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Donald Trump's Lead Is Holding Up; Dr. Ben Carson Is Drawing Criticism; Lottery Scam; Interview with Family Who Rescued Elderly Man From Floodwaters; Greg Hardy Unapologetic. Aired 8-9:00p ET

Aired October 7, 2015 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: The United States and Russia have already been bombing targets. They are fighting two different wars there, apparently pursuing very different agendas. Russia has already been flexing its military muscles there. Today though, something new, a sign of just how uncomfortably close these two very different fighting forces appear to be to one another. Not just elbow to elbow today, almost eyeball to eyeball, American and Russian war planes.

CNN's Barbara Starr is monitoring developments tonight from the Pentagon.

So Barbara, what happened exactly?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, there were two U.S. Air Force f-16s coming out of Turkey. They were over eastern Syria trying to strike an ISIS target when Russian aircraft came within 20 miles of them under the new rules the U.S. has, the U.S. pilots broke off and left the area. The rules now are that if the Russians come within the 20-mile limit, the U.S. backs off.

It is not that they think the Russians are going to shoot them down but the Russians are aggressive flyers. They are uncertain. The U.S. doesn't want to have any mistakes happen and certainly, not until both sides reach that technical agreement on how they will both fly in the skies over Syria but keep themselves safe.

COOPER: And I understand they have also launched naval strikes in the Caspian Sea.

STARR: Absolutely. The U.S. noticed the ships moving into the southern Caspian a day ago for Russian warship launching some two dozen highly precise missiles in a naval bombardment of targets in western Syria.

Again, what this is under scoring the U.S. says is the overwhelming majority of the targets that the Russians are hitting now from the sea and from the air are in fact not is targets but are anti-regime targets, people trying to get rid of Bashar al-Assad and, of course, the Russians trying to keep Assad in power.

COOPER: Barbara Starr, appreciate it. Thank you.

STARR: Sure. COOPER: Troubling developments.

Back here in the United States just six days until the CNN democratic debate in Las Vegas and there is new polling on how well Hillary Clinton stands up to the competition. Over on the Republican side, that same polling has a fresh take whether Donald Trump's lead is holding up and some pretty sobering news for Jeb Bush from voters in his home state.

As always, John King here breaking it down by the numbers.

John, let's look at the polls in the lead on the Republican side, Donald Trump is, but there are warning signs, I understand.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There are some warning signs, Anderson, but let's look. This is a Quinnipiac poll of battle ground states - Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. Remember, Iowa and New Hampshire come first then South Carolina and Nevada. So these numbers will change when the people get to vote in the early stage.

But at the moment people are asking is Trump holding onto the lead. If you take this long view, yes, he is leading in Florida. He is leading in Ohio and he is leading in Pennsylvania. They don't vote for quite a long time. And if you look at the Florida numbers, as you noted, Marco Rubio sitting United States senator third place, Jeb Bush former two-material governor fourth place in the state of Florida. So Trump has bragging rights when it comes to Florida. Ohio, no Republican ever won the White House in modern times without winning it. That's the sitting governor of Ohio down there in third place, John Kasich. Donald Trump in the lead also in Pennsylvania.

Again, they don't vote for a while but it does show you Trump has staying power in the race at the moment. His numbers plateauing in the hide of mid-20s. Here are the warning signs, though, in each of the states, three in 10 Republicans, 29 percent, 29 percent and 31 percent say they would definitely under no circumstances support Donald Trump. That means harder to grow your support. He has what he has now. These people are saying they would never support him. So it is hard for Trump to grow.

Why is it hard for him to grow? Anderson, look at this. He's under water when it comes to favorable, unfavorable in all of these states, 57 percent of Florida, 58 percent in Ohio and 56 percent in Virginia view Donald Trump unfavorably. And they were ask the question is he honest and trustworthy, a majority exactly the same, 54 percent in the each of these three battle ground states so no. So these states could matter in the Republican primaries. Thy definitely matter come the general election, Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. At the moment, Trump has been in the race now for a while and his numbers, he is bruised up like a politician.

COOPER: Let's look at the Democratic side.

KING: On the Democratic side if you look at the numbers, if you look at Hillary Clinton, again, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, could be critical in the Democratic primaries, always critical in the general election. Not quite as bad as Trump, but when it comes to unfavorable favorable, she is under water. A majority in all of these states as high as 56 and Ohio view Hillary Clinton unfavorably. That's not good news. This is the biggest trouble mark. You're the moderator of this debate. This is critical for Hillary Clinton. She heads into this debate trying to prove to Democrats she's better than Bernie Sanders. She is also trying to change these numbers when it comes to all voters especially in these battle ground state. Six in ten voters in all of these battle ground states, hard to win the White House without at least two of three say Hillary Clinton is not honest and trustworthy.

