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Suicide Vest Found in a Suburb of Paris; Donald Trump Says He Saw Thousands of People Cheering as WTC Came Down; State Department Issues Worldwide Travel Warning. Aired 20:00-21:00 ET

Aired November 23, 2015 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:06] JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Good evening. John Berman in for Anderson.

We have new developments tonight in Paris, Brussels and late today here at home. Something that really hits hard this week when so many people plan to travel.

The state department issuing what they call a worldwide caution, warning travelers that ISIS and others continue to plan terrorist attacks. It ended up Paris suburb security forces sealed off streets after investigators found what appears to be a possible suicide vest in a garbage can.

CNN's senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward joins me now from Paris with more on that.

Clarissa, this vest, what's the latest on what was found?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. Well, this vest was found in a suburb of Paris called (INAUDIBLE). And according to our affiliate BFMTV it contained TATP. Now, that is that very crude explosive that we saw was used in all seven of the suicide bombs that went off in Paris ten days ago. It also apparently had metal bolts in it. So clearly intended to do a lot of damage.

But what is interesting, John, is that according to French media, the cell phone of Salah Abdeslam. He is the alleged eighth attacker who has been on the loose since the Paris attacks, the cell phone records of Abdeslam indicate that he was right around this area, right in (INAUDIBLE) where indeed that suicide vest was found just hours after the attacks. So, of course, the question now is did that vest belong to him and did he dispose of it in this trash can.

BERMAN: And what Salah Abdeslam at this point, investigators say are they any closer to finding him or any news on the search?

WARD: Well, really, it's kind of hard to believe, John, that ten days later there don't seem to be any concrete leads where Salah Abdeslam might be. We know that in France along, there have been something like 800 raids looking not just for him but for a larger network that would have been necessary to facilitate these attacks. And of course, we have seen many, many raids as well taking place in neighboring Belgium. You may remember that the last place Salah Abdeslam was seen was just hours after the attack. He was driving towards the Belgium border. We have also heard reports of him showing up in the Netherlands and Germany, though, none of these confirmed. And what French security sources are telling CNN is that really this seems to be an indication that he has had some kind of help, some kind of support, some kind of a network that is helping him to elude capture.

BERMAN: There is some identification issues still with one of the bombers at the stadium, correct, the French still trying to determine who that person might be?

WARD: Right. And today the French police actually took to twitter and appealed to the public to try to help to identify this man. Take a look at this picture, John. So what we know is that he is one of three men, three attackers who blew themselves up at the start. And he is believed to have traveled with another of the suicide bombers along that very same refugee route going from Turkey to Greece then into France through central Europe, also believed to have been traveling on what is likely a fake Syrian passport. But what is incredible again, you know, what we see in only five of the eight attackers have so far been identified and both of these men who blew themselves up at the Stade, regardless of French putting out pictures of them trying to identify them, it still appears we are no closer to having any idea who they are -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Clarissa, stay with us one moment.

I want to bring in Drew Griffin with the new developments tonight out of Belgium, continues to be at the highest state of alert.

Drew, this level four terror alert now expected to last at least through Monday?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: According to the prime minister, that is correct. This serious and imminent threat they keep talking about is going to keep this city on a queasy (ph) lockdown until at least Monday when they will reassess. The only difference, John, is they are going to finally open the metro on Wednesday and the school kids will go back to school also on Wednesday. But you know, he is talking about another week of this with soldiers parading around the streets here.

BERMAN: Extraordinary level of alert right now in one of the great cities of Europe. What about the arrest and charges issued today possibly in connection with people involved in the Paris attacks?

GRIFFIN: Well, you remember last night we were talking about multiple raids taking place. They actually arrested 21 people. They released 17 of them. They have held three and one has been arrested in what we are told is some kind of connection to the Paris attack.

But the officials have been very, very mum what exactly the charges are, who the people that are being arrested. And they are also saying, John, that it's -- the threat is not related to Paris or the search for this eighth attacker. It's something else, although they are being a little bit mysterious on what that is.

[20:05:12] BERMAN: We asked Clarissa about this, the search for Salah Abdeslam, the French connection. What are Belgium officials saying right now? Are they still operating on the assumption he is in Belgium right now?

