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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT

South Carolina: Nine Dams Have Failed, More Expected; Shooter Spared "Lucky One" To Give Police His Message; Trump's Leads Shrink in Iowa and New Hampshire; Trump's Leads Shrink in Iowa and New Hampshire; Search On For 28 Americans After Ship Sinks; American Airlines Pilot Dies Mid-Flight. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired October 5, 2015 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[19:00:09] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, nine dams fail across South Carolina in the face of a 1,000-year flood. At this hour, officials warning the disaster could get much worse.

Plus, new details about the Oregon shooter tonight. He handed one student his final writings and made him sit and watch the carnage. Our exclusive interview ahead tonight.

And an American airlines pilot dies mid-flight, more than 150 people on board. Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. Nine dams have failed in South Carolina. More expected to fail now as a 1,000-year flood devastates the state. Nine people are dead and thousands trying to escape the floodwaters. At this moment, a curfew is beginning for Columbia, South Carolina, the state capital hardest hit, nearly 20 inches of rain falling in just one day there. Thirteen hundred National Guard troops and first responders have been rescuing hundreds at this hour nearly 500 interstate highways and roads are closed in the state. Firefighters came to the aid of this Columbia family that were trapped in their apartment. The roads around them impassable. Floodwaters have been trampling the cars and trucks nearby.

Martin Savidge begins our coverage tonight. He is at the scene at the very worst flooding. And Martin, you're very close to where one major dam breach.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. In fact, that's why we are not showing you some of the massive in this area because just before we set up, emergency crews came running up and saying that there had been a breach in this dam, we had to flee. And now there's kind of this nervous stand-off waiting for a wall of water. So, it's not only high water, it's high anxiety in South Carolina. Desperate days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): A man in Columbia clings to a tree as floodwaters rivet his waist and threaten to wash him away. In South Carolina, the rain may be easing but not the danger. In many areas, the water continues to rise and so does the death toll. Many of those who have been killed died trying to cross through rushing water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yep, they just made a mistake.

SAVIDGE: This van nearly met the same fate when raising waters threaten to carry him and his truck away. It would become one of many dramatic rescues. Just outside Charleston, a mother and her 15-month- old-baby had to be rescued by a coast guard helicopter after floodwater surrounded their home. Officials say there have been so many rescues like these, they've lost count. South Carolina's governor is warning people not to let down their guard as waters recede.

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: This is not over. Just because the rain stops does not mean that we are out of the woods. We very much still have a vulnerable situation that's out there. I'm still going to ask citizens to please stay inside.

SAVIDGE: The greatest danger is South of Columbia whereas much as two feet of rain has fallen since Friday. Several area dams are overflowing or giving way.

CHIEF WYATT COLEMAN, WEST COLUMBIA FIRE DEPARTMENT: We have probably have about ten dams that broke in Richland (ph) County yesterday.

SAVIDGE: Late this afternoon, a CNN crew and a National Guard helicopter flew above Overcreek Dam shortly after it breached. Warnings of the breach sent reporters and emergency crews rushing to get out of the water's potential path. Meanwhile, some 1300 National Guard troops have been called in to help hundreds of troopers and state workers. Residents are being asked to stay off the roads to allow emergency crews through but it's still not easy. More than 500 roads have been closed due to high water or damage, including 100 bridges in and around the state capital. In much areas, it's too early to begin assessing the damage but many residents already know the cost is high.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I've got on my body is what we have. Pretty much everybody on that hill has lost everything this morning, our vehicles, our clothes, our everything. But the best thing is that we still have our lives. We still have our lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: People are coping, Erin, with not just with what the water has done but now trying to come to grips with the fear of what it may yet still do. There are many other dams in danger in South Carolina tonight -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Martin, thank you very much. As we talked about thousands homeless waiting for the waters to start to recede. As we said, though, it's going to get much worse before it starts to gets better.

Boris Sanchez is OUTFRONT in Manning, South Carolina. And Boris, how bad is it where you are? BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Erin, we do have some good

news to report tonight. Two things. First, earlier in the day, Manning was entirely blacked out. One of the dozens of cities here in South Carolina that did not have access to power. In just the past two hours, we've seen traffic lights come on and several businesses turn on their lights here. So, this is a very good sign. The other good sign is water is starting to recede. It's moved about ten feet back. And the few hours that we've been here still very slow recession of water.

