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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Donald Trump and Jeb Bush Are in Middle of a War of Words; Will Joe Biden Get Into the Race?; Planned Parenthood Controversy; H.S. Student: I Hacked CIA Chief's Personal Email; New Details on Lamar Odom's Condition. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired October 19, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:07] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
We begin tonight in South Carolina where Donald Trump is campaigning while he in middle of a war of words with Jeb Bush online and on TV. A feud over the worst day in American history. Trump and Bush are sparring over the 9/11 terror attacks and what George W. Bush did or did not do in Trump's estimation.
Now, this started last week when Trump pointed out that the world trade center came down during Bush's quote "reign" as Trump said. And criticism Jeb Bush called quote "pathetic" on twitter. The feud continued through the weekend. Here is what Trump said on FOX News when he was asked flat out if he blames George W. Bush for 9/11.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jeb said we were safe with my brother. We were safe. Well, the world trade center just fell down. Now, am I trying to blame him? I'm not blaming anybody. But the world trade center came down. So when he said we were safe, that's not safe.
I'm extremely, extremely tough on illegal immigration. I'm extremely tough on people coming into this country. I believe that if I were running things, I doubt those families, I doubt those people would have been in the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And here is what Jeb Bush said on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My brother responded to a crisis and he did it as you would hope a president would do. He united the country. He organized our country and he kept us safe. And there is no denying that. The great majority of Americans believe that. And I don't know why he keeps bringing this up. It doesn't show he is a serious person as it relates to being commander in-chief and being the architect of a foreign policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Trump has continue this line on twitter today. He linked to a three-year-old op-ed from "New York Times" about briefings George W. Bush got in the weeks leading up to 9/11. Trump also tweeted this. Quote "Jeb is fighting to defend a catastrophic event. I'm fighting to make sure it doesn't happen again. Jeb is too soft. We need tougher and sharper."
As we say, Trump is not letting up and his poll numbers are holding up. In a new NBC News/"wall Street Journal" poll, Trump is at the highest level support yet, 25 percent. Dr. Ben Carson basically tied with 22 percent within the margin of error. Marco Rubio is in third with 13 percent with the rest of the field in single digits.
Now, whatever you think of Trump's strategy, it's clearly working. Is there a tipping point? Are supporters buying his recent politicizing of the deadliest most tragic day in a recent American history?
Gary Tuchman is in the South Carolina with Trump's campaigning tonight. He joins us now.
Did Trump mention 9/11 at this even event?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, he did not but he did mention something in the speech that was a little bit different. There were about 5,000 people in this civic center in Anderson, South Carolina. And he asked everyone do you like the second amendment? And everyone cheered and hollered. And then he said well, President Obama wants to sign an executive order to take your guns away. And everyone hoot and hollered. Of course, there is zero indication from the White House that any such thing is being considered. But there are many people who left this auditorium convinced that President Obama wants to take guns away after Donald Trump said it.
Donald Trump criticized President Obama. He criticized Hillary Clinton. He criticized the home state senator Lindsey Graham who is also running for president, Republican presidential nomination. He also criticized Jeb Bush but did not mention George W. Bush. He did not mention what happened in 9/11.
Nevertheless, many of the people who were here heard a few things from Donald Trump over the last few days.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Gary and Linda are first in line showing up more than four hours early to see Donald Trump in Anderson, South Carolina.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is my first time ever voting in my life. I'm 70 years old.
TUCHMAN: How come you haven't voted before?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn't see anybody worthwhile to vote for until now. TUCHMAN: And (INAUDIBLE) is all aboard the Trump train. I asked him
and others about Donald Trump using the September 11th terrorist attacks in campaigning and claiming he would have been able to prevent the attacks had he been office. How do you feel he's making statements like that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Donald says it, I think it. That's how much I believe in him.
TUCHMAN: Trump says tough immigration policies would have thwarted the 9/11 attacks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you all to know --
TUCHMAN: And while he says he is not blaming President Bush for the attacks, he is certainly as pointing out that he was president at the time. Does that bother you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does not. He was in office when that happened, unfortunately. I did support George Bush. I'm a Republican, and I support Donald Trump.
TUCHMAN: Donald Trump's statements and insinuations are notable because in the 14-plus years since the 9/11 attacks, casting any kind of blame on American political leaders both Republican and Democrats what happened on that horrible day has for the most part not been done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The truth is it happened when he was in office.
TUCHMAN: So you think it's OK though to make that part of the campaign?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, maybe not. Maybe he's a little off on that.