This is a huge challenge for her in the debate to try to start to change those honest and trustworthy numbers. But as much as we say she has weaknesses, Anderson, and she does, this is a strength for Hillary Clinton. Remember, three in ten Republicans in each of these states said under no circumstances would they vote for Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton's numbers are lower, 13 percent in Florida, 14 percent, 18 percent in Pennsylvania meaning that if she is the Democratic nominee, she'll have an easier time than Donald Trump would for example as the Republican nominee in consolidating support in unifying the party.

[20:05:09] COOPER: There is obviously the big question about vice president Joe Biden. If he's looking at polls now right now, one who has some very good news for him?

KING: There is some bright shining rights if you're Joe Biden studying the data stage race. Do you want to get in the race, Anderson? Let's quickly look at them. Look at these numbers.

Remember Trump and Clinton were under water. Joe Biden is above water when you ask voters do you view him favorably or unfavorable in these three datagrams states, 55 percent, 47 percent, 52 percent. That if you move on, is he honest and trustworthy? In today's polarized politics, these are off the charts, good numbers, 71 percent say yes in Florida, 62 percent in Ohio, 64 percent in Pennsylvania. Again, compared that to Hillary Clinton, people don't think she's honest, they think Joe Biden is. And does Joe Biden care about the needs and the problems of people like me? Again, on this empathy question, Joe Biden's numbers are off the charts. So he can look at the numbers, people on honor states, they view me favorably. They think I care about them.

I would just add this caveat, though, Anderson. He is the new car on the lot right now. The other candidates, they have been driving around the track for a while. If Joe Biden gets into the race, takes a few laps, he'll probably get bruised up, too.

COOPER: No doubt. John, thanks very much for looking at the numbers for us.

Donald Trump always has plenty to say about his poll numbers. His fellow Republican candidates, eve former Republican candidates from past election. Also, he is not exactly shy as you know. No exception today in Iowa. He said he's not just a GOP flash in the pan like some other former Republican front-runners including one who is born in the town of Waterloo where he was trying to win support. Here is what he said about former congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, the

polls and a lot more.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going anywhere. You better believe it. He knows. He knows Trump. You know. You got the same mentality, right? We are not going anywhere. I watched one of the politicians yesterday. He's at one, no chance. In fact, I think he's gone down to zero. Would you get out? Absolutely not. We're in it to the end. Now you know he's going to cancel out next week.

You know, they used to say, well, Michelle Bachmann nice woman. Herman Cain (INAUDIBLE). But they were there for a week. And you know all about Michelle Bachmann, right? She won your straw poll which you don't have anymore, right? It tells you. But she is a very nice woman and Herman is a great guy, but there were - so, they will always say well, they were there. But they were there for a week. We have been there for now three months, more than three months. You could see Jeb was very disturbed but they went up to him, what do you think of Marco Rubio? Now, I would have said horrible things.


TRUMP: That sounded like -- right? But I saw Jeb and he said, I love Marco. He's a great guy. He's my friend. He's my dear, dear friend. I'm so happy he's in the race. And you can see he's seething underneath, right? And then they said to Marco, well, what do you think of Jeb? And he said Jeb is my dear, dear friend. And I said to myself this is political speak. That's why we're not getting anywhere, folks.


COOPER: Let's bring in our political commentators Paul Begala and Jeffrey Lord. Jeffrey is a Trump supporter, former Reagan White House political director. Paul is exactly the opposite. He co-chairs a pro-Hillary Clinton super pact.

PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I'm pretty big for Trump, too.

COOPER: That's true and in a different way. He was a long-timed advisor obviously for President Clinton.

So Paul, let's start of the Democratic side because I mean, we have this first debate coming up on Tuesday. As much as these numbers show Hillary Clinton doing well, even if Joe Biden does get in to race, I mean, you got to want him to get in, don't you? Or do you not?

BEGALA: You know, I've known him a very, very long time and I especially with everybody give him enough time and space. That would be for Hillary to the end, you know. If my brother runs, my brother is a Republican --

COOPER: Do you think it would make her a better candidate if Joe Biden enters?

BEGALA: Yes and I'm not trying to squeeze him in to the race, but yes. Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama all ran against each other the last time and it produced a Democratic victory. It made Barack Obama a much better candidate. Frankly, I think it made both Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton better. So a tough primary produces a tough nominee. It is not that I'm trying to urge him to run. He needs to take the time and make the decision best for his family but he could do a lot of good. He might win for goodness sakes, I don't think he does, frankly. I think Hilary will win. But he could do a lot of good for his party.

