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Bernie Sanders Leads In Poll; Clinton Campaign Getting Nervous; Clinton States She Is A True Democrat; Clinton Pleads Guilty Of Being A Moderate; Trump States We Look Like Beggars; Candidates Debate Iran Nuclear Deal; Interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders; Trump Defends Controversial Comments. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 10, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, the presidential race by the numbers here in the United States. Donald Trump widens his lead over his Republican rivals and Bernie Sanders edges ahead of Hillary Clinton in yet another key state.

In a new CNN ORC poll released this morning, Donald Trump now at 32 percent. The first Republican presidential candidate in the field to top the 30 percent mark. Ben Carson is at second place with 19 percent followed by Jeb Bush at nine percent.

Take a look at this, 51 percent of Republicans now say Trump is most likely to win the GOP nomination, 19 percent think Bush will be the nominee, 11 percent think Dr. Carson will be the nominee.

On the Democratic side, dramatic numbers. Bernie Sanders has now caught Hillary Clinton in Iowa in a new Quinnipiac University poll. Senator Sanders edges Hillary Clinton, 41 percent to 40 percent. The vice president, Joe Biden, who has not yet announced whether he's running in this presidential contest, he's at 12 percent.

Democratic presidential candidate, Bernie Sanders, is here with me to talk about what's going on. We've had many conversations over these months. You must be stunned. And be honest, be honest, that you're ahead in Iowa. You're ahead in New Hampshire. This other Monmouth University poll in New Hampshire has you up by nine points in New Hampshire, now up one point, according to this Quinnipiac poll in Iowa.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, you want me to tell you the truth.

BLITZER: Tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

SANDERS: Yes, I'm stunned. Look, we have a message that I believe -- I believe, from day one, was going to resonate with the American people. And the message is there's something wrong in this country when the great middle class continues to disappear.

Almost all new income and wealth goes to the top one percent. When millions of families cannot afford to send their kids to college, when we're not addressing the planetary crisis of climate change.

And, Wolf, a huge issue out there. We have a corrupt campaign finance system as a result of citizens united where billionaires are able to buy elections. The American people are saying, no, this is not the kind of country we want to be. So, I thought that those issues would resonate. But did I think they would resonate as quickly as they have? The answer is no.

BLITZER: Why -- so, why are you going up in these numbers, in Iowa and in New Hampshire, and Hillary Clinton is going down in (INAUDIBLE)?

SANDERS: Well, I can't speak to, you know, what's going on with the -- with Secretary Clinton. But what I can tell you is we've been around New Hampshire and Iowa, the bigger cities, the smaller towns, and people are sick and tired of establishment politics. They're sick and tired of establishment economics. They don't want to see billionaires getting more tax breaks and cuts to Social Security which is what many of my Republican colleagues are proposing.

And, by the way, don't get upset with me here. They're getting tired of establishment media. They would rather see serious discussion about serious issues, rather than so much of what we see.

BLITZER: Earlier in the week, you said, "The Clinton campaign," and I'm quoting you now, "is getting nervous about the kind of energy and enthusiasm our campaign is bringing forth." Explain what's going on.

SANDERS: I'll give you an example. Just --

BLITZER: Why are they getting nervous?

SANDERS: This is why they're getting nervous. I was in New Hampshire on -- just the other day. And we were at a parade in a town called Milford. We had 300 to 400 people coming out in that -- it was 94 degrees. 94 degrees. Three to 400 people coming out to march in that parade with me. Later on in the afternoon in Concord, New Hampshire, we opened up a small office. Two hundred people were in a parking lot over 90-degree heat.

We're seeing this kind of response. We're seeing more and more people getting involved in the campaign. I don't have a super PAC. I'm not going to take money from billionaires. I don't want their money. But we have, now, over 400,000 people who have made individual contributions. And you know what the average contribution is? It's all of $31.20.

BLITZER: Is the Hillary e-mail controversy, in your opinion, hurting her?

SANDERS: Look, I mean, I think it's, clearly, not helping her. But I think the reason we are doing well is because the issues we are talking about, the need for a political revolution that says that the billionaire class can't have it all, that you need a Congress and a government that represents all of us and not just large campaign contributors. That is what's resonating with the American people.

[13:05:10] BLITZER: She sounds as if she is getting a bit nervous about your dramatic surge in New Hampshire and now in Iowa. She says, no, repeatedly. I am a proud Democrat. I am a true Democrat. She doesn't mention you by name, but the implication is you're not a Democrat, you're an independent. You're a socialist. That's the implication I'm getting when I hear her say that.

SANDERS: Well, look, it's no great secret. Everybody knows it. You know it. I am the longest serving independent in the history of the United States Congress. That's -- and I'm proud of that. The people of Vermont sent me to Washington, because they were unhappy with both political parties. I made a choice over four months ago, as somebody who has caucused with the Democrats from my first day in the United States Congress. I was chairman of the Senate Veterans Committee, now ranking member in the Senate. I worked very closely with Democrats that I would run within the Democratic primary and caucus process. And, you know, we're doing well in the process.

