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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Pope Francis's U.S. Visit; Sanders on Pope's Address. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired September 24, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Or sitting in their living rooms when their husbands died because that's where he spent his time.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: We're expecting the Pope to come out any moment now. And then he'll go to Catholic Charities. Catholic Charities, obviously, a very important organization in Washington, D.C., and throughout the - throughout the country.

Father, the former head of Catholic Charities came out of retirement and is now the U.S. ambassador to the Holy See.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think John may know him better than I.

ALLEN: Yes, Ken Hackett was the head of Catholic Charities. He was actually the head of Catholic Relief Services. There are two different charitable organizations run by the church in America. Catholic Charities USA is kind of the domestic charity. Catholic Relief Services is the overseas arm and Ken was president of the overseas part. But he certainly worked very closely with Catholic - he comes out of that world, so to speak. And he's very much part of the kind of church that I think -

TAPPER: Here's the Pope. Here's the Pope coming out of St. Peter's right now.

ALLEN: By the way, the cleric you always see beside (INAUDIBLE) waiting for him, Monsignor Mark Miles, who is a native of Gibraltar and therefore speaks perfect Spanish and perfect English.

TAPPER: And we heard him from the balcony of the U.S. Capitol when the Pope spoke.

ALLEN: That's absolutely right.

Just in case our viewers are wondering why this (INAUDIBLE) -

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I was just going to say, but I thought I better not say. Very pronounced (INAUDIBLE). Here he goes again. He loves this.

TAPPER: (INAUDIBLE).

AMANPOUR: Yes, he lights up.

TAPPER: (INAUDIBLE) when he sees members of the public, that's where - that's when his face lights up. (INAUDIBLE).

AMANPOUR: And you have to get energy from somewhere. This man is 78 years old. We've been told that he has a pretty bad spasm and attack of sciatica on this trip and he's up on his feet and talking at great length and moving around the city just from dawn to dusk practically in this only two days into a six-day trip. He's got New York. He's got Philadelphia. And - and -

ALLEN: And let's not remember, three days in Cuba before that.

AMANPOUR: Well, exactly.

TAPPER: This must have been exhausting.

John, there were reports from a few months ago about Pope Francis saying that he could see himself doing what his predecessor did, which is - well, let's take a listen to this.

MONSIGNOR MARK MILES: The Holy Father is now prepared (ph) to give his blessing to you all.

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

MILES: And enjoy your meal.

AMANPOUR: And as he wished all those people who have been waiting for such a long time, bon appetit, "enjoy your meal," or "buen apetito," as he said, I think, in Spanish -

TAPPER: Probably portanio (ph).

AMANPOUR: Something. Yes, something.

ALLEN: Yes, (INAUDIBLE).

AMANPOUR: He also said in the speech, in the prayer that he was giving at St. Patrick's, that it is unconscionable to have homeless in a nation such as this, in any of our developed nations. And I think that's something that one really needs to focus on because I think people who see homeless in rich and wealthy countries are always very, very surprised.

ALLEN: Yes, I think that's right. And, of course, it's a lesson that certainly comes home to you in Rome. I mean when I first started covering the Vatican 20 years ago, one of the things I was blown away by was the fact that the minute you step outside of St. Peter's Square, as you walk down those grand - that grand Via della Conciliazione, that leads away from the square, you know, you will find homeless people sometimes sleeping in cartons on the side of the street, which is one of the reasons Pope Francis encouraged his director of charities in Rome not only to go out at night and distribute sandwiches to these people, but also to build showers so they could come in and clean themselves up. I mean that may not seem like very much, but it's a bit of symbolism that speaks volumes about this pope's priorities. AMANPOUR: Well, it might be a perfect moment, it's sort of a lunch

break. For Jake Tapper, John Allen, Father Kasiki (ph), we hand over to our colleague Ashleigh Banfield as she takes away with this next part of the Pope's day here in Washington, D.C.

Ashleigh.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Christiane, thank you, as we continue - Christiane, thank you, as we continue our live coverage. This is Ashleigh Banfield reporting to you live from New York.

This is a day of firsts, among many days of firsts, on a six-day visit to the United States by Pope Francis. You might say the Pope is in his element, kissing babies, meeting with the people, walking among the poor, addressing the homeless, and feeding the homeless. All of this on the heels of a historic visit to the United States Congress where he addressed a joint meeting of Congress and effectively gave a calm and gentle dressing down to all of the ills he says afflict us and that we need to fix, some of them political, some of them just general and moral.

[12:05:28] Now, after an address at the church that he's just exited, St. Patrick Catholic Church, he has walked next door to the Washington office of Catholic Charities. Instead of having a highbrow lunch with all of the leaders of Washington's elite, he has chosen instead to be here among about 200 clients of Catholic Charities, the poor, the homeless, the abused and the immigrants who are struggling. And you can see him smiling as he greets those and walks among them. He will be among them for the luncheon as well. And my colleague, Carol Costello, is there with him as well.