TUCHMAN: Erica (INAUDIBLE) who travels to Trump rallies to sell Trump's souvenir souvenirs, like the real estate tycoon's approach.
[20:05:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I personally feel like it is fine. He's a very bold and brash businessman and he brings that to the table as far as his campaign running in the White House, for the White House and I think it is fine.
TRUMP: What a crowd.
TUCHMAN: Although most people at this Trump rally are committed to him, there are some here who say they are still weighing their options.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does over state a lot of things and then under states. And of course, we've got to quit the name calling. I mean, literally, you know, let's be grownups about it. Let's not call people names. You know, calling people stupid, fat, ugly, dumb, you know, morons, you're going to have to work with these morons.
COOPER: The fact that Trump did not mention George W. Bush or September 11th, any chance that might indicate he's done talking about it?
TUCHMAN: Donald Trump, Anderson, is good at mentioning things that work to his advantage. So it's notable that he did not mention it on this evening. He is also been very accessible to members of the news media like me before and after his rallies. So today, as he came out, we wanted to ask are you planning to talk about George W. Bush and events of 9/11. They pull up his limousine right here in this building. And when we ask that question, he was quiet as a church mouse. He didn't answer it.
COOPER: Gary, let's see. Thanks very much.
Joining me now CNN political commentator Peter Beinart who has an article in "the Atlantic" today saying Trump is right about 9/11, also CNN counterterrorism analyst Phillip Mudd, a former FBI and CIA senior official.
So Peter, what do you mean? You talked about in the run up to 9/11, that Trump is essentially right about George Bush, in what way?
PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. We don't know if Bush could have stopped 9/11, obviously. But I think we can ask the question did he do everything he could have given what he knew at the time. And if you look at his own former counterterrorism advisors, people like Richard Clark, who was the counterterrorism czar at the National Security Council, he wrote in his book that he was basically desperately trying to get top list officials to focus on the bin Laden threat. He was so despondent about the unwillingness to be actually considered as reassigned from the issue in the summer because they were paying no attention to him. You find the same thing, people of the CIA in reporting they also were so was so despondent about the fact that they could not get the Bush administration's attention on this, that they also considered resigning their posts. That's how difficult it was to focus administration, despite the fact that the administration, the president got 36 warnings about the potential of bin Laden striking the United States between when he came in in January of 2001 and September 11th.
COOPER: Phil, I mean, Peter's argument isn't that Bush could have stopped 9/11 definitively from happening but his administration could have done more to stop. White house officials were concerned with Iraq than al-Qaeda. Do you buy that?
PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Not so much. Look, I think you have to take this in context. There is a fair judgment that says back - and was at the White House in 2001 in the Bush administration, detail from the CIA there was too much focus, for example, on North Korea, Iran and missile events. But you look at the 14 years after 9/11, you look at 100 plus countries involved in the coalition to fight Al-Qaeda, armed drones by the CIA that kill al-Qaeda members. That would have never been considered by President Clinton or President Bush before 9/11. You look at the amount of dollars the fact that we fought two wars to
think that in the seven, eight, nine months of the Bush administration leading up to 9/11 that more focus on Al-Qaeda could have somehow prevented a tragedy, I think is an insinuation it doesn't hold water.
Two questions, Anderson, one, should administration focus more on terrorism, sure? Two separate question, let's not confuse it, would that make a difference in the tragedy that lead to the deaths of nearly 3,000? I don't think so.
BEINART: Well, Richard Clark said it could have. And the example he points to is what the Clinton administration did in 1999 when there were warnings about a millennium attack around the turn of the century. And they had daily meetings. Clinton demanded dated meetings between his national security advisors, head of the FBI, CIA. They basically demanded that the people inside those agencies really kind of shake the leaves in terms of what was going on and they managed to capture this guy Akmed Rassan (ph) who was coming in across the Canadian border. So he thinks if there was more attention in the top, maybe members -- Zackery was arrested that summer in Minnesota, the FBI didn't even -- couldn't even check his laptop.
COOPER: But Peter, you know, arguably, I mean, there was prior, there was an attack in 1993 on the world trade center. There was the, you know, bombings in East Africa. So there were other, you know, administrations which, you know, you could paint with the same brush.
BEINART: Absolutely, the USS coal in October 2000, the end of it. Right, so no. I'm not claiming that the Bush administration could have stopped it. I'm claiming that there is a possibility they could have stop it and didn't do everything. They reasonably could have been expected to do.