BLITZER: So, are you a proud Democrat and a true Democrat, as she says she is?

SANDERS: I am going to be doing everything that I can to see that the Democratic Party is successful in November. And let me say this, you know, some people say, well, you know, Bernie, you can't win this election. And let me repeat what I said before. In November, the Republicans didn't win the election. The Democrats lost the election, because the voter turnout was abysmally low. Low-income people not voting, 80 percent of young people not voting

Wolf, if you come to the rallies that we hold, what you're going to see is a lot of working class people. You're going to see a lot of young people who are now prepared to get involved in the political process. And the way the Democrats win, not only the White House but Congress and legislatures and governor seats, is when we have large voter turnout. I think I could do a good job in expanding the voter turnout.

BLITZER: She is in Ohio today in Columbus, and she painted herself as a moderate. And she said, I plead guilty to being a moderate. Do you plead guilty to being a moderate?

SANDERS: No. I am somebody who, for the last 30 years, has stood up and fought for working families. I have taken on virtually every special interest in the country from Wall Street to the drug companies. I am a proud progressive.

BLITZER: Do you want Joe Biden to jump into this race?

SANDERS: I neither want him to jump in or not to jump in. That is very much a personal decision that the vice president has to make. I've known Joe for many years. He is an incredibly decent guy. And all I say is that if Joe Biden gets into the race, I will do my best to make sure that we have an issue-oriented campaign. I don't do negative ads. I don't get engaged in personal attacks. Let's debate the issues of Joe Gibson. That's great. If he doesn't, that's OK, too.

BLITZER: Well, just your analysis, because you're a politician, if he gets in, does he help you against Hillary Clinton or hurt you? In other words, does he take votes away from her or does he take votes away from you?

SANDERS: The answer is -- you know, I'm not an expert in this stuff, who knows. Some people think it will help me. Some think it'll help Secretary Clinton. What it does do is it makes the votes that you need to win this thing -- you don't need 50 percent or 48 percent. You need 35 percent. That's the (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: On the issues, on policy issues, --

SANDERS: Yes.

BLITZER: -- the most important issues that are driving you, what's the biggest difference between you and Joe Biden?

SANDERS: Well, let me -- I -- Joe is not in the race. I don't want to speculate about Joe. But I will tell you the differences between the secretary and myself. I voted against the war in Iraq. I believe, over a period of years, we should raise the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour. I believe we should reestablish Glass-Steagall to start breaking up these large financial institutions on Wall Street.

I am very opposed to our current trade policies and helping to lead the effort against the trans Pacific partnership. The secretary has not made a decision on that. I am strongly against the Keystone Pipeline, because I think we need to radically transform our energy system. The secretary has not made a statement on that as well.

BLITZER: So, those are some of the major differences. We have a lot more to talk about, including Donald Trump who is now way ahead in the Republican contest. Senator, hold your thoughts for a moment. We will continue this conversation right after this.

[13:09:27]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We were begging for this deal. We looked like a bunch of beggars. We were begging for this deal. The Iranians are great negotiators. The Persians have always been great negotiators. They're laughing in Iran right now at how stupid we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Republican presidential frontrunner, Donald Trump, slamming the Iran nuclear deal on CNN's "NEW DAY " earlier this morning. The U.S. Senate is scheduled to hold a procedural vote on the deal at 3:45 p.m. later today.

Back with us is the Vermont senator, the Democratic presidential candidate, Bernie Sanders. You like this deal, this Iran nuclear deal. Donald Trump says it's the worst possible deal. A lot of Republicans, they hate it. Are you OK with it, because they're going to get $100 billion, the Iranians, and they can do with that whatever they want.

SANDERS: Look, this is not the deal that I would write. It's not the deal that you would write. But, you know, Wolf, I get very tired of hearing the rants and ravings of Republicans who, apparently, have not forgotten the lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan. I voted against the war in Iraq. And I think that war will go down in history as one of the worst foreign policy blunders in and among the history of our country.

BLITZER: Do you think that that negates Hillary Clinton because she voted for it?

SANDERS: That's not my point. The point is to take us to where we are today. If you do not negotiate an agreement -- remember, this is not an American agreement. This is with five other countries plus Iran. Tough negotiating. If we -- our goal must be to make sure that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. Everyone agrees on that. It will be a disaster for the region, a disaster for Israel, increase the arms race in that area.

What Republicans keep ignoring is the cost of war. If you don't negotiate an agreement, what's your alternative?

[13:15:11]

BLITZER: If you were president of the United States and they violated the agreement, the Iranians, would the military option, the U.S. use of military force against Iran to prevent it from becoming a nuclear power, be on the table?