[19:05:11] I should tell you, we're on highway 301, this is the highway that stretches all the down to Florida. It's a major highway and if you look behind me, the water stretches as far as you can see, at least a mile of flooding here on Highway 301. And there's debris everywhere. If you can make out that kind of wooden structure, that's almost in the center of the street. It's obviously shifted because of the floodwater and there's plenty of debris like that that is moved around. We also see several cars that are submerged. Businesses have been flooded, a gas station out far from here, convenience store as well as a church to my left.

And this restaurant also here to my left, they are actually opened and running. They have been helping to feed National Guard servicemen that have come into this town to try to offer relief to people. Obviously, it will still take a long time for this water to totally get back. There's a river far back there that is kind of over gone over its shore and goes underneath Highway 301. So, hopefully in the coming days perhaps, into the coming week this water will finally recede. But until then, things will not look the same here in Manning.

BURNETT: All right. Boris, thank you very much. Just given the sense of the scale of what we're seeing in South Carolina, they are talking of this other 1,000-year flood.

OUTFRONT now, the mayor of Columbia, South Carolina Stephen Benjamin. Mayor Benjamin, obviously, we are hearing about either your city getting 20 inches of rain in just one day. I mean, these numbers are stunning. One of the dams that the reporter was talking about is in a very heavily populated area. The Overcreek dam it breached. How dangerous is the situation?

MAYOR STEPHEN BENJAMIN, COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA (on the phone): It's incredibly dangerous, Erin. It's downright perilous which is the reason why we put the extraordinary curfew. State law gives me the authority to establish a curfew. It is requiring people to stay off the roads from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. where we have re-established the curfew tonight from 7:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. tomorrow. Only emergency workers, health care workers and those repairing utility lines can be on the streets of Columbia. We're in tough times right now. We're in tough times. Initial thoughts were we might have a 100-year event and then some of the more expected meteorologists here thought it would be a two or 300-year event.

A thousand year event is something, I'm not sure anyone could fully prepare for this. What we have done, however, is we've seen an unprecedented amount of cooperation at the local level, the state level and federal authorities. We've seen leadership on both sides of the aisle from our governor, our Congress people, Tim Scott and Lindsey Graham and everyone is coming together to make sure that we have the resources to do our number one job. Our number one job here is to preserve human life. Once you get past that, everything else is secondary. We're going to reserve property, we're going to work to rebuild our infrastructure but we've got to make sure we keep our people safe. And everyone is, working towards that end right now.

BURNETT: And Mayor Benjamin, you talk about the extraordinary measures of this curfew. You know, we understand but at least nine dams have failed. That there could be more, that the waters in many places, this could get worse before it starts to get better. How concerned are you that other dams could fail? I mean, you're talking about the capital here at the state?

BENJAMIN: We are significantly concerned that that could happen and that, I'm not sure if I would say it's likely but -- because I don't want to speak it into existence, as some people here in the South might say. But it's very real that there are at least two other dams that could be threatened. We've taken some measures as a community to even consider voluntary evacuations of those areas right now. Just about half an hour, I took an aerial tour, of the damage and devastation and it's significant. It is significant. We see homes submerge, we see infrastructures damaged. It's the real deal. And you know, I encouraged with the folks and of course if the rain has stopped but the floods have not yet subsided.

We're still going to see more of the rainfall that landed in the northern part of the state. From downhill to the midlands. There's more water coming and we just need to really encouraged folks to work together, as we have been, to continue to take care of our neighbors, provide shelter and food and everything else but we've got to help to -- this road and help each other. It's going to be a long haul. It's going to be a long haul. It's going to get worse before it gets better. But eventually, it will get better.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Mayor Benjamin, thank you very much. We are wishing you and the people of South Carolina. The best as you struggle through this.

I want to go now to our meteorologist Tom Sater OUTFRONT. And Tom, you just heard the mayor say, this going to get worse before it gets better. How much worse?

