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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

New Breast Cancer Guide: Screen Later & Less; Ride-Along In A Driverless Car. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired October 20, 2015 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[16:30:05]

JEFF ZELENY: It is true he wants to be president. Those are five words you hear again and again when you talk to Democrats who are around Biden.

Now, he's gearing up for a run, spending time on the phone today, I'm told, with supporters and campaign advisers. But he could also still back away at the 11th hour. And, Jake, that 11th hour is quickly approaching. One friend of his told me today was, he can't let this go on much longer.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

I want to talk about 2016 with Republican strategist Katie Packer and Democratic strategist Stephanie Cutter. We should disclose that Cutter's firm has done some work for the Clinton campaign.

Stephanie, now you heard Vice President Biden in Jeff's piece talk about what happened during those moments, but the story has been told and retold in a different version before. In fact, take a listen to Vice President Biden talking to House Democrats back in January 2012.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Every single person in that room hedged their bet, except Leon Panetta. Leon said go. Everyone else said, 49/51. This -- he got to me, and he said, Joe, what do you think? And I said, you know, I didn't know we had so many economists around the table. I say we owe the man a direct answer.

Mr. President, my suggestion is don't go. We have to do two more things to see if he's there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Don't go. Today, he said, go.

Revisionism, lots of different versions of what -- what do you think's going on here?

STEPHANIE CUTTER, FORMER OBAMA DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, I think we need to ask the vice president that. I was not in the room. I can't speak to it. (CROSSTALK)

CUTTER: But I do think that he has his own conversations with the president that other people don't have. I think it is...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: He was saying don't go in a big room full of people and then privately say go.

CUTTER: I don't know. I'm not suggesting that I know what he said.

But I do think it's plausible that he walked back to the residence with the president and gave his own personal opinion. So -- but that's up to the vice president to explain that. I know that the president relies on his opinion very much, and counts on his counsel, particularly when it comes to foreign policy issues.

TAPPER: You have a great future as a diplomat, Stephanie, should that ever come. I just want you to know that.

Katie, I want to ask you about some undiplomatic comments by Mike Murphy, talking about -- Mike Murphy obviously supports Governor Bush. He runs his super PAC and he dismissed Donald Trump today as a "zombie front-runner who is dead politically and just does not yet know it."

Is that wishful thinking? What do you think's going on there?

KATIE PACKER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I do think that, you know, Donald Trump is certainly an unconventional front-runner and hasn't really been put through the same kind of wringer that a candidate would be if media and others thought of him as a legitimate candidate.

TAPPER: We have been covering him as a legitimate candidate.

(CROSSTALK)

PACKER: You have been covering him. I don't know if you have been covering him in the same way that other candidates get covered, with the same level of scrutiny.

TAPPER: I think voters don't have the same standard for him. We can point out flip-flops.

PACKER: But the media should.

TAPPER: But we are. We are. We do. I think we point these things out and the voters don't care as much.

PACKER: I don't know that that's fair. I don't think that if Jeb Bush had some plan to build a wall between us and Mexico and never had outlined a strategy for how to build it, how to depart 11 million people...

CUTTER: How to pay for it.

PACKER: ... that he would just have sort of been given a pass on it.

(CROSSTALK)

PACKER: I mean, it's all about management. I understand that.

But if he were a real candidate in the minds of the media, he'd be pressed on these questions. I think that's what's Mike is probably referring to, is that he's not really treated like a real candidate. He's treated like a celebrity, and, hopefully you know, the longer this goes, there will be some pressure to start to treat him like an actual candidate.

TAPPER: Stephanie, your firm also did some work for the new prime minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, and his party. I want to play a clip from prime minister-elect Trudeau in contrast to what Hillary Clinton had to say about Republicans being her enemies. This is how Justin Trudeau sounded last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER-ELECT: Conservatives are not our enemies. They're our neighbors.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Which enemy are you most proud of?

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Probably the Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is this just a matter of different timing, post-election vs...

CUTTER: No, I think that it's a matter of context. Look, Hillary Clinton is being called again to testify in front of the Benghazi Committee for the third time. There's not one more question that she can answer on what happened in Benghazi or why she wasn't -- why there wasn't security.

I mean, she's answered that with you, Jake, in an interview last week. So, you know, that's what she's referring to, this ongoing, you know, political exercise to try to bring her down.

However, she has also said, on numerous occasions and actually has proven this through the way she has operated as a senator and as a first lady, that she wants to work with Republicans. She will stand her ground. She will fight for what she believes in, but she will reach across the aisle to get things done.

[16:35:02]

And I think that's an important piece. And I think that she said that in your interview as well. But she's said that repeatedly. She's got a record in that regard.

TAPPER: She did say that, in fact. Katie, Politico reported, and CNN just confirmed that at a fund-raiser for his brother, President George W. Bush said of his fellow Texan Senator Cruz, "I just don't like the guy." Jeb Bush is already tangling with Trump and others. Does he really need another war of words with another candidate?

PACKER: Well, whether he needs it or not, George W. Bush is somebody, as a past president, has the luxury of saying what's on his mind. I sort of take him at his word that he probably just doesn't like the guy.

