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McCarthy Pulls Name Out of Running for House Speakership; Ben Carson Interview on Guns, Nazi Germany. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 8, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:31:35] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're following breaking news out of Washington. The California Congressman Kevin McCarthy will not be the next speaker of the House of Representatives. In a surprise move this afternoon, McCarthy pulled his name from consideration to replace John Boehner who is resigning at the end of the month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: I think I shocked some of you, huh?

Listen, we've been going through this campaign talking to a lot of members, but the one thing I've always said to earn this majority, we're servants. We should put this conference first. And I think there's something to be said for us to unite, we probably need a fresh face. I'll stay on as majority leader. But the one thing I found in talking to everybody, if we're going to unite and be strong, we need a new face to help do that. So nothing more than that.

I feel good about the decision. I feel great to have my family here, my colleagues. I think we're only going to be stronger. We fought hard to win this majority and turn this country around. This will be the best footstep -- I messed that up.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You said you were going to run for the speakership. Why change? What happened in those four hours?

MCCARTHY: We had our conference, and there were calls in to the district. I don't want making voting for speaker a tough one. I don't want to go to the floor and win with 220 votes. I think the best thing for our party right now is that you have 247 votes on the floor. If we're going to be strong, we have to be 100 percent united. And I think, you know what, let's put the conference first. Because that's what this is.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCARTHY: Look, look, we have been talking -- I've been talking with a number of members. We've been thinking about this throughout the week trying to see if we can get there. I just think it's best we have a new face.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Rep. McCarthy, how much did your comments about Benghazi last week play into your decisions to step aside today?

MCCARTHY: Well, that wasn't helpful.

(LAUGHTER)

Yeah, I mean, I could have said it much better, but this Benghazi committee was only created for one purpose, to find the truth on behalf of the families for the four dead Americans. I should not be a distraction from that and that's part of the decision as well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There's been some rumors put out of the Congressman --

(CROSSTALK)

MCCARTHY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

MCCARTHY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you put that to rest right now?

MCCARTHY: No, come on.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who do you think (INAUDIBLE)?

MCCARTHY: Huh?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

MCCARTHY: I think the conference should decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Joining us now from Capitol Hill our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.

Dana, this caught a lot of us, almost everyone, I would say, off guard, this huge development today. What's the latest?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The latest is that this news is basically just settling in right now. You say that it caught everybody off guard. That is an understatement. I'm standing here now just because I wanted to give you a behind the scenes. This is the room, the ways and means committee room, but this is the door on the other side of that is where this very brief meeting took place and we were out here listening to what we thought was applause to opening statements and I got a text from a member inside the room saying Kevin McCarthy is out, and I responded, thought that this member was pulling my leg, that it wasn't true, until members started to pour out and we quickly realized that it was true.

So where does this leave us now and where does this leave the House now? That is such an unanswerable question right now. There's been a lot of talk about chaos in the House. That exists like never before at this particular moment.

There are other members who were running, of course. Jason Chaffetz of Utah was one of them. Let's listen to what he told reporters after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:35:52] REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, (R), UTAH: Absolutely stunned. Did not see that coming. Kevin McCarthy is a very good man, and he has always been one that puts his country before everything else. And so he and I stand shoulder to shoulder with the same goal and desire and that is to unite this party and take the fight to the president, to the Senate, and to the American people. I really do believe it is time for a fresh start. That was the whole genesis of my campaign, but we need to have a lot more family discussion because we need to find somebody that our whole body can unite behind and do what we were elected to do. So I was absolutely stunned, surprised.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And the other member running for the speaker's job who was supposed to have a ballot in this room this morning was Daniel Webster, the Congressman from Florida. He just told reporters here that he -- even he, who was running, he was going to leave today as at least the nominee to be speaker. He was completely surprised. Even said he's not sure what he's going to do now or whether he's going to continue to run or not. Everybody is so surprised because this simply did not end the way it was supposed to. They're trying to figure out what's next -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Technically, Dana, John Boehner, the speaker, if he decides to postpone his resignation, nothing would stand in the way, right, if he spends another month or two while the House Republicans get their act together?

BASH: He could. Anything is possible at this point. He could. It's unlikely. But if he feels like the conference and the House needs more time to sort this out, it is entirely possible that he could do that. But as of now, the House floor vote is scheduled for October 2 29, but to your point that was based on the notion today, at the end of the day, we would know who the Republican nominee for speaker would be and the other thing I want to add before tossing back to you, Deirdre Walsh was talking to some sources. She said from a source close to McCarthy the reason why he decided to drop out and stun everybody was numbers pure and simple. He had the votes to win behind these doors but he did not see a path to getting 218 votes meaning a majority of the House which somebody needs in order to become the next speaker.

