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Post Coverage of the Second Republican Presidential Candidate; Analyzing the Candidates' Performances. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired September 17, 2015 - 23:00   ET



[23:00:12] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: It is 11:00 p.m. here on the East Coast, the night after the most-watched event in CNN's history, the GOP debate.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Donald Trump making the rounds tonight just 24 hours after the debate. He and his Republican rivals did not hold back last night slamming each other on foreign policy, their business experience, even childhood vaccinations. Tonight we will have fact check their claims. Plus Carly Fiorina's mic drop moment in her face-off with Trump.

And the elephant in the room. The hot-button issue that never even came up in the debate and should have. We'll discuss all of that this evening. But we are going to begin with the man who asked some tough questions. That's Hugh Hewitt, host of radio Hugh Hewitt show" and the author of the "Queen, the epic ambition of Hillary Clinton and the coming of the second Clinton era."

Hello again, Mr. Hewitt.

HUGH HEWITT, RADIO SHOW HOST, HUGH HEWITT SHOW: Hey, Don. And I'm glad you thought the questions were hard. They were, and they were tough, and they were supposed to be.

LEMON: Yes. So I want to get a tough answer from you right now because Donald Trump was just on FOX News and this is what he said about last night's debate. Here it is.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The thing that made me most upset and everybody, else was the three hours. Because to be standing for three hours answering questions in the form of a debate. I think the viewers, probably, you know frankly, I think they would have done as well as they've done. You know, I think they set a record in the history of CNN. As well that they done, they would have done better if it was an hour shorter. It was too much. It was too long. And I would imagine at a certain point people get bored with that.


LEMON: Why do you think the length was an issue for him, Hugh? HEWITT: I don't know. And I look forward to talking to him about

that. He's going to come back on either tomorrow or Monday according to his team. I'm really looking forward to that because I think Donald Trump has the best TV chops of anyone. The most training in reality television in a four-hour show. I think we would kept and built the audience, we kept and built the audience for three hours.

It was long. It was hot, and it was uncomfortable for some people. But there was an audience. And I think when you're trying to persuade a country that it's way off track, that the Iran deal is a catastrophe, Hillary Clinton had nothing to say for her four years in office rather than calamity and catastrophe that she's hiding the server, when you have lots of arguments to make, you need more time because President Obama controls the bully pulpit.

So I think Republicans need to grab every moment that they can when they set up sign posts like CNN did last night. Heavily promote it and then use every minute. So when Mr. Trump comes back on the Hugh Hewitt show I'll say, you know, Donald Trump, you've got the best chops on TV. Why wouldn't you want to go longer because we kept the audience?

LEMON: Yes. I'm wondering if you're going to ask him about what happened in New Hampshire tonight when he was taking questions and one the question asked him about the president being a Muslim.

HEWITT: Are you going to play the tape, Don? I haven't seen it.

LEMON: You haven't seen it. We have it? Let's listen and maybe you can respond.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem in this country, it's called Muslims. We know our current president is one. You know he's not even an American.

TRUMP: We need this question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But anyway, we have training camps growing. They want to kill us. That's my question. When do we get rid of them?

TRUMP: We are going to be looking at a lot of different things. And you know, a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. We are going to be looking at that and plenty of other things.


HEWITT: Well, that definitely warrants a follow-up question, Don. President Obama is not a Muslim. He's a Christian. There are training camps and therefore a valid concern. And I go back to my Quds-Kurds thing with Donald Trump. You have to ask the candidate what they heard and you have to believe it. Now, I've been in 500 stadiums, audiences where people say something and you just don't hear it. I'm sure you've experienced this as well. LEMON: I have because I remember responding to a question about --

once about automatic weapons and I could not hear. I was in a crowd. There was a protest going on. I couldn't hear what the person and I got slammed for it. I really couldn't even hear that the other person was saying. But I understand what you're saying. He is saying he didn't hear it. And that's the response --

HEWITT: I didn't know that. OK. There you go.

LEMON: There are people who are in the crowd who are making faces going no, no, no. So I --

HEWITT: Because President Obama is a Christian. He is not a Muslim. And if he heard the second part that there are training camps, there are. That's a legitimate concern. So I'm with Donald Trump on this. And I learned from my exchange with him last time, you have to make sure they understand the question and back up a little bit and make sure they are answering what you asked. So I'm not going -- I'll definitely follow up with him. But if he's already said he didn't hear it, I buy that.

LEMON: I agree with you on that. I do agree with you on that. So, let's -- what you are talking about came up in the debate last night. Here it is.


