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Candidates and Issues; Beirut Bombings; Will Trump's Antics Start to Cost Him in Polls? Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 13, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: I know that you like to have policy discussions. So let's do that. Let's start with immigration policy. I don't know if you had a chance to hear the interview -

JOHN SUNUNU, FMR. CHIEF OF STAFF, PRESIDENT GEORGE H.W. BUSH: I did.

CAMEROTA: Good. So just to recap for our viewers -

SUNUNU: I had to turn my sound down, but it was OK.

CAMEROTA: I don't know if you get the full gist with the sound down. So let me just recap for our viewers what Donald Trump told Erin Burnett in terms of his immigration policy. He says that he would insist that employers use e-verify and that would sort of lick the problem because people wouldn't be coming in here for jobs. They would self-deport, he says. And for those who stuck around, he would use a deportation force like President Eisenhower did in the past. What do you think of that plan?

SUNUNU: Well, first of all, let's put the whole immigration issue in context. It was an issue in 2012 in the Romney campaign. It was going to be an issue in this campaign anyway. So Trump's claim that we're only talking about it because of his involvement is ridiculous. Secondly, all the Republicans have the same plan for about two-thirds of the immigrants that are here. Forty percent of the problem is overstaying visa. Every Republican says we have to address that aggressive with data processing and with processing track down on those that have overstayed visas. That's 40 percent of the problem.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

SUNUNU: In addition to that, every Republican says use e-verify. Trump thinks he's the only one talking about e-verify? Baloney. So two- thirds of the problem is common in terms of solution.

CAMEROTA: Yes. OK.

SUNUNU: So the one difference is the Trump force. The Trump force is a farce. There is no way he would ever get legal authority to do that kind of stuff. It is true that if we start requiring employers to make sure they're not hiring illegals that, over a short period of time, even that last percentage will eventually dribble out of the country. Most Republicans have the same plan. They don't have the same hot rhetoric. CAMEROTA: Well, you know, Senator Ted Cruz would take umbrage at you

saying that he shares the plan with many of his Republican rivals because he thinks that he is really in a different category. In fact, he has lumped Marco Rubio into a group that he says contains Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton. Let me play for you what Ted Cruz says about his plan versus the others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When Chuck Schumer and Barack Obama joined with establishment Republicans in pushing the massive amnesty plan, the gang of eight bill, I joined side by side with Senator Jeff Sessions. We led the fight to defeat amnesty and we beat it in Congress. We defeated it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Isn't Ted Cruz in a different category than others, senator? I mean don't -

SUNUNU: No, Ted Cruz is wrong. Amnesty is dead. No Republican wants to have amnesty. What they want to do is address the problem in a constructive way. It has to be addressed. There's not a single candidate running today that doesn't - on the Republican side that does not acknowledge it has to be addressed. I think the biggest difference is in the heat and the severity of the rhetoric. And I hope that that's not the deciding factor as people go out and make their selections.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about foreign policy and what's going on in the fight for ISIS because Donald Trump also talked about his plan to defeat ISIS. So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know more about ISIS than the generals do. Believe me. I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them. I would just bomb those suckers. And, that's right, I'd blow up the pipes. I'd blow up the refine - I'd blow up every single inch. There would be nothing left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, governor, what do you think of that plan?

SUNUNU: Look, that whole rant in Iowa is the reason that we should not have a reality show star as president of the United States. I'm not a great fan of Ben Carson's, but his attack on Ben Carson, which was - which - either just followed or was just before that, that let's bomb them to the stone age rant, was irrational. It was rude. It was crude. And, frankly, politically, it was dumb. And this is the problem. It applies equally to the fact that every strategy that Mr. Trump puts on the table is dependent on hot rhetoric to get the emotional response from the voters, but has no rationality or substance behind it in terms of being able to be implemented.

CAMEROTA: But - so, governor, I mean I -

SUNUNU: I think everybody - everybody running, everybody running wants the U.S. to be more aggressive to ISIS. They want the U.S. to use all its air power to its fullest extent. Mr. Trump likes to put it in terms of hot language to bomb them to the stone age. But the fact is, is every Republican running except Rand Paul is willing to use U.S. air power to its fullest in dealing with the needs in the Middle East.

