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Interview with Rick Santorum; Dr. Ben Carson's Violent Past; George H.W. Bush Biography Criticizes Son's Administration. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 5, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] RICK SANTORUM, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SENATOR: Again, this I think shows a little bit of the lack of understanding of how the same works. We don't have a national primary. We have a state by state primary. I feel very, very confident we're going to do well. I think we're going to do very, very well. In fact --

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: You're talking about Iowa?

SANTORUM: In Iowa. Again, I go back to the national polls not being the predictor of anything. Donald's not been in the political realm that much. He probably doesn't understand these things. The fact is, we go state by state. And I feel very comfortable when those votes are cast we're going to be in good shape.

BLITZER: Even the Iowa polls don't have you in the top tier right now.

SANTORUM: Our numbers are really good. People like us everywhere we go. We get very positive, you know, you're on my list. Right now, you just want to be on people's list. What we found four years ago is people are going to go through a lot of different candidates. According to the "Des Moines Register" poll, 89 percent of Iowans have not made up their mind yet. When I won four years ago, over 50 percent of the people who voted for me decided in the last four days. This is a wide-open race now. Anything can happen. The idea we're going to start culling candidates or creating top tiers and bottom tiers, which is what the national party and the networks have done, to me, is a tragedy and something that needs to be stopped and allow every candidate to be heard who has a right to be heard.

BLITZER: Sounds like you're not very happy with Reince Priebus, the chairman.

SANTORUM: I think the way the debates have been orchestrated was to fight a problem from last time around and not anticipating what this would be. We probably had too many debates last time. This time, we don't have enough and we're not being inclusive. In both cases, that's not helpful to voters.

BLITZER: You're staying at least through Iowa. SANTORUM: My plan is -- I always say the most important thing to do

is get to the start line. So far, a couple of folks haven't. Our intention is to get there. We feel very comfortable once we do, we'll be fine.

BLITZER: Rick Santorum, thanks for coming in.

SANTORUM: Thank you.

BLITZER: Good luck on the campaign trail.

SANTORUM: Thank you.

BLITZER: A programming note. Republican presidential candidate, Ted Cruz, will be a guest later today on "The Lead" with Jake Tapper. That airs at 4:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN.

Still to come, today's soft-spoken Dr. Ben Carson says he had a violent past as a teenager, but what are his friends, former classmates, saying about that? We'll take a closer look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:36:35] BLITZER: In the race for the White House, Dr. Ben Carson is known for his quiet, calm demeanor. That image in stark contrast to the portrait Carson himself paints of himself as a young man. He described himself as angry and violent, with a temper he calls pathological. But people interviewed by CNN, who knew Carson back then, are surprised by that description.

Our senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns, has more on the tale of two Ben Carsons.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. BEN CARSON, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & RETIRED NEUROSURGEON: Candidates can come and --

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Ben Carson's quiet dignified approach is a big part of his appeal but he says his calm demeanor was carved out of a violent past.

CARSON: As a teenager, I would go after people with rocks and bricks and baseball bats and hammers.

JOHNS: Carson wrote in his book about striking a schoolmate in the face with a combination lock, nearly punching his mother, smashing a kid's face with a rock. Carson said he also tried to kill a friend, identified as Bob, in a disagreement over the radio. He describes his temper as pathological, a disease that made him totally irrational.

CARSON: I had a large camping knife and I tried to stab him in the abdomen. Fortunately, under his clothing, he had on a large metal belt buckle. And the knife blade struck with such force that it broke.

JOHNS: It was, he says, a pivotal point in Carson's life, depicted in a TV movie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Bennie, what did you do?

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: But then, an epiphany. Carson says he quelled his anger with prayer.

CARSON: I locked myself in the bathroom and started contemplating my life and realizing that I would never realize my dream of becoming a physician with a temper like that.

JOHNS: From that point forward, Carson says he was a changed man. Now on a course from poverty in Detroit to world famous neurosurgeon.

CARSON: I never had another angry outburst since that day.

JOHNS: But that early picture of violence is not recognizable to some who grew up with Carson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was shocked. I was surprised, because he was quiet and calm.

JOHNS: CNN reporters, Maeve Reston and Clark Grover, tracked down 10 schoolmates and neighbors. None challenged Carson's story directly. Only one said they heard vague rumors about one of the incidents. But all said, this was not the boy he knew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was really surprised when I read he tried to stab someone. Like, what?

CLARK GROVER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Does it fit with the guy you knew? That kind of activity?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

JOHNS: The campaign has refused repeatedly quests from CNN to help find witnesses or the victims Carson mentions only by first name, telling CNN it was a quote, "witch-hunt." CNN has been unable to locate witnesses or victims.

TIMOTHY MCDANIEL, CARSON'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND: I associate him with a lot of things but never stooping to the level of a common street thug, so I was a little surprised by it.

JOHNS: Timothy McDaniel says he was one of Carson's closest childhood friends. He said he raised it with Carson after the book came out.