BLITZER: Dana, we just got a statement in from John Boehner, speaker of the House. He says this, "After Leader McCarthy's announcement, members of the House Republican conference will not vote today for a new speaker. As I have said previously, I will serve as speaker until the House votes to elect a new speaker. We will announce the date for this election at a later date, and I am confident we will elect a new speaker in the coming weeks. Our conference will work together to ensure we have the strongest team possible as we continue to focus on the American peoples' priorities."

So, Dana, that seems to suggest he's open to the possibility of remaining into next month, maybe the month after, until there's a new speaker.

BASH: Look, it wouldn't surprise me if you hear John Boehner talk about anything having to do with this institution. It is a discussion about the institution and how important it is to him, which he says is the main reason why he decided to resign so abruptly himself last month. So it wouldn't surprise me. I think everybody is trying to figure out what's next. And I can tell you that even the people in the room who were listening to McCarthy were not only stunned, apparently it was hard for them to hear him. It's not just that they couldn't believe what they were hearing. It was even hard to hear so it took a few minutes for what McCarthy told his rank and file colleagues privately for it to sink in and I'm also told that some of his -- maybe even most of his fellow leaders also didn't know. The people who run this conference, I was told via text, they weren't given a heads-up about this decision.

[13:39:45] BLITZER: Dana, stand by.

We'll have move more coverage of the breaking news. The majority leader, Kevin McCarthy, all of a sudden, dropping out of the race to be speaker of the House, stunning his colleagues. More of the reaction -- it's pouring in right now -- and what it means right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's get to more reaction on the stunning news. Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader in the House of Representatives, all of sudden, announcing he no longer wants to run to become speaker of the House of Representatives, succeeding John Boehner.

Let's bring in former Republican Congress Mike Rogers of Michigan, a CNN national security commentator.

I assume, Mike, you were as stunned as all of us.

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: I was. This is that, "Houston, we have a problem" moment. Republicans have a short period of time here to get their act together or they're going to have some permanent brain damage going into the election next year. I think it's possible parties, coalitions -- both Republicans and Democrats, have coalitions that sometimes don't line up. But they're closer to each party, would identify with that party. Remember, Kevin McCarthy had the majority of votes in the conference itself, in the Republican conference, where that magic 218 number when it goes to the full floor of the House. If you don't hit the 218 number, it causes a problem. You'd have to go to Democrats in order to elect a speaker and certainly they weren't going to cooperate in any way, shape or form. That's where the problem came up. [13:45:30] BLITZER: Yeah, he didn't presumably have those 29

Republicans he would need to get to that 218 number, the majority number on the floor of the House of Representatives. So who can bridge that serious divide within the Republican party in the House right now, someone who can appeal to the mainstream, the establishment Republicans while at the same time bringing in that so-called freedom four, the tea party activists?

ROGERS: There are some candidates that would come to mind. One great candidate would be Greg Walden, the head of the committee responsible for electing the conference of Republicans into the majority. He's been doing that for a few years. He knows every member. He knows the districts. He knows there are challenges. He knows their political Bent and he's a seasoned hand which was missing in this leadership election. He has been around Congress a long time. He's actually been on a committee, moved complicated pieces of legislation, been a subcommittee chairman. I think you're going to see, and I am speculating but I think you'll see names like his and others who will surface as somebody that can bridge all of those gaps. At the end of the day, none of that majority means anything if you cannot govern. And what they've clearly demonstrated is right now what are normally internal family fights to the conference and, believe me, Democrats have these, too, but what happened is this spilled over into the public eye which is pretty unusual for a race of this significance.

BLITZER: It's very unusual. We'll see what happens down the road.

All right, Congressman, thanks very much. Mike Rogers, former Congressman from Michigan.

When we come back, we're going to break down my one-on-one interview with Dr. Ben Carson. Will his controversial comments on Nazis, gun control help him become the next president of the United States, or will it hurt his campaign to get the Republican presidential nomination? Our political panel will weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:51:45] BLITZER: Earlier this hour, I spoke with Republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson. He's just behind Donald Trump in all the national and key state polls in the race for the Republican presidential nomination.

