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Stage Set for CNN Presidential Debate in Six Days; Trump Tops Polls; James Blake vs NYPD. Aired 10-11:00p ET
Aired September 10, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: This is going to be good. The stage is set for our CNN debate in just six days. And everybody's taking shots at the surging Donald Trump.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. For those who are keeping us for at home, here's where we stand right now. Donald Trump says to Carly Fiorina, and I quote here, "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that?" Fiorina says this to Megyn Kelly, who you recall had her own blood feud with Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Maybe, just maybe, I'm getting under his skin a little bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Trump, then hits back saying this to our Chris Cuomo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm talking about her persona. Her persona is not going to be -- she's not going to be president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Jeb Bush tells our Jake Tapper this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't see how over the long haul that you can insult your way to the nomination or the presidency -- certainly not the presidency, and not the nomination, either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And the beat goes on. Trump says this to Greta Van Susteren.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Many of those comments are made as an entertainer because I did "The Apprentice." It was one of the top shows on television. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Everybody's taking aim at the $10 billion candidate topping our new CNN poll at a whopping 32 percent. Meanwhile, it is crunch time. Look at this. Breaking news. Her lead falling to just 10 points in the new CNN poll. Falling 10 points in the new CNN poll.
We'll get to all of that tonight. With all of that, our CNN debate next Wednesday is shaping up to be a night to remember. One of the questioners will be Mr. Hugh Hewitt, the host of the Radio's Hugh Hewitt Show, and the author of "The Queen: The Epic Ambition of Hillary Clinton and the Coming of the Second Clinton Era," and he joins me now.
We have a lot to talk about. First of all, let's talk about those candidates and we'll talk about Hillary Clinton's shrinking poll numbers. It was just announced the top candidates for the CNN debate -- CNN's big debate that's coming up in September 16th in just 16 days.
Here they are. Look at this. Carly Fiorina makes it in on Wednesday. Carly Fiorina makes it in. This is going to with one heck of a night, isn't it?
HUGH HEWITT, THE HUGH HEWITT RADIO SHOW HOST: Oh, it's going to be the rumble at the Reagan or the showdown, slam down in the scene. So, it's only going to get better between now and Wednesday, I believe, Don. So, the audience will be significant. The stakes are going to be very high for a number of these people.
And I think what you just played with Donald Trump underscores his national advantage. And I keep saying this, the only one in the race on either side who has 11 seasons of prime time television with extraordinary ratings and all the trainings that goes with the timing and the cut-in and the humor is Donald Trump. So, I think you have to consider him a prohibited favorite even in an 11-way match.
LEMON: He knows how to use the media. You know, you were on the show just two days ago, and the attacks have ramped up since even since then between Carly Fiorina, Donald Trump, and Carson, Jeb Bush, Bobby Jindal. What do you make of all of these republicans crashing each other at this point?
HEWITT: Well, I had on four today. Jeb Bush, John Kasich, Scott Walker, and Bobby Jindal. And a few of them took shots, Bobby Jindal took the hardest shots with Donald Trump. One, John Kasich said, I'm not going to get into that, I'm not interested.
So, the candidates divided into the camps that want to engage Donald Trump and those that don't. Those that don't include, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and John Kasich. Everyone else with Walker kind of in between have decided they have to go after the great white whale with as many harpoons as they can.
But, Donald, kind of thrives on this. And so, here's the point I do want to make, Don, before I forget. Fourteen years ago tonight, whatever we were talking about was blown away by the attack on America, the next day.
Three years ago tonight, whatever we were talking about was blown away by the attack on the embassy. By the time the debate comes around on Wednesday, everything we're talking about tonight, including Chris Cuomo's extraordinary interview, and I heard some, for the first time, some of the things he said to Anderson Cooper.
I haven't heard this morning, for example, Donald Trump saying about Jeb Bush, "He's not a very good entertainer. He's not very naturally talented about it." And then hearing him talk about, "I'm in favor of the deal with Iran but I'll do a better deal."
There's a lot of meat out there that the world never hears because we condense it down. That's why they publish the audio and transcript at HughHewitt.com all of the time, so that my interviews are available for people who want to go deep. And I think that's a good trend. Because there is so much information out there. And it could all be blown away by events tomorrow. I pray not, but it could be.
LEMON: And you're right. Because people just used to read headlines these days are just short snippets of what's actually happening. But let's talk a little bit more about what you said. As we reported last night, Donald Trump made some skating remarks about Carly Fiorina in Rolling Stone Magazine. I asked today to defend those comments and this is what he said to Chris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:05:00] TRUMP: But Carly, the statement to Carly, I'm talking about her persona. Her persona is not going to be -- she's not going to be president.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN JOURNALIST: Yes, but I don't know about that.
TRUMP: She had a terrible, terrible failed time.