MCDANIEL: I said, you hid it from us all those years. He said he was just too embarrassed to talk about it.

I was surprised at some of the things he said. But, you know, he said it honestly and I believed everything he told me.

[13:40:03] JOHNS: Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And just a little while ago, Dr. Ben Carson responded to a question from CNN's Sunlen Serfaty, about that violent past as a youth. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: CNN did an investigation of your stories about childhood violence and they really had a hard time corroborating the details. Can you provide details beyond just these first names?

CARSON: Well, I don't want to expose people without their knowledge. Remember, when I was 14, when the knifing incident occurred, that's when i changed. That's when most of those people they talked to began to know who I was. They didn't know me before that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Just a little later, Dr. Carson said this to CNN. He said, "It's just that I had a very bad temper, so unless you were the victim of that temper, why would you know? Just because you happen to know me, that doesn't make any sense."

Our national political reporter, Maeve Reston, and our justice reporter, Scott Glover, tracked down and interviewed former classmates and neighbors of Dr. Carson.

First of all, Maeve, what's your response to his reaction to this report that you guys put together?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, it's inaccurate. We've talked to people who knew Dr. Carson from his elementary school years, his middle school years, his high school years, people in the neighborhood. So to say we only talked to people who were around when he was 14 and in the midst of this, you know, stabbing incident is inaccurate. I think it's still, you know, raises a lot of questions for me about why he won't give the last name of these people, identify them. If you talk about going around and hitting people with bricks and bats, presumably, there are going to be some people at your neighborhood or at your school who knew about that.

BLITZER: His argument is he doesn't want -- these people have their own lives and he doesn't want to disrupt their lives.

If they want to come forward and discuss this, Scott, that's their right, but he doesn't want to necessarily bring them in and get them part of the story, if you will.

GLOVER: You know, that is his prerogative. But the man is running for president. And various parts of his life are going to be under scrutiny. He's described some serious potentially criminal misconduct from assault with a deadly weapon to attempted murder. It's, you know, in the reporting that we've done, he lived in a neighborhood where according to friends it was fairly tight-knit and parents were on top of their kids. And if one parent saw a kid do something wrong, didn't matter if it was their child, they discipline him and then they called that kid's parents. One of his friends described the neighborhood being that way. It's a little bit -- you know, we were surprised that we couldn't find any evidence of this pattern of hitting people with bricks and rocks and bats and, you know --

(CROSSTALK)

RESTON: That's a really important thing to point out here. Is that we set out to find these people as part of our vetting of a presidential candidate to talk to these people about the incidents, their recollections, his temperament, and something that you'd want to look at for someone who's going to be president of the United States. So we are still looking for jerry and bob and hope they will come forward and tell those stories.

BLITZER: We'll see if they do.

You guys have written an excellent long article on CNN.com, which I recommend to our viewers for more information.

Thanks very much for coming in.

RESTON: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks for doing your job.

We're going to hear more from Dr. Carson right here on CNN. He'll be joining "New Day" tomorrow morning. That starts at 6:00 a.m. eastern. "New Day," Dr. Ben Carson will be a special guest.

Up next, arrogant, hard-line, and serving the president badly. Those are some strong words from former President George H.W. Bush about two officials in his son's administration. We were going to hear how those people are now responding. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:48:11] BLITZER: A new biography of former President George H.W. Bush gives a surprising glimpse into what he thought of his son's administration. In interviews with the author, Jon Meacham, the former president strongly criticized Dick Cheney, who had been his defense secretary before becoming vice president under President George W. Bush. The elder Bush said Cheney, quote, "Built his own empire under George W. Bush." He said, "After 9/11, he just became very hard-line and very different from the Dick Cheney I knew and worked with." Bush 41 also criticized Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, calling him an "arrogant fellow who served the president badly."

According to the biographer, George W. Bush said his father never expressed those opinions to him. He said -- I am quoting -- "I am proud to have served with Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. I was fortunate to have him by my side throughout my presidency. Don Rumsfeld ably led the Pentagon. I am grateful to both men for their good advice, selfless service and to our country and friendship."

Donald Rumsfeld had this strong response, "Bush 41 misjudges Bush 43, who I found made his own decisions. There are hundreds of memos on Rumsfeld.com that represent advice DOD gave the president."

I'm joined by our "Washington Post" reporter, Ed O'Keefe; our chief national correspondent, the host of "Inside Politics," John King; and our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.

Gloria, this is pretty unusual, to see this exchange going on right now.

[13:49:51] GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it is. When you have a biographer who is as good as Jon Meacham, who has a good relationship with Bush 41, Bush 41 told the truth, which I think is refreshing. It's clear to me that 41, while 43 was president, kept his distance and didn't interfere in his son's presidency, unless he was asked. And it was also very clear from the things we've read this morning that 43 did not ask an awful lot of just informed him about strategy and, therefore, Bush 41 kind of held back.