TOM SATER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's a great question. Erin, anytime you have historic rainfall, historic flooding, it always leads to historic river flooding. You can see the bright colors. Where we had in purple the 10 to 20, even 26 inches now topping the charts, when you look at the rivers and, get this, too, near Columbia, the Gill Creek, early on the onset of this flooding, it reached historical levels to the point that the water level was so high in some smaller tributaries, it was washing away the river gauges. That just doesn't happen. And there's not many other gauges that hydrologists are going to be able to work with to try to forecast where the crest will be. All the smaller tributaries and as he mentioned, rain from the north coming from above the border and North Carolina is going to slowly get into the larger tributaries.

[19:10:42] Take a look at this. Everything across the state runs in the larger river from the northwest across Columbia, across the central areas to the low country and out into the ocean. Forecasting this is really going to be hard now when you have additional levees that are breached, dams as well. Over 30, in some cases, the last couple of days. But with the larger tributaries, Erin, prom and met, catastrophic problems could occur. If we have major breaches on dams such as on the Columbia area, east over where it comes together in the town of across, Myrtle Beach had rainfall rates last night at four inches an hour. They have come together there. Georgetown was submerged.

They are looking at major contributories moving in that area in Charleston. So, these areas that were submerged in the days ahead, will have the highest crest slowly make its way across the state being inundated once again. Any breach fire levee or a dam is going to cause a drop in the water as it flows into the countryside or other communities. That means more evacuations will take place and possibly more water rescues. One more quick nap for you in red are all of the road closures, Erin. And blue are all of the bridge closures. Certainly still a good section of I-95. When the water recedes weeks from now, the infrastructure problem could be catastrophic to a point that for millions in South Carolina their daily routine may change as construction will then take place to kind of fix the roadways, the sinkholes and the washed-out bridges.

BURNETT: On the scale, this is a 1,000-year event.

SATER: Yes.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Tom.

And next, when the Oregon shooter told one student to stand up, the young man was sure he would die. Our exclusive interview with that student's mother, his terrifying story is next.

Plus, Donald Trump is still on top of polling in the polls. That as words comes W maybe heading to the rescue of his brother Jeb.

And 28 Americans feared lost at sea. They sailed into the teeth of a hurricane.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:48] BURNETT: Breaking news, President Obama heading to Roseburg, Oregon, on Friday, that is the site of the deadly college massacre. A White House official says, the President will meet privately with the shooting victims' families, this of course as the President said, he will politicize gun control.

Also tonight, chilling new details about the gunman who slaughtered nine people. Survivors saying he seemed happy throughout the rampage. He asked victims about their religion even though their answers actually didn't seem to matter. He shot all of them anyway. But the gunman did choose one person to survive. A teenage boy that he selected, made him sit on the side of the room and called him, quote, "the lucky one." That's who he chose to deliver his writings to police.

Dan Simon is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUMMER SMITH, MOTHER OF "THE LUCKY ONE": He's different. He'll never feel the same. He'll never feel complete security again.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You could see it in his eyes, in his body language, that this young man has seen something truly horrific. He's at church Sunday morning.

SMITH: He doesn't know how to deal with it right now. I don't even think he can register what happened yet. It's just too much.

SIMON: He is 18-year-old Matthew. His mom asked that we not use his last name, which is different than hers. He's not ready to speak about it himself but how he is still alive is a question that may haunt him forever.

(on camera): There were people being shot around him.

SMITH: Yes.

SIMON: And then at a certain point, the shooter singles out him.

SMITH: Yes.

SIMON: Is that correct?

SMITH: Yes.

SIMON: What did the shooter do?

SMITH: The shooter asked him to give the police something and that if he did, he would live. And that when the shooter gave him what he was told to give the police, he was told to sit in the back of the room facing the room and to watch what was going on.

SIMON (voice-over): In the classroom, three people, including his teacher, Lawrence Levine, had just been shot. The shooter had asked victims whether they were Christian, firing regardless of the answer. Then he pauses and turns to Matthew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He doesn't know what's coming next and all of a sudden he says, you --

SMITH: You with the glasses -- I believe he said, you with the glasses, stand up.

SIMON (on camera): And he just stood up.

SMITH: He stood up and he said at that time he felt that was it. SIMON (voice-over): For whatever reason, Matthew has been called the

lucky one and wants him to deliver an envelope to police. Inside, a computer flash drive which law enforcement sources say contains the shooter's writings.

SMITH: Matthew said that he froze. He didn't make a single move. He was afraid to look away. That if he made anything -- did anything to make the shooter notice him, that he would be shot. So he just sat there.