COOPER: So Jeffrey, Donald Trump. There was Trump mania early in the summer. A fever pitch in August. Do you see people starting to maybe doubt him or tiring of sort of the stick? I mean, he's still leading nationally. There is no doubt about it. He's still leading these three key states poll by Quinnipiac. You know, we should repeat that over and over again. He is in the lead, but -- well over Jeb Bush, well over Marco Rubio in the home state of Florida. Do you see anything that worries you as a supporter?

JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No, no, he's going to sail on here. The difference between Donald Trump now and Hermann Cane and Michelle Bachmann, those were, and they are great people. You know, I met them both. They are somewhat personality driven.

This is about a cause. This isn't about Donald Trump personally. When you talk to people, when you read the internals of a lot of these polls, people are really, really angry out there. They are very upset. They want change. They are looking to Donald Trump as somebody that they see as a serious change agent and that's a big deal here. That is not going away as these polls in these three swing states indicate.

[20:10:17] COOPER: I just got to put on my glasses to see if Paul Begala is smiles because I don't think he is yet. But now, there he is. He just broke out.

Paul, do you think he's a serious change agent and do you that this is a movement or that this is personality based?

BEGALA: Well, no. It is both. I think Jeffrey is exactly right. In fact, this is what I thought about. We are very close to Trump having the same problem that Hillary had (INAUDIBLE). She will not win every primary and caucus, nor she have to. Trump no Republican has ever won both Iowa and New Hampshire. Not even Ronald Reagan, not either to Bushs. Trump is leading in a commanding way in both. Now we see he's leading in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania. The governor of Florida, Jeb Bush two-term governor is so low that if you doubled Bush's vote in the poll, he still wouldn't catch up to Donald Trump.

But actually, honestly, Jeffrey, as a guy who wants to see Trump as a Republican nominee.

LORD: I know you do. BEGALA: I do. But you may see the commentary that set the bar too

high for Mr. Trump. The same way for Hillary.

COOPER: We got to leave it there --

LORD: One of the things, if I may --

COOPER: Briefly, Jeff.

LORD: Well, Paul is right about how a primary sharpens candidates and Donald Trump is a better candidate today because of all this competition so that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

COOPER: Jeffrey Lord, appreciate you being here as always, Paul Begala as well.

There is breaking news in the Oregon mass shooing. New information about why the gunman was discharged from the military that could shed some light on his state of mind.

Also, Ben Carson says he knows what he would do when faced with a mass shooter. His advice, though, is drawing criticism from some. Is it insensitive or not? You can listen and decided for yourself. We're joined by one of his leading defenders.


[20:15:07] COOPER: Hey, welcome back. We got breaking news just in on the Oregon shooter background that could say a lot about his mental state while in the military. Our Ryan Young is working his sources. He is going to join us shortly.

But first on the latest story, Dr. Ben Carson weighing in on the question everyone asked in the wake of a tragedy like this. How would I react in the situation like the one at Umpqua Community College?


BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would not just stand there and let him shoot me. I would say hey, guys, everybody attack him. He may shoot me but he can't get us all.


COOPER: Republican Ben Carson, by yesterday morning on FOX's "This Morning Show." But yesterday evening, he was defending his remarks on Megyn Kelly and again this morning on CBS News denying he was being insensitive to the victims and wounded survivors in Oregon have found themselves facing a killer armed with several handguns and AR-15 rifle, or at least an AR-15 style rifle.

Dr. Carson also facing criticism for a Facebook Q&A session which he said about his experience treating gunshot victims. Write in quote "I never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves a way." Part of controversy as well as pushback from his campaign and I spoke

earlier tonight with a Carson friend and spokesperson Armstrong Williams.


COOPER: Mr. Williams, does Dr. Carson regret in any way saying that quote "I would not just stand there and let him shoot me?"

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, DR. BEN CARSON'S BUSINESS MANAGER: No, you know, a part of who Dr. Carson is, Anderson, is that you've seen these situations so many times and no matter how many times you talk about gun legislation, stopping this violence as the president stated, it seems that it's routine in this country now and you've got to think that you could be in the path of these terrorists and you've got to think about how to react and what to do and what Dr. Carson was saying is that he would be willing to put his life on the line in danger, willing to take a bullet to make sure that more people were not part of the carnage. There is nothing to regret. I mean, I think most people can relate to that.

COOPER: But how does he actually know how he would react? I mean, Senator Lindsey Graham pointed out, you know, that unless one is actually been in a situation where shots were being fired, you really have no idea how you would react. Has Dr. Carson never been in a situation in a near gunfire?

