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California Rampage: Police Describe Being First on the Scene; 211,000 Jobs Added in November. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 4, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:25] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Reporting live from San Bernardino, California. Thank you so much for joining me. Investigators are not willing to call it terrorism quite yet but new developments in the Southern California -- in Southern California raised chilling new questions about what drove a California couple to mass murder.

Law enforcement sources tell us Syed Rizwan Farook appears to have been radicalized. What's more, he was in touch with more than one terrorism subject the FBI was investigating. And they may have been trying to cover their tracks, this couple, this married couple. Inside their home, police find a computer with its hard drive missing and two smashed cell phones are being -- were found near one of the crime scenes.

Also inside the homes thousands of rounds of ammunition and a dozen bombs and the materials to make even more explosives. The photos obtained by CBS News also say the remote control car and unexploded bombs found at the site of the massacre.

Farook's sister says the family, though, is still in disbelief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA KHAN, SISTER: I can never imagine my brother or my sister-in-law doing something like this. Especially because they were happily married, they have a beautiful a 6-month-old daughter. It's just mind boggling why they would do something like this. We can't imagine the loss that everybody has gone through. All the people that were injured or, you know, hurt badly. Our thoughts and prayers are going out to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We have a lot to cover this morning. So let's begin with the investigation. Victor Blackwell is in Redlands outside the couple's home.

What have you found out, Victor?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, it appears that the physical evidence collection here, at least this chapter of it, has been completed here. At this home, you can see right over my shoulder that the window and the front door have been boarded up, effectively shutting down what's been described as the bomb-making laboratory. Now this investigation moves into the intelligence side, trying to get answers primarily to the question why.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL (voice-over): More clues unearthed but still no clear motive. Among the latest discoveries two smashed cell phones thought to have belonged to the shooters, Syed Rizwan Farook, and his wife, Tashfeen Malik. The phones hidden behind a trash bin near one of the crime scenes. Also found, a computer with a missing hard drive. Investigators believe it may have been removed or destroyed potentially to cover their tracks. Investigators now issuing subpoenas to major service providers to try to retrieve information.

DAVID BOWDICH, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI LOS ANGELES OFFICE: If you look at the amount of obvious preplanning that went in, there was obviously a mission here. We know that. We do not know why. It would be irresponsible and premature of me to call this terrorism.

BLACKWELL: Law enforcement sources say Rizwan Farook appears to have been radicalized and had sporadic contact with international terror subjects. The FBI and White House cautious not to rule out any possible motives.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is possible that this was terrorist related, but we don't know. It is also possible that this was workplace related.

BLACKWELL: A raid on the couple's Redlands home uncovering a veritable bomb lab in the garage, 12 pipe bombs, hundreds of tools that could be used to make more bombs, and thousands of rounds of ammunition. These images obtained by CBS News purport to show explosive devices found at Rizwan Farook's home.

CHIEF JARROD BURGUAN, SAN BERNARDINO POLICE: Clearly they were equipped and they could have continued to do another attack. We intercepted them before that happened obviously.

BLACKWELL: Overnight one of the first police officers on the scene of the shooting describing it as an unprecedented tragedy in his career.

LT. MIKE MADDEN, SAN BERNARDINO POLICE: It was unspeakable the carnage that we were seeing, the number of people who were injured and unfortunately already dead. And the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe.

BLACKWELL: Hundreds gathering late Thursday inside San Manuel stadium in San Bernardino to mourn.

As the names of each of the 14 victims were read aloud.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Law enforcement officials say, thus far there's been no manifesto discovered but a law enforcement official also tells CNN that the FBI has begun interviewing Farook's family members and they are said to be cooperating -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Victor Blackwell, reporting from nearby from that Redlands neighborhood where the couple lived.

Sources also tell us that Farook appears to have been radicalized. But there are reports that point the blame elsewhere. So let's talk about that.

[09:05:05] Buck Sexton is a former CIA counterterrorism analyst as well as a former intelligence specialist for the NYPD. I'm also joined by retired sergeant, Cheryl Dorsey, who served 20 years with the LAPD.

I'm going to cough because quite frankly there is smoke in the air. And we don't know where it is coming from but it's very thick so I apologize but it's a little hard to breathe out here now but we think everything is OK. We're checking it out.