[08:35:20] CAMEROTA: So, governor, there's a "Washington Post" article out this morning that suggests that establishment Republicans are getting nervous and they're getting nervous because of some of the things you've touched on, that they're not that comfortable with Donald Trump being their front runner.

SUNUNU: Right.

CAMEROTA: They're not even that comfortable with Ben Carson being the frontrunner. And that there might be this ground swell of interest in drafting Mitt Romney to get into the race. What do you think?

SUNUNU: Well, I'm not a party to those discussions. I - but the last time I talked to Mitt a couple of months ago, he was adamantly opposed to getting into this race. So, look, this is a crazy season. Anything's possible. Maybe Mitt's had a change of mind. I haven't talked to him.

I do think that what you saw in Iowa yesterday is the beginning of the unraveling of the loud mouth's campaign.

CAMEROTA: But would you want to see Mitt Romney? I mean I know that you - you've made it clear how you feel about Donald Trump being the frontrunner. So what is the solution? Do you see a field where one of the more establishment Republicans does come to the fore or should Mitt Romney get in?

SUNUNU: No, I think - I think this is really going to come down to Rubio and Jeb. Maybe Kasich will stay in there. Maybe Christie will stay in there. It will come down to people who can handle the office of the presidency in the long run. I have faith in the American voter that when they really get down to making their decision and deciding how they're going to cast their votes, that they're going to be a little bit more rational than they've been up until now in responding to the polls.

CAMEROTA: Governor John Sununu, always a pleasure. Thanks so much for being on.

SUNUNU: Thank you. Yes.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: So, we have word of twin suicide bombings in Beirut and ISIS claiming responsibility. Now, if that is true, what does that tell us about their capabilities and expansion certainly beyond Syria? We'll get into all this when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41:05] CUOMO: A pair of suicide bombings striking southern Beirut on Thursday killing 43 people, wounding more than 200. ISIS claiming responsibility. We have CNN's senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward joining us live from Beirut.

Clarissa, what is the latest?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

Well, we are here at the scene of where that second suicide bomber detonated his explosive vest. And we've been walking around inside that area. It is still covered in broken glass and there's still fresh blood all over the ground from the 43 people who were killed and the more than 200 injured. That death toll could have been much higher, though. There was a third suicide bomber who was killed by the first two blasts and did not successfully detonate his own vest.

ISIS is claiming responsibility for this attack. They say because this is a Shiite Muslim neighborhood. You can see behind me, Chris, there are yellow flags fluttering. Those yellow flags are the flags of Hezbollah. And Hezbollah is fighting with the Syrian regime inside Syria. So ISIS says it was essentially retaliating against that cooperation. But it's important for our viewers to understand, Chris, that this is a civilian neighbor. There are cafes and shops behind me. This area would have been bustling with people getting ready for the evening meal. And many people here in Lebanon are afraid with ISIS vowing more attacks that we're going to see the end of a relatively quiet couple of years and we're going to see an uptick in this sort of sectarian violence.

Chris.

CUOMO: And what's your take on how this works in terms of ISIS' reach? Is it that they're doing this themselves or is this about putting out a call to anybody who wants to do anything in their name and this is Hezbollah dealing with their own anti-factions there?

WARD: Well, that's the real complication, Chris. How much of this is actually being orchestrated by ISIS' leadership in Syria and Iraq and how much of it is essentially the franchise effect, where anybody who feels disgruntled by Hezbollah's involvement in Syria can essentially launch these types of attacks and then claim credit for them in the name of ISIS? And the answer is, we simply don't know. But what we do know is that ISIS is obviously really trying to sow seeds of discord across the region. It only takes a bomb like this on a soft target, like this civilian area, and really capitalizing on sectarian divisions that already exist in Lebanon and then they start to create this chaos. And that chaos is exactly what they're looking for because when a vacuum exists, that's when ISIS steps in and takes control. And that's why people here in Lebanon are so frightened that they're going to see more acts of this nature in their future.

