Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump Campaigning in South Carolina; Trump, Jeb Bush Spar Over 9/11 Attacks; Clinton To Testify Before Committee Thursday; Insure Europe's Refugee Crisis; New Wave of Terror Puts Israel on Edge; New Details on Lamar Odom's Condition. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 19, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for joining us for another live hour of 360. We begin this hour in South Carolina where Trump is stumping, touting his latest poll numbers, railing on the media and his opponents, and promising to bring down taxes and make America great again.
[21:00:03] Lots of people are buying what he is talking about. The poll numbers again are proving that and you see NBC -- excuse me, NBC Wall Street Journal poll shows Trump with his highest level of support yet, 25 percent, Ben Carson is essentially tied for first at 22 percent, which is within the margin of error. Marco Rubio is in third, he has 13 percent with the rest of field in the single digits. Trump spoke tonight at a civic center in Anderson, South Carolina. Our political reporter, Sara Murray is there, she joins me now. What was the atmosphere like of the event?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, I think it was a pretty fired up atmosphere. There were thousands of people who were crammed into this arena a little bit earlier. I think the interesting thing about Donald Trump's crowds and sort of the thing we've been trying to figure out is how many of these people who show up are Trump fans, solid Trump's voters? How many are just checking him out or checking out the celebrity? And I talked to a number of voters here today who were doing just that. They were either supporting democrats or supporting or other republicans in the race. But they want to just see what all the fuss is about. They wanted to see Donald Trump in person. Now like you said, he still leads in the polls, so that's definitely giving us an idea of how he's able to draw so many people and people would be happy to have just a couple hundred voters Anderson.
COOPER: Did Trump talk about his I guess, feud, you could call it with Jeb Bush, his comments about 9/11?
MURRAY: You know, Trump usually does not shy away from a controversy, but when it comes to his 9/11 comments essentially suggesting that George W. Bush was to blame because he was present at the time, Trump made no comment of that here tonight and what was a rare move for him is the number of reporters actually followed him out of the event, were shouting questions at him, trying to get him to address this issue. And he dodged them and as we all know, Donald Trump is not a guy who is camera shy in any way. So this is sort of a strange move for him.
And look Anderson, a number of voters that I talked to here were not particularly happy to see Trump going after George W. Bush about that. They said that it was no one's fault and if there was nothing they felt like the former president could have done to prevent this.
COOPER: All right, Sara Murray thanks.
As Trump is something, there is something happening on Twitter and on the weekend political talk shows, a feud as we mentioned with Jeb Bush (inaudible) over the darkest days of recent American history with Donald Trump pointing fingers and Bush defending his brother. Our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: A political duel about America's catastrophe on 9/11/2001 playing out in a very 2016 way, on Twitter. Donald Trump tweeting today at Jeb Bush, "I'm fighting to make sure it doesn't happen again. Jeb is too soft." That after Bush had tweeted, "Donald Trump talks about foreign policy as though he's still on The Apprentice."
At issue, Trump's suggestions that Jeb's brother, George W. Bush, could have done more as president to prevent the September 11 terror attacks.
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't blame him or don't blame him, but he was president. The World Trade Center came down during his reigns.
BASH: It's a delay Trump response to one of Jeb Bush's most passionate moments at CNN's Debate last month.
TRUMP: It was such a disaster, those last three months that Abraham Lincoln couldn't have been elected.
JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what, as it relates to my brother, there's one thing I know for sure, he kept us safe. I don't know if you remember.
BASH: Trump is now even suggesting, he could have stopped the 9/11 hijackers from getting in to the U.S. in the first place.
TRUMP: I'm extremely tough when people coming into this country. I doubt that those people would have been in the country.
BASH: For the record, the 9/11 Commission said only two of the 19 hijackers overstayed their visas but others came the immigration system. The commission also said the attack was a shock but should not have come as a surprise.
J. BUSH: There was a...
BASH: Still, Jeb Bush's campaign thinks Trump's latest threat handed them a winning issue. J. BUSH: Next week, Mr. Trump is probably going to say that FDR was
around when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. It's what you do after that matters and that's the sign of leadership.
BASH: Jeb Bush's aides knew his brother's legacy would be a challenge, especially Jeb Bush's position on the Iraq war, but he bungled early on, but 9/11?
FMR. PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I can hear you.
BASH: This was not something Team Bush ever dreamed would be relitigated, but they're happy to do so using it to broaden criticism of Trump as commander-in-chief.
J. BUSH: It looks as though he is not taking the possibility of being president of the United States really seriously.
BASH: The Bush campaign is even asking for donations with this e-mail saying, "Donate $5 and fight back against Donald Trump." Dana Bash, CNN Washington.