SIMON (on camera): He's sitting there watching the shooter execute people?

SMITH: Yes.

SIMON (voice-over): The man sitting next to her is Pastor Randy Scroggins, here to provide comfort. His daughter Lacy also survived the shooting. He delivers an emotional heart pounding sermon.

PASTOR RANDY SCROGGINS, DAUGHTER SURVIVED SHOOTING: We have showed up to say, violence will not have the last word in Roseburg. God will have the last word!

SIMON: But even in this house of worship, it appears there's nothing at this moment that could ease Matthew's pain. He certainly doesn't feel like the lucky one.

SMITH: No words for it. He lived and for that he feels guilty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: Well, Erin, that was one of the most heart-wrenching interviews I have ever been a part of. There are so many emotional stories here in Roseburg. And that one carries an enormous emotional burden. I can tell you that Matthew will not be returning to college here. He's going to take time off this semester. His mother says, he's known for his humor, his smile and it will take a while for that part of himself to come back -- Erin.

BURNETT: Simon, thank you very much. A powerful interview.

And I want to bring now in former FBI profiler James Fitzgerald and criminologist Casey Jordan. James, you know, you just heard Dan's powerful report. The shooter could have left this flash drive, right, all of these writings for police. He could have done it any way he wanted to do it. But he chose to do it this way, choosing one person, seemingly randomly, the one with the glasses, the one lucky person as he called them. Why do you think he did that?

JAMES FITZGERALD, FORMER FBI PROFILER: You know, Erin, in many cases these types of killers, be them bombers, be them up close shooters whatever, they choose representational targets. They aren't necessarily people that have affected them directly in life, or they've had one on one interactions with. Although that maybe the case here, to some degree. But they also may choose a representational person's life to spare and this person, Matthew, perhaps looked like someone from the past, perhaps they had a casual glance to each other walking down a hallway a few days before, maybe sometime in the past and for that reason this was the one person that perhaps the shooter related to and said, you know what, you're going to be the one I spare. I cannot only take life but I can allow life to live and you're going to be the one. What better power trip than someone in that particular situation?

[19:20:58] BURNETT: It's like playing God. I mean, Casey, you just heard Matthew's mother say that the shooter locked eyes with him, locked eyes with Matthew. What does that say to you?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, I think he's demanding complicity. He's making sure that this guy understands that if he gives him this envelope, he will live. But he's not lucky. He's going to suffer from trauma and survivor's guilt -- it's a long road ahead for him to recover. Because everyone is going to say, well, you're the one, you're the messenger. Why did he pick you? That's a huge burden for an 18-year-old young man to carry. So, I don't consider him lucky at all. And I do think -- he probably picked him randomly but there was something about Matthew that he knew, that he would be complicit and not try to, you know, give him gang rush him, not try to fight back but do exactly what he told him to do.

BURNETT: Right. Now, James. The shooter asked victims whether they were Christians. I mean, this is another thing Dan was talking about. Survivors say though, that it didn't matter what he answered, he fired anyway. So why did he even ask?

FITZGERALD: Yes. Religiosity really had no bearing on anything here. It was about command, control, conquest and kill. And that was his purpose this particular day. I know some were allegedly shot in the legs and I guess only injured by this person but this is all about a power trip, this all about his 15-minutes of fame --

BURNETT: Yes.

FITZGERALD: -- which, of course, had took him 15 rounds of ammo, at the very minimum, to accomplish his point. The rules have changed and this is how this people go about these things. These people who live in the echo chambers of their own mind and have the only external stimuli is violent movies, video games, whatever, websites and then they get access to weapons and something like this is what happens.

BURNETT: So, Casey, one survivor was saying that the gunman shot a woman in the wheelchair. He actually told her to get out of the wheelchair and then told her to get back in. She says, she was struggling to get back in the wheelchair, he shot her that he seemed happy while he did that. Another survivor in an interview with ABC today, said he even laughed.

JORDAN: Yes. No mercy, no compassion. You have to understand that by the time this young man decompensated to the point where he was ready to go to --

BURNETT: Where he's able to do this.

JORDAN: Where he's able to do it. He's in a zone. Autopilot, numb, these are too soft of words that when he gets there --

BURNETT: There's going to be no humility left, right?