COOPER: Phil, were signs missed? You know, a lot of people point to the presidents' daily brief that, you know, just prior -- the summer prior to 9/11 they talked about the possibility of an attack or certain kind of attack and, you know, the title of the president daily brief is bin Laden determined to strike the U.S. Is it fair to point to that? Or because of that kind cherry picking intelligence reports?
[20:10:11] MUDD: It is cherry picking. Look, if you look at the presidents' daily brief and I looked it terrorism articles for 10, 15 years that went into the daily brief for the president. You've got to put that in context about Iranian missile systems and economic developments, about global health issues like what we saw last year, e-bola. We're looking at one article saying the president should have taken a general warning saying Al-Qaeda is looking at us saying a month before 9/11, the president should have taken hard left in American foreign policy to react to this.
Let me give you a lesson about intelligence, especially counterterrorism intelligence. Who is it? Where is it? When is it? How is it? That information that the president received in the summer provided a warning that should have led the White House to say we need to think more generally about policy on Al-Qaeda. But it was not specific enough to allow any president, including President Bush to say I'm going to change the world to chase this organization. Wasn't specific enough.
COOPER: Peter, just on the politics of this, do you think it is smart for Donald Trump to do this? I mean, it's clearly in some ways, you know, there's the belief about this actual issue but it is also is linking Jeb Bush to his brother.
BEINART: Right. I'm not sure it's that smart for Donald Trump to be doing this. I think you see as you're reporting showed, he is backing away a little bit because George W. Bush is popular among Republicans. But I think Donald Trump also just desperately likes to get his name in light and this has gotten him to be the front of it, of the center of the national attention again for a couple days.
COOPER: And also, for those who say that he is telling it like it is or speaking his mind, this certainly argues for that as well whether or not it's political feasible or wise.
Peter Beinart, thank you. Phil Mudd, always good to have you on.
MUDD: Thank you.
COOPER: Quick programming note, Donald Trump will be a guest on "NEW DAY" tomorrow morning. That's at 6:00 a.m. right here obviously on CNN.
One of the big question looming over this presidential race as it stands now, will Joe Biden run? There are some signs tonight that the vice president may be at least thinking about putting together a campaign staff. If he does run, will it be a game changer in the Democratic race? We'll look at where we are next.
Plus, there is breaking news tonight on the condition of basketball and reality TV star Lamar Odom who is in the hospital after being found unresponsive at a brothel.
[20:16:02] COOPER: The race for the White House may soon get a big shakeup in the Democratic side. A source tells CNN that vice president Joe Biden is meeting with his top advisors tonight and interviews are being set up to staff up a potential Biden campaign.
Our chief political correspondent Dana Bash joins us with the latest.
So Dana, what are you learning?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That according to a source I spoke to who is familiar with the conversations, team Biden is reaching out to staff, not just that, reaching out and scheduling interviews for potential staff for a Biden campaign. Now does that mean 100 percent he is in, he is running and he is going to have a campaign? No. But it does mean that the team around him has gone another step in making sure that he is ready and prepared to do so.
Having said that, you know, even more today than yesterday and over the weekend, all signs are pointing to the fact that he is ready to go, that he has made the decision as yes, but it's not going to be a yes and it's not going to be a run until Joe Biden himself says so publicly. So before that happens, he always has a chance to change.
COOPER: What about this congressman from Pennsylvania? He seems pretty convinced he is running.
BASH: This is actually something I've never seen before, a member of Congress acting as reporter. It is right. Congressman Boyle from Pennsylvania, here is what he tweeted. He said I have a very good source close to Joe that tells me VP Biden will run for president. And then he stood by it even and especially after the Biden campaign or I shouldn't say campaign, the vice president's office said we don't know what he's talking about.
So, you know, look, this is probably something that he feels confident enough to do and, you know, maybe he is having conversations with people who are very close to the vice president but something that is quite odd and sort of shows you what today's social media does even to politicians.
COOPER: Biden does have to make a decision soon, though.
BASH: He does. Look, he has got real deadlines coming up to actually get on the ballot, to have your name on the ballot in Democratic primary contests, Texas for example, you've got to have it done soon. But beyond that, it's also just a matter of will and buzz and energy because --
COOPER: Been dragging on for a while.
BASH: It's been dragging on for a-while. I mean, since August it has been reported that he was seriously considering it, and there was a big ground swell of support for him, never mind his personal situation, which is very tragic, but just on raw politics here, when Hillary Clinton wasn't doing so well over the summer. There was an opening for him and even people I talked to that are close to him, they are worried that he kind of maybe missed his moment. But, you know, you never know. We know from past history that things can change very quickly if he does decide to jump in. You know, he could give her a run for his money.