WILLIAMS: You know, that's a fascinating question. I know you've been in the line of fire. You know, I think that is the question. You know, I had a situation early on in Washington D.C. when I was with my brother and some friends and we were walking in the dark over near Connecticut Avenue in Washington D.C. and you heard somebody screaming for their life. You could tell they were being beaten and attacked. And without hesitation, Anderson, I zoomed around the corner and found myself in the melee. They were trying to cut this guy's hands off and had I not intervened, this guy would have been killed.

Now, my brother who was with me at the time who is now a state senator and my friends thought I lost my mind. None of us know how we will react in a situation like, especially for a total stranger when you put your life on the line. But Dr. Carson feels in those circumstances that would be his reaction.

COOPER: Do you see, though, how some people might find it or make believe that in some way he was criticizing the victims who were not able to fight back, who didn't fight back or hid under their desk who ended up being killed?

WILLIAMS: In no way. If anyone knows Dr. Carson, if they watched him, if read him and know what he spent most of his life doing, that is the last thing that anyone could ever imagine that Dr. Carson would be so heartless he could not even sympathize and understand not everyone has the capacity to act like a Dr. Carson in that kind of situation. COOPER: But again, you say to act like a Dr. Carson. We have no idea

how Dr. Carson would act like this because as far as you know, he's never been in any situation like this.

WILLIAMS: Well, I would tell you this. In my 20 years of knowing him when I was watching his statements, the first thing that crossed my mind, yes, he's the kind of guy that would put his life and everybody else with him in jeopardy to save those lives. That's the Dr. Carson that I've known for all these years.

COOPER: There was a gentleman who did attempt to do something, got shot seven times for it, and Dr. Carson was asked about him this morning on the CBS "Morning Show" and he didn't know the guy's name. That guy's name is Chris Mintz. Dr. Carson didn't seem to know who he was. He was an Iraq war vet. He rushed the shooter, shot as many as seven times. It was his son's birthday. He was calling out telling the shooter it is son's birthday. He was calling out telling the shooter it's his son's birthday.

Should Dr. Carson be talking about what he would be doing in an incident if he doesn't really know the details of what happened in that incident?

WILLIAMS: Anderson, there are many stories that you must consume, many things that you must watch and be a part of as a presidential candidate. You understand this and yes, there are many details and I don't think that most people would find it shocking that there comes a time when a presidential candidate or even the president of the United States may not have all the details. It doesn't minimize the fact that he cares. He is empathetic in the fact that he cannot talk in terms of the future something like this happens again, what we can do as human beings to show our humanities to prevent further carnage and people from being injured.

COOPER: Mr. Williams, pleasure to talk to you. I do appreciate it.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Anderson.


COOPER: Given that conversation, it is worth mentioned, there is actually advice from experts in the field about what to do when you're anywhere close to what law enforcement calls an active shooter. There are steps people can take that they could save your life.

Randi Kaye tonight investigates.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As disturbing as this looks, it's only a simulation, a training video designed to teach people how to respond to an active shooter threat. No plan and experts say your chances of surviving drop dramatically.

A training program known as ALICE was developed by a Dallas-Fort Worth police officer whose wife was an elementary school principle. ALICE is the first training program of its kind that teaches proactive survival strategies. ALICE stands for Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Counter, Evacuate. The worst thing potential victims can do is wait to act. Once you are aware of the shooter, alert others.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this 911? Yes. There is a shooter outside the building.

KAYE: Then go into lockdown. As more information comes in, inform police. But what if the shooter is already inside your classroom like in Oregon? Experts suggest trying to negotiate with him. If that doesn't work, then hiding or playing dead. Only as a last resort should you physically confront a shooter. Throw anything you can at him, chairs, books, whatever it is to distract him, disruptions that create noise and movement can hurt the shooter's accuracy, that could be a life-saver. Countering the suspect is all about survival. And finally, if you can, evacuate.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.


COOPER: As we said, we're just now learning more about the Roseburg shooter's time in the army.

CNN's Ryan Young joins us now with the latest. So what are you learning, Ryan?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, we are learning now details. We learned the gunman from the Oregon college shootings tried to kill himself and that was for the reason for his discharge from the army. We learned that from sources that told our own Pamela Brown this information. A lot of questions about why he was discharged. We're now leaning it was because of a suicide attempt.

COOPER: And I understand police released new details say regarding events of the day of the shooting itself.

