Return to Transcripts main page


Escalating Violence between Israelis and Palestinians; Dutch Release Report on MH17; Final Hours before Democratic Debate; Family Fears Father Won't Survive Arab Punishment; Russian Airstrikes Continue in Syria; Jimmy Fallon Ponders Clinton White House Possibilities; Trump Uses the C Word. Aired 10-11 ET

Aired October 13, 2015 - 10:00:00   ET




LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Lynda Kinkade.

We begin with the increasing bloodshed in Israel and the Palestinian territories as Palestinian groups declare a day of rage across the region.

Multiple attacks on Tuesday have left at least three people dead. Just the latest in weeks of escalating violence between Palestinians and Israelis

stemming from tensions over a key holy site.

Now Israel is considering new security measures, including closing off Palestinian suburbs in East Jerusalem.

Senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is following all the develops and he joins us now from Bethlehem in the West Bank.

Ben, Hamas has praised the attacks, calling the perpetrators heroes.

Is that sentiment fueling unrest?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly we've heard that in the past when attacks have happened, that Hamas did praise

the attackers. But it's important to note that they did not claim responsibility.

And it seems that so far no organizational links have been made between anyone involved in this wave of attacks in either Hamas or Fatah or Islamic

Jihad or any other organization. And it seems a lot like what we're seeing here, which is ongoing clashes in Bethlehem, that it's really a spontaneous

thing that has happened for a variety of reasons.

But certainly, when you listen to the Israelis, they are accusing not only Hamas but the Palestinian Authority, as well as the Islamic movement inside

Israel, of inciting people to violence.

But we understand today, for instance, that in other parts of the West Bank, Palestinian Authority has sent out a message to cool it down. But

that message doesn't seem to have arrived here in Bethlehem.

KINKADE: That's certainly not the case. And, Ben, as this violence continues, some are suggesting that this could be the beginning of a third


What are your thoughts?

WEDEMAN: Well, we've seen flare-ups like this in the past. Last year at about this time, a similar flare-up. So it's difficult. I mean, you'll be

able to determine whether it's an intifada, the third intifada or not, depending on how long it goes on.

Keep in mind that the economy of the West Bank is in very bad shape. People need to actually get back to work. Now there are calls, for

instance, for a general strike. Life gets more and more difficult if there simply is no work to be had.

And like the previous, for instance, the second intifada was an intifada that was very much run by various factions, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas.

This intifada doesn't seem to have -- if this is an intifada, I should say, doesn't have any leadership.

All the attacks that have happened in Jerusalem and elsewhere in Israel seem to be done by lone wolf, self-motivated people. And therefore, until

there's some sort of organizational structure and pattern to what we're seeing, this outbreak of clashes and attacks, it's still premature probably

to call it an intifada.

KINKADE: And, Ben, Israel is considering new security measures. Just take us through the options they're looking at.

WEDEMAN: Well, it's important to keep in mind how few options they really have. Keep in mind this: Israel, in 2004-2005, began construction of the

security barrier, which did, to a certain extent, stop suicide bombers from reaching Israeli towns and cities. It's got the Iron Dome, which has been

very effective at stopping rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel.

But when it comes to these lone wolf, self-motivated attackers with no factional connections, it's very difficult to gather intelligence, to be

able to anticipate this sort of attack.

We understand, for instance, that Israel is talking about sealing off certain neighborhoods in East Jerusalem. For instance, Jabel Mukabar is a

neighborhood in East Jerusalem, where three of the attackers today come from.

We were there in the village of the suburb of Jabel Mukabar, where they did. We saw heavy Israeli security presence, where they were stopping all

cars coming in and out of the area. But they weren't actually stopping it.

Now, I'm going to step aside now.


WEDEMAN: What we just saw is this Israeli jeep, I think it's a border police jeep. It is equipped with a multiple launcher for tear gas

canisters. And what they do is they will fire -- it's -- I think it's got about 20 to 30 canisters on it.

And they will fire it into the crowd that's about 300 meters down the road from us. It's very effective at temporarily dispersing.


WEDEMAN: So there you go, Lynda. This is a normal scene. Somebody's thrown a Molotov cocktail at the direction of that jeep.

And now the air is thick with this very strong tear gas, which is fortunately not blowing in our direction at the moment -- Lynda.

KINKADE: And, Ben, since this latest wave of violence began, how often are you seeing these sorts of scenes, where you've got them firing tear gas to

disperse the crowds?

WEDEMAN: This is every day for the last few days, all over the West Bank, from Hebron in the south to Nablus in the north and everywhere in between.

This seems to be -- you know, today has been declared by Palestinian groups as a day of rage. Now we had a day of rage also last Friday.