BLITZER: What's your -- you covered this together with all of us.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, A, 1,000 percent I agree that it's refreshingly honest in an age of spin and hiding things that George H.W. Bush -- who knows this is going to be his last word. He's 91 years old, but he's sitting down with Jon Meacham, somebody he trusts, something he knows. But this is going to be his land word. So he's critical of Rumsfeld and his son and the Axis of Evil comments and other things, but not in a snarky way and not in a nasty way, just in an honest way, that I disagree to things like this.

To the Rumsfeld point, they are eight years apart, and I think the history people might not realize is, to the elder, 91 years old, Donald Rumsfeld, 83 years old -- I often say, Washington is like the fifth grade. They have been rivals for years, back to the Nixon administration. Donald Rumsfeld, in his book, criticizes things George H.W. Bush did as vice president after the Lebanon bombing, criticizes his actions right after the Persian Gulf War when they didn't go after Saddam Hussein, especially after Saddam Hussein started persecuting the Kurds and other minorities in Iraq. So Donald Rumsfeld has not been a fan of George H.W. Bush for a long time. Thinks he should have been vice president or he should have been president. Some of this is personal rivalry. Some of it is difference of opinion.

BLITZER: The new book doesn't come out until next week.

But, Ed O'Keefe, you wrote an excellent article in "The Washington Post" about it. You have gone through this book already. What else stands out in your mind?

ED O'KEEFE, REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Just the mere fact that this is happening at all and given the timing of Jeb Bush's presidential campaign is going to create headaches for him. The idea that a former president is being critical of another former president in a tell all and the fact they are related and a member of their family is running for the same office they both held. It's a dynamic we have never seen before and it's going to revive a lot of questions for Jeb Bush that he hoped he kind of settled earlier in the year. Remember, he kind of stumbled over questions about what he would have done over Iraq. He stacked a foreign policy advisory team with a very careful mix of people who worked for his father and brother. And now it gets drudged up again in incredible detail and in candid honesty from his father.

What's notable is we do learn, over the course of the first Bush presidency, that on several different occasions he brought in W. and he brought in Jeb Bush to talk about managerial issues. We know things like removing his chief of staff. But later, like, do I keep Dan Quayle as my running mate. Do I pardon guys involved in the Iran/Contra scandal? All these things he would ask the sons what do you think and they provided advice.

BLITZER: It's going to be fascinating reading for all of us, especially those who covered that period.

He raises a good point, Ed, Gloria. How will this impact Jeb Bush's presidential campaign?

BORGER: The first thing it shows is that dynasties can also be dysfunctional families. And that Bush 41 didn't agree with everything Bush 43 did, but they are family. It sheds some light on the difficulties that Jeb has had on criticizing the Iraq war. It took him, what, four or five times until he said the Iraq war was a mistake because they are blood. And I think that it could, in a way, help some people to look at this family and say it's not one dimensional here that, as you go down the line, from 41 to 43 to Jeb, there are differences in opinions and policies. But now Jeb, to Ed's point, is going to have to answer questions about his father and his brother disagreeing.

KING: I find it refreshing that you have a family that's not afraid to air it out. There are Thanksgiving dinners or their policy discussions where they disagree. Because they love each other, they feel free to do that.

To Ed's point though, one of Jeb Bush's complications, his chief complications are he's ideologically out of sync with the base of his party on big issues. But voters are in no mood -- if you talk to professionals in both parties, the focus groups, especially now that Hillary Clinton looks more secure as the Democratic nominee, they say voters are in no mood for a Bush/ Clinton race. And that hurts Jeb Bush. So any talk about the Bush family, a Bush dynasty does not help.

GLORIA: He would have to take sides. Who does he agree with? His father or his brother?

(CROSSTALK)

KING: I hope he's smart enough to say read the book and see the movie. (LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: And talk to me a little about how Jeb Bush is regrouping right now. His poll numbers are very disappointing.

[13:54:48] O'KEEFE: Yeah, he's up in New Hampshire this week, the state he has to win in order to survive through the weeks of the primaries next year. The goal is to spend as much time there as possible. Spend a little less time fundraising and focus on this "Jeb can fix it" theme that he turned around Florida and is willing to turn around Washington.

Remarkable also he's spent a lot of time talking to guys, Wolf, holding television interviews with every network, even with "The Huffington Post," opening up about his past and his family's history, his nuclear family history with drug abuse, his daughter. He talks about it at great length with "The Huffington Post," in a really remarkable exchange. All of this designed to get him out there, remind people he's in this race, and hope he performs better in next week's debate.

BLITZER: I've discovered over the years, covering presidential campaigns, John and Gloria, I'm sure you agree, the more trouble a presidential candidate is in, the more willing that candidate is to go on television --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: -- and talk to us --

(LAUGHTER)

-- have been trying to get interviews. All of a sudden, they become pretty available.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: That's what happens.

(LAUGHTER)

John King, Gloria Borger, Ed O'Keefe, thank you very much.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room".

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For our viewers here in North America, NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)