GRIFFIN: They are certainly looking for him. And every day, when they have a news conference, one of the first thing they say is he is not among those that were arrested. So they certainly are searching for him. Many of the addresses that they have also been raiding are connected to him or his brother in some way. But they have not found him. They are working under the assumption that he very well could still be in Brussels. But they have no idea where he is.

BERMAN: All right. Drew Griffin in Brussels. Thank you very much.

I want to talk now with Clarissa Ward, CNN military analyst, retire Colonel Cedric Leighton and CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank.

And Paul, I want to start with this suicide vest that was found with probably TATP, also ball bearings or some kind of shrapnel device there. What's the latest on what you are hearing about it?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I mean, the thought is that this belongs likely to Salah Abdeslam because his cell phone was traced to this area. They have been worrying for some time about this missing suicide vest where the other attackers basically blew themselves up. It appears they now found it. There will be a forensic gold mine in the suicide vest because it didn't detonate. And so, they may be able to find out some things the about the bomb maker. The bomb maker they think is still at large.

BERMAN: Because bomb makers leave some kind of trace. They have a mark, a signature on these devices.

CRUICKSHANK: That's right. A signature. So they will be carefully looking at that. And it may sort of lead them perhaps to the bomb maker. It may lead them to sort of where the bomb maker found the ingredients in particular stores. It's going to be a real gold mine for them.

BERMAN: Cedric, Colonel, what do you make of the fact that this was in some kind of trash can ten days after the attack, so close to where Salah Abdeslam's cell phone was tracked just after?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it shows that we will need to take a look at some patterns of life here, John. And what that means is we are going to have to look and see what the normal routine is, how often do they collect the garbage in that particular village, how often, you know, do people come by and take a look at these trash cans and how often do people access them?

So it would also be interesting to note if he lived in that area specifically along the streets or if he had contacts that lived in that area. So these are all things, John, I think that we will need to look at and that the police will have to take a very hard examination of because they are going to really help us, I think, find out where he's been during these past few days.

BERMAN: Clarissa, we heard about hundreds of raids over the last ten days, several people have been arrested both in France and Belgium. But so far, no direct contacts, there are not many direct contacts of the actual cells themselves. Do you have a feeling that investigators think they are reaching the ends of these groups that were directly involved with the attacks?

WARD: No, I don't think that at all. In fact, I think quite to the contrary, it seems like the more they are pulling on these threads, John, the more they realize that this network stretches further than they thought.

Let's just look at the raids in Saint-Denis for example where the alleged ringleader of these attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was killed along with his 26-year-old cousin, (INAUDIBLE). We are now learning after days of thinking that the female cousin was responsible for detonating the suicide vest, we now learned that there was a third person in the apartment. And that it was he who detonated that explosive vest and yet, we have no idea who he is.

Now what does that say about how far along investigators are? Obviously, there is a sense they are not going to share all the information that they are getting in with the media. But there is also a sense, I would say, of real concentration here in Paris and across France that as days progress and weeks turn into, you know, soon to be two weeks and there is very little tangible results in terms of real progress, identifying all of the attackers, identifying the third man who was killed in that apartment who was also wearing an explosive vest, identifying the bomb maker and capturing the eighth attacker, Salah Abdeslam.

BERMAN: And Paul, along those lines, your sources telling you that fears that exist in Brussels right now and in Belgium, this unprecedented level of the terror alert, level four goes way beyond Salah Abdeslam, way beyond the manhunt of this one guy.

CRUICKSHANK: The concern is there is another attack team out there. The concern is that that attack team is plotting a Paris-style attack in Brussels. There was specific information that clearly came in on Friday for the Belgians to raise this alert level to maximum to keep it at maximum. I don't think they would have done that if they knew who was involved, which direction this was coming from and what was being planned. If they knew those things, they would be able to move forward and make arrests.

If you look back at the plot they thwarted in eastern Belgium in (INAUDIBLE) in January, there was no alert that went out before that. They just went in and arrested them. And the reason was they had a really good handle in it. They had been doing 24/7 surveillance on that group for a number of weeks. In this case, they do not have a good light of where this is coming from. In the light of the Paris attacks, they had no choice but to issue this maximum alert.

BERMAN: Cedric, the worldwide travel caution now going out to U.S. travelers. Do you get the sense that here in the United States they are doing that because they have specific information, or do you think they might be doing it because of what they might fear they don't know?