So, yes, this is a very common occurrence -- and it's important to keep in mind an increasingly common occurrence that you're seeing, because what you

are seeing is, once more, the people of the West Bank and Jerusalem in revolt against an Israeli military presence that's gone on for 48 years --


Ben Wedeman, we appreciate your reporting from West Bank and take care.

Lawmakers in Iran have passed a bill allowing the government to implement a hard-won nuclear agreement with six world powers. The deal curbs Iran's

nuclear program in exchange for the lifting of international sanctions. The bill now goes to the 12-member guardian council for final approval

before it becomes law.

Russia's foreign minister is calling the shelling of Moscow's embassy in Damascus on Tuesday, quote, "an act of terror." A Russian news agency says

two mortar rounds fell near the embassy during a pro-Moscow rally. No one was killed.

Demonstrators were waving Russian flags and holding up photographs of Russian president Vladimir Putin in support of Moscow's military campaign

in Syria.

Dutch investigators say a Russian-made missile brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over Ukraine in July 2014. The Dutch safety board has

just released its findings from a 15-month probe of the crash that killed 298 people.

It included the reconstruction of parts of the aircraft at an air base in the Netherlands. The report says a warhead that fit a Russian system

exploded just outside the cockpit and that it was fired from pro-Moscow rebel territory in Eastern Ukraine.

A Russian missile maker (INAUDIBLE) the Dutch version of what happened. And Moscow officials says the report is biased.

Jill Dougherty is following all these developments. And she joins us now from Moscow. She's a researcher at the International Center for Defense

and Security.

Jill, obviously this investigation was not a sign to place blame or guilt on any party in particular. So just take us through the key findings.

JILL DOUGHERTY, INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR DEFENSE AND SECURITY: Well, obviously the most important one was that it was the commission -- the

Dutch safety board says it was a Russian missile, a Buk missile. It came from the left side and exploded outside of the cockpit, killing the pilot

and the crew.

I think another important thing is they say it came from Eastern Ukraine, an area which is not really defined, quite a larger area, but from Eastern

Ukraine. And significantly it says that the Ukrainian government should have closed that airspace, that it should have known that it was dangerous

and it was a responsibility and they did not do it.

Now as you mentioned, the Russians, at the same time, in fact, a few hours before that briefing by the Dutch, came out with their own briefing. This

was held by the company that manufactures the Buk missiles. And they came out with, you'd have to say, a completely different scenario.


DOUGHERTY: They say, the Russian company says that they did some mathematical modeling and that, according to what they found, if it was the

missile that's described, it should have hit on the other side of the plane.

And besides, they would argue, this type of missile wasn't even held by the Russian military at the time that this happened.

So you really do have two different viewpoints. The Russians, I would say, are pushing it farther and saying that it was the Ukrainians' fault, that

the Ukrainians must have carried out that -- must have shot the missile.

The Dutch are not going that far. That wasn't the purview of that investigation, anyway. Anything like that culpability would come later, as

there is another investigation, which is a criminal investigation, and that is not complete. It's still ongoing -- Lynda.

KINKADE: And that criminal investigation, obviously very key to finding the perpetrators and prosecuting them.

When can we expect those findings to be handed down?

DOUGHERTY: That isn't clear at this point. But that would be a very, very important moment when it does come out because it could actually, at least,

try to define who carried out this attack.

But I'd have to say, Lynda, at this point, the Russian officials, the Russian company that manufactured the Buk, all are trying to undermine this

report, the foreign minister saying that there were a lot of weird aspects to the investigation that was carried out.

And actually for four months now, they have been undermining and criticizing that report. So, at this point, they're simply not accepting


KINKADE: OK. Jill Dougherty in Moscow, thanks very much for your analysis. Talk to you soon.

You're at the INTERNATIONAL DESK. Still ahead, the Democratic candidates vying to be the next U.S. president, preparing to take the scene and debate

stage. We'll tell you what to look out for in their first say-so.





KINKADE: Welcome back. We're now just hours away from the first Democratic debate of the U.S. presidential campaign. Our Jim Acosta has

been in Las Vegas, where we've set the stage for the showdown. He has a preview of what you can expect.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democratic debate day is here. What happens in Vegas could shake up the next stage of

the race for five presidential hopefuls.