COOPER: Yes. All right, Dana Bash. Dana, thanks.
COOPER: Joining me now, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Paul Begala, who is co-chair a pro-Hillary Clinton super PAC, a long-time advisor to President Bill Clinton in the '90s, CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson and political commentator Ryan Lizza, Washington Correspondent for 'The New Yorker."
So Paul, when you look at the length of time that it has taken Biden to decide, do you think it has taken too long that he actually could have hurt his chances by waiting, maybe missed an opportunity or window of opportunity? PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, the later he waits the
harder this to put together the team. But Dana's reporting is interesting. I mean, that they are talking to folks to get to line up the people. I mean, he is a beloved figure. He has run twice before. There is, you know, it's a little rusty, but there is an infrastructure out there that he has used in prior campaigns that he can activate. I don't know anybody ever for Joe Biden, I never did. But I know anybody who have worked that didn't love him. And so he will be able to put the organization together. It's getting toward time to make the decision but that's why I think he's making the decision.
COOPER: Nia, what are you hearing for your sources?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I talked to folks in South Carolina and we know that that would be an important state for him. They say that the time frame is more like one to two weeks before he actually makes an announcement. They think he will get into this race. And in the meantime, they would have to figure out the campaign, would have to figure out where he makes the announcement and what his message is.
But the one to two week time frame would give him enough time to be in the race for the next Democratic debate. And he also make those deadlines, particularly in southern states like Texas and Georgia because that's where he would make his stand and really be strong if he gets into this thing, that is his argument, that he would be strong in the south against Hillary Clinton with African-American voters.
[20:20:32] COOPER: Ryan, I mean, Hillary Clinton has already had a lot of lead time to, you know, build a lot of networks of support, obviously, raise and awful lot of money. And now its debates maybe answer some of those who kind of thought Biden, you know, would be sort of a savior for the Democrats.
RYAN LIZZA, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORKER: I agree with you there, Anderson. I think look, in all signs are that this campaign is getting off the ground. I have been talking to Democrats today. It is very hard to find Democrats in the outer circles of Biden world who think that he's not running.
Now, as Dana pointed out, he still may pull back at the last second and not pull the trigger, but all signs are that he's preparing to run.
I find it a little bit puzzling, I have to say, Anderson, politically hard to see what the lane is against Hillary Clinton, what's the sort of political case, the ideological case that he is going to make against her. I don't really see a lot of room to her left. I don't see how he's going to run to her right because, you know, that's not how you win a Democratic primary.
In terms of the coalition that you have to put together to beat Hillary Clinton of you want to reassemble the coalition that Barack Obama assembled in 2008 to beat her, that relies heavily on non-white voters. I don't see him breaking into those groups. And I have to say it's -- the final thing is it doesn't seem like there is an outpouring of Democratic establishment figures or politicians who are clamoring for Biden to get in the race. So I'm a little puzzled by why he is doing it, to be honest.
COOPER: Paul, do you see the lane he would take? I mean, the latest CNN/ORC poll, 18 percent of Democratic primary voters say they would back Biden. But if he officially got in the race, I guess there is a good chance his numbers could go up. You look at Bill Clinton back in 1991, he didn't join the race until October that year and his poll numbers were even lower than Biden's are now.
BEGALA: Absolutely. It was completely different race. There was no contested Iowa caucuses in 1992 because Tom Harkin, the senator from Iowa, is running. So the first contest was February 18th in 1992 in New Hampshire. So that was unusually late entry. This would be unusually late entry.
But I think Ryan has a good point about the lane. You know, Barack Obama, he entered earlier but caught fire very, very late. He was still in (INAUDIBLE) in October of 2007. But he had that issue of the war vote. Iraq war vote was for most Democrats the most important issue. Most Democrats thought Obama was right. Hillary was wrong. There is not an obvious issue distinction like that that I see right now between Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton. They are friends, they are allies, they work together in the Obama administration. It is a lot harder to see the point of departure in this contest.
LIZZA: The thing that could change that, of course, and maybe this is Joe Biden knows something that we all don't and clearly he does, but he met with Barack Obama for two hours today and came out and talked to the press and made a note of that to everyone. And what if Barack Obama weighed in and endorsed Joe Biden? That would be a way to put together a coalition that could beat Hillary Clinton.