COOPER: Ari Fleischer's was the White House press secretary when the 9/11 attacks happened. He joins me along with CNN national security house Peter Bergen, author of "Manhunt: The Ten-Year Search for Bin Laden".
So Peter, you, like Peter Beinhart, who I spoke to in the last hour say, it actually is Donald Trump who's in the right here. Explain why you say that.
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, he's certainly in the right with the notion that President Bush and his senior advisers could have done more in the summer of 2001. You know, Anderson in the nine months that they were in office, they only had one cabinet meeting about Al-Qaeda and terrorism.
[21:05:00] They had 32 cabinet meetings about other issues and if you look on the public record, President Bush and Vice President Cheney never once mentioned Al-Qaeda or bin Laden in those nine months. And if they really thought it was a problem, they would have said so publicly. They would have had private meetings and they simply didn't.
And, you know, just for matter of public record that George W. Bush took the longest presidential vacation in more than three decades during the summer of 2001 despite the fact that the CIA was constantly warning of some kind of imminent potential attack.
COOPER: And in a column you just wrote for cnn.com, you go so far as to say that really the problem was, "the Bush administration's inability to comprehend that an attack by Al-Qaeda on the United States was a real possibility."
BERGEN: You know, I mean, they were preoccupied by state-based threats, so that's why there -- if you go back to that time actually you may recall, there was a lot of discussion of having proper anti- ballistic missile defense. Well of course, that's good if we're going to be attacked by China, Russia or Iraq, but it's completely useless against terrorists.
COOPER: Ari, how do you respond to that? I mean, is it fair to point out as Peter does, that the president, the vice president didn't talk about Al-Qaeda previously?
ARI FLEISCHER, FORMER W.H. PRESS SECRETARY FOR PRES. G.W. BUSH: Let me just for argument's sake grant his argument, his logic, none of what he said would have stopped 9/11 from taking place. And that's what Donald Trump suggested, it was George Bush's fault that 9/11 took place on his watch. And that nobody concluded that. Not even the 9/11 Commission would have access to all the intelligence classified information concluded that.
But what's so troubling what with Donald Trump is saying is when America is attacked like that, the terrorists are the ones to blame, not the Americans. And this is where Trump's logic would say Bill Clinton is to blame four times for the attacks that took place in the United States in the '90s, or Ronald Reagan is to blame for the terrorist attack in our embassy in Beirut, the marine barracks in Beirut, or FDR is to blame for Pearl Harbor. We are in a long war against terrorism. And one way you win the war against terrorists is by focusing on the people who commit the attacks against us, not turning against each other.
COOPER: Peter, I want you to be able to respond to that, because I mean also in your column, you pointed out the most important piece of intelligence, the where, the when of the 9/11 attacks, that was not known.
BERGEN: Right, sure. But the point if -- there's a point of comparison that was useful here with the Clinton administration. You may recall during the millennium that there was a great concern that there would be an attack, a terrorist attack in the United States. Sandy Berger who was in the national security advisers convened meetings of national security council on a daily basis in the two-week period during that time period.
Condoleezza Rice who was Bush's national security adviser at the time did absolutely nothing to pulse the national security community about the threats that were out, the potential threats that were out there. Those, if the national community had been pulsed, maybe it's accurate (inaudible) and Al-Qaeda recruit who is in prison in Minnesota who was trying to fly a 747, and that might have been picked up. And there's a lot of might-have-beens. And I mean I agree with Ari overall, but we don't know, but we do know for a fact that the Bush administration was basically turned -- was very unconcerned about this matter, both in their public and private statements in their and in their actions. And that's...
FLEISCHER: The problem I have here is this is with hindsight misreading what actually took place in the summer of 2001. In the summer of 2001, the system was blinking red about terrorist attacks to our embassies overseas, which didn't get the attention of everybody in the administration that led to the closure of embassies aboard and led to the increased security measures to protect their embassies abroad. And nothing happened in that summer of 2001. And in large part you could argue because either the intelligence was wrong or because the protective measures that we took.
Then you have the issue of the presidential daily brief that said Bin Laden determined to attack in the United States, which opponents of Bush have used to say, aha, you see, he knew. The issue here was like anybody has ever worked with intelligence, it could maddeningly frustrating because it doesn't say where, it doesn't say when, it doesn't say how. And the context of those briefings was entirely about Arab terrorists, Muslim terrorists hijacking aircraft, hasn't been done for decades to negotiate ransoms in a traditional hijacking sense. That was the intelligence information that we had from the CIA that people said shows that Bush should have known.