CUOMO: I don't know about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So, he is supposed to be the truth teller, Hugh. He says he's talking about her persona. But he quote, "Look at that face." Do you think that this hurts his brand? People because -- most people aren't buying it.
HEWITT: I don't know what hurts his brand. I think Donald Trump's brand is a brand that grows regardless -- if you remember, the old Steve McQueen -- I think it was Steve McQueen movie, "The Blob," everything just kept growing until it was frozen.
And so, he keeps growing and he gets bigger and bigger. So, I have no idea and I have no favorite. And I have no desire to speak for Carly. She speaks for herself.
I will say what was interesting was the rest of that interview when Donald Trump talked about the Iran policy and slammed the deal. Today, the Senate refused to debate the deal. This despicable on the part of the democrats. And Donald Trump knows that.
So, I'd like him to have more time trained on the democrats, less time trained on other republicans. But, of course, like you, me, Chris Cuomo, everybody loves the conflict. So, they lead him there.
LEMON: Yes. He calls the counter -- the counter puncher. I want to ask you, though, at this point where we are now. Do you see him to likely emerge as the nominee?
HEWITT: I see a broken convention. I'm one of the very few people have been saying this for a long time. But the rule set is such that no winner take all primary cures until March 15th.
On March 15th, John Kasich is going to win Ohio, either Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio is going to win Florida. Texas is two weeks before and Ted Cruz will get the most delegates there. Donald Trump could very well win South Carolina but only get 40 percent of the vote or Lindsey Graham might block him.
Here's what I see. I just see it going all the way to the convention. So, that a Chris Christie, who's got a super PAC behind him. Has every incentive to stay in the race until June 6th.
And the California primary, believe it or not is actually going to matter in the way that it hasn't since 1968 when Bobby Kennedy won it. And had Kennedy not been tragically assassinated he would have been the nominees.
So, you know, just make your calendar clear and book two weeks of rooms for Cleveland because the convention is going to be wild.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, sir. Another event. I mean, you talked about Bobby Kennedy that precluded what was happening in the polls and in the news at that time.
Thank you. Thank you, sir, Hugh Hewitt, we'll see you on Wednesday, if not before. Let's move on. We want to talk about the democrats.
Now we have some breaking news, it is on Hillary Clinton. Her lead nationally falling to just 10 points in the new CNN ORC poll. Clinton at 37 percent, Bernie Sanders at 27 percent, Joe Biden at 20 percent. He hasn't even officially gotten to the race.
I want to bring in Bob Beckel now, political analyst and columnist for USA Today. Bob, when you look at those numbers, what the heck is going on here?
BOB BECKEL, USA TODAY POLITICAL COLUMNNIST: Well, it's a number. First of all, Don,, we've got to stop being like this. But I think what you're seeing here is that Hillary Clinton is not been a popular democrat in the sense that she has made enemies along the way. She's not as warm a candidate.
And a lot of those numbers you see on the other side are not necessarily for Sanders or for Bidden, but rather against Clinton. So, I think she got a formidable row, but nonetheless, she still has an organization and lots of money. And the idea that somehow she's in trouble, I don't buy that right now.
LEMON: Not only, Bob, is her lead dwindling, she no longer has this significant advantage against the top republicans. Let's put it up here. She loses to Ben Carson. She loses now related to Jeb Bush, he's tied with Donald Trump.
I mean, this is not terrible news. It got to be, I should say, a terrible news for democrats. And let's put up here. If it was a Clinton-Bush match-up, he beats her by two points, it's 49 to 47. If it were a Clinton-Trump match-up, it's pretty even, 48 to 48, it feel like where it held today. Clinton-Carson, Carson beat 51 percent to 46 percent.
BECKEL: Yes. But let's keep in mind where we are now, Don, so we can perspective on this. I mean, polls taking in the late summer the year before our presidential election are always a little bit suspect, number one.
Number two, I think they reflect certain things. I mean, going back to Trump for a second, Trump continues to hold and increases his leads in the face of doing some things that would normally crush another candidate.
But let's keep in mind, where Donald Trump is, there's a fine line between being tough, which is what he likes to be and being mean. And I think this Fiorina thing is mean. And that's the best you're going to catch up with him.
Well, it's the same thing with Hillary Clinton. They're trying to humanize her, whatever that exactly that means. But, look, this is a woman who's played on defense her entire political career. She's always been...
[22:09:59] LEMON: So, she thinks she's better on defense? Do you think she's better when she plays safely?
BECKEL: Yes. Well, I think she said that.
LEMON: Well, that's where she is now. And the question is, though, listen, it wasn't real then because we didn't know who was going to be ahead in the polls. Who was going to surge when it came to republicans.
LEMON: She was way ahead of these guys. Way ahead of the republicans and way ahead of Bernie Sanders.
BECKEL: Yes. So, please keep in mind that republicans have gotten a lot of media attention. Bernie Sanders has gotten a lot of media attention.
BECKEL: And she's had to face this ongoing e-mail thing. I mean, I said on CNN the other day, that she should apologize for that.