SANDERS: Of course it would be on the table. Military option is always on the table, but it must be the last option. You know, and I get really upset. I'm the former chairman of the Veterans Committee and I learned a little bit about the cost of war. Of not only the 6,700 brave men and women who died in Iraq and Afghanistan, the 500,000 -- 500,000 -- who came home with PTSD and traumatic brain injury. The $4 trillion we spent on those wars. What the president is trying to do, and I agree with him, is to do everything that we can to achieve our goal of Iran not having a nuclear weapon without going to war, period.

BLITZER: So -- so what do you say to your critics, I'm talking about Democratic critics, who say, you know what, he's really just a socialist pacifist. He voted even in 1991 against the Operation Desert Storm to liberate Kuwait.

SANDERS: I am not a -- I am not a pacifist. You know, I voted for the war in Afghanistan. I voted to support President Clinton trying to deal with ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. Sometimes military force is what is need. But what a great nation is about, the most powerful military on earth

is about, is doing everything that we can to resolve international conflict without a war. And I do get very upset at people who are so prepared to send other people's kids into that war. So I support what the president is trying to do. If it does not work, if Iran cheats, we can rescind the provision on sanctions. The military option is always a possibility. But let us do everything that we can to achieve our goal without going to war.

BLITZER: The White House now says the president has directed the administration to make preparations next year to admit 10,000 Syrian refugees into the United States. Are you with him on that?

SANDERS: Yes, I am. Look, you have a humanitarian crisis which is heartbreaking. People are leaving Syria. They're leaving Iraq, by the way. And with the clothes on their back. And I think this is a European issue, by the way. I think it is an issue that Saudi Arabia and some of the other wealthy countries in that region should also embrace. You know, they're part of the cause of the problem. They should take some of the refugees. So should the United States.

BLITZER: How would you, as president of the United States, destroy, defeat ISIS?

SANDERS: I don't think anyone has a magical answer, but this is what I do believe. I do not believe that the United States can or should do it alone. You know, I get a little bit tired of countries like Saudi Arabia, who border on ISIS, telling President Obama, please send combat troops in, but we don't want to get our hands dirty. You are very wealthy and, Saudi Arabia, among other things, has the third largest military budget in the world. I think you need the countries in the region to be leading the effort with the support of the United States and the other wealthy, powerful western countries throughout the world.

BLITZER: I know you're making a major move today on a domestic issue, prescription drugs. You say they're way too costly. You're working with Elijah Cummings --

SANDERS: Yes.

BLITZER: The Democratic congressman from Maryland. What's your point now? What could you, as president of the United States do, to reduce the cost of prescription drugs?

SANDERS: Do two things. First of all, we pay by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. One out of five people in this country who gets a prescription from a doctor cannot afford to fill that prescription. That's totally crazy. So what happens to those people? They get sicker, maybe they even die.

What we need to do is, number one, have Medicare negotiating drug prices with the pharmaceutical industry. Three major drug companies made $45 billion in profit last year. That's obscene when millions of people can't afford drugs. And the second thing we do is that we allow the United States and distributors and pharmacists to reimport drugs, prescription drugs, from other countries like Canada where their prices are much, much lower than they are in the United States.

BLITZER: If you were president, would you work to get a single payer health care system in the United States, move away from Obamacare and maybe get Medicare for all of America?

SANDERS: In my view, the Affordable Care Act has done a lot of good, but there are still 35 million who are uninsured. We continue to pay -- spend far more per capita on health care than do the people of any other country. So, yes, I want to move toward a Medicare for all single payer program which will guarantee healthcare to every man, woman and child. We are the only country, major country on earth, doesn't guarantee health care to all people. I want to see that end.

BLITZER: What do you think of Donald Trump?

SANDERS: Well, I think he's obviously a very flamboyant guy. I think he's clearly doing a lot better in the Republican process than anyone thought he would. I am sad to say that in the year 2015, people like Trump are using racism as a way to attract votes. You don't talk about Mexican-Americans or people from Mexico as rapists or as criminals. That is not what we should be talking about in this country today. I would have hoped we have -- would have gone beyond that kind of racism.

[13:20:22] BLITZER: When he says some of the people who have come into the United States, the illegal immigrants from Mexico, some of them turn out to be rapists or criminals.

SANDERS: Well, and so do some white people and so do some black people and so do some everybody people. But his remarks were totally objectionable and they were racist.

BLITZER: Do you want more debates because the chair of the DNC, Debbie Wasserman Schultz says there are going to be six Democratic -- authorized Democratic debates, presidential debates, and that's enough.

SANDERS: Look, when so many people have given up on the political process, when we have a pretty low voter turnout, I think debates are a healthy aspect of democracy. I think the exchange of ideas on the important issues facing our people is a very positive thing. Yes, so I am in favor of more debates. Absolutely.