[23:05:07] TRUMP: Well, I heard Hugh Hewitt, a nice man, he apologize because he actually said that we had a misunderstanding and he said today that Donald Trump is maybe the best interview there is anywhere that he's ever done. Now, unless he was just saying that on CNN to be nice, but he did say that.

HEWITT: You are the best interview in America.

TRUMP: We had a legitimate misunderstanding in terms of his mispronunciation of a word. But I would say, just -- well, I think it was. And he actually said that. Didn't you say that?

HEWITT: It makes an interesting thing.

TRUMP: OK. So, I will say this, though. Hugh was giving me name after name, Arab name, Arab name, and there are few people anywhere, anywhere that would have known those names. I think he was reading them off a sheet.


LEMON: A few things, Don. I wasn't reading them off a sheet. I know about Sulimani (ph) and I have known about Zawahiri since I read "the Looming Tower" years ago. But I will say this. When someone doesn't hear, it's a legitimate issue. And he is the best interview in America and I will tell you why. Every single show on America, if Donald Trump calls up and says I'll do your show, they book him immediately. They move -- you know, right now if Donald Trump calls in, Don Lemon, Hugh Hewitt is off set. Donald Trump is on the set. LEMON: No, I'd need your help. But I understand what you are saying.

Yes, he is a great interview because you don't know what he's going to say. And he is authentic. And you know, the same thing that when you see him out speaking to people. He does this stream of consciousness that makes for good television. I'm looking forward to your next interview and having you back on to this discuss.

HEWITT: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: A pleasure. I appreciate it, sir.

Now I want to bring in Bob Beckel. He is a columnist for "USA Today. Katrina Pierson of the Teat Party Leadership Fund and also CNN commentator Buck Sexton.

Good to have you in the 11:00 hour eastern on CNN.

Bob, Donald Trump was just on FOX. Listen to this.


TRUMP: It was a little bit like WWE, the great Vince McMahon who was a terrific guy the way. And every question had to do with me. It was Mr. Trump said this. Mr. Trump. I think they said 46 percent of the questions had something like that. So I thought it was a little bit unusual.


LEMON: What's your reaction, Bob?

BOB BECKEL, POLITICAL ANALYST/COLUMNIST, USA TODAY: Well, he thought it was unusual they were going to ask a lot of questions about Donald Trump? I mean, Donald Trump has absolutely dominated the political arena for the Republicans. Of course they'll ask him a lot of questions. I don't think they asked him some tougher questions. They could have.

But I tell you again, the guy defies the law of political gravity. I mean, he gets away with this stuff. I don't think it's going to last forever. So far, he's been able to wade south through policy issues and not come up with a single policy and people think he has.

LEMON: Katrina, the day after the debate and the headlines weren't - they weren't all about Donald Trump. Were you surprised?

KATRINA PIERSON, TEA PARTY LEADERSHIP FUND: No, I'm not surprised at all. I mean, we knew going in, everybody knew going in this was going to be somewhat of a dog pile on Donald Trump. Turns out that's exactly what it was. And I'm actually happy to see other people making headlines because now we can finally look at what other people's policies are going to be if there is even going to be push to put them out like they did with Donald Trump.

LEMON: OK. You know, no one can say that Carly Fiorina, though, didn't give some specifics. I want you to listen to one of her answers. This is about foreign policy.


CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Having met Vladimir Putin, I wouldn't talk to him at all. We've talked way too much to him. What I would do immediately is begin rebuilding the 6th fleet. I would begin rebuilding the missile defense program in Poland. I would conduct regular aggressive military exercises in the Baltic States. I would probably send a few thousand more troops into Germany. Vladimir Putin would get the message.

By the way, the reason it's so critically important that every one of us know General Sulemani's name is because Russia is in Syria right now because the head of the Quds force travelled to Russia and talked Vladimir Putin into aligning themselves with Iran and Syria to prop up Bashar al-Assad. Russia is a bad actor. But Vladimir Putin is someone we should not tack to because the only way he will stop is to sense strength and resolve on the other side. And we have all of that within our control.

We could rebuild the 6th fleet. I will. We have it. We could rebuild the missile defense system. We haven't. I will. We could also give, to Senator Rubio's point, give the Egyptians what they've asked for which is intelligence. We could give the Jordanians what they've asked for, bombs and materiel. We have not supply it. I will. We could arm the Kurds. They have been asking us for three years. All of this is within our control.



LEMON: I kept thinking, she would not stop. The moderator could not - but you know, are those realistic foreign policy goals, do you think?


LEMON: Buck Sexton.