LEMON: You did.
BECKEL: At least as a start at the least. And she finally, eventually, did. I'm sure she must have been listening to me. But the fact of the matter is, that kind of thing whether the republicans will keep that alive.
If you noticed, the republicans have all turned their attention on her, too. I mean, that's where the attack points have been. They haven't attack Sanders. They haven't attack Biden. They've attacked her. So, she's about where she usually is, which is under attack.
But when she get stand to be up against one of them, then the experience she has is going to play out, I think, well for her. But I wouldn't, you know, it's a tough thing to have three terms in a row for one party in the White House. So, she's got a lot running against her. I think she should hope that there's certain candidates that she would rather run against than others.
LEMON: Who do you see her as -- do you see her or Bernie Sanders at this point?
BECKEL: I see her, and the reason for that is whether democratic delegates selection process is done except oppose accuses talking about for the republicans is proportional representation.
But when you get to super choosy, she's heavily organized, heavily financed on those states. And it's like a firewall she's put up.
BECKEL: The last time around she didn't do well against Obama in the caucuses. This time around she's learned how to organize here caucuses. So, I think the fact that she's done it before means an awful lot.
BECKEL: So, Sanders is there for -- but Sanders can beat her in both Iowa and New Hampshire.
LEMON: And that won't be good for her. If it happens, you know, beyond that, then she's really in trouble. But let's move on. You mentioned Carly Fiorina, of course, I want to get the reaction to this latest in Trump. I want you to listen to what we just said a short time ago on Fox about his attacks on a phone, that's including Carly Fiorina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Many of those comments are made as an entertainer because I did "The Apprentice." It was one of the top shows on television. I decided not to do it again because I wanted to run for president. But some comments are made as an entertainer. And as everybody said, as an entertainer is a much different ball game. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He is dismissing his ridicule of Carly Fiorina and other -- as entertainment, a different ball game. Do you find that revealing at all?
BECKEL: Yes, I think it's revealing. I mean, it's amazing to me how he always after he does something like this because back and back fills in with some excuses for why he did it. In this case, he said it was her persona, he was talking about another face of her.
Anybody who read that article has to recognize that he was talking about what she look like. And the entertainer thing, you know, the president is not going to elect his entertainer.
You go back to Ronald Reagan who say, yes, yes, GE theater and all that. But, and he was in the movie, but he was a governor first. So, I think that that excuse is a little bit weak.
But, look, every time he comes up with an excuse and we think it's weak, everybody else thinks it's pretty cool. so far he gets away with it. But the closer you get...
BECKEL: ... the closer you get to voting in Iowa and New Hampshire, he's going to have to start filling in some of the blanks here. For example, Iran. He slightly have said, I'd like to deal with Iran, but not this one. What is it that you don't like about it and what would you change.
LEMON: Yes. So, let's move forward to Wednesday. Who do you think is going to emerge in a stronger position after this debate?
BECKEL: Believe it or not, I think Jeb Bush will. And one of the reasons for that is he's been willing to take on Trump. He said to take on Trump because Trump has been after him over and over again. You notice now that Trump seems to take on second place. First, now he's up to Ben Carson.
But I think Trump, and, I mean, Bush and Carson probably because they've been the focal point of so much of his ads, his attacks rather, probably could do well by standing toe-to-toe in answering there is what is Carly Fiorina going to do.
And If I were her, I would turn that into a massive joke on him. And I think people will take to that very well.
LEMON: I'm not sure.
BECKEL: That's for our -- the guy is step -- gotten me.
LEMON: I'm not sure if you can see the monitor. If we can put that back up there, that's a lot of people that is going to be up on that stage. BECKEL: I know it's the other stage. Wow. Yes. How are you going to
ask all these questions? It's going to be like, how much time is it going. Is it two hours, three hours?
LEMON: I think it's like, four hours. No, it's going to go on for a while. Listen, it's the best thing on television. If it goes on for a long time, then we are all going to be watching.
BECKEL: Yes, of course. Every one has got to watch and that's going to be good for CNN. And, you know, this other people...
LEMON: It's good for the election props.
BECKEL: ... yes, the chance -- they haven't had a chance to get any air at all here.
BECKEL: I mean, has anybody heard from Gilmore or anybody heard from these any of these other people that are Pataki, I mean, a lot of other people don't even know he's running for governor -- and for president.
[22:14:57] LEMON: Yes. Well, we'll see. We'll be watching on Wednesday. We always appreciate your input. Thank you, sir.
BECKEL: Thank you very much.
LEMON: Thank you, Mr. Beckel. When we come right back, a former GOP front runner versus a Clinton crusade or Michele Bachmann goes head- to-head versus David Brock.
Plus, the latest on a former tennis star tackled and handcuff by police outside his New York City hotel. What the city's top cop says about James Blake.
