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FBI: Killers Radicalized for "Some Time"; Trump Wants Muslim Travel Ban. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 8, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[10:33:31] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: New information this morning on the San Bernardino killers' past. The FBI says the shooters, Syed Rizwan and Tashfeen Malik, were on the path to radicalization before ISIS proclaimed itself to be a caliphate. But it's still unclear where and by whom.

Pakistani officials have raided the home of Malik's father but what's most stunning is what we're learning about her from a former classmate.

According to this classmate she had a wide circle of friends. She pointed out the boys she thought were cute and spoke about social networks and chatting online. The classmate went on to describe her as not very religious, and she didn't pray five times a day. Very different picture from what we have heard elsewhere.

Dan Simon is in San Bernardino this morning. Dan, what more can you tell us about this?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, authorities say no question that both the husband and wife were radicalized. And they say that in the days before the shooting, they actually went to a target range, ostensibly to practice their aim. We know that a lot of bombs were found inside the house -- 19 pipes used to make those bombs were found inside their house, originally the FBI said the number was 12.

We know that this is a very extensive investigation. 320 pieces of evidence have been recovered. 400 interviews have taken place.

Now, as we reported a few days ago, the father of Syed Farook said that -- he told an Italian newspaper that his son shared in the ideology of al Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS. Well now, the father apparently wants to walk back on those comments.

[10:35:08] This is what his attorney is now saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CHESLEY, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING FAROOK'S FAMILY: We've all been contesting those statements that apparently came out in some obscure Italian newspaper. It's -- it's -- I mean, it's really troubling. He's on about four or five different medications right now. And he says that he's not made -- he never recalls having made those statements. So those are really doubtful at best at this time.

I spoke to him personally yesterday, and he said he didn't recall saying it. So, I mean, the investigation is ongoing. But that's -- that's from his, you know -- from what he's told me, he didn't recall saying any of that.

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SIMON: Reporter: well, the family maintains they didn't know anything about this plot.

Pamela -- one thing we should tell you though is that investigators again are conducting a very thorough investigation, and they're looking to follow the money. Was there, in fact, a deposit made into Syed Farook's account, did they receive any financing from any external sources.

Meantime, Pamela, one thing we should point out. In a very chilling twist, we know that county employees underwent active shooter training one year ago in the very building where that shooting took place. We don't know if Farook was part of that training, but it's another layer to this already complex story -- Pamela.

BROWN: It's certainly chilling. Dan Simon -- thank you very much.

And just ahead, Donald Trump wants a ban on all Muslims trying to enter the U.S. But is his plan just what ISIS wants to hear?

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[10:41:11] BROWN: Donald Trump warns that there will be more terror attacks in the U.S. if his ban on Muslim immigration is not put into place. The billionaire businessman is getting blasted with criticism from both sides of the aisle for his remarks, not to mention some of the roughly two million Muslims living in the U.S. But many of his supporters are still in.

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RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump is now saying Muslims should not be allowed to enter this country until the U.S. figures out what's going on. Do you agree with that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.

KAYE: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want them here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a very prudent idea. And I think that he's done due diligence when he makes that statement. We have to protect our American citizens first. And the vetting process in the whole program lacks integrity.

KAYE: Are you in favor of bombing terrorist homes? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. Absolutely. People will

continue to reproduce, and they will raise children in their beliefs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody just needs to go in there and take control of this. I just think it's going rampant, and I'm worried about America, worried about our safety. They're getting in. They need to be stopped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Robert Baer, a CNN intelligence and security analyst; and Dean Obeidallah is the host of "The Dean Obeidallah" show on Sirius XM and he's a Muslim.

Thank you so much for coming on. I'm really interested to hear from both of you. And Robert -- starting with you -- Trump is saying, as we have heard, that his solution will stop terror attacks by preventing Muslims from coming into the U.S. But is this playing into exactly what ISIS wants -- the fear?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Oh, certainly -- Pamela. They want to divide Muslims from non Muslims in this country. They want to isolate these people, get them to come fight for the Islamic state or attack Americans. What he's forgetting, of course, is that half of these adherents to this cult of death are not Muslims, at all. They're converts to the kind of Islam they advocate which is just insane.

So I mean, what do you do about them? We look at the San Bernardino attackers, and they were -- you know, he was an American citizen. He was born here. I mean he's -- you have to change the constitution -- it's just crazy.

BROWN: Yes. And not to mention, I mean terror attacks in the U.S. aren't just the work of jihadists. In fact, more -- you know, anti-government, white supremacy groups have been responsible for deaths of Americans since 9/11 than jihadists.

Dean -- to you, the Council on American Islamic Relations is one of the many Muslim groups condemning Trump's statements, calling them reckless and bigoted. Take a listen.

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NIHAD AWAD, FOUNDER, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN ISLAMIC RELATIONS: This is outrageous coming from someone who wants to assume the highest office in the land. It is reckless and simply un-American. Donald Trump sounds more like a leader of a lynch mob than a great nation like ours.

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BROWN: Dean -- do you agree?

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, RADIO HOST: I think that it's not just CAIR. The Anti-Division League (ph) has come out the same way using very strong language. It's a wake-up call I think for everyone in this country.

Donald Trump started this campaign by demonizing Latinos. He's defended beating up a black activist at one of his events. He's mocked a disabled reporter. And he's demonizing Muslims. I think we should pause and look at it. If a man like Donald Trump is sent into the White House by demonizing minorities, who knows what we have in store in this country for every community of color, every minority group.

