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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Pope Francis is back to the Vatican diplomatic residence; Pope Francis Visits 911 Memorial; Donald Trump's Lashes Out At Media Again. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 25, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Erin, thanks very much. Good evening, everyone.
Just moments, ago Pope Francis left Madison square garden where he led mass for upwards of 20,000 people. He is heading back to the Vatican diplomatic residence. He travels Philadelphia tomorrow early in the morning where his weekend will continue a mass for what could be many as a million people. His visit ended here, though, it would already be memorable.
Today alone, we saw tens of thousands fill New York central park just to get their first glimpse of the pontiff as he got the first look in his life at central park. We also watched him do what he seems to love best, sharing moments of his time, as many as he can with children, parochial school kids up in east Harlem will helped him use their version of the magic wall. That's on top of addressing United Nations, embracing first responders, the world trade center site, his speech to Congress, the first ever by a Pope and so much more.
CNN's Alexandria Field joins us now outside Madison square garden.
Alexandra, explain where you are because the Pope started his mass, inside Madison square garden almost two hours ago. He just passed by where you are, is that correct?
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's right, Anderson. It was truly an extraordinary moment. You can see that there are still people who are out here. They are just watching the tail end of the motorcade as the rest of the officers and attending cars clear out of here.
But we've been out here for hours with people who were just pressed up against these gates right on Seventh Avenue right outside of Madison square guardian. These are people who did not have tickets to go to the mass, but they knew that the Pope would be coming through here. They knew they had the chance to so see, maybe just a glimpse of Pope Francis moving through in the fiat. And it as well-worth it to them, certainly. A moment that you remember for your entire life.
And so, they lined up here for hours, people who came from across the country, really around the world. And what was so striking to me, Anderson, was how quiet this crowd was, how patient they were, how ready they were to just catch this very brief moment and they took it in. And then what we saw both times when Pope Francis went into Madison square guard and again when he left was a sort of ecstatic kind of erupt of joy.
People just lethal, cheering, shouting, yelling, just truly delighted, an extraordinary experience to be part of and see the delight on people's faces. Obviously, for Catholics, this is such an incredible moment, such a significant and powerful moment to see the Holy Father perhaps in your very own hometown.
But for so many New Yorkers, just the experience being here in his presence equally extraordinary, Anderson. I know you experienced it yourself right out there at St. Patrick's.
COOPER: Alexandra, thank you very much.
I want to check in with Jason Carroll on the Apostolic (INAUDIBLE) on the Upper East Side.
Jason, right now, you say you're outside the (INAUDIBLE) residence. Has the Pope arrived yet?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not yet. But in anticipation of the Pope's arrival, we just heard from NYPD as they have cleared the area and they have put it under a security freeze. Some of those folks, Anderson, who came out wanting to get a glimpse of the Pope we're told, we are right here on 72nd street, the address of the residence, and they were told that they had to be a block in either direction. So they moved those people to 71st street in one direction, 73rd street in the other direction.
When I was out here one woman said what will happen once he gets inside? And the guy next to her said hopefully he'll be able to get some rest. And I think, you know, after this Pope is given so much to this city to so many people over, what, over the past few days and D.C. before that and Cuba before that and tomorrow when he does it all over again in Philadelphia, I think the hope is is that tonight he'll finally be able to come here and get some much-needed rest.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, Jason, he's got to be exhausted. I mean, he is 78 years old for a man half his age, the schedule he's been on has been grueling to say the least.
CARROLL: Yes. And think about the schedule tomorrow as well, right? I mean, that flight leaves at 8:45. That is especially equipped American airlines flight at 777 heading to Philadelphia. I think he will land at somewhere around 9:30 if everything goes on schedule. And then he's got the mass at 10:30. And then after that, after that mass, once again, he's going to be greeting thousands upon thousands of people who will be showing up at independence national historic park tomorrow in Philadelphia. So whatever he did here in New York and before that in Washington and
before that in Cuba, he'll be doing tomorrow all over again in Philadelphia. And so, it just boggles the mind when you think this man, 78 years old, you can see some activity of some of the emergency vehicles coming by perhaps, once again, in anticipation of the Pope's arrival.