JORDAN: No humanity left. And he's trying to make a point. Society did this to us, everyone has to die. I'm going to die, too. And I'm just going to leave you with this final message on my way out of town, that everything is unfair, everything is bad and wrong. I'm sure that whatever is in that flash drive, whatever his writings were will give us a clue.

BURNETT: And James, he also told victims that he wanted to make it quick and easy. How does that fit with what Casey is saying?

FITZGERALD: Well, it fits also in that he wants to make sure that the situation itself doesn't get out of control and they have a chance of taking a shot back at him. I mean, in some physical sort of way. But he wants someone to see pain, he wants to see suffering. This is what he has perceived took place in his own life over the years and that was his turn to dish some of this back out in the most bizarre and morbid of ways.

BURNETT: Casey, James, thanks to you.

And next, Donald Trump tweeting about Marco Rubio, calling him a boy trying for a man's job. Is the front-runner getting more read?

And an American Airlines pilot dies midflight in a cross country trip. What happened?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Medical emergency, staff has been incapacitated. Request handling for runway one zero landing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:28:18] BURNETT: Tonight, Donald Trump's lead is shrinking in two key early voting states. The GOP frontrunner is still ahead in new polls from both Iowa and New Hampshire. But in New Hampshire, his lead has plummeted by double digits and his numbers are dropping in Iowa, too. So, is the pressure getting to him or not?

Dana Bash is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump is still on top but his grip as frontrunner is not as firm.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not a masochist. And if I were dropping in the polls where I saw that I wasn't going to win, why would I continue? I'm a realist. I'm doing great in the polls right now. BASH: In New Hampshire though, Trump's 16-point lead last month has

narrowed to five points, according to a new NBC News Marist poll which puts him at 21 percent in the granite state. Hot on Trump's heels, Carly Fiorina now second at 16 percent and campaigning today in New Hampshire the old-fashion way at a rotary club.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Here in New Hampshire, we are all revealed and that's because this is a place where campaigning is intimate.

BASH: There is nothing intimate about Donald Trump's campaign style. A lot of interviews and social medias. Then there was this. A "Saturday Night Live" impersonator leading the season premier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very simple. I get in there, taxes go down, everybody gets a job, salaries go way up, we build a wall. It's huge. Over in China, they are going to say, now that's a wall.

BASH: The real Donald Trump is going after Marco Rubio -- style taking to Twitter to retweet a boy hood picture of the 44-year-old senator that also refers to him as little rube and says he doesn't have the swagger to run the country. But Rubio is on the rise from three percent to 10 percent in New Hampshire. In response to Trump, but he is defending himself against criticism from his former mentor, Jeb Bush, who told us, Rubio's inexperience as a first term senator was reminiscent of President Obama.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've had a president who came in and said the same kind of thing, new and improved, hope and change.

BASH: Today, Rubio pushed back saying it's about ideas, not experience.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If he had been in the Senate for 50 years, I think he still would have met some of the failures he's meeting because his ideas don't work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, those two Floridians, former Governor Jeb Bush and Senator Marco Rubio, they're both actually doing a bit better in the first two contest states, but in Iowa and New Hampshire, Erin, the top two spots are still filled by candidates who have never held elected office. Right now, we're talking about Donald Trump, of course, and Carly Fiorina.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you very much, Dana Bash. Something absolutely nobody would have predicted.

OUTFRONT now, former Reagan White House political director Jeffrey Lord, a Donald Trump supporter and Republican strategist Rick Wilson, who worked for President George H.W. Bush.

OK, good to have both of you with us. Let me start with you, Jeff.

You saw the polls, Iowa and New Hampshire. Dana was laying them out. Those numbers have to worry Mr. Trump.

JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: You know, I don't think so. I'll tell you why, Erin. Just below the surface of all of the stories about the polls is the obvious question of -- and it's actually not so obvious, of organization. And I was reading a piece today by my colleague, Steve Day, a radio host there in Des Moines and Iowa and very influential and knowledgeable and he supports Senator Cruz, as I understand it, and he's very impressed with Donald Trump putting together local activists here not relying on this sort of national consultants and that sort of thing.

So I really think there's a lot going on that is not quite visible to the eye as the poll numbers are. You've got to deliver on the ground.