Take me there, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, Ashleigh Banfield, I wish you could be here with me because this is unbelievable. It is amazing. The people are literally surrounding the Pope. He is shaking their hands. He is touching them. It's just a beautiful sight.

And I'm glad you called them clients, Ashleigh, because Catholic Charities say we have to get rid of terms like "the poor" and "the homeless" because it only dehumanizes these people who are only looking to regain their dignity. And that's really why the Pope came here today, Ashleigh. He wants to give dignity back to these people so they can lift themselves up out of poverty.

I'm hoping that he sits down and eats with a few. And in case you're wondering, they're eating boneless breast of chicken and Asian macaroni salad and steamed beans. A very simple meal for a very simple greeting by a very simple man who sent such a powerful message.

BANFIELD: And, Carol, as we watch him wade through the crowd, I can only imagine this is a little unplanned and off script in that he's literally arm to arm and elbow to elbow with the people and his security detail sort of having to squeeze through them to try to keep up. COSTELLO: Oh, yes, you can see the Secret Service surrounding him.

And, of course, everybody says, oh, this is what the Secret Service feared. But I'm telling you, security is so tight around this area, all of these people have been assembled for hours now. They've been through metal detectors. Everything is perfectly safe here. And this is what the Pope really loves to do. He loves to reach out, and he loves to touch people.

Symbolism is very important to him, Ashleigh. As I said to Jake Tapper, words matter, but deeds matter more. This is a pope who is a common man. He wants to act as a common man. He wants to reach out to the common man, to show he is one of them, to give them hope that they can be something more.

And, you know, I talked to one man who's going to eat lunch here today. His name is Joe. He served time in prison, 12 years for robbing a bank. He said he couldn't believe it when Catholic Charities came up to him and said, hey, would you like to have lunch with the Pope? And he said, what? And then he said, you know, I would love to.

The other thing that he was really impressed by - Joe, I'm talking about - he said, you know, the Pope could have had lunch with all of those lawmakers that he just spoke to in the joint session of Congress, but he chose not to. He chose to skip those fabulous lunches and come here and have a simple lunch with the most vulnerable among us.

BANFIELD: Well, if there was any precursor to what was going to happen in this room with these people, it may have come last May, Carol, where he welcomed 150 homeless people from St. Peter's Square inside the Vatican. And it wasn't just a small visit either. He took them on a guided tour. He gave them dinner. And then had prayers at the Sistine Chapel. He's just such a remarkable person and such a remarkable Pope.

As we sort of lose him in the crowd, he's making his way to one of the 55 tables set up for all of those people who have been invited to have lunch with the Pope. He is about to sit down to his chicken and macaroni salad. We are going to take a brief break and rejoin him as he blesses the food, blesses these people and sits down for the common man's lunch.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:13:20] BANFIELD: Welcome back to our continuing live coverage of the third day of the Pope's visit to the United States and it's already been a busy day even though we're just at noon Eastern. This is effectively the second stop for the Pope today. He addressed a joint meeting of Congress earlier today, meeting the speaker of the House, touring through the area, and then through the streets yet again meeting the crowds and he ended up at St. Patrick Catholic Church. And next door to that, he has now progressed to the Washington office of Catholic Charities.

And if you're wondering why he is doing this right now, a luncheon at Catholic Charities, it is the largest private network of social service groups in the United States and there are about between 200 and 300 clients. And when I say "clients," I mean the needy. The Pope specifically wanted to be among the needy. Women who have been abused. People who are homeless. People with mental illnesses. New immigrants who are struggling. They were invited guests of the Pope's as he has come to this location to be with them for their lunch.

And we're seeing right now he has jumped back into his now trademark Fiat and he's heading back through Washington right now. Since this is going to be such a busy day, and imagine your schedule if you did all of this and took a trip to New York as well, the Pope is actually now about to head back through Washington. And I'm not sure if he's going to stop along the way. There are bike racks for a lot of the route and a lot of people have lined those routes hoping that that Fiat might stop. But he's effectively on his way back to the Nunciature, where he will be able to get a small rest, a short rest, before embarking on another journey at 4:00 p.m. on his way to New York City and a whole host of activities when he gets here as well.

[12:15:14] May I just say, we are ready in New York City. This city in Manhattan is effectively paralyzed. Traffic is shut down almost everywhere. There has been security throughout the streets with dogs and guards leading up to today. Yesterday alone, I just noticed it, closures and security everywhere.

