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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Latest on Terror Threats; French President Hollande to Visit White House Tomorrow. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 23, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[12:30:49] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: We are expecting a White House press briefing in about 15 minutes. The live mics are being set up and the press is beginning to assemble in the briefing room.

This will be a critical briefing as well, because we're expecting a high level dignitary a visit tomorrow from French President Francois Hollande who's going to be visiting the White House.

There will be a lot to discuss in that -- which is this thought that has been raised by the press that perhaps the French president may be asking the United States president to roll back some of the sanctions on Russia over what happened in the Ukraine to try to get Russia more on board in this fight against ISIS in terror.

The White House in its statements has rolled that back and said "Not so fast it's highly unlikely." But I think that's really on a lot of the agenda for the press. So we're going to be expecting a very broad and robust White House press briefing.

And of course, this is Thanksgiving week here in America. It means a lot of you who are watching are going to be traveling on the holiday which also means there are going to be bigger security concerns of course in the wake of what happened in Paris.

There have been ISIS threat that will apparently happened here at home that's what the videos and the propaganda suggest anyway. And the Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson has told us there are no current credible terror threats against the United States.

But yesterday, he joined New York police and other first responders for this.

Take a close look, it looks pretty scary, but thank god it's just a drill. A three-hour active shooter drill this happening at a lower manhattan subway station.

Pretty loud, pretty scary, pretty noisy, pretty effective, they say the drill had actually been on the books for months.

But we want to know how these attacks in Paris may have change things or if they did at all.

I want to ask my colleagues Deb Feyerick, who's standing by here live and CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank who's here with me live as well.

So Deb that's the kind of video that might make people feel a little safer like we're on the ball, we're watching, we're, you know, sure to be right there when you need us. The truth is police can't be everywhere at all times.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, they really can't be. But in light of what happened in Paris, the stakes are very different right now.

There's always a presumed threat. So when we talk about no credible specifics threat, there's a presumed threat. And that's why they are running these drills because they want people to understand that they are ready to respond.

And here's the thing about a drill like this one that we're looking at right now, they will respond within several minutes. Within several minutes a terrorist can do a great deal of damage. And so the theory is, is you're going to have a lot of police officers who are on the street, the first advance will be those who have their service revolvers, the glocks, they will be the first to respond. Then you bring in this high tactical teams, for example, if there's a hostage situation or if there's a situation where they can take out the shooter. But the suicide belts Ashleigh really has changed the dynamic, because now, effectively the messages that being sent is these attackers, they want to die, they have every intention of dying.

Their goal is to take out as many people as they can beforehand. And as Paul Cruickshank will say, "You know, it's not the suicide vest that does do the maximum damage, it's really the coalition of cops (ph), assault riffles, the guns. Those are -- that's what killed people in Paris and that's the big fear.

BANFIELD: And so that's...

FEYERICK: So it's a game-changer.

BANFIELD: That kind of brings in the whole notion that we saw this remarkable video over the weekend in Times Square where the New York City Police Department, and in fact it came up before the weekend, but, you know, it was this big show of force and showed dozens upon dozens of officers all lined up in Times Square looking very frightening et cetera.

But if I'm in the mind of somebody an ISIS, I'm thinking, that's an even better target that group of boys in blue right there. And that's what, you know, it's a pretty big debate right now as to whether this does anything against a suicide attacker.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, certainly a deterrent, and they make the terrorist sort of think twice about launching it...

BANFIELD: Why is that?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, I mean because they're not really killers many people if they're going up against heavily armed SWAT teams, they're going to be taken out pretty quickly and they not be able to kill many people, the terrorist attackers will likely to be seen as a failure, much more likely to successful if they don't encounter police or SWAT teams along the way.

[12:35:02] And that's their goal is, Deb was saying is to kill as many people in a short period of time as possible before police respond.

But clearly, these sorts of drills that that to reassure the public the presence of that is to reassure the public but also to be able to respond very quickly if there is an active shooter situation which takes plays that response time absolutely crucial to preventing, you know, a larger massacres.

BANFIELD: So to both of you, and I'm going to open that question, is this sort of the thinking of the NYPD and Homeland Security, that look, anything you can do to make their attacks less successful, less worthy of braggadocio online because this is so big for them to get the number as high to get the death count high is what they're looking for.

And if you're actually going to be face an assault rifle from a SWAT force and only be able to take out two, three, ten people instead of 50 or a 100, well then that in the eyes of the NYPD, is a success.

FEYERICK: You know, and I was there at the press conference on Wednesday. And they're adding a tactical layer to the entire police structure. And that is so that these teams as Paul says can respond quickly, that they're two minutes away not five minutes away. So they're a minute away, so they can respond as quickly as they possibly can.