YOUNG: More heroic action from police officers. Two detectives arrived and knew there were 35 students inside the classroom. They heard shots but did not want to fire until they had an eye on the shooter. And once they had the eye on the shooter, they fired three shots toward him hitting him once in the side. The two officers who are being called heroes did not want to step in front of the cameras today, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Ryan, appreciate the update. Thank you.

Just ahead, a Keeping Them Honest investigation that we will have to see about a scam you might have gotten a call about yourself. Crooks getting you on the phone saying you've won the lottery and trying to get you to hand over thousands of dollars as a deposit. The criminals behind it have hustled hundreds of millions of dollars, if you can believe it, they are living in luxury in Jamaica. The investigative team, they are on the case tonight.


[20:27:36] COOPER: Tonight, an exclusive Keeping Them Honest investigation that trick our team all the way there to a Caribbean island, in search of the people behind an audacious scam. A conn, you might have heard of, if you got in a phone call saying that you won a large amount of money and all you have to do is pony up taxes and a small fee in cash right away and then the money is yours. It is, of course, not true. But U.S. officials say it began five or six years ago into Jamaica and grown into a title wave of fraud and it's all centered just outside the gate (INAUDIBLE) luxury hotel in Montigo Bay. How bad is it? We have to find out and we sent senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin.


DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are Jamaica's special organized crime police acting on a tip and finding a suspect in a back room.


GRIFFIN: The evidence police say is everywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we have the similar card.

GRIFFIN: Caught with two cell phones, lists of U.S. phone numbers and piles of cash, Corporal Kevin Watson tells us the suspect was trying to actually eat paper notes of what the police say are his potential victims, U.S. and Canadian citizens that have fallen for this $300 million a year scream.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we have the laptop. So he tossed it in the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we came here and entered the premises.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at that. See what it did.

GRIFFIN: Drove a nail in it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He drove a nail to destroy evidence.

GRIFFIN: The suspected scammer yet to plea in court will face the first appearance next month. If convicted he will most likely serve a lengthy prison sentence. Chris Poland would like it to be much more severe.

CHRIS POLAND, SON OF SCAM VICTIM: I would be part of the team that comes down there and catch the guy that I talked to and talked to my dad and I got the personally torture him and then hear him scream and beg, beg to save his life. And then I won't tell you what I would do to him, but it wouldn't be nice.

GRIFFIN: Poland lives in Knoxville, Tennessee. His father fell victim to relentless calls from scammers claiming that he had won the Jamaican lottery. Albert Poland suffered from early stages of dementia and believed it all.

POLAND: People would called and said he won a Mercedes full of money.

GRIFFIN: Albert Poland believed all he needed to do to get $3 million in prize money was cover the expenses, taxes he was told, shipping and handling, even travel fees. His wife says he may have sent thousands of dollars and the calls never stopped.

VIRGINIA POLAND, WIDOW OF SCAM VICTIM: We looked back on the checkbook and he went back, I'd say three to four years.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Three or four years.

POLAND: That he talked to these people.

GRIFFIN: And had he been giving money the whole time?

POLAND: Giving some money, yeah.

GRIFFIN (voice over): On March 21st, Albert Poland took his last call after being asked for yet another 1,500 more dollars to claim his prize, Poland put a gun to his head and killed himself. His family is convinced it was the false promises that drove him to suicide.

(on camera): They were really preying on him?

POLAND: Uh-huh.

GRIFFIN (voice over): Albert Poland is one of thousands of people, mostly elderly, who answer a phone call and find themselves entangled in a complex skillful scheme to rip them off. The U.S. ambassador says it's hard to keep track of just how much money has been stolen.

LUIS MORENO, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAMAICA: We have maybe tens of millions of dollars which we can definitely prove that it's involved, but we really think that actually it's a bit higher in the hundreds of millions of dollars and some people will even tell you $1 billion.

GRIFFIN: And in Jamaica, the lottery scam has created much bigger problems. It has morphed into an organized crime wave, bigger than drugs, a third of the murders on this island are attributed to the lottery scam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, it's a monster doing more damage to Jamaica than good.

GRIFFIN: Above hillside slums near Montego Bay, Corporal Watson (ph) takes us on a tour of lavish homes that stick out from the others, like this one, that he says was built with lottery scram money, people that operate rings of callers like the man under arrest, who spend day after day trying to reach gullible victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one was dialed at 10:47, 10:46, 10:45, and each of these numbers are different. 10:44, 10:42, so it's a pattern. The victims are sometimes are sometimes reminded that you fill out a sweepstakes form, and we're calling you to tell you that you have won. GRIFFIN: The Poland family has no idea where the scammers got

Albert's phone number. They have a hunch somehow it came from his own medical records, records that showed he was elderly, suffering from dementia, and an easy mark.

