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Protests in Chicago over Police Shooting; Latest Information on Paris Attacks Investigation; Turks Shoot Down Russian Aricraft. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 24, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: A lot of breaking news happening. Chilling new information about what the Paris attackers were planning. The City of Chicago right now in turmoil over the police killing of a 17-year-old.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
We have the latest on the manhunt, but I want to begin with the shocking death of a black teen shot 16 times by a Chicago police officer. There is a video right now, the whole thing caught on camera. That graphic and disturbing video released tonight as outrage spreads in that city.
Officer Jason Van Dyke now charged with first degree murder in the death of Laquan McDonald. This, on the day that our new exclusive CNN Kaiser Family Foundation poll reveals what Americans are thinking and saying about race. And what we have learned says a lot about where we are as a country and where we are headed.
This is a look. Take a look at this. Nearly two-thirds of Americans say racial tension has increased in the last 10 years. We have a lot more to come, people gathered on the streets of Chicago. We will show you. But first, I want to take a look now at this. Can we go to the video? There we go.
This is a video of Laquan McDonald. This is police officer's arriving on the scene, the dash cam video. There is no audio to this tape. But this videotape of this dash cam happens right as the officer who is now charged with murder rolls up on the scene.
Six seconds after he gets there. You see the officer rolling up now. Six seconds after he gets to the scene, he encounters Laquan McDonald and shoots him once and a couple times.
Now, according to the prosecutor, every time you see smoke there is another shot. If you don't see smoke -- you may not see every shot because it's entering -- those shots are entering his body. And you see him move and another smoke right there, that is another shot. And then partner of the officer walks over and kicks the knife out of his hand. The partner said he had to ask him to stop shooting so that he could
walk over and kick the knife out of his hand. And then you see other police officers start to arrive on the scene.
So, we're going to discuss this video which has Chicago on edge right now. People are protesting. And our correspondents are out there as well.
Ryan Young, Rosa Flores are both standing by. They're both out in the streets of Chicago. Ryan, I'm going to start with you. The city and the family of Laquan McDonald did not want this video to be released. But today, it was released because of a court order. You were with some protesters, how are people reacting where you are now?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, you know the city very well. In fact, we walked north down Michigan Avenue. We took a turn. We stopped in the street several times and then went up State Street, and then we come quite a bit south. We walked over three miles so far.
This is the scene right now, protesters are actually occupying the front of a police station. You can see it behind us they've been here for about 25 minutes outside of district one, standing out front and chanting.
There are flanks of officers out in front to make sure that no one goes inside. And they've been sitting there peacefully looking at the protesters. The protestors are chanted at them. There are officers on top of the roof who are filming us, as we stand down here, looking at the crowd.
But at this point, they are checking us down. And people have been just watching the officers saying 16 shots, 16 shots. We in fact, have a protester who is walking along with people. You felt it necessary to come out tonight. Why did you want to express your voice about what has happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. I did. I really just wanted to show my support to the community because I'm not from here. But I do go to school here. And it's just a lot of violence that has been going on within this city, and also just within the United States and within the world in general. So, I really just wanted to show my support.
YOUNG: Give me the feeling as people were marching down the street tonight. It seems like a lot of young people were leading this crowd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just feels really, really good just to know that young people are really supportive and really eager to get out there and have their voice heard. And it was really motivational. It was really timid.
Because like, you know, as we've seen before in the news, sometimes things like these don't really go as planned. So, it's just really, you know, you really don't know like what's going to happen next, but it's kind of just, you know, keeping the faith and, you know, just knowing that, you know, the Lord has your back and everything. YOUNG: We went straight from the crowd because we didn't see anything
that wasn't peaceful tonight. A lot of people just walking and just chanting, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.
YOUNG: Fantastic. And that, Don, that's what really we've seen all night as people are expressing their voice walking, now they have collected right in front of the police department. No trouble even when they got to Michigan Avenue, they were walking down the middle of the street.
The police officers did a really good job of blocking off the road and making sure they may be walked up and down the street without getting involved with any people who were driving.
We did see one girl who got caught between the protestors and police and she made a heart sign with her hands and she just asked the protesters -- obviously she didn't want anything to happen to her.
[22:05:07] But look, all the protesters was surrounded her car and make sure that no one got hurt and they moved her car along. Everything has remained peaceful so far. We're all just standing outside right now watching what happens next as the protestors are in front of this police department.
LEMON: The people are expressing their First Amendment right of Freedom of Expression. All right. Ryan, will you stand by. We'll get back to you. Ryan, standing in front of the police department. I want to get to Rosa Flores. Now, Rosa, you're at Michigan Avenue and the magma lots of people out shopping this time of year.