The significance of what you just saw, that visit with the homeless. I'm joined now by CNN religious commentator Father Edward Beck. I'm also joined by Father Robert Hussey, who's a Jesuit priest with the Maryland Proventil Jesuits, and also Father Albert Cutie, who you may remember with the name Father Cutie might ring a bell. He's a former catholic priest who left the church in order to get married. He is now with the Episcopal church.

I want to start with you, Father Beck. You've been watching everything this morning from the significant words to Congress. This migration over to the other side of town, instead of a lunch with Congress, he chose the lunch with the homeless and the poor. And there was a significance to the addresses that he gave to both groups. What was it?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: Well, remember, this pope said that we should also take in the homeless at the Vatican, provide barbers for the homeless, feed the homeless. They've started to do this at the Vatican. So here he comes, after this session in Congress, this speech, and he doesn't go to the fancy dinner that they wanted him to go to. He chooses to come here to Catholic Charities to dine with the homeless.

One of the people he evoked as a hero, as a role model in the speech to Congress was Dorothy Day. And a lot of our viewers may not know who Dorothy Day is, but she is the founder of the catholic worker movement. So what did Dorothy Day do? She fed the hungry. She clothed the naked. She gave refuge to the homeless. So right now he is saying one of the heroes he just quoted, this is the mission of the church. So it's such a great juxtaposition of two events together. And I think what the Pope has done is once more he's walking the talk. BANFIELD: So, Father Hussey, if I can bring you in on this

conversation, as being with the Jesuit order. I had a long conversation prior to this live program today with Father Beck about the significance of this Jesuit Pope and his history with the Jesuit order. And I did not know he was effectively exiled when he was a povential (ph) I think about age 34, 36. So he was - he was young. He did not have a good reputation with the Jesuits. And clearly that has changed.

FATHER ROBERT HUSSEY, JESUIT PRIEST: That's correct. He was living in a very tumultuous time with different understandings at his time and for a while he went to Mendosa (ph) and was away from leadership in the order. But, nonetheless, his gifts were clearly recognized and we see who he is as a Jesuit coming out so many ways in the way he speaks and what he does.

I once had an opportunity to speak to him and he said, you know, I just celebrated 57 years as a Jesuit. It was right on his mind. So it's very much who he is.

BANFIELD: Father Cutie, something else that he is, in keeping with a sort of more liberal order of the catholic church, the Jesuits, he is making changes. He's making history. He's trying to make it more inclusive. Perhaps the mission is not just an altruistic one. Perhaps it's also to try to turn the tables of those who are leaving the Catholic Church and be more inclusive and bring more members in. You yourself have had this tumultuous relationship with the Catholic Church. And I wonder if the things you're seeing from this pope go far enough. Do you want to see additional changes, like celibacy, which is effectively the next thing on the radar?

FATHER ALBERT CUTIE, EPISCOPAL PRIEST: Well, it's very interesting. Most Episcopalians are very happy with this pope because we agree I believe on 90 percent of what the Pope is saying. We think that what he's saying is important for the world. And I think that everything on the environment, everything that has to do with immigration, social justice, is exactly the agenda that all Christians would like to see in the world.

I'll tell you what impacted me the most today listening to him speak to Congress is when he emphasized so much that America is a country of immigrants, that we all came from somewhere. And I believe that that's a message we need to hear now because the more - as a Latino, the more I hear about immigration, the more I see that we are becoming a more exclusive nation rather than inclusive. This pope comes to bring an inclusive message not just about religion but also about politics and the way that we run American life each day.

BANFIELD: Well, we are in the thick of political season. And coming up after the break - I'm going to ask all three of you fathers to stand by, if you will - Bernie Sanders, presidential candidate, is going to join us live. He was inside the congressional hall for that address. He's going to give us his thoughts. He's talking to Dana Bash right now.

[12:20:07] Quick break. When we come back, live with Bernie Sanders. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A busy day for Pope Francis as he emerges from St. Patrick's Catholic Church in Washington, D.C., just a few moments ago, having addressed not only the faithful there, having addressed Congress prior to that, and then walking the few short steps next door to where several hundred of the more afflicted members of the community were assembled and waiting, the poor and the homeless and the distressed and those with mental illness. This was his choice for lunch. And here we are in the lunchtime noon hour, Eastern Time.

This was where the Pope found himself perhaps smiling most today, among the people. He greeted. He walked elbow to elbow with those who crowded around him. You can see from this picture, it was hard for his own security detail to get near to him. But the Pope enjoyed a moment with the people. Those people he spoke so highly of in both of his addresses.

So what about the people, the people who are about to be represented by a new president at some point and one of them wants to be Bernie Sanders. He joins CNN's chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash. They are live now on Capitol Hill.

Dana, you are amazing for being able to grab Mr. Sanders. Take it from here.