BLITZER: One final question. You just had a birthday. You just turned 74 years old. Donald Trump is 69 years old. Hillary Clinton's 67, almost 68 years old. Some say, you know what, all of these people, they're too old to be president of the United States, to which you say?

SANDERS: I don't know about these other people, I feel good. Look, thank God I am blessed with good health. I can't remember the last day off I had as a result of sickness. I'm running an energetic campaign. I would not have gotten into this unless I thought I could run a vigorous campaign and be a very strong president.

BLITZER: Could you really see yourself as being president of the United States?

SANDERS: Increasingly, yes.

BLITZER: Running against Donald Trump?

SANDERS: Well, Republicans will nominate their candidate and I'll run against whoever they have.

BLITZER: Well, you're running and you're doing well. By the way, Joe Biden's 72 years old. So if he comes in, he'll be a contemporary as well.

Senator, thanks very much for coming in.

SANDERS: (INAUDIBLE). Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Good to have you here on CNN.

Bernie Sanders, he's now the front-runner in both Iowa and New Hampshire according to these latest polls.

For the latest, by the way, in politics and all the presidential contenders, head over to cnnpolitics.com.

Still to come, Donald Trump tries to clarify comments he made about one fellow Republican presidential candidate, then swings hard at another. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:29] BLITZER: Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is defending comments he made about one of his GOP challenger's looks and going on the attack against another's faith. Trump appeared on CNN's "New Day" this morning and defended comments he made about Carly Fiorina to "Rolling Stone" magazine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): But, Carly -- the statement about Carly, I'm talking about her persona. Her persona is not going to be -- she is not going to be president.

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": Yes, but I don't know about that.

TRUMP: She's had a terrible, terrible, failed time at --

CUOMO: I don't know about that. I'll tell you why. I hear everything you're saying about the record. They're all legitimate bases for criticism that you can level against one of your opponents. But I'm just reading the quote for what it is, "look at that face. Why would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that's the face of our next president? I mean she's a woman, I'm not supposed to say bad things. But really, folks, come on, are we serious?" That's not about persona.

CUOMO: And, Chris, I'm talking persona. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's talk about this. Joining us from here in Washington, our political commentator S.E. Cupp, joining us from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, CNN political commentator Jeffrey Lord. He's also a former Reagan White House political director.

S.E., Trump says he was talking about her persona, not necessarily her looks. Do you buy that?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No! Does anyone? You know, the problem for someone like Donald Trump is he has predicated his entire campaign on being the candidate who tells it like it is, who is straight talking, who isn't a politician who has to kowtow to special interests. He can speak his mind. So he can't have it both ways when he says it like it is and then say, well, that's not what I meant. We're going to take him at his word, whether he is talking about Megyn Kelly's whatever or Carly Fiorina's face. You can't -- you can't say that I'm a straight talker and then say, unless you don't like what I said, and then, in that case, I'm going to give you another word. I'm going to substitute it. It's gibberish. It's nonsense.

BLITZER: Jeffrey, what do you think?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I find it very interesting. Rush Limbaugh was just saying a little bit ago, and I looked this up to verify it. I remembered it once he mentioned it. That In 2010, when Carly Fiorina was running for the U.S. Senate against Barbara Boxer, she was seated in front of, believe it or not, CNN cameras waiting to go on and she said, I'll read the quote, "God, what is that hair? So yesterday." In other words, making a nasty crack about Barbara Boxer's physical appearance.

Well, the world didn't end. Nobody's bringing that up. And I would suggest that's because basically it wasn't that big a deal. If it's a big deal for Donald Trump now, then it was a big deal for Barbara Boxer then. I mean for Carly Fiorina. I mean this goes right to the heart of the real problem here. You've got -- in that CNN poll, as I said to S.E. earlier this morning, 91 percent of the women in that poll think the economy is either the biggest issue or the next biggest issue. That's what they're concerned about. They're not concerned about this and Donald Trump went up 13 points with women in that poll after the whole Megyn Kelly incident.

BLITZER: All right.

LORD: So I just think, you know, people don't buy this.

BLITZER: S.E., go ahead quickly and respond to that.

CUPP: You know, I think you're right that women are concerned about jobs, in which case we should be talking about Scott Walker cutting unemployment in half in Wisconsin, Carly Fiorina holding on to millions of jobs at Hewlett-Packard, other candidates' records on jobs instead of talking about Donald Trump and what he thinks of Ben Carson's faith or Carly Fiorina's face. But that's not what he actually wants us to talk about. He wants to have these media moments so we're not focused on the record that he doesn't have and the ideas he cannot defend.

[13:30:01] BLITZER: All right, hold on for a moment because I want to move on to what Donald Trump also had to say about another Republican presidential candidate, the number two candidate according to the polls right now, Dr. Ben Carson, in that same interview earlier today.