COOPER: I mean Ari, Donald Trump is saying that if he were president in 2001, his tougher immigration policies would have prevented the hijackers from even being able to enter the country, I mean, they were in this country for a while.
FLEISCHER: Well, let's grant Donald Trump that he builds a wall in Mexico and Mexico pays for it, would Donald Trump then say that no Muslims are allowed to fly in the United States? If this is Donald Trump's immigration policy, that if you're from an Arab nation, you are not allowed to board a jet and fly to America?
I mean, this is what you would have to believe in order for you to think Donald Trump could have stopped anything. The other issue that is a legitimate issue and it was changed as a result of the patriot act and other laws after 9/11 was the FBI and the CIA you recall were not allowed to talk to each other, which was one of the forms of the post-'70s era. And that was indeed a problem that everybody recognize post 9/11. Now, the CIA and the FBI are allowed to share information.
[21:10:00] COOPER: Peter, you're -- you still believe though kind of had Condoleezza Rice or others kind of shaken the trees, something might have popped up?
BERGEN: Well indeed, I mean there was two Al-Qaeda recruits in the United States who turned out to be two of the hijackers, which was known to the CIA and known he bearably given that information to the FBI. And I will say that I spoke to the person who wrote that presidential daily brief, her name is Barbara Sude, a veteran CIA analyst. And she said the intent of that was very much to say, hey there is a strong possibility that Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda will attack the United States and in that daily brief, there was information about some FBI investigations that were going on domestically in the United States.
So again, you know, Ari and I are not completely disagreeing. It's a matter nuance, but the fact is that the Bush administration didn't really see this coming in any shape or form. They were very preoccupied. The -- by the way the very first cabinet meeting that the Bush administration had when I came into office was about Iraq. And that shows where the priorities were. It took them 32 more meetings to finally get through the Al-Qaeda meeting which tool place only a week before 9/11. Again...
FLEISCHER: Let's also remember Iraq was shooting at the United States aircraft and forcing the no fly zone on behalf of the entire western world. There was a somewhat of a shooting war going on that should have taken the attention of the administration. It was nothing to do with what happened in 2003 with Iraq but in 2001, our air force was being fired on, on a regular basis by the Iraqis.
BERGEN: Three months earlier, Al-Qaeda bombers blew out an American ship killing 17 American soldiers. That's a real shooting war, that happened on October 12, that's before the Bush administration...
FLEISCHER: In the year 2000. Yeah, correct (inaudible) Bush coming in to the office.
BERGEN: Right. So Al-Qaeda was already a -- clearly a serious threat.
BERGEN: Iraq as we know, wasn't. So anyway, I mean, you know, historians will continue to judge this issue but I think Donald Trump has put that into the public domain. It's a debate worth having. And...
COOPER: Ari, let me ask you the politics of this. I mean, does it benefit Jeb Bush to go to bet for his brother like this? Do you think it benefits Donald Trump to try to link Jeb Bush to his brother?
FLEISCHER: Well, first of all, every attempt to catalog the politics of anything involving Donald Trump is proved to be wrong. Donald Trump has this interesting and odd ability to be impervious for all normal politics. My sense of it here though is that it is not a smart thing in a republican primary to attack somebody who was very popular among republican primary voters, George W. Bush. And the reason he's very popular is because he kept us safe after 9/11. So he has really picked I think an odd fight to make inside a republican primary. And that might be one of the reasons he walked away from reporters today and went and file along what he typically would have.
COOPER: Ari Fleischer and Peter Bergen good discussion, appreciate it. Both of you, thank you. You can hear the latest on what Trump has to say when he's a guest on "New Day" tomorrow, that's at 6: 00 a.m. here on CNN.
Hillary Clinton testifies before the house of Benghazi committee this week, but is that panel committed to finding out the truth about the deadly attacks? Or is it political sham determines or hurt the Clinton campaign? We'll take a look at that next.
Also ahead, hundreds of thousands of people fleeing violence of poverty in the mid east further risking their lives to go to Europe. (inaudible) a closer look of what they are going through. I speak with refugees and migrants how made it to Greece in a report I just did for "60 minutes" coming up.