I want to play something for you. This is Rahm Emanuel, the mayor. He spoke at a press conference just a short time ago. He call for calm and he talked about Officer Van Dyke. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAHM EMANUEL, CHICAGO MAYOR: Jason Van Dyke violated both the standards of professionalism that come to think a police officer, but also basic moral standards that bind their community together. Jason Van Dyke will be judged in a court of law. That's exactly how it should be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Rosa, he seems to be saying that Van Dyke is one bad actor. But Chicago police has -- they have been under fire for years for excessive force, correct?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right. And a lot of people in this community feel that something must be done. That's one of the reasons why they're at police headquarters and asking questions and demanding answers and asking for more transparency. That's one of the reasons why we're seeing the video in the first place. But, Don, I want to go back to the video one more time. Because there is one important question that I don't know that we've discussed and that is after Laquan McDonald fell to the ground, did any of the officers go to his aid? Did anyone try to render aid.
We asked the prosecutor today during that press conference. If a police officer had actually gone towards the body and tried to render aid and her answer was no, that none of the police officers went to render aid.
Of course, the ambulance later arrived, he was taken to the hospital and he was pronounced dead at the hospital. But again, 30 seconds, 16 shots. This police officer discharged his entire weapon. And the prosecutor said that he was getting ready to reload.
But that his partner said, hold on, let me try to get that knife, that you were just talking about, off of his hand. And then of course we know that he stopped firing. He didn't fire once he reloaded that weapon. Don.
LEMON: Interesting. All right. Rosa, I want you to stand by. I want Ryan to stand by as well. Both of them are out with protestors tonight, they're out on the streets of Chicago.
Let's bring the panel in this as we continue to look at those pictures of Chicago. Folks are gathering out in the streets tonight. Again, our correspondents are there and we're going to talk with our now.
First is Reverend Ira Acree, a community activist is with us. Jamuel Greene as well, and Jedidiah Brown, all with us. They met with Mayor Rahm Emanuel yesterday.
Thank you so much for joining us this evening. Reverend Acree, we've now all seen this horrible video. It's very difficult to watch. What's the reaction? What's your reaction and the reaction of the community tonight?
IRA ACREE, THE GREATER ST. JOHN BIBLE CHURCH PASTOR: Well, the video is just horrific. Very graphic and very, very painful to watch. I looked at it a couple of times and I refused to look at it again. This really left people reeling. This could have been any of our sons.
LEMON: Yes. So, you met with the mayor, Mayor Emanuel last night. What did you talk to him about?
ACREE: We questioned him. We also told him this is bigger than one police officer. This is about, is there a potential cover up. Three entities of government failed us, the mayor suppressed the evidence for 13 months. It appears that $5 million of hush money was given to a family member.
And this police officer has been on the job collecting a check all of this time. And then you have the state's attorney never filing charges. And all of this only comes because of judge forces their hand. That's the only reason we're talking about this today. LEMON: Jedidiah, tell me how you are working together now to try to
keep -- to keep the peace. And again, we don't -- I want to tell our viewers, we want to be judicious in showing the video and not just show it over and over.
So, if we discuss the video specifically we will show it and we will show occasionally but I just don't want to keep it up the entire time. Because essentially, what we're looking at is someone's death. So, Jedidiah, how are you guys working to keep the peace and to bring about changes?
JEDIDIAH BROWN, COMMUNITY LEADER AND ACTIVIST: We remind in our residence here that it's about what we do next and where we go from here. This is an injustice like I've never seen before in my entire life.
[22:10:03] This kid was only 17 years old. His life was already hard and I feel like he got a bullet for 16 hard years. He probably would have got 17 if he was 18. And I'm trying to get people to understand that we have a culture in our city that does not necessarily empower its people.
So, I'm telling the residents to be angry but make sure they are articulate and we seek to be effective. Destroying where we live is not going to get us where we need to go. But it is time to make sure we don't return to business as usual.
LEMON: The police superintendent there is Garry McCarthy, he's been on the job since 2011. He spoke at the press conference today. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARRY MCCARTHY, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT SUPERINTENDENT: Since I got here I've been talking about changing the culture of the Chicago Police Department in a positive fashion. There are some very good things about the Chicago Police Department that I found when I got here.
We're building on those and we're trying to revamp anything that's negative. And quite frankly, you're almost forcing me to give you the data on our police shootings over the last four years that we've here. They're down almost 70 percent. That's really significant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Jamuel, you and other youth leaders also met with the mayor and you heard what the superintendent had to say. Do you feel that there have been significant changes since McCarthy took over, since Rahm Emanuel has been the Mayor?