All right. Before I get to my guests, though, I want to play part of an interview from CBS this morning. This interview is from a coworker who sat near Farook the past five years in that county building behind me. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you believe that he was radicalized?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. By the wife. I think he married a terrorist.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He married a terrorist?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. So we don't know what he bases that on. But, Buck, I'll ask you. What do you make of it?

BUCK SEXTON, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, given how careful we're being about making any sweeping conclusions here or coming to any conclusions, I think honestly, too cautious and careful in some ways when it comes to deciding that this was terrorism. I think you could say you're 99 percent sure this was terrorism and that you have this one individual who was saying that he blames the wife. We would certainly need to know more than just his word before we said that that was the determining factor here.

But I think everything, if you line this up on a sheet of what you would expect in this kind of an incident, if it was in fact jihadist terrorism, which I would say it's a 95 percent or 99 percent uncertainty at this point that it was, it would all be checked off. And so that this would be one more addition to that. I don't think is particularly meaningful one way or the other except perhaps to get a better sense of maybe how this could have been caught by law enforcement. She passed the check when she came in to the United States. She

wasn't on any watch list or data bases. As we know they purchased their firearms legally. So I'm not sure that there's really a whole lot we can take from who in the relationship was the quicker to radicalize and we'll have to know more about their digital footprint to get that 100 percent certainty that everybody seems to be absolutely bent on getting.

COSTELLO: Yes. Well, Cheryl, police also found smashed cell phones in a garbage can near their home, they found a computer hard drive that was missing. Do those things point to terrorism as well?

CHERYL DORSEY, FORMER LAPD SERGEANT: You know, see, I have a completely different slant on that. And although that they were obviously trying to hide what it is that they were doing, I don't really blame the wife. And I don't view this as a terrorist, jihadist type of activity. I think this is a workplace issue. And I'm not really convinced that the wife was actually a willing participant. She's not here to tell us, right? And understanding the cultural differences, women don't run those households, so perhaps she was coerced or even forced to participate. We just don't know.

COSTELLO: But they had all of that fire power with them. They had covered their faces. Police say it appears that they were on to another mission. That wouldn't just be a workplace violence issue then, would it?

DORSEY: Well, that's speculation that they were on to another mission. We don't know that. And really I believe that if they wanted to really exact more damage they certainly could have in that building. They were singularly focused on the people in that room that were coworkers. There were certainly others in the building that they could have attacked on their way in and out. And we know that there was a significant amount of time between the time that they were murdered or killed and the time that they left that facility. They didn't hurt anyone after they left. So I'm just -- for me this seemed very Christopher Dorner-esque with a twist.

COSTELLO: Interesting. So the brother-in-law who was interviewed on NBC this morning, Buck, said pretty much the same thing. He said his brother was a bad person and he had problems at work and it was workplace violence.

SEXTON: Well, that would seem to ignore many data points. Like, for example, when we're already going through the backgrounds of these individuals, we were told, for example, in the first 24 hours that one of them had appeared to have become more religious and may in fact had radicalized in the last year or two. When you also look at the preparations that they made here for what would be called workplace violence would be extreme. But even beyond that, to be honest with you, the notion that a husband and wife team would be engaged in workplace violence that would be something of a first.

If we were -- as I said, if you're lining these two things up, it is a near certainty at this point that this was jihadist terrorism in my opinion. I know law enforcement is slow to say this. I also think they're slow to say because there's pressure coming from people at the top of the administration who do not believe that right now the American people should be told that there was a jihadist terrorist attack on U.S. soil in the aftermath of Paris. That is why there is so much foot dragging. That is why everybody is saying we can't find the motive.

The motive to most people that I know who've worked in counterterrorism is obvious and clear at this point, if we want to sort of get to that last 1 percent or 5 percent certainty I can understand that. But I think at this point it should be treated as the terrorist act at least and that is how it's being investigated.

[09:10:04] COSTELLO: All right. Buck Sexton, Cheryl Dorsey, thank you so much for being with me this morning.

In the meantime attorneys for the family of the San Bernardino shooters are speaking with CNN and questioning accounts of the massacre. They are doubting the accuracy of the information from police, including reports that Farook was radicalized.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CHESLEY, FAMILY ATTORNEY: I'm just telling you straight out that it doesn't -- it doesn't make sense. It looks like -- if somebody had military training or something, yes. But there was none of that. And this person was not aggressive.

We sat with the FBI for three hours and they tried to identify some characteristics or some affiliations that he might have had that could have led him to act in this way, and they couldn't find anything. They were totally stumped. Totally frustrated. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. We're going to have much more from this interview coming your way in just about 20 minutes.

