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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Motive Unclear in California Mass Shooting; Update on Mass Shooting Survivors. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired December 3, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Do you mean inspired by or directed by? Because there is difference.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE & SECURITY ANALYST: Well -- that's exactly what we don't know. The tactics that they adopted in taking down this place were exactly is tactics. I'm not saying ISIS is behind this and they haven't claimed it or anything like that. But the tactics suggests they were taught in the Middle East or simply on websites and got some sort of training. These are not people who just got mad at their employer and shot the place up. I just don't see that right now.

BERMAN: And, Bob, the presence of a woman there is not something we've seen. A lot here that we've never really seen before, but the idea is the wife was somehow involved.

BAER: I would suspect she was a believer. You know, it's certainly adhered to the Islamic State's propaganda in some way. I think may be evidence of that. We'll have to wait and see. I have never seen a workplace shooting where the wife comes in and drops the baby off in advance and then goes and shoots the place up.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

BAER: And then gets in a gunfight with the police. I have never heard of that, ever.

BOLDUAN: I think that's one of -- and there are so many disturbing details, of course, coming out about this. That is among those disturbing details, Bob, that not only did they have preplanning, not only is this a husband and wife, but they also leave a 6-month-old baby behind. That, to me -- and I don't know better than anybody else talks to some level of dedication or --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: -- or intention or mindset that is not a typical workplace shooting.

(CROSSTALK)

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: We have no evidence of any kind of problems at work. You know, I'm agreeing with Bob here that except for this altercation. And what was that altercation about? Apparently, the reports that I'm reading, he was fine at work. He never had any problems at work. He's never been arrested for. Here's a guy that bought a bulletproof vest. Who buys them? Somebody who is planning some type of attack that does not want to get shot. That's as simple as that. Your typical gun shooter out there does not buy a bulletproof vest. That's a key indicator to me here.

BERMAN: Harry Houck, Bob Baer, thanks so much.

A lot of questions we have to go through here and not a lot of answers just yet. Even the president admits that.

Coming up, tactical gear, long guns, handguns, pipe bombs, the remote- control explosive device, all the new information officials are learning about the shooters and the arsenal they left behind.

BOLDUAN: Plus, as investigators are still waiting to remove the bodies from that massacre site, the survivors are starting their very slow and long road to recovery. A live report from the hospital where some of the victims were taken. We have an update on their condition. We'll take you there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:37:00] BERMAN: OK. We're awaiting a news conference in California just moments from now police will provide new information into the shootings in San Bernardino. We'll have that the minute it begins. 14 people were killed there, 17 people wounded.

BOLDUAN: Dan Simon is outside the Loma Linda Medical Center where some of the victims were taken and are still being treated.

So, Dan, you got an update from the hospital a short time ago. How are they doing?

DAN SIMON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, hey, John and Kate. The CEO of Loma Linda came out and addressed reporters just a short time ago. He told us there are five patients here. Two of them are in critical condition, three of them in fair condition. He didn't really talk specifics about the injuries. They all have some varying degree of gunshot wound. In terms of the surgeries that are going to take place, still waiting to hear some of that information. Hopefully, we'll actually have a chance to talk to some of the family members who will, obviously, be coming to the hospital, no doubt, to see their loved ones.

We can tell you what's happening at the other hospital. That is the Arrowhead Regional Medical Center, and also five patients there. Originally, they had six. One was discharged. One of the patients who is being treated there is a 27-year-old woman named Denise Peraza. Now, denies works for the county health department. She was at that gathering yesterday. She was there to celebrate with her employees, with her fellow employees. And she was shot in the lower back. And she was shot as she was lying on the ground trying to protect herself from gunshots and she was able to communicate a little bit with her sister. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SISTER OF GUNSHOT VICTIM: She said that as soon as the gunfire started, everyone dropped down to the floor. And they were underneath desks and she was trying to shield herself with a chair with the man who was next to her. And then all of a sudden she said she just felt it go in through her back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Well, Denise's husband posted a message on Facebook earlier, basically, saying that she had a bullet lodged in her abdomen. She's going to be in the hospital for a few days and they have to evaluate whether or not there is going to be surgery.

At this point, 10 people in both of these hospitals.

Back to you guys.

[11:39:16] BERMAN: All right, Dan Simon for us.

Obviously, everyone hoping the best for those people who were injured in that attack.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Coming up for us, what drives a man and his wife to drop off their 6-month-old baby before unleashing a bloody massacre at a holiday party? We'll tell you new information officials are learning. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: The very latest on the shooting massacre that left 14 people dead and 17 wounded in San Bernardino, California. Police are right now searching -- well, they're searching the home of the two shooters, Syed Rezwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik. Two other crimes scenes they're in the middle of looking at right now as also. Also, right now, the FBI says those two, they were not on any law enforcement radar.

BERMAN: For the very latest now on the investigation, joining us, CNN justice reporter, Evan Perez; and CNN terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank.

Evan, we heard from the president himself. He said we don't know what caused this terrible event. He said it is possible it was terrorism and possible it was also work-place related and possible a mixture of both. What is the latest you're hearing from your sources?