COOPER: Jason, can you explain where you are in relation to the residence?
[20:05:05] CARROLL: We're about a block away. We are about a block south of where the residence is. I know you see all these bright lights. There is a very heavy police presence here. We're actually blocked off. The reporters are kept in a particular pen. We've been checked by security, by secret service to get into this particular area. So we, even the media are being kept a block south away of the residence. But in terms of people that do not live in this area, they are not allowed where we are now, Anderson.
Once again, anyone from the public wanting to come and see the Pope, once again, they are being told they have to stay one block up at 71st, another block in the other direction at 73rd. And once again, we're at 72nd on Manhattan upper side.
COOPER: And Jason, while I stay with you and stay with your picture there because we want to see if we can get a glimpse of the Pope as he arrives, I also want to bring in Father Thomas Rosica of the Vatican Sea press office, also senior Vatican analyst John Allen and CNN contributor Bruce Feiler from "walking the bible" and other best sellers on faith and religion.
Father, have you been to (INAUDIBLE) where the Pope --?
FATHER THOMAS ROSICA, HOLEY SEA PRESS OFFICE: Yes, been a guest there and know the house well.
COOPER: What can you tell us?
ROSICA: It's a four or five-story townhouse, if you will. Very simple house that's tucked into a number of buildings. There is no big lawn. It has been the residence of the apostolic church of the United Nations.
COOPER: It was donated to the church.
ROSICA: Donated to the church, I forgot what year. Simple house -- the whole office of the Holy Sea mission used to be there on the first floor until archbishop Martino moved it down to 39th street and the house at 72nd street then became the residence.
COOPER: And I understand there is a group of Spanish nuns sort of take care of it.
ROSICA: Spanish nuns. I think they are from Honduras or Guatemala, one of the two countries.
COOPER: And the Pope has asked for bananas and water in his room.
ROSICA: Very simple things, yes. Number one Pope John Paul II came to Canada. The orders were no spice, no ice.
COOPER: No spice, no ice.
ROSICA: The only instructions that I'm sure perhaps with Papa Francisco, bananas and ice water, something like that. Who knows? COOPER: You know, Father, when you look at - I mean, that mass in
Madison square Garden, just an extraordinary outpouring of love from this Pope to the people here. But also, I mean, the energy of the crowd cheering for him and interacting with him was incredible thing to witness.
ROSICA: It is the mass fitting for the big apple. Cardinal Dolan did a marvelous job in pulling that together. I think the lid blew off that Madison square garden this evening. It was absolutely wonderful. Everybody questions whether the church is dead in the United States. Just watch that again and you'll see that the church is alive. The church is young, the church is ethnic and the church sings.
COOPER: And you start to see, certainly part of the convoy there, the entourage, a lot of security vehicles starting to arrive from this. We can only assume that the Pope is either got to the diplomatic residence or is indeed, very, very close. It's a very long motorcade that the pontiff has. Police motorcycles, secret service vehicles, it's really larger almost than, John Allen, that we've seen even for president of the United States. I mean, it's an enormous convoy.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, and most of that, Anderson, is created by the American security presence around.
COOPER: You wouldn't see that at the Vatican.
ALLEN: No, you wouldn't see that in the Vatican. You do not see that in most of the countries the Pope travels to. But of course, the point is, you know, nobody wants to be the place for something bad happens to the Pope. So you can understand the pre-occupation with keeping him safe.
You know, to your point about the reaction with the mass tonight, my wife and I used the live two blocks away from where we are right now, we're in the Time Warner center. We live at 60th and Amsterdam. We used to go to the garden all the time. And you know, we would take in concerts, either go to rangers games, either go to the Knicks games.
I've heard a lot kind of loud walk us crowds in that space. I have never heard an ovation like Pope Francis drew tonight. I mean, you know, you would have thought that the Knicks won the NBA championship and the rangers won the Stanley Cup at the statement moment, you know, and throw in the Mets, why not? I mean, it was just absolutely amazing.