BUCK SEXTON, CNN COMMENTATOR: I think the specifics that she put out are all sound and good ones with the exception of refusing to speak to Putin. We're not at war with Russia. I don't think that that would be the best way to go forward. But I do think that putting in place some of the things she talked about would be sensible.

What she was doing is really trying to draw a contrast between what a sort of muscular U.S. foreign policy would look like versus what we've seen over the course of the Obama years. And she also gets a contrast, by the way, to Donald Trump who has when he speaks on foreign policy, more than any other issue by the way, when he talks about foreign policy, he sure goes off into these vague notions of we're just going to be strong and I speak to smart people and I have watched military stuff on TV. That's actually I think Trump's weakest suit. Now, he kind of admits that's his weak area. But when you are looking

at the two people who came out that debate with a lot of the headlines and at least a lot of the polling if not momentum numbers, it's Trump and Fiorina. And Fiorina which speaks about foreign policy shows a contrast between somebody who studies up and knows the issues at a high level and Trump who is just sort of relying on the Trump show. And by the way, I think he looked he was kind of tired of the Trump show last night himself.

[23:10:56] LEMON: I got two seconds, Bob. Go ahead.

BECKEL: Will you really put U.S. military exercises in the Baltics? Do you think that's a legitimate thing to live?

SEXTON: Do I think that it would legitimate the ball thing, the Baltics or the Balkans? I didn't hear you.


SEXTON: The Baltics, of course. It is a NATO ally.

BECKEL: Would you go into the Baltics and do that?

SEXTON: Yes, Bob. We do those sorts of things all the time. In fact, we're upping our training right now with countries in the Baltics because they are terrified because of Russia's aggression on its peripheral not just in Ukraine. They're concerned it and they know their own history, Bob.

BECKEL: If I had more time, if don doesn't have more time, he's going to throw us off.

LEMON: You're all going to come back.

BECKEL: It can be refuted every single one of those.

SEXTON: Id can be refuted I think if you are going to refuted that way it would be wrong but you could try to refute it.

LEMON: OK. Standby. We are going to continue this conversation. You guys are coming back in the show, OK? So stay with me, everyone.

When we come right back, more hits and misses from last night's debate, and the moments that some people never saw coming. We'll be right back.


[23:15:33] LEMON: One of the hottest issues in our CNN debate, some of the business records of some of the candidates. I want you to listen to Donald Trump blasting Carly Fiorina last night.


TRUMP: The head of the Yale business school Jeff Sonnenfeld wrote a paper recently, one of the worst tenures for a CEO that he's ever seen ranked one of the top 20 in the history of business, the company is a disaster and continues to be a disaster. They still haven't recovered. In fact today on the front page of "the Wall Street Journal," they fired another 25,000 or 30,000 people saying we still haven't recovered from the catastrophe.


LEMON: The man who Donald Trump mentioned there joins me now. Jeff Sonnenfeld is the senior associate Dean for executive programs at Yale school of management.

We're so glad to have you here. You were name checked in that debate. And I want to play what Carly Fiorina's response was. Here it is.


FIORINA: Jeff Sonnenfeld is a well-known Clintonite and honestly had it out for me from the moment that I arrived at Hewlett-Packard. But honestly, Mr. Trump, I find it quite rich that you would talk about this.


LEMON: Is that true? What's your response? Do you support Hillary? Are you out to get Carly Fiorina?

JEFF SONNENFELD, YALE SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT: No. You know, in the last few weeks I've had private meetings with for different Republican presidential candidates. Not paid. Just people who have asked if they'd do some brainstorming. I'd like to see these exchanges for a patriotic reasons that each person play to their best and kind of sharpen what their points are and get away from the personal objectives and name calling.

So I haven't thrown my hat behind any party or candidate. But I think James Carville and Paul Begala and George Stephanopoulos maybe surprised that I was suddenly there where there in the closets that they didn't know about. I sure would love to know about before so I'd know where to send some invoices. No, that's completely false.


SONNENFELD: And she makes that stuff up. But Don, there's something that is really indicative about that which is where we fall victims in the media and why she was such a bad CEO is she tends to criticize the critic. She discredits the critic rather than try to listen or learn or address the issues if she disagrees. It is disloyalty is any kind of dissent is equated with disloyalty. She's really harsh.

LEMON: You're talking about her tenure as CEO of Hewlett-Packard, correct?

SONNENFELD: As CEO, that was her modus operandi. Even if you were a board member, let alone are lieutenants or employees, the way she would treat, you know, me and my name is to shift the issue. Instead of address how did you do as CEO, it's to discredit the source. LEMON: OK. I want you to listen -- this is from Donald Trump's town

hall tonight. It came up again. Here it is.