Hopefully, that doesn't turn into a squabble with Jeb Bush. That was a personal opinion offered by President Bush. I think he's sort of says it like it is.

TAPPER: All right, Katie, Stephanie, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

The national lead, it was easy to hack the contract CIA director's personal e-mail account, that from two guys who say they pulled off the stunt. They're also telling CNN why they did it and who could be next. But who are these self-proclaimed hackers? That story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:19]

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Topping our national lead, bizarre new details today on the hackers claiming to have compromised the private e-mail accounts of CIA Director John Brennan and Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson.

And in Brennan's case, they accessed sensitive information, including an application for top-secret security clearance. The apparent group calling themselves CWA is boasting about its alleged breach in an exclusive interview with CNN.

Laurie Segall spoke to them on the phone.

Laurie, what did they have to say?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was pretty interesting. And I will say this.

They said on a scale of one to 10, it was a one on how easy it was for them to actually get into John Brennan's e-mail, which is obviously pretty disturbing. Now, I reached out to them on Twitter on the same account that they were leaking a lot of the information and I was able to get them on the phone.

Now, Jake, they disguised their voice to protect their identity and they talked to me a little bit about how they allegedly did this and why. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEGALL: You claim you were able to hack the private e-mail account of the CIA director. How did you do that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we had most of his personal information, like his name, address, phone number, Social Security number, and other things.

And we socially engineered, we like manipulated AOL to like do the password reset on the account. It was that easy that I could have done it with one hand.

SEGALL: You guys say you were able to hack into his personal inbox. What did you find?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Social Security numbers. Plans and he was talking about Iraq and Syria. There was a lot of I guess private information, really. He's pretty stupid, really. He's supposed to be so high in the government, like head of CIA. He should be more cleaver.

SEGALL: What was your motivation for doing this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The United States government funds Israel and in Israel they kill innocent people. Basically, we just want one way of saying a free Palestinian, free Gaza.

SEGALL: Can you give any indication of your background, how old you are? Are you in the United States, anything you can tell me about yourself?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I'm below the age of 20 years old. I smoke pot. And I live in America.

SEGALL: And you smoke pot?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All day every day.

SEGALL: Do you guys worry about retribution?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to Russia and chill with Snowden, because I know the government are pretty mad about this. I'm probably going to get tortured.

SEGALL: How vulnerable are other government officials to people like you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say 100 percent vulnerable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SEGALL: Jake, sources have also confirmed that both of the accounts were, in fact, hacked.

We can't independently verify the leaked documents, but, as you hear from these hackers, they themselves say they weren't that sophisticated, but they were still able to actually get inside that inbox.

Jake, they told me they decided they want to do it and in the same day they were able to do it.

TAPPER: Laurie Segall live in London, thanks so much.

The national lead, just when and how often should a woman get tested for breast cancer? Experts now say, less is more. But this major shift may raise even more questions -- that story coming up.

And the money lead, driverless cars steering closer to reality. But are we ready to hand over the keys to technology? CNN went on a test drive. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:47:34] TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

Our national lead now -- when and how often women should be screened for breast cancer has caused great deal of confusion and controversy over the past few years and it's not clear whether these new guidelines announced today will help calm matters.

The American Cancer Society today said, no, earlier mammograms are not better and instead breast cancer screening should happen later and less often. Yes, you heard that right.

Let's get right to CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

Elizabeth, break down these new guidelines for us. So, they're not supposed to get -- you're not supposed to get a mammogram at age 40 anymore.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, the American Cancer Society is now saying, age 45. I know it's counterintuitive. So, let's go over it and then we'll discuss why they did this.

So, Jake, the old recommendations, the one up until today, said start getting mammograms at 40. Now, they're saying 45. They say, if you want to start at 40, you can, but we recommend age 45. And then after you turn 55, they say you can have them every other year, if you like.

Now, the old recommendations also said, women should get regular breast exams from their doctors starting at age 40. And now, they're saying no one should get breast exams, where a doctor feels for lumps and bumps.

What they are basically saying is that these two things, mammograms in your early 40s and doctors' breast exams, the evidence just doesn't show that it actually helps them catch cancer early and save lives.

TAPPER: But why the shift? I mean, what's the harm?

COHEN: Right, exactly. The harm is exactly what they're pointing at. They say, look, mammogram save lives but not fabulous technology. They have a lot of false positives. So, there are too many women being told, oh gosh, you know, we think we might have seen a cancer, we need to get a biopsy, we need to perhaps do more mammograms, give you more radiation.

And they say that when you look sort of big picture, there may be more women getting harmed than actually saving lives. So, they say it's just not worth it because these false positives are just so common, especially among younger women. Younger women have denser breasts and so, the mammogram isn't so good at reading those breasts.

TAPPER: And what's been the response from the breast cancer community, say, among survivors who maybe had cancer when they -- detected when they younger than 45?

COHEN: You know what's interesting, Jake -- I contacted, you know, young survivors groups and other advocacy groups and, you know, in 2009, when a similar recommendation came down to raise the age from a different group, there was an uproar.