We also have new details about the 14 people who were killed. Victims like Robert Adams, who married his teenage sweetheart and cherished his 1-year-old daughter. And Bennetta Betbadal, the mother of three who moved to the United States from Iran to escape religious persecution. And Yvette Velasco, who's described as intelligent and motivated and caring. She leaves behind her parents and three sisters.

Last night the president, President Obama, spoke about the victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Their loss is our loss, too. For we are all one American family. We look out for each other. In good times and in bad. And they should know that all of us care about them this holiday season. They are in our thoughts. They are in our prayers. And we send them our love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now.

Sanjay, 21 people were also injured in that attack and I think you've been following their progress.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, a lot of the families have been coming out of the hospital, Carol, and you know, I think just wanting to talk. I think it's -- relieves some of their anxiety. I think it's cathartic for them in some way. And one of the family members, the husband of a woman who survived, gave me some details about what happened to her. And again, it describes her sort of lucky, which is a strange word in some ways to use in this context but take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She finished in the restroom just going back towards the conference room at the moment, got all the bullet was flying towards her. And she got -- she with a few other people hide inside the bathroom. Four, five people together. And she realized her hands are bleeding and her stomach also got hit but these are not life-threatening. It's just right hand was a little bit more serious injury. It went in and out. And the left was much less serious injury. So it's just like a miracle. And two bullets came above her head and hit the wall. It's just a miracle the way she survived.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: Again, used the word miracle. But, Carol, she walked into the bathroom and then came out, and I guess the shooting had already started in the hallway before they went into the conference room, and that's when she sort of ducked back. She got shot three times. But, you know, again, lucky, however you want to describe it from them.

Also, all the doctors that sort of went into the ER, went into the hospital, they hear what's happening in the news, they just go and even if they're not scheduled to work. And this picture was just sort of remarkable. There were four or five doctors at every bed waiting for these patients to come in. That was what it took to be prepared. And as a result in this hospital, Arrowhead, six patients I think they're all going to do well. They're going to be discharged over the next several days.

COSTELLO: That's great news, Sanjay. We needed some great news. Thank you for that.

GUPTA: Yes. Thank you.

COSTELLO: Appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't matter what the name of your city is, you have to be prepared to deal with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: One-on-one with the first responders. They tell me about what it was like to arrive on the scene first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:11] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Police train for this kind of call, active shooter/multiple deaths. Imagine being one of the first on the scene.

I talked with the man who led the operation to stop the San Bernardino shooters. The SWAT team using military style weapons, including the bearcat. You see it there.

If you remember after Ferguson, this type of equipment was heavily criticized. But if not for the bearcat here, who knows? A bit of irony.

Right after the shooting was happening, the SWAT team was in the middle of a training exercise for a situation just like this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SGT. BRIAN HARRIS, SAN BERNARDINO SWAT TEAM: I think we were about an hour and a half into the training, just finishing our second scenario when we heard the radio on the real call.

COSTELLO: So when the real call came through, did you think this can't be --

HARRIS: It did seem very ironic. It almost seemed like it couldn't be true. You know, we're training this and it's actually occurring at the same time. But at the same point, we all recognized that it was a real call and just immediately switched modes and responded.

COSTELLO: So how long did it take you to get to the scene from the training exercise?

HARRIS: Gosh -- I don't.

COSTELLO: It was like four minute, right? It was quick.

HARRIS: We had a quick response.

COSTELLO: So as you entered the building, it had to be intense.

HARRIS: It was very intense, you know. It's the scene of a tragedy. And you just witnessed a tragedy unfold.

COSTELLO: Were there shots being fired as you entered the building.

HARRIS: No. The shots had already -- they had already ceased by then. But it was a tragedy. In the same respect you understand there is a very real threat out there that is willing to do harm to more people and the idea is to get to the threat.

We have a tactical medic with us on our special weapons team.

[09:20:02] And that tactical medic immediately went into a triage mode. He was the first there offering medical aid. And his experience I think probably saved some lives.

COSTELLO: Now, we saw someone's cell phone video and we heard one police officer say, don't worry if anybody's going to be shot it is going to be me.

POLICE OFFICER: I'll take a bullet before you do. That's for damn sure. Just be cool, OK?

COSTELLO: Who was that officer?