Seasoned debater Hillary Clinton backed by solid early poll numbers in key states is establishing her presence at these debates. The former secretary

of state making an unannounced stop at a union rally at Donald Trump's Vegas hotel, taunting the business tycoon.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Some people think Mr. Trump is entertaining. But I don't think it's entertaining when somebody insults

immigrants, insults women. If you are going to run for president, then you should represent all the people of the United States.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Bernie Sanders has yet to do a mock debate and says he's going to play nice as long as his competitors do. The Vermont senator

continues to pick up traction, seeing crowds 13,000 strong in Tucson, Arizona.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VT.: Let's treat each other civilly. Let's treat each other respectfully. And let's not try to demonize people who may have

disagreements with us.

ACOSTA (voice-over): A stark contrast to the strategy of their counter- punching Republican rivals.

DONALD TRUMP, ENTREPRENEUR: I'd love to run against her because she is so flawed, I think she's very beatable. But she shouldn't even be allowed to


ACOSTA (voice-over): Clinton is prepping for the debate with veteran Washington attorney Bob Barnett. A senior Clinton aide said her main

objective: cutting through the politics.

As for Bernie Sanders, he's seeking to convince voters that he's a serious candidate with mainstream views.

Meanwhile Jim Webb, Lincoln Chafee and Martin O'Malley have a tough road ahead, all looking for a breakout moment on the stage. But in a betting

town like Vegas, anything is possible.


KINKADE: Now I want to bring in CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona.

Maria, great to have you with us from Las Vegas. Now the latest polls show Hillary Clinton -- the latest polls show Hillary Clinton has a strong lead.

What will she had have to do to either maintain or increase that lead when she faces her competition on the stage?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Linda, I think that Hillary Clinton needs to wake up every single day and ignore those polls. She is

the best candidate when she is acting like she is the underdog, when she is acting like she is running from behind.

This is where we see the Hillary that can connect to voters, the Hillary that can talk substantively about all of her very detailed, very thoughtful

policy proposals and why is it that she wants to wake up every single day and fight for the American people.

And so I think tonight Hillary needs to be that person. She needs to connect with the voters, I think, in a way she hasn't been able to in the

last four months because of all of the politics that have been swirling around the stories about the email, the stories about Benghazi.

And I think she has a terrific opportunity to really focus on having that direct conversation with the American people about her plans, about her

vision in terms of what she would do if she were lucky enough to be elected president.

KINKADE: Bernie Sanders, the Vermont senator, seems to have a very huge following amongst young people.

What does he have to do to connect with a wider audience?

CARDONA: So tonight is Bernie Sanders' opportunity to also reintroduce himself -- or introduce himself, frankly. A lot of people still probably

don't know a lot about him. He has been very popular, as you know, with the progressive Left in the Democratic Party. And he's also from a state,

Vermont, that is not very demographically representative of the rest of the United States.

So Bernie Sanders tonight has to do a couple things. The first one is to convince people that he is more than just the insurgent revolutionary, if

you will, which is one of his big appeals, right, to those young people that you mentioned that he has a lot of following in.

But I think he also has to do -- start doing a much better job of appealing to those different demographics that are not necessarily represented in

Vermont, to the African American voters in the country, to the Latino voters in the country, to LGBT voters in the country, and speak to them

specifically about why he does have their best interests at heart, about why his economic policies would be the best ones for their community to

move forward.

And so again, I think, for him and for Hillary, it is a great chance to speak to a much wider audience and have a direct conversation that,

perhaps, for different --


CARDONA: -- reasons, they haven't been able to do that in the past four or five months.

KINKADE: OK. Maria Cardona from Las Vegas, we'll have to leave it there for now. But I'm sure we'll chat again before they take to the stage.

Thanks very much.

CARDONA: Thanks so much, Lynda.

KINKADE: Now Donald Trump won't be on the debate stage but you can bet he'll still have a say. The Republican front-runner plans to tweet the

debate -- during the debate to his 4 million followers. Trump has already made his disdain for the Democrat field apparent in some of his more

colorful tweets.

Now Anderson Cooper will moderate the debate with Don Lemon asking your questions submitted via Facebook. Live coverage at 8:30 pm on the U.S.

East Coast. That's 1:30 am Wednesday in London. Or you can watch the replay, that's at 8:00 pm Wednesday in London, 9:00 pm Central European


Still to come, an elderly British man is caught with homemade wine is Saudi Arabia. Now he's facing a very harsh punishment. But his family says he

has cancer and won't survive it.




KINKADE: Welcome back.

A 74-year-old British man caught with homemade wine in Saudi Arabia faces a punishment of 360 lashes. Carl Andree's family fears the flogging could

kill the oil executive. Now British prime minister David Cameron is raising his concerns about the case in a letter to the Saudi government.

Nima Elbagir has been follow these developments and joins me now live from Downing Street.