TRUMP: I thought I would wait a couple of days before I exposed her business failure. But honestly, it's so ridiculous. In fact yesterday on the front page of "the Wall Street Journal," big story, main story that Hewlett-Packard, that they are dropping about what, 30,000 jobs? Now, they are still recovering. They may never. Who know if they are going to recover? But -- and then she is -- everyone saying she made a good speech yesterday. I don't know. I don't get it. I don't get it.


LEMON: What's the truth there?

SONNENFELD: And the problem there, Don, is too often it's, of course, in this political campaign, it's political reporters that are grilling her and not business reporters. So she uses statistics that are very misleading. She'll talk about having doubled revenues. People think that is a good thing. (INAUDIBLE), it doesn't matter. She was stapling together obsolete businesses from all dying companies like Compaq and Digital Equipment that were very low margin businesses. The exact businesses that IBM was coincidentally getting out of these devices. She went into heavy metal. That was a disaster. She doubled the size of the company. They didn't do anything to help the profits. As a matter of fact, during the five years she was CEO, profits in the country were up about 75 percent and S&P 500 firms. But for her shareholder wealth was slashed in half, 55 percent. You were poorer during the five years she was CEO and what did she get? She got $100 million for doing that to us.

The only good news she ever brought to that stock price was the day she was fired the stock went up seven percent. Now, she argues the board was wrong, the analysts were, the employees were wrong. Everyone was wrong except her. OK, fine, let's say everybody is wrong.

Ten years later. How come she's never gotten a job at CEO? You don't go from a fired technology leader to the commander of the free world without any, you know, exoneration or any efforts to show that you've learned something or improved along the way.

[23:20:20] LEMON: You know, you are being pretty hard on Carly Fiorina. But she took some swipes at Trump for his business failures, four bankruptcies. Trump insists that he never went bankrupt. So what's the truth there?

SONNENFELD: The truth there is this is where I think Donald Trump makes a big mistake. He shouldn't be embarrassed about those setbacks. Of the hundreds of deals he did that three or four of them went into, he doesn't likely used the bankruptcy word. He wants to use the "R" word for restructuring. He may not be aware of this. But not only is Steve Jobs and other get fired but Walt Disney went bankrupt three times. Henry Ford went bankrupt twice.

It takes a while to get great businesses off the ground sometimes. And in fact, in no country, in no content and no religion is somebody a hero unless they've had suffered crushing setbacks. It is the redemption of the human character from adversity that leads us to think this person knows something we don't know.

So the fact that Trump, he wrote a book called "the art of the deal." He like talking about, it's the art of the comeback that makes the difference. That resilience. And that's what he has shown. I mean, Carly Fiorina cites Steve Jobs or she just like Bernie Marcus of the home depot who had been and recreated that business or Jack Vogel who created Vanguard. Many of our finest CEOs had been fired or they had some terrible adversity, but they got through it. And that's what she never got through. She's like the captain of the "Costa Concordia" that crashes it into the shores of Tuscany.

LEMON: You are really hard on her. All right, Jeff.

SONNENFELD: Well, and since she is captains of industry should be accountable. You know, she has a track record. She has track record for nothing else other than running this company and she ran it into the ground.

LEMON: Fair enough. Jeff, thank you. Appreciate you joining us here on CNN.


LEMON: Thank you. Please come back.

Now, I want to bring in our Chris Moody, CNN reporter for CNN politics.

My goodness. He is really on there. A number of candidates made claims last night that aren't holding up. I want you to listen to this exchange and then we'll discuss.


JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You wanted casino gambling in Florida.

TRUMP: I didn't want.

BUSH: Yes, you did.

TRUMP: Totally false.

BUSH: You didn't get it and you didn't get because I was oppose to casino gambling before, during and after.

BUSH: Excuse me. One second.



TRUMP: More energy tonight. I like that.


LEMON: True or false? Who is right?

CHRIS MOODY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Don, let my take you back to the 1990s. Donald Trump wanted to partner -- work with the Seminole tribe to have casinos in the state of Florida. He donated a lot of money to the Florida GOP and held fundraisers for Jeb Bush who was looking like he would be the next governor of the state, and he was. But Jeb Bush was very strong in his opposition to casinos. And once Jeb was elected, he made it clear in his campaign that he would not approve any casino plans and that's when Donald Trump dropped his movements toward that.

He hired a consultant to try to look into this for him. He was looking into it. But he didn't pursue it really very much or at all after Jeb Bush had been elected. I think in this exchange, Jeb Bush is right.

Now, there are also other forces in Florida, entertainment companies like Disney that, you know, probably do not want casino gambling because it's a family friendly area.