[21:16:52] COOPER: In just a few days, Hillary Clinton will testify before Congress about the 2012 attack in Benghazi, Libya, an attack that left four Americans dead and opened up a can of political worms that no one could have predicted at the time. Clinton's Thursday appearance before the House Select Committee on Benghazi comes at a time when there are serious accusations about the committee's intentions, whether it wants the truth or to take down Clinton's presidential campaign. On Face of the Nation, John Dickerson asked the committee chairman republican Trey Gowdy what he wants to know from Clinton when she testifies?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TREY GOWDY, (R) CHAIRMAN HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON BENGHAZI: What I want to know is while violence was going up in Libya, why was our security profile going down? It wasn't even staying the same. It was going down. I want to know why certain things made it to your inbox madam secretary, but the plaintiff pleadings of our own ambassador that you put in place for more security never bothered to make it to your inbox. I think that's a fair question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Dickerson also spoke at the top democrat of the committee, Elijah Cummings. He asked Cummings whether this is a political and if Clinton's out coming appearance is a sham.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (D) HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON BEGNHAZI: I think it's a sad day for all of us because we made a commitment to the families. The families came in with tears in their eyes literally. And said, "Please do not make this a political football," that's exactly what's happened. It has -- they said find out more information about what did happen and then, they asked us to do one other thing and that is try to make sure you figure out how this does not happen again and I think we failed in all three.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: With me again, CNN political commentator and democratic strategist Paul Begala, co-chair of a pro-Hillary Clinton Super PAC, obviously a long time adviser to President Bill Clinton in the '90s. And joining me CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord.
Paul, in recent interviews, you know, Chairman Gowdy, saying that Thursday's hearing would be "Banghazi-centric", it will be about the facts that his approach of the hearing may "shock you with fairness", do you take him at his word with this or... PAUL BEGALA, CO-CHAIR, PRO HILLARY CLINTON SUPERPAC: No.
COOPER: You don't?
BEGALA: No. I take him at his word when he told Chris Wallace of Fox News that when Chris asked him, what does all these e-mails stuff you're focused on have to do with what happened to Benghazi? He said, not much of anything. I take care of McCarthy, his word, when he brags that this was political. I certainly take that air force major who was an investigator on the committee and says it's a partisan witch hunt. And now, this is my favorite thing, now Trey Gowdy is giving interviews where he says, "these have been the worst few weeks of my life," like a poor little baby, like using taxpayers' money to hound and harass public servants and to politicize the murder of four Americans. That's somehow hurts his feelings so...
COOPER: So Paul, I mean, there is an FBI investigation going underway and I mean, as I said to the secretary during the debate, I mean, President's Clinton himself said this is a legitimate issue -- President Obama.
BEGALA: So why are the republicans politicizing it? If they had a lick of sense, they would allow the legitimate investigations to go forth or they would look at the seven previous investigations, most of them done by Congress, one of them done by an independent review board that Secretary Clinton herself setup, which had some scathing assessments of changes that needed to be made, 29 assessments in that accountability review board, 29 criticisms, all of which Hillary then adopted. But there have been tough investigations of this and this is pure politics as even the people on the committee are admitting. I mean, I don't know how much more proof we need that this is not on the level.
[21:20:10] COOPER: Jeff, is this pure politics?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN W.H. POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yeah, I mean, what's pure politics is what you're hearing from Paul. If he want to think this is -- if you want to know if this is fair, I will take the word of Cheryl Mills who was Secretary Clinton's Chief of Staff who apparently told Congressman Gowdy that she was treated very fairly. So I'm more than happy to take Cheryl Mills word on this.
But what's going on here, this is what the Clintons, singular and plural do all the time. What they're trying to do here is make Trey Gowdy into (inaudible) star, is to aggressively go out, you know, out of their way to delegitimize Trey Gowdy, the committee. This is how they play politics. This is what they do and I might add when we were in the Regan administration, we had the Iran contra-business going on. We were not out there slamming a special prosecutor, we were not out there going after people like this. This is something that's unique to the Clintons. This is what they do. They're doing it here again. They've already got apparently a YouTube commercial video ready to go to defend her. You know, all we want is the truth here, just the facts, ma'am, from that old television series and that's it. And I think Trey Gowdy is uniquely situated to get them, that's what he is about.
BEGALA: Oh, it's not just YouTube, it's a paid ad from my Super PAC and we're going to broadcast that and I hope you watch it. I hope everyone will see.
LORD: Well there you go, Paul.
BEGALA: He has a right...
LORD: I appreciate it...
BEGALA: I rest my case.
COOPER: One at a time, let Paul answer.
BEGALA: No, no wait a minute, Jeffrey. She has a right to defense and I'm going to help to provide it. This is not on the level. I'm not making the charges, by the way. I'm repeating what the house majority leader said, what the chairman of the committee said, what an investigator on the committee. I didn't get to Congressman Hanna of New York, another republican congressman, who has admitted that this is a partisan investigation. Those are all republicans who are doing this and they're admitting it. So forgive me for actually for once believing republicans are telling the truth when they say this is partisan.
COOPER: Jeff I mean how about -- there have been seven previous investigations into what happened in Benghazi. This is the eighth. The people say what will this investigation find that the other previous -- and what was wrong with the other previous seven?