Nima, this is a horrific case, this 74-year old is a cancer survivor and now facing a public flogging.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A cancer survivor, whose wife, Verity (ph), suffers from Alzheimer's and his son tells us her hope is, in her

more lucid moments, that hopefully he will return home to her. And that really is the hope of those behind me in number 10 Downing Street.

But for Simon Anders (sic), Carl -- Simon Andree, Carl's son, he says what's important is that they're not trying to get out of the Saudi penal

system. They're not trying to avoid the rightful punishment for being caught with alcohol. He stressed to us he was caught with alcohol. He

stressed to us that his father, Carl, has already served over a year of his one-year custodial sentence.

What they want is some sort of clarity, Lynda, on when he'll be coming home and whether there will be clemency because Simon's fears are that, if there

isn't clemency, that his father won't survive. Take a listen to this.


SIMON ANDREE, KARL ANDREE'S SON: You know, he's 74 years of age. You know, I completely understand that he's committed a crime and for that you

has to face consequences, which he understands as well. But I'd just like to say on the basis of his ill health --


ANDREE: -- that, you know, if we can get clemency and get him released because I just -- I fear he won't survive those lashings.


ELBAGIR: British prime minister says that he's been lobbying. The British foreign office say that they have been lobbying. But as of right now, we

still don't have any statement from the Saudi Arabians -- Lynda.

KINKADE: And Nima, this -- the fallout of this case is affecting the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Britain with the U.K. withdrawing a

major prison contract.

ELBAGIR: Well, this doesn't come entirely out of the blue. Saudi Arabia has been increasingly engulfed in controversy over concerns that their

penal system has been handing down extraordinarily harsh sentences.

Governments around the world, not just the U.K., have been lobbying in the case of the Saudi blogger, Raif Badawi, who was sentenced to a thousand

lashes. He's already had 50 of those carried out and the worry is also over his health.

Then you have another case in which a man was sentenced not just to execution but to crucifixion for crimes that the Saudis say he committed

during Arab Spring-inspired demonstrations when he was 17 years old.

So these concerns have been raised repeatedly. Today the British government says that it's withdrawn its bid to train the Saudi judicial

system and we're looking to see if there's going to be any further fallout while we wait to hear if there's clemency -- Lynda.

KINKADE: You have to wonder how the U.K. got involved in the prison system in Saudi Arabia in the first place, given the ongoing human rights


Nima Elbagir in London, thank you very much.

You're at the INTERNATIONAL DESK. Still to come, remembering the losses after the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 as Dutch investigators

release their report.





KINKADE: Hello and welcome to the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Here are the headlines.


KINKADE (voice-over): The Israeli government is considering new security measures after a fresh wave of violence in Israel and the Palestinian

territory. At least three people have been killed on Tuesday, including two in a Jerusalem bus attack. Israel is weighing out whether to make it

easier for its citizens to buy guns.

In just a few hours, the Democratic candidates for U.S. president will face off in a debate for the first time. Five candidates are participating,

including front-runner Hillary Clinton and rising challenger Bernie Sanders. CNN and Facebook are hosting the event.

Dutch investigators say a Russian-made missile brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over Ukraine in July 2014. The Dutch safety board has

just released its findings from a 15-month probe of the crash that killed 298 people, says the missile was fired from pro-Russian territory in

Eastern Ukraine.

Let's get more reaction to the Dutch report on MH17. British defense secretary Michael Fallon joins us now from London.

Michael, 10 British people were aboard that flight when it went down. Firstly, give us your reaction to the findings of this report.

MICHAEL FALLON, BRITISH DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, we want justice to be done for the families of those British victims and the families of all

those 298 people who died on board during this terrible atrocity.

This report today takes us one step nearer to the truth and to the eventual identification of who was responsible, who authorized the strike and

eventually that they can be properly held to act.

KINKADE: And, Mr. Fallon, the report found that a Russian-made missile was responsible for the crash of MH17. Russia claims that this missile is too

old to be part of its arsenal.

What's your response?

MICHAEL FALLON: Well, one thing this report does was -- is undermine the credibility of these different explanations and conspiracy theories put

around by Russia ever since this appalling atrocity.

The report makes very clear the type of missile that was fired and, as I said, now takes us one step closer to finding out the truth, who actually

fired it, who authorized the firing and helps us establish how they can be brought to justice.

KINKADE: And, of course, a criminal investigation continues, those findings to be handed down apparently in the coming months.

How crucial is that investigation?

MICHAEL FALLON: Well, it's a thorough, robust investigation. And as you've said, you're right. It's a criminal investigation. And it is

designed to identify who precisely was to blame and to hold them to account so they can be put on trial.