LEMON: So the point goes to Jeb Bush.

All right, Donald Trump raised eyebrows with this statement on vaccines. Here it is.


TRUMP: Autism has become an epidemic. Twenty five years ago, 35 years ago, you look at the statistics, not even close. It has gotten totally out of control. I am totally in favor of vaccines, but I want smaller doses over a longer period of time.

We've had so many instances, people that work for me just the other day. Two years old, 2 1/2 years old, the beautiful child went to have the vaccine and came back and a week later got a tremendous fever. Got very, very sick. Now is autistic.


LEMON: So CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta and many other experts say there is zero evidence that vaccines cause autism. The two doctors on that stage gave pretty weak responses to that. Should they have been more forceful?

MOODY: Well, the response from the medical community in the aftermath of the debate has been really responsive. Really incredibly angry, I think, in what you have seen. And frustrated by not only what Donald Trump said about vaccines, but also the way doctors responded.

Yes, I think, if you defer to them, they would say that, yes, they should have countered Trump more forcefully. There were statements put out by a number of medical organizations that said no, there is no link to autism with vaccines. And also on this other point Donald Trump made, there is no purpose to changing the schedule in which children receive those vaccines.

LEMON: OK, Chris. So Chris Christie made a passionate statement about being named prosecutor the day before America was attacked on 9/11. Here it is.


[23:25:06] GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jake, I was named U.S. attorney by President Bush September 10th, 2001. And that next day my wife Mary Pat, do what she did every day, she traveled through the world trade center and went to her office two blocks from the world trade center. And after those planes hit for 5 1/2 hours after that, I couldn't reach her. Didn't know whether she was dead or alive and we had three children at that time - eight, five and one.


LEMON: What's the truth there, Chris?

MOODY: This one is I don't think as bad as the past ones. Chris Christie learned that he would be named that appointment on September 10th, and the appointment was delayed because of the events that happened on 9/11, the background checks and the process of making that appointment. So the spirit of what he saying is true. It is just he might have phrased it the wrong way. He spoke to CNN earlier today. Take a listen.


CHRISTIE: I got the call from the White House on September 10th, 2001, from Judge Gonzalez, the White House counsel, saying the president has selected you to be U.S. attorney. It was reported the next day in the newspapers along with some other news, and then everything happened on September 11th. And then my appointment was put off because every FBI agent in America was working on the attacks as they should have been and not doing background check on presidential appointees. So I would not taking office until January. But I was named on September 10th, 2001. Go back and check the newspapers. That's when the president named me. I didn't take office until January.


LEMON: But he wasn't official until months later, right?

MOODY: Right. His campaign has said in the aftermath of the debate last night that he did misspeak and he should have said he learned that he would receive that appointment, that not he was appointed. And in the grand scheme of things, I don't think what he said last night really matters that much. But if you look at the other things we fact check tonight, Donald

Trump on vaccines, that could have huge ramifications. Like you said the medical community is really going crazy in response to that and trying to push back. But you know, so many people were watching that debate that they could be misled that there could be a link between autism and vaccines.

LEMON: Nice work. Thank you, Chris Moody. Appreciate it.

MOODY: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: When we come back, only one woman on the debate stage. Bit which candidate is strongest on women's issues?


[23:30:25] LEMON: Carly Fiorina is getting a lot of praise for her debate performance, especially confronting Donald Trump.


FIORINA: You know, it's interesting to me, Mr. Trump said that he heard Mr. Bush very clearly. And what Mr. Bush said? I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.


TRUMP: I think she's got a beautiful face, and I think she's a beautiful woman.


LEMON: So back now, Bob Beckel, Katrina Pierson and Buck Sexton.

I told you guys that you would be back. You are not talking foreign policy now.

But, I mean, Bob, one woman versus ten men and she dropped the mic right there. What made her so strong?

BECKEL: Well, I mean, just that. I mean, one of the things that she's strong because she's one of, however many they've got now. But secondly, Trump, as I said on your show last week, I thought what he said about her, there's a difference between being tough, which is what Donald Trump likes to be, and being mean. And he crossed the line. I think she missed an opportunity to go straight at him as oppose to say all women in America hurt him. But nonetheless, they made the point.

And also the applause you heard -- I've been in these debate halls. I don't know many times. We all bring our own supporters in. And every time Trump gets dumped on, everybody is going to cheer. You know, that was not his supporter.

But she's got a real problem now, though. She's raised expectations. And if she doesn't meet those expectations in the next debate, she'll find the presidential game is a game of expectations and you better be able to exceed them.