LEIGHTON: I think it's the ladder, John. I think it is the fear of what they don't know. Our intelligence is very good but it wasn't good enough to thwart the Paris attacks and there is a great deal of concern within the intelligence community and law enforcement community that they don't know enough and that they are going to be surprised by whatever the next terrorist attack is. So they are using this as a precautionary means to actually make people aware. And also make sure that the security forces and the TSA agents and similar people are really engaged actively engaged in looking for people and looking for suspicious behavior behaviors.

BERMAN: And Clarissa, back to the ground in France right now, it is striking that they put this photo out of the stadium attacker asking for people to come and help. Do you know this man? What does that say to you about the state of the investigation? And do you get the sense that people in France are helping, particularly in some of these communities where there is not a lot of trust in the police and the French government?

WARD: Well, this is a big part of the problem that French authorities are facing. You know, we interviewed the woman living two floors below Abaaoud in Saint-Denis in that apartment building where the raid took place. And I said are you telling me that you didn't notice him even if had been there a few days. And she said listen, lady, when you live in a neighborhood like this, you don't look at people. You mind your own business. You keep your head down and you get on with your life. And there is a real sense especially in neighborhoods like that of mistrust between the authorities and between locals.

A lot of people we interviewed after hearing that Abaaoud was killed, they told us they didn't believed that he was dead which was almost astonishing to hear. So I do think, though, French people really concerned, John. They are not able to, you know, loiter out when they are dropping their kids off at school now, the kids have to have their bags checked. They have been told not to stand and gather at the entrance of the schools. They are not able to even hold demonstrations. Really things that are the fabric of French life. So there is a real sense of concern here and, of course, most people want to do anything they can to --.

BERMAN: There is (INAUDIBLE) of protocols and after kids going to school now, simply terrifying to have (INAUDIBLE).

Clarissa Ward, Cedric Leighton, Paul Cruickshank, thank you so much.

Just ahead, Donald Trump says he watched thousands and thousands of people in the United States cheering as the world trade center fell. This was a horrible, horrible thing, if it were true. So is it? He just spoke out about it again late tonight. We will keep him honest.

And later, the NYPD is active shooter drill in the New York subways over the weekend that got a lot of people's attention. We will look at how police have been rethinking how to deal with would be mass killers up ahead on 360.


[20:22:07] BERMAN: Keeping them honest tonight on what Donald Trump says he saw on September 11th and said yet again just moments ago at a campaign rally. The reason simple, anyone who invokes that horrible moment taps into a deep well spring of hurt and anger. It's not unreasonable there for to expect him or her to use that rhetorical power wisely and truthfully. This is what Mr. Trump says he witnessed.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hey, I watched when the world trade center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down, thousands of people were cheering so something is going on. So something is going on. We got to find out what it is.


BERMAN: That was Saturday at this campaign event in Alabama. Thousands and thousands of people he says he saw, thousands and thousands he says he watched as one of the twin towers collapsed. As you would imagine, it didn't take long for the fact check to begin. It turned up nothing. But yesterday, Trumps was being challenged on this by ABC's George Stephanopoulos and then admitting he didn't actually see it firsthand. He says he saw it on television.


TRUMP: It did happen. I saw it. It was on television.


TRUMP: George, there were people cheering on the other side of New Jersey where you have large Arab populations. They were cheering as the world trade center was came down. I know it might not be politically correct to you to talk about it, but there were people cheering as that buildings came down, as those buildings came down. And that tells you something. It was well-covered at the time, George. Now, I know they don't like to talk about it, but it was well covered at the time.


BERMAN: So keeping them honest. There is no evidence what he says happened actually happened, none. "The Washington Post" fact checker gave it the lowest rate for truthfulness. Jersey City's mayor Steven Fulop tweeted either @realDonaldTrump had memory issues or willfully distorts the truth. Either which should be concerning for the Republican Party. Mayor Fulop is a Democrat. He is considering running for state-wide office.

George Pataki is a Republican, a presidential candidate, and he was governor of New York at the time. He tweets, not sure what luxury spider hole @realDonaldtrump was hiding in on September 11th, but I saw Americans come together that day.

Today Mr. Trump tweeted demanding an apology from "the Washington Post." He linked to a post story a week after the attack to make his case. In the 15th paragraph that story does report that law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river. Keeping them honest. The reporter who wrote it says he doesn't recall anything coming of those arrests, does not remember witnesses speaking of large groups of people celebrating, does not remember thousands or even hundreds of people reacting that way.

The police commissioner in Patterson New Jersey which is both home to a large Muslim population has also been the focus of conspiracy theories about 9/11 celebrations. He is even blunter. That is totally false. That is patently false, he tells the Post. That never happened. There were no flags burning, no one was dancing. That is B.S. No celebrations and no video celebrations, not in our tape or (INAUDIBLE) or anyone as best we can tell that shows what Donald Trump says he watched. And when until late today Ben Carson also says he also watched. Then shortly before airtime, Dr. Carson says what he really saw was this, Palestinians in the Middle East celebrating as some people did in some parts of the world, not just here. Just not thousands or just not on camera or anywhere else in this country.

Just moments ago at a rally in Columbus, Ohio, Mr. Trump stood behind his claims and referred back to the Washington Post story.


[20:21:00] TRUMP: One of my people comes in, this is a story from "the Washington Post" on September 18th, a week later 2001. And holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river. OK? "Washington Post." "Washington Post."


BERMAN: Again, the Post reporter says that nothing ever came of those arrest and it certainly was not thousands and thousands of people or even hundreds of people.

Joining us now, CNN political commentators Jeffrey Lord and Van Jones. Jeffrey is a Trump supporter, a former Reagan White House political director. Van is former senior Obama advisor. Also with us is Republican consultant Katon Dawson, a former Rick Perry supporter.

Jeffrey, were there thousands and thousands of people celebrating the fall of the twin towers in Jersey City? Did it happen? Did it happen?

JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: John, you're going to be shocked to hear me say that this is exactly what's wrong with the media. The fact of the matter is that September 18th article says quite clearly that Jersey City has been a hot bed for potential terrorist activity. It was the location where a Muslim cell planned the 1993 bombing of the world trade center. The FBI swept in there after 9/11, went through ten towns in New Jersey, according to this article. So the notion that there's nothing going on here that Donald Trump has made some huge mistake is false.

What is accurate maybe the numbers of people are at issue, but it's very clear in this article that it was said that there were numbers of people, "the Washington Post" phrase, the fact checker for "the Washington Post" got it wrong. The people at power line who discovered this got it right.

BERMAN: Were there thousands and thousands of people that Mr. Trump saw celebrating the twin towers fall?

LORD: Numbers of people is with "the Washington Post."

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is so terrible. This is terrible.

BERMAN: Go ahead, Van.

JONES: I just want to say this is just terrible. You have a presidential candidate who is deliberately stoking fear and smearing a whole population of people. You have --

LORD: We're not talking about Hillary Clinton here, Van.

BERMAN: Jeffrey, hang on. Let Van talk.

JONES: You have a political candidate, your candidate, you come on night after night and defend. No matter what despicable, horrible, un-American, racist, and terribly things he says, you defend him. At some point do you have no shame? He said there were thousands of Arabs out there and there is not one picture in a world where you got cell phone cameras, you got video cameras from coast-to-coast, not one picture, not one image. This is (INAUDIBLE). And somebody is going to go hurt some Muslim as result of this kind of hatred. This is wrong.

BERMAN: Hey, Katon, let me bring you in - Hang on, Jeffrey. Katon, let me bring you in here because you're Republican. You are watching, you know, the Republican primaries play out. Do you think that Donald Trump has a case here?

KATON DAWSON, NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Let me get in between Van and Jeffrey, which is a real uncomfortable place to be for a good Republican from South Carolina.

You know, what it is, Donald Trump has been outlandish and outrageous for quite some while. And I think what most people are missing is that base number of 25 percent that Donald carries with him of support doesn't really care what the media says and that's -- if you look at the polls lines from the last debate, if you will take a look and see the biggest polls lines is when Chris Christie went after the media. So no matter how we reported or whether George Stephanopoulos unpatched it, the fact that Donald Trump exaggerates greatly on most issues and most things, does start a conversation. And I like Van and then I hear Jeff. I mean, it is a little outrageous to be able to exaggerate as much as the Donald does, but he starts a conversation that I heard at the gas station tonight when I asked somebody very familiar, did you heard what Donald Trump said in New Jersey and the answer was, it might not have been New Jersey but I remember seeing them in Iran burning our flag.


[20:25:04] BERMAN: The difference between Iran and New Jersey and anywhere in the Middle East, New Jersey is huge. It's night and day and you say hang on, hang on, Katon. I want to get back to Katon on this. Katon, you say that, you know, voters have a problem with the media? That's one thing. But do they have a problem with the truth?

DAWSON: Well again, as I said, it's the way it filterers down. And I think the media sometimes thinks everybody takes it exactly the way we report it. You know, people were today and yesterday, it starting to filter in. Donald's numbers are getting softer in South Carolina, so are Carson's. And the voters are starting to pay a fair amount of attention to the later (ph). The tragedies in France, terrorism, foreign policy and I think and I hope will have a serious conversation in the future about what is one of our Republican candidates will be the best leader and be the best candidate against Hillary Clinton.

BERMAN: What Katon has said, Jeffrey, is that sooner or later Republicans will sober up and that will hurt Donald Trump and Ben Carson. I think you probably disagree. I think you might suggest that their liking what they are drinking.

LORD: Katon is trying to raise money to stop Donald Trump and has failed as I understand it lately.

I want to say one thing, John. You know, in 2009 after the Fort Hood shooting right here on this program, Drew Griffin did an investigative report about the 96th street mosque in New York City where the imam was saying on camera, they are all about peace. But outside the mosque, American-born Muslims were preaching the gospel of 9/11. They were big on Osama bin Laden. They won an Islamic caliphate. They, you know, they hated --


JONES: Despicable. It's wrong for you to do this.

JONES: They were Native Americans. This was right here on this show.

BERMAN: All right --

JONES: Right here on this show. I'm not making this up.

BERMAN: I know you're not making it up. And in fact, I have Drew Griffin here with us right now who did that report. I think Drew has been with us. He is listening from Brussels right now. Drew, did that report have anything to do with thousands and thousands

of people cheering the day the twin towers went down?

LORD: That's not the point, John.

BERMAN: Well, hang on. Let --

GRIFFIN: John, we did a series -- John, we did a series of reports on a group called revolution Muslim which was under investigation by the FBI. They were, in fact, three very misfit men who were out on the street corner yelling just like any crazies yelling on a New York street corner trying to rise up some kind of sympathy for their cause as people were leaving prayers from that mosque. The imam correctly, his name was (INAUDIBLE), detested them being there. Thought their behavior was despicable. I never saw any support of those three misfits beyond their little blog which eventually got them all arrested. So it was a very, very small group. And like I said --

JONES: One thing that is very important --

BERMAN: All right. Hang on, Drew. Go ahead, Van.

JONES: One thing that is very important. Listen, every single time a Muslim extremist or a jihadi does something horrible, we ask every Muslim ever born from the crib to 97 years old to denounce that kind of activity. At what point can we start asking every Republican to denounce this would be scapegoating and demagoguery.

It is completely different people in other countries doing horrible stuff or three nuts doing something or couple of arrest than to say that thousands and thousands of people. At what point are Republicans going to have to stand up and say we do not accept this sort of hate mongering in our party?

BERMAN: Jeffrey, I want to give you the last word here because, yes, there that was report as you said that Drew Griffin did. But Drew says it was three people, not thousands and thousands. Jeffrey, hang on, Jeffrey, hang on. Because you made your point. And I understand you were trying to infer or interpolate what Trump was saying but at what point does he need to get the facts right? Are facts going to matter if they don't matter now in the primary, will they matter in the general election?

LORD: You know, if facts matter, then Hillary Clinton wouldn't be a candidate for president, would she? She flat out lied about what happened in Benghazi.

JONES: Don't change the topic.

LORD: That is not an exaggeration. That is a lie. So if we are going to hold Donald Trump to a standard for exaggeration, then heavens, a sitting secretary of state, what is she doing now running for president?

BERMAN: So your answer, Jeffrey, is the truth shouldn't matter in the primaries or general. LORD: I'm saying the truth should always matter. But we need to

understand what's going on and we need to understand how the media presents these issues and wants to focus on some things and on not others. That's what we need to understand.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Lord, I have a sense this discussion will continue.

Jeffrey, thank you. Katon Dawson, thank you very much. Van Jones, appreciate it.

JONES: You bet.


BERMAN: Just ahead, Anderson reports on what New York and other cities are doing to prepare for an attack like the one in Paris.


Multiple shooters striking multiple targets. Unleashing chaos. The United States, is it ready and what keeps law enforcement here up at night worrying.


BERMAN: Again, the breaking news tonight. The State Department issuing a warning about worldwide travel in light of the ongoing ISIS threat, and in New York over the weekend, a training drill planned before the attacks in Paris and Mali took on new urgency. Local and federal law enforcement agencies and emergency responders were involved in the active shooter simulation underground on a subway platform. The drill was reportedly tweaked at the last minute to include elements of the Paris attacks.

The coordinated strikes in Paris carried out by terrorists at multiple locations as well as the attacks in Mali are deadly examples of what American law enforcement calls active shooter cases, situations where gunmen are intent on killing as many people as possible, and often are still shooting when the police arrive on the scene. In a report for "60 Minutes" Anderson took a close look at what New York and other U.S. cities are doing to prepare for this type of terrorist attack.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: What happened here a week ago Friday is law enforcement's worst nightmare, multiple shooters attacking multiple locations, stretching the resources of police and crippling a city.


There was only one active shooter attack in the United States in 2000, but by 2015, there were more than one a month. They usually involve just one gunman, but American law enforcement has been expecting a Paris-style attack in the U.S. for years. BILL BRATTON: In American policing, we have no answer for why we

don't have more of these events and why we don't have more that are very specifically put on by terrorists' related activist.

COOPER: New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said the NYPD has been preparing for that kind of attack ever since the 2008 terror strike in Mumbai, India that killed 173 people and shut down a city of more than 18 million for three days.

(on camera): What did you learn from Mumbai?

BRATTON: The idea of the multiple shooters, consciously going in a lot of different directions.

COOPER: Multiple shooters, multiple locations.

BRATTON: Multiple - had bombs in taxi cabs, railway station, the hotel. We also learned that these people are going to take hostages only for the purpose of media attention. They are going to kill them. They are not interested in negotiating to surrender. They are negotiating just to extend the span of time that you and the media are going to cover what they are doing. So that's a very significant change where we normally try to rescue the hostages through negotiation.

COOPER: After Mumbai, you fully anticipated we're going to see that here in the United States?

BRATTON: That's correct.

COOPER: And you still believe that?

BRATTON: Still believe it. And that's why we prepare for it.

COOPER (voice over): The New York Police Department is so concerned about a Paris and Mumbai-type attack, they are retraining all 35,000 police officers in the city.

BRATTON: Weapon is now loaded, finger off the trigger. All start.

COOPER: They allowed us to watch some of what they are doing.

BRATTON: Detective Raymond McPartland is the lead trainer with the NYPD counterterrorism division and says it's critical police move in quickly to stop an active shooter.

RAYMOND MCPARTLAND: The big piece I always tell people is time is of an issue for both ends. The shooter always wants more time inside because that's more victims. We need to cut his time in half, if not minimize it completely by getting there quickly. And that's a complete shift, the paradigm change for law enforcement across the board.

COOPER: Getting in there quickly means overcoming chaotic and confusing situations in pursuit of the gunman.

MCPARTLAND: Tonight you got a shot. Tonight let's change what we are doing here. Because we're going to go in that direction.

COOPER: In this drill, a team of four officers has to stop an active shooter in a classroom full of students, some of whom are already wounded.


COOPER (on camera): Responding officers are told to focus on finding the gunman before they try to treat any casualties. It's also got to be tough because you have hysterical people in a classroom. They are going to be screaming help this person. Help this person.

MCPARTLAND: Yes. Sure. And just a psychological aspect - I mean you go into a school shooting and you see children. You see - this is something anybody is going to want to bend over and do whatever they could to stop that, but what we try to instill in them, is that we need to stop the killing further.

COOPER (voice over): In another training scenario, we watched the police respond to a simulated attack by two terrorists with rifles. Loosely based on what happened in Mumbai. They immediately engage in a gun battle with the first shooter who surrounded himself with civilians.

MCPARTLAND: The issue becomes now you have got a crowded hallway. So, this is how they are going to have to deal with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have clothing on the floor.

MCPARTLAND: If you notice, on the floor there is a bag. At the very least we should start thinking IED, explosive device. These are something we are concerned about.

COOPER: For the first officers on the scene, information is limited and often contradictory. With every second that passes, more people could be dying.

(on camera): The adrenaline is pumping so much that it changes the way you think and it changes your judgment.

MCPARTLAND: It's a survival instinct. There is a man with a gun that's in that room, and he's trying to kill other people. And under stress, the idea of stress science is fascinating when it comes to our world, because your vision goes down to that 17 percent under stress.

If I said long guns. If I said tactical gear and I said terrorism, what's the one thing you should also be thinking about?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: IEDs. Thinking about bombs.

COOPER (voice over): Afterwards Detective McPartland reviews the exercises with the officers, and asks them about the bag that was left in the hallway.

MCPARTLAND: I didn't notice the bag.

COOPER (on camera): If you had noted that that was an IED in that bag, would you still keep going for the shooter?

MCPARTLAND: Unfortunately, yeah. If we had to stop for every bag we found, then obviously, we would have a problem because we would never get to that guy.

COOPER (voice over): A number of American cities have been retraining their police in a similar way. Washington D.C. police Chief Cathy Lanier says their preparations have taken on new urgency since ISIS made a threat this week to launch attacks in Rome and Washington.

KATHY LANIER: People say, you know, what is it that keeps you awake at night? It's not all the things that we train for and we know about. It's the one thing that we haven't yet thought about. What is it that we're missing?


BERMAN: So, what are they missing? Just ahead, Chief Lanier tells Anderson what scares her even more than the ISIS terrorists who attacked Paris.



BERMAN: With Belgium on the highest state of alert, a possible suicide vest found in Paris and the State Department now warning about the threat to travelers from ISIS, it is a very different world from before November 13th. The Paris attacks were law enforcement's worst nightmare. Multiple shooters attacking, multiple locations, stretching the resources of police and crippling a city. A nightmare that U.S. law enforcement officials fully expect to see one day on U.S. soil. They have been preparing learning valuable lessons from terror attacks across the globe and here at home. As you hear at the moment, the Columbine Massacre was a game changer. Here is part two of Anderson's report for "60 Minutes."


LANIER: People say, you know, what is it that keeps you awake at night? It's not all the things that we train for and we know about. It's the one thing that we haven't yet thought about. What is it that we are missing?

COOPER: We've now seen a number of people who are just ideologically motivated who say they support ISIS, but may have no actual direct connection with a group like ISIS, but just - they watched the videos and they decided to --

LANIER: Even scarier.


COOPER: Scarier?

LANIER: Less trip wires. Less opportunity for us to intercept. I don't think you're going to stop the shootings. I think that a person who's committed to carrying out an act of violence like this is going to carry that act out. How successful they are and how many people they kill we can try to intervene on.

COOPER: Police department started to take a serious look at how they respond to active shooters after the attacks at Columbine High School in 1999.

(on camera): Columbine was a real turning point in terms of reassessing strategy in active shooter situation.

LANIER: Yes, it was huge. So we based a lot of our training for active shooter response at the local law enforcement level. We based a lot of our training on Columbine.

(voice over): In Columbine, two troubled teenagers freely roamed the school killing 12 students and a teacher while outside hundreds of law enforcement personnel set up a perimeter and waited for 45 minutes before going in.

LANIER: And I very distinctly remember a parent being interviewed said what were they waiting for? They have guns. My kids don't have - None of our kids had guns.

COOPER (voice over): In the recent Paris attack here at the Bataclan concert hall, police waited 35 minutes outside for the tactical team to prepare before going in. A U.S. law enforcement source described that as a familiar old American model that's been abandoned. Columbine taught police they have to get in fast despite the fact that SWAT team might not be there.

LANIER: This is a homicide in progress. You can't wait for backup. You can't wait for the SWAT team. You are the only thing that can stop that shooting. You have to get in there and do it.

COOPER: That's what Washington D.C. police did in 2013 at the Navy Yard when a mentally ill employee began shooting his co-workers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an active shooter. A male with a shotgun, multiple shots fired. Multiple people down.

LANIER: Our first call to 911 came in 1:36 after the first shots fired. We already had multiple people that were shot at that point.

COOPER: Chief Lanier learned a number of lessons from the police response at the Navy Yard shootings. Some of the rifles police had were too big for the narrow corridors the shooter was moving through and the sound of fire alarms made it difficult to determine where shots were being fired from.

LANIER: The flashes you see are the fire alarms. The fire alarms went pulled, the fire alarms are going off, it's loud and then you've got gunshots being fired and they are trying to narrow down where the gunman is. So they can get to the gunman and stop the shooting.

COOPER: It took police an hour and nine minutes to kill the shooter.

(on camera): And of the 12 people who were killed, the first ten were killed how quickly?