LEMON: Donald Trump topping his GOP rivals in the new CNN poll with 32 percent. What does it mean for the republican race? And for Hillary Clinton, as a matter of fact, who is struggling in the democratic polls.
I'm joined now by Michele Bachmann, former congresswoman and former GOP presidential front runner as well, and David Brock, the author of Clinton -- and author and Clinton supporter. And your book is coming out soon, correct?
DAVID BROCK, AUTHOR & CLINTON SUPPORTER: Yes, next week.
LEMON: OK. Next week. OK. So, I have to ask to ask you this, we were talking a little bit before this. This summer, is it considered silly season for politics because there is a lot of craziness going on? It's a real boxing match with the republicans right now. Is that surprising to you? MICHELE BACHMANN, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, this is called
the primary. So, we're in the middle of the primary season and we're seeing the debates, much fewer debates than we've seen before. So, now it's just getting the issues out.
I think the good thing is that it's really been a lot about the issues and people have been engaged. And I think that's exciting.
[22:20:02] LEMON: Let's look at a little bit of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I don't see how, over the long haul, that you can insult your way to the nomination or the presidency -- certainly not the presidency.
LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When he said something about Carly, the way she looks, we know exactly what he meant. He meant to hurt her, to be mean to her. So, at the end of the day, I just think Mr. Trump would lose because he's not qualified to be president.
BOBBY JINDAL, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a complete narcissist. It's been a fun show. The idea of Donald Trump is great, the reality is awful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Ok. So, I remember talking to you last when you ran. It didn't seem like it started so quickly, congresswoman. Do you think voters -- is this what voters want to see at this point?
BACHMANN: Well, what I saw this week -- I was in D.C. I spent a lot of time this week in D.C. because of the Iran deal. And Donald Trump was there talking about the Iran deal. So, it was about the issues. Ted Cruz was there talking about the Iran deal.
So, what I've been seeing is a lot of focus on the issues. I've see the clips that you're showing and there is personality and that, you know, those are the clips. What I've been seeing and hearing is a lot about the issues.
That's what's really been engaging people. Because remember, Trump's big rise was on the issue of immigration. And he touched a nerve with a lot of people. Especially when you see what's going on in Europe right now.
So, I think we're going to continue to see a lot of topic on immigration issue. But also a lot on the Iran deal. People do not like this Iran deal and Donald Trump has been saying a lot about that, as well as Ted Cruz and the other candidates.
BACHMANN: And so, we're going to hear more.
LEMON: And we saw this week because there was rally held yesterday. And everybody is there and -- yes. Absolutely.
BACHMANN: Yes, I was speaking there. Donald Trump was speaking through and it's a big issue.
LEMON: You used to be a conservative. Now you're one of Hillary Clinton's sponsor supporters.
BROCK: Yes. That's right.
LEMON: In fairness to say, correct?
LEMON: I want you to listen to her comments about what he said -- what Donald Trump said about Carly Fiorina and then you'll respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And there is one particular candidate who just seems to delight in insulting women every chance he gets. I have to say, if he emerges, I would love to debate him.
LEMON: So, she has, you know, she's getting balder in the press. I think you will agree to that. But her numbers have dropped. Her support has dropped. Is this what she needs to do in order to rise in the polls again?
BROCK: Well, look. You know, you had in her segment the polls are ephemeral. And if you went back to 2011 at this time, and said polls were going to determine the result, we'd have President Rick Perry or President Herman Cain. So, this is a marathon.
BACHMANN: Or president Bachmann.
LEMON: Or president Bachmann. That's right. That's right. You think the words.
BROCK: Absolutely. So, this is a marathon. It's not a sprinter. Look, we're moving into the debate season on the democratic side. We haven't had any yet. And, on substance, Hillary Clinton beats the entire field. She's the only one, frankly, I think in either party, with a clear political vision. And people know that she can get the job done.
LEMON: I don't know what you're saying.
LEMON: But it does speak to momentum wouldn't you say, because if you looked at both sides, right?
LEMON: She was ahead of Bernie Sanders. Or any whatever possible democrat -- like double digits. She was ahead of the republican candidates by double digits. Let's just say with the republicans right now, if it would help with Clinton and Bush, Clinton would get 47, Bush would get 49 percent.
If the election were held today, Trump would get 48 percent, Clinton will get 48 percent. Clinton will get 46 percent, Carson will get 51 percent. It does show momentum.
BROCK: Well, sure. Look, I think that, one, I'm not sure the republicans, what's dominated the republican debate or the issues. It's really Donald Trump and it's a lot of bullying and name calling and it's a race to the bottom.
So, I think that's going to hurt the whole republican brand, Don. So, when we actually get to the general, and I believe Hillary Clinton will be in that race, that brand is really damaged.
LEMON: For the first time -- go ahead.
BACHMANN: Well, it's been remarkable, though. Because Donald Trump's numbers show that he's the highest with African-Americans that any republican has ever been. And the highest with Hispanics that any republican has ever been.