CUOMO: You know, and we just saw a family come by holding the picture of one of their loved ones who is evidently lost in the situation. You know, the cost is real on the ground, Clarissa. Thank you very much for telling us about the reporting. Thank you very much.

Mic.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here are your five things on this Friday. We begin with number one, the U.S. targeting Jihadi John with a drone strike in Syria. The Pentagon still assessing whether the mass executioner for ISIS was killed. There is confidence, though, the mission succeeded.

Meanwhile, Kurdish forces declaring they've toppled ISIS and retaken the key Iraqi city of Sinjar. That victory considered a huge milestone that could ultimately lead to the liberation of Mosul.

Back at home, Donald Trump going after his rivals in an epic 95 minute rant in Iowa, mocking Ben Carson's story about trying to stab a friend after earlier calling him pathological here on CNN.

A Secret Service agent arrested in connection with a child sexting. This man, Lee Robert Moore, apparently thought he was sending illicit messages to a 14-year-old girl. It turns out it was a Delaware state trooper.

Utah's division of child services challenging a judge's decision to take a nine-month-old from her foster parents because they are lesbian. Child services say they will appeal in court if needed. That child is due to be removed from them next week.

[08:45:11] For more on the five things, be sure to visit newdayCNN.com.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right, Michaela. It is time now to meet another one of this year's top ten CNN heroes. Jody Farley-Berens lost a dear friend, a single mom, to cancer. She's now dedicating her life to lifting the spirits of other moms in Arizona suffering the disease.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODY FARLEY-BERENS: Cancer sucks and there is not a lot of happy that goes with that. But life does still go on. And everybody has the right to be happy and have a good time and just put their cares aside even for just a few hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Jody is just one of this year's top ten CNN heroes. This is the last weekend you can vote for the hero you would like to see as our Hero of the Year. You can vote once a day through Sunday at cnnheroes.com.

PEREIRA: One of our favorite times of the year.

All right. So just when you thought Donald Trump couldn't find new ways to make headlines, he goes on this epic rant in Iowa sparing no one. How is this going to impact his run? We're going to discuss it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:50:25] TRUMP: He took a knife and he went after a friend and he lunged. He lunged that knife into the stomach of his friend. But lo and behold, it hit the belt. It hit the belt. And the knife broke. Give me a break.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And that is why you must find Ben Carson guilty of the crime -- don't you feel like that is the next line that comes in a situation like this?

CAMEROTA: I don't know what the next line is. I've stopped predicting.

CUOMO: This is Donald Trump -- some say hitting below the belt.

CAMEROTA: Well played.

CUOMO: Thank you very much. Nearly taking his belt off, as Alisyn has been mentioning all morning. Have you seen this epic 95 minute rant? It is just one of many highlights that came as a result of this in Iowa, of all places.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's take it all apart - not off - apart with CNN political director David Chalian from Washington, David - I mean, it bears --

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I'm keeping my belt on.

CAMEROTA: OK. Thank you. You are the only one because - I mean, it just bears repeating and playing these moments from this event last night because it was a pretty stunning display, demonstration from Donald Trump. We've had two big-brained politicos on, including you, this morning. We have Governor John Sununu who was just on and we had Michael Smerconish on earlier who have said this will hurt Trump. Why? This is the sort of energized red meat that he's been succeeding with for months.

CHALIAN: Right. I'm more in your camp there, Alisyn. I do think this has been working for him. Here is where I think the risk is and where it may hurt Trump, but we don't know. He is insulting and complaining about this man Ben Carson that is very well-liked. His favorable ratings are very high. He's a religious man. And when you are going after a religious man in front of religious voters in Iowa, that is not sort of a proven track record of how you win Iowa. So I can understand why people would look at that and say, hey, this may pose some risk to Trump.

However, everything we've learned this year so far is that when Trump goes here this is what excites his supporters. I don't know if you can find a single Trump supporter to watch what he did last night and his rant and all of a sudden they are like whoa, I have new information, I no longer can support Donald Trump now. That just doesn't seem realistic.