LEMON: Well, as you heard Bob brings up a good point because last time she was in the undercard debate. Everyone says she did really well, but that really did not translate in the polls, Buck.

SEXTON: Look. She's obviously in a much better position now. I don't think she wouldn't think where she is, is a problem. She is much happier being on the big stage and really being the big story after last night in doing very well.

Look. The key moment of that entire three-hour debate was that Carly Fiorina went head-to-head, toe-to-toe with Donald Trump and came out the victor in the exchange. And that's really the first time that we've seen somebody mix it up with Trump and actually look like they got the better of Trump playing his game or actually being unwilling to play his game.

So that was a very strong moment for her. One of the points that everybody remembers I think with good reason. She has a lot of momentum now behind her. And look. She also has a lot of skills she brings to the table that are beyond just the general identity card. We will leave that to Hillary Clinton. She's somebody who actually is trying to run on the merits and on what she's saying and on her record despite what was said about her record before we came on here a moment ago.

LEMON: All right. Let's talk about - let's talk about gender again. Let's talk about women. Because more about women issues. One of the last questions of the evening was which woman should be added to the $10 bill. Here's what the men answered.


SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Susan B. Anthony might be a good choice.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who else could possibly be on that money other than my wife and that way she could spend her own money.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Rosa Parks. An everyday American that changed the course of history.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I very much agree with Marco that it should be Rosa Parks.

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd put my mother on there.

TRUMP: Because she's been sitting for three hours, I think my daughter Ivanka. Other than that, we'll go with Rosa Parks.

BUSH: I'd go with Ronald Reagan's partner Margaret Thatcher. Probably illegal, but what the heck?

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R-WI), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will put Clara Barton. I went to work for the American Red Cross. GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would pick mother


CHRISTIE: So I will put Abigail Adams in the bill.


LEMON: Katrina is that - I mean, is that really the best they could do? What do you think of that?

PIERSON: You know, Don, I have to say, I was extremely disappointed with many of those answers. Particularly those where the woman wasn't even an American. That was a real opportunity for these men to show, you know, their desire or respect for any of the women that were actual choice to be put on the money. And some of them just went way out of the ballpark. I was disappointed.

[23:35:14] LEMON: I was wondering why they didn't have better answers. Because you think of it, I mean, just when we were talking about in a meeting and I said Sandra Day O'Connor. Maybe Ruth baiter Ginsburg, Harriet Tubman, Eleanor Roosevelt could have been mentioned. Well, they did Susan B. Anthony. Any person like that.

BECKEL: How about Huckabee saying his wife? I mean, come on. I mean, and then Ben Carson saying his mother. Obviously, was a wonderful woman, but. I mean, this was a time I couldn't agree with you more. This was a time to say something serious and make a point. And I think that there are some of them were quite good. But the rest of them were off the wall.

LEMON: (INAUDIBLE) Sojourner Truth. There are a bunch of people. But here's how Carly Fiorina responded.


FIORINA: I wouldn't change the $10 bill or $20 bill. I think honestly it's a gesture. I don't think it helps to change our history. What I would think is we ought to recognize that women are not a special interest group. Women are the majority of this nation. We are half the potential of this nation and this nation will be better off when every woman as the opportunity to live the life she chooses.


LEMON: Does she have an advantage as the only woman? But go ahead.

SEXTON: I was going to say that's kind a summary I think of what Carly's - Carly Fiorina appeal to women is across the country. She's not saying vote for me because I'm a woman. She is saying vote for me because I'm a woman who happens to be the best person for this job, which I think is a clear distinction between the identity politics you see played time and time again on the Democratic side of aisles.

So she is just saying look. I don't want to get into these empty gestures. And I also don't want to be making an appeal to people just based upon my gender. I think I am the best person. I think I should be the next commander in-chief and we should be focused on those issues. Some of the answers last were better than others. Some people sort to a dodge. I liked Carly's answer because it shows that's how she's trying to make the appeal. She says a majority of the U.S. population that really doesn't need to be pandered to. We don't need to hear about all these nonsense.

LEMON: Not a niche group.

SEXTON: It's not the way it should go.

PIERSON: That is exactly right.

LEMON: Thank you guys. That's the last word. Appreciate it. Have a great evening. I appreciate you guys coming in.

SEXTON: Thank Don.

LEMON: Up next, one issue looming large in many towns and cities across America didn't come up at the debate. We are going to tell you what it was when we come right back.


[23:41:29] LEMON: The Black Lives Matter movement is spreading across the country, yet the subject of race in America did not come up in last night's debate. Want to talk about this with Tara Setmeyer, CNN's political commentator and Republican strategist. Van Jones, CNN political commentator and a former Obama administration official.