And I think it has to do with the issues. Because I don't think Hispanics and African-Americans are going after Donald Trump because I think he's being mean to women. I think just the opposite.
I think what they're seeing is he's talking their language. They want job. They want their standard of living.
LEMON: Here's the thing. You can respond to that but let me give this number because for the first time today, I think 51 percent of republicans think Donald Trump will be the eventual nominee. Go ahead with your response.
BROCK: Well, sir. Well, look. I've looked forward to that debate as Hillary Clinton said today between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. But let's go back to the sexism and what happened today with Carly Fiorina. Hillary Clinton was out there standing up for women. Will you?
BACHMANN: Of course. I stand for women every day. I'm also a mother of...
BROCK: So, what do you think of what he said. What do you think of what he said about Carly Fiorina? BACHMANN: I'm also a mother of a lot of daughters. I'll tell you what he's saying, is that people recognize when he's talking about immigration he's talking them, he's talking about their lives.
BROCK: Oh, no, about Carly Fiorina.
BACHMANN: But that's the reason.
BROCK: The sexes attack.
BACHMANN: His poll numbers are going up.
BROCK: I'm talking about the sexes attacks.
BACHMANN: Well, let's agree to that. His poll numbers just went up. Hillary's just went down. And it's because nobody believes a thing she says anymore.
BROCK: So, you won't answer the question.
[22:24:58] BACHMANN: No, no. Nobody thinks -- believes the things she says anymore. She won't tell the truth about the server. And so, people understand that she hasn't been truthful with the. And they want their lives to be better.
BROCK: You don't understand.
BACHMANN: That's where every republican candidate that's out there, they're talking about issues. And I think that's where we're going to see in the upcoming debate.
BACHMANN: The question is, will democrats actually have debate. That's the real question right now.
LEMON: OK. But then, also, the question is, too, whether or not the attacks on women, whether or not they're sexes. And I think that's the question that David is asking.
BROCK: Yes. And Hillary is out there.
LEMON: But before you answer...
BACHMANN: Well, this is an old meme about war on women. This is what Hillary has been trying to say from the beginning. That's war on women hardly. It's been just absolutely the opposite. You've got a very strong candidate and Carly Fiorina and all the other republican candidates are supporting her and her ability to be on stage.
LEMON: All right. Hold that thought. Stick around. We're going to do -- we're going to talk again with you guys. We're going to keep here a little break and then we'll talk again. We'll be right back.
LEMON: We're back now. Donald Trump up in the polls. Hillary Clinton struggling in a new CNN poll.
Back with me now a former congresswoman Michele Bachmann, and David Brock, author and Clinton supporter.
[22:29:58] So, let's talk about -- we were talking about this war on women. And he said, will you stand up for women because people -- many people deem, especially with the latest thing with Carly Fiorina, deemed that comment as sexes.
Do you think it is sexes; will you stand up for women as he said by?
BACHMANN: I think all this kind of stuff is, like, nonsense. The main thing that really, honestly, the voters are thinking are the 54 million women of working age who aren't in the work force today because there aren't jobs out there for them. That's what women want.
LEMON: So, this is superfluous do you think?
BACHMANN: Oh, my, gosh. I mean, I'm a woman. OK. The only woman here on set right now and I can tell you what women want is a sense of security. They want to know that somebody in their family has a job and that somebody is bringing food home and that you can have a good life.
I mean, that's really what it's about. People want to have a good life.
BACHMANN: And I think that's what the whole election will be about.
LEMON: Let's move on now because you said that you look forward to a Trump-Clinton debate, correct?
DAVID BROCK, AUTHOR & CLINTON SUPPORTER: Sure.
LEMON: He said as much tonight. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I probably can think of nobody I'd rather debate. She was the worst Secretary of State in the history of this country. Although I think John Kerry is going to top her with his crazy deal that he's made with Iran, which is one of the worst of I've ever seen of any kind of a deal.
But Hillary, until now, is the worst Secretary of State in history.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, ON THE RECORD SHOW HOST: Well, let me ask you about that.
TRUMP: I think beating her - I think beating her in a debate would be one of the easy challenges of my life that I can say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You first and then I want to ask the former congresswoman. Because, you know, there's nothing more I think that you would like to see in the debate, is those who go back and forth about Iran. But I'll let you answer first and then you. What do you think about a debate between those two, who comes out on top?
BROCK: Oh, I think Hillary Clinton does by a mile, more than a mile. Look, Donald Trump is a bully. He's a name caller. You just saw some really reckless charges. He leveled at Hillary Clinton.
I think there's no contest when they both get up on the stage who's the serious one, who's the substantive one, who has the experience. Donald Trump doesn't.
BACHMANN: Well, there is no contest. And the fact is, the American people overwhelmingly reject this Iran deal. Because what they see is the Ayatollah yesterday said that Israel won't exist 25 years from now.
