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Awaiting Trump Speech Aboard USS Iowa; Trump Protest; No Specifics in Trump Speech Aboard USS Iowa; Beyond Words; How to Prep for Taking on Trump. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired September 15, 2015 - 21:00   ET



[21:00:25] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Hey, good evening from the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, Southern California. Tomorrow night, the CNN Republican Debate, 15 candidates in all, four, in the early debate, 11 in primetime, two, Donald Trump and Dr. Ben Carson far ahead right now in the polls, one just minutes away from speaking tonight not far from here on the Los Angeles waterfront. Donald Trump has in fact just stepped aboard decommissioned battleship USS Iowa. He's being introduced right now. He's expected to talk somewhat about national security, or however, his views on border issues are drawing protesters at the event tonight. Sara Sidner is with them, she joins us now. Sara, what's the scene outside?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you. There's about 200 to 250 people and we're walking through the crowd a little bit. Lots of different signs, Anderson, and just behind me I'm going to from Mike just flip around and let you see that is the USS Iowa there and on the back of the USS Iowa, Trump is speaking. About a thousand people expected to attend the Trump event, but down here, these aren't folks who have tickets as you might imagine, these are folks who are here who are angry with Trump and they got all sorts of signs. Some of them very provocative like this one here saying "Unmask Donald Trump." And you've got other ones where you have lots of children here saying, "We're not illegals." There is a fight earlier between Trump supporters and folks who want Trump out screaming "Don't Trump at him," and certainly they're a very, very vocal crowd here tonight trying to get Trump to hear their message while he tries to give his message to the crowd that he's to see him. Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Sara Sidner, I appreciate that. Vice President Biden took a veiled shot at Donald Trump a short time ago tonight before a group of Latino leaders not naming Trump by name but condemning in his words, "A guy denigrating an entire group of people." Will Donald Trump react, we'll see that shortly.

First though, a preview of the debate and the top 11 candidates. Joining us right now, is CNN's senior commentator and former top Obama adviser, David Axelrod, also chief national correspondent John King and CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. I want to run through the 11 candidates who are going to be on that stage during the main debate. Let's take a look at Donald Trump, the frontrunner right now polling at 32 percent. Also the oldest candidate on the debate stage, he got the most airtime the last debate. David Axelrod, should he do anything differently this time?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR COMMENTATOR: You know, I think that the campaign is advancing and if he's serious about being a presidential candidate, he can't tamper with what got him there, but he has to show some moments of sobriety and substance to signal that, you know, maybe he could actually do the job, which is a problem for him. A lot of people don't think that at this point.

COOPER: Let's put up Dr. Ben Carson in the polls, second place in the polls. He was pretty mild mannered in the last debate. Joked about how he didn't get enough airtime to talk. John King, is that something he needs to do more tomorrow?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You could make the case that Ben Carson has said even less about policy prescriptions on big issues than Donald Trump has, and yet Donald Trump and Ben Carson are going up in the polls, so should he change it? I think he will be pressed to change it, although Trump will be much more the center of attention. It will be interesting to see how the Carson dynamic works out. The other candidates are more worried about Trump because his ability to spend his own money than they are about Ben Carson, who they don't think could put the organization together, but since using baseball cards, Trump and Carson never played A ball, most presidential candidates from the state legislature never played AA ball, being the governor or being in the Congress, and yet here they are in the major leagues. So there's something in the water this year that...



COOPER: There's no doubt about that. Just to the left though of Donald Trump is going to be Jeb Bush, a distant third right now. He certainly has a lot of money in the bank, he's got a lot of money behind him, but is he, Nia, the candidate who really needs to try to do something tomorrow to kind of break the Trump's criticism of him that he's low energy?

HENDERSON: And sort of put the skids on what we've seen as a slide and it showed up in his inability to raise the kind of money they wanted to this past August. I think he needs to A, figure out a way to land a punch against Donald Trump. He's been doing that online and sort of on the stump which is always easier to do.

COOPER: I think his argument is that Donald Trump is not a true conservative.

HENDERSON: He's not a true conservative, but he also I think needs to do it without seeming like Ned Flanders, without seeming sort of like the nerdy guy. And in some ways I think he's embracing being the nerd but I think one model for him if you look at what Rick Snyder, the whole idea of being one tough nerd, Rick Snyder of course...

COOPER: Governor of Michigan. HENDERSON: ... the governor of Michigan, that might be a model for him but I think he just fell to the wayside in that first debate, didn't break through at all, he's got to figure out a way to do it, but not lose sort of his brand as the moderate...