HENDERSON: Or didn't weigh in and Biden was able to essentially insinuate that he is Barack Obama's guy because he has been Barack Obama's guy as vice president for these last many years. So I think, you know, that's kind of --
LIZZA: He's the heir to Obama.
COOPER: I mean, that would be a really fascinating development or as you said, just stay on the sidelines and that maybe even that will send a message. We will see.
Paul Begala, Nia-Malika Henderson, Ryan Lizza, always great to have you-all.
Just ahead, the truth behind a controversial undercover video targeting Planned Parenthood. Find out what the filmmaker now admits. We're Keeping Them Honest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:28:08] COOPER: There's new fallout tonight for this undercover videos released by an anti-abortion group. Texas officials said today they are cutting all Planned Parenthood clinic state-wide from the state's Medicaid program because of violations documented, they say, in those videos, one of which shot in a Texas clinic.
Planned Parenthood officials are blasting the decision saying that they have all along that the videos are heavily edited and they say misleading. The organization has been under fire since the videos began coming out last July.
Now, there has been a lot of finger pointing and claims about those videos so we put senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin on the case to try to find out which side is telling the truth. It is the story that hinges in part on disturbing images, there is no doubt about it. What you're about to see are some graphic images of one stillborn child and one dead or perhaps dying fetus. We're showing them because it's directly related to the controversy.
Drew Griffin tonight, Keeping Them Honest.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the videos that have engulfed Planned Parenthood into a funding controversy, undercover recordings by the Center for Medical Progress that appear to show Planned Parenthood medical executives and others bargaining, negotiating and discussing the best ways to collect and allegedly sell fatal tissue samples, even discussing the best techniques to extract intact fetuses for maximum use.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say anywhere from $3200 depending on the facility and what's involved.
GRIFFIN: It's the main point of these videos, but it is how these videos were edited, Planned Parenthood says, that is leading Planned Parenthood and its supports to discredit the entire production.
HOLLY O'DONNELL, HEALTH TECHNICIAN, STEMEXPRESS: I saw a message saying the doctor had Planned Parenthood aborted a fully intact fetus.
GRIFFIN: This woman, Holly O'Donnell is a young health technician who worked at a company called Stemexpress. Her job was to go to Planned Parenthood clinics in California to draw tissue samples out of tiny aborted fetuses. This is one of her stories as presented in the videos by the Center for Medical Progress.
O'DONNELL: I remember holding that fetus in my hands when everybody else was busy and started crying and opened the lid and put it back in.
GRIFFIN: But there is a problem, the baby Holly O'Donnell is talking about is not the baby shown in the video. The filmmaker pulled an image off the Internet.
FRETZ: Yes, he was very tiny. I could hold him in my hands. GRIFFIN: The baby is actually the stillborn not aborted son of Alexis
Fretz, stillborn, not aborted in 2013. Fretz opposes abortion. Posted the photo on the Internet of her son at 19 weeks gestation to memorialize him. She had no idea the photo would be inserted into a documentary to make a political point.
FRETZ: Was it clear? No, it was not clear. Was it being deceitful? I don't know. That's not my call. That's between him and the Lord.
GRIFFIN: David Daleiden is the him she is referring to, the self- proclaimed citizen journalist who sat down with CNN to say why he was using what's being called deceptive editing that has opened the door to controversy.
We hear Holly talking about holding this baby.
DAVID DALEIDEN: Holding a baby, yes, that was born alive in a Planned Parenthood clinic.
GRIFFIN: Is that this baby?
DALEIDEN: No, no, that's an illustration of the same age, same gestation age fetus.
GRIFFIN: The problem people are having this is not an aborted child and not the baby Holly is talking about, and that seems very -- that does seem very deceptive to me.
DALEIDEN: I don't see the deception, and frankly, I think it's kind of, I think it's kind of a controversy drummed up by the media.
GRIFFIN: So was it clear? No, it was not clear. This is the mother, this is the mother that took the photo. It was unclear to her.
DALEIDEN: This is a late second trimester intact fetus, which is exactly the kind of fetus Holly O'Donnell is describing holding.
GRIFFIN: Except this isn't that example. This is a stillborn child. And doesn't this leave the door wide open for the critics who you knew would come after you?
DALEIDEN: The only people that raised that criticism are first started with Planned Parenthood and their allies and some of the proabortion blogs, and then it migrated to some of the mainstream media outlets, but apart from that, no one else seems to be confused by it or deceived by it.
GRIFFIN: That is not true. The confusion of David Daleiden's sloppy edits had made its way into the Republican presidential race.