LEMON: This really seeks in your cry. You want to talk about this Iran deal.
BACHMANN: So, why in the world would we make the Ayatollah a trillion dollar killer? Why would you give him a trillion dollars? I mean, he's the world's largest killer of the world's leading terror state, why would you give him a trillion dollars?
Hillary Clinton just came out again today and said she favors this Iran deal. Donald Trump doesn't. You want to talk about compare contrast? He believes that all lives matter, especially Israeli lives. And he's going to stand for that.
You can't stand for Israeli lives if you're Hillary Clinton and you're for giving a trillion dollars and nuclear bombs to the Ayatollah? That's exactly what's going to happen under this deal. And Donald Trump opposes that and all the other candidates on the republican side oppose it.
LEMON: Do you think that's what's going to happen with this deal because of the people who put this deal together including Hillary Clinton who's at least started, put the wheels in motion as Secretary of State by saying that is completely false. That's not true. That's never going to happen.
BROCK: I think one as you just referred to, one of her great achievements as Secretary of State were putting the top sanctions in the place that brought us to this place. And if you saw her speech the other day, she is the kind of tough, global leader that you want when this agreement is executed.
BACHMANN: But she wanted to lift the sanctions.
BROCK: She wanted a strong America.
LEMON: We're getting ahead of ourselves. There's supposed to be a primary to see who gets there.
LEMON: Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump or whoever gets there. But then also, there's this controversy over the e-mails, which I know is very important to you. Because you feel that it's...
LEMON: ... that it is fake. All right. I want you to listen to -- this is part of her apology. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everything I did was permitted. There was no law. There was no regulation. There was nothing that did not give me the full authority to decide how I was going to communicate.
I am sorry that this has been confusing to people and has raised a lot of questions. But there are answers to all of these questions.
I could have and should have done a better job answering questions earlier. I really didn't perhaps appreciate the need to do that. That was a mistake. I'm sorry about that. I take responsibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You can literally see that she's sort of evolved over time on how she responded to this. But clearly, you sit on scandal, but this has hurt her. Tremendously.
BACHMANN: What a question.
BROCK: You had 17 republican candidates solely focused on Hillary Clinton for months. You've had a Benghazi committee on Capitol Hill that's failed in its investigation, even investigations led by republicans that morphed into this e-mail non-scandal.
And then you had collusion between those operatives and the New York Times. And that New York Times is particularly damaging because it is the newspaper of record.
But, you know, you have to take my word for it. Take their own public editor who's faulted these stories and call them a mess.
And so, is there a little momentum question here? How would, you know, anybody under that deserve attack...
BACHMANN: But the fact, but this is a big -- this is a big issue because America's national security has been compromised. We know that foreign nations have take -- have gotten access to American information because this is an unprotected server.
[22:35:12] This is a private server. This is classified information.
BROCK: That's not true. This was -- hold on.
BACHMANN: And the Secretary of State recklessly put this information on a private server. And that could have hurt America. That's a serious issue. And that's why Americans are really upset.
BACHMANN: And they deserve answers. That's why you want to talk about faith, that apologies, what was fake, and people don't appreciate that disrespect.
BROCK: But, hold on. Not only was the law follow this. President followed. But this system was safe and secure.
BACHMANN: I don't think so.
BROCK: There were 61,000. Hold on, there's 61,000 hacking incidents in the U.S. government last year.
BACHMANN: Well, you're misinformation do us all. Listen. This is why federal governments were so worried.
BROCK: The system was not hacked.
BACHMANN: They knew that they wouldn't give their information over to her server because they knew that their information wouldn't be secure.
BROCK: No, no. It was safe and secure.
LEMON: That is the last word on this.
BACHMANN: And that's according to Inspector General.
LEMON: You guys, I have to -- will you guys come back?
BACHMANN: For you? Of course.
LEMON: Thank you, David. Thank you, Congresswoman. BACHMANN: You're welcome.
LEMON: I appreciate it. The candidates are turning up their attacks on Trump. This two on each other, sort of.
So, on next week's debate be about substance or mudslinging? We're going to debate that next.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Six days, six days and counting until our CNN debate. Donald Trump surging in the polls. The GOP rivals stepping up their attacks.
I want to talk about all of this now with democratic strategist Maria Cardona, Washington Times columnist, Charles Hurt, and CNN national political reporter, Maeve Reston.
So, I would call you guys my dream panel. But you've got a lot of work to do, you know, to compete with what just happened here on CNN.
Charles, I'll start with you. The tone of this race getting really harsh. Donald Trump lashing out. His opponents are fighting back. Is it going to be a slug fest, do you think?
CHARLES HURT, WASHINGTON TIMES COLUMNIST: Oh, I think without any doubt whatsoever it is. And I also think with Congresswoman Bachmann said a minute ago about for there have been a lot of issues going on here. But, obviously, we love to focus on the more entertaining side of things.