[21:05:00] AXELROD: But here's the danger for Bush. In a year in which -- and I think this is true in every presidential election, authenticity is the watch word.


AXELROD: What he can't do is distort himself...

HENDERSON: No, I think the...

AXELROD: ... and try and be what he's not.

COOPER: You say embrace your inner Ned Flanders?


AXELROD: Yeah exactly, and make Ned Flanders popular...

HENDERSON: Yeah, yeah.

COOPER: Okely dokely, we'll move on. Ted Cruz, he's got the second largest amount of Super PAC donations after Bush, over $37 million. He's only polling though at 7 percent. David, what do you think he needs to do?

AXELROD: Well, you know what, he's chosen a different path. He's hanging around and he's trying to -- he wants to be the alternative to Trump if Trump blows up, but he's got another concern I think, he wants to do well in Iowa. Carson is doing very well with social conservatives there, which is a big target for Cruz. I wouldn't be surprised if in some way he challenged Carson in that debate tomorrow night.

COOPER: Interesting. John, let's look at Mike Huckabee, he's been the most aggressive candidate, courting certainly evangelical Christian voters. He's only got 5 percent right now. He was in the news a lot with Davis in Kentucky who had refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. What do you see him doing tomorrow?

KING: Well that appearance in Kentucky was a clear play for evangelicals who are losing in the courts, who are losing these fights and Mike Huckabee says that the Supreme Court is not the final word. Well, the Supreme Court is the final word.


KING: The constitution kind of says that, but that's Mike Huckabee's play and to David's point...

AXELROD: Maybe not in the Iowa caucuses.

KING: Maybe not in Iowa caucuses. To David's point, Trump is leading among evangelicals. Ben Carson is a close second in Iowa. If you're Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee, they are the threat to your candidacy, Mike Huckabee much more so because unlike Ted Cruz, he doesn't have tens of millions of dollars in the bank. He is in a lot of trouble, he is -- we're looking at a race, Rick Perry just dropped out. You're looking at Christie, you're looking at Huckabee, you're looking at Rand Paul as people who may in a few weeks have to think about heading for the exits.

COOPER: And Nia, I mean Scott Walker came into this race with so much attention, a lot of people kind of talking about him as somebody who would be out in front. You look at his poll numbers, he's underperformed in just about all counts. He's at 5 percent in the polls.

HENDERSON: Yeah, that's right and he underperformed in that last debate. I think, his whole idea of himself is that he's aggressively normal but that doesn't really work particularly in this field and I'm not sure just works in politics more generally. He's got to get past those talking points. We can (inaudible) he's won three times in the last four years, he's taken on the union. People want more than that and people want to sense that, you know, he has some charisma. I think he's thinking that sort of if you're boring that kind of equal's charisma...

AXELROD: Yeah but, you know,

HENDERSON: ... it doesn't really.

AXELROD: He was the flavor of the month in May and June, because he was going to be the guy who could bridge the gap between center right republicans and social conservatives and tea party republicans and he made a decision to dive way right to try and win the Iowa caucuses and so now he's faced with the situation where people don't really know who...


AXELROD: ... he is. And that's a bad place to be.

COOPER: Carly Fiorina, she's the only one to graduate from the like I said happy hour debate the last time around to the for the means...


AXELROD: ...dead man walking.

COOPER: ... to this debate. She came under fire from Donald Trump famously in that Rolling Stone article just last week, where he was commenting about her face. He claimed she was -- he was commenting about her persona, that that doesn't actually make any sense whatsoever. What does she need to do, does she go after him, does she just need to kind of sell herself to the American public? AXELROD: Boy, I think she has the greatest opportunity tomorrow night. You know, just as she did in that first debate, she'll be the only woman on the stage. She presents herself with great clarity and she has shown a penchant for taking Trump on and actually winning, which is unusual in this group. So I look for her to be a winner tomorrow night in that debate.

COOPER: And John, in the last time around Rand Paul went after Donald Trump hard, perhaps harder than anybody else and right off the get-go, didn't seem to do anything for him in the polls. He continues to on the campaign trail, he's talked already today about going after Donald Trump with both force this time around even harder. What do you think he needs to do?

KING: And he had the big exchange with Governor Christie over National Security Surveillance policy, is Rand Paul taking the more libertarian get the government out of this business release backing Donald backers, Chris Christie saying, no, way, we need this. In a debate where we expect a lot of national security foreign policy issues, Rand Paul wants to be very different but all the guys who thought they were going to be different in the race, Anderson, have been trumped by Trump.

COOPER: Let's listen in to Trump.