FIORINA: Watch a fully formed fetus on the table. Its heart beating. Its legs kicking.
GRIFFIN: In the second Republican debate, an impassioned Carly Fiorina made this attack on Planned Parenthood, siting this video clip of another baby in Daleiden's documentary, again with Holly O'Donnell providing the narration.
O'DONNELL: Its nose was very pronounced. It had eyelids. And its mouth was pronounced, and then since the fetus was so intact, she said okay, well, this is a really good fetus.
GRIFFIN: Horrific image. Not just an image, a video. Where did it come from?
DALEIDEN: That video is from an organization called the Center for Bioethical Reform. They are one of the largest repositories of abortion images and abortion videos in the world, I think --
GRIFFIN: So you don't know where that came from?
DALEIDEN: I don't know the exact clinic, no, the exact location. I don't know the exact location.
GRIFFIN: Or the date?
DALEIDEN: I don't know the exact location or the date. I know that's footage from CBR from their abortion images archive.
GRIFFIN: The Center for Bioethical Reform would not release any detailed information either. The center claims it was an aborted fetus and they paid for the video.
This is actually what Carly Fiorina was talking about, right? This is that video. But you can't tell me right now if this was even at a Planned Parenthood facility.
DALEIDEN: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's only there as an illustration of the sort of born alive late-term fetus Holly O'Donnell is talking about.
GRIFFIN: But you don't know where the baby was born. You don't know what date the baby was born. You don't know the particular clinic the baby was born, yet, this whole video production is talking about Planned Parenthood selling body parts, and, you know, abortions.
DALEIDEN: Right. Right. And that's -- this specific sequence right here with Holly O'Donnell is talking about an infant that was born alive in a Planned Parenthood clinic that they then harvested the brain from.
GRIFFIN: Only once again, not this baby.
Planned Parenthood has used controversial video edits to attack the entire production as being a fraud.
DAWN LAGUENS, PLANNED PARENTHOOD VP: All of the tape and footage that David Daleiden has released out into the world has been heavily edited and I think pretty thoroughly discredited.
GRIFFIN: Dawn Laguens is executive vice president at Planned Parenthood, and discrediting the misuse of video was easy. But we asked her about the other parts of the tape that do seem to show bargaining, negotiating, pricing and arranging the sales of body parts, like in this exchange where Planned Parenthood's Dr. Mary Gatter (ph) appears to be in the negotiation over the sale of fatal tissue samples.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I want to know is, what would work for you? Don't lowball it, tell me what you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $75 a specimen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's way too low.
GRIFFIN: That sounds like negotiating of prices. What is it?
LAGUENS: One, we don't know, because again, these tapes are extremely heavily edited.
GRIFFIN: That portion was not edited.
LAGUENS: Actually, let me just say, $75, this is a person, a doctor, a fabulous doctor who does great care for women, who wouldn't in an affiliate be the person anyway who would tell you what the reimbursement costs that were allowed under the law would be. She's somebody they got to come to lunch and they start asking her to guess about what would be a proper reimbursement. They --
GRIFFIN: She's a medical director for Planned Parenthood.
LAGUENS: But she doesn't know what the cost of FedEx would be. She's guessing, and she said I used to work somewhere else and it was another amount. So she's just trying to ask them what is it that you pay other people as an allowable amount under the law, because these people, were they real, would not be able to pay somebody more than the reimbursement costs allowed by the law.
GRIFFIN: That's important for Planned Parenthood to say because it's illegal to sell fetal tissue samples for profit.
CECILLE RICHARDS, CEO, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Absolutely does not reflect what's happening at Planned Parenthood.
GRIFFIN: Instead costs at the tiny fraction of clinics that do this are, according to Planned Parenthood, reimbursed.
Just to wrap it up so I'm perfectly clear, the position is there may be some money transferred, but you're saying that's to reimburse costs.
LAGUENS: Yes, which is allowed by the law and all that Planned Parenthood affiliates would ever desire.
GRIFFIN: And are those rates in any way negotiated by the individual clinics?
LAGUENS: They would be based on the actual individual and unique costs of the clinics, so there should be --
GRIFFIN: So the answer is yes.
LAGUENS: -- or could be a small amount of variation in the cost, but they would not be vast and they would be in certain categories.
DALEIDEN: They admit they are receiving payments for their fetal tissue.
GRIFFIN: David Daleiden says this is the undisputed point of his documentary, that Planned Parenthood sells baby parts. In order to put the controversy behind it, Planned Parenthood has announced it will no longer except any financial reimbursement for fetal tissue it now donates for research.