BURNETT: Now, Rick, Trump says if he goes down on the polls, he would consider dropping out. Here's a little bit more what about he had to say about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe in polls. How many elections do you see where the polls were wrong? Not that many. OK, you see them, but not that many. If I were doing poorly, if I saw myself going down --

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: Uh-huh.

TRUMP: -- if you would stop calling me because you no longer have an interest in Trump because he has no chance, I'd go back to my business. I have no problem with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, Rick, you think this could be Trump's way of admitting his bubble is about to burst?

RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, I think that Donald Trump has a very strong ego shield around him that doesn't want to admit that the numbers are in a direction now that it looks like his numbers peaked around the time of the first debate -- or the second debate, rather, and they've been on a steady -- not precipitous yet, but a steady point where they are starting to fall back down to earth and other players have started to rise and I think Trump doesn't want to be perceived ever as a loser. I think that's a big key part of his overall personal image of himself and a key predicate of his campaign.

Remember, the core message of Trump from weeks and weeks and weeks is, I'm winning every poll. I'm winning every poll.

Well, he's not winning every poll now. There are a couple that are showing Ben Carson ahead of him. The Investors Business Daily poll out today was one of those and you're starting to see the slippage of Trump's numbers going from the 30s to the high teens and high 20s and I think the direction of them is not going to change. There's not going to be a catalyzing moment now until the next debate at the minimum and if the next debate goes like the last debate did, I don't think it's going to be a good day for Donald Trump.

BURNETT: So, Jeff, Donald Trump is fighting back. He's continuing his attacks against Marco Rubio. As you know, this has been going on for a couple of weeks.

LORD: Right.

BURNETT: Let me just show again that photo. He retreated a photo which shows Rubio at 13. All right. It's funny. He says, never hire a boy to do a man's job in the tweet.

All right. Are things like this -- I interviewed Donald Trump last week. I thought in a very human moment he admitted that it was a little bit childish. He admitted that to me last week.

The question is, is this the best approach for him right now, to continue these attacks?

LORD: Erin, I have to say, having been around a lot of these campaigns, this is fairly typical. This is fairly standard, beyond the candidate's general message.

When candidates start taking swipes at one another as they are all called on to do, this kind of thing happens repeatedly. You know, I hate to admit this but when I was a child, John F. Kennedy was getting these kinds of pokes because he was 43 years old. So, this kind of thing -- it didn't really take any -- it didn't have any, you know, sort of long-term effect here. So, this is just the sort of back and forth and I expect a lot more before we're done.

BURNETT: Rick?

LORD: I mean, Senator Rubio has gone after Donald Trump, I mean, that's what you do when you're in this.

BURNETT: All right. Rick, "The New York Times" reports Jeb Bush --

(CROSSTALK)

[19:35:02] BURNETT: Yes, go ahead.

WILSONS: I'm sorry. Donald Trump has said Marco Rubio living in his head rent-free since that debate. It's been bothering him. He's the one guy that Donald Trump can't seen to get to engage in a kind of back and forth that Trump seems to likes with the other candidates, to see from the other candidates and I don't think that Marco is the character that Trump thinks he is and I think that he's a lot smarter about the psychology of Trump and Trump is displaying a lot of ageta about Marco.

BURNETT: Ageta, an interesting word.

All right. Rick, let me follow you on this, "The New Times" reports Jeb Bush --

LORD: I'll look it up. BURNETT: -- is considering having his brother George W. Bush helped

him campaign. A lot of people would have thought, what that is, that is crazy. You know, it used to be that W. was somebody you never wanted to touch politically. But that is not the case anymore. CNN poll this summer, he's very popular. He's much more popular than President Barack Obama.

Why did it take Jeb so long to consider and realize his brother is an asset, he should use him?

WILSON: Listen, I'm not going to psychoanalyze the internal workings of the Bush family but I certainly think that with W's numbers with where they are right now and Jeb's numbers where they are right now, he needs to take out every card in the deck.

BURNETT: Every card in the deck, well, we will see that.

LORD: Yes, I agree with Rick. I've gotten fundraising notes from Barbara Bush, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush in the last three days. So, I think they are playing the Bush card to say the least.

BURNETT: And they are sending it to the wrong guy because you're not going to give up money. But anyway, separate issue.

Thanks to both. Appreciate your time.

The first Democratic debate, meantime, is next week right here on CNN. Be sure so watch next Tuesday night at 9:00.