But I think even that has been, there is substance there. But what we're seeing from Donald Trump is he's sort of putting on a clinic of how you sort of drill down to get to the core of who people are.
And, yes, some of these attacks, some of these people may sound silly or sound like they're not important. But they're regulatory. And I think that people, take Jeb Bush, for example, the people leaving him in droves, I think, because they've seen a version of Jeb Bush that they didn't think they wanted to be president.
And, you know, a lot of people may not like the idea that these people are turning to Donald Trump and saying, but we like that guy. It's a leadership thing and he's winning that fight.
LEMON: All right. we're going to get to more on Bush and sort of his change in personality, him, you know, being a little bit more animated, a lot more animated at least. But, Maeve, I want to ask you this.
HURT: More energy.
LEMON: More energy. Maeve, CNN's poll taken before his remarks before his remarks about Carly Fiorina, show a surge in support among republican women, 33 percent. That is up 13 percent since August.
That's interesting because a lot of people have been saying that remarks like those are going to hurt his standing with women.
MAEVE RESTON, CNN'S NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I think that that's going to be a test over time. We keep coming back to this point again and again that Trump is doing well with everyone. So, when you look at slices of the electorate right now, he's getting attention from every one and he's potentially bringing more people into the process.
But I think the question is, how these remarks wear over time and at what point they stop being entertaining to some voters.
I was at Carson's rally in Anaheim earlier this week and there were a lot of voters in that crowd who said I would not support Trump under any circumstances. It's too much the other -- it's too much back and forth. I don't like the tone of the debate. And I think that we may see that big into emerge as a trend line more and more over time.
LEMON: I'm surprised that we haven't see this moment played more in the media because this was back in 2010. This was Carly Fiorina with and open mic. She ran against Senator Barbara Boxer in California. She was caught with an open mic. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Louder saw Barbara Boxer briefly on television this morning and said what everyone says. God, what is that hair? So, yesterday. You did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, her explanation, Maria, was that she was quoting a friend. But the question is what's good for the goose is good for the gander? What's going on here?
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Karma, huh, Don? It is not pretty. But I think what you're going to see, you talked about whether we think this debate is going to have fireworks? I believe it is. Because Fiorina is going to be on the stage now with Donald Trump.
His remarks calling her ugly. And not only that, but you had, finally, a lot of the other republican candidates really chiming in and essentially saying that remarks like that are unacceptable. That is something that we haven't seen in quiet a long time.
I think the biggest phenomenon that we're seeing here, the biggest change, is that again, the other republican candidates have finally put on their big boy pants and said, look, we don't want somebody on this stage who is clearly becoming somebody that the voters are seriously looking as commander-in-chief, who is narcissistic, who is chauvinistic, who is xenophobic, who misogynistic.
And they are finally saying, and they should have done this a long time ago, because there were plenty of opportunities, that this is not someone who the voters should...
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: That is a lot of 'istics.'
CARDONA: ... all be considering as commander-in-chief.
LEMON: That's a lot of 'istics.' But speaking of that...
CARDONA: But -- that's right.
LEMON: Let's move on.
CARDONA: But they're challenges. They haven't put anything out there as an alternative for voters.
LEMON: OK. Let's move on because I want to talk about Jeb Bush now. Here's what he said tonight about Donald Trump. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:45:05] JEB BUSH, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's talk about Donald Trump. As Stephen Colbert said, let's talk about the big, orange elephant in the room. That's a joke. That's humor, Donald. Don't tweet. Please, please. Go to sleep. Take some rest.
BUSH: He sits up at night. He sits to do this stuff, so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, I said more animated. You said what? More funnier? I forgot what you said.
HURT: Less low energy.
LEMON: Less -- OK. So, is this a turning point for him? Is it working?
HURT: He ripped off somebody else's bad joke and then told it badly, as Trump would say. I don't see how any of these changes anything and I think what is exactly right. One of the things that Donald Trump has exposed is that all of the other candidates are completely failing to sort of measure up to him and to steal any thunder away from him.
One thing I think that I think maybe a lot of people would agree with this is the fact that I actually, though I like so much about Donald Trump, I don't like this idea of him attacking Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina.
You know, I think it's been so important about this primary so far is that the two -- the three people who have been such standouts are all people who are nonpoliticians. They come from other walks of life.
Donald Trump should -- you know, he makes a wonderful living out of attacking the politicians. He should leave the nonpoliticians alone.
LEMON: Yes. HURT: They are good people and he didn't get anything politically by attacking them.
LEMON: And, Charles, that's going have to be the last words.
HURT: Thanks also.
LEMON: Charles, Maria, and Maeve, thanks to all of you. See you again soon.
RESTON: Thank you.
LEMON: When we come right back, what New York's top cop says about tennis star James Blake him taking tackled and handcuff by police outside his hotel.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have breaking news tonight on tennis star James Blake mistakenly tackled and handcuffed by police in a sting gone bad outside a New York City hotel.