COOPER: Drew Griffin joins us now. Just to be clear, Planned Parenthood are still insisting their clinics did nothing wrong.
GRIFFIN: Planned Parenthood, Anderson, says that everything even supposedly caught on camera, even though they disagree with the editing, was all perfectly legal. They are saying no profits were made. According to Planned Parenthood, these payments at the tiny fraction of clinics that accepted payments were simply to recover costs. I do want to add the tissue samples will still be made available for scientific research. Researchers have been using fetal tissue cells to study various diseases like diabetes and muscular dystrophy.
COOPER: They keep saying the videos were heavily edited. Were they? Were they deceptively edited? Besides the insertion of pictures which were not necessarily from Planned Parenthood.
GRIFFIN: That's the only thing we found. Were these pictures that came out of nowhere that were dropped in. Congress supposedly now has the videos, Anderson, completely unedited, available for viewing, so members of Congress can decide for themselves. These videos were actually subpoenaed unedited by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Congressman Jason Chaffetz has set up a committee, he heads the committee, he's got a viewing room, and the Center for Medical Process insists these heavily edited arguments won't stand up if in fact members of Congress actually watch what they claim are now the unedited tapes.
COOPER: Drew, thanks very much.
The latest on reports that a high school student hacked the CIA chief's personal e-mail account, plus a loaded gun in a Chicago kitchen ends in tragedy. A 3-year-old shot to death by a 6-year-old brother. New details on how it happened and the charges the father is now facing.
[20:44:00] COOPER: Tonight the FBI and Secret Service are investigating reports that a high school student hacked into personal email accounts linked to two of the nation's top intelligence and security officials, CIA Director John Brennan and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson. New York Post interviewed the alleged hacker, who said he was motivated by politics and a desire to shame the U.S. government. Today CNN's Laurie Segal interviewed him. Justice reporter Evan Perez joins me now with the latest.
It's amazing to think the CIA director was hacked not by some foreign spy, but the guy the New York Post described as a teen stoner. What are you learning?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: This alleged hacker says he is in high school, but we're not sure that adds up, based on a couple of things he's told both Laurie Segal and Wes Brewer (ph), our producer here in Washington. Officials believe at least part of his story, though, and that is that he's part of a group, and he got access to some sensitive information, particularly from John Brennan's AOL account. In a series of tweets, he says the group stole Brennan's contact list and had access to Jeh Johnson's Comcast account. And one document he posted appears to be a list of members of the intelligence committee with security clearance, and another document he claims he stole is the government form that Brennan filled out in order to get his top secret security clearance, Anderson. Brennan would have provided this information while he was still a private citizen, before he took a job in the Obama administration.
COOPER: What exactly is the alleged hacker saying about his motivation?
PEREZ: Well, in his various conversations with us today, he said he was motivated by politics, and said they did this to protest U.S. foreign policy on Israel and Palestinians and on U.S. killing innocent people. We should mention that after the hacker chatted with CNN today, Twitter suspended the account he was using, Anderson.
COOPER: And he's promising to release sensitive information. Is any of it classified?
PEREZ: Not according to officials we've talked to. So far what they have seen is not classified. That doesn't mean it's not being taken very seriously, it is. Especially because some of this stuff is very sensitive. The SF86 form, the form that Brennan filled out, has some very sensitive information that he would have been -- that he would have used, and it causes a great deal of concern for officials.
COOPER: Thanks very much for the update. In Chicago, new details tonight in a story that is sadly familiar but no less heartbreaking this time. We've seen the script before, young children, a loaded gun, a split second that shatters a family forever. In this case, a 3-year-old boy is dead, his 6-year-old brother presumably traumatized, their father now facing felony charges. The entire family engulfed in grief. Lisa Flores has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ISRAEL LASALLE, GRANDFATHER: He had the face of an angel. He was a beautiful little kid.
LISA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sitting under the window of his grandson's apartment, all that consoles Israel Lasalle are his memories.
LASALLE: He had his little six-pack, his little muscles, and he would climb and he would holler at the people next door, and it was him in his underwear, and I'd say, hey, Tarzan is calling you guys.
FLORES: The proud grandfather was looking after the toddler and his 6-year-old brother Saturday night while their dad worked and their mom went to the store.
LASALLE: I was making some Kool-aid for him and all of a sudden I heard a loud pop like a shot.
FLORES: Police say the boys were playing cops and robbers when the 6- year-old grabbed a gun that was wrapped in pajama pants and stowed on top of the refrigerator. The gun went off, hitting the toddler in the head.