And I think, you know, in addition to what Father Tom told you about how it illustrates the church is alive. I think it puts the nail in the coffin to another myth of this beginning to gain ground before Francis got here which is that America was going to be a tough room for this Pope, you know. We were all talking about it, that, you know, his anti-capitalists rhetoric, his opposition in militarism, the fact he doesn't -- his English is not that good, that he's never been here before and we are imagining ways in which this trip may go off the rails. Well, I think after tonight we can say he's played pretty well here. COOPER: Feiler, I mean, I do think there is something about this
pontiff which is beyond language and it is beyond a particular religion. I mean, you talked about that a little bit last night sort of comparing him to a Nelson Mandela figure, John Allen, but I think, even for those who are not catholic, they sense the humbleness of this man. They sense the honesty and the heart of this man.
[20:10:11] BRUCE FEILER, RELIGIOUS SCHOLAR: We're in New York City. And this is a town that is used to big personalities as a tabloid culture, there are bright lights. But what is so fascinating to me about this human being is that he is a celebrity, he is one of the biggest celebrities in the world, but most celebrities should attract light, attract attention and they absorb it and they draw it to themselves. They need it. He is reflecting it back at every single moment and he's been doing it all along.
I have to say while watching him today, work his way around New York City, I was reminded of the two things that he did the night he became Pope. We were watching you that night when he became Pope and I was in Rome that summer, and I said what did you think of the Pope? What do you think of the Pope? Everyone says the same thing.
The two things that he did that night, first, he came out and he said good evening, you know. It wasn't a grand gesture. It was hi, how are you doing? It is a nice night. You are waiting for me. It's raining. And at the end, he bows down and says pray for me, OK? In other words, which he just echoed. That's exactly -- you saw it, as well.
He says at the end, he gets this big ovation, rather thank you, go forth, go forth and think of me. Go forth and pray for me and John Boehner today, you know, on his way out was talking about this moment where the Pope, he's standing privately with the Pope and Boehner tells this story to the press today and the Pope says to John Boehner, pray for me.
COOPER: And the moment, also, when he was at the school in the East Harlem, I mean, you could see in the Pope's face, the joy in his face, maybe in a different way than we had seen any other time this trip.
ALLEN: You know, we were, of course, covering that live and I was saying at the time that I'm convinced that's the most fun Pope Francis has had since he arrived in the United States. And that was the real man you saw in that moment.
I mean, listen, I mean, you know, and those of us who are journalist, for us the high point of the day in some ways is probably the speech to the U.N. because there was a lot of sort of meaty policy stuff where you can chew on in that speech.
And of course, it was very important to the Pope. There were a number of very important messages he wanted to get out. But I'm telling you, if you asked him, OK, what was the highlight of his day, I'm willing to guarantee that he would tell you it was that visit to the school in Harlem. You saw it in his body language. You saw it in his facial expressions.
You know, you saw it there at the end, those vintage touches, you know, that business about asking the kids to sing him a couple songs and then leading him the Our Father, that wasn't part of the formal tick tock. OK. Those were spontaneous gestures which speak to a Pope who loves ordinary people and especially the poor who loves young people, loves immigrants. I mean, that was Pope Francis in his comfort zone.
COOPER: And we're actually going to talk to three of the kids who were there a little bit later on. We're on for two hours tonight because there is so much to coverage. But, I'm really looking forward to talking to them. And one of the things I know two of the kids did, one of the kids asked the Pope to pray for her father who is not well. And also, another of the kids showed a photo of I believe his aunt to the Pope who had passed away last year and he blessed the photo. And we saw that also at ground zero today at the World Trade Center site at the 9/11 memorial where would people were showing photos of the loved ones who were killed on that day.
There is a lot to cover. We got to take a quick break in extended live coverage tonight.
Coming up next, we will talk more about the school visiting kids who will never forget it.
[20:17:33] COOPER: Welcome back. Just a few minutes ago Pope Francis arrived up town the Vatican's diplomatic residence after an incredibly full day. And there is two more full days to come. Some very big smiles from him when he visited the school in east Harlem before he arrived from Central Park. The executive director of catholic charities called it the most important stop at school with 295 students, mostly Latino and African American. The Pope met with about two dozen kids from four catholic elementary schools and was welcomed with song.