JAMUEL GREENE, YOUTH LEADER: You know what, I think that definitely not. Maybe the media can blow up how many deaths are going on and make it look like it's a lot. But in our neighborhoods I know that a lot of teens are dying every single day. A lot of teens are facing a lot of struggles. So, I don't see much of a change since they have been there. But I do think that it has gotten worse.
LEMON: Yes. Well, gentlemen, I want to thank all of you for joining us tonight. And if you can stick around, stick around, we're going to continue to talk about this. But thank you, and good luck and we hope that there is peace here.
But we want to say people have a freedom to express their First Amendment, their right, their Freedom of Expression, their right for Freedom of Expression.
The video that is causing unrest in Chicago, the video from a police dash cam of a 17-year-old being shot, Laquan McDonald, it comes on the day that our exclusive new CNN Kaiser Family Foundation poll reveals some very surprising findings about how Americans think and talk about race.
Plus, we're going to have the very latest on those Paris attacks. Why prosecutors believe that terrorists were planning another even more deadly attack.
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back with our breaking news. We're talking about Chicago. And Chicago is certainly not the only place where Americans are struggling with race right now. People all across the country, men and women, black, white, and Hispanic are thinking and talking about race and how it affects all of us every single day of our lives.
And a lot of what they say may surprise you. In a brand exclusive poll conducted by CNN, and a Kaiser Family Foundation roughly half of Americans, 49 percent say racism is a big problem today. And as you can see, we're evenly divided on that question.
But I want you to take a look at this. In 1995, 41 percent said racism was a big problem. In 2011, just 28 percent. But now in 2015, the percentage has surge to 49 percent. And then there is a very revealing result here, only 43 percent of whites see racism as a problem, while roughly two-thirds of blacks and Hispanics see it as a big problem, 66 and 64 percent.
And take a look at this. Nearly 6 in 10 Americans think bigotry is a bigger problem than institutional discrimination. That is surprising. And a stunning 64 percent say racial and ethnic tensions in America have increased in the last 10 years.
A lot more to talk about with this new poll and we're going to have more surprising results in our next hour. Make sure you stay tuned. But right now, we are focusing on the breaking news out of Chicago.
Police releasing dash cam video of a black teenager shot to death by a white police officer. Live pictures now, people gathering on the streets of Chicago and demonstrating there.
We have correspondents spread throughout Chicago. We'll get to the ground as it warrants here on CNN Tonight. But today, that officer is charged with first degree murder. And joining me now to discuss is Mark O'Mara, Bakari Sellers, and Harry Houck. I'm so happy to have all of you. So, I want to get your reaction, first to you, Bakari.
Good evening to you, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you for coming here in New York and sitting to talk about this.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.
LEMON: It just so happens we're doing this special on race and then this happens. What you see in this video, Bakari, is this just, is this officer's actions justified at all?
SELLERS: Well, I don't think it's justified. I think we all agree sitting here today. I think America watching today, truly believes that it's not justified. But to get to a larger point where we may disagree a little bit.
What I see on this tape is what we've seen is a pattern of young African-American males who don't get the benefit of their humanity. And that's the most important thing. Whether or not you're talking about Tamir Rice or whether or not you're talking Eric Gardner, or whether or not you're talking about Mr. McDonald. The sentence for their crimes that they committed to underlying offense is it's death. And that's the travesty.
LEMON: I was talking to you. I spoke to Sunni earlier I didn't get the chance to talk to you about it. But do you think this -- is this about a bad police officer or do you think that you can't remove race from this particular?
SELLERS: I think and I have been on with Harry and Mark many times before. And I say this all the time, we have good police officers. But on the other -- I mean, on the other hand, you can't go saying that without also saying that you have a Tamir Rice, that you have Eric Gardner, that you have a Walter Scott, and now you have a Mr. McDonald.
And we are tired of turning the page. People in this country are trying -- tired of turning the page and every day there is another young African-American male who is unarmed who doesn't get to have a wedding, who doesn't get to graduate from college, who doesn't get to fulfill his potential, and doesn't get to live beyond this mistake.
LEMON: In this case he was armed, armed with a knife. But does that...
SELLERS: If he was armed -- he was armed and he was walking away. He was more than 20 feet away from this individual's knife.
LEMON: Yes. What do you think, Mark?
MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, you know, I certainly got in trouble one time when I said this. And I said the fact that we are talking about this so much is because it's being seen.
[22:20:01] The numbers do not suggest that this is happening a lot more than it did 15, 20 years ago.
LEMON: I spoke at a lawyer's conference and I said that people were surprised by it. And if you look at the actual numbers, it doesn't show an increase at all.
LEMON: But I think it's this.
O'MARA: You're right.
LEMON: And dash cam video and body cameras the most recent...
