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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Trump Doesn't Seem Worried about Debate; Debate Matchups, Rules, How Adding Woman to Main Debate Could Change Things; Rep. Marsha Blackburn Talks Debate Expectations; Donald Trump to Talk National Security. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 15, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: She's accused of hitting a passenger and a flight attendant.

Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: 24 hours to go. Everyone that everyone's preparing, that is, maybe except for Mr. Donald Trump. Hear how he's preparing, though, this morning and also who he's visiting.

Plus, the match-ups to watch, the rules, and how adding the only woman in the GOP field to the main stage could change everything.

This is CNN's special live coverage.

Hello, I'm Kate Bolduan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Berman, live this morning at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in beautiful -- but today rainy -- Simi Valley, California.

We're just one day, one day from CNN's GOP debate. It is the day before, and for some candidates, there may be no day after. Their very campaigns could be at stake unless they find a way to derail the Trump Express. Is the front-runner worried?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, the debate. I hear they're all gone after me. Whatever. Whatever.

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: No, I hear it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Whatever. But maybe he should worry because in a new CBS/"New York Times" poll out just this morning shows Dr. Ben Carson close. Carson just a few points behind while the rest of the field, way, way back. The establishment guys have fallen just so deep behind Donald Trump and Ben Carson. The two outsiders have the inside track if the election were held today, which, of course, it's not, but the debate is being held tomorrow. The establishment now fighting back.

Maeve Reston joins me here on set.

Don't Trump with a campaign event tonight.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, here in California, of all places, on an aircraft carrier, a huge rally planned where he's going to talk about veterans' issues and how he wants to strengthen the military. This is obviously a very unusual in terms of debate -- the day before the debate, because usually you would be in intensive debate prep, and as Donald Trump told us, he doesn't need to do that while his other friends in the Republican Party do. So, everyone else is pretty much is down today, getting their talking points sharpened, ready to go, and Donald Trump will come in with, I'm sure, another bombastic speech to entertain us all.

BERMAN: That was something. That was a full house in Dallas last night. Thousands and thousands of people. They seemed to be eating up whatever he said.

RESTON: Yeah, absolutely. You see him growing in strength in the polls in the last few weeks. Everyone expected some kind of a flame out like we saw in 2012. He seems to be working his way up. Ben Carson, as you mentioned, is inching his way up. Ben Carson was here in California last week in Anaheim. Also bringing out big crowds. And a lot of people in that crowd that I talked to said they wanted anyone but Trump. Really liked that contrast with Ben Carson. The sort of quieter, softer, more thoughtful candidate that they could see in the Oval Office.

BERMAN: Very interesting. They'll be standing side by side at the CNN debate tomorrow night.

Maeve Reston, Thank you so much.

RESTON: You're welcome.

BERMAN: Let's talk about more of where we are right now as we see Trump and Carson pulling ahead, the outsiders versus the establishment.

Joining me, CNN analysts, Kevin Madden and Jeffrey Lord. Jeffrey Lord supportive if not a supporter of Donald Trump.

Guys, let me put up this new CBS/"New York Times" poll. We see Donald Trump and Ben Carson. I don't want to talk about the margin between the two, because running one and two in all the polls. What's most remarkable is the outsiders and separation with everyone else. People are not leaving the establishment guys for other establishment guys. They're leaving the establishment guys for Ben Carson or Donald Trump -- Jeffrey?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What we see is a battle between outsiders, between Trump and Carson. With everybody else, possibly not Carly Fiorina, pushed off to the side. Then what do you do at that point? In the past when you have battles like that -- we're here at the Reagan Library. The battle between Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush would up as the ticket. You wonder if what we're seeing here is the formative stage, a Trump/Carson or whatever ticket here.

BERMAN: Kevin, I was struck you weren't see the Jeb people go to John Kasich or go to Marco Rubio, which it seems like everyone's flowing to Carson or Trump.

[11:05:03] KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Inside many of these polls what we're seeing is that there's a very low sense of trust that voters have for what they call typical politicians. As a result of that, you're seeing a premium shift where voters are putting a premium on somebody with an outsider status, someone that doesn't have a resume as a career politician or what they seem to want right now is somebody who's going to be confrontational with the status quo, someone who's going to be seen as a fighter. And a dramatic departure from the last eight years of what we've seen with the Obama presidency. And with Donald Trump, Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson, that's what they're finding.