LORD: Sure, sure Anderson, because the others were not conducted by select committees of the house and as we well know in the world of Washington and I realize this is sort of in the weeds for a lot of folks, but other committees, standing committees of the house or the senate for that matter have multiple responsibilities. When you create a select committee like this, it is their job to focus on one subject and one subject only, in this case Benghazi. That's the way for instance you to get to a point where as Congressman Gowdy was saying that, Ambassador Stevens' e-mails weren't even looked at by people in the other seven investigations. That's going to be done here. That's new. So we're going to see what other new facts are going to be uncovered. And to be very candid here, either Congressman Gowdy is going to get this done or not. And new facts will emerge. If it doesn't, then this will fall of its own weight.
COOPER: All right.
LORD: But we need to know the truth. Those four Americans deserve that.
COOPER: All right, Jeffrey Lord, Paul Begala thank you. We'll be covering it.
Just ahead, inside Europe's refugee and migrant crisis, you've heard about the flood of people seeking safety and new lives, many of them from Syria. Tonight, we take you inside the dangerous and uncertain journey.
[21:27:19] COOPER: Tonight, one of the worst refugee and migrant crises in Europe since World War II is deepening. Some 10,000 migrants and refugees are stranded in Serbia facing shortages of aid and shelter. A bottleneck caused by country's farther west tightening boarder restrictions. Officials with U.N. refugee agency are calling the situation desperate, not to mention winter is approaching. With that backdrop, tonight we're bringing you a report I just filed for CBS's "60 minutes." Hundreds of thousands of people fleeing war of poverty in the Mid East have been risking their lives to seek asylum in Europe. They've been doing it for months. Most come from Syria and hope to make it to Germany with its booming economy and promise of jobs.
Last month, German Chancellor, Angela Merkel surprised the world announcing that her country would not stop anyone from seeking asylum. After that, the number of asylum seekers doubled, then tripled. How is Europe dealing with this wave of desperate people? Well to find out, we started where most of the new arrivals first set foot in Europe, the small Greek island of Lesbos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: They begin to arrive in the delicate light of dawn, war weary and desperate, packed into rubber boats, never meant to cross such a sea. The boats are supposed to hold just 12, but 40 to 50 men, women and children are squeezed on board. Most have traveled for days or weeks from Syria, Iraq, or Afghanistan just to reach the Turkish coast. Then, for the six-mile journey across the Aegean Sea, they paid Turkish smugglers a small fortune, as much as $1500 a piece. Half price for kids.
When they finally land on Lesbos scared, exhausted, many have no idea where they are. We noticed one of the first things they do is unwrap cellphones protected in plastic. They want to call their relatives to let them know they didn't drown. Achmed Dosum and his wife and son left Syria just six days ago. Where are you hoping to go?
ACHMED DOSUM: Germany.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His nephew is there.
COOPER: So this is your son? You hope he gets a new life in Germany? DOSUM: (Foreign Language)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hope a better life for him, and to never suffer like his father. All his marks are from the bomb.
DOSUM: (Foreign Language)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The barrel.
COOPER: Barrel bomb. So you feel safe now?
DOSUM: (Foreign Language).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks to God. He just kissed the ground.
[21:30:15] COOPER: In the hour-and-a-half we were on this stony stretch of beach, 15 dinghies arrived. And elsewhere on the island, there were plenty more. Some 4,000 people land here each day. Nearly three-quarters are Syrian, and they don't stay on the beach very long.
KIRK DAY, EMERGENCY FIELD DIRECTOR FOR THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE ON LESBOS: They have an internal clock. And they are desperate to get to Europe as quickly as possible.
COOPER: Kirk Day is the emergency field director for the International Rescue Committee on Lesbos.
DAY: What they leave behind first and foremost is the lifejackets.
COOPER: I mean, this is the kind of thing a child is -- you know, wears in a swimming pool. It's not what you wear crossing an ocean.
DAY: No, and it says right here, "Not for use in boating." And I think our main concern is that you're going to continue to have high numbers of refugees coming. And I think unfortunately, what we're going to have is more capsized boats and more drownings because this is not going to save anyone's life.
COOPER: While we were on Lesbos, four people who drowned and washed ashore were buried. No one knew their names. More than 3,000 people have drowned trying to reach Europe so far this year. Engines often fail and overcrowded boats capsize. That's how this 3-year-old Syrian boy, Aylan Kurdi, drowned in September. After these photographs of his body on a Turkish beach were seen around the world, volunteers started showing up on Lesbos to help new arrivals make it onshore. But for months, it's been private aid groups like the International Rescue Committee, doing what the Greek government, hobbled by its own economic crisis, was not able to do.