So Van, you never know how these things are going to go. It's tough to sort of wrangle the candidates. You could see that Jake did a good job in doing that last night. But right after the debate, he did say that he wished that he'd gotten to ask about the vets and about Black Lives Matter. What would you have wanted to hear?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I think there was an opportunity there. You know, Rand Paul did at least try to address it. He was talking about drug policy reform and he mentioned that he felt there was too much of a racial bias.

LEMON: Stop right there. Let's listen.


SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's at least one prominent example on the stage of someone who said they smoked pot in high school and yet the people going to jail for this are poor people, often African-Americans and often Hispanics, yet the rich kids who use drugs aren't.


LEMON: Well, here, to see what you are talking about. Go ahead, Van.

JONES: And I thought that was very important. Because it's sort of that, in some ways, the elephant in the room. We all know that kids across the country do drugs more than they should. But literally, black kids and white kids do drugs at the same level. Six times more likely to go to prison if you are black. Everybody knows that. It is a shame in the country.

I thought there was an opportunity for other Republicans to at least express some concern about that. And it just dropped like a lead balloon. I think that kind of thing is unfortunate. Makes it seem that maybe the Republican Party doesn't care about all Americans equally. I hope it's not true but sure looks that way sometimes.

LEMON: Yes. And the surprised that did not come up as well.

Now, while the debate was going on. White House senior advisor Valerie Jarrett and other Obama officials met with several Black Lives Matter activists. And that was last night. And here is what they said and they just tweeted a picture so you see that. Should the GOP be more involved here in trying to understand and speak with members of this movement?

TARA SETMEYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't see that they necessarily have not. Have the Black Lives Matter folks reached out to any of the Republican candidates or tried to meet with them?

LEMON: You'd have to ask them. I'm not sure.

SETMEYER: Yes. I'm just saying. I'm not sure about that. But I mean, as long as you have members of this movement running around, chanting death to police officers and describing them like pigs and bacon --

JONES: That's a small number.

SETMEYER: It doesn't matter. It's still part of this. It is an aspect of it. And I have not heard the president of the United States or anyone else on that side strongly condemn that aspect of it and be fair about what's going on.

JONES: This was definite tea party --


LEMON: Hang on, guys. Let's not get off topic here because we are - Tara.

SETMEYER: But that is the reality what's going on in parts of this movement. So if the Republican --

LEMON: That argument is so two weeks ago. We discussed that already.

SETMEYER: No, I understand that but you're asking me should the Republicans be more involved in the Black Lives Matter movement and understanding it. And I'm explaining to you why there's a certain stand off-ishness about necessarily getting involved in that aspect of the movement because this is a real part of it. You have police officers being gunned down. You have the racial aspects of that. There is target on police officers. So it's a very tense thing here.

LEMON: Van --

SETMEYER: Address this, they can address it from a perspective that all lives matter. But no one is going to get run off stage in a Republican primary by saying that all American lives matter.

[23:45:02] LEMON: Why they may be hesitant, Van, is remember when Black Lives Matter reached out to the Democratic Party and they basically, they sent them a response. I mean, the Democratic Party reached out to Black Live Matter and they basically said, you know, we're not associated with any political group. So is it even worth Republicans sort of getting engaged in this?

JONES: First of all, I really do think that it is. And I remember a different Republican party. I remember Jack Kemp. My father, a strong Democrat but really loved Jack Kemp, because Jack Kemp, a great Republican leader, he reached out. He talked to African-Americans who want to talk to Republicans and who want to talk to Democrats. And somehow to Americans who didn't want to talk to anybody, he was there. And what you don't see enough, and I think is a terrible, terrible thing, is people who are willing to look past a couple of nut jobs at one rally and say there are tens of thousands of young people who are African-American who at least care enough to march. Now, obviously you don't say terrible things, but that's an opportunity to engage. I would love to see a Republican party go back to those Jack Kemp days and reach out to that moment.

SETMEYER: Jack Kemp was -- that's right. Jack Kemp was phenomenal and power America was great about empowerment zones and teaching entrepreneurship in the minority community and conservative values and why that instead of a handout from the government is more beneficial. Teaching people how to fish.

JONES: Black Lives Matter doesn't ask for handouts.


SETMEYER: Have you looked at some of the -- they are asking for more than that. Their agenda is way more than that. And it's, you know, concerning to some folks. But what I -- what is unfair is to say that Republicans don't care about minorities or that there's no engagement. How -- could they do a better job? Absolutely. I think there is, for years, I have always said that communicating the message effectively in the minority community has been an area the Republican Party can improve on. That does not mean because they're not entertaining Black Lives Matter that they don't care about certain issues. I don't it's not fair to equate the two.