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So I got here and they asked a couple days ago would it be possible to come over and say a few words, an endorsement from your group with so many veterans, hundreds of thousands of veterans, I really appreciate that, Joe. I did not expect it. I didn't expect it, I didn't ask for it. I will say this, I am with the veterans 100 percent.

They're our greatest people, they're being treated terribly. The -- not only the number of deaths which are obviously that's tantamount, that's what's going on is incredible, but as of two weeks ago on Wednesday, the vets had the longest wait in the history of the veteran's administration. You go in and see a doctor, you wait for days, for days and it's not going to happen, not going to happen.

[21:10:13] If I win, believe me, it's not going to happen and one of the things I thought I do and I've stressed so strongly, the veterans hospitals obviously they have problems, they're not properly run and when you have to wait long hours and long days then in some cases have the doctors say I'm sorry, I'm going on vacation, believe me, it doesn't get much worse than that.

So we're going to create a whole new system. We're going to take the system apart and if they're not doing the job, the veterans are going to go to private doctors, private hospitals, public hospitals. And we're going to reimburse those doctors and those hospitals and you're going to get the greatest service of any veterans in any country because you deserve it. And that's going to be broken down into something that's going to be very special. Right now, and you know it, we have illegal immigrants that are treated better by far than our veterans. That's not going to happen anymore, it's not going to happen. So, Joe, I just really appreciate it. So unexpected to be here as an honor they don't build ships like this anymore, folks, you know, we don't do on this way anymore. I actually said what about re commissioning, look at this thing. The largest guns in the world, the most powerful guns. I learned a lot about the Iowa. By the way, Iowa's a great place for a lot of reasons, you know. We have been treated so well in the state of Iowa. It's been incredible. Number one on the polls and we love those people they're great. So this is a great ship -- hawk eyes, this a great ship and that's a great state. I just want to say that, we're going to come out with some plans in a very short time, we're going to be building up our military, we're going to make our military so big and so strong and so great. And it will be so powerful that I don't think we're ever going to have to use it, nobody's going to mess with us that I can tell you. And we're going to have a president who's respected by Putin, who's respected by Iran, you know, let's talk about for two seconds, let's talk about the Iran deal. Now, Obama and his people call him the supreme leader of Iran. Obama talks about the supreme leader. Well, I'm not calling him a supreme leader, but he said the other day...

COOPER: We've been told there would be some specifics tonight on foreign policy, haven't heard him so far, Donald Trump aboard the USS Iowa. We're going to take a short break. We'll listen more when we come back and update you on the protest going on nearby.


[21:16:51] COOPER: Donald Trump speaking aboard the USS Iowa. Now we've been told to expect specifics on national security. So far, we have not heard any. We're going to continue to monitor this. He speaks right now kind of a standards scum speech, we roll if we do hear any specifics from Donald Trump we'll turn that around and bring those to you.

Mr Trump has until now been getting plenty of applause in any case. He also hasn't gone into detail on his religious beliefs and some of what he's said has well been some have called irreverent. He says he's polling well with the evangelical Christians. The question is will that actually translate into real support from voters? More on that now from our Randi Kaye.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Seven Iowa republicans, all evangelical Christians. When it comes to choosing a candidate does your faith and your beliefs come first?



KAYE: Only one in our group is sure he's voting Trump.

FRANK MORAN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: The relationship Mr. Trump has with God is between him and God. I am not the one here to judge.

KAYE: Others in the group don't agree. One of the biggest issues, Trump has never asked for forgiveness from God.

TRUMP: I think if I do something wrong, I think I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't.

JANE JECH, RICK SANTORUM SUPPORTER: What it causes me to do is pray for him, because he will never know the peace that he can have from forgiveness.

KAYE: Trump also raised eyebrows among the group when he said this.

TRUMP: When we go in church and when I drink my little wine, which is about the only wine I drink, and have my little cracker, I guess that's a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed, OK?

KAYE: When you hear Donald Trump say I have a little wine at church, I take a little cracker and I feel cleansed. Is that enough for you?

PASTOR KERRY JECH, MIKE HUCKABEE SUPPORTER: And I believe that it represents in a symbolic fashion the body and the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. That consequently, it is a serious thing for me, and so when somebody just makes it sound like, oh, yeah, I just do this and do that, yeah, that does bother me.

DEAN FISHER, SCOTT WALKER SUPPORTER: But I don't feel he was 100 percent sincere like he really understood what communion was about. That concerns me.

KAYE: This group has heard Trump say that the Bible is his favorite book, but when asked about his favorite scripture, he told reporters it was too personal a question.