O'MARA: And it's happening to that. What's happening now is we're looking at this and people are seeing it and it's coming out from underneath the darkness.
O'MARA: Because this would never have happened and now being seen without a dash cam. But what would happen was what would have been said happen was that it turned on him.
SELLERS: I think that's also -- that also highlights the travesty. Because now you have this, well, how many times has this happened before?
SELLERS: I mean, how many times have we not seen this?
LEMON: That's the point. That's the point.
SELLERS: I get the -- possibly. But there is this...
O'MARA: Once you say constantly.
SELLERS: Yes, constantly.
LEMON: Yes, that's the whole point. It's been happening.
SELLERS: It's been happening.
LEMON: But people have not been seeing it.
SELLERS: And that's -- that's the travesty.
O'MARA: Now we get a chance to see it and it's uncovered.
LEMON: All right. Let's look at the video now. OK. Again, we're going to roll it to just to say but I want to go through this with law enforcement. Let's take a closer look now, all right? So, this is them rolling up, right. It rolls up on the scene. Someone says going that way, go that way.
And then this officer, this officer is not Officer Van Dyke, obviously.
This happens to be the officer who rode up who had the dash cam and the whole reason that probably this officer is being charged with first degree murder right now.
So then, Officer Van Dyke, six seconds he gets out of the car, he is there for six seconds before he starts shooting. So, Harry, you are the police officer here, is this officer's -- is this life in jeopardy to you?
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NEW YORK POLICE DETECTIVE: No. I can't condone the officer's actions at all. You know, watching the video, I mean, I was, when I was on New Day yesterday, I was talking about this case. But I was basically going on everything that we heard about in the news, right?
Now that I have the evidence right in front of me and I could watch it, at first I thought that the officer's first shooting would be a justified. But now looking at this video, first thing has to do, there is no reason at all for that officer to fire those shots.
You can see that that gentleman, Mr. McDonald is walking away from the officer and at the same time he's not walking to a crowded civilians or anywhere. He is going up to a fence area where it looks like that whole area is cordoned off by the police officers.
So, the fact that he fired a shot at that gentleman at that time, you know, was totally unjustified.
LEMON: OK. There is another part of the video. Let's take a look at the second part of the video that we have here. So, after this happens, right, you can see that Laquan, clearly, you can see he's on the ground...
LEMON: According to the State's attorney, after just two shots, and then when you see smokes, can you see the smoke a number of times.
HOUCK: You just see the rounds going...
LEMON: At least five seconds.
HOUCK: The rounds actually probably going through him, hitting the street and that's when you see the smoke.
LEMON: Why would an officer keep shooting, Harry?
HOUCK: He is out of his mind. There is no...
SELLERS: Well, I mean...
LEMON: Let him finish.
HOUCK: ... there is no reason for an officer. See, once you have diminished the threat, he's down on the ground. You don't ever fire at a guy, like especially a knife. You already know you got two bullets in this guy and then apparently, this officer pauses and then fires the rest of his clip into this man.
LEMON: Is that -- could that knife be perceived as a threat?
HOUCK: No. Not anymore, not when he's down like that.
HOUCK: No, he is down.
LEMON: OK. These are military guys.
LEMON: Two military guys who, at one texted and one e-mail saying, 21 feet is a potential for deadly stabbing, increases dramatically. Are you the 21 feet, anyone who is in the Armed Forces knows that. Although the officer had their weapons drawn 10 feet has been proven deadly. If the individual with the knife lunges and is not stopped by the officer.
HOUCK: Yes, Don. That statistic is right.
O'MARA: Right. And when you're often and they do it to get to the person then that's when what...
HOUCK: I've been -- I've been trained. I've been in this situation with a man with a knife. I have been in that situation and I didn't fire and shoot at him. All right. The fact is that, here is an officer with 14 years or 16 years on the street, he's a police officer. He should know enough when he came out of that vehicle.
He saw that man walking away from him, that he had more time. He had more time here whether or not he should take a shot at him. And again, also by watching this video, the other officers are not shooting.
LEMON: At least five other officers on the scene and they did not shoot.
LEMON: Go ahead.
SELLERS: He shot him at least 16 times. It's the same thing as in the Walter Scott case. I'm not sure that they saw him as a human being. And that's the problem. I mean, that is what people are -- I mean, he had to be deranged.
HOUCK: Well, that is an estimate.
SELLERS: Something -- something has to be wrong with him. We know that. But even more importantly, you have -- you have a law enforcement officer who did not see him as a human being and that's the problem. And that's not -- that happens when we see these instances more and more and more and more. And that heightens the level of frustration of intention.
LEMON: Why a year before charges?