BERMAN: One of the big questions has been, what does everyone do about this, because they're a rank-and-file establishment Republicans who have been, you know, just con founded by what to do with Donald Trump. Now we're seeing the Club for Growth. Not the RNC, but a group with money, economic conservatives. They announced they would do $1 million ad buy. That's a lot in Iowa, going after Donald Trump. I want to play a little bit of the ad they're going to be putting up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Which presidential candidate supports higher taxes, national health care and the Wall Street bailout? It's Donald Trump.

TRUMP: In many cases, I probably identify more as a Democrat.

ANNOUNCER: Trump wants us to think he's Mr. Tell It Like It Is, but he has a record and it's very liberal. It's really just playing us for chumps. Trump, just another politician.

TRUMP: In many cases, I probably identify more as a Democrat.

ANNOUNCER: Club for Growth Action is responsible for the content of this advertising.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: So, this attack -- there's another one also, the Trump is a liberal attack. I suppose there's a question of, is that going to work? There's also a question, a million bucks against Donald Trump, that's a lot of money.

LORD: In case you haven't heard, John, he'll tell you, he's very rich.

BERMAN: He hasn't spent a cent on television ads yet.

LORD: But he'll do what he needs. That's a terrible ad from their point of view. What he'll say is, he can come up with tape-recordings of Ronald Reagan as a liberal. They're out there on YouTube. How hard is this? Reagan was a registered Democrat until four years before he ran for governor of California. I just think this stuff isn't going to stick with Donald Trump. We're way beyond that at this point.

MADDEN: I tend to agree with Jeffrey. I don't think the ideological frame is as important to Trump supporters, peeling off his supporters by saying liberals versus conservatives. The other part of that ad, which could be effective if it was the central message, which says Donald Trump is about Donald Trump. Trump is a fraud and a con, if I really care about the direction of this country. That type of message would break through and voters would feel like they don't want one -- they don't want a trick like that pulled over on them. They would be more likely to go shopping for some other candidates.

BERMAN: It is interesting. $1 million in Iowa on TV, it frees up the candidates to do different kinds of messages, right? Can't they talk about themselves? Can't they talk about Trump in different ways? A million bucks on the airways against Trump.

MADDEN: Remember this, $1 million from a 527 or super PAC doesn't have the same effect. But right now, the playing field is open. The Club for Growth is one of those groups on the air making that case to voters. We'll see if this starts to move the dial for those registering support for Donald Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: If they are quickly pushed into -- if Trump pushes them into the corner where they, too, are seeing the establishment, even though we know their history, they have a problem and then they become a bad guy.

BERMAN: Right, and they hit Donald Trump up for $1 million donation.

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: Right, right.

BERMAN: Interesting.

Jeffrey Lord, Kevin Madden, great to have you here with us. Thank you so much.

Do not miss this CNN debate. It is tomorrow night right here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. The main event with the 11 candidates begins at 8:00 eastern. Before that, 6:00 p.m., the four other candidates face off. Do not miss a single second of it.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: And even before that, we have so much more AT THIS HOUR to discuss her. John's in California. I'm here in New York for you today.

The new "x" factor in this debate, that's one topic of discussion, the only woman in the Republican race joining the main stage. So, how does that change the dynamic this time around? I'm going to talk to a lawmaker about her experience coming up against men in a crowded political field.

Plus, Donald Trump speaking about national security tonight onboard a battleship, of course. This after a contentious interview on the same topic. Is this his biggest weakness heading into the debate?

This is CNN special live coverage. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:13:15] BOLDUAN: One new addition to the debate stage this time around, Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard. She was the standout from the first round under-card debate and that has paid off big in the polls, earning her spot on the main stage tomorrow night. One of the moments to watch is when she and Donald Trump face off really for the first time since Trump's comments about Fiorina's face.

In an interview with "Rolling Stone" magazine, Trump said this, "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?" He goes on to say, "I mean, she's a woman and I'm not supposed to say bad things, but really, folks, are you serious?" That's why everyone will be looking to see what it's like when Trump and Fiorina face off.

Joining me to discuss debate expectations, Republican Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, of Tennessee.

Thank you for joining me.

REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN, (R), TENNESSEE: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: I want to get your take on what you're looking for in tomorrow night's big debate, but first off, what do you make of Donald Trump's remarks to "Rolling Stone" there about Carly Fiorina?