Well, Police Commissioner Bill Bratton says, quote, "I spoke to Mr. Blake, a short time ago and personally apologized for yesterday's incident."
Mayor de Blasio also wants to apologize. Let's discuss now with Charles Blow, CNN political commentator, New York Times op-ed columnist, and also, Tom Verni, former NYPD detective; and legal commentator Areva Martin join us as well.
OK. Charles, to you first, what was your reaction when you heard what happened to James Blake?
CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's disturbing, obviously. Because, and you want to know why there was no effort to identify him before the use of force was used. And when you -- and that, I think, disturb everyone in this particular case and in cases like that.
In all of the cases that we've been encountering over the last two years, it's always -- almost always about excessive use of force and whether or not that use of force was legitimate and called for.
LEMON: Especially with someone who is nonviolent at the time.
LEMON: Here's what he said, Tom, on GMA this morning. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES BLAKE, TENNIS STAR TACKLED BY NYPD: They put me on the ground and told me to turn over and shut my mouth and put the cuffs on me. And I told him the first words out of my mouth were I'm going to 100 percent cooperate. You know, I don't want any incident or whatever. It's just -- out of reaction from what I've seen in the media, I don't
want any sort of miscommunication. I just...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were communicating this with him as your...
BLAKE: Those were the first words out of my mouth. Because that's what I understand cooperate. I don't know what happened, but I'm going to cooperate with you. And they put the cuffs on me at no time did he let me know he was a police officer.
He just put the cuffs on me and said stand up and, you know, and I ask what was going on and he said we'll tell you soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, obviously he's affected by watching all here and then all of a sudden, this happening to him. Is this type of force consistent with someone who is a nonviolent suspect?
TOM VERNI, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: No. I ask if he's been part of the bald men brigade. That was part of -- but, now this is not standard operating procedure under all circumstances. And he's the exception, actually.
Most people, when you tell them that they're under arrest or, you know, they're being held for question or whatever they automatically going to be apprehensive and all hands up in the air. He seemed to be the model, you know, person.
You know, being compliant and following the officer's orders. So, some clear as to why this also felt he need to, you know, the commissioner said that he felt that he used a little too much force. Internal affairs is going to investigate that. And if there was a case and he's going to be disciplined.
LEMON: Here's what -- Areva, I want you to listen. This is what Police Commissioner William Bratton said about race as a contributing factor to what happened yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BRATTON, NYPD COMMISSIONER: I don't believe at all that race was a factor. White police officer, Mr. Blake is evidently African- American. This has to put a race tag on it, I'm sorry. That's not involved in this incident at all.
We have probable cause on the part of the officer. Two witnesses who say that's him. I'm sorry. That doesn't denote there is a racial angle to this at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Your response, Areva? AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I listened to James talk
about this incident. And he said, in some cases, he definitely believes excessive force was used. And he's not really sure about the race issue.
But I read a statement by his mother. And what his mother said is look, this is a biracial man who was profiled as a teenager and she had some concerns that race did play a factor. And I just don't like the fact that the chief is categorically denying the opportunity to investigate whether race was an issue or not.
Maybe it wasn't a factor. But I think if we're going to do an investigation particularly given the narrative that's been played out over the last year or two around police excessive of African-American. At least the question should be asked and it should be a part of the investigation to make sure that race wasn't a factor.
And if it was, to deal with that issue. But we can't close it off before we even investigate it.
LEMON: I'm sure that there are cases of mistaken identity. It happened to everyone. But the numbers show that it happens to minorities, black and brown people, especially men more. I had similar incident happened to me. Your son had a similar happened incident, so.
[00:04:59 BLOW: Yes. Absolutely. It was very much like this. You know, an officer unfolds his gun, ask him to get on the ground before asking him any identifying questions because he looks like a suspect that he was looking for.
LEMON: And by the way, the suspect, we don't really know what the actual suspect looks like.
BLOW: I don't...
LEMON: Because the person they had in custody was a mistaken suspect that he looked like. So...
BLOW: And to this day, I don't know who -- what the suspect looked like in my son's case because they never told -- they never showed a picture. Not to me, anyway.
BLOW: And so, I think what you end up having is patterns. You can't say in any particular case shaking inside anybody's head and say this happened for sure, this absolutely didn't happen. Take it, but, in the pattern...
VERNI: I mean, Charles.
LEMON: I've got to go, Tom. But I think that if there's anything good, and I think Areva will agree, this one is that he is a voice and a face for this now. And people can see. MARTIN: Absolutely.
LEMON: And he has the means to be able to talk about it and give it some life.
LEMON: We're out of time. Thanks for everyone. I appreciate all of you joining us.
MARTIN: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: That is it for us tonight. We'll see you back here tomorrow night at 9. On Friday, will be on at 9 o'clock. Make sure you tune in.