O'MARA: That's what I was going to say. There is two questions that came up. One, was he thinking that in his brain he thought it was OK to shoot more than the first two times. If he was even justified somewhat, why could that be possible he would shoot more. But much more importantly is how dare they take 400 days to say that that case which they had from day one they had that video...
SELLERS: They had a murder from day one.
O'MARA: ... we had this -- you know, the Sandra Bose case where they charged that guy in 10 days with that video of him executing some.
LEMON: Live pictures now you're looking at from the streets of Chicago. People are gathering there as we continue this discussion right here.
[22:25:02] O'MARA: And so, we have...
HOUCK: You can't blame the police department. They want to make sure that police department...
O'MARA: So, I want to know...
SELLERS: Well, I mean, let me -- let me just...
HOUCK: They should probably be done. Because I have investigated those cases before, it doesn't take that long. And now looking for a perpetrator.
SELLERS: ... let me talk in just a little politics. I mean, I'm a big democrat. I don't hide it at all. But there is a big indictment on Mayor Rahm Emanuel and I. I mean, his leadership, I mean, the people -- the reason there is frustration is because he thought that maybe if there was an indictment the streets wouldn't erupt. That we wouldn't have some level of frustration.
SELLERS: But he held this tape for 400 days. That's a lack of leadership.
LEMON: Yes. OK. I talked about that a little earlier then some people got upset with me. But I lived in Chicago, right. I lived in Chicago, I've had interactions with police officers in Chicago.
Chicago, to me, by far, is one of the most out of control police departments when it comes to excessive force than any city. I have lived in Philadelphia, I have lived in New York City, I have lived in St. Louis, I have lived in Birmingham, Alabama, I have lived in Chicago. There is a problem that with Chicago police. People have talked about it for decades and it is fallen on death ears.
O'MARA: It was perpetuated for 400 days of waiting in this case.
LEMON: Yes. We are going to continue this discussion. Live pictures of Chicago. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with the breaking news here on CNN.
[22:30:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Breaking news now on CNN. There you see it at the City of Chicago, the streets of Chicago, now people taking to the streets and protesting the death of 17-year- old, Laquan McDonald. A police officer there charged with first degree murder. First degree murder. Officer Jason Van Dyke, 37 years old. And again, people are taking to the streets.
Let's go to Chicago now where CNN's Ryan Young is out on the streets with those protesters. So, Ryan, how many people are you seeing? Where are you, and what are they saying?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, we're walking on Michigan right now, south of Michigan to be specific. And it's about 150 people with this group that is marching through the streets right now. It remains peaceful. They are chanting. It is the same group that was in front of the police department after our last live shot.
They decided to start marching on the street. You can see how they have organized. They stop at intersections like this and they chant for a little bit and then they start walking again. The police block the road for them to make sure that they don't come in contact with the traffic.
And it has remained peaceful throughout the night. Of course, you can see them as they express their anger towards what's going on in the streets of Chicago.
LEMON: All right. Ryan, I want you to stand by -- is out there. So, Ryan, go ahead. What else, do you have something else to say?
YOUNG: No, I was just going to say this, Don. You can watch as they finish their chant. They go there for about 30 seconds and now, look, we're going back up Michigan now. They say they are going to drive this up to the North side.
They have not gone past the magnificent mile just yet. The matter they say they are going to march as far down in Michigan as possible. Police are in front of them with patrol officers and bike officers marching alongside with them to make sure this remains peaceful.
And as they block traffic there has been no interactions between people and the protesters so far. They are protesting and saying, hey, these are our streets and we are allowed to do this.
LEMON: Peaceful protests on the streets of Chicago. Our Ryan Young is there as well as Rosa Flores. We'll get back to both of them in a moment.
Now let's get back to Mark O'Mara, Bakari Sellers, and Harry Houck. You brought up a very good point that we talked about. Rahm Emanuel under considerable pressure, the democratic Mayor of Chicago.
And you said you say that as a staunch democrat that you're not sure why he has acted and made some of the decisions that he's made in this particular case. And then there is the police commissioner Garry McCarthy as well under considerable pressure.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think Mark even mentioned it earlier while we were in break. I mean, this was a moment where you exhibit some leadership regardless of political persuasion or partisan ideology. And Mayor Emanuel just failed at that.
What we did see is what we saw in Charleston, South Carolina where Mayor Joe Riley actually stepped up to the task and brought the city together. Each city is different. Each episode is different. But what we saw today was tone deaf.
I mean, what I got from Mayor Emanuel's press conference was a simple fact that he was going to tell black folk how they were supposed to respond to the video that was about to release.
LEMON: Let's listen to Rahm Emanuel at press conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAHM EMANUEL, CHICAGO MAYOR: We need as a city to get to a point where young men in our community and then parts of our city see an officer and don't just see an officer with a uniform and a badge, but they see him as a partner in helping them reach their full potential.
And they see in that officer a mentor, a little league coach, a leader in the church and in their community, which they are. But we also have to get to a place as a city where officers who patrol communities in our city see a young man not as a potential problem and a risk. But they also see in that young man as an individual who is worthy of their protection and their potential.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, as I was watching and listening to this today, I was wondering if I was listening to a press conference to talk about the sad death of a 17-year-old or if I was listening to a public relations press release?
MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It is a tepid, timid response when he should have been outraged. One of his cops he now knows if he didn't know over the past 400 days, one of his cops executed a 17-year-old with no justification. I'm never the one to rush to a judgment and I don't like speculating.
That video is pretty obvious. That man representing his city should get up and say we will not stand for this ever. If ever a cop does that he will not only be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, he will be executed out loud in front of the public square.
Because we can't have police acting that way. And for a tepid response like that to be given to his community where it sounds if you say like a public relations, let's be nice, let's remember we want to like cops and we want all to get along.
[22:34:58] LEMON: But to me as -- again, and I'm speaking from personal experiences there. Because I was shocked when I moved to Chicago. Number one, with the police department, and number two with the politics.
To me, the mayor was like a monarch and the police had this -- sort of a devil may care attitude about how they treated people. It's a clear case of myopia that Chicago is very myopic and is very insular in the way they react.
This is a problem that happened around the country but I think it is a particular problem in Chicago that people don't understand around the country.
SELLERS: Well, it doesn't -- I can't speak to the politics of Chicago because I'm from Denmark. We got three stop lights and a blinking light.
LEMON: Trust me, it is different than any major city.
SELLERS: But I can tell you something, that Rahm Emanuel, if he didn't figure out yet, as about to figure out tonight that the world is watching Chicago. The world is watching his every moment, the world is watching his police force, the world is watching how they interact with those protesters.
LEMON: Peaceful, by the way.
SELLERS: I mean, this is what America was built on. I mean, the fact that you can have your voice on something is persecuting when something is going wrong.
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NEW YORK POLICE DETECTIVE: I'm shocked there is no violence. I really am shocked.
SELLERS: Oh, you don't have to be shocked.
HOUCK: Well, I kind of thought maybe some -- there might be some problems in the inner city.
HOUCK: Well, you know, the thugs like to use this as an excuse to go out there to cause...
SELLERS: The who?
LEMON: No, I don't think -- you're not talking about the protestors?
HOUCK: No, I'm not talking about these people here. I'm talking to people that will actually go out and riot, destroy property. Fight the police.
SELLERS: I mean, we're talking about two various -- I mean, we're talking about two vastly different things. I mean.
HOUCK: Right. But I'm very surprised that's not going on in the city like Chicago.
LEMON: I think what he is saying is people who take advantage of situations like this...
LEMON: ... to do things that they should not be doing. I want to speak to both of you, is that what you're saying?
HOUCK: That's exactly what I'm saying.
O'MARA: I like to get myself in trouble over here and ask this question. Why isn't the black community more outraged having now seen that video?
SELLERS: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
O'MARA: I think they are. Let me answer part -- let me answer part of the question.
SELLERS: So, let me guess. I hope that was rhetorical.
O'MARA: We just saw 150 people out on the street being watched by CNN. That's not a significant amount of people to me.
SELLERS: Well, let's not -- let's not...
LEMON: Let him finish then I'll let you in.
O'MARA: So, what I'm saying is I would have imagined watching that video that it would have incensed more people as it has incensed me when I look at it, when we've been fighting about the interaction of young black males and cops and talking about it for two years. Why -- I'm not seeing as much response as I thought I was...
SELLERS: We're not asleep. Let's not -- let's not act as if we are. In fact, right now in Minneapolis, Minnesota, you see the same thing going on. The real Ferguson effect is not necessarily cops, good cops not doing their job. The real Ferguson effect you're seeing on these college campuses throughout the country.
So, African-Americans are upset. African-Americana are tired. So, let's not get that confused. But what I can also tell you is that we are damn tired of having to see these images all the time. And it seems like every week, every year; this is just one year away. You see it, it's as if Rahm Emanuel is living in a vacuum.
This is one year to the day...
LEMON: I was just...
SELLERS: ... to the day that Darren Wilson did not get indicted. I mean, how politically inept can you be? So, yes, African-Americans are active. African-Americans are marching in the streets. You're going to see more in Chicago, more in Minneapolis. But I can also tell you that African-Americans are weary.
HOUCK: I mean, Mark is making a really good point here. I mean, if this happened in New York that probably there would be tens of thousands of people on the street.