LASALLE: I grabbed him like this and I put his head up so he wouldn't bleed that much, because the whole side of the face was bloody and part of his hair.
FLORES: Clutch little Ian in his arms, the terrified grandfather took off running from his house to this emergency room just steps away, but the wound was too grave. Ian was pronounced dead. The boy's father, Michael Santiago, faces felony child endangerment charges, but those charges could grow. Police say during an interview, Santiago confessed to purchasing the weapon illegally from a gang member. A state attorney spokesperson adding that in a video statement, Santiago said he was a former gang member who snitched on a gang member in a murder trial and kept the gun for protection.
So tell me about the gun.
LASALLE: I didn't see it. I didn't see no gun or anything.
FLORES: The heartbroken grandfather says he didn't know Santiago kept a gun in the house, but according to the state attorney's office, Santiago told investigators about a week ago he showed the 6-year-old boy a gun and explained to him that it was only to be used by adults.
LASALLE: I want to get this out to everybody, wherever they are at, listening or watching, whatever it is, they need to keep weapons out of their house.
FLORES: This grieving grandfather who called little Ian Tarzan, wishes this whole tragedy was a work of fiction.
FLORES: Now police say that the charges that this father could face could grow because they are building a case against him because the weapon was purchased illegally. So Anderson, what they are doing is they are processing that weapon, trying to figure out how, where this weapon was purchased and also trying to figure out if it is connected to other crimes. Anderson.
COOPER: Horrible. Rosa Flores, thank you.
Up next, we have breaking news, Lamar Odom making more progress at a Vegas hospital. Could he actually be released soon? We'll have new details on that ahead.
COOPER: Former NBA star Lamar Odom is making progress in his recovery at a Vegas hospital. Paul Vercammen joins us from there with details. And a new report on what Odom did at a Nevada brothel where he was found unconscious six days ago, Paul?
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, some pictures have emerged, and they are from the London Daily Mail, the paper obtaining the pictures, and they show Odom in what appears to be the brothel, which is some 80 miles northwest of Las Vegas. But back here on the Odom recovery front, things do seem to be going better for Lamar Odom.
VERCAMMEN: Sources tell CNN indications are Lamar Odom is getting closer to leaving Las Vegas to recover in Los Angeles, and the Los Angeles Daily News, citing multiple sources familiar with the situation, says Odom has started physical therapy. He's showing marked improvement with his breathing, vision, and the ability to have simple conversations. Odom is slated to begin physical therapy that will show whether the 35-year-old former basketball player can walk. Odom wound up here at at the intensive care unit at Sunrise Hospital after being found unconscious and vomiting pink fluids at a desolate brothel last Tuesday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone came up to me and said he had some cocaine on him, he did it on Saturday.
VERCAMMEN: Both 911 calls and sheriff's comments revealed Odom may have used cocaine before heading to the Love Ranch, and may have taken as many as ten reload sexual enhancement pills. Over the four days at the ranch, he spent $75,000, the brother's owner said on two women.
Jim Harrick, one of Odom's mentors and former coach at Rhode Island, has stayed in contact with Odom's estranged wife, Khloe Kardashian. Harrick says doctors told Odom's family Lamar's heart would have stopped if he was not a professional athlete. Odom won two NBA championships with the Lakers, but perhaps reached greater fame or notoriety when he married into the three-ring multimedia extravaganza that is the Kardashian family.
LAMAR ODOM: I want to hang out forever. I want to get married right now.
VERCAMMEN: And with all things Kardashian, posts of Odom's brothel collapse got so blown up online, it was difficult separating fact from fiction. But the fact is, Odom is getting better and might soon be leaving Las Vegas.
COOPER: Paul, you spoke with someone whose wife is on the same ICU floor as Odom. What sort of a scene did he describe when he arrived?
VERCAMMEN: He caused a rather large disturbance. They said they gave a warning a celeBrity was coming in, a lot of noise, a lot of racket and entourage, and the man George Cooper said there was a lockdown for two to three hours and he was kept captive in his wife's room, Anderson.
COOPER: Paul, appreciate the update.
There is much more ahead in our second hour. We are live through the next hour. Donald Trump in South Carolina touting new poll numbers. What they show after this.
COOPER: Thanks for joining us for another live hour of 360. We begin this hour in South Carolina where Trump is stumping, touting his latest poll numbers, railing on the media and his opponents, and promising to bring down taxes and make America great again.