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United Flight Diverted; Mom Shared Love of Guns; Missing Cargo Ship; Afghan Hospital Bombing. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 6, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Stay with CNN for that.

In the meantime, thanks for watching. The news continues next on CNN.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Pamela Brown, in for Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being here with me.

For the second day in a row, a flight diverted because of a medical emergency in the cockpit. This time the first officer on board a United flight became unconscious. Let's go live to Rene Marsh in D.C., and Mary Schiavo, former inspector general at the Department of Transportation.

Rene, what can you tell us about this?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION & GOVT. CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, we know that this was United Flight 1614. It was scheduled to arrive in San Francisco. However, it had to divert to Albuquerque, New Mexico. And the airport there saying the reason for the diversion was because the co-pilot was unconscious. So they had to make that emergency landing. Once that plane landed, paramedics met the aircraft. They checked out and checked the vitals of this co-pilot. They did tell us that he was able to walk off the plane himself and he was then transported to the hospital.

But as you point out, you know, this is coming just one day after an American Airlines flight captain died midair in the cockpit. And once that plane landed - once again, that plane had to be diverted. Once that plane landed, he was pronounced dead right there in the cockpit. So that's why so much attention is being focused on this incident today.

We know that the FAA, Pam, you know that they - often times they will require a medical examination. If you're under 40 years old, you have to do that once a year. Over 40, it's twice a year. What happened in this case it's unclear, but it sounds like this person in this incident today will be OK.

BROWN: Well, that is good news, but just bizarre that these medical emergencies happened back to back like this.

Mary, I'm curious, how unusual is this? And is the crew trained to deal with these types of medical emergencies?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, for the pilots, it's unusual. We were talking yesterday that there have been seven or eight deaths since 1994 of a pilot while flying the plane. But falling ill is actually more common than we might think. And worldwide there are probably, oh, 25 to 40,000 a year instances of pilots and passengers.

But in the case of a pilot or co-pilot, the two professionals up there in the flight deck, they really do need to land right away. Whether or not the pilot is, you know, suspected of being, you know, gravely ill or not because the Federal Aviation regulations require two pilots in the cockpit, and that is partly why we have such a great safety record. The pilot and the co-pilot are equally capable of flying the plane. The difference between them is often the number of hours and the number of stripes on their sleeves. And so that's why we have two. And that makes sure we have a safe flight.

BROWN: Still pretty unnerving for those who don't like flying. People don't want to hear this.

Thank you so much, Mary Schiavo, Rene Marsh. Really appreciate it.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

BROWN: And turning now to another big story we're following. To the mother of the mass murder in Oregon. CNN has learned through tens of thousands of postings she put online that she shared a love of guns with her son, the 26-year-old man who killed nine people and then himself last Thursday. In one posting three years ago under the screen name Tweetybird (ph), his mother wrote, quote, "I keep two full mags in my Glock case and the ARs and AKs all have loaded mags. No one will be, quote, 'dropping by' my house uninvited without acknowledgment."

Not only did this mother know of her son's guns, even taking pride in his gun expertise, but she also reportedly knew he had mental health issues. In fact, a friend told "The New York Times" that the mother, a nurse, revealed she had put her son in a psychiatric hospital. Quote, "she said that my son is a real big problem of mine. He has some psychological problems. Sometimes he takes his medication, sometimes he doesn't. And that's where the big problem is when he doesn't take his medication."

I'm going to turn now to CNN's Evan Perez for more on this.

Evan, what more are we learning about these online postings from the mother?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, on the - on these postings she also talked about her and apparently her sons suffering from - or being affected by Asperger's Syndrome. And we can put up on the screen one of her postings. It says, "Asperger's Syndrome is a high functioning form of autism. At last check, 10 to 12 in 10,000 will be diagnosed with some form of autism. And I'm very familiar with it. My son has Asperger's. He's no babbling idiot, nor is his life worthless. He's very intelligent, is making - or working on a career in film making. My 18 years' worth of experience with and knowledge about Asperger's Syndrome is paying off." So it's something that she wanted to discuss. You know it should be clear also, though, that, you know, a lot of

people are also dealing with autism and they don't carry out things like this. So we should not be making any kind of link between those two things.

[14:05:04] BROWN: There's no direct link between that and violence.

PEREZ: Right.

BROWN: And in the other cases we've seen, usually there's another underlying condition.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly.

BROWN: The mom, though, has - she's been pretty quiet after this shooting.

PEREZ: Right.

BROWN: Has she responded to these new details?

PEREZ: She - she has not. We've reached out and we've not heard back. We do know that she has talked with the investigators and has given them a full account of what she was dealing with, with her son. But she's yet to speak out publicly, unlike her - unlike her former husband.

BROWN: And there's a lot of questions about the mom allowing -

PEREZ: Absolutely.