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COOPER: CNN's Rosa Flores was there at the school in Harlem today. She joins me now.
I mean, just what a visit, incredible. And you could see the joy in his face.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He really glows when he's around children and when he's around immigrants and refugees because some of the adults in the room were also immigrants and refugees. And you can just see that he is just so genuine with them and so kind and generous.
Now, I got to tell you a little bit of the back story there. Those children had arts and crafts that they were sharing with the Pope, but two kids actually were showing him how to use a touch screen, Anderson, and I talked to the kids. And the Pope has been quoted before saying that the internet is a gift of God, so these children said we taught the Pope how to use a touch screen with the gifts of God. So he had flowers and they would use their finger to, you know, move the flower within the screen. And so, I said OK, can you got to be honest with me, was the Pope good at this? And they said no but we helped him. We helped him.
COOPER: And he also gave some homework, right?
[20:20:05] FLORES: He did. You know, he spoke off the cuff for a little bit. He's an immigrant and he has talked about being an immigrant child and how difficult it might be for children who are -- but I have a little homework for you. Pass to other people and he is very humble about it saying pray for me so that I can continue doing the work I'm doing.
COOPER: One of the things that John Allen was saying, it was that, it is really the happiest he believes he's seen the pontiff on this entire trip so far.
FLORES: You can tell from his body language. I mean, I've seen it in multiple countries as we've been following his visits in South America and Cuba and then here. When he's around politicians, he's a lot more stiff, almost serious. But when he's around children and when he's around the poor for example (INAUDIBLE) and Paraguay, you can just see how he's glowing. And one of the priest told me. He say, he always looks at the priests shoes because if they are nice and shiny, they have not been in the neighborhoods. They have not been helping people, yes.
COOPER: Which is certainly where he wants his pastors to be. And we are going to talk to three of the kids who are there at the school today. I'm looking forward to that.
Rosa, thank you very much for that great day.
Those students and so many others here in New York, they had a chance to meet Pope Francis including this boy at Madison square garden whose father was moved to tears when the pontiff stopped to give him a blessing. That encounter brings to mind another one from nearly 40 years ago. Take a look at those images. In 1979 a little girl also at Madison square garden got up close to then John Paul, II. Tonight that girl is now 42 years old and attended Pope Francis' mass a short time ago in the same location. Imagine that.
CNN's Jean Casarez spoke with her and her family about that monumental day decades ago.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The little girl in red, in 1979, she captured the heart of the country and Pope John Paul II during his visit to New York City's Madison Square Garden for the youth rally. And from that moment on, the life of the 6-year-old Geralyn Smith was changed forever.
It was a difficult time for the family. The children's father, a member of the elite division of the NYPD that guarded the likes of heads of state and New York's cardinal, had suddenly died the previous year.
NORA SMITH, MOTHER: It was the night before I got a call from the member of the police department that they secured four tickets.
[14:40:00] CASAREZ: That day Geralyn just happened to wear red and white, the colors of Poland, the Pope's native country. Geralyn's sister, 16 at that time, remembers the energy when they got to Madison Square Garden.
NOREEN CUMMINGS, SISTER: Electrifying, inspirational. Everything about it, they had to try and calm, you know, the crowd down so he could even speak. That's how people were chanting. John Paul, John Paul, John Paul.
CASAREZ: The family had had seats close to the front. All of a sudden a man came up to Geralyn's mother.
SMITH: He asked if she'd go down to the railing with him. And I was about to say I'm sorry when she had his hand. And she went off.
CASAREZ: Now the little girl was very close to Pope John Paul who was entering the garden in his pope mobile.
GERALYN SMITH, MET POPE JOHN PAUL II: I did see him wave. I had no idea it was towards me. The guard that asked me to come down and stand with him was lifting me over the railing. He lifted me on top of the Pope mobile and had ahold of my lower legs and was kind of rocking to the music with him. There was a light around him. I couldn't take my eyes off of him. His smile was amazing and his eyes were the most beautiful thing I had ever seen.