BOB MANSON, BEN CARSON SUPPORTER: When you become a Christian, you want to tell others what happened to you. Before I was saved, I didn't care about telling anybody about Jesus Christ.

KAYE: So you're saying...

MANSON: The once I gave my heart to the Lord, I thought, man, everybody needs to know how to go to heaven and I want to tell everybody.

KAYE: On other important issues like immigration, the group as a whole is happy to see Trump has the nerve to address it. They agree the southern border needs a wall. Meanwhile, on the issue of abortion rights -- the fact that at one point he supported abortion rights and now he's pro life or says he's pro life.

K. JECH: Well for me it just -- either you're pro life or you're not. That's where I'm at.

KAYE: If Trump turns out to be the nominee, would you all vote for him?

[21:20:01] MARCIA FRICKIE, UNDECIDED VOTER: That is the one thing we have to do. We have got to rally, he may not be the perfect person and there isn't a perfect candidate out there that has everything, but we are going to rally around whoever becomes the nominee.


COOPER: Randi Kaye joins us. Randi what else struck you about what the group had to say?

KAYE: Well, Anderson we know that Donald Trump is polling so well among evangelicals not only here in Iowa but nationwide and what struck me was that our group was pretty mixed. They weren't all there to support Donald Trump. We had one who was supporting Ben Carson, another was supporting Rick Santorum, another who is reporting -- who is supporting Mike Huckabee.

Of course, they said at the end they would vote for Donald Trump if he was the nominee as you heard them say, but he's not their top choice. I also asked them why they think Donald Trump is polling so well among evangelicals and they told me it's the same reason he's polling so well among everybody else. He's bold. He's brash. He doesn't back down, they like that. The only thing they're requesting from him right now is that he start reading the Bible from cover to cover, Anderson.

COOPER: Randi, thank you very much. With that on the table, let's get some perspective now from Russell Moore. He's president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics Commission. Also Trump supporter joining us CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House Political Director, Jeffrey Lord.

President Moore, thank you for being with us. Donald Trump has been increasingly talking about his faith in recent weeks. You say he's scamming evangelicals. How so?

RUSSELL MOORE, PRESIDENT SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION ETHICS COMMISSION: Well, because you have someone who is trivializing what evangelical's belief. Look, I don't expect the president to necessarily be able to find to back at quickly in a Bible. What I do expect the president to do is to understand the deepest convictions that millions of evangelicals have in this country without trivializing those things in the way that Donald Trump has.

I can't judge Donald Trump's heart but I can listen to his words and I can see his actions. And we have a real character issue here with someone who speaks of women in denigrating terms, someone who boasts and brags about his own personal immorality, someone who has made his living in the casino industry wrecking people's lives. And then says he has nothing for which to ask God for forgiveness. That's troubling to me.

COOPER: Jeffrey, why do you think he is leading among evangelicals at this point?

JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Because I think as the report indicated, evangelicals are not one-dimensional. They have more than one thing that they're interested in at a time. I noticed Tony Perkins from the family research council said more or less exactly that. You know, I would take issue with the notion that he's scamming.

I mean, John, you can like or not like Donald Trump but there's no mistaking that he's a genuine soul. He's a nice guy. He's a good person. He's given millions and millions and millions of dollars to charity. He's helped all kinds of people that, you know, are not in the public eye and I think that certainly would get him a good reference in the good book as it were.

COOPER: But if a candidate is saying, you know, the Bible is their favorite book next to, you know...

LORD: Right.

COOPER: ..."The Art of Deal" which he also wrote and that he goes to church regularly.

LORD: And also, he only wrote one.

COOPER: And that he, you know, goes to church regularly and the church says, well actually he's not an active member of this church and he doesn't -- when he talks about holy communion or the Eucharist, different religions describe it in a different ways, you know, the language he's using doesn't really reflect the seriousness with which many people take it.

LORD: I would say this, we're here at the Ronald Reagan Library. Ronald Reagan when he was governor of California signed an abortion bill into law which he regretted later. Ronald Reagan was not an evangelical Christian. He was like Donald Trump, I believe a Presbyterian and yet as he went along in his later presidential life and pre-presidential life when he was running for president, he met up with Jerry Fallwell, became very interested and they became quite good friends and he really did very well with the evangelicals. I mean, I think that kind of thing would happen but I certainly don't think he's scamming anybody.

COOPER: And President Moore, I mean, despite polling that has Trump leading among evangelicals there's no -- as far as I know and correct me if I'm wrong, no evangelical leader or pastor that you've spoken to says they are supporting them -- him. So how do you explain the disconnect if pastors and leaders aren't supporting him and yet the polls show at least in, you know, in the numbers this early on, evangelicals by large numbers seem to be picking him.