BROWN: Her son to keep guns, if he had these other mental health issues that he was being treated for. A lot of unanswered questions.

PEREZ: Yes.

BROWN: Evan Perez, thank you so much.

And I want to continue this discussion. A mother enjoys going to gun ranges with her son. He has Asperger's and turns out to be a mass killer. We have heard this before. The description also matches Adam Lanza, who gunned down 27 people in Newtown, Connecticut, three years ago. And to be clear, as we just said, there is no link between Asperger's and planned violence. There have been many studies done on this and nothing has found a direct link. In fact, people with autism, Asperger's, is on the autism spectrum, are no more likely to be violent than others.

So, let's turn now to CNN contributor Casey Jordan, a criminologist, behavior analyst and attorney, and digital correspondent Kelly Wallace, who often writes about family and parenting issues.

Thank you so much for being on with us.

CASEY JORDAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Great to be on.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Great to be with you.

BROWN: Casey, I want to start with you because Evan just talked about these online postings, when the mother talked about how she had Asperger's, her son has Asperger's. We've learned this detail from "The New York Times" that she actually took her son to a psychiatric hospital. We don't know exactly for what, though. And yet he had all these guns in the house. What do you make of that?

JORDAN: Well, it seemed she learned absolutely nothing from Nancy Lanza and the Newtown massacre because the parallels are uncanny. Nancy Lanza did the exact same thing. Her same had the same diagnosis. But what you end up with, very often parents who have these children, who are on the autism spectrum, is they get their parental blinders on. They think they know that child better than anyone. They don't want to listen to doctors. And in this case she's a nurse. And a little knowledge is perhaps a dangerous thing. She says that she suffers from some form of Asperger's.

WALLACE: Right.

JORDAN: So she, of course, is the expert based on her personal knowledge and no one can tell her anything about her son. Now, she said she didn't let her child out of that hospital until the doctors' orders to let him out, but the question is, how did he get the guns, why did she provide him with guns, and, more importantly, if she knows he doesn't take his medication, any common sense person, any mother should say, guns do not belong in this house.

BROWN: There really does seem a lot of parallels here between this and the Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter. Kelly, but the fact is, is this shooter, this - was 26 years old.

WALLACE: Yes.

BROWN: So how much responsibility does the mother have in this case, though?

WALLACE: Right. I know. We started a conversation really with parents now about how responsible should parents be, especially for what their adult children do. I think it's, one, it's making sure parents are looking at the warning signs all along. Again, we're talking about Asperger's. No link, we know, to violence. But was he angry? Was he alienated? Was he isolated? Was he disenfranchised? Was he showing -

BROWN: And based on the writings that he handed over, he was.

WALLACE: They found the writings. He was. Was he showing some rage? Was he putting some rage online? Was his mother aware of that? If she happened to be aware of that, then lightbulbs should have gone off to not surround her son with guns. She might think in her head, he wouldn't do anything, but maybe if she looks at that writing she might think differently and think, if he's so angry, could he end up hurting someone else or hurt himself? I think that's the conversation parents are starting to have.

BROWN: So that brings me, of course, to my next question, Casey, could she face lawsuits here?

JORDAN: I think that people are going to pity her based on the fact that she's lost her son. But I think what she does in the next few days is incredibly important. She needs to break her radio silence and get in touch with reality that she in some way enabled. Maybe it wasn't negligence. But as we love to say in law, the first bite's free. Once you see these things in the news over and over and over again, and especially since Newtown, then she has a warning. She knows her son fits that profile. She knows there are guns in the house and she is simply not going to be let off the hook. She would be tried in the court of public opinion even if there are no laws, and I don't think there are, which can hold her criminally responsible or even civilly responsible. But after this, parents are all on notice.

BROWN: I'm just quickly going to bring in Evan.

How - at what point can someone like her be liable, Evan?

PEREZ: Well, you know, there is - there is - there is some precedent for doing things with people know about an attack. For instance, in the Dylann Roof case down in South Carolina -

BROWN: Uh-huh, that's right.

PEREZ: They are bringing charges against somebody who they - you know, the authorities - talked to authorities and apparently gave false statements. So misprision (ph) is something that the authorities would look at. But in this case, again, as you mentioned, you know, a mother, her - she lost her own son. It's really hard to see that any prosecutor would try to bring a case like that. But I do - I do degree, next few days, very key.

[14:10:05] WALLACE: Yes, in is. You know, in the case of Sandy Hook, obviously some parents of the victims did file a lawsuit against the estate of Adam Lanza's mother.

PEREZ: Right.

WALLACE: And in that case they - they said that she was negligent for knowing that her son was mentally unstable, for some of his behaviors and for allowing him to have access to a rifle that was used in their shooting.