COOPER: Governments aren't giving you any help?
DAY: No. It's as if there's been an attrition strategy put in place. Make it as difficult for people to come. Make them risk their lives. Make them live in unsanitary conditions and fewer and fewer people will come. And nothing could be farther from the truth.
COOPER: Who are the people who are coming?
DAY: In the beginning it was mostly Syrians. And mostly they were men and everybody was saying, "They're all young men, they're all young men. Where's the families?" Over the course of the past three months, you've had a higher percentage of women and children come. Male members of families went first to see that it was safe and to get settled into Europe and then are calling for their families to come.
COOPER: Syrians and others have to get fingerprinted and registered before they can leave Lesbos. The process used to take up to a week. Now, it's so fast that when we went to the port where a ferry departs daily for Athens, we were surprised to see Ahmed Dosum and his little boy. Just 10 hours after arriving on the island, they had their ferry tickets and were ready to leave.
So you got registered? Oh, you got the ticket.
Their journey won't be easy. The route to Germany keeps changing as borders open and close along the way and greater controls are put in place. From Greece, most now travel through Macedonia then Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, then on through Austria.
At Austria's border with Germany, we found hundreds sleeping in tents waiting to be allowed to cross. German authorities had just slowed down the entrance process. Only a handful at a time were being allowed in.
Not far away, at Salzburg's central train station, hundreds more were waiting in an underground garage.
HEINZ SCHADEN, MAYOR OF SALZBURG: The maximum capacity here in this shelter is 800 but we've had nights where we've had 1,300 here.
COOPER: Heinz Schaden is mayor of Salzburg. He has no idea each day how many people he will have to find shelter for.
Do you get advanced notice when Germany decides to slow the number of people coming through?
SCHADEN: I don't get advanced notice but I notice right away.
COOPER: Can you even imagine what would happen if Germany closed its borders?
SCHADEN: I don't want to imagine that, because then we have a situation which will be a humanitarian catastrophe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Just in a moment we'll have part two of my report.
So many people have travel so far, risk so much and what awaits those who finally make it to Germany? Find out ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [21:38:34] COOPER: More than 600,000 asylum seekers are crossed by boat into Europe this year, many of them hoping to reach Germany. Germany is expecting 1 million applications this year and has a backlog of more 260,000 cases, which helps explain why Salzburg, Austria just over the border is feeling squeezed.
Here's part two of the report I filed for CBS's "60 Minutes".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you get advanced notice when Germany decides to slow the number of people coming through?
SCHADEN: I don't get advanced notice but I notice right away.
COOPER: Can you even imagine what would happen if Germany closed its borders?
SCHADEN: I don't want to imagine that, because then we have a situation which will be a humanitarian catastrophe.
COOPER: Do you worry about security? Do you really know who a lot of these people are, where they're really from?
SCHADEN: I'm not worried about security. If a terrorist really wants to come to our country or to Germany or anywhere in Europe, they find their ways. They don't need the refugees and they certainly do not march along with the refugees all the way from Turkey through Southern Europe.
COOPER: When a train for Germany is expected many who've waited for days, rush to line up, hoping their chance has finally come. But while we were there just one train left Salzburg for Germany. On board we found Mohammad Pathlavay and his mother. They left Baghdad two weeks ago.
Do you know much about Germany?
[21:40:09] MOHAMMAD PATHLAVAY: Germany? Not that much, no.
COOPER: What do you think it's going to be like?
PATHLAVAY: I think better than anything.
COOPER: Better than anything. What are you most looking forward to?
PATHLAVAY: I just want to have a good life, like, with my mother in peace.
COOPER: It was Oktoberfest when we got to Munich. There was music and bratwurst and plenty of beer. A culture shock for anyone, but for Muslims from a war zone it must seem especially strange.
Do they have a real sense of what life in Germany is going to be like?
KATHARINA EL MASRI, SAVE ME MUNICH: I often hear Germany is a jannah. And a jannah is an Arabic word for paradise. And, obviously, that is not the case, you know...
COOPER: The streets are paved with gold.
EL MASRI: Yeah.
COOPER: Katharina El Masri runs Save Me Munich which helps new arrivals learn to adjust to life in Germany.
They think it'll be easy to find a job, find housing, get...
EL MASRI: Sure, sure. But the relatives who are already in Germany, you know, they would call home and tell them, "Oh, it is amazing here. You know, I'm having a good life, I'm very successful." Obviously, in most cases, that is not true.
COOPER: More than 500,000 new arrivals have already crossed into Germany in the last nine months. The German government expects half a million more by the end of the year. They're placed in shelters throughout the country where they have to wait for months to be granted asylum. If they are, they get free language classes, full government benefits and can start looking for a job
What are the biggest challenges?