MOORE: Well look, evangelical Christians ought to be the last people to fall for hucksters and demagogues. We ought to be people who have our consciences so shaped by the scripture that we're able to recognize that sort of thing but unfortunately, I mean, Donald Trump is using the kind of rhetoric he's using and winning over virtually every demographic of the American population right now and that's why I think we need to deal with the issue of character, we need to deal with the issue of using language to divide the American people the way that he is and really ugly and nasty ways often.

[21:24:58] And with the question of Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan is not someone who just suddenly turned around and said he was pro life with no explanation. Ronald Reagan never spoke of all the many good things that Planned Parenthood does. Ronald Reagan wrote an entire book on the sanctity of human life. He spoke regularly to why he cared about the unborn and how he would protect the unborn. And Donald Trump says that his sister would be a good candidate for the Supreme Court.

This is someone who is a radical pro-abortion activist. And so this is no Ronald Reagan. And even more than that, Ronald Reagan was able to communicate a character and a vision of America that included everyone. It was hopeful and moved us forward into the future. That's not what we're hearing from Donald Trump.

COOPER: Russell Moore, I appreciate you being on the program. Jeffrey Lord as well. And Donald Trump has just finished talking not offering the specifics on national security that we'd been led to expect perhaps no surprise. We'll talk about that ahead and bring you a live update on the protesters nearby. We'' be right back.


[21:30:00] COOPER: Donald Trump has just left the battleship. He was expected to talk national security, and for the first time talk some specifics. He did not. He did, however, draw plenty of protests from members of the Latino community, about 200 or so were total outside. Let's quickly go to Sara Sidner who's among the crowd. Sara?

SIDNER: Anderson, yes, the protesters have moved a bit near the USS Iowa getting closer and closer as close as they can because these two black cars they believe that's where Trump is going be getting in and leaving at some point. We know that some folks paid about $1,000 or donate about $1,000 to the group that was putting on this event, Veterans for a Strong America.

And you'll see that the protesters have been able to move quite close and as Trump was speaking they were booing, they were yelling out different messages to him hoping that he could hear them because they say California is a state that has more immigrants than any other state in this country and that this is a wonderful place to be and that no one should be told to leave the country and that no humans are illegal.

You can see some of their signs. They're pretty creative. And you've got everyone from adults to children out here, Anderson, about 250 people have come out saying that they really don't want to have Trump as their president. They don't like the message. And you have senators who came out talking about a bill that California has gone ahead and put forward a resolution to divest from all Trump properties and any money that the public trust is putting into Trump's properties. And there's a lot of talk about that here in California as well to vote for politicians and regular citizens out here protesting Trump. Anderson?

COOPER: All right. Sara Sidner, appreciate it. Here at the Reagan Library, we're back with John King and joining us is Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. So not some -- we really did not get specifics that we kind of had

been told perhaps we would, which is why we didn't really play much of the speech. It was actually a shorter speech than a lot of the speeches that he has given.

At this point though, for Donald Trump, you know, one of the things he said which we've heard plenty of times before is him talking about veterans and he has talked about it quite loudly on the campaign trail. Other candidates have raised issues about the V.A. as well but none perhaps as loudly and as consistently as Donald Trump. But again, not a lot of specifics from him on what he would actually do.

KING: No, he said again that he'll make the military big and strong and rebuilt. He said again and he insisted it says oh, they're all skeptical. I will make Mexico pay for the wall when I build it. He says China will give into him and Putin will give into him. And he says he will help veterans but again, when he says I will help you, this is part of his appeal. He says the others will never be able to do these things because they don't get deals like I do. It's a special instinct. I have it, they don't. It's worth keeping him right now.

Again, you know, my eighth presidential campaign, you're ripping up scripture, just rip up the old playbook and throw it out. It does not apply to Donald Trump. The voters or at least the voters who support him are so disgusted and so distrustful of the senators and the governors that when he says these things, they want something different and whether it's Donald Trump or Ben Carson, that's where they're going right now.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, and we got a hint of what he's going to do tomorrow night I think actually because he was talking about his opponents as, now we've heard it a million times, very nice people. They are all very nice people, but what he is saying is they're incompetent. They're all completely...


COOPER: They're low energy, they can't make deals.

BORGER: Low energy, right. They don't know how to do anything.

KING: Hostage to the system.