PEREZ: Right.

WALLACE: So, in that case, they did sort of follow the dots. But it remains to be seen.

JORDAN: But she's dead, so it's an estate.

BROWN: Yes.

WALLACE: It's - exactly. It's not (INAUDIBLE).

PEREZ: Right. Exactly.

JORDAN: (INAUDIBLE) is its own tragedy.

BROWN: It certainly is.

PEREZ: Right.

BROWN: An (INAUDIBLE) interesting legal discussion to be had there as well.

Thank you so much, Casey Jordan, Kelly Wallace, Evan Perez, really appreciate it.

And up next, why did a missing American ship sail directly into the eye of a hurricane? And how can a ship that size just vanish? Families holding out hope their loved ones survived.

Plus, a top U.S. commander testifying about the strike that killed doctors and children inside a hospital. Hear his admission about that decision.

And Donald Trump goes off during a CNN interview about everyone asking him when he's going to drop out of the race. Doesn't he have a point? He's the front runner, after all. You'll hear from him, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:14] BROWN: A Coast Guard official says the missing container ship El Faro lost propulsion Thursday and was disabled at sea, leaving it floundering in the path of Hurricane Joaquin. Twenty-eight Americans and five Polish nationals were on board the ship when it disappeared right off the Bahama. Coast Guard patrols have found a 225 square mile debris field, including a damaged lifeboat and survival suits. The NTSB has launched an investigation and Coast Guard planes are still searching that area.

Two graduates of the Massachusetts Maritime Academy were on board the El Faro. Heath Griffin (ph) graduated from the academy in 2005 and "The Boston Globe" reports his wife is pregnant with twins. Jeffrey Mathias (ph) graduated in 1996. His family calls Jeffrey a, quote, "beloved son, brother, loving husband and father." He has three children.

Rear Admiral Francis McDonald is the president of the Massachusetts Maritime Academy.

Admiral McDonald, thank you for coming on. I know this is a very difficult time for you and your community. And I realize that you did not know these men personally, but what can you tell us about the training that they would have received there?

REAR ADMIRAL FRANCIS MCDONALD, PRESIDENT, MASSACHUSETTS MARITIME ACADEMY: Well, Pamela, I guess I'd say two things. First, I did not know them personally, but from the outpouring of support from their classmates, the alumni, I can certainly tell you they were well liked and well respected.

When it comes to the training, we begin with safety training the very first week of orientation with brand new students fresh out of high school. We do ship board training, including firefighting, damage control training, abandon ship training and that training continues all the way through the four-year curriculum here at the academy.

BROWN: I know that their loved ones, a lot of people still holding out hope they're alive. What kind of survival training in particular did they receive?

MCDONALD: Well, we do drills, again, like I said, on every semester at sea and then in their junior year, when they ship out on commercial vessels for sea time, they are doing drills out there as well. And depending on the ship and the circumstance, that may include putting on dawning emergency suits. We certainly begin with that process back here at the academy. We also spend a lot of time qualifying every marine cadet coming through as a lifeboat officer, meaning they know how to lower and run any of the lifeboats on board these vessels.

BROWN: This is, obviously, a huge ship. We've been showing pictures of it. A 790-foot long ship. How bizarre is this that a ship that big could sink, disappear essentially? Could certain types of ships withstand a storm like this one?

MCDONALD: Well, I certainly would not want to get into speculation as to what actually happened with the El Faro out in the eye of Hurricane Joaquin. I can tell you that when a ship is in heavy weather, they're certainly designed for it. Generally speaking, you look to take that weather and the waves directly into the bow or directly on the stern. So if you get into some tough weather, you try to motor through or run from. The complicating problem here is what was sent out in the El Faro's earlier distress call that they lost propulsion. Having lost propulsion, that certainly puts you in harm's way, and especially if you approach the waves to the broad and really can upset the stability of that vessel.

BROWN: I know you don't want to speculate, but I have to ask you, because so many people are wondering this, and given your experience and expertise, are you surprised that this ship sailed toward the storm like it did?

MCDONALD: That's really a decision that I'm sure the investigators will revisit looking at all the data the captain used to make that call. I can tell you that all of these folks, all of these officers, especially the ship captains, are really trained to put life safety number one. Ship safety and cargo comes in at number two. And things like schedule drift down to a distant three, four or five. So while I don't have any of the information that the captain used to make the call, if you're in Jacksonville and it's a tropical storm and you depart under a tropical storm, if you look at a projected path that might carry that storm across the Bahamas into the straits of Florida, one can certainly rationalize what would be a very sound decision to begin that trek heading on the eastern side of the Bahamas really expecting a clear shot. And if you look at the storm's trajectory, it's really very, very unique to see a storm like that, one, ramp up as quick as it did, and, two, make essentially a u-turn in a couple hundred-mile stretch. So I'm sure that came as a bit of a surprise to the crew on board. And again, I - I don't know the steps they took in the moment to then try to look at evasive tactics or powering through, but I'm sure that will come out in the - in the investigation.