POLAND: They took my life. We was married 62 years, and when they took him, they took my life, too.


COOPER: That's so awful for that family. I mean, is there, first of all, even a Jamaican lottery people could actually win?

GRIFFIN: There is a Jamaican lottery. You play it in Jamaica just like state lotteries in the U.S. You fill out numbers, if the numbers hit, you win. No one is going to call you and tell you you won, period. And at any time, if you are offered a prize but first told you need to send money to cover taxes, transfers, anything, believe me, it's a scam, just hang up.

COOPER: The fact that criminals are preying on the elderly, the lonely, it's just despicable.

GRIFFIN: You heard the corporal there down in Jamaica talk about a sucker list. The biggest suckers, Anderson, are the most gullible, and that's why this is so tough. So many of these victims are lonely. They get phone calls and start believing these scammers are their friends. Some even think they are their lovers. The scammers keep coming, stealing money, getting more money wired to them, keeping the promises up. The victims don't want to believe they are being scammed, and often, when they finally realize it, they are so embarrassed they don't even come forward to the police. That's why the police in Jamaica and the U.S. are now intensely working together, both sides trying to stop this, and quite frankly, getting the word out with stories like we're doing tonight. Anderson?

COOPER: It's terrible for so many people. Drew, thank you. Good reporting.

Just ahead, I'll talk to the family that showed such amazing strength and courage. If you didn't see this last night, we're going to watch tonight, because we'll actually talk to the family live. A family who rescued a man and his dog trapped in raging floodwaters.



COOPER: In South Carolina, authorities say the Beaver Creek dam in Columbia has been stabilized. That's a huge relief. It was expected to fail. The evacuations that were mandatory now voluntary. The record-breaking floodwaters are still claiming lives. The bodies of two missing people were found today. Authorities say their truck went off the road, damaged by flooding. At least 17 South Carolinians have died in weather-related incidents in recent days. Hundreds of people and animals have needed rescuing. Last night Gary Tuchman really told us a story that was so heart-warming and so incredible, about one very close call.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tom and Julie Hall were out in the floodwaters trying to make sure neighbors were safe. They saw a car stuck against the fence. And Tom slowly made his way closer to see if anyone was inside. His son Brice shot this video as the father made his way to the car.

TOM HALL: I see this little hand come out of the window and I'm like, oh my God. That's not what you want to see. So he's waving, and that means, you know, you got to go get him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't stand up. The current was too strong there that would have swept me away. Tom hardly could stand on his own feet, and now he had to drag me, too.

TUCHMAN: Tom hugged George from the back. George hugged his yorkie, Tila. They had 150 yards to go to navigate to safety. At one point George started to float away, Tom grabbed him, but couldn't make the last 50 yards. It was then his wife Julie and son Brice came in the water and to the rescue. Bringing George, Tom and yes, Tila to safety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you see -- when somebody left -- saved your life, you know, really and not only mine, my dog's, too, like, you know, of course, you know. This man is unbelievable.


COOPER: Certainly is. Extraordinary strength and courage on the part of the Hall family, and speaking of extraordinary, George by the way is 86 and was driving from his home in Ottawa, Canada to his condo in Florida when he ran into trouble.


We wanted to talk to him tonight, but he had rested up and with his dog was back on the road today in a rental car headed to Florida. I'm honored though to talk to Tom, Julie and Brice Hall. Thank you all so much for being with us. I was just so moved by what you all did, and where did you find the strength to carry George and his dog through that floodwater?

T. HALL: Anderson, I don't know how to answer that question. When we got to George, when we found George and we knew he was out there, we basically tried to regroup and go back to my house and get ropes and equipment and kayaks and gear and call 911 to get help to go out and rescue George. And when we got back to the area where George was and got out to George, it was really just a situation where I had to go to George, and we tried many different methods to get to George, and we finally got to George. Time was going by pretty quickly, and the situation was just getting worse. And as far as strength to get back, I didn't have another option. I mean, it was pretty dicey there for the entire situation.

COOPER: Yeah, George --

T. HALL: I don't know where I got that. I've been thinking about it.

COOPER: George yesterday was saying he looked in your eyes and he could tell you were tired, you were exhausted by the time you got out to him. I mean, I hate to ask you this, Tom, but was there ever a moment you thought you might not make it back?