So, but exactly right. And that's another thing that you have to think about the new terror threat and that is now, every police department in this country is concerned about the multiple attacks happening at the tame at different locations, pulling resources away. That's why the NYPD is so heavily armed.

But this is our reality now, you have to look at New York as having an element a layer of militarization that is new, because of the ISIS threat. Because some of the people who want to do damage have themselves been trained militarily, and therefore that is going to be response.

CRUICKSHANK: One last thought here, Ashleigh, back in January, the same group have plotted that attack against Paris, launching time against Paris they had acquired police uniforms to try to gain access to the sensitive site.

Imagine these ISIS terrorists dressed up like policemen, and the damage that they can -- then do and then the confusion that will take place from a law enforcement position here in the city light New York or Paris if that was to take place.

This terrorist are very ingenious, it's a huge challenge.

BANFIELD: Have they been instructed to fire on what looks like police officer. Look they're going to be firing on anybody who has a gun, who's firing at police, firing at split decision.

FEYERICK: Exactly and -- but that's how -- that's why they're being trained as well, they're being trained because it is -- it's a split second decision life and death.

BANFIELD: Deb Feyerick, Paul Cruickshank thank you both, appreciated that.

Coming up next, the show of force like the one you saw in New York City really deter anything or does it encourage them how easy is it nowadays for all these terror groups to recruit and train and carry out. And by the way, is a contest among terrorists really what we have to worry about? That's next.

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[12:42:12] BANFIELD: We're keeping a live eye on the press briefing room at the White House, because in just a few moments we're expecting a briefing to start, and since we have a very high level guest arriving in the United States in the way of French President Francois Hollande tomorrow is pretty key press briefing that we're expecting today the kind of things that will be on the agenda.

For the French president's part he's been on a week of diplomacy visiting not only leaders in Germany. But in the U.K. as well, Russia and in the United States as well. So when that happens, we'll bring it to you live.

In the meantime shutting down a city is one response to the terror threats, quite possibly an effective response, but it's certainly I think as you could attest, not a practical one especially if it's sort of never ending as it seems right now in Brussels.

And flooding the streets with police looks very effective. But does this really -- does it deter anybody? Does it deter a suicide attacker? Does it deter terrorists, and are the terrorists trying to compete with one another for the worst kind of attack possible for the bragging rights?

Joining me now to talk about preventing attacks, and routing out attackers Mubin Shaikh who is a former Jihadi himself turned counter- terror operative and Mia Bloom, a professor of international studies and expert on suicide terrorism at Georgia State University.

Welcome to both of you. Mubin if I can start with you. There seems to be this growing thesis that these various terror groups are actually trying to outdo one another as in what just happened in Mali, the Russian taking down of the jetliner. It's to sort of show that there's a leader of the pack. That is really disconcerting when it's always about innocents who have nothing to do with it. But is there anyway to counter attack that?

MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADI: Well, you know, they behave like gangs in this sense right. When there's a turf floor or a drug lord of some kind, always want leader to trying to outdo the other or assert himself as the greater leader, trying to of course bring in as many willing acolytes from the distant franchise population as they can.

This is very dangerous. I mean the tactics that are used to suppress them, obviously were -- I mean the west is running into some problems, because of the implementation of certain policies, but generally speaking the manner in which we can take these groups out remains consistent and remains solid.

BANFIELD: So Mia, if you could weigh in on that, there has been a lot of particularly on the campaign trail of late about setting up databases and registering Muslims, even a suggestion that it might be OK to the have to carry identity cards if you're Muslim and the notion that mosques should be shutdown, some of them if they have subversive activity in them.

[12:44:59] There are a lot of Americans who say that's what sort of happen, we're in dangerous times, others say this makes the time even more dangerous, where do you weigh in on this?

MIA BLOOM, SUICIDE TERRORISM EXPERT: Well, I'm willing to have to agree with the second perspective. Because I wrote a book called "Dying to Kill" a little over 10 years ago in which I discussed what are the elements of making suicide terrorism something that people find attractive and like you are saying that Mubin has agreed with, outfitting which is the group competing with each other is something that will happen when you got since we're trying to get noticed, but the reason it works is not just because there is a lot of groups that are competing, but it has to resonate.

And when we have policies implemented that are anti-immigrant or anti- Muslim, that when -- that ideology is going to resonates. We are making ISIS is job easier for them to the recruit if we alienate American Muslims. And I'll tell you I have been studied terrorism for 25 years now. American Muslims are American, for the most part we've seen one Muslims prevent terrorist attacks than we have discussed, and this is one thing that I wanted to make clear on the show.

BANFIELD: So Mubin, if you could just help me with part of that and that is this. I get it. There has been a great argument that's been made about when you denigrate Muslims, when you treat them as second- class citizens, when you standby when Muslims are being slaughtered or killed or refuse refuges, that's what fire up the bellies of ISIS sympathizers. But at the same time if so much of this terrorist to contact for bragging rights between jockeying terror group, Al Qaeda, some it's subsidiaries and of course, as we know ISIS. What difference does it make how Muslims are being treated? They are looking to kill the westerners in large numbers?

SHAIKH: Well, I mean, I think that's the point. And Mia has said it very, very nicely and on point. This is what they want. They wrote about it. They said in the manifesto called black flags from Rome. They said we would conduct attacks. We will create life so difficult for Muslims. We'll encourage retaliation on Muslims so we can push them into the waiting arms of extremists.

So they have literally wrote this down as a strategy, and yet I can't believe the kind of rhetoric that's coming out of some segments in the U.S., it's really Hitler-like comparisons. I mean, this is not just hyperbole. I know in lot of political exaggeration we see, you know, such in such like Hitler, but I mean, we're actually seeing Hitler like comparisons. Identity cards, databases, WideNet (ph), surveillance. The NYPD tried this. Commissioner Bratton is on record that saying, not one piece of actionable intelligence came from it, so we got to ask ourselves are we really interested in fighting ISIS.

BANFIELD: Mubin Shaikh, great point as always appreciates that. Mia Bloom, also good to have you on the program. Thank you as well.

Coming up next, an arrest in the murder of an Indianapolis pastor's pregnant wife. You'd be amazed that her husband incredible faith and heart of forgiveness.

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[12:52:46] BANFIELD: We are still keeping a live eye on the White House press briefing. We're going to bring it to you just as soon as it happens, it's a little bit late, but you can see the press is ready. So are we.

In the meantime, there's been this break in an American case that has captured a lot of people's attention, the murder of a pastor's wife. Who was shot and killed in her own home, it was a home invasion in Indianapolis, she was pregnant, and now police have arrested a teenager. 18-year-old Larry Taylor who is now facing murder charges. That pastor's wife's name is Amanda Blackburn and she was shot and killed on November 10th. Her 1-year-old son was at home with her at the time, and fortunately though, he was OK. Relatively speaking.

Jason Carroll joins me now live with more details. How confident are the police that they got the right guy?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're very confident, and I think that's what you're going to hear from prosecutors when they gave this press conference at 2:00. And the reason for that is because they say their surveillance video which they say puts Larry Taylor, this suspect in the neighborhood. They also say that he committed and burglarized a home before that, there's a surveillance tape of that they say, and in addition to that, they also allege that Taylor may have left behind some sort of evidence inside of the Blackburn home. So they are very confident that they have their man, and not just one...

BANFIELD: But have too other.

CARROLL: ... but there is another suspect as well, correct?

BANFIELD: So, what's that about?

CARROLL: Well, they haven't released the name of the other suspect. All of that they will say is when I spoke to the police this morning they would only say that this second suspect is somehow connected to the crime as well.

BANFIELD: But now there was reporting from the Indianapolis newspaper that they have two other guys earlier on this crime. Is that connected?

CARROLL: Well, initially they have taken three into custody, and as you know, when an investigation like this goes forward, you bring people in you question them, you find out what's going on and who's doing what, et cetera, et cetera, what we can say for sure at this point is prosecutor say, two people under arrest facing several charges connected to this brutal crime.

BANFIELD: The picture, you know, it just so heart breaking to see that pastor...

CARROLL: Yeah.

BANFIELD: ... might be the biggest heart of everyone in this story David Blackburn he's release a statement about this.

CARROLL: And he does and you can really feel the religious teachings that he has been teaching there when he read his statement. I'll read part of it to you.

[12:55:03] "Though it does not undo the pain we are feeling, I was extremely relieved to get the news of the arrest last night of Amanda's killer. Though everything inside of me wants to hate, be angry and slip into despair, I chose the route of forgiveness and grace and hope. If there is one thing I've learned from Amanda in the 10 years we were together, it's this. Choosing to let my emotions drive my decisions is a recipe for hopeless and fruitless life. Today I am deciding to love, not hate. Today I am deciding to extend forgiveness, not bitterness"

BANFIELD: Oh, wow.

CARROLL: Truly spoken from a paster.

BANFIELD: That's incredible. I, you know, well of course we wish him well and his recovery. He's now with this little child the two of them alone.

Jason Carroll, keep us posted on the development. Thank you for that. I appreciated it.

And we're also as I said before watching that live news conference, there is so much that's going on every moment that we get a live mic at the White House is critical, and the press corps is prepping for a volley of questions against the White House press secretary, and not the least of which is what is on the agenda for this very high level meeting with the President tomorrow and the French President Francois Hollande.

Thank you so much for joining us. Wolf Blitzer is going to watch that live mic and he's going to bring you that live news conference along with rest of his program which start right after this break.

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