[14:20:20] BROWN: Yes, certainly something the investigators are looking at. Rear Admiral Francis McDonald. Again, I'm sorry about your two students and, of course, the hope still is that they will be found alive. Thank you so much for coming on.

MCDONALD: Thank you, Pamela, we appreciate your thoughts and prayers.

BROWN: And coming up, anger is growing after a humanitarian aid hospital is mistakenly bombed in a U.S. air strike. Up next I'll talk with a Marine who served in Afghanistan. What he thinks about this strike and whether U.S. troops should even be in the country.

Plus, Donald Trump goes off during an interview on CNN, blasting talk about him dropping out of the race. His response to critics and the media, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:11] BROWN: It's being called a war crime and now the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan is admitting it was the United States that decided to drop the bombs that destroyed a hospital in Afghanistan killing doctors, patients and children. A deadly decision and General John Campbell now says that was a mistake. Testifying today before the Senate Armed Services Committee, the general claims Afghan troops called in the U.S. air support as they came under fire from Taliban terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN CAMPBELL, COMMANDER OF U.S. FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: On Saturday morning, our forces provided close air support to Afghan forces at their request. To be clear, the decision to provide aerial fires was a U.S. decision made within the U.S. chain of command. A hospital was mistakenly struck. We would never intentionally target a protected medical facility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now to discuss, Sergeant Derek Matthews, a Marine Corps veteran who served in Afghanistan in 2011 and opposes the U.S. wars in the Middle East, and Brigadier General Anthony Tata, retired U.S. Army.

Sergeant, I'm going to start with you because we just heard there the general admitting that this was a U.S. decision to strike. Essentially the U.S. was asked to come in and provide air support, but ultimately it was the U.S. decision to actually launch the strike after doing what it says, a thorough review of the area. How could this possibly happen? How could the U.S., you know, hit this hospital?

SGT. DEREK MATTHEWS, MARINE CORPS VETERAN: Well - well, you know, I'm not sure. I think that it's - we've seen three different stories now come out from the official government and one of the things that I think is clear is that we do need a call for an independent investigation to find out the facts of what occurred during that strike and how the hospital was not on the radar for a protected, you know, safe haven for officials to not attack.

BROWN: Because, general, we know that the hospital had said repeatedly that it gave the GPS coordinates and we know that the U.S. special operations came there to do a review of the site. In your view, what do you believe happened? Would this ever be, in any scenario, acceptable collateral damage for the U.S.?

BRIGADIER GENERAL ANTHONY TATA, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Yes, you know, Pam, I know General John Campbell very well. I've served with him for many, many years. He is a man of great integrity. And so, you know, he's going to tell it just exactly like it is. And he's going to own the issue as he is doing in front of the world here.

And so what you heard General Campbell say was that Afghan forces requested it and then within the U.S. command authority chain of command, the permission was given. One of the things I would point out in my time in Afghanistan, Kunduz and that whole northern tier, was not an area where we fought very much, if at all, and it was very - very much a quiet area. And so I think part of the issue may be some unfamiliarity with the terrain up there. And so there - that could have contributed to the mistake that was made that General Campbell admitted to.

And I agree that there needs to be an independent investigation and figure out what has happened here. Mistakes happen in combat. This was a terrible mistake. And I'm sure that every U.S. and allied soldier, sailor, airman and marine on the ground there is very, very sad and disappointed that this mistake happened. So - but I think it's an unfamiliarity with the terrain. We fought mostly to the east and the south and the northeast. Kunduz is way up north near Tajikistan and it's unfamiliar terrain for many of the troops that are there.

BROWN: Important context.

And, general, this mistake has once again put the Obama administration's strategy in Afghanistan in the spotlight and, in fact, we heard General Campbell talk about it today. As you said, you know him and he says, you know, he touched about the fact that Obama's plan was to have only a minimal U.S. force left in Afghanistan by 2017. But he said, given the terrain, given the circumstances that play in Afghanistan, that may not be realistic. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN CAMPBELL, COMMANDER OF U.S. FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: As I take a look at conditions on the ground, as we have to continue to provide TAA to our Afghan partners, when we made - when the president made that decision, it did not take into account the change over the last two years. And so the courses of actions that I have provided to my senior leadership provide options to adjust that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, general, is this another case, in your view, of President Obama indicating one thing, which has been to this point the U.S. withdrawal by 2017 and then his general saying another thing? [14:29:56] TATA: Well, I think it's just a good indicator of why time

lines are never a good idea. You know, combat is event driven.