know that doesn't work in any high level situation.

TRUMP: Well, I'm a believer. Perhaps you are not. Let me -- maybe that's what your show isn't doing as well as it should be.

CUOMO: Oh, you see that's not nice. That's not nice.

TRUMP: Let me just tell. Let me just tell you.

CUOMO: That's not nice. You're attacking me for asking you a question. See that's my point. What kind of president does?

[21:35:04] TRUMP: When Ben Carson criticizes or questions, he doesn't even know me. You know what, I met him. He comes to my club in Palm Beach, OK. I have a great club at Mar-A-Lago in Palm Beach, he comes to my club. I hardly know Ben Carson. When he questions my faith and I'm a believer, big league in God, in the Bible, and he questions my faith and he doesn't know me, that's -- and you say I'm not supposed to hit back. I will hit back on that.

CUOMO: No, I don't say you are not supposed to hit back. I'm saying...

TRUMP: And I think that the evangelicals understand me. First of all, they know I'm going to run the country properly and I'm not going to let everybody rip us off and take our jobs and take our money. And that's very important to the evangelicals. They are very smart people. And they also know I'm a man of faith. I don't want Ben Carson criticizing my faith, certainly when he doesn't know me.


COOPER: Well, we will have more of the interview just ahead. Mr. Trump weighs in on the Kentucky clerk who went to jail for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses. Also ahead, why the New York police commissioner apologize today to tennis great, James Blake?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: When Donald Trump talked to Chris Cuomo this morning, tonight's new poll numbers hadn't yet been released. Mr. Trump was hours away from learning that he'd cracked the 30 percent threshold of voter support adding points to put him at 32 percent. Here's part three of Chris' interview with the republican frontrunner.


[21:40:00] CUOMO: Let me ask you about a couple more item so that we have for your issues that will be very relevant to you if you're the president of the United States. The Kentucky clerk situation. There is a culture war going on in this country. You've had the Supreme Court, you have the ruling that same sex-marriage is the law of the land that you of course know that. She says, I'm not going to do it because it's against my faith. She's a public servant. She was elected to do the job of giving out licenses, not decide who gets them on that basis. What do you think of her?

TRUMP: Well, I think I'd like that she may be go. I hated that she went to jail first of all.

CUOMO: She chose to go as you know.

TRUMP: I hated that. But -- and now she's out. But I must tell you that, you know, we are a land of laws. I would like to see her get a different job or at least let the clerks do that particular work. We are, you know, in a position that's been a terrible situation that's taken place out there. And I understand both sides of the argument. And I embrace both sides of the argument.

You know, I can -- you can embrace both sides of an argument, but it would be really good if she could either stay and let the clerks do that work that she can't do, or in the alternative, get herself something else where she doesn't come into conflict. But -- and, you know, that's the way of handling it. It's something that's going to work its way out, but it is a messy situation. No question about it.

CUOMO: The tone that you've put into the campaign is starting to move through into different candidates. You go after Jeb Bush, you got this commercial where it's like a Sominex commercial, you got him falling asleep. Now he's trying to up his game it seems and come at you a little bit. I don't know if you saw what he did on Colbert. Did you see it? Did you hear about it? Do you think it was effective? Did you think it was funny?

TRUMP: I thought it was OK. I mean, he was put in a very bad position because he was given these cue cards to read that he didn't know anything about. I actually think he's a nice person, but he's -- you know, he's not a natural entertainer. And he was put into a position that was very uncomfortable for him. And I mean, it was something he didn't want to be doing. And, you know, so it was fun, it was fine and he did fine. But he was put into a position that he really didn't want to be in. And he could have really said I'd rather not do that I guess would have been better. He's probably saying this stuff will haunt me for the rest of my life, but, you know, it's one of those things. I mean, it's fine. CUOMO: Do you think as you continue to stay at the top of the polls, if it stays that way and you wind up getting into a general against somebody else, do you think you will campaign and deal with opponents the same way where every time they say something about you, you go back at them. At some point, do you think you have to shift tone into what is seen as being more presidential?

TRUMP: No, I have to win. I have to win. I have to put this country back. This country is in such trouble. We owe $19 trillion. We're getting ripped off by China, Japan, Mexico, everybody. Mexico both in trade and at the border. I have to do what I have to do to win. When a Ben Carson makes a phony statement like he made, I'm going to attack him. And if Hillary says something incorrect, look, Hillary was the worst secretary of state in the history of the United States. I think she will be superseded by John Kerry because this deal that he is making with Iran will take him over the top. I think he's actually going to go down as worse than her. But Hillary was truly -- did a terrible job. The world blew up around her, OK? It blew up. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that.