EL MASRI: The biggest challenge definitely is to find housing. At the moment we're having such a huge influx that the community shelters are completely overcrowded, you know? People are sharing rooms with five, six, seven other men, you know? There is no space for privacy.
COOPER: In Berlin, fights have erupted as frustrated asylum seekers wait days in lines in order to register. And smaller cities are struggling to find shelter for so many people. Wolfgang Panzer, the mayor of Unterhaching, a town of 24,000, has been told to expect at least 1,000 new arrivals. He says he welcomes them but for now can only put them in temporary shelters like this.
So do you have other spaces, if more people come?
WOLFGANG PANZER, MAYOR OF UNTERHACHING: No, that's our problem, we have no spaces.
COOPER: Is Germany being asked to do too much compared to the rest of Europe?
PANZER: From my point of view yes, especially when it comes to the amount of people. What our government did is what led to all these masses coming to us.
COOPER: Many Germans now agree. Chancellor Angela Merkel's approval rating has dropped, and while Germany, with its aging population, needs new workers, absorbing so many so fast is a $6 billion burden with no end in sight.
A lot of people don't want them here.
EL MASRI: They would say, "We have take them in, we have to integrate them. But please not in my neighborhood, you know?" And that is not because these people are racists. This is often that idea stems from the fear of the unknown, you know?
COOPER: One of the Syrians Katharina El Masri is trying to help is Bassam al-Tarifi, a doctor who has been in a shelter in Munich since August. He gets about $160 a month from the German government. It will take him months to get asylum. And it could take him more than a year to be allowed to bring his wife and five daughters from Turkey.
It is much harder than you had realized.
DR. BASSAM AL-TARIFI: When it became a year, year-and-a-half, that was something I did not expect at all.
COOPER: Dr. Bassam is desperately lonely, but won't allow his family to take the dangerous journey by boat as he did.
AL-TARIFI: I might risk my own life for my children, but there's no way I could risk any of their lives.
COOPER: The number of new arrivals may drop in the next few months because crossing by sea in winter is especially dangerous. But come spring, a new wave of asylum seekers is once again expected to wash up on Lesbos' shores.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And there is no end insight.
Up next, Israel on edge after a string of attacks. The latest leading to fears of even more violence, we'll get the latest from the live report from Jerusalem.
[21:48:46] COOPER: Israel is on edge after another violent attack over the weekend and it is really soldier was shut and killed and about 10 other people were wounded when a gunman opened fire at a bus station in Southern Israel. The attacker was killed and what followed was sheer panic. These images from a security camera showing people running from the scene and the chaos, a horrifying case of mistaken identity.
A security guard thought he saw a second would-be terrorist. The crowd gripped by fear and rage kicked the innocent man who later died at a hospital.
Ben Wedeman joins us from Jerusalem with more obviously a tense situation for weeks now. What's the latest Ben, tonight?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest actually Anderson is that for more than 24 hours, there has been no attack and these days, you take everyday at a time. That's now indication that the troubles are over but perhaps that there's a lull.
Now, the leaders on both sides really continue to play this blame game for what's going on but the fact of the matter is that this phenomenon of lone wolf attacks has both sides stumped worried that elements are at play that no one has any control of.
People who decide to go and launch these attacks not under the orders of Hamas or Islamic Jihad or anybody else but it seem so -- it seems to be something that has the security services stumped, as well as the political leaders.
[21:50:09] COOPER: And Israeli officials are encouraging citizens with gun licenses to carry guns with them. How difficult is it to get a gun license in Israel?
WEDEMAN: It's more difficult than in the United States. You have to apply for a license and you have to prove that you have a need to have a weapon. It's, for some reason, you need to protect yourself.
And then you have to go through a training course and you have to renew your license every year which involves training. So it's not as loose as the United States. But the end result is that lots of people already have guns and many more are applying for guns and the worry is that the atmosphere is such that people are a little loose on the trigger.
Now, the incident in Beersheba, which was the last one, the one you referred to in your introduction, that was the air trainman was shot by a security guard. So we haven't had an incident where somebody just happens to have a gun and shoots somebody, but the atmosphere is so charged that the worry is that that could very well happen soon.
COOPER: I mean, you've obviously, like Ben, spent a lot of time there over the years, you've been witness to a lot of serious conflicts there. How does this situation feel compared to others?