[12:25:04] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Ashleigh, so much.

And, Senator, thank you very much.

I actually was able to see you from my perch in the visitor's gallery, the press gallery, during this speech. You, just like really pretty much all of your colleagues, were watching so intently. What did you think?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought he did a wonderful job. And I think he is just an extraordinarily unusual person. A leader not just of the Catholic Church, but one of the great moral and religious leaders of our time and in modern history. And I think he came here today and touched on some very, very important issues that a lot of people would prefer not to talk about, and that is the issue of poverty, the issue of environmental degradation, immigration, the death penalty, the need to do everything we can to create a peaceful world. And I think he did it in a very dignified and non-partisan type way.

BASH: Right, because before he actually spoke and before we saw the text of what he was going to say, there was some trepidation really on both sides of the aisle about whether he would kind of give a scolding, which would be tough to take from somebody like the Pope.

SANDERS: Right.

BASH: But it didn't come across that way. SANDERS: No, it didn't. And he is not only - he's a very smart man,

but he also, he understands the politics of the United States. He understands that he was invited by the Republican leadership and it would have been totally inappropriate, I think he believed, to suddenly become partisan and make veiled attacks. And that's not what he did.

But I think it - the remarks that he gave today are consistent with his views that we need a world economy that works for everybody and not just for the wealthy few. That we must pay attention to environmental degradation and climate change. That we have so much poverty that we just cannot turn our backs on it. I think that was the message that came out today and I appreciate it.

BASH: I mean this pope, if you look at where he has decided to be most vocal, it could be a Sanders for president, you know, long bumper sticker.

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: I mean he really does - he really is in line with where you - where you think.

SANDERS: Yes, he is. But, you know, one of the four Americans that he cited was a woman named Dorothy Day.

BASH: Right.

SANDERS: Most people don't know who Dorothy Day was. I think that's fair to say. She was -

BASH: They do now.

SANDERS: They do now. She was a very, very progressive woman, a socialist, who organized working people and the poor to stand up to the wealthy and the powerful and to fight for social justice. The fact that he cited her is, not to mention Martin Luther King Jr., as one of people that he appreciated tells you exactly where this man is coming from in the global world.

BASH: The fact that he talked about a socialist?

SANDERS: Yes. The fact that he talked about somebody who spent her life fighting for the poor and fighting for justice.

BASH: And that's on those issues, but then, of course, when he talked about climate change, saying that it is human made -

SANDERS: Right.

BASH: It's manmade.

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: Talking about immigration -

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: In a way that, as you said, you know, saying it was a golden rule.

SANDERS: Right.

BASH: You know, a lot of issues certainly appeared to make Republicans a bit uncomfortable.

SANDERS: Yes. Yes.

BASH: But then it's the same on the progressive side. I mean he did - he didn't - maybe he wasn't as aggressive in talking about the issue of abortion or same-sex marriage -

SANDERS: Right.

BASH: But he made clear what his personal beliefs are.

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: What the - what the doctrine of the church is.

SANDERS: Look, I think he handled himself in a very dignified way. He was an invited guest and he was not here to make partisan points or to embarrass anybody. And I respect that. And, you're right, certainly for me and for many other progressives, we disagree with the church on issues regarding a woman's right to choose or gay marriage. I support those.

BASH: Now, one last question. You have been around here for a few years.

SANDERS: A few years.

BASH: Seen a few speeches.

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: From presidents, heads of state. Have you ever seen the chamber filled with lawmakers so intently focused?

SANDERS: I think not. I think that's a good point. And, you know, I could have lived without people standing up and applauding, by the way. But I think there was great attentiveness and great respect for the Pope and I think that's a good thing.

BASH: Why could you have lived without people applauding?

SANDERS: Because I didn't want to -

BASH: Even on things that you agreed with?

SANDERS: Yes, absolutely. I mean this - you know, of course I was one of those who stood up, but I think - it was fine, but mostly we're there to listen to what a very great man is telling us. BASH: Thank you, senator. Appreciate it.

SANDERS: Thanks. Thank you.

BASH: Senator Sanders. Obviously also a candidate for the Democratic nomination for president.

Ashleigh, back to you.

BANFIELD: I wonder if Senator Sanders is going to feel as though Congress will be affected by that appeal for less partisanship. I think time will tell. I know he can't hear me, unfortunately, but thank you, Dana Bash.

And as we take a look over to the right-hand side, now full screen, you are seeing the Pope's arrival now at the Nunciature where he will spend a couple of hours presumably packing up that bag that he brought with him, as he is now headed for the next leg on his American trip. And that will be New York City.

[12:30:03] He will be boarding a flight for JFK Airport at 5:00, but not before he does what he does best, yet again, stopping among the people, waving to the crowd.