[16:50:01] I didn't sense an uproar at this time. I think that there was sort of a general consensus that, you know, it might be true, there's not a whole lot of evidence. They didn't necessarily agree with American Cancer Society, but they weren't as passionate as they were six years ago.

Now, having said that, really the most important group here, and their reaction is the insurance companies. Well, insurance companies now say, look the American Cancer Society says start at 45, we're not going to pay for these in your early 40s.

My guess is they won't go that far because they're afraid. I mean, the Pink Ribbon Campaign is so strong, I think that they're afraid women will get upset and I think that they probably will keep paying starting at age 40 but, of course, only time will tell.

TAPPER: Yes. We'll have to keep an eye out for that.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much.

The money lead: the wave of the future -- no foot on the gas, no hands on the wheel. How would you react in a car on autopilot? CNN's Rene Marsh rode along on a test drive. She'll tell us what she went through, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:55:13] TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Our money lead now: beyond the victory for the Eagles, the "Star Wars" trailer was the best part of last night's Eagles/Giants game on ESPN. The much-hyped teaser for "The Force Awakens" debuted during halftime, giving legions of fans glimpses of an older Hans Solo, Chewbacca, Princess Leia, new characters and the latest special effects and, of course, the epic space battles.

But the real battle may have been scoring tickets. Presales coincided with the trailer. Many folks were so eager to reserve seats and perhaps erase memories of Jar Jar Binks, that sites like Fandango and AMC crashed. The trailer is the last big look at the film until its December 18th release. That is, of course, if local theaters are not already sold out. May the force be with you.

Tomorrow is the day we've all been waiting for. "Back to the Future Day", October 21st, 2015, the day and date that where Marty McFly's destination at the end of the first "Back to the Future" movie and throughout, "Back to the Future Part 2", the Cubs could possibly win the World Series as the movie foretold.

And while I don't think we'll have a flying car by tomorrow, we are only getting closer to driverless cars. Today, Virginia opened up 70 miles of highway to take the driverless cars for a spin.

And our own CNN Rene Marsh rode in one today. She joins me now.

So, Rene, thank goodness you made it here in one piece. That's a good sign. I'll take that as positive. How was the ride?

RENE MARSH, CNN GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: No broken bones, but I can tell you, it was definitely a test in trust. I mean, there's no foot on the pedal. No hands on the steering wheel, driving 65 miles per hour, and you're wondering, will this vehicle stop when the motorcycle in front of you suddenly stops?

So, that's the kind of testing that is happening on real roads, just outside of the nation's capital. It's a first for the state of Virginia, which hopes to position itself as the hotbed for autonomous car research.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VOICE: Automated controls engaging.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Feet off, hands off, eyes off.

MARSH (voice-over): That's how we drove, 65 miles per hour down a stretch of Virginia highway. It's the state's first try at testing driverless vehicles on real roads.

CNN in one test car and the head of the National Highway Safety Administration in another. Virginia Tech researchers in the driver's seat just in case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right here, I'm going to transition over to automated mode.

MARSH: Researchers are studying how people in driverless cars react to anything, from another car suddenly stopping, to a construction worker in the road, all to help design the safest vehicle possible.

LUKE NEURAUTER, VIRGINIA TECH RESEARCHER: The vehicle's controlling our speed and our lane position and monitoring the environment ahead.

MARSH: The test car receives wireless signals from other vehicles in the test, when the motorcycle brakes --

(on camera): Your foot is not on the pedal.

NEURAUTER: I'm not on the pedal. So, he has a braking event.

VOICE: To avoid collision.

NEURAUTER: And here we have a construction worker that was hidden behind the truck but he's wearing a vest that has the same technology and he's communicating his position to us as well. And so, when the vehicle detected a possible collision path, our vehicle automatically braked to a stop.

MARSH (voice-over): This is the future of driving. Virginia joins California, Nevada, Florida, Michigan, and Washington, D.C., in okaying self-driving car testing on public roads.

(on camera): You're saying it's cool because we're on a real road. How crucial that is in moving forward to this next step.

MARK ROSEKIND, NHTSA ADMINISTRATOR: We saw a trooper coming up behind us. We saw a workman come out from behind the truck, all responded beautifully by the automation and connected elements that were there.

At some point, though, it's going to get more complicated out there. It's a critical element of seeing all of this move forward.

MARSH (voice-over): Forward to the day where no hands, no feet, no eyes, is the mantra for all drivers on the road.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: Jake, as you know, some of the technology's already in vehicles. But the day in which you can go to sleep and get to point A -- from point A to point B, they say it's a few decades away. So --

TAPPER: I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

Rene Marsh, thank you so much.

That new chip-enabled credit card you may have received is supposed to be more secure, but the uneven distribution of the new cards is leaving a window open for con artists. A recent survey showed almost 60 percent of users have not gotten a new card. So, scammers have sent fake e-mails pretending to be credit card companies asking for personal information. So, if you get an e-mail, and you're not sure whether it's legitimate, the government advises you to call the number on the back of your card. Don't just give your information to these yahoos on the other end.

That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Turning it over now to Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM."