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Paris Attack Ringleader Killed; Syrian Americans Worried About Syrian Refugees; Bataclan Massacre Survivor Says to Fight Hate with Love. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 19, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: But I will tell you, the politician's job, one of their jobs is to settle the fears of the United States and to make sure that our national security is taken care of. And that's really what they should be doing. Instead of inciting people, they should be reinforcing somebody. And I tell you, the person that probably gets elected as president next year is going to be the person that makes the people feel secure. That's the key point. Not panicked. We need somebody who's going to come in and make us feel secure.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well said. Jonathan Gilliam, many thanks.

GILLIAM: You got it.

COSTELLO: This just in to CNN, the French interior minister just saying the now dead ringleader of the Paris attacks was involved in four of the six terror attacks foiled since spring. We'll have much more on that after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, there's relief on many -- in many parts of Paris today. The alleged ringleader behind the Paris attacks that killed 129 people, wounded 352 others, he is dead. He was killed in the raid on Saint-Denis yesterday early in the morning. The French prosecutor, today, saying his body was found in the rubble, riddled with impacts. They haven't said whether it's bullets or whether it was a suicide device.

[09:35:17] CNN's senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward is following the story for us from Saint-Denis where the raid took place.

I'm wondering what kind of reaction you're hearing from people there. I mean this is a community, as we've talked about before, with -- there's a great mistrust of police among many in that community. I'm wondering what they feel about the news today.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, I have to say, it's been pretty surprising because while everybody seems to be in agreement that this is good news, I actually spoke with a lot of people from around this neighborhood who said they simply didn't believe it. They didn't believe that he was dead. They said just yesterday the media was saying that he was in Syria. How is it possible that he was in Paris? And I think what that really speaks to, Anderson, is a lack of trust between people living in neighborhoods, like Saint-Denis, this is a rough inner city neighborhood, and between French authorities.

Other people said that they were glad that this was over, but they had no faith that it wasn't going to continue. Looking at the broader picture, one woman said to me, radicalism is a real problem here in this neighborhood. And up until now, French authorities have essentially ignored it. She said (speaking foreign language), they have to open their eyes. So really some mixed reactions here. But the prevalent one seems to be either sort of resignation to the fact that these types of attacks could well continue, or, Anderson, just absolute disbelief that he has even been killed.

COOPER: Well, we should also point out, of course, there's still an international manhunt on for Salah Abdeslam, the eighth terrorist, who has known to have been involved in Friday's attacks. There may be a ninth out there as well because there was some -- cell phone camera footage of two people in the vehicle that he was in. The identity of the ninth person is not at least publicly known. So -- and, Clarissa, as Paul Cruikshank was talking about, there is a wider network of French, of Belgians still working in Syria and elsewhere planning attacks.

WARD: That's right, this is not limited to Abdelhamid Abaaoud. It's always tempting at moments like this to, you know, feel justifiably triumphant or victorious to kill such a man. But the reality is, this problem is much deeper and this network is much wider than just one man.

And I did just want to bring in the French interior ministry just said that they now believe that they -- that -- of the six terror attacks that they have foiled since the spring, Abaaoud was responsible or played a role in at least four of them. That gives you a sense of just how powerful and central a figure he was in the jihad scene here in France. But it also gives you a sense, Anderson, of the fact, as the media often we only talk about these attacks when they actually happen, but to hear of six foiled attacks, it gives you a real good sense of how many attacks the French authorities are successfully thwarting and just what they're up against in terms of the magnitude and the scale of this problem.

Anderson.

COOPER: Which may have been why this guy wanted to be close to -- close to the attacks that were taking place here. Perhaps in the past, and this may not -- not be true, but perhaps he was trying to do it from afar and decided he wanted to be closer, which is why he came back to France. It will be fascinating to try to find out when it was he actually returned here. Obviously that's something French intelligence would like very much to know.

Clarissa, thanks for the reporting.

Our coverage from Paris continues in a moment. A lot ahead. We're going to take a short break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:17] COSTELLO: The fight over refugees heads to Capitol Hill, where right now a House hearing is underway on the screening program for those fleeing Syria and Iraq. Later this afternoon, the full House will vote on a Republican-backed bill that would suspend the current program allowing Syria and Iraqi refugees into the United States until new measures are implemented. The bill would require national security agencies to certify the a refugee is not a security threat and it would require the FBI director to certify that adequate background checks have been conducted. The White House says those certifications will not provide any additional security and that President Obama will likely veto the bill.