WEDEMAN: This is somewhat reminiscent of the second in De Fadda in terms of just the anger and the hatred between the two sides. Certainly the residual goodwill that existed from the 1990s following the signing of the Oslo Peace Accords, that's well gone. And you have now a generation, a younger generation on the Israeli side and the Palestinian side, all they can recall is violence. And it's created a very dark atmosphere, the likes of which I haven't seen in years, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Ben, be careful. Thank you Ben.
Up next, we have breaking news. New images of Lamar Odom reportedly inside that brothel where he was found unconscious and some encouraging news tonight about his recovery.
Plus I'll speak with Dr. Drew about Odom's best shot for getting better.
[21:56:35] COOPER: Breaking news tonight on Lamar Odom, the "Daily Mail" has obtained photos of the NBA and reality T.V. star. They reportedly show him in his room at a Nevada brothel. They say he's slumped in bed there. We don't know exactly who took them or when they were taken or how they got them.
Also, the "Los Angeles Daily News" is reporting that Odom has started physical therapy.
Meanwhile, sources tell CNN that he's getting closer leaving the Las Vegas hospital and will continue his recovery in Los Angeles.
Joining me, Addiction Medicine Specialist, Dr. Drew Pinsky host of "Dr. Drew" on HLN.
I talked to someone last week who knows Lamar Odom and knows him for a long time, who said he has a hard time saying no to people. How critical for somebody in recovery is it to be surrounded by the right people?
DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST "DR. DREW": Right. I saw that interview and I thought it was rather insightful that you really have to sometimes pull yourself out of the environment you're in and not go back until you have a secure base to operate from. So yeah, it's very important that he gets around people that are part of his recovery.
I've got a lot of people that do great when they're in recovery community, but as soon as they drift outside of it, they fall.
COOPER: And yet, you know, he decided to move to Las Vegas and again, somebody I talked to who knows him sort of scoffed when heard that Lamar Odom was moving to Vegas because he wanted to kind of change things up. I mean, Vegas isn't necessarily the kind of place you would think to go to get straight.
PINSKY: That's exactly right. They have actually a lot of good recovery in that town, but it's not basically kind of straight. If you're making a move, I'm not sure that's the direction you go, but it really is interesting.
As you -- as I'm just thinking about it, I'm thinking of my patients that have had difficulty, you know, staying sober unless they stayed connected with the community and they're oftentimes some of the nicest, most gentle, lovely people I've taken care of. Those are the ones that are their worst enemies sometimes because everyone loves them, everyone's going to do well and of course that allows them to manipulate and get away, and, you know, we wish they were doing well, but they don't.
COOPER: And whether -- I mean, is it good for people to try to maintain the relationships that have been healthy for them and clearly, Khloe Kardashian has been by -- apparently by his bedside. What do you do with somebody who had a relationship whether you've broken up with? How does that...
PINSKY: It's all different. But I'll tell you what, you know, I don't know if you saw that article, a news at "The Daily News" was it yesterday, a couple days ago, they were taking after the Kardashians or somebody was reporting, you know, that Kardashians are responsible for Lamar Odom's condition. That's nonsense. That is nonsense. I mean, people -- he's a big boy. He's made some choices and maybe it
didn't help his recovery, but addicts -- the stories are all different, but addicts are addicts and they need to be responsible for their recovery. And the people around them aren't responsible for them.
Now, to the extent that people around them can do something, there's only so much you can do. You can't force somebody to be -- to participate in treatment. You first undergo to treatment but getting them to participate is very difficult.
COOPER: Is being a celebrity, being in the spotlight, being somebody that people recognize, does it -- can it help him recover or does it make it harder that people are kind of watching them all the time saying, oh look, you know, this person is at a bar, or this person is...
PINSKY: Sure, and it's obviously there's more shame if you're public about it, right? They carry that weight but more than anything, and this is what people don't understand, the most difficult time I had treating celebrities was that they wanted to return to work prematurely.
I get Robert Downey story is most characteristic of this. Remember he went to treatment, he went back to work. He relapsed, go on treatment, repeatedly, back to work, relapse, back to work. And then he disappeared for years and contemplated, didn't even discuss whether he'd ever work again, just focused on his recovery. That's what somebody like Lamar needs to do. He needs to go away, focus on his recovery, not worry about anything else and stay there for an extended period of time.
COOPER: But, I mean, a lot of people can't do that. I mean, you need to work, you need to earn money.
PINSKY: I know it's very difficult. I know it's really difficult, the conundrum and we try to work it out for each individual patient to make it work as well as possible but somebody who has life threatening addiction, listen, if that person has cancer, they've manage to find a way to get their cancer treated, not work.
COOPER: All right. Dr. Drew, thanks.
PINSKY: You bet.
COOPER: Well, that does well for us. We'll see you again 11 p.m. Eastern with another edition of 360. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts now.