CASAREZ: Geralyn was taken back to her family as the mass began.
N. SMITH: She was lie mesmerized. And then when the rally was over, a number of people came over. They just wanted to touch her.
CASAREZ: Geralyn's interaction with the Pope strengthened the family whose faith had been shaken after their father's death.
G. SMITH: I think we all believed he was there that day and then in some way he was always going to be with us. This moment kind of solidified that for us. And it helped us to bond as a family even without him. And for me personally, this gave me some confidence back that I'm not sure I would have had if not for this moment.
CASAREZ: Geralyn received a rosary from the Vatican after that day as well as letters from people around the world. Seventeen years later in 1995, Pope John Paul II came back to New York City. The little girl in red now all grown up saw him again.
G. SMITH: I guess I learn to appreciate it, you know more. It really did affect my life.
[20:25:00] CASAREZ: And in the decades that followed, people continue to remember the little girl in red.
Jean Casarez, CNN New York.
COOPER: Incredible encounter that changed her life.
Coming up, a real symbol of what this Pope stands for, service this morning at the 9/11 memorial totally inclusive. The Pope sharing the moment with leaders of other faiths, embracing them. I will speak for some religious leaders who were there coming up next.
We're live for two hours overlooking a beautiful from the circle central park that just seen a day like no other.
[20:29:31] COOPER: Welcome back.
Pope Francis is back at the Vatican residence and hopefully getting good rest. He certainly going to need it for tomorrow. He is going to be up early traveling to Philadelphia where this weekend he'll be celebrating mass for possibly as many as a million people. Now, of the striking moments so far, all the moving images we've seen, there is one that we really hope will resonate the deepest, the side of Pope Francis, world trade center site this morning standing with representatives of all the world's major religions hearing their prayers of peace and goodwill and offering prayers of his own.
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COOPER: And joining us, two individuals who took part in that moment, Satpal Singh, a founding trustee of the Sikh Counsel for Interfaith Relations, he currently teaches at the state university of New York in Buffalo. Also Imam Khalid Latif, he's executive director and chaplain for the Islamic Center at New York University and back with us as well is Father Thomas Rosica. Thank you all for being with us. Imam, what was it like for you to be sitting right next to the pontiff all during the meeting?
IMAM KHALID LATIF, PARTICIPATED IN MULTIFAITH CEREMONY AT 9/11 MEMORIAL: You know, it was pretty intense. I think the uniqueness of this pope is that his impact is felt by many outside of even the Catholic community. And for myself as a Muslim, aside from the remarkable remarks that he's had in the last day or so highlighting and indicating with compassion just what he felt for those who passed away in Mecca, overall is just he's very relatable and to be able to sit with somebody like that who is able to touch so many hearts and really feel his presence without any qualifications and condition is just amazing experience.
COOPER: Satpal, for you how was it?
SATPAL SINGH, SIKH COUNCIL FOR INTERFAITH RELATIONS: It was incredible. Particularly as a Sikh, a follower of Sikhism, but - followed with more than 5 million people in the world, it resonates with me, his message of love and compassion for everybody of mankind irrespective of what your faith is, and I think standing at that place, 9/11, which has been an icon of hate and violence, a message of love and compassion was really an incredible thing to be standing by.
COOPER: You have an extraordinary history because you were actually attacked in India during a terrible time when thousands of Sikhs were actually killed in violence. Many people might have turned away from their faith or turned away from other faiths and if anything, that event, I understand, sort of propelled you to understand other religions and learn about other religions.
SINGH: Yeah, I think it did prepare me to understand other religions and give me a realization that it's only love and compassion that can conquer over hate and violence. Nothing else can. You can't conquer hate and violence by hate and violence, it's love and compassion. And that's why this pope's message resonates with me because that's what all religions stand for and that's what today's service said to me that if we stand together, we can really make a headway in this direction.
COOPER: Father, to have the pope reaching out in such an important place in the hearts of not only many Americans, but many people around the world who lost loved ones there because truly was an international event, people from all around the world were killed there, to see him sitting on that stage with leaders from other faiths, what did it mean to you?