BLACKBURN: Kate, I got to tell you, women like Carly and like me who have been in the corporate world, in the small business world f we had let comments get under our skin or derail us or take our attention off of what was important, then we probably would have been in a heap somewhere and never accomplished anything. You just roll on. You just shake it off. You just move on. And I think that's what people to want see women do, and to get out there and lead this fight. This is now a movement. People are sick and tired of this. They are tired of the establishment Washington. They want to see something done. Like one of my constituents said, I'm tired of being broke. You need to do some things to get the economy moving. I think a lot of people are like that. Jobs and economy, number one issue with women and they are looking for answers.

[11:15:17] BOLDUAN: Absolutely. You bring up a very interesting way because I think folks are looking into this debate from two very different prisms. One, how is Carly Fiorina going to react, because you know this moment's going to be asked about? Also, how is Donald Trump going to handle it when Carly comes after him? How do you think Carly Fiorina should handle it when this moment comes up tomorrow night?

BLACKBURN: When guys would say something about my hair, my makeup, my clothes, you're 5'3", blond hair, blue eyes, from way down south, you couldn't possibly have an answer to a solution. I would just move on and take it as a challenge to prove them wrong. And that is many times what you have to do. When you look at your life's work, the issues of faith, family, freedom, hope and opportunity are issues that deserve my full attention. I appreciate that we've got great candidates. They have created a movement. And when you have candidates like Trump and Carson and Fiorina and the others that will be on that stage that millions of Americans who are independents and Democrats and Republicans are watching these debates and are paying attention, you know, Kate, we're going to see an election cycle like we have not seen in a long time. Quite frankly, I love the fact that tomorrow night's debate is at the Reagan Library because Ronald Reagan was a Democrat, was a union member and moved to being a Republican. And what a vision he created for our nation. What a great speech. He would go out for years and give and talk about opportunity and the American dream. Remember now, still the first time I saw him in the early '70s and how compelling his speech was. Remember the date and the people that I was with.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman, let me ask you this. When I was reading this morning in the "times," it reminded me that back in '08, just as recently as 2008, Joe Biden in preparing for his vice presidential debate against Sarah Palin, he was given clear advice from his advisers in terms of debating a woman. Don't correct her, don't belittle her, don't mock her, don't diminish her. Those are the rules on how you have to prepare differently, if you will, on debating a woman. Do you think those rules apply today?

BLACKBURN: I think much of that does apply. I think just be respectful.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Of anybody, regardless of their sex.

BLACKBURN: That's right. Be respectful of everybody and the process.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: That in mind, respectful to the process, that isn't necessarily what we see in Mr. Donald Trump, though.

BLACKBURN: I think you're going to see on the stage tomorrow night a group of people that are respectful of the process, that care passionately about this country. And I think all of the candidates need to focus more on the issues and less on the personalities. You know, when we focus on good policy and focus on the issues, we win. That's the Republican strong suit. And the opportunity to have individuals who are watching -- maybe it's the first political debate they've ever watched -- to hear what actions people would take. People want action now. They don't want words. They don't want discussion. They want people to say, tell me specifically what you're going to do. That's what they're looking for from the candidates. My advice to the candidates would be to go in there, lay out specifics, drill down just a little bit. And don't think about platitudes, don't talk in platitudes, talk about how you'll save this country because we are definitely on the wrong track and there is bipartisan agreement in that.

BOLDUAN: We'll see if the specifics come out. Not a lot of time for that in a one-minute answer and 30-second rebuttal but there's always time if you want to get there.

Congresswoman, good to see you.

BLACKBURN: Good to see you, Kate. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thanks so much.

Just one of the moments we're watching for tomorrow night, my friend, John.

[11:19:37]BERMAN: All right, Kate, Donald Trump getting ready to board a battleship to talk about national security. But is he ready to handle the nuclear codes? Will that even come up at the debate tonight -- or tomorrow night, I should say?

Plus the video war. Candidates putting their best faces forward, so will these videos work? Which are the best ones?

This is CNN special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: John Berman, here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library where just one day from now, the CNN debate. The Republican contenders face off in what could be a critical moment for all of them.

Last night the front-runner, Donald Trump, played to a packed house in Dallas, a basketball arena. Thousands and thousands of fans there. Tonight, he is nearby here in Los Angeles. He'll be on a battleship talking to a veteran's group about veteran issues and foreign policy. What about foreign policy, defense, the battle against terror, how will that play in this campaign? How will it play in the debate?