And OUTFRONT, the desperate search under way at this moment for 28 Americans disappearing aboard a cargo ship that sailed straight into Hurricane Joaquin.

And an American Airlines pilot dies during a cross-country trip, 150 people on board. What happened?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:40:53] BURNETT: Tonight, a race against time, rescuers desperately searching for survivors as a cargo ship with 28 Americans sailed straight into Hurricane Joaquin. Tonight, there's still hope. A life boat is still unaccounted for. The ship disappeared on Thursday and we have new pictures tonight of another one of the ship's lifeboat. That lifeboat was discovered near the Bahamas, empty and badly damaged.

United States Coast Guard Captain Mark Fedor is OUTFRONT.

Captain Fedor, I know we spoke on Fedor. And you were in search and rescue. I know this -- now, you've located one body in a survival suit, tragically. That means at least some of the crew, though, did have the time to get into survival gear. Does that give you hope that somebody could still be alive?

CAPT. MARK FEDOR, U.S. COAST GUARD (via telephone): Well, the challenge is, is that if they abandoned ship back on Thursday, they did so into a category 4 hurricane. So, you're talking 140-mile-an- hour winds, up to 50-foot seas and zero visibility.

So, those are challenging conditions for anyone to survive in. So that's our challenge here as we move forward with the search and rescue.

BURNETT: And if somebody did manage to survive -- and I know that you are very much searching, how long could they have survived? Obviously the conditions were horrific. Now you're looking at, what, in terms of water temperature and survivability?

FEDOR: In the warmer waters in the Caribbean, normally, four to five days is what we normally look at. But the challenge there is you might not have water. You could be ingesting salt water and you really need to be out of the water to increase your survivability rate. And that's the condition that they entered the water in. That's what make the situation so dire, and that's why we're so concerned at this point.

BURNETT: Now, when you look at the videos we have of the lifeboat that was discovered, obviously, the one that was in pieces. Look, this was a big ship. Ships like this just really don't go down. It's really rare event, nearly 800-feet long. You've been hunting and hunting today.

Have you located additional debris and do you know where the ship itself is? I mean, did it just sink in its entirety?

FEDOR: We believe it did sink in its entirely. And the reason being, it became disabled Thursday morning. When it became disabled, it was at zero propulsion and right near the eye of Hurricane Joaquin while it was full category 4 storm. So when it was adrift, essentially, it caused them to what we call a trough in between the waves.

So, even a large ship, if it's getting battered constantly by 50-foot waves, 140-mile-an-hour winds, it's in a very, very vulnerable position and that's why we are so concerned.

BURNETT: All right. Captain Fedor, thank you.

FEDOR: You're welcome.

BURNETT: And next, how did a pilot die mid-flight on an American Airlines red eye last night from Phoenix to Boston.

And Jeanne Moos with the drag out moose fight over a girl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:56] BURNETT: A terrifying air travel scare. The pilot of an American Airlines passenger jet dying mid-flight last night, 147 passengers, five crew members onboard.

Listen to the moment that the co-pilot finally warned air traffic control.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) CO-PILOT: Medical emergency. Captain is incapacitated, request handling for runway one zero landing.

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL: The ambulance will meet you on the south de-ice pad.

CO-PILOT: All right. Are they going to have a way to get into the airplane quickly or do we need to go to a gate?

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL: They will have a way to get into the airplane quickly --

CO-PILOT: Understood, as long as they have a way to get on to the airplane. We'll need them to get to the captain. Thank you.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BURNETT: Rene Marsh is OUTFRONT.

Very calm there from the co-pilot, Rene, but it is terrifying to hear him say that the captain is incapacitated. Do the passengers know what was going on?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, it is the flight crew's discretion how much or how little to tell passengers. In this case, we know that passengers tell our Boston affiliate that the voice over the PA system was quivering when they were told the pilot wasn't feeling well. One passenger saying he knew it was serious.

This Flight 550 was flying from Phoenix to Boston. It had to divert to Syracuse. The pilot's official cause of death is still unclear but the co-pilot took over, landed safely. Once on the ground, first responders boarded the plane and the captain, sadly, was pronounced dead right there in the cockpit. A terribly sad story.