FATHER THOMAS ROSICA, CSB, HOLY SEE PRESS OFFICE: Anderson, I've been to interfaith and inter-religious services. This was one of the most moving moments out of that experience in interfaith setting. To have our leader, the pope, bishop of Rome, world leader presiding at this prayer service each person there praying to the God of their understanding, but asking for peace. It's a place of horror that place and Pope Francis reminded us that it is also a place of hope.
I think part of the beauty of that service, it's the very gentleness of his voice, the connection that he had with each of you and the other people sitting in the platform and what really got me and I can say brought me to tears and many people to tears, when the young people came out at the end and started singing that song in a place where the distortion of religion, a misunderstanding of religion, brought down horror, we saw together religious people, people seeking God coming together and praying for peace and the flowing water, the pope referred to that in the homily, the water, the gentleness of that water and the ability to turn that place into a place of hope and a pledge to be sure that that never happens again. It was a very, very moving experience.
COOPER: I'm just amazed, Imam, at the stamina of this man. He's 78 years old and I keep bringing that up. But I've been following now for a couple of days. I'm exhausted and I don't know how he has the energy to do all of this because he's at the epicenter of all of this. He's absorbing all these people's hopes and dreams and attention and love. Does that surprise you?
IMAM KHALID LATIF, PARTCIPATED IN MULTIFAITH CEREMONY AT 9/11 MEMORIAL: I mean, it's remarkable. He feeds off of, I think, a very unique source of strength which is selflessness and to sit in his presence to really feel that, and I hope that people understand the importance of the moment and not let the moment itself be an ends, but a means to a bigger ends where they feed off of just his presence and the selflessness that he has emanating.
KHALID LATIF: And they start to create similar moments in their day to day life where they open up their homes to diverse gatherings, they break out of their own comfort zone and start to talk to people who they could fully get away with never talking to. They break away from the prevailing antagonistic narratives that unfortunately really have permeated our societies and they start ...
COOPER: And particularly these days, and there is so much division, there is so much polarization, there is so much, you know, suspicion and mistrust of people of other faiths.
KHALID LATIF: People of other faiths and I think people of just a different lifestyle. You know, we are at a place where it's very easy to segment based off race, ethnicity, social class, religion, sexual orientation, gender, you name it. Any reason we could look to say why we would be separate from each other. You know, we jump on that and I think what he shows us is that, you know, he can be himself uniquely and I can be myself uniquely, but we can celebrate our diversity and find shared commonality in our values. There is a lot of us to work towards something that's much bigger than just who we are as individuals.
COOPER: And Father Rosica, I mean I think that's something that this pope has shown time and time again even if not somebody he would agree with, even if it's somebody who, I mean, you know, I saw Mo Rocca on the stage in Madison Square Garden. Mo Rocca, he's a friend of mine and he's openly gay and yet he was included in on this, in this incredible event in the most public of ways.
FATHER THOMAS ROSICA, CSB HOLY SEE PRESS OFFICE: Pope Francis has one goal to seek the great common human heart of every human being. There are differences. There are distinctions. There are choices that people make, but Francis takes us above that. His famous question that he asked who am I to judge which was very upsetting for some people, but in the proper context, he said who am I to judge a person who was genuinely seeking God? Not applies, not only it's a question of sexual orientation, but any person who is seeking God through a different pass. If that person is honestly and justly seeking God, and that person is a person of peace and Pope Francis is a Christian, he's a Catholic, he loves Jesus Christ, but he also knows that God has many, many ways of bringing people to himself and he's telling us be careful of extremism. Be careful of overly identifying yourself as if no one else exists.
And it's very fitting that this happens because today, because in a couple of months we're going to celebrate in the Catholic Church the 50th anniversary of Nostra Aetate, which was the famous document that the second Vatican Council of recognizing other religions, particularly Islam and Judaism and other religions where seeds of goodness and truth are found. And we must work together and Francis is showing us how to do that with much simplicity and much conviction.
COOPER: And much power. Father Rosica, thank you so much. Imam, thank you so much. Really a pleasure to have you-all here.