Now you know it's sort of interesting because in the polls and you see, I'm leading with African-Americans. I've got the highest poll number in the history of the Republican Party primary things. I've got 25 percent and I'm also -- I think you saw, leading with Hispanics and everybody fell off the chair when they heard that. But I love the Hispanics.

CUOMO: You have increased your percentage in both of those categories, that's true.

TRUMP: I'm leading with Hispanics and I'm leading with the African- Americans. Well, if that's the case and if I'm going to get 25 percent African-American, we're going to have a tremendous victory for the republicans. There's no republican has ever gotten more than 9 percent or 10 percent. And I said I'm going to do great with the African-Americans because I'm going to create jobs. And Obama is not creating jobs for them.

CUOMO: Well, as he...

TRUMP: I'm going to create jobs and I'm going to create wealth for them. So, I've been saying this for a long time. So, when that poll came out two days ago that I'm leading with African-Americans and leading with Hispanics, I was the only one that wasn't surprised.


COOPER: So, just to be clear what he says he says about Carly Fiorina's face because he is saying that he was talking about her persona, but I just want to read what he actually said. He said, "Look at that face, would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that? The face of our next president?" It certainly does not sound like he was talking about her persona.

CUOMO: Anderson, let me tell you something, when she was at HP, she did a horrible job and she was -- you see that, all of a sudden the question is gone.

COOPER: Right.

CUOMO: That is part of Trump's genius with the media. Of course, you're right. Now, I was getting nervous. When you put your glasses on, I know the heavy is about to come. I was actually nervous for a second. When he doesn't like a question, he does what most politicians do which is he goes another direction.

COOPER: Like he is trying to ring a shiny object here to deflect.

[21:45:00]CUOMO: And it works. And it works. Not only that he ignored the question, but he has a very good way of making a point that wasn't anything to do with your question.

COOPER: But for the guy who's supposed to be the straight talker, telling it like it is, no holds barred, he does say things that he then kind of walks back, but doesn't admit he's walking back and sort of makes it -- pretend as if what he actually said was not what he really said? I mean, he's making it seem like everybody who heard, who read that Rolling Stone thing just misunderstood.

CUOMO: What he's doing that's working is saying you want to criticize me for something that I don't think people really care about and I'm going to tell you what I think they really care about instead of answering your question because you are and then it's fill in the blank. And with Carly Fiorina, look, there is no debate about what he said. I think there's very little debate about the suggestion he intended. The question is do people care?

COOPER: Right.

CUOMO: Look at the polls with women, within his own party in the independents, he is leading.

COOPER: Right.

CUOMO: As things continue, the CNN Debate that's coming up and the more intense measurements of these people, you can't just say that the other people stink. More and more, it will be intensive and he will have to put meat on the bones. I'm not saying he can. I'm saying he'll have to.

COOPER: Right. We'll be watching. Chris, thank you. Fascinating interview.

CUOMO: I like it better when you interview him and you come on my show and tell me what it was like.

COOPER: Chris did a great job there interviewing Trump this morning on New Day.

Just ahead, New York's police commissioner apologizing to tennis great James Blake who was tackled by police, handcuffed him, what the commissioner is calling a case of mistaken identity. That's next.


[21:50:18] COOPER: Tennis Star James Blake was tackled and handcuffed by as many as five plain clothed police outside a Manhattan hotel. Now, Blake had not done anything wrong. He was just standing there waiting for a car to pick him up and take him to the U.S. Open. Police finally realized they had the wrong guy. New York's police commissioner says it was a simple case of mistaken identity. Jason Carroll has more.


JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Known in the court for his powerful forehand, tennis star and former Olympian James Blake once ranked fourth in the world, now the victim of a clash off the court after being roughed up by the New York City Police Department.

What would you like to hear from you?


CARROLL: Blake was leaving his hotel Wednesday, the Grand Hyatt in Manhattan around noon. He was headed to the U.S. Open when suddenly an unidentified man ran toward him.

BLAKE: A body picked me up and body slammed me and put me on the ground and told me to turn over and shut my mouth.

CARROLL: Blake went on to say that he was handcuffed out here on the ground and he told the man who tackled him that he was cooperating. Blake also says at no point did that man ever identify himself.

BLAKE: Not a badge in any way showing. Not around his neck, not on his belt, anything. The police officers that walked up later I saw a couple badges on belts, but none were really displayed.