But it just goes to show how critical it is to have two pilots in the cockpit. One is prepared to take over if for whatever reason the other can't fly the plane. We also know that it is a requirement that these pilots get a medical exam once a year, twice a year if they are older than 40 -- Erin.

BURNETT: And we don't, of course, know what the illness was. Thank you very much, Rene.

Let's go straight to our aviation analyst Miles O'Brien.

I mean, Miles, this is really scary because -- I guess the big question is, why didn't they ask for a book for on board?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: That's a good question, Erin.

[19:50:00] You would think that would be the case. We don't have a full report or a full statement from American Airlines yesterday, but you had a flight with probably a lot of people sleeping.

So, not sure what was said but certainly, one of the things right at the top of the list would be first of all, fly the airplane, get it under control, but secondly, you want to see if there's medical help on board to see if you can resuscitate in this case the captain.

BURNETT: And, Miles, American Airlines will not specify. They are saying it was from quote, "an illness". Why aren't they giving for information? I mean, this is pretty scary.

O'BRIEN: It is but they might not know yet. They are going to perform an autopsy, obviously, and we'll get some further information. It could have been -- it could be obvious signs of a cardiac arrest in this case, which raises a question, every aircraft has a defibrillator on board. Was that deployed? Was the crew, that is to say the flight attendants in the back, were they notified of that and was that deployed?

These are some of the details we need to know about what happened.

BURNETT: Yes, we do and also, I mean, I guess the word now that they have had time to think about the words they're going to use, officials are using, quote/unquote, "illness", it seems a bit of a strange word to use for a heart attack.

O'BRIEN: Yes, you know, it's hard to say. I think that we just have so little information on this, you know? Was it a heart attack or was there some other thing that was less easily explainable, which might explain why it didn't play out in the typical heart attack fashion? We almost have a way of responding to that kind of thing.

BURNETT: And so basically the bottom line is, Miles, it is pretty terrifying people didn't know but as Rene says, it's the discretion of the flight crew whether to tell you or not.

O'BRIEN: It is. You know, obviously, he had hand his hands full and wanted to get on the ground as quickly as possible. The question is how, you know, how ill was the pilot? Was he still alive? Did he have signs of sudden death?

These were important questions asked, but as far as the most important job for that co-pilot, it was to take control of the airplane, declare the emergency, get on the ground as quickly as possible and make sure no one else gets hurt and by that standard, he did everything right. There are more things we need to know but at this juncture, that airplane is flyable and those people walked away just fine. They got to Boston a little bit late.

BURNETT: And the co-pilot did what he needed to do.

All right. Well, thank you very much, Miles O'Brien. So many more questions to be answered there.

And OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos with a knack down drag out moose fight. Wait until you see the prize.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:24] BURNETT: Two moose get into a fight over a girl. Wait until you see her reaction. Here is Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Put up your dukes, make that your antlers, a fight over a female in mating season spilled on into the streets of suburban Anchorage, Alaska, recorded by a father and son hiding behind a car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was crazy.

MOOS: When the moose brawl got too close for comfort, the driver of the car fled and Bill and Josh Tyra had to head for higher ground.

BILL TYRA, FILMED MOOSE BRAWL: I filmed a lot of that video from about right here.

MOOS: Where they had front row seats. At least these two weren't as dumb as the Colorado moose that tried to mate with a bronze moose statute, not since two kangaroos faced off near Sydney, Australia, have we seen such a wild kingdom donnybrook in a suburban setting, the guy who shot this set it to nutcracker, which made sense since that's where many of the kicks were aimed using both legs, weight resting on their tails.

Back at the moose fight, the struggle intensified.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One was just like carrying the other one all the way across the street.

MOOS: And that's pretty much how it ended, with the alpha moose giving the evil eye as his rival high-tailed it away. They left behind scattered moose hair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I collected it.

MOOS: The two did manage to bang into the Subaru parked in the driveway leaving a dent or two.

Have no fear, insurance agents assure us as long as the motorist has comprehensive coverage, moose damage will be covered.

But when the top moose went to claim his prize after the work, what did the female do? He vamoosed.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: That's my favorite part, she was completely and utterly unimpressed by that display. The kangaroo video remains my favorite of all time. I hear, by the way, that a kangaroo can break your leg with their tail.

Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you again tomorrow night. Be sure to set your DVR to record OUTFRONT so you can watch us any time. "AC360" starts now.