Coming up, protecting the pope, we'll take a closer look at this massive security operation that has been in place for the pontiff's visit. We'll be right back.
COOPER: As we mentioned tonight, Pope Francis heads to Philadelphia early tomorrow. Our Vatican correspondent Delia Gallagher is already there. She joins me now with just a preview of this last leg of the pope's visit. So, in terms of this schedule in Philadelphia, what events does he have planned there tomorrow?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, Philadelphia is waiting expectantly this big visit. This is the reason that he's coming to the United States. He arrives here tomorrow at 9:30 in the morning. You can see the stage behind me, which is set for tomorrow's evening prayer for the festival of families, the World Meeting of Families, the pope will drive. He will go first to the basilica, of course, to celebrate mass with his bishops and priests of the Philadelphia area. Then he gets in the pope mobile, goes down Independence Mall, stops there where the Liberty Bell, where the Declaration of Independence was signed, and there the pope will give a talk on religious freedom to immigrants, to the Hispanic community. We know that's one of the major themes of this entire trip for Pope Francis and, of course, then he will continue on tomorrow night for the big festival of families. He'll close his big U.S. trip with Sunday afternoon's mass, again, behind me here on the stage that they have been preparing all day, the excitement is really building here in Philadelphia. We saw he had a great send off in New York, but in a certain sense, the party has yet to begin here in Philadelphia. Anderson.
COOPER: And it's true, I mean over a million people may be expected to attend this outdoor mass in the world meeting of families on Sunday.
GALLAGHER: Upwards of 1 million. They say the parkway can hold up to 2 million. So, we'll see how many can actually get here, Anderson, because the security is very, very tight. You know, Mayor Nader said before the event even started, people should be prepared to walk miles because there is no transportation once you get to this downtown area. I can tell you, it is all - up. The shops are open. I saw plenty of families milling about, so people have already walked miles, Anderson, but the security is very, very tight here, perhaps even tighter than what we saw in New York just because of the distances and because he's here for two full days and a lot of people expected. Anderson?
COOPER: That's saying a lot. Delia Gallagher, thanks.
More now on that security, it's been with him all the way on the visit. We're joined now by two experts, Andreas Vidmer, former Swiss Guard for Pope John Paul II and former Secret Service agent and former NYPD officer Dan Bongino. Andreas, it's good to have you on the program again. You know, when you and I talked in Washington the other night, you talked about the Vatican security perspective, which is trying to walk that line between protecting, the pontiff, obviously, but also allowing him to continue his ministry.
What do you make of the pope security here in New York? Because last night Jim Sciutto reported there were rumblings from the papal - that perhaps it was too excessive.
ANDREAS WIDMER, FORMER SWISS GUARD FOR POPE JOHN PAUL II: You're right, Anderson. The security certainly is very, very strong here, but you have to understand also that the security in the country when the pope visits is up to the local security authorities and so I sort of understand that America is saying look, nothing is going to happen on our territory to one of the most beloved public figures right now. And so I understand, I do think it's very strong and if you are looking around, he's seeing much fewer, he's kissing fewer babies, he's talking to fewer people than what he would in other visits, and especially in the Vatican but I also understand why that is, and on top of that, I think we should point out that he has sciatica. And it might be also that that is a reason why they are holding back a bit.
COOPER: Dan, I mean, of course, the - side of that is we have seen in some countries that he's visited, I think it was back in Brazil if my memory serve me correctly, where people were able to kind of rush his vehicles and it became almost kind of a scary situation or a potentially scary situation. What do you make of the robust security here?
DAN BONGINO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: I think it's perfectly appropriate, Anderson. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is someone in these crowds that definitively wants to either hurt or God forbid kill the pope. There is no doubt in my mind. The only thing stopping that person, Anderson, is the security. Now, I know that he likes to mix and mingle a little bit, but we're used to that with the president. We are used to giving the appearance of an accessible president. We can do it with the pope, as well. But I think this security is appropriate.
COOPER: Andres, for this pontiff, I mean, I hate to talk about him in terms of the security, but in the eyes of many, he's not just a religious figure, there is -- he could be seen as a political figure as well, and so for somebody who wants to god forbid make their name known around the world, who wants to make some sort of a statement, I mean, he clearly is what they would consider a high-valued target.