HARRIS: You know, I don't know. But I think that attitude carries through the entire organization and the law enforcement community in this area, and that's what -- you know, that's the code that these officers live by. And that is what they are willing to do every day.

COSTELLO: Take me through that process. You get into this bear cat. And what happens?

HARRIS: We're responding to the scene. We trying to get there, we know an officer has been shot. We know it is obviously a highly critical -- or a critical incident in which more lives will be lost so we're trying to get the armored vehicle there as fast as we can, and with the intention of being able to provide some level of safety to the officers that are taking the gunfire, or the citizens in the neighborhood.

COSTELLO: So, as the bearcat pulled up to that SUV, could you see into the vehicle and see what might have been inside the car.

HARRIS: Well, we could tell we had a suspect in the backseat. We could tell that the suspect was armed with a long rifle. Later found to be an assault rifle. But we couldn't exactly see much more than that.

COSTELLO: They had 1,400 assault rifle round, 200 handgun rounds. They had fired 76 shots at officers. Officers had returned fire. They had thrown what looked like pipe bombs out of that vehicle. Stills you are approaching, even with the armored vehicle it had to be nerve wracking.

HARRIS: It is nerve wracking but I mean who else is going to go up there other than the officers that are there?

COSTELLO: Did you ever think this kind of thing would happen in San Bernardino?

LT. TRAVIS WALKER, SAN BERNARDINO SWAT COMMANDER: I think we just live in an age where it doesn't matter what the name of your city, you have to be prepared to deal with it. Fortunately, the men of our department were trained to deal with this to the best of their ability and I think it was on full display yesterday.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: My thanks to Lieutenant Walker and Sergeant Harris and as great as that operation went, you know, they have prevented loss of life, more loss of life I should say.

The day after the tragedy, Lieutenant Walker called all of the SWAT team members into a room and they sat down and went over what they did right, what I they did wrong, what they could do better and how they could be better prepared for the next time because no one believes that a next time won't come.

Still to come in THE NEWSROOM, attorneys for the family of the San Bernardino shooter speak out the CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just doesn't make sense for these two to be able to act like some kind of Bonnie and Clyde or something. It is just ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We'll hear more from their attorneys, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:29] COSTELLO: Welcome back. I'm Carol Costello reporting live from San Bernardino, California.

Before we get into the shooting, let's talk about something else, something, you know, kind of positive. The opening bell just moments away. After release of the strong November jobs report, the U.S. government reporting is more than 200,000 jobs were added last month.

And this is pretty a big deal. The last key piece of economic data before the Federal Reserve decides whether or not to raise interest rates for the first time in almost a decade.

CNN's Christine Romans is breaking down the numbers for us in New York.

Good morning, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Let me run through those numbers for you, because it was another solid month of jobs growth. When you look at here, you can see 211,000 jobs created. But what's really interesting to me is the trajectory.

Look at October, 298,000. This was a number revised higher, Carol, which means that was the strongest job creation in a year. So, this shows a trend of steady, consistent job growth.

What does it mean for the jobless rate? The jobless rate is still here, about a seven-year low of 5 percent, a 5 percent jobless rate. And when you look at job growth overall, you can see now for 2015 on average 210,000 new jobs every single month.

Last year was a strong year for job creation. So was this year. Inside these numbers, wages. Wages grew a little more strongly than we thought. That's good news.

It shows you that an improving job market means people are getting a little bit more people in their paychecks. There were about 300,000 more people, Carol, who are working part-time, but would like to be working full time. For those folks, they would like to see more employment, more hours. We'll to have to wait and see towards the end of the year if this kind of strength continues and people would be able to pick up some more hours, Carol.

COSTELLO: So, what about that federal interest rate?

ROMANS: I think it means the Fed is going to raise interest rates because these sorts of numbers are showing health in the labor market, health in the economy. It means the Fed doesn't have to be at emergency interest rates.

Interest rates, Carol, as you know, when those rates finally rise, the Fed meets on the 15th to 16th of this month, of this December, when rates finally rise, it will probably effect everybody. Home buyers, it will be higher mortgage rates. Car buyers, higher loans. And the anybody with a variable interest rate on a credit card you are going to pay more too. So, it's something that will affect everyone. That's coming soon.

COSTELLO: All right. Christine Romans, reporting live from New York. Thank you.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm live in San Bernardino, California.

A lot of disconnects and unknowns. Those words from a lawyer representing the family of the San Bernardino shooters. That same attorney questioning key facts about that day.