But nationwide, the debate over Syrian refugees has been heated. From presidential candidates to mayors of the nation's biggest cities, lawmakers are speaking out and at times taking aim at one another.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president's the person who created this entire situation, Jake. He didn't keep his word when he drew a red line in Syria. He allowed this situation in Syria to happen. He hasn't set up a no fly zone, which could create a safe haven for these refugees to live safely in their own country rather than having to scatter all across the world. And he's the one who's casting aspersions? It's a joke. And he's a joke on this issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: This child's death was on the front pages of newspapers all over the world. This image gripped the world, literally. Governor Christie specifically said he did not think it was appropriate for small children to be brought in. Is this what he wants to see happened to people? Is this what he wants to see happen to children? We don't accept that here in New York City.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: My next guest is a Syrian native who has lived in the United States for 30 years and says the Paris attacks have made him, in his words, anxious about the way the Muslims will be treated here as a result.

[09:45: 06]

His name is Dr. Doured Daghistani. He's a pediatric oncologist and he joins me now live from Miami. Good morning, Dr. D.

DR. DOURED DAGHISTANI, SYRIAN NATIVE LIVING IN THE U.S. FOR 30+ YEARS: Good morning, Carol, and thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Tell me why you're anxious. DAGHISTANI: I'm really worried about a lot of these Syrian refugees

and I hope our lawmakers don't create another St. Louis (ph) moment. Seventy-six years ago, everybody knows the voyage of the damned (ph). Two miles behind me, our Congress and our administration turned 900 Jews back to the war where some of them got killed by the Nazis. So I'm really anxious about thousands of these children; we have thousands of children orphans that they don't need back check. We have thousands of elderly that need basic medical needs in their 70s and 80s. They don't need aback check. And now we're going to close our doors? This is really not the right thing, Carol.

COSTELLO: What about the notion of a safe zone being created in Syria? Is that possible?

DAGHISTANI: You know, we've been talking about no fly zone as the Syrian-American Council here in the United States for four years. I think if there is a will, there is a possibility. But unfortunately our administration lacks the will.

COSTELLO: You don't think President Obama has done enough, in other words.

DAGHISTANI: Yes. Absolutely. As what we heard for the last few years, this problem could have really stopped. And unfortunately we are where we are right now.

COSTELLO: Today, the House will vote on a bill Republicans say will add additional security to the program allowing Syrian and Iraqi refugees to enter the United States. Should the United States take a moment to pause as the House Speaker said?

DAGHISTANI: You know, I don't think there is anything wrong by taking a moment to pause. I know the family that we receive here go through a year and a half of vetting, through six interviews, so they can come here. If we can pause for a day, for a week, I don't think that is a problem. But to say we're going to shut our door and play politics, that is going to take the whole thing out. I don't think we're going to get any refugees for probably another couple of years.

COSTELLO: Five Syrians have been detained in Honduras who traveled with fake passports to the country's capital. A police spokesperson says he thinks they planned to travel to the United States. Does this concern even you?

DAGHISTANI: It does concern me. You know, these young kids are risking their lives to get to alive, and you just saw the picture of that family and young boy that died. Because when we don't let them come in a real way that we vet them, they're going to risk their life. I am concerned, absolutely.

COSTELLO: And just the last question for you, sir, about the rhetoric right now concerning Syrian refugees and Muslims in general. How do you feel about that? And does that increase your anxiety?

DAGHISTANI: Yes. You know, history repeats itself. In World War II, we took the Japanese, we thro them in camp like they -- they were responsible with Pearl Harbor. And after 9/11, we Syrian-American or American Muslim, I'm sorry, got very marginalized and we are in the corner right now trying to defend our belief and ourself for something we didn't do. This is our common enemy. We are not the enemy here.

COSTELLO: Dr. Daghistani, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

I'll be right back.

[09:44:05]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage here from Paris. One of the most gripping accounts of the massacre at Bataclan Theater last Friday night was posted on Facebook by a young South African woman who survived. Her name is Isobel Bowdery. She survived by pretending that she was dead. I had chance to sit down with Isabel and her boyfriend Amarid Boudouin (ph) and listen to their thoughts about that terrible, terrible night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Do you feel hate?

ISOBEL BOWDERY, SURVIVED MASSACRE BY PLAYING DEAD: None. That's what they want. They want us to fear. They want us to hate, that it's so important to remember how many more great people there are than bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FRENCH). No, no.

(via translation): No, because it's absurd. I feel secure in Paris. It's absurd, but not really. The police did incredible work. No, it would be more dangerous to have everyone armed than not.

COOPER: It's interesting you say to fight this with love. That's important to you?

BOWDERY: It's imperative.

[09:55:00]

It's imperative that we take this horrific story and learn from it, to appreciate life, to realize that the victims of this tragedy don't get their lives. So we live -- we get to live, and we are incredibly lucky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (on camera): Incredibly lucky, indeed, and incredibly strong. Our coverage of the breaking news out of Paris continues after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news. COSTELLO: And good morning to you.

[10:00:00]

I'm Carol Costello in New York. We have breaking news out of Paris. The ringleader of the Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, has been killed. That's according to the French prosecutor's office, so let's head to Paris and Anderson Cooper. He has more. Hi, Anderson.