CUOMO: That's why I'm calling them tactics. This is his strategy. He comes at you directly. We're not used to seeing it. He does it with a bravado and a relish that is entertaining and it's been working for him in the polls. How, you know, the whole high floor, low ceiling thing issue with him, the built in negatives. That is what he's going to have to play to be someone who can beat the Democrat in the general - that's the decision he'll have to make.

Now when it comes to Carson, I think they have a good point, that how much can you talk about what he did when he was 14? If the guy wants to admit to horrible things, why are you going to chase him about him admitting his own fault? But then you get to an issue like Al Costa, OK, and to many it sizes up to the Tony Rezko of this election. Al Costa pleads guilty to medical fraud, healthcare fraud. Ben Carson defends him in a letter. Asks for leniency. Says he stays by him. Still invests with him. And yet says in his book that people who create fraud within the medical sphere should go to jail for a long time. Is that something that should have resonance?

CHALIAN: Well, you know, you heard Armstrong Williams earlier tell you, the Carson advisor, Chris, that this is a loyalty issue and that Ben Carson is going to stick with his friend through and through no matter what except that, as you point out, it is as if Ben Carson is making a different rule for his friend than he is for everyone else because he believes that that kind of crime should be punished quite harshly. I do think that that inconsistency, that potential hypocrisy, is a problem. But I don't think that that is going to be a real big problem for Ben Carson. I don't think that peels away supporters. Because I do think the idea of being loyal to a friend is one that many voters can understand.

CAMEROTA: David, let's talk about what's happening this weekend. The Democrats will be having a debate in Iowa. Maybe I can quickly pull up the latest ABC/"Washington Post" poll that shows the favorability of the Democrats. This is among all Americans, OK? And what you see here is that Hillary Clinton has a vulnerability. Her unfavorable is higher than her favorable. Not so with Bernie Sanders; they're more equal. What do you think is going to happen this weekend?

CHALIAN: That would be a vulnerability if tomorrow night was a general election debate. But she's at 82 percent favorable among Democrats and this is the Democratic nomination season. So she enters the stage tomorrow night in Iowa with only two other competitors this time in Bernie Sanders and then Martin O'Malley way down in the polls.

[08:55:04] And listen, she just has to go in there and do no harm. She's been rallying Democrats to her side. Bernie Sanders is the one that I think has the challenge tomorrow night. He's got to get out the there and explain why he is still relevant and viable and could potentially take her down. That is the challenge tomorrow night.

CUOMO: David Chalian, thank you. Have a great weekend.

CHALIAN: You, too.

CUOMO: It's Friday! How about some "Good Stuff?"

CAMEROTA: How about it?

CUOMO: I'll say yes for all of us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: "Good Stuff." We close out Veterans Week with a great one. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT SAJAK, HOST, WHEEL OF FORTUNE: Nura.

NURA FOUNTANA, WHEEL OF FORTUNE CONTESTANT: Z.

SAJAK: Say that again for me?

FOUNTANA: Z.

SAJAK: Did you say z? You did say z. Okay. I wonder what letter Nura will call.

FOUNTANA: X.

SAJAK: X. There is no x. Steve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Okay. In case you didn't know, those guesses are terrible. But they might have been intentionally so. That's veteran Nura Fountana. She was crushing the vet's edition of "Wheel of Fortune." She started flubbing the last round. Why? It looks like she was trying to throw her fellow vets some money. Nura is staying mum on the subject.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh. Wow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAJAK: You called some unusual letters.

FOUNTANA: That's what I thought (ph).

SAJAK: Yeah, OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Wow.

CUOMO: Even on a TV game show, the spirit of service. Nura's good deed was rewarded. She went on to win nearly $14,000. To her, the other contestants, all the veterans, thank you for your service to you and your families.

CAMEROTA: Did you hear Pat Sajak? He was like Z? When is the last time somebody called out an x or z? That was great.

PEREIRA: That was awesome. I like that.

CUOMO: Good person. Good people.

PEREIRA: Good Veterans Week. Thank you so much for that.