HOUCK: Chicago is a big city, right? How come there aren't 5,000 people on the street?
SELLERS: Let's not -- let's not confuse that with apathy.
HOUCK: Oh, remember me saying this, it's very -- no, you know, no.
LEMON: We're going to continue on with this. We've got more on this. We have more on our race poll and we also need to talk terror. You, gentlemen, will be here, we have another hour and almost an hour and a half to discuss this. So, we need to talk about terror as well.
When we come right back, the Paris police say the leader of the terror attacks planned yet another deadly assault and they have identified a new suspect tonight. We're going to go live to Paris for that latest. That's next.
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LEMON: More breaking news tonight. This is on the investigation into the Paris terror attacks. Police believe the ringleader of the operation was just hours away from launching another suicide attack. And tonight, they've identified a new terror suspect. OK? So, take a look it a him.
Martin Savidge is in Paris with more. So, Martin, who is this Mohamed Abrini?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is considered to be a driver that took part of this attack. In other words, you had the terrorist, you had those who directly fired weapons, detonated the suicide vest.
But there were also the people that had to do the kind of logistics and these are the people that had to take the suicide bombers to the stadium, and in this particular case that's what believed happened.
So, that's essentially what he is being described as, as a driver or functionary. It doesn't make him any less comfortable in this terrible, terrible event. So, that was his initial role.
And it's very interesting that authorities have a picture of him and then the other most wanted man, that Salah Abdeslam at a gas station, two days before the attack in France. So, here you got two prime suspects, both alive, it is believe by authorities at least at this point and now very much wanted by the authorities. Don.
LEMON: Martin Savidge in Paris for us this evening. Martin, thank you very much for that. I appreciate it.
I want to bring in Michael Weiss, he is a co-author of "ISIS Inside the Army of Terror." And Bob Baer with us as well, a former CIA operative. So, Mike, I want to ask you. This is the information, this is from a cell phone they go in at the suspected ringleader of the Paris attack, Abdelhamid Abaaoud went back to the scene of the attacks almost immediately between 10.28 p.m., 12.28 a.m. that night. So, why would he do this?
MICHAEL WEISS, "ISIS: INSIDE THE ARMY OF TERROR" CO-AUTHOR: To record his grand success. Remember, ISIS relies on their propaganda for...
LEMON: You mean cell phone video?
WEISS: And you know, just to see the aftermath of the carnage that he unleashed. ISIS's propaganda videos that they've released in the week since the Paris attacks show mostly international media footage of the gunfire, you know, the aftermath of the explosion, victims mourning, you know, this horrible atrocity.
This is the kind of thing that would have given ISIS even more currency or credibility. They would have promoted -- they would published and then promoted their own video showing here we are back at the scene of our crime. You know, this spectacular is a way for them to publicize them to recruit and cultivate new willing executioners.
[22:45:05] LEMON: You say that ISIS released a propaganda video yesterday. This is important to pay attention to this. Why?
WEISS: Yes. OK. So, they are in Raqqah. And what they're doing now is they're using fluent French speakers. They're issuing these Islamic nasheeds, which is the chance that usually accompanied their Jihadi videos. Instead of issuing them in Arabic, they're issuing them in French.
And they're showing what they claim to be the carnage unleashed by French bombers dropping bombs all over Raqqah, reportedly being ISIS targets. But according to ISIS, no, hitting civilian infrastructure and killing Muslim babies.
When we look at ISIS propaganda of adjunct (ph) pro, we tend to focus on their exhibition of their own atrocities. What we do not pay attention to, and this is -- hat usually the bulk of videos and the footage that they put out, they are saying that the West is at war with Sunni Islam and this is -- these are all the innocents killed by American, French, Western aircraft. And this will only increase their recruitment drive.
This is what they're trying to get across. So, it's very difficult in the West to wrap our heads around the fact that, you know, ISIS is barbaric as they may be, why would anyone want to join them? Because their presentation is exactly this. This is a game of more equivalence. We hit them back the same way they hit us.
LEMON: Bob, I was watching the press conference today in the meeting of -- between President Hollande and President Obama and they used different terminology when talking about this terror group. Why is that significant? One is ISIS, one is Daesh, I believe. Why is that significant?
BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE SECURITY ANALYST: Well, first of all, Don, the Europeans have a different view of this entirely. And there is no coherent strategy of what to do about the Islamic. The French are clearly under threat. Their capital was closed down. There are more teams out there, there are more recruits. And as Michael was saying, they are appealing to the French and their propaganda war is winning. And in fact, they are expanding rather than contracting.
France is under a direct threat, we less so, this president is very hesitant to put troops in. He's watched the Russians, the helicopter going down, the airplane, Syria is a quagmire, but frankly, at the end of the day, we don't have a strategy. Maybe because there isn't one.