And I hope it really is a wake-up call for all the good people because I've heard some great Republicans come out and denounce Donald Trump. And it's very heartening. So perhaps this is a moment where we can actually unite on some level in opposing bigotry.

BROWN: And Bob, we're not hearing this from other countries impacted by terrorism, such as France, which was most recently targeted in those terrorist attacks. So what do you think? Do you think that Trump's comments could, you know, impact the way that the rest of the world views the U.S.?

[10:45:08] BAER: Well, I mean I don't like the way the rest of the world is going. The far right French party has come out very strong in the regional elections. The Germans are the same way. There is a turn against refugees.

And, you know, I think we really have to understand what the Islamic state is, and that its adherence and who they are. It's -- it's a -- there's psychotics, frankly, and they have held on to a cult because they want to be part of anything. And there are different ways to deal with this in dividing western societies. And expelling these people or not letting them in is only going to make things worse. It will turn us into a hundred years war which we just -- you know, it's insane.

I think eventually at the end of the day Trump is going to be discredited and this whole idea is just going to go away. And someone is going to come to their senses and there is a way to fight the Islamic state but not Trump's way.

BROWN: And Dean, quickly, you wonder could this hurt Trump politically but also in business as well.

OBEIDALLAH: It could. I have an article in the "Daily Beast" today about how Trump doesn't like Muslims much but he loves Muslim money. He has great partners in Dubai, he calls great guys. He pals around with Muslims over there. He says great things to them about Muslims. Then he comes here and demonizes Muslims because it plays to the GOP base.

It's hypocrisy. It's alarming and I think it's a pause for all Americans who worry about our constitution and rights for all citizens to take a look at Donald Trump very seriously.

BROWN: But the bottom line, he is still the Republican frontrunner and he still has the backing of a lot of his supporters in the wake of these comments. Robert Baer, Dean Obeidallah -- thank you very much. Appreciate

it.

OBEIDALLAH: Thank you.

BROWN: And still to come, 35 years after John Lennon was shot, new insight into what happened that day, and why the shooter did what he did.

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[10:51:23] BROWN: Overproduction of oil coupled with less demand means great news for American drivers. AAA says gasoline hasn't been this cheap, averaging $2.03 a gallon since February 2009. That's because oil has been in a freefall ever since Saudi Arabia refused to cut back on production. Once more than $100 a barrel, it's now down below $38.

Well, it has been 35 years since John Lennon was gunned down in front of his New York City apartment. He was shot by Mark David Chapman. Who was Chapman and why did he do it?

Those questions are explored tonight in a CNN special report "KILLING JOHN LENNON".

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That morning when I left the hotel room, I knew what was going to happen on that day. I just knew it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before he left, he put a display in the hotel. And it had his passport. It had photographs from when he had worked at the YMCA. It had other mementos of his life.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A display that would make it easy to identify him as Lennon's killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was like his way of saying, look at me. I'm important.

PHILLIPS: Once the scene was set, Chapman left to stake out the Dakota again. He first saw Sean Lennon and his nanny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chapman came from behind her, reached around to shake Sean's hand, and then he commented to her, he's a beautiful little boy, isn't he?

PHILLIPS: While Sean was outside the Dakota, inside his father was getting ready for his last interview ever.

LAURIE KAYE: He was so real. He was so incredibly real. He wasn't a rock star.

PHILLIPS: Laurie Kaye produced the six-hour interview.

So you arrived at the Dakota, what was your first impression? L. KAYE: Where did he sit but right on the loveseat next to me.

So, you know, for the next couple of hours it's like, that's John Lennon. He's sitting next to me. And he's looking at me through his John Lennon glasses.

PHILLIPS: And then came the moment Kaye says she will never forget.

L. KAYE: When we were talking about him and Yoko and he says, I hope to god that I die before Yoko because I don't know what I would do if she left before I did. In other words, he couldn't continue without her. And --

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BROWN: And joining us now is CNN's Kyra Phillips. 35 years later, Kyra, and still so much emotion.

PHILLIPS: Yes, it was pretty incredible. I mean everyone with whom I interviewed, Pam, teared-up or cried during the interview. I mean the police officer that arrived at the scene and saw Lennon bleeding out, knowing the ambulance wasn't going to make it on time, threw him over his shoulder, put him in the back of a police car, hoping that he'd be able to get him to the hospital in time; to the doctor in the emergency room telling me how he had to tell Yoko Ono that her husband just died. He pronounced him dead. He got emotional.

And then you heard Laurie Kaye there who did the last interview. People were so invested in John Lennon and what he did and what he contributed to this world.

BROWN: And it's really chilling to hear Chapman's voice in your investigation, also unearthed some unbelievable firsthand material. Tell us about that.

PHILLIPS: Yes. It's pretty amazing. These audio tapes of Mark David Chapman in jail -- they're chilling. You won't want to miss hearing any of it in our documentary tonight.

[10:55:04] But we also were able to put our hands on Mark David Chapman's calendar and his journal. His calendar, as you can see -- look how chaotic it was. I mean the months before the murder, he was crossing things out. He didn't want people to see certain things he was writing.

And then he was talking about picking up paychecks and paying bills. And then you'll see in December there that that month is pretty much blank and that's the week that he killed John Lennon.

BROWN: It's unbelievable. He's planning all this and then also talking about needing to pay his bills.

Kyra Phillips -- unbelievable stuff. Look forward to watching that tonight. Thank you so much.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

BROWN: Tonight at 9:00 Eastern "CNN SPECIAL REPORT: KILLING JOHN LENNON".

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Pamela Brown.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts right after this break.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. John Berman has the morning off.