BORGER: Right, and exactly. And as he says, he used to be a part of that system. Now he understands it and he's outside of it. So I think that is what we're going to hear tomorrow night and he said also, people are disgusted with our politicians. And he represents that. You know, I'm -- I represent you because I'm disgusted with them as well.

COOPER: I mean, you John you covered a lot of campaigns booth. You have covered a lot of campaigns. I mean, it is a long slug between now and even the first, you know, caucus and, you know, the battles in Iowa, in New Hampshire. When does the electorate start to demand greater details? KING: Well, if you go back to this point four years ago, most

republicans thought Rick Perry would be their nominee, but Romney was lurking in second place and the race had structure. This race we have to give Trump credit and give him the structure. Early on we all thought this was a wave that was going to crash.

COOPER: Right, absolutely.

KING: He would implode.

COOPER: No one anticipated him getting this far.

KING: He's above 30 percent in the national polls. He's leading in Iowa. He's leading in New Hampshire. Nobody votes for four months. So there is a possibility that when we get, you know, six weeks out or a month out, maybe his numbers will go down, maybe. And that's what most of the other candidates are still depending on. They still believe that this is a reality T.V. show that it's not a real campaign. But in the meantime, several of them won't be there. Rick Perry is already gone. A few more will be gone by the time Iowa votes. So the question is how do you -- if there's this wave out there, do you want to get in front of it or behind it? Do you take him on tomorrow night? But some candidates say they're poised to do? Or do you have to make the case? The challenge for the guys with titles...

COOPER: And by the way Donald Trump there leaving he battleship protesters.

KING: The challenge for the guys with titles is to break through these people who don't trust them and say we need to win to govern. We don't -- not just winning to get the building. Once you win, you have to govern. I know you're frustrated but please listen to me. That's hard to do in this environment and Trump is adding fuel to the fire by saying discuss, discuss, discuss.

[21:35:07] BORGER: You know, a couple things to consider, first of all when you look at all of this polling, over 60 percent of the people who are being polled are saying they haven't decided yet. So this is -- and the firm Trump supporters are firm Trump supporters, make no mistake about that. But most of the voters right now are undecided. Talking to the other campaign, John is 100 percent right, I talked to somebody in the Bush campaign, the Walker campaign, and they were saying, you know, New Hampshire voters, they're late deciders, they're notoriously late deciders.

So what we see are two races going on right now. The outsider race, Carson-Trump and we'll see that on the stage tomorrow night, versus everybody else who wants to be the alternative to those outsiders when they finally go away as they hope as the establishment candidates hope. And so they're all running in different lanes right now. They're not, you know, they're running to be the alternative to Trump or Carson.

KING: But when you get a chance to make your move, your car has to tires on it. BORGER: Exactly.

KING: I mean, the question is what shape are these guys going to be in? And Jeb Bush is the Republican Party's $100 million man. His Super PAC just launched the $24 million ad campaign trying to keep him up life support in his own to somebody there's on the poll.

COOPER: I mean, the fact that they are going to be spending $24 million this early...

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: some of these states, I mean that -- they must be scared.

BORGER: Why not -- you know, if you were this -- this is a crucial moment for Jeb Bush's campaign. Tomorrow night is really crucial for him. He has to show passion, energy, seriousness, contrast, right, with Donald Trump. And what they are doing is they're launching this ad campaign, so while he does that on the stage, they can buttress it on the airwaves. Look at the conservative record of Jeb Bush in the state of Florida. Just because you hear Bush, don't think of Bush 41 and he's a moderate. Let us tell you his story and let us also at the same time tell you, which they're also doing, that Donald Trump is an imposter, that he's not a conservative.

COOPER: Right, Rand Paul is going to be -- I think running a commercial during the debate...

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: ...tomorrow, again, trying to label Donald Trump is not a real conservative, which is the message Jeb Bush has been trying to push as well.

KING: And the conservative group, the Club for Growth just launched an ad in Iowa were making the same message, again we're at this moment. We're about to find out. This is the most unconventional campaign that any of us can remember, Trump and Carson. The only weapons people are deploying against him right now are conventional weapons of politics, paid advertising or attacking him in debates or attacking him at their political rallies. Will it work? That's the question. Will it work?

And one more quick point, Donald Trump is above 30 percent. If he can stay close to that number as we move on, he's in a golden position. Twenty five percent of republican voters roughly now say they will not vote for Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush has to move that number.

BORGER: It's hard.

KING: He has to move that number.