Let's discuss what we heard. I'm joined by Mark Preston, our executive editor of CNN Politics; Nia-Malika Henderson, our senior political reporter; and John King is joining us, the anchor of "Inside Politics" and our chief national correspondent.

John, he was pretty blunt and not mincing any words as far as Putin and Russia is concerned.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS & CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Interesting because his tough words, even though Ben Carson is so soft spoken, he said we need to oppose him, meaning Vladimir Putin, we need to challenge him, Vladimir Putin, because of his aggressive actions in Syria and throughout the Middle East right now. That's an interesting statement from a presidential candidate, but it's a contrast with Donald Trump, the man with whom Ben Carson is competing with the polls, who said let Putin bomb ISIS, let Putin deal with this and we'll puck up the pieces when it's over. So a clear, declarative statement from Dr. Carson about what he would do and it puts him in contrast with the current front runner, the man Ben Carson is nipping at his heels in many of the polls, Donald Trump.

BLITZER: What do you think, Nia, about his comments? Rupert Murdoch had tweeted something about President Obama not necessarily being a real black president. Since then, he's clarified. He's apologized. But I asked Dr. Carson about that and he said, "He's president and he's black," but he wouldn't really -- he wouldn't say he's a real black president. What did you make of that?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yeah, I don't even know what that means, that he's a real black or fake black. In some ways, not surprising, I think, that he kind of dismissed what Rupert Murdoch said, that he wasn't a racist, because, of course, Rupert Murdoch seems to be a fan, at least now, of Ben Carson, so not surprising that he didn't want to get into the weeds in talking about race.

This is one reason why he's doing so well among Republicans. They like that he has a different take on race and on racism and they very much see his story as a reputation of what we hear from liberals in talking about structural racism. He has an "up from your boot straps" narrative. That's why he's gaining so much traction among Republicans.

BLITZER: In his new book, Mark, a book titled, "A More Perfect Union," just out today, he writes about the Holocaust, Nazi Germany, the slaughter of six million Jews during World War II, making the case that maybe if they had guns, if there hadn't been gun control in Germany, Europe in the late '30s, maybe that would not necessarily have happened. I asked him to clarify that very controversial comment. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & RETIRED NEUROSURGEON: My point is that was only one of the countries that I mention. There were a number of countries where tyranny reigned, and before it happened, they disarmed the people. That was the point. Noah Webster said, when talking about tyranny, that the people of America would never suffer tyranny because they are armed.

BLITZER: But just clarify, if there had been no gun control laws in Europe at that time, would six million Jews have been slaughtered?

CARSON: I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished, if people had been armed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Mark, that's going to raise some eyebrows. Go ahead. [13:55:07] MARK PRESTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, CNN POLITICS: Right, no doubt. This isn't the only controversial statement that Dr. Ben Carson has said, Wolf. It was interesting about is that he's critical of the P.C. police. He said we have run amuck. At the same time, he's critical of the media who he says they misinterpret his remarks. This is something we hear time and time again from Ben Carson, you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Yet, he's critical of people for trying to interpret them. When you run for president, it's not just about the policy positions, Wolf, as you know, it's about judgment and thinking on your feet. Clearly, Ben Carson is somebody who, throughout his career, Wolf, has never had somebody question him. He's one of the best brain surgeons of all time. Now he's running for president. He's under a new spotlight.

BLITZER: But he is, John King, doing amazingly well in almost all the key states, in the national polls just behind Donald Trump. He has a lot of fans among Republicans.

KING: And he's the candidate most would say is on the rise at the moment where Donald Trump has plateaued a bit. In part, his appeal, if you talk to people in these states, for a long time, evangelicals have liked him. Now as he campaigns more and more, he's getting even more votes, drawing some votes from Donald Trump. Outsiders are in, right now, in the Republican primaries. And Ben Carson is sort of a soft-spoken Trump. Never held elective office, challenges the orthodoxy of the party. Republicans love it. When what Republicans would describe as the mainstream or, in some cases, lame-stream media, try to get Ben Carson to explain himself, but he says, I said what I said, and that gets support among conservatives.

BLITZER: It certainly does. He is, as I said, doing remarkably well.

We'll continue to watch what's going on.

Guys, thanks very much.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

In the meantime, the news continues right here on CNN after a very quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:01] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow, in today for my friend, Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour.

We begin with breaking news. John Boehner's retirement may have to wait as chaos and shock erupt on Capitol Hill this afternoon.