And the families and friends of those who died can finally seek out the justice that they deserve. Somebody needs to pay for what was an appalling


KINKADE: Turning to other news now, the war in Syria. You are calling for an increase in military spending in the fight against ISIS.

What exactly are you proposing?

MICHAEL FALLON: Well, we do not want the Russian intervention to divert us at all from the fight against ISIL, which directly threatens the United

Kingdom, threatens the Iraqi government, as bringing slaughter and terrorism to the people of Iraq as well as Syria, and is a cause of

instability right across the Middle East.

So we want the countries inside the coalition to keep the focus on ISIL because, in the end, ISIL has to be defeated in both Iraq and in Syria.

KINKADE: This is, of course, a huge investment.

What are the chances that MPs there will approve your plan?

MICHAEL FALLON: Well, we have a new Parliament here. We're working to build a consensus across the Parliament for hitting ISIL hard.

We've seen British hostages beheaded. We've seen British holiday makers slaughtered on a beach in Tunisia. We've seen ISIL plotting murder on our

own streets. We're part of the coalition against ISIL in Iraq. But we need to be taking action, too, against ISIL and its headquarters in

Northern Syria.


KINKADE: Mr. Fallon, just finally, Russia claims it has been very successful at targeting ISIS.

What do you make of Russia's increasing role in Syria?

MICHAEL FALLON: Well, that seems to be propaganda. Our information is the majority of Russian strikes so far have not been in areas occupied by ISIL,

have not been in Northeast Syria.

They have been over on the western side and have been in civilian areas and been attacking opposition groups that have been engaged in the struggle

against the dictator, Assad.

If Russia wants to help here, Russia should be using its influence to stop Assad barrel bombing his own citizens, his own cities, his own children and

to depart and let Syria choose a more peaceful, moderate government.

KINKADE: Michael Fallon, British defense secretary, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate your perspective.


KINKADE: And we'll have more on the IDESK after a short break. Stay with us.




KINKADE: You're watching live pictures from Las Vegas, Nevada. CNN is getting ready for tonight's Democratic presidential debate. Anderson

Cooper will moderate the debate with Don Lemon asking questions submitted via Facebook.

Our live coverage starts at 8:30 pm on the U.S. East Coast, that's 1:30 am Wednesday in London.

Now surprisingly, former president Bill Clinton says he won't be attending the debate to cheer on Hillary. Perhaps he doesn't want to be a


Comedian Jimmy Fallon riffed on what another Clinton White House might look like during "The Tonight Show." Take a listen.


JIMMY FALLON, NBC HOST: Get this. They're saying now that if Hillary Clinton actually became president, she probably wouldn't have Bill be her

first gentleman.

Yes. It's rumored that her daughter, Chelsea, or her top aide could be named first lady.


But they still have to come up with a title for Bill. And here's just a few options they're looking at.

For example, he could go with first ladies' man. I mean, that could work well.


JIMMY FALLON: He can also go with commander in briefs.


JIMMY FALLON: And finally, there's always Speaker of the Doghouse. All good choices.


KINKADE: Got to love jimmy Fallon.

Bill Clinton certainly has a reputation as a ladies' man but what about Donald Trump?

He's gotten a lot of flack for making sexist comments about women during the campaign. But as Jeanne Moos reports, Trump often says he cherishes



JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump is always using the C word about women.


I cherish women.

I cherish women.


MOOS (voice-over): But it wasn't the word a woman used to question Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you could prove me wrong but I don't think that you're a friend to woman.

How -- what it --


TRUMP: I knew I shouldn't have picked her.

MOOS (voice-over): But the Donald lunged on.

TRUMP: I respect women incredibly. I have given women more opportunity than I would say virtually anybody in the construction industry.

MOOS (voice-over): Trump invoked his wife, he invoked his daughter, he invoked his mother.

TRUMP: My mother was one of the great people of the world, maybe the greatest ever.

MOOS (voice-over): Did Mom ever stare at you like this, Donald?

TRUMP: I respect women. I love women. I cherish women.

You know, Hillary Clinton said he shouldn't cherish.

CLINTON: Well, if it's all the same to you, Mr. Trump, I'd rather you stop cherishing women and start respecting women.

TRUMP: I do cherish. I cherish women.

MOOS (voice-over): And just when Trump thought it was safe to go on to the next question --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you become president, will a woman make the same as a man and do I get to choose what I do with my body?


TRUMP: You're going to make the same if you do as good a job and I happen to be pro-life.

MOOS (voice-over): As for what his questioner did with her body, hands on hips, eyebrow cocked -- Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


KINKADE: That does it for this edition of the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Lynda Kinkade. "WORLD SPORT" with Christina Macfarlane is up next.