COOPER: And yet Donald Trump, I mean, they can run commercials and spend a lot of money. Donald Trump can tweet and get as much coverage perhaps as some of these commercials. BORGER: Right, and that's the, you know, that's the unconventional

part of Donald Trump. He can also, by the way, phone in. You know, he can phone in and we put him on the air and Donald Trump talks to us and, you know, the other candidates quite frankly are complaining about it to us, right?

COOPER: Gloria Borger, John King, thank you very much.

Donald Trump leaving his campaign events. As important as words will be tomorrow night here at the Reagan Library on that debate stage, body language could trump everything. Next an expert shows where some of the candidates could improve based on the last debate.


[21:42:37] COOPER: Hey, good evening. We are live tonight from the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. Tomorrow is the Republican Presidential Debate hosted by CNN, now less than 21 hours away. Research suggested body language could be crucial.

Nick Morgan is the founder of Public Words Incorporated. He gave Gary Tuchman his take on where some of the candidates stand and where they have room for improvement.



NICK MORGAN, CEO, PUBLIC WORDS INC.: Like the man who was the frontrunner, in the beginning of all this, Jeb Bush who now no longer is, let's take a look at one of his moments in his first debate.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've got a record in Florida. I'm proud of my dad and I'm certainly proud of my brother. In Florida, they call me Jeb because I earned it.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So you're saying he gave up authority with his body language. How did he give up authority?

MORGAN: He gave up authority by tipping his head slightly to one side and then the other. When we hold our head up straight, we say we're in charge, we're confident.

TUCHMAN: What does he have to do differently this time around compared to the first debate?

MORGAN: Governor Bush needs to show up with more confidence and more authority. He needs to be a stronger personality and to do that he needs literally to take up more space. Aside from not tipping his head to one side or the other, he also needs to crowd his podium. He needs to lean into it.

TUCHMAN: OK. Here's a moment between Governor Bush and Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say that the Mexican government, the Mexican government is sending criminals, rapists, drug dealers across the border. Governor Bush has called those remarks, "extraordinarily ugly." I'd like you, you're right next to him, tell us, talk to him directly and say how you respond to that.

TUCHMAN: You see a lot here. You see the way he's looking at Trump and you see what Trump is doing with his arms. What does it all tell us?

MORGAN: Well, it's a wonderful little play here. What you see is Trump completely ignoring Bush. But Bush, again, is deferring. He turns to Trump and he says, all right, answer the question. But he takes a step back as he does so which shows he's giving the stage to Trump.

TUCHMAN: This is a short clip, but a very interesting moment with Ben Carson who is now number two in most of the polls.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS: As president, would you bring back waterboarding?

BEN CARSON, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, thank you, Megyn. I wasn't sure I was going to get to talk again.

KELLY: We have a lot for you. Don't worry.

MORGAN: What's fascinating to me is that he was complaining that he wasn't getting a lot of airtime and yet when he does get airtime, when the camera's on him, he's not connecting with the audience.

[21:45:02] Look at that. His eyes are shut. He's looking down. It's as if he's having a conversation with himself. I think he needs to connect with the television audience much more strongly. He needs to look them in the eye. He needs to make his gestures to show up more confident and more authoritative.

TUCHMAN: To use sports terms Carly Fiorina is now moving up to the Division 1 debate Wednesday to the Division 2 debate. The first earlier debate, the first time. Let's listen to her.

CARLY FIORINA, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Only someone who will challenge the status quo of Washington, D.C. can lead the resurgence of this great nation. I will do that.

MORGAN: She's, I think, a force to be reckoned with because she's saying some very tough things and she's coming across as quite strong in her language. And yet she's softening it with a lot of affirmative nods and tippings of the head and smiling. And that warms her up and so you accept what she is saying because the body language says, you can trust me, I'm your friend, I'm a nice person.

TUCHMAN: You're telling me of all the candidates if you had to pick one to watch the closest in this debate, this would be the person to watch, Carly Fiorina, tell me why.

MORGAN: Because she has by far the most difficult job. She's the only woman in a sea of men so that puts a spotlight on her, but it also increases the scrutiny and she also has to stand up to Donald Trump, whom as we've seen has sucked all the air out of the room in the first debate and he's likely to do so in the second.

COOPER: Well, different candidates, of course, have different ways of prepping for debates. What works for one may not be effective for another candidate. Donald Trump likes to say he doesn't prepare at all for the debates. Let's talk about this with Brett O'Donnell, President of O'Donnell & Associates who is working with Lindsey Graham's campaign and has been helping Senator Graham prepare for tomorrow night's debate. You've also worked with John McCain going against then-senator Barack Obama. You've also worked with George Bush going against John Kerry. How do you prepare a candidate to go against Donald Trump?