LANIER: Six minutes.

COOPER: That fast.

LANIER: That fast.

COOPER (voice over): According to the FBI, 60 percent of active shooter attacks are over before police ever arrive. So now, law enforcement agencies throughout the country are trying to educate the public on how to survive on their own.

LANIER: Your options are run, hide or fight.

COOPER (on camera): That's what you tell people they should do.

LANIER: Yes. What we tell them is, the facts of the matter is that most active shooters kill most of the victims in ten minutes or less and the best police department in the country is going to be about a five to seven-minute response. I always say, if you can get out, getting out is your first option, your best option. If you're in a position to try and take the gunman down, to take the gunman out, it's the best option for saving lives before police can get there. And that's - you know, that's kind of counter intuitive to what cops always tell people. Right? We always tell people don't, you know, don't take action, call 911. Don't intervene in the robbery. You know, we've never told people take action. It's a different -- this is a different scenario.

COOPER: You're telling them that now, though.

LANIER: We are.

COOPER (voice over): It's important to remember that as tragic and scary as these active shooter attacks are, it's highly unlikely you'll ever be caught up in one.

BRATTON: You have a very low chance of being a victim of an incident like this, but what we try to do is encourage awareness. The idea is to have an awareness without creating a fear.

COOPER (voice over): A person's chance of actually having some sort of encounter with an active shooter is like 1 in 2 million. A person's chance of being hit by lightning is 1 in 700,000. Do you worry about an over reaction? People getting too scared, fearful of something, which in all likelihood, they will never encounter.

LANIER: You can be prepared and you can have society that is resilient and alert and consciencious and safer without scaring people.

COOPER: You don't want people to be afraid?

LANIER: That works against you. If you educate people on actions they can take to reduce their risks, then you can save some lives and I think it's irresponsible for us not to do that. I'm not worried about an overreaction. I'm more worried about a numbness to what is potentially a reality.

COOPER: A numbness?


COOPER: How do you mean?

LANIER: Just ignoring it and not preparing yourself. That's not an option anymore.


BERMAN: Preparing for the unthinkable when it's not as unthinkable anymore. Just ahead, breaking news from New Orleans, an arrest after the release of chilling video of a brutal crime interrupted by a bystander turned hero who is himself shot.


He was facing death. We'll show you what saved him.


BERMAN: We have more breaking news tonight, an arrest in a brutal crime caught on camera in New Orleans. This story comes complete with a gunman, a woman in distress, the hero coming to a rescue and being shot and then a surprise. CNN's Alina Machado has the details, we should warn you, though, the video here can be disturbing.


ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The surveillance video released by police is chilling. Recorded early Friday morning, it shows 25-year- old Tulane University medical student Peter Gold getting out of a car, cell phone in hand, walking toward danger. He's just seen a woman being dragged down the street and he's trying to help. Seconds later, Gold appears with his hands up. The man in the hooded sweatshirt pointing a gun. You can't hear what Gold tells him, but police say he's explaining he doesn't have any money. A witness who wants to remain anonymous describes to CNN affiliate WVUE what he saw happen next.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw the guy with the gun shoot the guy in the stomach. I saw the guy fall and then I saw him stand over him and attempt to shoot him, looked like in the face a couple of times.


MACHADO: But he doesn't. The gun appears to jam. Watch it again. Gold on the ground helpless, the assailant leveling the gun, then nothing, nothing other than a look of shock across Gold's face. The suspect identified by police as Euric Cane takes off in an SUV leaving Gold bleeding on the ground. After a more than 72 hours city-wide manhunt, police arrested Cane. They say he had been hiding at his 17- year-old girlfriend's house.

MAYOR MITCH LANDRIEU, NEW ORLEANS: Now he will likely spend the rest of his life in jail as he should. And what a waste it is.

MACHADO: The 21-year-old is facing a string of charges including attempted first-degree murder for nearly killing the young doctor who risked his own life to save another.

LANDRIEU: His courage is an example of the fact that the citizens of New Orleans are not going to turn a blind eye to crime and that we are going to fight back.


MACHADO: Police say the woman seen in the beginning of the video is okay. She suffered minor injuries. Gold meanwhile remains in the hospital. His family says he continues to improve and is in guarded condition. Alina Machado, CNN, Miami.

BERMAN: Amazing.

Up next, an update on breaking news from France.