WIDMER: Yes, but that is something that happens - that is the reality in the Vatican and any other country that he visits and that quite frankly is something that comes along with being the pope but I wouldn't want to do too much of a changing of the pope's behavior based on a very few minority of people, very few people really who want to distract from that. COOPER: Yeah, Dan, when you consider just how many, I mean, to your
point of the potential security risk, to even see him in that pope mobile which is open on the sides, that's got to be worrying from a security standpoint.
BONGINO: Oh, it's terrifying. I mean, Anderson, this is the Secret Service's Super Bowl right now. There is no question about it. And think about this as a ring system, a security ring system. You have an outer ring, you have a middle ring and you have an inner ring. That inner ring is usually butchers by an armored vehicle or in the case of the pope, what we had in the past, it was the pope mobile. You don't have that now. What you have is an inner ring composed strictly of Vatican security force and the Secret Service. If God forbid a weapon were to get in there, a firearm and a round gets let loose, the only thing between that bullet and the pope are these security agents and that has got to be pretty terrifying for agents not used to working that way. They are used to armored cars.
COOPER: Yeah, and certainly that inner ring that we've seen around the pope is largely Vatican security, which obviously as Andres has pointed out have a long history of how to protect this man. Andres, I appreciate you being with us, Dan Bongino as well.
There is breaking news to tell you about in the world of politics. Donald Trump fired up tonight in Oklahoma City campaigning at the state fair in full attack mode. We'll get the latest from our reporter on the ground.
COOPER: More breaking news tonight, Donald Trump has wrapped up a campaign event in Oklahoma City. He finished speaking at the state fair and he was definitely in a feisty mode. CNN's M.J. Lee there, joins us now with the latest. So, I understand, he continued to talk about crowd size, which is an obvious reference to an under attended event he had in South Carolina earlier this week, he had two events that day, one was very well-attended, an event that he later incorrectly accused CNN, though, of misreporting the number of attendees at. What did he say tonight?
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right, Anderson. Trump seems to be very sensitive about the crowd size and how the media reports on that. We saw him get very worked up over the last week when various media outlets including CNN reported that there seemed to be some empty seats at a campaign event in South Carolina earlier in the week. Now, tonight I see he talked to a very rowdy crowd here in the Oklahoma state fair. He referred to the press as terrible people and talked about this issue again. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP: They will say tomorrow Mr. Trump drew a nice crowd of six or 700 people. Yes, like it got to be - how many people do we have here? 20, 18? Something. But they will say we had 1,000 people. I mean they really do distort and they are terrible people, not all of them, but many of them and I have to say this, I have to say this, it's sort of doesn't matter because the one thing I found, look at that. Look where this crowd goes to. Cameras, can you do us a favor and instead of just, you know, they are just panning on me and they won't say -- do me a favor. Take the cameras off me and pan the crowd. Okay?
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Go ahead, pan the crowd. Pan it. And be honest. Be honest. Go ahead, pan it. You're not panning it. They don't want to pan it. They don't want to pan it. Turn those cameras, no, no, turn them all the way back. No, no, turn them all the way back there. Come on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: You can see, Anderson, Trump clearly still bothered by this two days later.
LEE: And we can report tonight that there was a sizable crowd, both in front of and behind the press risers.
COOPER: Did he talk about any specific policies that he hasn't talked about previously? Because he hasn't obviously given a lot of specifics about what he would do. Did he mostly focus on this kind of stuff?
LEE: It was a pretty boiler plate speech that we were struck by the fact that he seemed incredibly energized. I think, after the CNN debate there has been some observations that he seems to be a little lacking in energy, not really his typical self, but he seems to really be feeding off of the energy in the crowd tonight, really going after the press, going after his rivals.
COOPER: All right. M.J. Lee, appreciate it. Thanks. More politics and more on Pope Francis. In the next hour we're live to the 10:00 hour tonight. We'll show you some of the remarkable moments of the pontiff day here in New York, a day many in this city and across the country will certainly never forget.