BRETT O'DONNELL, LINDSEY GRAHAM'S DEBATE COACH: Well, I think you don't want to think about just Donald Trump. And I think that's a mistake. If you teach your candidate to just focus on him, I think you're making a big mistake. I think the biggest thing you need to do is teach your candidate to get message and drive message out.

COOPER: Their message to the public.

O'DONNELL: Their message to the public, you know. If you're just debating Donald Trump, you're taking his bait really. And so what you've got to do is be prepared to drive your message and then effectively counterpunch Donald Trump should he attack you.

COOPER: But not - because Rand Paul was very aggressive in the last debate going after Donald Trump just kind of out of the blue.

O'DONNELL: I think that's a mistake because you're playing right into Donald Trump's hands. I mean, he's made a living -- he even says I'm an effective counterpuncher and he has been...

COOPER: Right.

O'DONNELL: ...pretty effective. And so if you go after Donald Trump first, I think you're playing into his hands. The best way is to drive your message and really the two people who are loving life in this primary right now are Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, because when the candidates are fighting amongst each other, they're not going against them.

COOPER: They're not going against.

O'DONNELL: That's correct.

COOPER: In terms of body language, is that something, A, you put a lot of stock into and is it something you actually counsel clients on?

O'DONNELL: Absolutely.

COOPER: Really?

O'DONNELL: I mean, there's so much audiences say that they get as much as 65 percent of meaning from how someone says something, not just what they say. And so if you think back in 2004, George W. Bush who I coached in the very first debate, had great substance, but he had a lot of problems with body language, lying on the podium, sighing, those sort of things. You think back to the 2000 debate, Al Gore, same thing where he's sighing.

COOPER: Sighing, all right. Looking at his watch I think at one point.

O'DONNELL: And that was George H.W. Bush looking at his watch during the presidential debate. So body language, you may not intend to communicate something, but you might unintentionally and so we have to pay attention to how you say what you say, not just what you say.

COOPER: Dr. Ben Carson really seems to defy a lot of the conventional wisdom about how you present yourself. I mean, he is very soft spoken and yet it comes off perhaps as authentic. People seem to like it.

O'DONNELL: Yeah. I mean, I think he is communicating an air of humility, you know, the way he communicates. And so people know he's smart. He's a neurosurgeon, and so I think the way he communicates, the style that he uses, says I'm a humble man, but I want to be your representative. And I think a lot of people are taken to that. I'm very interested to see how Donald Trump confronts now that person tomorrow night.

COOPER: I've been watching your body language, I'm taking notes. Some free advice here. Brett O'Donnell, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

And just ahead tonight, with a wink and a nod to tomorrow night's debate, we're taking a look at some of the most memorable moments from debates past. We'll be right back.


[21:53:33] COOPER: Less than 24 hours now from the CNN Republican Presidential Debates here at the Ronald Reagan Library. If we have learned anything from the past, it will be some lighthearted moments, maybe slip-up or two, perhaps one of the candidates will say something that will make it into the history books. Let's take a quick look at some of the highlights and low lights from past debates.


GERALD FORD, 38TH U.S. PRESIDENT: There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe. I'm sorry I...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raise your hand now if you won't make that pledge tonight.

Mr. Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First United States will keep moving on (ph).

JOHN F. KENNEDY, 35TH U.S. PRESIDENT: Brought in one of the programs we advocate. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the...

RONALD REAGAN, 40TH U.S. PRESIDENT: I am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience.

LLOYD BENTSEN, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was with a friend of mine.

Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

RICK PERRY, FORMER GOVERNOR, TEXAS: The third agency of government, I would do away with the education, the commerce and - let's say, I can't. The third one I can't. Sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what our next question is about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, democratic candidates. As president, what will you do to ensure that my son will live a full and happy life?

[21:55:05] G. BUSH: It's not like what's your philosophy and what's your position on issues, but can you get things done. And I believe I can.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, UNITED STATES: Senator Clinton tried to spend $1 million on the Woodstock Concert Museum. Now, my friends, I wasn't there. I was tied up at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's true now.

MITT ROMNEY, FORMER GOVERNOR, MASSACHUSETTS: Rick, I tell you what, $10,000? $10,000 bet?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're telling that...


REAGAN: I am paying for this microphone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what a governor...

H. CLINTON: I don't think I'm that bad.

OBAMA: You're likable enough, Hillary, no doubt about it.


COOPER: Something about the most memorable moments. We'll be right back.


COOPER: I'll be filling in for Jake Tapper tomorrow on "THE LEAD" 4:00 p.m. Eastern.