Let's bring in CNN national security commentator, Mike Rogers, former member of Congress who dealt with these issues.

I want to put up a poll. We asked voters, what issues do they think are the very important. Foreign policy and terror, it's not the most important issue. Economy, health care, Social Security, they all rank higher than terrorism, which is the first on that list. So how important in this campaign, foreign policy in the battle against terror? MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR & FORMER CONGRESSMAN:

It's going to be huge. If you look at that number, 80 percent on any issue is a significant percentage, number one. Number two, when you look at polling in early primary states, it is often times number one. Actually, one of the first polls came out in Iowa was foreign policy/national security was the number-one issue. Those are really important numbers for early primary states. Important numbers for candidates.

[11:25:05] BERMAN: What do they want to see, policy or proficiency?

ROGERS: You don't have to be a national security expert to turn on your TV and know something is wrong. We're already suffering that second and third order problem from the Iranian deal. You see what the Russians are doing in Syria. So, people understand that a lack of U.S. Leadership has consequences. And I think what they're looking for is they don't need a 48-page detailed plan. They need somebody to understand that leadership counts. That resolve counts. And being smart about how you apply U.S. Power counts. And if you can get those categories, you'll find that most of the people will be in support of their national security platform.

BERMAN: Some of the words you brought up there, "understand, being smart," and those are things that are now in the forefront, because of Hugh Hewitt's radio interview with Donald Trump where Hugh asked Trump very some specific questions about terror leaders and policy flashpoints.

Let's listen to a clip of that right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP (voice-over): When you start throwing around names of people and where they live, give me their address. I think it's ridiculous and I think --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGH HEWITT, TALK RADIO SHOW HOST (voice-over): I wouldn't do that. That's crazy, I agree. But it's an interview, not a debate.

TRUMP: By the way, the names you just mentioned, they probably won't even be there in six months or a year.

HEWITT: I don't know. Nasrallah has got such staying power.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: We'll see what happens. You know what, in that case, first day in office or before then, the day after the election, I'll know more about it than you will ever know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, Hugh Hewitt will be asking questions at this debate. How much knowledge and proficiency does a candidate need to portray on the debate stage? More than that?

ROGERS: Well, I don't think names are important. I really don't. It would be hard for somebody that doesn't do it every day to get Jalani (ph) is the head of el Nusra. You have to be really into this every day to understand that. What you do need to have an understanding of are the different terrorist organizations and how they're connected in the Middle East. It is a complicated web, indeed. And you need to have a basic understanding and what Russia is up to around the world.

BERMAN: So --

ROGERS: China as well.

BERMAN: -- the big question is, is Trump vulnerable on foreign policy? Bobby Jindal, who is running, has a video up now going after Trump on that issue. Let's play a quick clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: As governor, he helped create 1.3 million new jobs. He vetoed billions in government spending. He cut taxes $19 billion, balanced eight budgets and shrank state government. He took on unions and won with new accountability and over 200 new charter schools. The state was Florida. The governor was Jeb Bush. Proven conservative. Real results. Jeb.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. Despite my promises to you, that was not a Bobby Jindal ad.

ROGERS: That was a nice ad for Jeb Bush.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Fact-check, false, right there. An anchor not giving you the straight story. That was a Jeb Bush ad.

Bobby Jindal has an ad up attacking Trump. Is he vulnerable?

ROGERS: I think he is vulnerable if he doesn't sharpen your game. If he doesn't take it seriously, the voters won't take you seriously. Whoever the next commander-in-chief is, they will be tested by foreign powers, Russia, China, Iran. We're seeing it now. They're setting the table. The next president better be ready, whoever that next president is. I was a little disappointed how cavalier he was about the issue. I'll hire somebody to handle it. That's not good enough if you're going to be commander-in-chief of the United States. He has to sharpen his game. He's still has time to do that --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: No sign yet it's hurting him?

ROGERS: I don't think so. I think most people aren't tuned into the details. Most people think, do you need to know, you know, who the specific name of al Nusra's head is today. I doubt it. I don't think that's going to impact it. If you stumble on the bigger issues, I think he'll have problems.

BERMAN: Mike Rogers, great to have you here. Thank you so much.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: Thanks, John.

Coming up for us, Bush bringing out his secret weapon, Rubio showing off his sense of humor, the new campaign videos that are out and what the candidates hope they show. But will they work?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)