T. HALL: The whole time I went out there, I was trying to just be as safe as possible and just focus on one step at a time, and get closer and closer and be as safe as possible and keep my feet moving and keep on the ground, and just keep focused on George. And when I saw him and got to him, there was definitely a moment when I got him out of the vehicle -- I had to get in the vehicle to get him out of the vehicle, he was very calm, but he was almost -- he had been in the water for about two or three hours, so he was focused on the dog and getting the dog safe, and I was focused on trying to keep him calm and just get away from the car and get back to the safest spot I could get to, which is through a lot of debris and through a big wave, and I just wanted to go one step at a time. I was, when I got him out of the car and onto the road, it was a moment where we didn't know how far we could go, and we just had to kind of regroup and pray and keep moving forward and hope for the best. But definitely, Anderson, at one point I didn't know if I could hold on to him, and I had to make a decision I'm going to drop him, and I looked down in his eyes and I looked at George, and I thought that I'll never, ever - every night I'll go to sleep, I'll see this face for the rest of my life if I let him go. But I told my wife, I went out there, I didn't want to risk my life and his life, and I just decided at that point that I was in all the way to the shore, and we were together, and we were going to get as far as we could and did all we could, and that's what we did.

COOPER: Julie, you actually had to get in the floodwater to help out your husband and George and actually bring them both to safety in those last 50 or so yards. What was going through your mind as all this was happening?

JULIE HALL: I mean, I don't really remember a lot of it, but it was super scary. I was worried -- I saw Tom's face and he was white as a sheet, and I just, you know, put on a life jacket and waded out to him and said are you okay? He said no. And then, you know, my heart sank, and he -- I was very, very concerned at that point, but we got -- he got half of George and I got the other side and we pulled him over about another from where they were to half way to safety, and then Brice came in and helped us get him the rest of the way over. Just, you know, it's hard to remember a lot of what happened, the adrenaline so was strong, but I'm just so grateful everybody is okay. This could have gone the other way.

COOPER: And Brice, I know you wanted to get out there and help, your dad told you, you had to stay back. That must have been difficult to let him get out there, though you were able to wade in right there at the end at the crucial moment to help.

BRICE HALL: Yes, eventually yes, I was. The entire time I was absolutely terrified, because my dad was almost -- about chest deep in water the entire time, and so hard to stand back there and watch your dad basically in death's jaws with this old, old man and his little dog. He's like, I could be doing something and helping, but you are being forced to stay back. So it was one of the hardest things to do, just to stay back.

COOPER: I mean, we all wonder if tested, how we would rise to the occasion, and I mean, Tom, Julie and Brice, I just, what you did is the greatest thing I've heard in a long, long time, and I so appreciate you talking with us tonight. Thank you so much for everything.

T. HALL: Thank you for focusing on our city and Columbia and giving us support and letting people know what's happening down here. We appreciate that.

J. HALL: Thanks for having us.

COOPER: Thank you, take care of yourselves.


Just ahead, an NFL player is back for the first time since he was suspended over domestic violence incident. He says he's coming out guns blazing, maybe not the best choice of words considering he was accused of choking his ex-girlfriend and throwing her down on a futon that had semiautomatic rifles on it. That's not all he said. The latest, that's next.


COOPER: An NFL player who was suspended for domestic violence was back in uniform, talking to reporters, refusing to answer any questions about the incident that took him off the field. Yesterday Greg Hardy suited up for practice with the Dallas Cowboys for the first time since the suspension. When he was asked if he had any intention to work with domestic violence programs, he said the best way to win the game is stick to the game plan and run the ball. It pretty much went like that with every question reporters tried to ask him about the incident.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your thoughts about going through the legal process and the challenge and where you are now?

GREG HARDY, DALLAS COWBOYS: Man, once you put that helmet on, you only really have thoughts of winning.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- remorse over what happened that led you to be out this long or do you just --

HARDY: I'm sorry I couldn't be here for my teammates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What have you learned as a man throughout this entire process?

HARDY: That you should probably eat before you go to practice (inaudible).



COOPER: When asked about facing Tom Brady in his Cowboys debut this Sunday, Hardy said have you seen his wife? Referring to super model Gisele and said he hoped she, her sister and all her friends come to the game. Again, kind of maybe an odd choice of words. Joining me is CNN sports anchor, Rachel Nichols. For someone who was kept out for so long based on, you know, this, kind of surreal.

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: What's the opposite of contrition, Anderson? That was Greg Hardy, and what is so frustrating is not that the comments themselves were disgusting, and he went on by the way, he didn't just say that he likes playing Tom Brady because he has a hot super model wife and she should bring her sisters and her friends. He later said that he votes for other players to be in the Pro Bowl based on how hot their wives are. So just objectify everything a little bit further. It's frustrating, though, because the NFL's program when it deals with domestic violence offenders, isn't supposed to just keep him off the field. It's supposed to teach them something, and he doesn't look like he learned anything, does he?