[11:44:41] EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: I think you're exactly right, John. That is what is driving the fact that the FBI is taking the lead as the president mentioned earlier this hour. There's a couple things that are driving that, the things that just don't add up in this case. This is not like a lot of the other shootings and it's sad to say we have a lot of these in this country. But certainly one of the things that they found at the scene last night was a bag that was left behind at the Inland Regional Center that contained a couple of improvised explosive devices. Three of them, in fact. And they were rigged to a remote control car. The remote for the remote control car was found in the SUV that was found several miles away at the shootout. Now, authorities believe that they were trying to, they intended to detonate that backpack inside this Inland Regional Center to try to kill a lot more people. Either it didn't work, from the distance from the remote from the car, or they never got around to doing it. Again, those are some of the things they're looking at it and it's driving this idea that there are indications that this suspect, Syed Farook, had some kind of beef or workplace altercation yesterday at this workplace Christmas party. He had bombs ready to go and tells you that there is something more they believe. Perhaps radicalization that explains this. This is why the FBI is doing all this work now to try to get to the bottom of this.

BOLDUAN: Paul, as the president said, it's going to be, it is going to be some time or quite some time before they really have this hammered out about what the real motive is. And he led the possibility that this could be mixed motives for this massacre. When you look at terrorist events in past with your expertise, do you often see mixed motives in terrorism?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Kate, we have seen mixed motives before. Notably in Oklahoma in September of last year. A convert to Islam who had become radicalized and had a Facebook page with pictures of bin Laden and beheading. He got fired from a food processing plant in Oklahoma and he went back and he beheaded a female co-worker there. Also, in France, in June of this year, a transportation worker, who was a big fan of ISIS, he beheaded his boss who he had been having some tension with, according to his own accounts. And then drove his beheaded boss to a chemical plant in France come sent a selfie of the beheaded head to ISIS in Syria. We saw several cases in the last year or so where there have been these mixed motivations. Both a grievance against co-workers and, also, wanting to do something on the ground and a more political scale.

Paul, two quick questions. Number one, any chatter online on the websites that you monitor? And, secondly, look, you have this, which we don't know what happened yet to be sure. We have Chattanooga. You have Garland, Texas. You have Boston, that incident where the FBI took down a guy who they say was about to kill some police officers. That is four incidents in one calendar year. Something going on here?

CRUICKSHANK: What is going on here the context is growing radicalization in the United States and a surge in the number of terrorism cases in the United States, more than 50 individuals with some kind of ISIS link, many inspired by ISIS, being arrested in the United States in just this calendar year and a quarter of them with aspirations or attack plans in the United States. This caliphate that ISIS has declared has really energized these radicals in the United States. And also they've been angered by these U.S. air strikes against ISIS, as well. But you also have groups like al Qaeda, who are encouraging this kind of terrorist act through the Internet and through publications which provide techniques for how to build bombs and remote-control detonating mechanisms.

With that Chattanooga shooter back in July, he was actually partly inspired, it would appear, by an American terrorist, Awlaki, the cleric, in Yemen, who was killed in that drone strike a few years ago. Incidentally, just a few weeks ago, the FBI director said they may never provide the motive publicly for that attack in Chattanooga. It may never be publicly known. It will be a long time before we know the motive in this case. We may never know it.

[11:49:25] BOLDUAN: The president seemed to indicate at least the first part of what you said, it could be some time before they know exactly, when they're ready to tell folks exactly what the motive is here. So much more to be learned about this husband and wife duo, these attackers.

Evan, thank you.

Paul, thank you so much.

Coming up, we're going to take you back to San Bernardino. We're waiting for a live update from the San Bernardino police. This will be the first big update of the day on the investigation, on the massacre, and on maybe more information on who did this and why. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, any minute now, we are waiting a news conference in San Bernardino. The police giving their first briefing in, what, 12 hours, the latest on their investigation into the shootings.

Meanwhile, a new look at the frightening scene inside the Inland Regional Center moments after the two shooters opened fire at a holiday party that was happening.

BOLDUAN: You can imagine the chaos and fear. One person captured those events as dozens of folks were being led to safety by police. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[11:55:02] UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Are you ready? If you're not cool --

Thank you, thank you.

Everyone try to relax. I'll take the bullet before you, that's for damn sure. Just be cool, OK?

Move. All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Police being wildly praised for their response here as well, and the takedown of the two killers. You actually heard an officer say there, "I'll take a bullet before you do, that's for damn sure."

BOLDUAN: Amazing. We'll take you back. We'll show you live pictures right now from San

Bernardino. Any minute, a briefing from police. They're going to provide new information on the shooting there.

BERMAN: The latest on the attackers, the weapons discovered at the home, and the victims who have yet to be identified.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[11:59:06] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We're live in San Bernardino, California, as part of CNN's continuing coverage of this mass shooting we just suffered through out here.

I'm Chris Cuomo, in for Ashleigh Banfield. And you are watching the LEGAL VIEW.

Authorities are about to hold a news conference to update us on the latest that the massacre that took place here. Remember, 14 people murdered, 17 more still fighting for their lives in different hospitals here. There's a range of injuries. Information about them is coming very slowly. And, in truth, information to the families who lost loved ones is coming slowly.

It took a long time to get inside to process the crime scene that's down the street from us. Why? Because there was an explosive device inside. There were so many people to process. Police have been doing this the right way and that takes time, but it's been yielding results.

Look how quickly the San Bernardino police, helped by assets in and around this county, were able to find these two suspects and bring them down. So we're going to hear from the police chief, the sheriff's department, and the FBI. There are different federal agencies also helping out here, which gives us a little insight into the different angles that are being pursued.

So what do we know about the people specifically involved, the suspects, the man and woman who shot up --