LEMON: OK. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Again, lots of breaking news here. I wanted to talk more but we have lots of breaking news going on tonight.
When we come right back, Turkey shoots down a Russian war plane. Could this spin out of control? We'll be right back.
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LEMON: Russian President Vladimir Putin warning tonight of serious consequences after a Turkish fighter jet shoots down a Russian war plane.
Joining me to discuss now is Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, Julia Loffe, contributing writer at the New York Times magazine, and Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. Good to have all of you this evening.
I want to start with you, Lieutenant General Hertling. A U.S. official told CNN that a calculation shows that a Russian jet was in Turkish air space with 30 seconds or less. The Turkish government has said that they issued 10 warnings in five minutes. Not clear when those warnings began. But what is the protocol when this happens? Was turkey too quick to fire here?
MARK HERTLING, RETIRED U.S. ARMY: I don't believe they were, Don. And frankly, this isn't just this one incident. There were several other incursions into Turkish air space over the last month or so. There was a one incident where a Mig-29 British radar locked on a couple of Turkish F-16 -- I'm sorry Russian Mig-29 locked on Turkish F-16s.
There had been multiple incursions of UAVs. One which was shot down by the Turkey's government. So, this is a pattern of behavior by the Russians and it's not only been just in Turkey, it's also been in the Baltic States and some of the other NATO countries.
I really believe that Turkey was certainly right to do this. The track that Turkey monitored in their -- in their air space was for a short period of time. They allegedly gave several warnings. But it was also monitored by a coalition AWACS, so we know exactly what was happening, and they were warned not to do this.
Two days in fact, on November 19th, the Russian ambassador was called in Ankara and said, hey, we got to knock this off. And it's not like Turkey and Russia have had a great relationship over the last several decades. So, this was probably deserved. Although Mr. Putin is not going to see
it that way for sure. He is attempting to test the NATO cohesion. And I think Turkey called this bluff today.
LEMON: Yes. That said, Lieutenant Colonel Francona, Vladimir Putin described this as a stab in the back from terrorist accomplices and says it will have serious consequences for Russian-Turkey's relations. President Barack Obama urged Russia and Turkey to communicate about the details of the operation or to decrease the chance of escalation.
Do you think de-escalation and communication between Russia and Turkey, do you think that's realistic?
RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I don't think it's going to happen. I think we're going to see some retaliation from the Russians first. That may be the end result, but you know, the general is exactly right. The Russians, Putin in particular, are pushing NATO on all fronts.
And this is like, he said, this is one in a continuing series of probes of that border. And if you look at the track that was provided by the Turks, yes, they were only in Turkey's air space for 30 seconds, but they did it twice, they came back around; it was on that second pass that the engagement actually happened.
And the Russians have already responded. They cancelled the state visit that is supposed to happen tomorrow. They said from now on all of their bomber aircraft -- and this aircraft they would shot down was a bomber; really it wasn't an air to aircraft.
And they are going to be escorted now by Russian fighter aircraft, which they had a lot of Kia and they've moved an air defense platform on a ship right close to the Turkish Coast. So, they are taking precautions so that it doesn't happen again. So, this has a chance to continue to escalate rather than de-escalate.
LEMON: Yes. So, Julia, how is this portrayed in Russian media?
JULIA LOFFE, THE NEW YORK TIMES CONTRIBUTING WRITER: So the Russian media is doing its traditional thing which is acting as essentially as a defense attorney for the Kremlin. And mudding the waters and creating reasonable doubt.
This is what they did after the civilian jetliner was shot out of the sky last summer over Eastern Ukraine. They did this when the Kremlin didn't want it to be known that the aircraft taking off from Sharm el- Sheikh in October was downed by a terrorist plot.
[22:55:11] They inject all kinds of crazy theories, and say could have been this, could have been that. And you know, they say we -- the, you know, our ministry of defense says that the plane was actually in Syrian air space, it wasn't in Turkey at all, or could have been in Turkey but maybe not for a lot.
So, basically muddying the water and showing that the Russians as being the reasonable actors who are restrained, who are going about their business and the aggressive Turks came in and shot them down.
I do want to add to what one other guest said.
LEMON: Quickly, Julia.
LOFFE: Russia and Turkey haven't had a great relationship not for the last couple of decades but for the last few centuries.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you very much. I appreciate it, Julia. I appreciate Lieutenant Francona and also Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. Thank you very much.
Coming up, we are going to get back to Chicago live, where anger is spreading over the police shooting of 17-year-old, Laquan McDonald. The whole shocking thing caught on camera. Live pictures right now that you're looking at on CNN.
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