COOPER: You talked to or you asked the NFL commissioner about this, Roger Goodell.

NICHOLS: Roger Goodell was available to the media today. And when I asked him about Greg Hardy's comments, he claimed he hadn't heard them yet, which is either maybe a little untrue or perhaps maybe he's very uninformed for being the commissioner of the NFL. Either way, it's disturbing. Once I laid out the comments for him, take a listen to what he said.


ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: There is a very, very small percentage of men who don't follow the policies. And when they don't, they have to be held accountable, and we'll do everything we can to prevent that, to intervene and to try to make sure that we get them to follow policies and see the way the NFL does things, the standards we hope to uphold, and we won't compromise on that.


NICHOLS: Maybe these are standards that he hopes to uphold, but when "Sports Illustrated" actually found Jerry Jones as he was walking out of those NFL owners meetings and they asked him about Greg Hardy's comments, apparently that whole objectification thing just continues right through ownership. Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said quote, "hey, when I saw Tom Brady marry Gisele, Tom went up in my eyes 100 percent. She's very, very attractive, and it shows what an outstanding individual Tom is." So that's what they are teaching over in Dallas, I guess.

COOPER: Rachel Nichols, thank you very much.

Up next, we saw the deadly side of motorcycle clubs just a few months ago in that shootout in Texas and now we are seeing other sides. Lisa Ling got incredible access. She joins me next.



COOPER: In just a few minutes, a new episode of "This is Life with Lisa Ling" may challenge everything you think you know about motorcycle clubs. When they make news, it's usually not in a positive light. You'll recall the deadly incident outside of a restaurant in Waco, Texas, in May. 170 people arrested and no one has actually been charged in the shooting that left nine people dead and at least 20 injured. What exactly happened that day, frankly, is still a mystery, as are the general workings of the motorcycle clubs, what goes on day to day. Lisa Ling got extraordinary access to the club, and I'll speak with her in just a moment, but first, I want to show you a quick preview of tonight's episode.


LISA LING, CNN ANCHOR: Can you talk about the patches on the back of the vest?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a Mongol's top rocker, the center patch with the Genghis Khan riding a motorcycle, and the bottom rocker that identifies the state that the brother is from.

LING: And do you have to earn those?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I mean, you earn them in steps. It's a three-step process.

LING: A perspective member first earns the bottom rocker, then the center patch, and when he finally earns the top rocker, he becomes a full-fledged member.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything is in here I need.

LING: The significance of these patches runs deep. Can you talk about what that meaning is for you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For me it's total commitment to this club. I would be willing to take a bullet for a brother and a brother who would be willing to take a bullet for me, so you get into a jam, brothers are there to help you out.

LING: People have fought and died for --


LING: -- for the patches. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For sure, right.


COOPER: And Lisa joins us now. It's great to see you. The access you got is pretty incredible. How did you manage that?

LING: Well, Anderson, after the shootout in Waco that you referenced, law enforcement has been all over these motorcycle clubs, particularly those called 1 percenters, and they are the ones that the American Motorcycle Association has dubbed outlaws. So after one of the funerals of one of the Banditos, they were the club that was, one of the clubs that was involved in the shootout in Waco, I started to reach out to them, but because they had so many people locked up and awaiting charges, they didn't want to talk. So we started to reach out to other 1 percenter clubs, and the one club that the federal government has been targeting the longest and hardest, the Mongols, finally agreed to give us access, because they want the world to know who they really are.

COOPER: They don't call themselves as a motorcycle gang, they refer to themselves as a motorcycle club. They are very clear about that.

LING: They are defiant about the fact that they are a club. And the Mongols, like other 1 percenter clubs, have had a violent history, and there have been members of the club that have been arrested and sent to jail or prison, but the Mongols maintain that they are a different club today than they were ten years ago.

COOPER: Do they talk about how they earn those patches?

LING: They touch on it. They didn't want to be that forthcoming, but they certainly touch on how they earn some of the patches. You know, they and other 1 percenter clubs are very, very secretive, and media is almost never allowed access, but the Mongols have been under indictment by the federal government for the last seven years, and it's very important for them now to get the message out about who they are. The membership is very vast. They have clubs, chapters all over the world --

COOPER: Right, not just the United States. This is global.

LING: Well, this club has chapters in Thailand, in Germany, in the UK, in Australia, so yes, it's a global club.

COOPER: Amazing. Lisa, fascinating stuff. Great to see you and hope to see you soon. We'll be watching the show tonight that starts in just a matter of seconds. We'll be back at 11:00 p.m. Eastern for another edition of "360." This is life with my buddy Lisa Ling, starts right now.