CARROLL: Police say this is a case of mistaken identity. New York City Police Commissioner Bill Bratton says the plain clothed officers were working a case involving fraudulent credit cards. They say Blake fit the description of a suspect. As for the officer who tackled him...

COMMISSIONER WILLIAM BRATTON, NEW YORK POLICE DEPT.: The use of force was such that I'm comfortable that it's in the best interest of the department to place the officer on modified assignment until the investigation moves forward.

CARROLL: Blake is biracial. The question is whether police would have used such force had Blake been white. The father of tennis greats Serena and Venus Williams is doubtful.

RICHARD WILLIAMS, FATHER OF SERENA AND VENUS WILLIAMS: I've heard that. It was no surprise. We've heard so many things happen in the people with my (inaudible) and my color and it's not surprising.

BRATTON: I don't believe at all that race was a factor. That's not involved in this incident at all. CARROLL: Police would not release a photo of the suspect. Whether or not race was a factor, one thing is clear. Blake says he was angered and humiliated by his experience.

BLAKE: Because I thought about what I would be thinking if someone did that to my wife, if someone tackled her in broad daylight, paraded her around in a busy crowded sidewalk in New York City with handcuffs, with her cuff behind her back and taking away her dignity and I just -- I couldn't accept that.


COOPER: And Jason joins us now. So the police apologized. What did they say?

CARROLL: Well, yeah, they called Blake, spoke to him at length this afternoon and apparently, Blake, according to police, did accept Bratton's apology. Blake also said that he would reach out to the mayor. The mayor has been trying to reach him, as well. He said eventually he would meet with internal affairs. He would meet in person with Bratton and with New York City's Mayor, but again, the big question here that Blake I'm sure is going to raise is the question of force. Anyone could understand mistaken identity. It's unfortunate, but it does happen. But the big question that Blake is going to be asking is would police have used that much force had he been white?

COOPER: And also not identifying themselves as police for him to see.

CARROLL: And not identifying themselves and holding him at handcuff for up to ten minutes.

COOPER: All right. Jason, I appreciate your reporting. Thank you very much. James Blake will actually be on this program tomorrow night. He will be joining us for that.

Coming up, something that make you smile at the end of the day, The RidicuList is next.


[21:57:29] COOPER: Time now for The RidicuList. Tonight, I want to talk about the weather. We're less than two weeks from the official start of fall, but here in New York, it's still pretty warm. We hit 90 degrees yesterday which kind of makes me long to be in the United Kingdom, particularly a town in Wales were the high was only 70. It's in Northwest Wales, a little town called (inaudible). There's no one who could possibly pronounce the name of that town.


LIAM DUTTON, BRITISH WEATHERMAN: Now today, we had a big contrast in temperature across the U.K. just 12 degrees in the coast of parts of Eastern England with cloudy skies, but in the sunshine in Northwest Wales, the town right after (inaudible). Just up the road from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch the temperature got to 21 Celsius, that's 70 in Fahrenheit. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Say what now? That was weatherman Liam Dutton for British Channel 4 News breezing right through the pronunciation of Europe's longest place name, 58 letters long. Let's just hear him do it again.


DUTTON: Just up the road from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.


COOPER: Come on now. You know he practiced that to make it seem like it was just nothing. I am impressed. Dutton told the Daily Mail he learned Welsh when he was younger and it's just the sort of word that you practiced. Let's hear it one more time, shall we.


DUTTON: Just up the road from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch...


COOPER: Gogogoch -- that's the gogogoch kind of always gets me. So, the town even has the pronunciation posted at its train station. Yes, I see the pronunciation. I'm still not going to be able to do it. The only way you're going to hear that name come out of my mouth is by some act of ventriloquism. I have trouble even saying the word ventriloquism. I learned that the hard way on the RidicuList of your.


COOPER: Times have changed, ventriloquism has -- ventriloquism -- times have changed -- ventriloquism. It kind of makes me want to learn more about -- no, I'm not going to keep going. It makes me want to learn more about the art of ventriloquism. Hard in me again, kind of makes me want to learn more about the art of (inaudible).


COOPER: It's nice to know the RidicuList never forgets.

Getting back to the 58-letter town in Wales, weatherman Liam Dutton master of subtlety says it was just an ordinary day at work with a very long name. That's easy for you to say on the RidicuList. Well done, tally-ho. That does it for us. We'll see you again 11:00 p.m. Eastern another edition of 360. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.

DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT HOST: Ladies and gentlemen, this is going to be good. The stage is set for our CNN Debate in just six days and everybody is taking shots at the surging Donald Trump.

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. For those who are keeping score at home, here's where we stand right now.