LEMON: Van, last word.

JONES: Listen. I agree with you that, you know, whether it's one group or not, but I do think there's an optics (ph) issue, there is a challenge. Even Priebus himself has said there's a challenge there and there was a missed opportunity. I think you have to admit, you didn't see the opportunity taken to really reach out to the African- American community. And I think that -- I hope in the next debate they do.

LEMON: Because whoever wins --

SETMEYER: They weren't --

LEMON: Whoever wins is going to need African-American votes. So, yes, it's going to be a missed opportunity.

SETMEYER: That's true. It's going to be a general election issue and whoever the Republican candidate is needs to be prepared for that, absolutely.

LEMON: Thank you both very much.

Up next, what the candidates said on stage and what their body language tells voters.


CARSON: I suggested to President Bush that he not go to war, OK? So I just want that On the Record.


[23:51:39] LEMON: Candidates had a lot to say about themselves last night, but their body language was just as revealing. We want to talk about that with Patrick Stewart, associate professor at the University of Arkansas. Razorbacks. He specialize the nonverbal communication (INAUDIBLE). I had to get that jab in as an LSU tiger.

Good evening, sir.

PATRICK STEWART, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS: Good evening. Thank you for having me on again.

LEMON: Yes. Our pleasure.

So Patrick, you know, we saw a couple awkward moments last night I want you to take a look at. This is Marco Rubio and Chris Christie (INAUDIBLE) that felt flat.


RUBIO: And I'm also aware that California has a drought. And so, that's why I made sure I brought my own water.

CHRISTIE: Hi. My name is Chris Christie. And I'd like you to take the camera off me and put it on the audience because I would like to ask all of you. How many of you, if raise your hand, believe that in today's Barack Obama America your children will have a better life than you've had? You see? That's why I'm running for president.


LEMON: OK. Crickets in the audience. What happened there, Patrick? STEWART: OK. Well, you want to start with Marco Rubio because I

think this is really interesting. Because making a good joke is really hard. And doing that as parley as he did just reflected how he did not know his audience. And what you make humor, you have to violate expectations somehow. And he was making fun of himself when he was responding to Barack Obama's state of the union address and his groping for water.

Now when he's dealing with an audience who is dealing with drought that is socially displacing them, economically, it is causing pain and there's even a threat of death and life-changing activities, that joke just went over terribly. It was too close. It was too soon. It wasn't a benign violation of humor. It was just a violation of expectation.

LEMON: Well, that water thing, though, I think is in most people's rearview mirror. Had he not brought it up, I don't think people would even think about it.

You know, there was also this fun moment that came towards the end of the night. Candidates were asked what their secret service name would be if they were president. Here's what it is.


BUSH: Eveready. It's very high energy, Donald.


LEMON: Awkward.

So Bush smacked him pretty hard there, I mean. How did you view that exchange?

STEWART: Well, OK. The great thing is when you look at this in slow motion. Firs of all, you have to deal with Donald Trump is a germophobe and he is averse to any physical contact. And here he is offering his hand.

Now, when Jeb Bush comes down, he comes down hard and Donald Trump's arm just recoils backwards. But if you look at Jeb Bush's face, you see this micro expression of anger. His jaw is clenched, his lower teeth are showing, his lips are thin. He's angry and it's a reflection of all that happened beforehand leading up to the debate, during the debate. It was just an incredible moment. Textbook moment of anger showing up on someone's face.

LEMON: That's anger? That's anger for Jeb Bush? My goodness.

STEWART: Well, it's -- if you look at it micro momentary is someone who is very much in control of himself. That brief moment that shows through. It's pretty awesome.

[23:55:04] LEMON: OK. So as we talk about this, we can look at the many faces of Donald Trump. So I want you to talk to me about what that says about him. And we'll scroll through them. STEWART: OK. So the one thing I'd like to say about Donald Trump is

that he works the audience and he works large audiences. You notice that he's been going. He worked Cleveland audience very well there. You have thousands and thousands of people. And he goes in front of thousands of people, supporters of him, and he does a great job. So one of the ways to look at him is to look at him as a Shakespearean actor. Maybe even a professional wrestler. And remember, he had a stint in the WWE, or the WWF at the time. So what he's doing is he is doing broad gestures. The problem is, he's on TV. He's in front of 500 staunch Republicans who are very subdued, and he's got a camera right on him, so his facial displays are overacting.

LEMON: Yes. I enjoyed watching his facial expressions.

Thank you, Patrick Stewart.

We'll be right back.